Bayonetta 3 is Overrated and Watered Down. Nintendo Switch Review

[@BknMoonStudios]

I think there's a lot of value in your reviews and opinions, Mark. Some people may call you contrarian and "old fashioned", but you are one of the few reviewers online who will always focus on gameplay over storytelling and playthrough length, which is becoming increasingly rare. I may not always agree with your opinions (specially on narrative games like RPGs and Visual Novels), but I feel I can always trust you when it comes to unbiased descriptions of gameplay. Be proud of the niche you've carved. You are doing something truly different.

[@lamegamertime]

My college-level game design teacher's analysis was that this game's combat is _"fast and frantic"_ (from their gameplay you could hear button mashing) with _"a mix of short, medium, and long range attacks"._ Am I cooked?

[@Supercomet13A]

My biggest issue with all the commentary around bayo 3 is that people missed that a LOT of the game design that people are criticising was initially added in bayo 2. Bayo 2 was the game that made witch time a goal mechanic, and not a means to learn the dodge offset mechanic as it was in 1. The causal "press button to win" was first done in 2. The ability to use items and have it not effect rating was first done in 2. Bayo 2 is a neutered bayonetta. Bayo 3 is an astral chain spinoff.

[@dreamxhollow]

I think the overall vision of the game was misguided, a fundamental misunderstanding of what makes a Bayonetta game great. The game became too ambitious. They tried to throw the kitchen sink at the player like DMC5 did but unlike DMC5, it's not engaging or even interesting. I agree with you: they streamlined it. Probably due to Nintendo. It feels like there was a lot of cut content too. If the future of the series is what they did here, I'll be very disappointed.

[@TheElectricUnderground]

Absolutely dreamhollow!

[@abbeylite]

I'm a huge Bayonetta fan but this game, god... it's so boring and soulless. I'm glad to see people like you actually adressing its flaws 'cause the game has A LOT of them and the casual players just seem to ignore them all :/ This franchise peaked with Bayonetta 2, I don't even know what this is, it doesn't even seem to be related to past events and lacks objective...

[@TheElectricUnderground]

Exactly cheria and this is a common trend in the comments ha. The long time players and fans are saying ok this game has issues and the casuals are yelling at me and saying I need to grow up ha

[@Mrclavet]

Same for me. I’m a huuuge bayo fan but can’t stand this game. I just stopped and put my trinity edition on sale. For me Bayonetta ended at the second game.

[@TheOnlyMeChanneI]

@@Mrclavet whoa don’t get too comfortable …bayonetta 2 is shit as well

[@hectord3013]

Ugh the hate here is absurd

[@sandersGG]

What do you mean they added more mechanics and the Spectacle of the battles cutscene wise and gameplay wise have gotten even Grander which is the essence of bayonetta my guy did you even play the game Edit: if you payed attention the first game established multiple different timelines do exist so you saying the game doesn’t relate is not true

[@Tien1million]

Bayonetta was not a casual game, it didn't sell well, and it was a niche game. I think they want to get a mass appeal for the franchise so they watered everything down in 3, which was what I was afraid of. You mentioned Godhand and Ninja Gaiden, damn I miss those games. When can we get more of those?!

[@simlife445]

idk the same why money works EVER with your own comment not a casual game the wiiu and switch are ugly af even if it was 4k with this low textures this is a joke the 2013 ps4 is 40-50% more powerful then the newest 2023 switch for same cost lit x box with THE SAME COST is about 12 times more powerful 60 fps witcher 3 vs 25 average and 50% less ppi.. tell me your poor and stupid without telling me your poor and stupid (is that a thing still? a game not for the masses is a game not using setting or other stuff to make money probaly why p games was sold...

[@jerm5466]

You’re constantly mis characterizing things in this review Bayo 3 got a ton of criticism even after release, especially compared to the prior two. I’m not sure what bubble you’re in but it’s been the most mixed in reception of the series by far. To say the level design in 1 is bad because you rarely fight is just disingenuous. There’s a bit more space between fights than in something like a DMC5 but it’s still not very much. It serves as a small break from the frantic combat and nothing more.

[@maxg2335]

I don't know if this is just me but the platforming sections are driving me crazy. Specifically the ones where you have to collect 5 items in a short span of time. Bayo is so floaty and she always jumps way further than I expect. I'm spending more time on platforming than the rest of the game. That, and Viola's parry seems to have the most awkward timing. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't and I don't think I did anything differently.

[@TheElectricUnderground]

yeah I agree for sure max. If they really insist that players must platform, at least make the platforming sections good ha.

[@thelastgogeta]

Bayo 3 platforming has weird air control despite four jumps (2 contextual ones - wall and ledge), stops you for like 10 seconds to announce 5 collectibles and almost no way to redirect yourself in a comfortable way without lock on to an enemy. I'm not looking forward to the Umbran Tears in this game. It was bad enough that I initially didn't think I could get them till mid game with Viola and environments are big enough that it is easy to miss them rather than them being in a corner. I think the Parry/Witch Time will need people to dig up whats going on but maybe it is related to the game's strange frame time even if I don't think console Bayo has ran at 60 flat besides modern (non-Ninty) hardware.

[@hectord3013]

2 "bad" aspects of the game, that makes it bad?

[@umbranelegance9034]

@@hectord3013 well I think it comes to down to more than just two aspects. For one, a big singular issue that effects everything else pretty much is the momentum whenever you're in the air. As soon as you jump, your momentum just straight up dies. They force the player to rely on Masquerade or technical inputs mostly to platform by holding the jump button or using traversal methods integrated into forms. This is also kind of clunkily implemented with Viola to an extent bc she has momentum (sort of) but it's hard to gauge how far she will go as it depends on how long you hold the button and her parry button is also used to dash which makes her less than intuitive. But the fundamental building blocks of an action hack n slash, arcade fighter, or even platformer is MOMENTUM. SO it's really a BIGGER issue and there's a whole bunch of smaller issues that culminate with that and its why alot of people are having issues with it. It's not a simple issue bogged down by two 'bad aspects'. It's a matter of design quality and these games have been saturating themselves to be casual af ever since the 2nd game. It just sucks that we can't even get a decent jump in a game all about fighting filled with platforming puzzles. Game seems more like a mixed bag the more you dissect the inner workings of its design flaws. I mean this all just about momentum. There's also the camera and that's a whole other issue that ALSO effects everything. I mean I really wish they would think before implementing new playstyles into the sequels. If they had just focused on combat alone instead of all these unnecessary riding sections then it might have actually felt even better to play and Demon Slave wouldn't have to be shoved into every big area that wasn't a tight nit space in a building. Plus Viola is just not a great character to play as when fighting some of these giant enemies. It's just not fun to Pure Plat with her in the slightest. Really shows the lack of care put into her and her homogenized toolkit. She's seems like she's only in the game to give Luka relevance and I hate a playable, pointless plot device more than a crappy bulky clunky riding section 🙄

[@hectord3013]

@@umbranelegance9034 cope harder God dmit you're the bigger hater and liyer that a even seen before

[@cereal2373]

I thought I was going crazy when looking for genuine Bayonetta 3 reviews recently, lol. All points mentioned in this vid I agree with so much btw. It really does feel like Bayonetta 3 was reformed to now specifically cater to casuals, game journalists and the mainstream gaming audience to rack up sales as much as possible. It lost so much of its flair due to the absence of its original core combat gameplay, which is so sad considering just how unique and fun the initial game was.

[@TheElectricUnderground]

yeah no kidding, it's absurd how gushing all the reviews for this game were. They don't even make sense if you think about the scores. Would anyone in their right mind say this game is as good as Elden Ring? And yet they both are 10/10? how does that even make sense ha. Do great games like Elden Ring now need to be 11/10 lol

[@amuroray9115]

@@TheElectricUnderground maybe it’s because reviews aren’t the same? Lol. Many think Elden Ring sucks. That’s their opinion. And?

[@ozy667]

its not just bayonetta that has the spectacle, qte and mini game problems, its every platinum game. its astral chain, its wonder101, even nier automata, they NEVER focus on the one thing they do right.

[@fixedcamera1000]

FOR REAL

[@B.Love88]

Thank you! This is a key symptom of platinum games! I have recently been playing through their games and noticed this!

[@kirkcavenaugh758]

Astral chain was such an odd and messy game with potential to be one of the best of all time.

[@jemandjemand2362]

ignorance is bliss indeed. and thats why people say bayonetta 3 is amazing. its awful, its dry, its boring, it came from developers hell... where it belongs

[@konstantdrachenfels5446]

I think the bigger problem is that literally anyone can be a video game "journalist" nowadays.

[@TheElectricUnderground]

No kidding. Polygon's review doesn't even bother to talk about the gameplay at all ha. They re like blogs more than critics

[@miltiadiskoutsokeras9189]

@@TheElectricUnderground correct: they are promoters and advertisers like they always gave been. In 90s they just had the freedom to slack inferior companies on the grounds of less promotion money. Rise of the Robots was scored 92% in some magazines. You want the truth about a game? Ask someone who loves games but pays for them.

[@dez87]

@@miltiadiskoutsokeras9189 as someone that payed this game as my favorite combat system ever

[@miltiadiskoutsokeras9189]

@@dez87 Good to know, but nobody knows you. You are a random guy on the net with a nickname. So I may respect your opinion, I do not have any clue if it holds any truth. I will probably get it to decide on my own. Enjoyed the previous 2.

[@dez87]

@@miltiadiskoutsokeras9189 you just said "someone who loves the games and pays for them" lol

[@ROT695]

I’m in the middle of playing it now. In fact I’ve played all the games in like nearly two weeks. My only issue coming into the third game is that battles don’t seem as exciting as they did in the previous games. The thing I loved about the other two is how crazy the levels could get and how it was just Bayonetta going up against these crazy bosses. The third game though makes it so she relies too much on her demons which doesn’t give me the same excited feeling and makes her seem a little weaker. Plus I feel the way the torture attacks was done before was way more exciting than now. Before you’d have to build up your magic by doing combos and dodging in time but now to get one you just have to use your demon to trigger one which isn’t as rewarding. It also doesn’t help that the animations for them are stripped down to the bare minimum now

[@TheElectricUnderground]

Yeah I think a lot of people are going to end up feeling this way Rezigo

[@xenokos1602]

You can use demons and bayonetta at the same time. That's how your supposed to use them

[@minecraftotalwar]

it's not, you just gotta learn how to use the wink slave mechanic, which is basically a powered up wicked weave, then you will be able to play it mostly like the first bayo

[@samueldeandrade8535]

​@@xenokos1602 "You can use demons and bayonetta at the same time" No one cares. Playing only as Bayonetta should be enough. Adding stupid demons was unnecessary.

[@slimynaut]

You make the best reviews, almost nobody else even talks about gameplay in any meaningful way in games. Isnt that crazy.

[@oneupdawg]

Platinum Games has had varying degrees of success over these past years. I wouldnt be surprised if this one misses the mark a bit, Bayonetta 1 and 2 were pretty good. My faves from them is still Vanquish and Wonderful 101.

[@TheElectricUnderground]

yeah platinum seemed to have fallen down the action rpg wormhole and now they can't get out ha.

[@Seesaw_FW]

I will admit, once I’ve memorized the ship formations, Sol Cresta at higher difficulties is pretty satisfying. I still think the visuals are flawed, but I’m having a lot more fun with it the more familiar I am. Still think levels should be shorter and the price should drop, lol.

[@dez87]

2 is the worst gameplay wise and 3 is the best

[@johnnyscifi]

Ahem... NieR: Automata

[@kagemara277]

I also love Vanquish and cant believe they havent ported it to Switch yet!

[@sidar87]

Replaying Bayonetta 1 again. The feel is so much more on point. Gib me more Angels and Demons. I don't know what they were thinking with microsoft sigurd being more powerful than any previous bosses. Also the dumb collect the broken pieces was so out of place.

[@TheElectricUnderground]

Absolutely disar! Bayo one feels so on point in comparison to 3

[@dez87]

Cope

[@vagabond8385]

I have been playing Bayo 1 for almost ten years. Truly an amazing game. So focused so unique, so stylish and beautifully directed. Bayo 2 had improved combat and ok story. Lacked a bit of character though. Bayo 3 is just, I don't know how to describe it. It feels like fan fiction. It's too much of everything at once.

[@jackalx2154]

I just wanted more Bayonetta. Instead I got more Astral Chain and some Devil May Cry reject.

[@dez87]

This IS bayonetta best combat

[@xenokos1602]

Cope

[@dez87]

Plays nothing like astral chain. I swear casuals and there terrible opinions

[@saaaaaaaaadasda]

@@xenokos1602 This what Bayo 3 fanboys do, don't they?

[@saaaaaaaaadasda]

@@dez87 Agree and you one of them.

[@MaverickHunter17]

I actually think Demon Slave is a pretty cool mechanic and it gets more in-depth the more you advance through the game, lots of combo possibilities with your standard kit and weapons as well, I believe you might've dismissed it a bit too fast based on being a comically flashy mechanic

[@huymaivan8671]

I agree with you on this, he play with the normal difficulty and still in early game and already complain about spam "Jump Punch" can solve any problem, too quick to jump in conclusion! Especially he didn't consider the combat problem in Bayonetta 2 where enemy break out of your combo for every 2 second no matter what happen unless it's witch time, and still consider Bayo2 have better combat than Bayo3

[@cancer4cure483]

The point he made is not that this mechanic is bad, he said that hack'n'slash game is about clash of hitboxes between you and enemy. This range style combat diminishes risk/reward factor of a close combat.

[@raeldrews1187]

@@cancer4cure483 v from dmc 5

[@cancer4cure483]

@@raeldrews1187 sucks.

[@raeldrews1187]

@@cancer4cure483 honestly i find him fun to play it gets old fast but it is prety cool

[@alexpark472]

Bayonetta has been my favourite game since 2010 and I pretty much agree. The whole story mode feels like a chore to get to end game and then there is no other modes or anything else to do and I really don't feel like playing the story again. The combat feels way to uncomfortable and like you are constantly chasing the enemies (even worse than Bayo 2) and unless you use your summons frequently you get a huge time penalty. Even an online co-op would have been appreciated (I don't see why games in 2022 can't even have a basic online mode) but I don't know if they are planning to add anything later but for now I just don't care for it anymore and I have played Bayonetta 1 and 2 more than all my other games combined.

[@TheElectricUnderground]

Exactly Alex the entire game from the hyper armor to the enemies running away to the wierd launch angles all heavily push the player to use the summon. Summon is the name of the game and that mechanic ends up undercutting the core gameplay a lot. I think right now the hype train is rolling but in a month or so the seams are going to show more and it will be like mgs4 all over again. An ok entry into the series for the players but is like 10/10 perfect from the critics.

[@penguinjay]

honestly dude, I just think most people are casual players so that is who gets catered to, they play on the lowest difficulty and sludge through it for a little while, they enjoy the pretty graphics and presentation and love it profusely...for a few months. They sing the game's praises, then they discard it and mostly forget about it until the remake. Most players don't even beat the game these days. So all these decisions come down to mass-marketing the game to as many people as will purchase it, and less about the tight mechanics and it being a good game with shelf life or depth. Just my 2 cents. They care about the marketability of the game more than the gameplay itself, bc they are basically *selling a movie* to most purchasers who won't even go on to finish the experience. Sometimes I'm proven wrong though and that's nice.

[@_Paul_N]

This game turned out to be junk after how great Bayonetta 1 and 2 were. They completely ruined the franchise. Viola is insufferable and her combat stinks. Her parrying mechanic is also abysmal. She screams from the mountain tops about how strong and badazz she is, but she’s a cringe gen-z Tik Tok kid. Thank god Platinum games didn’t give her “pronouns.” They dumbed everything down so you’re forced to use demons in EVERY fight or you’re going to get bronze. You can perfectly dodge and go hit less in every fight, but your demon summon wasn’t apart of your combos so your score and medals are crap. You can’t mix and match weapons on her legs and feet like in Bayo 2 which was sick. The game strips that from you. Every enemy is damn near the same. Bayo 1 & 2 had repeat enemies, but there was variety….I’m just really upset lol.

[@TheElectricUnderground]

Yeah bayo 1 is just so much better, 3 feels like a big step back

[@yone5499]

It’s fun to go back to this video and see a lot of comments praising the game when it’s already gone and forgotten. I wonder how many people here who vehemently defended the game even care about it anymore.

[@albertotexinsilvamartinez3307]

I just bought a Switch and i'm going the replay it

[@jerm5466]

I’ve been defending it since release and still play it. It’s a great combat system

[@DOGEELLL]

Its still bayo yes its much worse than the first 2 games but its way better than what square enix and whatever the fuck other companies do these days Especially sony with their movies sim

[@xFlavusx]

Bayonetta 3 is so boring to play. And sidescrolling segments are atrocious. I wish I'd replay 1 and 2 instead of it.

[@bodine1231]

My biggest gripe is that there are way to many giant fights and on rail sections. I just wanted a whole level of regular ass enemies to fight and combo on. I couldnt get a handle on any of the weapons because it would just bounce between gimick fights.

[@minecraftotalwar]

use the trainning room then. Also, you can replay the verses alone, just choose the verses that don't have onrail sections

[@TheElectricUnderground]

Exactly bodine. The reason why the game is so stuffed with gaint fights, rather than smaller or even mid sized enemies is because platinum really really want to emphasize the summon system. Because the summons are big, do a massive amount of damage, and can actually hitstun these giant enemies. So what the game really wants you to do is hit them to gain meter, witch time their hyperarmored attacks, and then summon. That's the game plan and it works at the highest level of the game. Check out the video in the pinned comment, the guy is just doing witch time dodges and summons and is getting fast speedrun times and perfect platinum on time and score ha. The game really emphasizes this style of play.

[@minecraftotalwar]

@@TheElectricUnderground I’m sorry man, it’s not. I guess you have thought about that for a long time to come with that idea, but it’s just simply not true, you just don’t know how to play the game, I’m sorry

[@umbranelegance9034]

@@minecraftotalwar Did we even play the same game? I mean really. Just because there are a handful of fights where you can't summon doesn't mean it isn't emphasized up the ass to a ridiculous degree or combat isnt replaced with gimmicky, slow, awkward playstyles that shouldn't be in an action genre title. The degree to which summoning is shoved into your face is absurd. There's challenges based around it, bewitchments tied to it, the games time requirements are awfully 'balanced' around it, to the point that if you try to not to use them, you get shit on SO HARD by the ranking system. It's utter garbage design and stifling as hell. It's really REALLY apparent when you have to play as Viola WITHOUT Cheshire. There's a reason she only has a handful of chapters. It's not a good sequel.

[@platinumtoofaim]

Hey Mark, unsure if you’ll see this, as this video is a couple months old but thanks for this. I was a huge bayo 1 fan, and am a big character action player. I felt like I was going crazy with all the great reviews this game got. I’m 3 hours in and was immediately noting how much I’m not having fun, and how little actual fighting there is. Reviews that don’t focus on actual gameplay experience are unacceptable to me, and I’m glad you pointed that out.

[@TheElectricUnderground]

Hey my friend! Luckily I did see this comment (KZbin will show me comments on older vids every now and then). I m very glad to be one of the few people who are looking at the game in terms of combat design rather than just talking about the lore and set pieces :-)

[@soc3836]

I feel like based on the footage shown, some of the reason you might consider the combat long-range or unengaging is because the footage shows a very safe and reliable strategy that protects your health pool, but looks very slow. I also hated V in DMC5, but I don't think that's what this is. Similar to my feelings about Beyo 1, this is not a hard game, but there is a lot of room for skill expression while maintaining a medium skill floor. Thus casuals can enjoy it while more seasoned character action game fans can sink their teeth into the full complexity of its systems. I think that's the secret to its mass appeal more than the spectacle. Most people will be able to play it, but also have room to grow. So that slave summons enable passive gameplay I think is more intended as being the easy path for more casual players who will not try to platinum each stage whereas more serious players are intended to only use that to supplement their up-close attacks.

[@saaaaaaaaadasda]

Nope, Demons Slave is requireded to have best ranks and defeating some enemies.

[@PedroFerreira-sx2gd]

The more importante thing for me it is that puzzles and exploration are useless in this kind of games, and many companyes don t understand that They are all about non stop pumping action. Also hate grinding. Unfortunaly i don t have a good machine to play this game and i can t review it

[@KrieGor27]

Bayonetta 3's level design makes me think I'm playing Jak & Daxter at time. But I guess it was inevitable. There's much to say about 3D beat'em up history, but the genre started as very arcadey, then got interwinded with action-adventure because of Capcom and Onimusha/Devil May Cry success (which at first were both thought as new Resident Evil titles). Then they understood it was really hurting the pacing of their games plus it was difficult to add exploration, puzzles, platforming sections and make them easy enough so as to not prevent the progression of hardcore beat'em up players, so they went back from that. When they got tired of being criticized for linear level design full of nothing but combats, they went the Onimusha route again... And it's logical in a sense. The press play their games in loooong sitting sessions, they need those titles to make the breaks for them. Fast dense combats are exhausting. Anyway, I play the Bayonettas for their "Lost Chapter". The rest is just a very diluted warm-up for me. I've only poured about 6 hours into Bayonetta 3 but, so far, and while I don't think it's on the same level as the first one, it seems much better than 2. Demon Slave, while not perfect, is much better than Umbran Climax. You can just quickly incorporate it into your standard combos or use it as big punishes, it's not as omnipresent and braindead as UC. The Witch Time is no longer the only way to get proper combos! Yay! No more repulsive armor bullshit! And so far, it doesn't seem mandatory for hitting certain enemies. I still have some hope the infinite climax difficulty will remove it just like in Bayo 1. However, it seems like there's still no item penalties or so I've heard. So I don't see why they even incorporate an online ranking. Everyone will just farm invincible and attack enhancing lollipops. Enemies with super armor are way more numerous than in the first one. It's much more like 2 in that regards. Some weapons are too basic and effective just like in 2. And removing separate weapons for hands and feets is such a bummer. For now, I have to reserve my judgment. It could turn out okay, as long as the Lost Chapter is fun, intense, challenging, and the way your moves are balanced is not completely messed up.

[@TheElectricUnderground]

Exactly krie it does feel like Jak and daxter or banjo kazoo or something. Yeah I focus on comparing it to bayo 1 because bayo 1 is the best of the series. If the reviews were more accurate rather than declaring it 10/10 perfect than the comparison to bayo 2 would be interesting to hash through. Also the hyper armor point is a big one for me. Hyper armor has become the bane of action game design and really is much more of an rpg element I think. It is imposes built in turns just like an rpg. We are one step away from adding a stamina bar to bayo ha

[@MikeTheGamer77]

"But I guess it was inevitable". Why? Why was it inevitable?

[@KrieGor27]

@@MikeTheGamer77 Because of what I'm saying right after that. Linear level design and concentrated fights in 3D action games often lead to bad critics. And you need good critics to sale.

[@minecraftotalwar]

@@TheElectricUnderground you just don't know how to play the game, mate. There is as much hyper armor as the first game if you actually use the mechanics of the game. Try using wink slave for once, you will understand what I'm talking about

[@huymaivan8671]

​@@minecraftotalwar After making this video, his opinion is already set in stone, so he wont bother to try other mechanic of the game which can break his reviews. I bet he dont even bother to finish the game either 🤣

[@SkinnyLegend78]

As a long running Bayonetta fan who has played all 3 games now, I can defo say that the 3rd game is so much more different compared to bayo 1. I really dislike the dependence and almost reliance on demon slave as it gets boring after a while but then I realise I have to do it otherwise I won’t be able to kill certain enemies 😭

[@NIHIL_EGO]

I like to alternate between the two of them.

[@crownlessking101]

The game has hitstun and combos you can even juggle the enemies you can do so much more in this game than before lol. You clearly didn't understand the game mechanics. All the things you wanted are in the game.

[@jaguar4120]

Exactly. 😂

[@michielkroder4031]

For me, I can't yet call it a masterpiece or a bomb, that's just hot takes or the unfortunate effect of journalists having to deliver a review by deadline within a game's release window. But in today's gaming climate, Bayonetta 3 is almost like a breath of fresh air to me, with its release timed just right. I started playing this on release day and had to pull myself away at 4 in the morning and I NEVER do that anymore, so that's telling. I do recognize what you're saying, Mark, with the deemphasis of close quarter combat and physical interaction of hitboxes, but I personally don't mind that as someone who also loves to play keepaway or zoning characters in 2D fighters, shutting opponent's options down and preventing them from getting in. So I find games like Astral Chain and Bayo 3's Demon Slave system more than a bit fascinating. I think this third instalment breaks away quite radically from the first 2 in terms of mechanics, but I also see that there is a lot that's replacing it. Where I'll fall in the end on how succesful it all is or how it will come together, I'll reserve judgement on, but I'm also taking the fact that I'm really enjoying this first playthrough much more than a lot of other 3D polygonal games of recent memory into account, as that's also worth something.

[@TheElectricUnderground]

Yeah exactly there is no incentive to try to be level headed with a game review these days. Your either ignored or yelled at ha. In the case of bayo s design I think your comparison to astral change is accurate and also the problem for me. Astral chain is an action rpg, bayo 3 is supposed to be character action and combat focused. But now the line between the two is very blurred and I don't like platinums style of combat anymore ha. It s pushing further and further away from the core fundimentals and further and into system management and rpg style tactics

[@brady9592]

Something I think that’s worth mentioning, aside from any direct opinion on Bayo 3, is the time pressure on games critics. It’s difficult to disentangle their relatively surface level engagement with the games they review from the time crunch of barely getting any time with a game, having to get the review out on tight deadlines, and then immediately move on to the next one. In other words, I think the profit structure of game journalism (and right there next to - internet algorithms) are a bigger issue than the people themselves. Just wanted to add that aspect to the conversation.

[@xdearlifex]

Having known this since I was a teenager watching zero punctuation it's very frustrating hearing people bitch so hard about game journos. Your problem is capitalism, my friend, not walking sims. People often use game journos as proxies for hating casual audiences. They want to feel like they arent elitist assholes while shitting on people who just want to have fun with games, but lack the critical thinking skills to straddle that line like ratatoskr does.

[@tbc1880]

​@@xdearlifexwell tbh only reason the journalists have to rush is because people trust their rushed reviews. And those people are casuals. If you aren't casual you don't trust them and instead listen to a few people who are deep into the genre and take their time with a non shill review. Problem imo isn't capitolism its people's (casuals) standards being low. If people had higher standards reivew companies would demand more time to give a solid honest revi- lol yeah no. Cause most of them aren't honest because they want more review copies. But once again, casuals trust a heavily biased reviewer... who is rushed and can't possibly give a good one with the time they got. So yeah I blame the casuals and I dislike the game journalists for how they operate but the journalists only exist due to the casuals.

[@zeroXshinobi]

After dmcv I knew it was going to be impossible for platinum games to be on the same level as capcoms masterpiece.

[@TheElectricUnderground]

Yeah they just don't have the talent dev wise as they used to

[@epicadventureturtle1363]

Feel like 90% of the game I'm play banjo kazooie (pick stuff up, find secrets etc) and the other 10% are cutscenes. Like when do I get to fight enemies?

[@dez87]

You fight enemies most of the game

[@richterdelgan123]

10:19 YS games are character action games moran than a action rpg?

[@beetheimmortal]

Interesting that you mention Bayo 1's bad level design. For years I couldn't quite put my finger on why I always get bored of Bayo, but now that you mention it, there really are a lot of parts where nothing happens, and it's just so fucking boring. And now that I think about it, this is the exact problem I have with Nightshade too, where it just has these separate arenas with some boring bullshit inbetween. Ninja Gaiden and even MGS Rising Revengeance really do this much better.

[@chumahe4861]

Bayo 3 is a lousy and horrible game, from the way it is organised, timed wasted, the human resources wasted , the director are stupid to both design and develop the game. We wait 8 years from Bayo2 and Bayo 1 (bayo2 is the best game of all three). If bayo 3 is the strongest why she can only summon 2 hell monsters (the design of Madama Butterfly is horribly old), secondly she can't meet Aesir because Bayo 2 and 1 have dealt and she's in a timeline her father died because of Bayo 1 ( Aesir was defeated by Bayo2 ) She just grew up unsealed without facing any challenges not to mention Sigurd being a freak and why is stronger than Aesir? And where is Loki? Where are the angels from Paradiso ? And Rodin just watched and didn't help? Jeane died in a costume designed can’t be more hideous after Bayo 1 was a princess Umbran, Bayo 2 was a girl who summoned Gamora to chew on Loptr's corpse and then died by a lightsaber? The character's personality in the game is severely lacking and blank by a stupid Naruto script (wtf is Viola ,she just a child of an unknown Bayo and then she become the next Bayo4? ), despite we are in 2022 but the game development are trash and terrible graphics and lag, the character's face design is ugly and pale, compared to DMC5 it loses in all aspects, the plot and psychology are lacking and Bayonetta is also famous for its own uniqueness that is not just stuffing in and following popular things like the Multiverse or the Godzilla version that pulls her heart more than a dozen times just to summon. To sum up, I would like to put this Game in the trash and burn it, wasting time and money and showing the downfall as well as the superficiality of money greed of the Head of Platinum company. Bayo 4 don't come out because surely if Hideki continues to make the game, it will be trash like Baybilon Fall, looking at Elden Ring and DMC5, Bayo 3 is a pile of trash😊

[@saikorofunk6498]

I think this commentary on the game is lazy. Bayo 3 is getting good reviews but you’re acting like all the reviewers are giving this a 10/10 like elden ring - which isn’t true. Saying the level design is ‘western’ and not ‘Japanese’ seems way too binary - and therefore an assumption. Japanese level design isn’t just about how it services arcade-y combat. And then you use tomb raider as an example? Those are totally different games. FFVII remake? Have you even played that game? Seems like a false equivalency to me. Even if you’re using it as an example, it’s forced at best. Metal Gear Revengeance feels more rpg than Bayo 3 to me with the pausing of menus and forced stealth in that one section. Why aren’t you breaking down the game like you usually do? The reason the levels are designed this way in Bayo 3 is because of the different traversal methods based on the weapon you use. You can’t have interesting traversal in tight levels so they opened the map more. It’s a different approach to the design based on the added mechanic. the summons are probably a test run for their upcoming game - project gg. You can criticize the level design for what it is, but not Japanese? Come on man. I get what you mean, but why do you make this criticism from such an opinionated stance than using objective criticism. I don’t think you even tried to finish the game or even got halfway through either. Probably not even a quarter. That’s kinda cringe that you’re commenting on it then. First off Bayo is not as popular as you’re making it out to be. The reason why it’s popular is very simple. No need to think too hard on it. It’s called being on super smash brothers. Don’t get why that was tough. You didn’t really go that in-depth in the gameplay analysis either. The summons aren’t even necessary for the most part. Thought you were better than this.

[@bass2126]

The level design is absolutely one of my favorite aspects of the series, they constantly experiment with the gameplay with puzzles & level design that are related to Bayo's combat abilities, same goes for the secret missions, they can give you ideas for how to experiment with the combat at times & it emphasizes Angel Slayer as the proper ground for testing your combat abilities. If you're just gonna make levels basic arenas then it's just gonna be uninteresting. Also Bayo 3 being nintendo-fied doesn't hold any ground considering Bayo 2 was published by Nintendo & kept the style & presentation of the original. I guess with 3 Platinum didn't just wanna repeat what 1 & 2 did & just wanted a fresh new look for the series, & tbh Bayo 1 is already perfect you can't really add on top of it.

[@andrewgrime8389]

What a shallow review. You don't say anything of substance throughout the video and then cry about the game not being (what you consider the greatest character action game) Ninja Gaiden 2. It's a non-review, a non-argument. Why are whining about setpieces in a Bayonetta game when they were there from the beginning, back when the first game was released? Why didn't you go more in-depth into analyzing combat systems that are in the game? You literally overgeneralized the entire game and then brought up game reviews and cried that the game got almost universal praise. Can you tell me what happens in the game from start to finish? Did you even finish the game? Do you understand that people can enjoy things for different reasons? Why does ChArAcTeR AcTiOn GaMeS have to be this one specific thing? You want to reduce these games to, "Functions -The Game" where nothing matters, you play as whoever and just get swarmed by hordes of enemies while enjoying the "mechanical complexities" of a game. These games can tell interesting stories, have interesting characters, and be an overall great experience. That's what the best games in the genre do - DMC3, DMC5, GoW2, GoW3, MGR, Nier: Automata, etc. If Dante wasn't Dante, Bayonetta wasn't Bayonetta, Kratos wasn't Kratos, etc. no one would give a fuck about these games. Not liking something doesn't mean it's bad.

[@TheElectricUnderground]

Andrew I say many things of substance in this review. Calm down my friend. Your entire post here is basically just saying why don't I, as a reviewer, accept whatever the game does and understand that if the game does something at the start, that makes it a smart choice ha. What do you think review and critique is Andrew? Yes I understand that the set pieces have been there from the start, I say that in the vid ha. That doesn't make them a good idea. The first super Mario bros has sliding interia on the movement, does that mean every other game in the series should have kept it. You need to get past this idea that the function of a review is just to explain how awesome a game is to help the dev sell copies. I know that's how it works on KZbin but there s no need to get so fired up at some feedback.

[@huymaivan8671]

The pin point of the problem here is that he "ony make a quick play for early stage" and the write a review for the whole game, that explain his lacking of in-depth analysis for combat mechanic in this game.

[@sudarshangopinathan5904]

This guy cries about all games that aren't exactly like how he wants them. It's pathetic.

[@jepajei]

I played Ninja Gaiden 2 and I find it a major flaw that you can literally just run past everything. I actually got bored with the game at some point because even more so than in bayonettas, the combat was completely abusable by using the charge technique that i forgot the name of > it kills enemies > do it again, and if I remember correctly that was also how you get good ranks. So after a while I thought "why am I even doing this?" and just ran entire levels into the next boss fight, basically. How can you defend that as "good level design"? I'm genuinely curious. I'll take locked arenas with clear enemy amount and battle ratings any day (and the game somewhat correctly acknowledging that you did well by medals). Also at 5:32 bayonetta 2 did that as well and you could skip those by just mashing A which skips the entire lines. Haven't tried if you can do that in bayo 3 as well but i would assume so. (Also in case you didn't know you can quick-skip cutscenes by pressing - & ZR at the same time). Another very weird take in this video is that that bayonetta would be a franchise for journalists and casuals in general... I don't understand your point of view at all. The campaign is cinematic and whatever, but there's TONS of just pure combat content for those who want that post-game from the side missions and their NSIC versions to witch trials. The weapons have just as much or even more mechanical depth than before and have insane variety.

[@TheElectricUnderground]

I agree that the UT spam and the ability to run past a lot of enemies in NG2 are the game's biggest flaws. No doubt about that. NG2 does have some walled areas where you need to fight to proceed, but there definitely need to be more to force the player to engage. Funny enough Razer's edge cut down on the UT spam and no one cared or gave the game credit for that, which I think is a shame. That being said there are a ton of action games that have this issue of running past that I would still say have strong level design, Resident Evil 4 for example. I would say it's an oversite more than an issue with core design. The problem with Bayo's method of doing combat and level design is that you are essentially playing two completely disconnected modes, overworld mode and combat mode, like an rpg. And since every encounter is completely fixed and static, you lose the dynamics of enemy placement and level design. Think of it like this, if you remove the platforming and walking around elements of bayo, what you would have is devil palace essentially. Fixed combat encounters that you would transistion through but would not connect with one another. If you remove the traversal element of NG2's level design, the game would lose some brief sections but most of the game would remain in tact, that's because the levels and enemy placements are intigrated. So if you were to come in and fix these issues in Bayo vs NG2, in NG2 you could literally just place in some lock off invisible walls every so often to stop the run through strat. Whereas with Bayo you would have to heavily compress and redesign the levels. The campaign would shrink down to a very short experience ha. I would prefer that the bayo campaign be shrunk down and the traversal elements removed, but that would also show there needs to be more meat in terms of combat encounters.

[@jepajei]

@@TheElectricUnderground I appreciate the answer. "And since every encounter is completely fixed and static, you lose the dynamics of enemy placement and level design. " Dynamics of level design and enemy placement have never been a big focus of bayonetta games. It's just how the combat fundamentally works that doesn't really work well with platforms and other gimmicks. Like you said if you removed the transitions from one encounter to another it would be just bloody palace, but imo that's okay. While mechanically it wouldn't make much of a difference, the fact that these walking transitions still exist definitely still affects how the game feels/flows. In general I know it's different for Ninja Gaiden and that's fine. Also honestly I feel like you just don't seem to properly understand the combat system of Bayonetta 3 even, while calling it casual or "RPG-like" and whatnot based on the clips you're showing here and based on the way you talk about it. You don't just stand while you do your summons, you're still supposed to be attacking yourself all the time and dialing the summon attacks WHILE you're doing your own combos; if anything, this opens up the possibility of juggling big enemies (that wouldn't otherwise be juggleable at all in bayonetta 1 or other action games) by another puppet character (the demon) while doing your own damage on top of that. It's difficult, you really need to do some serious multi-tasking, but the way you speak about the game and the clips you're showing here really shows that you basically don't even understand the system. I don't mean to sound condescending but this entire rant of yours sounds completely misguided, like you say the game has shifted from "up close and personal" to "ranged combat" and that factually just isn't true AT ALL... or well it can be true if you're using the mechanics ineffectively like a surface level casual. Honestly, I have my doubts about you being a "hardcore character action fan" because it seems to me you might be the opposite :>

[@ahmajambe3879]

You're way too hard on the franchise. The games are consistently good even if they can have some flaws. Bayonetta 1 is no exception, the game is incredibly brutal and the QTE sections are obnoxious. Bayo 1 is very much unrefined in many aspects.

[@TheElectricUnderground]

I agree and mention this in the vid AhMa, I by no means think bayo 1 is perfect, just better than bayo 3. As far as being too hard on the series, that's a bit of a complicated question because there is no doubt that I am more critical across the board than most other reviewers, like all the time ha. It's just that I mostly cover more arcade focused games and the arcade game fans are not as sensitive as Bayonetta fans, clearly. That being said, don't you think it's sort of pathetic how most reviewers just seek validation online and are too afraid to post any sort of critique that might get blowback? This video, outside the hype train of bayo 3, is not even a negative review, it's a neutral evaluation at the end of it's not bad, but it's not great. And yet people in the comments are losing their minds lol.

[@dunkelwelpling]

Interesting Review. I don't agree with the first critique point, since i'm a guy who likes variety and non-stop fighting or shooting can get a bit monotone for my taste, but literally every other point you made, i could relate with and gave good insight into the downfall of the series/Nintendo.

[@TheElectricUnderground]

I can see what you mean, that is like the divide between the NG1 and NG2 fans ha. NG2 fans (I am firmly in that camp) argue that the more focused level design is an improvement whereas the NG1 fans like the variety of the zelda sort of missions and so forth. However, in the case of NG1 vs Bayo 3 design (both have variety), NG1 has it all within the game system if you know what I mean. You still have to use the core mechanics and so forth. In Bayo 3 though, it just pulls you into these really lame and showy mini games that have absolutely nothing with the core mechanics ha.

[@DudeDoesthing]

what do you think of astral chain?

[@largesmallworld]

My assumption is Bayo 3 is trying to appeal to a broader audience. The core action gameplay of the first 2 alienated most gamers.

[@TheElectricUnderground]

I think you are 100% on the money here. And who knows commercially it may actually work ha. For the small group of more hardcore gamers (the audience of this channel essentially ha), it is an unfortunate direction change. It seems all the Japanese IPs are going this route which is really unfortunate.

[@goukipau]

This is what stopped me playing Monster Hunter... its a shame to hear.

[@nomight273]

no? bayonetta 3 literally has more mechanics bayonetta 2 is universally hated by top players. that game was bad.

[@orangeslash1667]

@@goukipau Bayo 3 was originally going to be an open world game in the same vain as Batman Arkham City, but the Switch's hardware was too limited. So they scraped it.

[@awwnuts07]

Having hit-stun means the player actually has to understand concepts beyond attack/dodge and that kind of complexity doesn't seem to go over well with general audiences. Hyper armor is easier for people to wrap their minds around so developers default to it.

[@TheElectricUnderground]

No kidding my friend, hyper armor is becoming an absolute plague. I need to make a video about it

[@soratheorangejuicemascot5809]

@@TheElectricUnderground do it please!!

[@nomight273]

bayo 3 does have hit stun with demon slaves and you can break there armor so that you can juggle even with bayo

[@awwnuts07]

@@TheElectricUnderground At least the combo potential is still as high as ever. If you're curious, there's been a few people like BeeG (Combo MAD creator) who've already put out a couple videos that look pretty hype.

[@LondonLock]

I think Bayo went hard on the hyper armor due to increasing focus on witch time. The more possible enemy's to attack at once due to a lack of stun the more changes for perfect dodges

[@soratheorangejuicemascot5809]

Nice review video on this game. I just learned on how I can do game reviews one day. And I also felt abit discouraged on doing game reviews after I read comments. Talking about the intricacies and the little fun quirks of the game and people would just ask "what about the story??". I am glad that you are willing to do an indepth review that many people may not even like.

[@TheElectricUnderground]

Oh doing game reviews you must prepare yourself for some comment sections brawls ha. Hence why every reviewer just says what everyone else says. If you deviate even slightly your in for some fun times ha. It s worth it though if you care about honest game critique

[@vee1766]

Lol the hypocrisy, you are litteraly doing the same thing, people talk about everything that's in a game and all you care about is just "what about the fighting??". Y'all need to grow up, i understand when you are 15 thinking that videogames are just about "killing enemies" but at somepoint you have to realize it's more than that.

[@soratheorangejuicemascot5809]

@@vee1766 k

[@BoozeAholic]

@@vee1766 The fighting are the actual interactive parts of the game though which is what the core rule set is build around. Story & cinematics are a different medium more similar to movies rather than game. I love Tactics Ogre Reborn which has plenty of story but that entire game is constructed around governing rulesets to where the battling & even the choices you make feel like a game that you interact with.

[@vee1766]

@@BoozeAholic Videogames are also a visual and narrative art, hence the VIDEO. They have visual artists, designers and writers in the devellopment. And plenty of games have interactive parts outside of the fighting.

[@minecraftotalwar]

that’s not it, you have to use the “wicked weave demon sumon”, only then you will be able to do crazy combos and play like the old bayonettas

[@CrossingRover]

The whole modern games industry has such an aversion to mechanical complexity and difficulty and such a huge focus on cinematics and graphical improvement. The reason is obvious and I don’t think all the blame falls on developers. The fact of the matter is that gaming is a business and the mass market wants simpler,easier games with a focus on flashy visuals and lots of cutscenes. When something like Dark Souls or Cuphead catches on, that is the exception rather than the rule. I’m sure both were outsold 10 to 1 by button mashers like assassins creed or movies interspersed with occasional gameplay like Uncharted or The Last Of Us. I feel it is what happens to almost every form of entertainment when it hits mass appeal. Movies like Marvel and Star Wars will always outsell more challenging experiences like the Northmen or Arrival. It’s sad to see a formerly niche series like bayonetta “sell out” like this but game developers exist to make money, so I can’t be angry at them for changing the series so that it will make more money.

[@TheElectricUnderground]

Oh i Robert that is very true. Like I understand why developers do what they do with stream lining the gameplay and throwing in a bunch of gimmicks, it works so well in the short term. In the long term though, i think it all gets really stale and empty, and that's how I try to evaluate the games on the channel. Not how fun are they this weekend, but how fun will they be 5 years later, will people still play this game? Bayo 1 has stood the test of time, on Bayo 3 I'm not so sure that will be the case. I think it will be like resi 6 ha.

[@CrossingRover]

@@TheElectricUnderground Completely agreed. I didn’t mean that statement against you or your reviews, it’s more from a place of exasperation with the AAA game and movie industry that I find almost entirely uninteresting. The good news is that there are so many fantastic indie and retro games that a person could never hope to pay them all in a lifetime. So just because the mass market crap has left me behind, I still have plenty of games to enjoy.

[@nomight273]

bayonetta 3 has the most mechanics in the series

[@CrossingRover]

@@nomight273 That may indeed be true, i have not played any of the Bayonetta games to be able to determine that. I was more responding to Marks commentary in the video that the game feels “streamlined and watered down”. The last Platinum character action game I played was Wonderful 101 and i felt they did a great job creating a low skill floor and a high skill ceiling. I suspect that’s what they’re trying to do with Bayonetta 3. I can’t comment on the specifics without playing it.

[@KamikazeChinaman]

I can blame the developers and publishers because they're the ones creating the demand for trash. Even the most obscure games can be successful if you know what you're doing from development to marketing; putting the blame of their failures to produce anything worthwhile on most people having no standards is as misguided as blaming piracy. I doubt that dumbing down Bayonetta 3 is going to do Platinum Games any favors, in fact, it might bite them in the ass considering they still exist thanks to their ever growing niche fanbase which they earned by not selling out. If Platinum wants to earn more money maybe they should market their games more and better, something they always fail to do.

[@santinogoring8860]

My problem is the hardware it's on , feels like the switch holds it back performance wise, shoulda been multiplat, or stronger hardware from Nintendo. The novility of the Switch is over.

[@ShouVertica]

Think you might have a little bit too much rose tinted glasses with Ninja Gaiden 2. The reason people don't like NG2 as much as Bayonetta or Devil May Cry is because it's really just braindead combat. Hyabusa isn't interesting, there's zero flair, and the story is non-existent. As for the criticisms: I think if you play a hack-n-slash on normal you always have the problems you list. Devil May Cry is pretty chill on normal. Bayonetta is extremely chill on normal, even giving you auto combos. Godhand can be beaten with just a couple combos. It's just perspective, if you're not challenging yourself then complaining "it's not challenging" is kind of on you, isn't it?

[@TheElectricUnderground]

I play ng2 regularly to this day. It is not at all accurate to call the combat braindead.

[@ShouVertica]

@@TheElectricUnderground It is if you play normal with upgrades on sigma.

[@benfarr6049]

@@ShouVertica sigma is trash, original ng2 on series x upscaled is the way to play, not brain dead at all most satisfying combat to this day. Bayonetta 3 feels like you are hitting with a wet noodle, brain dead is playing sigma thinking it's the ng2 that people rave about

[@xenokos1602]

@@benfarr6049 you don't know what your talking about. Bayonetta 3 has the most in depth combo potential in the series Hell even high level players like it

[@ShouVertica]

@@benfarr6049 Lol

[@thegixlad27]

Everything and everyone is entitled to their opinion, and this generation goes absolutely bonkers when someone disagrees. Can we just get back to normal agree or disagreement Jesus

[@100hundert]

The most fun I have in character action games are definitely the angel slayer / bloody palace modes - just nonstop action without any stupid stop and go, genre shifts, cinematic sections or QTEs. Bayo 1 had some great sections as well, for instance that tower part where there's a stretch of room after room of enemy encounters. I still really need to get deeper in NGII, but the large focus on constant encounters really stood out positively to me. I still remember being super confused when first playing DMC3 and instead of constantly fighting enemies, I was mostly running around solving basic lock and key puzzles. Bayo 1 felt like it was mostly about the mechanics, and 2 and 3 seem to bother with stories and setpieces way too much. I'm hoping that maybe the more difficult modes in Bayo 3 have more interesting encounter designs... The first few hours also felt very Astral Chain to me, with the cold, alien, urban vibes. And yeah, the kicks and punches really lack the impact they had in Bayo 1! (and now I'm reminded of your term "gameplay density" 👌)

[@magicjohnson3121]

Bayo 1 had terrible pacing and was constantly throwing things at you other than the fighting mechanics

[@TheElectricUnderground]

Absolutely cutie angel slayer mode and bloody palace are the saving graces for Bayonetta and dmc as their campaigns are too light on combat. Exactly gameplay density is key

[@RuV9999]

this. one of the motivation why i want to finish the story mode.

[@BoozeAholic]

You've described why I can't get into character action games. They have too many puzzle & adventure elements. Ninja Gaiden is the only one that keeps it focused on the fighting. Although NG1 was structured like a Zelda game of sorts, but it never got in the way of the fighting.

[@samueldeandrade8535]

@@magicjohnson3121 wtf are you talking about?

[@Mingodough]

Kind of weird how people call bayonetta “niche” even though she’s in smash the most popular “fighting” game. Now it isn’t popular popular but niche? Ehh

[@TheElectricUnderground]

maybe a good way to make sense of it is the character herself is mainstream (people can't get enough of the character, which I think is cool), but the gameplay is uber niche. No one ever talks about it ha.

[@orangemegaslide]

It's entirely possible that all of the 'casual bait' features are front loaded. The set pieces and large spaces between combat. These things might possibly be a non issue upon later difficulty, unlocking of all features and weapons, and sticking to the extra modes and side missions/trials. Future emergent gameplay could definitely create a new opinion.

[@TheElectricUnderground]

That is true in a sense since you can unlock angel slayer mode and stuff after the campaign. But this is not how I evaluate level design at all. What a lot of people yelling at me in the comments probably don't know is that I come from an arcade game background and level design is a key area that I focus on in my reviews since it is so important in arcade games. So character action does have roots in arcade games (Mathewmattosis as a great DMC vid on this) but over the years has shifted towards rpg style design, which I point out in the review. So on the idea of frontloading all the set pieces, that's even worse. The design of the campaign should have a natural and engaging flow throughout because frontloading is going to be bad for everyone. It's gonna immediately push out players like myself who dislike the constant interruptions but it's also going be seem uneven to players who accept the set pieces and go along with them. Either way it's just not good design.

[@orangemegaslide]

@@TheElectricUnderground I'm definitely not disagreeing with what you've been saying. As I see it, too, but I don't feel stable in judgment. I also came from an arcade background - fighting games competitively(not anymore), and beat em ups/belt scrollers(though not nearly as competent), latter of which is how I found your channel + iconoclast's. But unfortunately, we're a minority and dying breed, and as such we have to more often recontextualize many games released(especially if devs of these games want to keep the light on), and many times find the designs we enjoy, on the back end or through evolution or emergence - as naturally we'd be the ones to stick around and go searching intrinsically, as that path is also where most gameplay oriented depth and mastery reside. Essentially I agree with your points about level design pacing and the sort, it's a big clash butting heads with the combat, but over time those parts of the game and modes might likely be where gameplay would be least spent. As far as how the game will play out with derived depth and complexity, floor and ceiling, my opinion is reserved... as emergent gameplay can produce unpredictable results, and this game has only been out for a weekend.

[@magicjohnson3121]

Have you played Donkey Kong Jungle Beat? Really unique platformer with combos and a scoring system essential to the game.

[@TheBlackSamurai2708]

Amazing game

[@TheElectricUnderground]

I haven't but those drums look really fun ha

[@fakydfakefake9515]

Finally a review that goes a bit more in depth than just "the combat is so awesome and depp and complex and....". Keep up the good work! Btw. have you ever looked at Assault Spy? A nice indie character action game, very streamlined and heavy combat focussed ;)

[@TheElectricUnderground]

Exactly faky. All the commentary for the games combat and level design is so broad and general it could be copy and pasted into another games review completely. Also never heard of the game you mention but it sounds right up my alley! Thanks for the recommendation :-)

[@dez87]

The combat is very deep

[@NuiYabuko]

@@TheElectricUnderground That might also be because a lot of things might be embargoed, but let's make a conspiracy theory out of it.

[@samueldeandrade8535]

​@@dez87 not at all.

[@dez87]

@@samueldeandrade8535 cry

[@vayeate23]

While your opinion is fine, I think this review shortchanges Platinum's usually open ended systems. If you took time to dig into the mechanics, with skill trees and others mentioning you can focus more on melee combat tactics, perhaps you should take another look. Even for Vanquish, many beginner players do not understand the combat system, but once you get into it, it's brilliant. Even Platinum's Transformer game has a crazy combo system that not many people have tried. Much like you, I also prefer melee style combat vs ranged combat. So, I will also keep that in mind as I have time to play with the systems

[@TheElectricUnderground]

Yeah but the problem with a lot of platinum combat systems is that it all shakes out to the same sort of thing. You can do these long flashy combos but in the end the results aren't really that different. Your mostly making your own fun because when it comes to the level design and enemy design, very little of it is necessary. That s my point when talking about the game design. The mechanics are there (though summons do bog them down) but the motive to push the player to use them is not. Why should I learn a 100 hit combo if I don't need to?

[@dez87]

@@TheElectricUnderground that's the case for literally most character action games. The demon summoning mechanic adds insane depth

[@huymaivan8671]

@@TheElectricUnderground"Why should I learn a 100 hit combo if I don't need to?" Now your statement here let me know you actually over use the summon and just in the early game. Because if you're into late game, you 'll get hit alot for being over use of the summon and when the boss one shot your summon, what else have you got then?

[@minecraftotalwar]

agreed

[@minecraftotalwar]

@@TheElectricUnderground that is a lie, mate. you need to learn how to play the game before talking things that you just don't know how to do

[@thefractalcactus]

Bayonetta has always been the easier, approachable character action game, even so far back as the first one and especially if you're comparing it to its contemporaries at the time. There were also more than a handful of ways to tamp down the challenge of that game (even on the hardest difficulty) using exploits and dominant strategy like the Killgore Durga rocket launcher trick (there might be more as it's been a while since I've played Bayo 1. I seem to remember the whip having some fairly broken setups). I don't necessarily disagree that they have smoothed over some of the series edges / made it more aerodynamic, but I think that what they're really doing is leaning more into what makes Bayonetta unique. If people want blistering difficulty, play DMC3 or Ninja Gaiden Black. Not every game needs to be those games. Hell, future entries in those respective franchises don't play like DMC3 and NGB. Having said that, I rather like that Bayonetta feels less like the pseudo-sequel to DMC1 that the first game is and more like its own thing. Also, I'm absolutely withholding any greater judgement on the games overall system depth and strategic complexity until I've cleared the highest difficulty. You've made no mention here of Demon Winking and Blinking, for example. I'm not trying to be combative or anything, lol. I just think that sometimes it can be fun to challenge people's perspectives / opinions. Especially since everyone in the comments is just piling on the group think. No hard feelings or anything. Take care.

[@TheElectricUnderground]

Yeah bayo has always been the more introductory/streamlined game among that stand outs in the genre. However there is a window of interest where as bayo has become more and more toned down it s now exiting the area of interest for a lot of character action players, including myself. The specifics of the design do matter because while you can say if a player wants ninja gaiden play ninja gaiden, then I would say well let's not pretend then that bayo 3 is in the same league or genre. Now it s much more like nier automata or an action rpg. Also bayo leaning more and more into streamlined summoning and all that is more like losing what makes the IP unique. Action rpg are everywhere these days.

[@thefractalcactus]

I do feel like Nier Automata was an influence on Bayo 3 (the level design makes that apparent) but I don't know if I out and out agree that it's strictly an action rpg. I have always attributed character action games as being titles with a high skill ceiling. Bayo 3 still has a high skill cieling, but what they've done is raised the skill floor so people can onboard a bit easier. You could absolutely label that as a watering down of core systems, sure. You used the example of GGStrive, which seems applicable. Also, I figured the Demon Slave system was going to be contentious, but I'm also really curious to see what high level play looks like when incorporating it, especially on harder difficulties. And in terms of difficulty / purity of core genre elements, yeah Bayo is nowhere near Ninja Gaiden... I miss Ninja Gaiden.

[@nomight273]

@@TheElectricUnderground you couldnt even include major mechanics of the game into your review and then compare the game to gg strive despite this game having more mechanics than 1 its literally in no way comparable to nier. you dont know what turned down means lmao and its evident in you review.

[@minecraftotalwar]

@@nomight273 exactly!!

[@orangeslash1667]

@@thefractalcactus Bayo 3 was originally going to be an open world game in the same vain as Batman Arkham City, but the Switch's hardware was too limited. So they scraped it.

[@Busterbalz]

I am a die hard NG2 fan, it was the game that introduced me to the character action genre, which is now my favorite genre of games. Bayo 1 is at its best in the witch trials, because it's nothing but you and the combat, which Bayonetta 1 EXCELS at, absolutely tight, fluid, fun. Bayo 3 is also at its best in the witch trials but playing it I notice it lacks the tight focus of 1. I bring up NG2 because the WHOLE GAME is like Bayo's witch trials, no gimmicks, no bullshit, no big eye popping setpieces for jurnos to gush about, just you carving your way through an onslaught of armies of enemies. AAA games like that absolutely do not get made anymore. That's why casuals hate Ninja Gaiden, there's no bells or whistles to dazzle them or distract them when they're getting destroyed, it's very japanese in its design philosophy: you sink or you swim. No-nonsense.

[@creeper5051]

Alright, first thing's first. Bayonetta 3 is ONLY available for the Nintendo Switch. Not for the Wii-U, PS3, or Xbox 360, nor is it EVER coming to PC. With that being out of the way, I digress. Nintendo never "Nintendofied" (how you put it) this series at all. In fact, back when Nintendo funded the sequel Bayonetta 2 (Because it is a fact, that without Nintendo's aid this franchise would have been a one and done) it was Nintendo who suggested to Platinum Games to really push that M rating to its brink. The violence, language, sex appeal and what not did NOT suffer once Nintendo came on board back in 2012. And say what you want, Bayonetta 2 is just as beloved by critics and fans as the original. In fact, I'd say it was beloved even more, at least by critics. Platinum Games was in trouble financially once the turn of the decade came around. They were desperately shopping the Bayonetta sequel to many publishers. Including Sony and Microsoft Studios, who all PASSED on it. Nintendo at the 11th hour got wind of the situation and came to the developer's aid. So basically without Nintendo, we wouldn't have shit but Bayonetta part one on Xbox 360 and the notoriously terrible PS3 port that ran at less than 30 frames per second. Fast forward to Bayonetta 3. The reason that Bayonetta looks so differently than on the other two games is because this Bayonetta is NOT the Bayonetta from the previous 2 games. This game is centered around a "multi-verse" of Bayonettas. So this character is NOT the one we are used to. But don't worry, and SPOILER ALERT: The Bayonetta we know and love comes back toward the game's 3rd act. Lastly, the Demon Slave debacle. You can say what you want about this new feature, but here's the kicker. You DO NOT NEED TO UTILIZE IT IF YOU DON'T WANT TO. You can defeat your foe anyway you'd like. The Demon Slave is simply an OPTION that you may, or may not find interesting or even challenging to utilize. It's a playing choice. The combat in this game is deep and quite innovative. It's also fluent and responsive. See, Platinum games isn't trying to reinvent the wheel here. They're showing you different ways you can steer without it. It's up to us the players to choose how we get there. And to be fair Ninja Gaiden one and two are phenomenal games. But I don't want Bayonetta to be Ninja Gaiden nor vice a versa, because great games make their own identity. They mimic each other, but never completely rip off the other. Bayonetta 3 is what it is, and I wouldn't have it any other way.

[@TheElectricUnderground]

My friend the part of the description where I say the game is available on PS3, Xbox 360, and Sega Dreamcast is a joke ha. I m making fun of the fact that the game looks like it s from that era. I mean that's obvious man. The fact that you think I was being serious shows that your not processing what I am saying and just typing out of anger.

[@huymaivan8671]

@@TheElectricUnderground Well, I think I'll take the later part of this guy seriously and see if you interesting to debate about it: The part from "Lastly, the Demon Slave debacle" if you notice.

[@86lanzo]

My dude...I thought I was the only one who thought Ninja Gaiden 2 was the best character action game ever... No lie I played DMC5...and as soon as I finish it I loved it...but I played NG2 after and realized what DMC 5 was missing..which was enemies who wanted to kill you.. Dmc5 enemies just feel like they're there for you to style on..while NG2 enemies feel like they're there to destroy you at all cost .

[@TheElectricUnderground]

Exactly my friend!!! The enemy design and level design, on top of the combat, is so strong in NG2

[@platinumconquest2365]

If you liked DMC5's combat but wanted a tougher challenge, I'd suggest you pick up DMC3 at some point. DMC3 was far more challenging than every other DMC game that came after it. DMC3 has the reputation as being one of the hardest action games of that generation (some would argue even up there with Ninja Gaiden). Unfortunately Capcom saw that certain people were complaining about the challange and overcorrected the difficulty for DMC4 onwards.

[@absol_lute_zero9083]

This video is super intriguing. You make it seem like you've never even played Bayonetta 3. What puzzles are you talking about? And what is it about the action set pieces that upset you? Also found it odd how you claim every fight is the same, despite the variety of enemies the game has, Some that even adapt to your attacks and punish you for using demon slave too much.

[@huymaivan8671]

He just play early stage of the game, hit some basic enemies and quit right there to review the whole game, that's why he didn't talk about other new weapon and new combat mechanic when we progress futher into the game. It's also the reason why he is so bad at the summon mechanic and think that's all the game have.

[@sahzus]

Ninja gaiden can’t hold a candle to bayonetta 3 is something..even as a joke I would never imagine hearing

[@TheElectricUnderground]

Ha no kidding right. I did read something to that effect in one of the 10/10 reviews where bayo 3 is like the pinnacle of the genre and so forth. Also game journalists have never fawned over ng2, since it beat them down so relentlessly ha

[@RuV9999]

btw. i remember back then i want to try Ninja Gaiden game because i like how Ryu appearance in modern costume that looks cool. and wanting to hop into that game. for pc...is there a ninja Gaiden that good to play? at least for bayonetta player?

[@TheElectricUnderground]

A great starting place is Ninja Gaiden 2 Sigma on PC. I do think the Xbox 1 x version of NG2 is better, but Sigma is less wild and specifically made to be more welcoming for new players, so I def think that's the best starting place.

[@platinumconquest2365]

NG is pretty different to Bayonetta so I can't necessarily give you a recommendation based off of any sort of simularity. That being said, I'd say Start with NG Sigma 1 if you're on PC. Holds up really well, and is a lot of people's favourite.

[@RuV9999]

@@platinumconquest2365 oh boy the Master collection is expensive....

[@RuV9999]

@@TheElectricUnderground the game is expensive. im probably gonna wait until on sale.

[@1lapmagic]

Overrated? There's zero organic buzz or discussion. If anything it's overdiscussed and had 0 interest from inception from enthusiast crowds. People who want the same things/same series over and over are not enthusiasts

[@ungabungus01]

I already know what the complaints are gonna be 1. Too much focus on demon slaves 2. Forced to use viola 3. Forced mini games/side chapters (all bayo has this) That being said those above complaints are valid if you don't like that

[@TheElectricUnderground]

Oh you guessed some for sure! But there are others that are less obvious (I hope ha)

[@orfeas2335]

Exactly my issues with the game. Especially demon control felt so laggy, clunky and tedious

[@nomight273]

@@orfeas2335 are we playing the same game? the demons feel quick and smooth

[@orfeas2335]

@@nomight273 Takes at least 3 sec for an attack to take place. Finished it yesterday

[@philipblaskowski5244]

@@orfeas2335 you're supposed to use demon slave in tandem with bayo. Queue up your demon's attacks and you're free to move and attack with bayo.

[@TonyTonyRedgrave]

Hey Mark, have you seen the Ninja Gaiden SIgma 2 Black mod? I'm a huge Sigma 2 hater but the mod looks pretty sick, I think I'm finally ready to recommend my non xbox having friends to get into the series.

[@TheElectricUnderground]

I have! I tried it out but sadly my wimpy computer doesn't seem to run it well :-(

[@MG6344]

I still think that Wonderful 101 is Platinum's peak. The combat is a frantic back and forth, you have access to your entire weapon arsenal at once, and the camera is fantastic. But the game also has the highest amount of gimmick sections out of any Platinum game, so I can see why it's not everyone's cup of tea.

[@TheElectricUnderground]

Great user name first off ha! Also yeah I have wonderful 101 on wii u, but it's one of those games I can't really get myself to play for more than a few min for some reason, maybe the whole group formation thing doesn't appeal to me.

[@TheSamuraiGoomba]

@@TheElectricUnderground I know the formation idea is definitely what kept me away from it. I like my action games to be about a lone dude or dudette obliterating everything in my way. I'm also really tired of superhero stuff.

[@MG6344]

@@TheElectricUnderground Ty. And yeah, drawing weapons definitely takes some time getting used to, but once you do get used to it, it becomes second nature.

[@ianchaurero3023]

I understand but the ending to this game is 🦇 💩 crazy!!!

[@danjohansenmusic]

I enjoyed parts of that game, but I felt it became a mess and a lot of issues with too much going on, on screen and out of the screen BS.

[@antop4597]

"has such a large passage of time degraded the game's combat and design? (The answer is yes)" Such a bullshit statement lmao. The combat is still top tier, definitely better than the previous games and as for the design, have you ever thought that maybe there was a clear limitation the devs faced when making this game? Just how much shit do you think a nintendo switch can do on it's hugely limited hardware? If you actually attempted a real playthrough instead of most likely rushing through 4 chapters on easy mode you would have seen the combat drastically opens up.

[@TheElectricUnderground]

Not bullshit at all my friend. Bayo's 1 combat is absolutely superior to Bayo 3's. I think your fully onboard the hype train right now. As I say in the vid the reduction to hitstun, the simplification of the close quarter combat system to be just a setup to summon enders and the blandness of the enemy design, some of which actively run away from you ha, all easily sum up to be a reduced experience to Bayo 1. Also on the point of the Switch being limited hardware, you know what other games run perfectly fine on the Switch, Bayo 1 and DMC 3. Both of which are better games and have superior combat and level design.

[@antop4597]

@@TheElectricUnderground mate are you for real? The combat in bayo 1 is the exact same thing as this? By hitstun I assume you mean the way normal attacks stagger enemies less? I thought it was pretty clear that the enemies in this game were far stronger than the angels and demons of previous games from a story standpoint.

[@randallk6812]

Im at a point in my life where if im not motivated enough to finish a game then its not a great game. Hence the fate of Bayonetta 3

[@MinoBunny_o3o]

i mean bayonetta 3 is in my top 5 games of all times and ive been playing games my whole life basically, and i love the core gameplay, and its not the same 5 enemies, every single verse tries to teach you to do something different. Viola challenges your dodging by taking it off, Bayonetta has more strict dodge timing. I mean I play a game for the story and the gameplay, and yes it does get interrupted by story sometimes, and there's a lot of different combos and different playstyles. with more than 20 weapons with their own unique sets of learning curves. your sore is shit if you start repeating actions over and over. You need to combo for a good score. the game made me cry it made me FEEL something, it was so fun to fight the bosses with context with the story. ninja giden or wtvr doesn't look interesting it feels like a sandbox where you just fight and get to the end. The jeanne sections were amazing because it was something different. the core gameplay is incredibly varied since there's a ton of weapons with a ton of demons and different strategies, there's some exclusive to the clock tower, some to madama butterfly. That shows you played the game refusing to get into the gameplay more than surface level, you found the strat to push enemies up and refuse to experiment any further... that's like playing a shooter and just using one gun because it works for the level 1 zombies .-.

[@TheElectricUnderground]

Glad to hear you are enjoying the game, though top 5 games of all time seems very strong to me, especially since you just got the game this weekend. I didn't play the game refusing to enjoy it ha. That s always a funny way to deflect criticism. The thing is that nothing of what I said is innaccurate, and you are fighting a small pool of enemy types over a long drawn out span that takes forever to advance with all the constant interruptions. Really game critique feedback often comes down to this point of well if you really settle in, and play the game just right, that s where the fun is. Essentially how can any game be flawed then?

[@dez87]

@@TheElectricUnderground I mean. The watered down point is inaccurate

[@huymaivan8671]

I guess reviewer nowaday dont have enough time to complete the game, let's just play the first chapter then write review about it while it still hot and move on to another game as fast as possible.

[@risingblur770]

I'm currently half through this video and already pretty confused. Gonna watch the other half in a moment but I just had to comment about your statement with "you only fight the same 3 enemies, at least in the first few hours". Like, have you ever played a game? That's literally the same in almost any action game. To slowly introduce more enemy types and variants.

[@risingblur770]

not to mention. You talk about enemies not being able to be juggled around like with earlier games, just to show a clip of you holding them in the air "DMC style"

[@TheElectricUnderground]

I said the same 5 enemies, not three ha. Really if you go through the first few hours of the game and count how many enemy types there are, there are around 5. My point is that what the game is doing is taking the core soup of the combat and enemy design, and diluting it with a bunch of empty traversal sections and mini game sequences to increase the volume, but making the flavor bland. If the game was more focused on core combat and level design, it would be immediately obvious has unvaried the core gameplay is, but since they have all these fillers and forced breaks, players assume they are getting more value than they actually are.

[@risingblur770]

@@TheElectricUnderground wow, I made a simple mistake and typed 3 instead of 5, what an own. Maybe it‘s „only 5“ because it‘s the beginning of the game? And action games start with a small cast of enemies while slowly introducing new ones? Like seriously, have you ever played bayonetta 1 or 2? They aren’t diluting anything. Again, have you ever even played one of the previous games? They are the exact same. DMC is the exact same. Basically any other Platinum game is the exact same. If you find the core gameplay unvaried, maybe try using one of the different weapons and demons? There‘s a reason you get so many. Imagine a game trying to tell a story and have actual levels that are explorable for secrets besides just the combat. I wonder if you have the same problem with literally every game ever created, like doom, Diablo, metal gear rising, resident evil 4, basically every DMC game and even ninja gaiden

[@macalloway1]

I totally agree that they are blending character action and action rpgs to the point where action rpgs are becoming character action games as well. They want to sell games and they know the "casuals" want to be able to pick a game up and do stuff and not have to master a bunch of nuanced mechanics to look good while playing. I beat a lot of games by die a lot and leaning on skills learned in the early game until after years of doing so I played a game or 2 that wouldn't let me do that. Not everyone is going to try to learn a game rather than put it down

[@TheElectricUnderground]

Exactly the two genres are blending together which I think is unfortunate. Both are looking at the other and thinking, if reduce down what makes our genres unique we will increase the size of the greatest common denominator. So hardcore RPG types (which I admit I am not) now have to deal with light combat elements and hardcore action game players (which I am one) now have to suffer through rpg elements and streamlined combat. It's an unfortunate strategy we've seen over and over again with series that start off with a specific appeal, like bayo, that gets traded in for more generic design.

[@henryadamsson5179]

Your idea that it is Nintendo who is pushing for the developers to tone down the game seems unlikely given that Platinum has explicitly stated that this is not the case. Mass appeal is also not something specific to Nintendo, but to all consoles in general. It is not like Playstation is some secret niche console for the videogame connoisseur. I do, however, share many of your thoughts about this, in particular concerning the visuals. It's a very drab looking game.

[@TheElectricUnderground]

Well there is direct and indirect influence. I d believe that Nintendo are not sending them specific instructions on what the game should contain. But I think it is likely that Nintendo are having meetings with platinum and saying we need these sales figures hit and you need to figure out a way to hit them.

[@NuiYabuko]

@@TheElectricUnderground Dude, they picked up a franchise that Sega dropped, because the first one didn't sell too well, being fully aware of its sales potential. If you have no proof, then stop with the conspiracy theories.

[@thebluelion3337]

I'm really sorry man, I watched through hoping for an in-depth look at the Bayonetta 3's combat mechanics. But the whole video is a tremendously bad take. Using game journalists is a crutch where you don't actually have to do an in-depth analysis of your own. To address some of the points raised. - The Campaign of every character action game is broken up by platforming/puzzles, B3 is no different in this regard. Some have more or less combat but all of them try to mix it up. Which brings me to - - For people that just want pure combat - every one of these games has a mode dedicated to just that. Bayonetta has witch trials, DMC has bloody palace mode. - Character action games give you so many tools and toys to play with, there's going to be cheesy strats that make the game trivial. Whether they give you enough freedom to play the game without resorting to cheesy strats, is the true measure of a CA game (B3 is unproven in this regard, but it gives a metric ton of things to play with) - Character action games don't go down well? That's maybe the worst take on the whole video - they have always reviewed extremely well. - Another rubbish take on appealing to casuals, For me, this is the beauty of character action games. Casual players can button mash and see cool stuff happen when they experience the story, whereas hardcore players can find enough depth there to sink their teeth into and practice for hours and get better. The whole tone of the video is gatekeepery, taking cheap shots and lacking any actual in depth discussion or criticism of the mechanics

[@TheElectricUnderground]

In this video I guarantee I have talked more about the combat and level design than all the mainstream reviews ha. Show me a review that has more analysis on these topics. So I'll respond to your points. 1. While a lot of character action games had a lot of these elements in the past, that doesn't make them good ha. Old resident evils all had tank control, does that mean tank control needs to be perpetuated into the future forever? Also you have to admit that post DMC 4 and NG2, alot of these elements have been dropped from the genre because they are lame. 2. Trial modes and arena modes are no replacement for a solid campaign. You know that's a silly defense. So could Bayo 3 just cut the campaign completely and it's all good ha? So basically casual players who enjoy mini games and cutscenes should be the focus of 90% of the content and the hardcore players should just accept there little trial modes and be happy with that? 3. Character action games do give you a lot of tools to play with, but that doesn't make them well designed. If you introduce a really centralized play style of a game that works crazy well, like I describe in the vid, why should I deviate from it, just to humor the dev? Only mainstream games make this defense, arcade genres recognize that you have to challenge and balance over centralizing mechanics. 4. Now your just plain wrong, a quick wiki search will show you that. Ninja gaiden 2 had average reviews and was deemed less improved sequel (as I show). Godhand got slaughtered by IGN (as I also show) and NG3 Razer's edge was also panned. Devil may cry 4 has good reviews, but no 10/10. It's only Bayo that gets this massive glowing praise and for the reasons I outline in the vid. 5. The game is clearly made for more casual players, on what basis can you even refute that claim? You even say that you are a casual player yourself and like how it's geared towards you ha. So in the end I think what we are looking at here is that you are a casual player, you like the game, but to hear the perspective of a more dedicated player to the genre offends you. I also find the charge of gatekeeping very silly. I'm a small niche versus the entire gaming review landscape, I think you actually are the gatekeeper trying to talk down to a dissenting opinion. Thanks for tuning though :-)

[@mpo48]

gatekeeping is good the game wouldn't be bad if we gatekept harder, we need action not cutcenes and quicktime events

[@nomight273]

THANKYOU this dude is just giving out misinformation

[@nomight273]

@@TheElectricUnderground and you STILL ignored mechanics in the game lmao

[@nomight273]

@@TheElectricUnderground ah yes a game with MORE mechanics is more "casual friendly" what a joke of a review

[@haroldasusus4684]

I don’t understand the complaint about qte’s cinematic sequences and game shake ups. The first game had insta kill qte’s in cutscenes and gameplay, some levels are 80% motorcycle riding and playing an 80s arcade game. The criticism of the game not having gameplay is silly considering the motorcycle/summon set pieces are STILL GAMEPLAY

[@saaaaaaaaadasda]

Incredibly incorrect compartion, this game have like 10x times of mini-games that is not a core combat.

[@haroldasusus4684]

@@saaaaaaaaadasda but they are significantly shorter. In bayo one the motorcycle and space harrier levels get in the way of some of the best bosses in the game

[@saaaaaaaaadasda]

​@@haroldasusus4684 I agree, but that doesnt change the fact that theres a buttload of them and many of them are last for 2-3 minutes which is like 2-3 ranked fights - godzilla sliding, godzilla fight that you can't speed up, kaijuu NES/arcade game rip-off, spider ride with confusing camera and sudden 30fps lock - it lasts for 3 minutes if you want a Pure Platinum. Another spider platforming, puzzles that you can't skip, flying section that is a rip-off of DMC 1 final scene, viola wandering in the sands, cheshire seeking water, walky-talky sections that arent skippable even on repeated playthoughs because they masking loading. Madama butterfly section (even if i think its fun) another flying section in france, plastering 2d sprites of soldiers with gommorah, rhytm mini-game... it just never stops and its all ranked. I've probably forgot something and i don't even count Jeanne sections here, because they are their own chapters. Checkpoints dont solve anything, because if you replay full chapters just like any other spectacle action game, you will need to go though them again and you can't skip them. Ironicly Witch Trials is the only place that gives you a lot of combat without interruption. Also in defence of Bayo 1 i can say that every boss that is not Jeanne have its own chapter. They could just add a boss replay and boss rush mode, its one of the many things that could be implemented in this game but alas.

[@spicyleonardoii4289]

first bayo was 9/10, second 7.5/10, third bayonetta was so frustrating and bad 5/10. Garbage platforming, sponge and boring enemies to fight, every fight was a mini boss very few mobs where you had to balance the agro and use witch time, and they have turned torture attacks into boring shitty moves.

[@dez87]

Wrong this game has the most In depth combat in the series. High level players agree that this games combat is leagues better then 2 and at least as good as 1

[@spicyleonardoii4289]

@@dez87 you didnt disprove anything i said. I am a high level player who pure platted every bayo. Game is shit

[@dez87]

@@spicyleonardoii4289 your not a high level player lmao. Everyone can pure play the games lol. Hell my sister just finished doing it with bayonetta 1 and she barely plays the game. Actual high level players are the ones making combo videos. And they say this game is leagues better then 2. You couldn't even combo enemies in 2 most of the time without them breaking out mid combo. Not to mention old torture attacks where shit and ruined the flow of the fight. Cope and seethe

[@fixedcamera1000]

I agree.

[@dez87]

Lmao

[@kachiman1696]

I disagree, I think her look in 3 makes her look a lot younger, ffs she has the same hairstyle that she had as a kid in the first game. If anything, they made her look more magical girl and toned downed the witch/ stripper element of her.

[@TheElectricUnderground]

Toned down is absolutely the key word here. We both agree on that. As for her looking older, the whole puffy sleeve thing is an older woman's style.

[@umbranelegance9034]

Either way she looks like a princess. She's not a preppy character. In general, her whole personality is 'toned down. It's not just her look.

[@martinsdesign7356]

Tottally agree. That game has super mario 64 level design stile. Not a Ninja Gaiden stile. Not designed to flow the fight. Maybe platinum did that to longer the game tought.

[@Gogootz]

Time for a "Character action game" tier list maybe? I would say that Bayonetta series is B tier overall, maybe A tier for the first game if I'm feeling generous. I thought the first one was pretty good at the time but didn't care for Bayo 2 as much. Will probably try the third game eventually but I'm not in a hurry.

[@TheElectricUnderground]

Oh that is a fantastic idea Jack! Spoiler Ninja Gaiden 2 is number 1 ha, behind that though the list would get interesting to hammer out!

[@minecraftotalwar]

enemies do have hyper armor but you can still combo with wicked weaves while on witch time or when you use the wink slave mechanic... you gotta understand the game before criticizing, man

[@nomight9363]

Someone on Twitter said "The easiest way to show me that you didn't play any puppet characters until 2019 and your knowledge of action games is limited to like four titles in total is to compare 3 Bayo and Viola to V and think you're saying something smart" And I absolutely agree Not to mention this game objectively has more depth than the past 2

[@TheElectricUnderground]

Ahh yes because it's not like V's inclusion and emphasis on ranged combat wasn't going to be influential to other games in the genre ha. In my review I should have picked out an obscure reference that most players are not familiar with, to show how deep my knowledge is. I never thought I'd run across hipsterism in character action games (that's usually reserved for RPG) but here it is ha. So outside of your gaming hipster quote what is the point that your making? That since other games have used "puppet characters" in character action therefore the way it's used in bayonetta 3 just automatically works? There's no need for nuance here. Also puppet character is a very broad description. How the mechanic works and how it's incorporated into the game design is going to be important. This comment is just a blind appeal to authority to some guy on twitter.

[@nomight9363]

@@TheElectricUnderground you even thinking of comparing it to V is foolish enough. It's literally nothing like v. His whole playstyle is literally JUST the demons he controls and they are controlled MUCH differently than bayonettas demon slave. It's such a foolish comparison that's literally just based on "wow this character can controll demons?? That's JUST like V!!" Not to mention you kinda outed yourself in other comments on simply not being very good at the mechanic at all

[@saikorofunk6498]

I agree. So disappointed in Mark. Thought he was better. He’s literally using a subjective ideal model of what he believes a character action should be and compares that with Bayonetta 3. The problem with that? You see it when he compares Bayo 3’s level design to ‘Western’ games and ‘not Japanese’. Making such binary statements can sometimes lead to looking at a society one-dimensionally and this leads to stereotypes and half-truths. If you’re too rigid with your labels, you begin to water-down your observations to fit your model. And you can guess what happens when you do that to an entire culture. His idea of Bayo 3 doesn’t fit his internal model of character action games. But is his model accurate or skewed like his western level design comment? Has your model evolved as more games come out to test this definition? For how much he criticizes journalists, why is it that I get the feeling that these journalists actually played the game to its end but not Mark? Guess I’ll play one level of DoDonpachi and review it. I’m sure I’ll do it justice. And yet he finds nothing wrong with acting like this. Wow! How does he think he’s on the same level as these journalists he’s criticizing then? I’ll give you a hint Mark. It’s called, stop being lazy and finish the game for a proper review. It’s obvious. Stop relying on your intuition so much cuz you missed the mark here. It’s not the conclusion you make - it’s how you got there. What if you’re idea of character action games are too rigid and flat? Maybe calling character action games as 3d beat-em ups like you did on someone’s comment is not entirely accurate? Guess Yakuza is also a character action game too. Maybe your idea of action rpg is not defined well either. Sounds like something a reviewer who prides himself on analysis should think about. Oh and hipsterism? Lol. Sounds like a hipster thing to say. Good job. That another model of yours?

[@Eoryu]

@@saikorofunk6498 he also just posted a speedrun in a comment and went “see! I’m right!” Completely disingenuous

[@minecraftotalwar]

couldn't agree more

[@juan.v9952]

Any plans to cover Valkyrie Elysium or Stranger of Paradise?

[@TheElectricUnderground]

oh I think up next on the character action list is the cult classic Godhand!

[@dez87]

How is it watered down? It has more mechanics. Like the game so far has ALOT more depth than 2 going by the weapons alone

[@TheElectricUnderground]

Adding weapons and Mechanics does not equal depth my friend. It s watered down because the core of the gameplay has been streamlined. Adding all these extras on top doesn't change that. Think about it like this: a fighting game has an attack that beats all the other attacks and is safe on block. That game could have 50000 other attacks, but if you have that one attack you can do over and over, the rest is all just noise. This is the case with bayo 3. The long distance summoning and meter scamming is so good that why should I do anything different? Just because? Strong game design challenges the player rather than just hoping the player will make his own fun.

[@dez87]

@@TheElectricUnderground but going by that logic 99 percent of character action games are streamlined? I'll use bayonetta 1 for example. You can literally breeze through the game using the basic op punch kick punch combo. And it's even MORE easy when you use the sword which does insane amounts of damage. So with that logic why should I engage with the games other mechanics? It's a character action game. These games are meant to be played how you want to play it. Dmc is a good example of this. It can be the most braindead spam stinger game or a very cool action game if you decide to engage in mechanics. What's stopping me from simply spamming the uppercut with balrog while playing Dante? This reminds me of an argument a very infamous KZbinr named "under the mayo" used against a fps character action game inspired game called ultrakill. He argued he had no reason to use any of the games mechanics because he was able to beat the game without doing so, which is a silly take considering it's a game that's made to be played how you want to play it. And demon slave is better in this regard since for one there's multiple instances in the game where you can't use it AND it actually adds more creativity and skill sealing Messing around with these mechanics in the practice mode and the possibilities actually just seem endless

[@Tastymond]

@@dez87 More power to you for enjoying the games combat which blows my mind tbh, have to say I'm more on the other side of finding the combat soooo boring that I don't even want to engage more with it. I personally don't think you should be able to beat the games on the hardest modes mashing and that's what you can do In this game. The combat should make players want to learn by being interesting and not mash friendly, If people find the depth of Bayonetta In pure platinum medals for every verse then that's part of the problem.

[@dez87]

@@Tastymond no the depth of bayonetta is in the actual combat system and combo potential lmao I can spam a move in every dmc game on hardest difficulty and be successful

[@Tastymond]

@@dez87 Damn if you find the combat that good you shoudl try some other games than just DMC and Bayonetta.

[@kagemara277]

I think most people here got caught up with their focus on the negatives and totally disregarding the positives. Bayo is ma favourite hack and slash and first of all I had more fun with it than GOW Ragnarok and DMCV. As a stand-alone hack and slash this game was so much fun that I restarted right away after finishing it. Many amazing weapons that are super original. Demons have a great variety and I would say the gameplay shines the most on Infinite Climax since you have to use all skills/Demons well right from the start. As a Bayo fan, I didn’t like her design, the cutscenes apart from some exceptions felt like a B movie- Bayo2 was extraordinary in this regard and in this game Bayo lacks her character. I might be one of the few but the villain- super advanced nano machine AI felt really like a great threat but I disliked some level design- in many it felt too barren and not all characters got the attention they deserved. So from gameplay perspective I would give it 9/10, and as a franchise game it falls behind B2/1. The first had the best vibe and I wish it was retained. Also her face looks terrible and not as sharp, powerful and witty as in past games. Overall this is a solid 8.5/10 game and I wish it got the same level of polish as B2, W101 and Astral Chain-which had great artstyle. This still might be the best hack and slash of the past 10 years and even DMCV could take many lesson mainly from level design which was terrible in DMCV. Otherwise give the game more chance and see how it clicks on the highest difficulty.

[@TheElectricUnderground]

tune in for my upcoming ff16 review actually ha. Because a lot of the same themes that I explore in this video I talk about in the ff16 review, but from a different angle. The big issue with bayo 3 is that it weakens what was the strongest aspect of the series, the core combat (the summons greatly undermine the risk reward of the melee combat and streamline it too much), and then adds even more of the weak elements of the series like all the filler sections and non combat sections with the final result of a greatly watered down action game experience. It also doesn't help that the game looks bland, even compared to bayo 1. So looking back on the game now, all the 9/10 and 10/10 scores seem pretty absurd right.

[@kagemara277]

@@TheElectricUnderground can’t wait to watch your FFXVI review! I feel we are on the same wavelength! I actually totally agree with you, just tried to push more of the positives of the game. I would give it 8.8 but B2/B1 are at least 9.3 for me both for also different reasons. Now with Bayo3 I actually loved the gameplay diversity and huge focus on mini missions. All Platinum games have had some mini missions that were just old throwbacks to click and shoot/sin and punishment or rail shooting like Star Fox. Then in Nier Automata- I loved the focus on more arcade shoot’em that really suited the game. Now with Bayo3 they had a creative seizure lol. Not all of them have a phenomenal polish, but I personally enjoyed those. I think B3 became like the best of all arcade gaming collection, but I know some might now have enjoyed that. So I have to say I loved it as an action game, but got disappointed as a Bayo fan too. They should return to the more serious dark tone of the first game. I still love B2 just for how cool Bayo is in that game. But B3 I love the weapons, I have to admit that. B1 and all DMC games all give in to the loyal fan base so the most creative weapon in DMCV was the motorbike or cowboy hat, but B3 have phenomenal weapon choices, since any item can be possessed by a demon so they we just fun even though the attack pattern and general use might not differ too much they were still fun to me-Love the Tomb stone, Abrakadabra, Anti Material Rifle, even the train- which is a cool call back to Wonderful 101- I think people who like Kamiya’s work all see the throw back to all their past games even if things like the train is little clumsy and difficult to use well, but it’s creative. Sorry for the long answer, I would love to speak about Bayo for hours lol so I’d better end it now:) will tune in on the FFXVI review;)

[@thund3rstruck]

Wow, I couldn't disagree more with your take. I've played Bayonetta 1 probably 5 or 6 times and I feel its pacing is perfect. Its highly intense and frantic most of the time split up periodically with platforming or cross genre segments. Bayonetta 2 went too far down the Devil May Cry path and was far too combat focused. I found myself wishing for some platforming or puzzle sequences. I haven't played part 3 but based on your arguments against the game, I'm sure it'll be great.

[@minecraftotalwar]

I really agree with you. Also he doesn't seem to know how to play the game, he talks about not being able to combo the enemies without using the demons, but that's a lie, we can combo them without witch time by using the new wink slave mechanic, witch is basically a powered up wicked weave

[@TheElectricUnderground]

my friend poop I could not disagree more with your take. There is no way Bayo has ever been close to too combat focused, the game is filled with tons of empty sections where you are walking around, doing mini sequences, watching cutscenes, or solving simple puzzles. None of which are interesting or engaging.

[@thenamesfable8257]

@@TheElectricUnderground Bro I've played Bayonetta so many times and if you truly think that it's not a combat focused game you are utterly delusional But let's see it has "moments where you walk around" Yeah you have to move the character from A to B, it's kinda a thing in video games my guy "Mini sequences" Bruh wtf does that even mean "mini sequences" fighting enemies? boss fights? Both of those include combat so I'm not sure what you're even talking about "Watching cutscenes" What is with this new trend of devaluing games because of some arbitrary and undefined limit to how many cutscenes it has Bayonetta 1 is a 9 hour game on average and it has 3 hours of cutscenes that means you spend twice the amount of time engaging in combat then you do watching cutscenes. That is objective "Solving puzzles" There are hardly any puzzles in the game my guy lol You have the whole "I'm so refined and cultured amongst all these casuals who just don't understand" pretentious vibe that mirrors your very hollow and opinionated criticism

[@alegomanYTPs]

how can a game be overrated when no ones played it?

[@magicjohnson3121]

I think the “character action” genre has been flawed since it’s inception (Devil May Cry on PS2). It was a combination of beatem up/exploration with adventure and rpg elements. It’s always annoying when you have to unlock a million moves or go through pace killing moments in this genre. That’s why I prefer beatem ups. You have all your moves at the start and it’s focused on the action. The Ninja Gaiden games are definitely the closest to this. Of course in this day and age that’s a no no because gamers prefer longer titles not short but replayable titles.

[@TheElectricUnderground]

absolutely magic I couldn't agree more. Character action as a genre is kind of like the prototype for what has become the western movie adventure action game formula but with some arcade roots, so it's always had sort of a split personality ha. I think Ninja gaiden 2 (and razer's edge to a lesser degree) did a great job in realizing the core of the genre and adjusting the level design to minimize all these uneven elements. This is why in DMC and Bayo the bloody palace and angel slayer modes are honestly better than the campaigns. Whereas in NG2 i actually have no issue playing through the campaign over and over (besides that damn jungle level, but we don't talk about that ha).

[@morkgin2459]

Actually hack and slash

[@SDub817]

This split between combat and exploration/gimmicks/puzzles in why I liked Musou and Basara games over character action games. The combat in them is not as deep, but I can at least enjoy myself without worrying about some goofy genre change or platforming section.

[@gelatogremlin]

10:26 what game is this

[@taters9722]

Noticed the astral chain gameplay clip. I hope they used bayonetta 3 as a springboard for astral chain 2. Game was really polished with really deep gameplay options. Thats why i didnt mind this particular take on bayonetta 3 lol. But youre right its def overhyped. Maybe this helena taylor stuff was a ruse lol

[@TheElectricUnderground]

Yeah I think astral chain 2 and bayo 3 will be super super close to each other. Like I say in the vid the line between the action rpg and Bayonetta 3 is very blurred. Also I think it would be interesting to credit platinum for playing 4d chess with the voice actor boycott ha, but I don't think they're that clever. Who knows though maybe they did let the story grow and grow before showing their winning hand, I could see that being possible

[@taters9722]

@@TheElectricUnderground haha i really only say its a ruse because theres no gain for her otherwise. And secondly, the games visuals are pretty terrible. Same with the ui, like health bars. Bare bones and almost like its a beta. Not sure why as bayo 2 looks amazing and they had plenty of time to optimize. Idk, something seems suspicious but i have no clue what

[@SoulBL4D3]

Funny enough when the first trailer for Bayo 3 released I thought it was Astral Chain 2 for sec until Bayo actually revealed herself

[@SDub817]

3:22 THANK YOU! I've been saying this about Bayo 1 for years.

[@huymaivan8671]

Well you miss one big point here, in DMC 5, V character cant attack the enemy himself, but in Bayonetta 3 you can summon it and line up its attack and then quit the summon immediately and jum in to attack enemy by yourself along with the summon still attacking there, it work just like swap weapon and combo but with a very big weapon for the summon case. You can see more detail about it here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/qaCqlZ9nebp3ecU

[@TheElectricUnderground]

yes for sure, it's not 1 to 1 the same, there are differences. But the overall style strikes me as really similar. Imagine if bayo could pop out a book and read to build meter XD. For me, the key difference is that V is a side character, and in bayo 3 summons are all throughout the whole game ha.

[@huymaivan8671]

@@TheElectricUnderground It's actually not similar, the Bayo 3 game encourage you to switch between summon and close combat, just like DMC game encourage player to switch weapon to do combo. And both game have penalty for using repeat over and over again. You 'll get hit alot if you using summon alone in the late game or boss battle

[@MikeTheGamer77]

@@huymaivan8671 Do you deny that Bayonetta 3 is heavily summon focused whereas the first two were definitely not?

[@antop4597]

@@MikeTheGamer77 Nope it's not heaily summon focused in the slightest. The game gives you the option to summon, doesn't force you to unless plot demands it. I barely even used my summons in fights, even against Rodin i didnt summon once.

[@huymaivan8671]

@@MikeTheGamer77 I just consider Bayonetta 3 's summon work just like another weapon or fighting style in DMC to me. We switch weapon and fighting style all the time, so it make no different if it's summon. People tend to angry at some thing new or creative which they cant get used too that's all. May be after a few months people 'll praise Bayo 3 just like how Bayo 1 get bad sale at first and now we all praise it

[@OpticalSorcerer]

It was pretty dissappointing, story-wise 1. This story pretty much ignores the angels/demons lore of the last two games, making this feel like a werid way to end a trilogy. 2. Jeanne died WAAAY to easy. 3. I'm happy with Luka's larger role and romance, but it's SUPER rushed and underdeveloped. 4. The multiverse route feels so out of place in my eyes. All in all, nothing from the previous games mattered, and it feels like a completely different franchise.

[@TheElectricUnderground]

Yeah they went hard on pushing the story this time. I was skipping as much as possible and still I had to sit through a bunch of multiverse talk ha. Since when did bayo have a multiverse? Maybe that was in the other games, but at least I could skip through them more

[@backster4744]

Have you played Bayonetta 2 by any chance? People and myself included would consider that the best out of all 3 games in the franchise. So it could be a nice game to get into if you haven't already. :)

[@RuV9999]

bayo 2 i think has the best gameplay feels.

[@TheElectricUnderground]

I have played bayo 2 but my memories of it are super hazy, i know it has a bunch of really lame level design as well (like all the running around sections) but I can't recall the specifics of the combat changes. I think it's much more like bayo 1 than 3 though in terms of combat.

[@dez87]

Most top players hate bayonetta 2 lmao

[@nomight273]

bayo 2 is terrible 3 is way better

[@tiagogomes513]

As someone who is really into bayo combat and has the 3 games, bayo 1 is the most responsive, bayo 2 feels a little tiny bit slippery and bayo 3 just doesnt feel like anything tbh

[@PiroKUSS]

2:06 this is said about so many games it's sick. No video game is ever perfect. 14:30 also true about mainstream games nowadays. Where did the daring attitude of the 90's and 00's go? It's irrelevant to the topic, but I don't give a fuck lol

[@TheElectricUnderground]

on 2:06, yeah the cult like devotion a lot of gamers have, especially towards mainstream properties, is unnerving. It actually makes open discourse and critique really difficult as you basically have to be prepared to get slammed in the comments section (which I have many times ha). on 14:30 this is such an interesting topic it def deserves its own video. Honestly I'm not totally sure for the deeper reasons, but 1 is that art itself is less respected overall. Being accepted is much more important that creating something great and iconic.

[@PiroKUSS]

@@TheElectricUnderground I think devotion goes both ways; there's a cultish attitude towards the obscure and different, as well as the mainstream. It indeed hinders proper discussion of videogames. This is especially shitty when debating about games as art. The mainstream will always try its best to please the masses, Indies have been the daring ones for a while, but this medium needs a mainstream developer to take a huge risk, and it proves to be interesting because a lot of folks look into them with curiosity and be exposed to new ideas and different ways of presenting them. I think mainstream games have turned into a very profitable and effective model, so companies don't need to change it. It's sad that profits are the goal now, and there's nothing wrong with making profits, since companies have to exist off of that, but that sacrifices a lot of creative freedom, since they have to please as many people as possible.

[@agreedboarart3188]

Bayo 1 will always be the best!

[@TheElectricUnderground]

At this rate, it absolutely looks that way ha.

[@2345Z]

Thoughts on Ultrakill?

[@nobodytonobodysbusiness]

This is why I love your channel - honesty.

[@TheElectricUnderground]

Thank you my friend! Yes, one of my goals is to be a reliable source of quality feedback, rather than just being another internet yes man.

[@dez87]

Nah he's just wrong

[@nobodytonobodysbusiness]

@@dez87 Thanks for the insight bruh. I'm off to play COD myself.

[@dez87]

@@nobodytonobodysbusiness have fun playing that trash

[@nobodytonobodysbusiness]

@@dez87 Glad you have the ability to spot sarcasm.

[@TheFly212]

Also, the game is being held back by the switch. FACTS. The first bayonetta was not held back at all. The 360 version was awesome. The PC version when it came out was stunning. But the devs said, fuck it and went for broke. The PS3 version of Bayonetta 1 is awful. But the devs didn't give a fuck, they went for broke it pushed the tech of that time. The same can not be said of ti's predecessors. Bayonetta 1 looks vastly better on PC than Bayonetta 3, even on a old as PC from Bayonetta 1's era. And the reason is because the switch is a weak ass system that uses a measly 4 core 1 Ghz CPU... Laughable even by 2017 standards. Let alone 2023. This needs to really be said. Bayonetta has sadly been curbed. It's had it's balls cut of the last 2 games. My biggest problem with nintendo is that they haven't done any real upgrades to the switch. The switch is over 6 years. Because it sold a bazillion units Nintendo is just okay resting on it's laurels and just keep shitty ass old tech. No, a average at best OLED screen, isn't a true upgrade. The cpu and GPU and ram need to vastly upgraded. I haven't played by switch since Bayonetta 3. And I don't plan to. The new zelda game LOOKS exactly the same as BOTW. Which I thought was overrated and tideous. But.... You know, I"m a old school zelda fan. Link to the Past was one of my first games I ever played. Open world Zelda trying to be skyrim or witcher 3 just didn't do it for me. I was surprised just how shitty Bayonneta 3 looked. It looks so bad. Especially if you put it on modern 4k tv. The switch has got to evolve. Or nintendo just needs a new home console all around. Bayonneta 3 looks bad. And so does Zelda Tears of the Kingdom. And the reason... There's only so much you can do with a tegra APU from 2015 and a cpu that has 4 cores and 1 ghz. To put that in perspective. The cheapest phone samsung has is a phone that has 4 cores at 3.1 Ghz max..... It's dirt cheap at 120 bucks. So you see why swtich games are visually and performance lame. They get vastly out classed by the lowest end smartphones lol. Tech matters. And in the case of bayonnetta I believe it actually hurt it's development and gameplay and vastly impacted it's presentation. The switch is becoming ancient as fuck. It's time for nintendo to move on.