Bayverse Masterpiece Transformers For Dummies

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Today the dummies assemble to discuss why the bayverse has risen in popularity among masterpiece collectors
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[@rothreviews2525]

Lockdown was the first one done by Unique Toys and that did pretty well. And he is not a G1 character

[@allenprime3213]

Roth Reviews I was gonna say that also

[@punchline1279]

Its weird how hes from animated

[@rothreviews2525]

@@punchline1279 Yeah, who would have thought they would take a character from there and put them in a live action movie

[@snitchbug]

Roth Reviews people seem to really love the bounty hunters in star wars, it just makes sense

[@diegodankquixote-wry3242]

Its almost as if g1 wasn't the only thing that people like in the franchise. 🤔

[@Nicks-Hobby-Shelves]

Definitely agree with a lot of points here. But for me personally, as one of those who is loving the movie verse styles figures right now and “grew up” on the bay verse. It comes down to accuracy and engineering. SO MANY companies haven’t been able to get certain G1 aesthetics right. But these third party companies with the movie designs? They are incredible accurate. And have crazy amounts of engineering involved to make a near perfect transformation. They are doing things that most companies haven’t been able to do, and it just happens to be the movie designs. “You like it, you win” is what I’m feeling.

[@Alzeal07]

I feel like you underestimate the impact These movies had on a lot of us. not every collector were around when g1 was a thing and many discovered the franchise through the movies and then discovered that there were more. I was a TF fan of the movies, then I discovered the Cybertron game and realised that this was not in the same universe of the movies but something else. then I discovered Prime etc and got back to g1. I now hate the movies for what they weren't, because I realised what the franchise can do thanks to the games, series and comics, as well as the g1 movie, but these designs, these characters are still my original Transformers. That's also a big reason why the movie Masterpieces, as well as the studio series line is working so well. It's also so different in aesthetic that the Toy experience is really different, and somewhat has less faux parts than the g1 cartoon style figures

[@erikw5]

I can’t blame these companies for trying something different. How many more versions of G1 Springer do we need?

[@mrheroprimes]

I try to stick the Transformers generations given that's the most consistent in slowly giving us more obscure characters.

[@supercanadaeh9483]

Its conversations like this that make me wish there was someone on the show who could represent the bayverse side of the fandom better. Sure, G1 will always sell, and the big 6 will always sell especially, but as someone who was among the generation that grew up with the 2008 film and its sequels, I can guarentee you that the main 6 arent the only ones people are after. Friends of mine who are into collecting are especially after the movie decepticons, as many of them have become very popular, such as blackout, barricade, nitro zeus, and even the bumblebee movie trio. As time goes on I wouldnt be surprised if bayverse material becomes even more prevalent, being that the KO and upscaled figures are selling like hotcakes right now, and in alot of cases (I can speak on behalf of this since I own a fair number of KO's and upscaled figures) that they're often better quality then many official figures for a cheaper price.

[@bosyber]

I have a friend who's super into the bayverse as well - she's a few years younger than me and my wife, a bit young for original G1, but got sucked in with beast wars, and loved the movie design complexity - she's not really buying expensive 3rd party (or masterpiece) much (spends money on cosplay outfit-fabric), but still - it's people like her that are a clear market IMO.

[@Newjourney14]

im not surprised, bobby is a biased reviewer. he's a staunch anti bayverse fan AND looks down constantly at people who like the bay verse.

[@joshuaromerogonzalez945]

@@Newjourney14 Bobby pretty much looks down on anything beyond G1. He despises Beast Wars for the same reason people love it

[@patrickkelsey7193]

I think you guys overestimate the amount of geewunners in the fandom. I believe there’s a big portion of us that really like the movies or the bayverse aesthetic, but the reason why it may not be as successful it might come down to age. The G1 fans that grew up with the characters are in their 40s, probably people that have advanced in their careers and have disposable income, how many people in their 20s are in that same situation? Maybe most of them will be able to go and buy the main characters, maybe even the guys from the first film, but they won’t have the money for everything. And, usually the fans of the films also like other pieces of media (like G1), so they might rather go for a big character of another place than a background character pf bayverse.

[@mrheroprimes]

as someone who grew up in the early 2000s, so I'm kind of have an attachment to say the Unicron Trilogy/Universe 1.0 / 2.0 characters (I was also exposed to the first season of Transformers Generation 1 through video cassettes that we borrowed from a local video rental place, as well as the original Transformers Generation 1 movie). I've also gotten my hands on some high-end figures from the Transformers collectors club, and then there elita-1 and her team from the search for Alpha Trion

[@directorscarlett1932]

I believe that people are buying Bay-verse Mp's for the same reasons you'd by G1 Mp's; Nostalgia and importance to the buyer. To say that you buy G1 because it was a good show is the nostalgia talking. If one goes back and rewatch G1 today, they'll find it doesn't hold up. Don't get me wrong, I love G1, but I can't objectively call it well made. But it means a lot to you guys, which is awesome for you. I'm 18 years old and the first movie was what got me into the franchise, so it means a lot to me. Were the movies good? Hell no! But for a long time in my life, those ugly, jagged designs were what the Transformers looked like to me. People a few years older than me would have grown up with the Unicron Trilogy as the Transformers. Those younger than me would have been introduced through Prime, or maybe even RiD(2015). G1 is more iconic and is better ingrained in pop culture, but it still isn't the best of the franchise (which is probably IDW and/or Prime). I mean, how well known is the Adam West Batman series compared to Killing Joke? I'm a huge fan of Doctor Who, but the masses only think of the older series, despite most of the new stuff being objectively better. I'm not trying to bash G1. Like I said, I love it and it's the foundation for nearly everything in Transformers.

[@nickw3132]

I’m also 18 years old and I agree 100 percent. G1 definitely does not hold up and yes their are good episodes that do but show wise it definitely comes off as a toy commercial. Don’t get me wrong tho, I LOVE the movie (1986). And bayverse was my introduction too, I never understood the problems until I got older. Now that I’m 18 my favorite version of the transformers are IDW and transformers Prime. And to me, transformers prime is the best written transformers show that G1 fans don’t want to admit, it’s way better. And also, about u being 18, i would like to invite u to a group chat with 4 other guys counting myself and we are all teenagers. Basically we discuss transformers collecting and collecting in General while also discussing transformers shows, figures, and more. And since we are all teenagers it’s fun to have guys our age that also collect. I would love for u to join if ur interested.

[@fernandoflores3161]

I buy MP Bayformers because they look cool!

[@toomanylies7716]

The Dreamwave and IDW comics gave new life to the G1 characters as well, and gave a lot of us who watched the cartoon a new, and even better life for those characters.

[@barvey5671]

NickW 313 Id certainly be interested, I’m 17 and similarly grew up with bay verse and prime, would certainly be good to talk to some people with the same interests for once

[@kaelthulu056]

NickW 313 honestly I loved the movie design, I believe all transformers is good, cause at the end of the day they are just a product for kids, I just find it annoying that everything has to always end up looking like g1, because of those hardcore fans that just won’t shut their mouths about it, also could I be added into this group? I’d love to discuss with other people about collecting, I’m 19 btw

[@-SecretAsianMan-]

Ooooo I love your guys' opinions on what's iconic in G1, but I gotta BIG disagree on what's iconic in the Bayverse. As was hinted at, a whole nother generation of fans grew up with the Bay movies, and I would say that plenty of characters from the first 3 movies especially are iconic without direct connections to their G1 namesakes. To those fans, figures of all the 07 Decepticons (incl. Blackout, Brawl, Barricade, not of the Iconic 6) or lots of others (Sideswipe, Sentinel, ROTF Devastator, maybe a new Barricade) would drive a large part of the fanbase crazy. Don't forget that Newage is doing a DOTM Soundwave, and BombusBee or whatever they're called is doing Devastator. And while yes, the Bay Autobots are all echoes of who they were in G1, you gotta remember that kids watching the movie liked the character and remembered him before even knowing what G1 *was*. I would say y'all are missing out on one very important thing when it comes to the Bayverse market, and that is unfortunately... Takara KO's. With G1, there's a lot of room for interpretation from the OG cartoon, right? Hyper toon accurate, old CHUG, Siege, anywhere in between all those in terms of style. So, the 3P market really goes in because it delivers things that Takara *hasn't been able to give* to one fan or the other. I would say it's easy to see someone not liking either MP G1 Bumblebee, and hunting for their 3rd option, for example. However, the MPMs only have one aesthetic to capture, and have actually done a pretty great job of capturing it for all the bots that have come out so far. From personal experience and lurking TFW, though, I could say the reason why you don't see massive resale value on a lot of MPMs is the KO market works so quickly in fixing all the headache issues in new MPMs (the problem Bay fans have with MPM Ironhide is QC, not aesthetics), and coming out like 5 months after the real thing. There's also upscaled Studio Series, some of which look pretty great next to MPMs and are even cheaper than MPM KOs. Last thing I can think of that y'all didn't mention is the Chinese market. Holy carp is Bayverse popular in China and a lot of other Asian fanbases - there is a GIGANTIC market for Bayverse there, but it's also in places where purchasing power is lower and where KOs are basically the perfect solution to those buyers. Ey again, I look forward to all your discussions every week, you guys are basically the only back-and-forth discussion of TF collecting I follow. It only makes me wish that one of you was more into Bayverse, so I could hear more opinions on that as well!

[@Levi_52_336]

I to am of the TFWs, and I agree that the iconic six doesn't apply to the movies. Many of the new "3P" figures are S tier in engineering and quality, blowing the minds of so many people. So many characters with interesting designs are getting near perfect figures right away, unlike with G1 in which theres a mentality of "I'll wait for Fans Toys" or "this should be better". You can do most things the films and I'd probably sell better than some things in G1, given that a lot if these figures are ceaper than their G1 counterparts and or are more interesting and bring something to the table.

[@toomanylies7716]

Good points.

[@daltonwilliams1723]

I don’t really know what they’re talking about. There are plenty of cool bay designs companies can throw money at. Why is it plausible these companies put out the huge combiners made of characters with no personality, but bayverse characters that weren’t prominent would be unsellable? G1 fans have more than set a precedent for people not caring much about the actual characters and buying expensive figures of them because of their designs or nostalgia. Blackout and barricade are huge fan-favorites and have even appeared in other series like siege and animated.

[@supercanadaeh9483]

You took the words right out of my mouth, errr, keyboard

[@bosyber]

@@supercanadaeh9483 Because they are (like me) older than that, I think. I do see (a bit like how star wars prequel fans are now adults) how people like you who grew up with that have that connection. I agree there are good designs, though most of them are intentionally complex (too much, for me) and so are hard to get done right. I agree, some of those recent 3rd party designs are amazing bits of engineering - that's the bit that catches my eye, as that's the thing where I fell in love with Transformers (but, also why I much prefer the earlier masterpiece over current ones - I do not want 'super simple', I want complex, but still elegant, and transformable/playable - doing that right is my holy grail, which is one reason I tend to like MMC for example ;)

[@XSwordStoneX]

The time is up for G1 MP Long live MP Bayformers

[@RBrown803]

Skullface, your point about Sentinel Prime is spot on. Outside of the iconic six, that'd be an MPM I'd throw money at. My thoughts are that figures released in the SS line are contenders for the MPM treatment. Gunface is a close second.

[@je2bot298]

Really left field assumption here. Could the boom in MPM styled releases from third parties just be another reason to flex their muscles on an engineering aspect? I just remembered when I was younger at how much the designs of the robots in the 2007 movie were mind blowing at the time, and the toys they released in conjuction were less than thrilling. Maybe toy designers today felt the same way and decided to give it a go since they now have the knowledge, experience and resources that they didn't have more than a decade ago to pull it off. Not saying creating accurate g1 characters isn't a challenge, but maybe they just want to really show how good they are by pulling off something almost impossible (at the time) - like Knight Prime, or Lockdown.

[@Autarkis01]

I spend a lot of time in China, Singapore, and other spots in Southeast Asia. Transformers are far more popular there among the younger 20-somethings than they currently are in the U.S. with the same demographic. The most popular Transformers generation, by far, in China, Singapore, Malaysia, and other markets with the money to drive the industry, are the are the Bayverse movies. As hard as it may be to accept, the current high-end Transformers drive is coming from Asia, more than from the U.S. There is a reason that Bayverse movies like AOE saw a pivot to Chinese locations and product advertising.

[@gamorg]

Bayverve gave us that Lockdown, pure awesomeness

[@Xsis_Vorok]

The Cybertron scene from Bee is how the Transformers should of looked like in the Bayverse if Hollywood wanted to bring in old G1 fans, introduce the franchise to today's kids, and update the ascetics for a more modern look. You're not slapping old fans in the face, you're not alienating today's kids (by not making them look at dad's old lame toys), and you still get the merchandising without recycling the 80s stuff. Anyways, an other great conversation.

[@elpatron6537]

This wont stop me from liking and buying mpm figures... I just like them because I grew up with bayformers. Dont get it why people cant accept that

[@AveryAccord]

I'm not a bayverse fan at all. But these characters grew on me from watching the movies so much and detailed figures get released then you get one and then another and you know how it goes.

[@AviLlaJohWil]

I'm happy they are doing the Movie Designs. Ik alot of ppl don't like the esthetic; the designs, but I personally love the designs. I like highly detailed models with alot of bits and pieces creating a form, in a sense, and these characters fit that perfectly for me. Megatron out of all the designs being my favorite designs within this universe. I got problems with the films, like how they're always focused around the humans and the stories make little sense when trying to tell one big story, and dont get me started on "Murder Prime" and the lack of Megatron within that series, but I do still get some enjoyment out of them. Out of the films they put out the 2007 film and Dark Of The Moon are my absolute favorite, although I really enjoyed Lockdown in Age Of Extinction. I did like Galvatron's design, but that didnt scream Galvatron to me. Should've been someone else or hell just call him Megatron but have them labeled it as a random KSI Drone name.

[@maxmocs5008]

I think perhaps that there's a selling point in how these figures are engineered. You never mention how the 3p company currently MOST invested in the Bayverse is Unique toys and their sister, DX9. These companies are both working significantly outside of the MPM threshold by focusing on AOE and TLK designs. Hasbro's toylines for AOE and TLK were sub-par at best, so UT releasing black-magic heavy redesigns of those characters would be a dream come true for the fans who like those designs, and even collectors who where disappointment by Hasbro's toylines. I don't care much about TLK designs, but I love all of what UT does, and I'll probably buy Peru Kill. This is not because I like the characters, or because of nostalgia, but because I appreciate and respect how well executed and designed these figures are. Similarly, Toy World's Shatter appeals to me not because I like her, but because the company has engineered a seemingly impossible triple changer. Also, I think you're overestimating the extent companies are doing bayformer stuff. Both Zeta and Newage are still primarily in the G1 business. Takara feels the need to market their movie stuff under MPM, instead of the main MP line like they are with Beast Wars. And Weijang mostly does upscales, so they'll naturally be making a lot of the SS because SS is popular.

[@basicfacekick]

That nostalgia shift is a great observation. It happened with the Star Wars prequels too. When those films came out, they were largely panned by die-hard fans of the original trilogy. Now that the *sequel* trilogy is out, more fans are looking back at the prequels and seeing them as awkwardly charming. With the TF franchise having distance from the Bayverse films, it seems they're also being regarded more fondly as well.

[@Chase4032]

Honestly I think it’s just over-saturation of the G1 market. I mean, look at how many companies are doing a MP scaled Menasor. Or the Springer Wars, etc. It seems like every single time a company reveals a new G1 MP figure, here comes another company doing the exact same character (I’m looking at you FansToys). When the customer base is split so often, it’s hard to blame these companies for looking at other potential sources of revenue.

[@VAULT-TEC_INC.]

Soundwave’s top half was okay, but his THICC thighs bug the crap out of me. I didn’t notice not until I saw the 3A statue.

[@alejandrorodriguez2058]

Great points. Totally agree. Would like to hear more from Laura in future episodes. She has an interesting view from someone who has a foot in and a foot out the collecting game. Cheers

[@botindisguys6531]

The Bay-verse is far from perfect. But for me, it was a return to an era when I was a child that showed updated versions of characters I loved as a child. Particularly for Prime his design improved and maxed out with AoE and TLK until Travis Knights Prime in Bee cake to be where a real and true G1-esk design was given. I still think we need “Official” Masterpieces to complete the G1 collection, but as we all know business is business and what the masses buy is what the businesses will provide.

[@ahchiu9]

3:58 - I honestly don't understand why resale value keeps coming into the conversation. Whether it's 3P or official (or KO if you want), the companies really don't care about tanking the resale value of an older piece or if the resale value of a newer piece is high or not. They don't see a penny of that either way. The only way for them to track any sort of success is with the initial sale

[@halieus56]

The live action movies did really well over seas. China may be the driving force for this demand and we're just in for the ride.

[@EvilCerealBoX]

Yeah this. China loved bayverse waaaaaay too much.

[@rjohnson80100]

Problem with the MPM series is there are dolled up oversized CHUGS. I think another reason why Bumbleebee was popular is that it takes place in the G1 timeline. 80's

[@D0nnyB0y]

A proper MP Shatter and Dropkick would sell, for sure, and I think Hound, Drift, and Crosshairs would find an audience somewhere.

[@HeyItzJD]

Now that we're a few years removed from the last Bayverse movie, and like 13 years from the original 2007 movie I think it's easier for a lot of G1 fans to appreciate the designs. The bayverse bots are singular designs and the engineering involved are so intricate. I own a bunch of Weijiang, Unique Toys, Black Mamba bayverse bots because they're so excellently done.

[@TripChebook]

I'm just waiting for a birth of a new Beast Era.

[@jordanharrington1890]

G1 was in the EIGHTIES, CAN WE GET OUT OF THE EIGHTIES PLEASE!?!?!?

[@JoeSmithGOAT]

People from the '80s are still stuck there and everything that came after is automatically trash Which is BIG LOL

[@99tgstang]

IDK, I'm digging the the Toy World Freedom Leader figure. I'm was not alive when G1 was new, but I remember the reruns and watching Beast Wars (BW was the first TF show that I ever watched) so my demand for screen accuracy is not that high as others. I'm more drawn to figures that are G1 inspired, but with a real world take on the bot and altmode. If the companies follow Toy World with the washes and distressed look, and keep the G1 inspired looks I think they will do really well. Might get be back into collecting again.

[@michaeldort7069]

Can we get some masterpiece Transformers Prime figures? That would be cool

[@Magnis501]

I know I'm in the minority but I did enjoy the movies for the most part Lockdown was pretty cool too. I just look at is as a different version of the story for transformers. I try not to get too tied down in nostalgia and take things for what they are. Bayverse wasnt a story to me it was a good set of action flicks and I like some of looks for the bots too. I dont like all the 80s cartoon screen accurate toys they are boring. I prefer the ones that have nods to the old design but a modern look. Like generation toys stuff. My opinion but I think we all get way too attached to nostalgia and that's not a great place to be in my opinion and if we only wanted those movies to look and feel like the 80s cartoon we'd have wound up with nonsense like scale wars. At no point in time should the constructicons tried to form Devy while hitching a ride inside Astrotrain.

[@nestronicalnet7620]

For whatever reason I almost convinced myself to start collecting masterpiece movie stuff.

[@johnn.3291]

I think a character that isn’t in G1 that could be successful is Crosshairs. Super cool and so different from the others I think he could carry his own film. Engineering his jacket into a real figure I imagine would be very difficult though.

[@aaronmauer7225]

What makes someone human isn’t what they look like. Make the transformers the main characters and have the transformers have human characteristics and flaws

[@shawnmartens9711]

In the first episodes of the cartoon it was Hound and Spike, which I preferred to Spike and Bee.

[@tiger-_-stripe7170]

You guys maybe on to something. Maybe they keep doing the 6 is because every time they kill Optimus to make room for more characters it never works out. Poor Hot Rod 😢

[@megaskully6709]

honestly I do agree there may not be room for MP scaled bayverse stuff, they're usually more expensive if you don't go with tarkara (at least when it first started) and while there are some figures in that scale that are pretty good like unique toys stuff and dx9's hot rod there's a lot more figures that are just bad like alien attack or Devil Savior's devastaor. HOWEVER I think the CHUG scale shows promise there, yeah there could be an argument about saturation with the studio series line but I don't know I would trade my ss grimlock for one that actually has a finished dino mode made by a third party or maybe make characters more movie accurate like the bumblebee movie characters

[@GostRidrNomad]

To be honest. I do like this personality representation of Bee. The kick ass fighter. Also the part that he’s a bigger bot. Don’t like the bayverse design of bot form. I’m torn. Ahh.

[@WaywardTraveler77]

I am not a big fan of the Bayverse stuff as far as toys go, but That ToyWorld prime is awesome and I love mine.

[@M_Alex]

I think that 3P is a bit desperate because the market is smaller know than it used to be. You had some people stop collecting because they grew bored with it, or because they were fed up with subpar products at premium prices (or QC issues, etc). Also, the G1 3p market became dominated by several key players: FT, XTB (who would've thunk it!?), Zeta, Ocular Max, and DX9. So after some companies (DX9/unique toys, whichever did the Bayverse Lockdown) showed that you can sell a Bayverse figure a lot of people jumped the boat, hoping that it will sell better. I don't think it does, as I don't think that Bayverse fans whose first experience with TFs was through those movies are as strongly drawn to collecting (though this is just conjecture, maybe the Bayverse stuff actually sells well...)

[@ifanthanese]

G1... Beast Wars... bayverse... Beyond... IDGAF about where it's from I collect good toys. Does it have all mode that's accurate? Is the transformation fun and intuitive? What about the sculpt diecast and paint? Articulation? Gimmicks? Does it fit in with the rest of the collection? That's what I care about. Unique toys first offering for their movie line was lockdown. And their third was hot rod as a joint venture with dx9. So far they have made for movie characters and only two of them are what you would consider main characters. Some of the best engineering that I have seen in decades is because of the bay verse movie toys. Yes the movies were crap. But so was G1. There are enough animation errors in G1 to make a movie. G whiners care more about a cartoon then the animators who made it. I guess your next one is going to be about third-party mpb stores because that's a thing as well. Also I believe that some of these companies are doing it for the challenge. They got tired of making squares into rectangles like the engineering for any fans toys G1 figure. That's why fans toys makes their stuff so complicated because it's simply taking a box and turning it into a different box. There's very little Contours very little asymmetrical shapes. Go play with dx9 LA hire and tell me that that is a bad toy. Go play with unique toys Dragoon. If you place them up against any version of the same character from G1 they win. The sculpt the paint the articulation the engineering it's freaking witchcraft. I really wish that people would stop judging toys based off of what it's from and only accept the toy on its own merits. You would have a grander appreciation for Transformers because the motto is still till all are one.

[@maxmocs5008]

I think there are some ways to make a complicated G1 transformation work, MP-36 for example, but otherwise, I agree. The engineering on the stuff UT makes is amazing, and that actually sells the figures to more to me than nostalgia. These figures are pulling off things that HasTak can't or won't and I think that's why they're selling.

[@tindiep1862]

Human connections with an Alien...like the Flight of the Navigator? It works! Besides, it was actually the Bayverse that got me interested in Transformers again...even though the sequels to 2007 movie suck.

[@BrumansVideos]

Alien Attack was actually Keith, heh. Not sure what designer he used (598Robots, KFC-guy, etc), or if it was a new designer.

[@countypoe1644]

MPM-6 Ironhide IS SO bad and so frustrating to transform, I gave the figure to my 4 year old grandson to tear the crap out of. It is sooo bad. It doesn’t even look or stand right without an additional $40-$50 DNA add on kit for stabilization of the shoulders. He was my one and only toe dipped in the bayverse pond (so to speak).

[@rvoers1]

It seems like Weijiang/Back Apple are making a modified version of the mpm-06 will all the problems fixed. Seems promising, but it has been a while since we heard anything about it...

[@edeff1119]

There is an oversize KO with upgrades, lights and retools. Wie Jiang? Not hateful. Better than the Takara for sure...

[@tfuniverse1651]

County Poe I have MPM06 and I argee he’s not a good figure in robot mode without that upgrade kit that holds him together.

[@tfuniverse1651]

Ruud van Oers Apparently it’s supposed to come out in the summer time but that may have changed with how things.

[@rvoers1]

@@tfuniverse1651 Aah I see, thanks for the info!

[@edeff1119]

Excellent discussion. From a G1 collector who also wanted to love the Bay movies. I agree with you all. I collected many movie figures but was always discouraged by the various differences in size. Im a stickler when it comes to a tiny jet next to a giant truck. So Ive culled my display to a few choice Movie figures. Mostly oversize KOs. (Sorry Bobby, I know how you feel about 4P) I am actively looking at Bee Movie Bee from Zeta and TE. Honestly I'll buy an OS KO if produced. The TE looks almost Deluxe size? My movie collection is much smaller than my season 1-3 G1 Masterpiece collection. And as much as the Bee redesigns are much more appealing than Bayverse "bags of nails" designs, Ive already invested in them. Unless something transformative really changes my mind...

[@mikekz4489]

Third-party is the way to go for MP movie Transformers. Like with G1, it is going to be slow going from Takara-tomy. The two cars that DX9 made, gun head and Hot Rod, while not my style, are great looking. I kinda wish I had the money to spend on Hot Rod. I'd like to see a third-party company make their own Starscream. The upcoming one from Takara-tomy doesn't look much better that their best leader class main line toy. Lots of undercarriage kibble in jet mode. It would be cool if someone else made a sleeker jet mode. That robot mode is designed to be a folded up jet with legs and arms that pop out. Why is there still so much kibble?

[@ahchiu9]

9:09 - Outside of the season 1 cast, Lockdown would sell (look at Perukill and the 3-4 KO's that it has spawned). Other potential sellers (but not as popular as Lockdown) might be Drift or Crosshairs. Maybe Barricade. The Wreckers would be a fun crew, but they didn't make enough impact in the movies for an MPM to sell..

[@Fenrek]

The market is just moving on. Whether you like it or not, you cannot deny the fact that those movies rejuvenated the whole franchise for a new generation and you probably wouldn't have the size pool of products or the size of the community we currently have without them. I can without a doubt say that the bayverse movies are pretty crap overal but I really do like the designs for the majority of the robots. G1 is here every single year with official masterpiece releases, dominates a lot of the 3P market and the mainline figures hasbro puts out too. I just find it hilarious where if there's a break like this in the never ending storm of G1 products for the smaller groups within the larger Transformers community to have products (Beast Wars and Movieverse right now as prime examples) the radical geewunners throw a fit and I say the radical ones in the sense of "G1 is life, everything else is garbage and to make products from those lines is the worst thing ever!" those nutters. I'm not someone who dislikes G1 either, I actually really like it and pretty much all the different universes/styles and such within the whole Transformers franchise but to those 'geewunners', you're still getting your G1 fix and always will, just now it's time for the other areas to get attention too. (Edit: More of my 2 cents on my own experience with the greater community outside of just this video on this particular topic. I understand the guys here aren't complaining but my comment still stands.🙂)

[@collyman445]

This wasnt a video complaining about the situation, but more of analysis of how the market is changing right now because of both G1 and bayverse nostalgia as well as the g1 well drying up, these guys weren't complaining they were just looking at how the market is changing

[@Fenrek]

@@collyman445 I guess this is more of a comment on the overal taste of how things are changing in the greater community outside of this video whilst also acknowledging with them that things are indeed changing 🙂 Just my 2 cents of sorts.

[@gambit77]

I will say that it did not 'revigorate' the franchise by doing something new. The Bay-verse movies were carried primarily by G1 fans that was hoping to see their favorite franchise come to life and in turn alot of us brought our kids and or significant others who may not had that strong of a tie with Transformers along. The movies started dying off because we 'Gwunnerers' got tired of our expectations being subverted after the second movie. People who talk like G1 fans hold back the franchise is laughable. Hasbro tried to move away from G1 numerous times and the support isn't there. That's why Beast Hunter's never took off or the Beast wars inspired Generations line. The fact is that any company who hopes to make a profitable line needs a vehicle to promote that line. The original G1 fans that are in their 40s, mid to late 30s like myself was programmed to love these characters by the cartoon. The cartoon gave a reason for these characters to exist and hence the need for use to have a toy representation of those characters. If people want to complain about the franchise sticking to G1 that's fine but don't blame the G1 fans who vote with their wallets. Blame Hasbro for not making an interesting new story with new characters that click with a new generation. There's a reason that earthrise exist and I don't even buy the retail stuff anymore. It because G1 still drives the market and if anyone doesn't like it either become a writer and make new stories and characters for Hasbro or wait for us 'Gwunnerers' to kick the bucket and then you can have the franchise to yourself.

[@collyman445]

@@Fenrekyeah, thats cool

[@Fenrek]

@@gambit77 I never stated that G1 "fans hold the franchise back" as my point was more the reactions I've seen in my time of many Geewunners complaining when companies go for more of the movie-verse designs even though there's already a sea of, and will always be a continual stream of, G1 based products. You missed my point completely.

[@TrypticOwen]

Loads of 'Bee's and Primes because they make sense as a one-off purchase rather than a collection. Eight years post-Lambor and G1MP collectors can't get a Trailbreaker or a Gears (not from Takara, anyway) so BW collectors should not expect to get a Terrorsaur from them and Bayformers fans certainly shouldn't expect to get a Crosshairs... If they won't finish; why should I consider starting?...

[@kalron27]

The first Bay TF film was OK but I didn't really care for the designs or characterization. After that it was all down hill for this G1 guy. However, I've since picked up the Prime and Megatron Studio Series releases just to have them in my Prime\Megs collections. But outside of those one offs I'm not into anything else including the more G1 looking BB Movie designs. It's not going to last and hopefully 3rd party will return to finishing off unreleased characters for MP collectors.

[@fernandoflores3161]

I think your view is biased, maybe you need a Bayverse fan / collector in your team in order to have a more balanced discussion / conversation about the topic.

[@endman105]

I actually grew up with the bayformers. They are the transformers I grew up with. Yea the movies after the first one just got worse and WORSE but I love it. It's like the star wars prequels. Theyre so bad. They're good

[@suprasport9118]

I mean I think is a step in the right direction. I definitely think Bay Transformers are not bad! Just different. I hope they can do another movie showing the G1 stuff. You should do a video on that new Takara Arcee. As always Great video.

[@shaefranklin7753]

whether or not you like the bay movies, you cant deny that it brought in all new fans of the transformers franchise, like me, the bay movies are what got me into transformers, i personally like all the bay movies, but you cant deny that they brought in new fans

[@piotrm6278]

It isnt like I love bumblebee movie, but I love the figures. On other hand I think Bayverse is making now all of the series, movies going out. When was the last time there was so many Transformers series, movies going out? Im not sure about the IDW, just ordered the comic book recently, but heard its awesome, dont you think that IDW will be entering soon?

[@patrickcuddy4065]

The Fallen masterpiece could be successful

[@ChrisMunoz]

Personally I just like any transforming robot toys. I am very much impartial to the movies. You would be surprised the quantity of Transformers fans who prefer movie verse over everything else. To the extent of the G1ers. It’s exactly the same as some Star Wars fans who are totally dedicated to the prequel‘s now vs Those dedicated to the original trilogy. What really seems to matter is what you grow up with.

[@RTsunami23]

I kinda agree with Jisk on this one. Example: I love Batman, but hate that Batman Ninja that Animated movie. Story was trash. I would not buy that figure, statue, etc. because it would be a constant reminder of how bad it was. I almost bought that 3A Optimus, it’s nice, but it’s just a brief representation.

[@JoeSmithGOAT]

Of the 4 You connected with the 1 that didn't really contribute anything to this conversation

[@Rad_Crab]

Idk, I think Bumblebee is leagues better than the other Bayverse films including the first one. I'm not saying it's a great film on its own, but it's definitely the best of the lot so far as far as Transformers is concerned.

[@bens1723]

Barricaded is the only non g1 character that is really good from the movies.

[@Lawtann2]

I think Shatter was a great character, she had the most personality outside of Sentinal Prime. But otherwise the Cons were boring

[@mark4flair376]

GEEEEEEEWOOOOOON!

[@josemers6324]

I think the movie figures should be exclusives in these 3rd party companies. I honestly think the only one sticking to G1 is Fans Toys. Everyone is competing with each other. Honestly if I were them they have a huge TF verse each one should perfect them.

[@impossiblepie]

The five minutes show g1 transformers....except for bumblebee!!! Lol

[@user-ow3du3po8g]

Weijiang's MPM Prime is really fuckin cool tho

[@brennanramos3019]

I like the bay verse stuff

[@nickw3132]

Hasbro announced a transformers animated movie.

[@nachoprime9649]

I dont get your point, Hotrod, Lockdown, and dino were 3 of the first bay figures ever released and they sold great.

[@MythsAndHeroes]

Yep. And compare that to the amount of primes and bees and watch the field adapt and follow the money. Prime and bee. Very simple.

[@nachoprime9649]

@@MythsAndHeroes I agree that I'm sure prime and bees will come flowing in but it seemed in the video you were saying the only reason they were moving to bay was to milk the cashcows despite the first releases being somewhat obscure with even that tank dude that had like 6 seconds of screentime in the last knight getting a release early on.

[@givemeasniff788]

I feel like at this point what else can you do with g1 I'm pretty sure they've done all the characters like if another company revealed another mp style jazz I wouldn't care because it's been done and like the bay films or not there is a big fan base for them and this can go for the unicorn trilogy and Beast Wars stuff basically just branching out.

[@iamtheomnimonkey]

G1 is 90% done in MP but we still don't have a G1 MP Predaking set, Defensor set, Sky Linx, several Head Masters and Target Masters, Runabout and Runamuck, Punch/Counter Punch, Throttle Bots, Alita One and her fem bots, etc....

[@VAULT-TEC_INC.]

New Skully t-shirt: “Your Bayverse Shelf is Trash.” More masterpiece ANIMATED and TF: PRIME figures please! Prime was the best modern incarnation of Soundwave yet.

[@JoeSmithGOAT]

Maybe EVER

[@bruhdiconwassi5074]

Hell yeah, Sentinel Prime love

[@alc4528]

I feel like bumblebee is just like endgame. They both had a 5 minute long scene that makes everyone think the whole movie was amazing.

[@kingragnork]

Infinity War was much much better than Endgame, the stakes just weren't there despite what they were saying onscreen. IW really felt like a constant losing battle, a war of attrition.

[@maxmocs5008]

At least the all the characters in Endgame didn't have their mentalities reduced to that of a 3-year old for 80% of the film.

[@Alex876]

they are making animated movie i hear

[@ArionRDAW]

Some are forgetting how far back those "four seasons" were. For some fans, the Bayverse is the ONLY Transformers they know. On a sidenote, there is a very well done video on Facebook that edited those first 5 minutes of the Bumblebee movie with G1 sound effects, voices and music (Season 1 and Season 3). Google "M.A.P Film Productions - Bumblebee G1 Style Facebook" and you'll find it.

[@fabiano4931]

Why do you want even g1 toys we are getting like 10 g1 primes a year and you are complaining. And how many times do you want to see g1 toys 40 years ? Like move on holy f*ck

[@Zx-ci6uo]

I've been watching your videos for a while. It did get to me thinking why you never talk about bayverse. Finally you do, but it is quite obvious the whole panel are only fixated on g1. Should just stick to g1 talk. Not interested coming back to this channel...

[@ismaelreyna5399]

I think Jisk could have been taken out and zero contributions to the conversation would have been lost. That's the kind of blatant fanboy reaction you'd expect here in the comments. Also, "I think it all comes down to money" has been the MO since before the beginning.

[@Mechanic618]

01:09 I love you, Jisk

[@edpistemic]

I don't see how they could sell one representation from each Bayverse movie because they all look so similar.

[@myoldhandlewasmadewheniwas9]

Megatron is vastly different, Bumblebee has his different car modes, the different shapes between the older cars and new ones, him and Prime both have those abs from DOTM and their very different 4 and 5 designs

[@collyman445]

Phew, I thought I was the only person who didn't like the bee movie

[@comicbookfangaming9733]

nostalgia can only go so far I didn't like bubble because it felt like a remake of the first Transformers film and the problem is about Transformers you don't want to send around the human characters 90% of the time I want the Transformers Be the star of the film and if I can't have that then I'm not going to pay money on these films It's like saying what's have Agents of Shield be the star of The Avengers f*** that s*** I would rather not go see that film I want to see The Avengers or new avengers They're doing the same thing what Disney did to Star Wars (ep7-9)

[@Skipray_Blastboat]

Bumblebee is just as bad as the Michael Bay movies if not worse, fight me!

[@JoeSmithGOAT]

And all are just as bad as the '86 movie People keep putting it at such a pedestal when in reality the '86 movie is a glorified TF episode 🤣

[@HashbrownMashup]

Keep in mind that the people who were 8-10 in 2007 also grew up with Classics, so us "new blood" tend to have a pretty big hard-on for the "updated G1" vibe moreso than the toon aesthetic, which BB hit the nail on the head with. I mean the fact of the matter is that hyper-toon-accuracy will always be extremely esoteric whereas the BB designs just look... _cool._ Even to any joe schmoe off the street.

[@user-qo1os3tc2j]

I❤️TF。

[@Youwillnotlikemyopinion]

Got to love Jisk, the mans opening statement was perfection, I'm sorry but the bay films are garbage, the plot holes are insane and some designs weren't much better. Sadly companies produce what sells so the bayverse stuff will keep coming.

[@JoeSmithGOAT]

And with that said, people excuse the '86 movie and the early g1 series and act like it's some sort of cinematic feat. LOL

[@anthonycourt7977]

G1 is not the best bumblebee an prime are over saturated plus 3p and hasbro have fallen since all companies went to the g1 mp route. There is no art our creativity anymore in 3p or hasbro since all were is copies of g1 figures.

[@kobalt8845]

At a certain point people who grew up with G1 need to accept that there are representations that arnt G1. Its okay to have a different representation of what transformers can be and step away from the idea that any design/movie that isnt directly tied to the cartoon 35 years ago. Im 22 and i grew up watching armada, cybertron and energon as well as the bayverse stuff. I dont have any nostolgia for the original g1 cartoon. I appreciate and respect for sure but is 100% flawed and in my opinion not something to set an entire standard by. Im frustrated that the mainline of hasbro transformers are all g1 and almost never branch out from it and im tired of seeing any new ideas/designs/representations get shot down because they dont follow the holy bible of generation 1. Not saying that bayverse movies are good but neither is most of transformers fiction if were being honest lol

[@iamtheomnimonkey]

What???? Mainline hasn't been G1 until seige/esrthrise. We have never had truly G1 cartoon looking mainline toys until now.

[@maxmocs5008]

@@iamtheomnimonkey Not really. Siege and Earthrise are just the first Hasbro Mainlines to openly steal G1-style designs. Classics, Universe and the other preceding Generation lines have had different designs, but they've always had the same blocky proportions and G1 color schemes.

[@tfcollect2690]

I totally disagree. Sorry guys. But the reason Has/Tak is doing the MpM movie masterpieces is due to the fact that they are trying to take back the larger transformers market. Third party companies has cornered that market for some time and not only are they controlling that market. They are coming up with costomized and original molds of movie characters that even Michael Bay thought would be impossible to recreate. Its a big market and tons of money is being made. As far as the Bayverse. Its a high market seller. Has/Tak had to acknowlege. That is why they came out with STUDIO SERIES. G1 fans are small in comparison to this generation of Transformers fans. When speaking "What everybody wanted" in regards to the Bumblebee movie. Be wise to not generalize. Because it just isn't true. What G1 fans wanted would be more fitting. But in terms of Paramounts take on that film. It was incredibly unsuccessful at the box office. Which goes to show that "everyone did not want this" the majority just wanted a better story. Bayverse action figures are still one of Has/Tak top sellers. And trust whether you like it or not. They will remain for some time. Especially for the 3rd Party Market. UniqueToys, is coming out with a movie GALVATRON which is highly anticipated. ToyWorld, is Bringing out MpM size DRIFT, CROSSHAIRS, DROPKICK and Shatter (triple changers) and there are a few new companies. One is dropping a MpM Soundwave. TungMung had one that was suppose to be released last year, but unfortunately their manufacturing plant was destroyed in a freak flood. BayVerse TFormers are collectors dreams mostly due to the realistic detailing and Quality designs. G1 characters just pale in comparison. G1 figures had their time. Now it just time to move on. Its 2020 not 1986

[@countypoe1644]

Where are all the bayverse fan groups, popular KZbin channels? It seems to me that most of the most popular social media groups/channels are pretty G1 heavy. Studio Series in nothing more than the parties involved trying to capitalize on their failed investments. If G1 was so played out, why did the bayverse Prime not transform into a Toyota Prius, instead of a semi? Most adults willing to spend $150-$200 or more on transforming action figures are in their 40’s , and actually got to experience “geewun” as you put it, so aside from one or two bots here or there, companies like Has/Tak, and Fans Toys (the major players) are going to continue to give us the best solid G1.

[@tfcollect2690]

@@countypoe1644 there are many. Im a part of 2. You can have fan groups. But what does that have to do with merchindise? Nothing. G1 figure just arent coming off the store shelves. Has/Tak is rehashing the seige toys for the Netflix series. However, totally new molds for STUDIO SERIES. Studio series are sellers. Not fan pages.

[@collyman445]

@@countypoe1644 the bay verse is huge, the only reason you cant find any KZbin channels or fan groups is because your not looking. People like the ragin nation are HUGE on KZbin

[@patrickgancarczyk6199]

Totally agree with you on that point. There’s so much Bayverse figures coming out that I’m astonished that I’m getting certain characters I never thought I’d see a MpM representation. Like Galvatron!?! Seriously!?! That’s awesome