BBC Fake Britain Clip - Vinyl Bootlegging inc Northern Soul Vinyl

BBC Fake Britain - Vinyl Bootleggers Clip
Includes a look at Northern Soul bootlegging
'The vinyl copies that are fleecing record collectors out of thousands'.
Broadcast 28th Nov 2019 - 11:00am Episode 4 of 10 - Full episode available via BBC Iplayer
Soul Source News Item with background here
www.soul-source.co.uk/article...

[@machiel5888]

2:00 you can't beat putting on a record and hearing pops and clicks? Sure you can! putting on a record and hearing nothing until the song comes on because the record is clean... NOW THAT is a feeling you can't beat.

[@garryroche2984]

It's the only chance some of us can actually obtain some of these gems, as long as the quality is good, I'd rather pay from £5 to £12 for a reissue, no matter if it's an official reissue or a bootleg copy, than stupid money for an original. I respect collectors and understand their mission, but my anorak days of collecting are over, it's the music that counts, respect to all that still KTF. So reissues & bootlegs play a major part on the Northern Soul / Belgium Popcorn r'n'b Scene, if it's not on a reissue, then the bootleg 7s are even more important to us.

[@NorthernSoulIsMyWorld]

Yes, but how would you feel if you were a serious collector who paid thousands for a boot that looked liked the real thing?

[@jonny68s52]

In my day, they were called 'pressings'

[@bobsoldrecords1503]

The guys in the nick who sold these weren't asking exorbitant prices. These were obvious fakes. Nobody was fooled. It was the violation of copyright and not misrepresentation.

[@NorthernSoulIsMyWorld]

It's those who create convincing looking boots of records worth thousands, then pass them off as originals who are the real villains!

[@derekm1791]

I feel like any collector should be able to look at the price and determine whether its a fake or not. I've got a boot of Do I Love You on purple vinyl i got for about 10 US. It plays clean and i enjoy it. Clearly not an original but that's ok for listening to at home.

[@NorthernSoulIsMyWorld]

But you know you paid for a boot, but what about collectors who pay thousands for a record only to discover it's a very convincing bootleg!

[@johngellard1187]

@@NorthernSoulIsMyWorld Agreed.Also Physically seeing the item before parting with money.

[@motownman1953]

I was first introduced to bootleg northern soul 45's back in 1972 in Manchester where a certain record shop was the stockist for the infamous 'Soul Sounds' records for £1.50 each. Quality was awful but they were built like acetates.

[@kikeheebchinkjigaboo6631]

Soul, doo wop, sun and rockabilly 45s are highly COUNTERFEITED

[@VespaT5]

I'm an avid collector of counterfeit records, I'll pay as much as 50p for one in MC.

[@jerrylott4465]

It’s been going on for years.....

[@Ange65230]

Caveat Emptor......but even 'bona fide' bootleg copies and Unofficial releases have their rarity value and are extremely collectable, so as long as you scrutinize the detail, and DYOR you can do very well with them IF you get for the right price. And Dom, even though this post seems to have been released in 2019, £900 was still very low, try thousands or tens of thousands.......DYOR perhaps, maybe 'posters' here will help?

[@kikeheebchinkjigaboo6631]

These are not BOOTLEGS BUT COUNTERFEITS . There is a difference

[@oleplanthafer7034]

Northern Soul fakes go back to as far as the early-to-mid 70's... such as my blue label Lou Pride single, which I still happily play, as the sound quality is truely good. 😊 Oh, and even as an obvious fake it has been rated at £50 by a specializing online community.

[@alanbratt3022]

Bootlegs have been around on the Rare Soul scene since the early 70's (and maybe earlier). Some are really well done, very difficult to distinguish from the real thing. Serious collectors have always had to be right at the top of their game.

[@NorthernSoulIsMyWorld]

Few collectors are THAT on top of their game! Someone like John Manship knows what to look for, but many collectors have fooled over the years!

[@johngellard1187]

@@NorthernSoulIsMyWorld Yes,matrix numbers,marking's in various places and a real clincher weighing the vinyl...

[@gomey70]

@@johngellard1187 and also the width of the runout, which is very hard to copy accurately.

[@jonkino]

That record collector john who bought the Pink Floyd album for £45! Why would you buy a rare record without doing the research first. Obvious if he looked at the rear of the cover it was a boot with no writing on it. Can't be much of a collector.

[@bobntidds]

He could have bought a decent deck too 😱🎶💩

[@gingernutpreacher]

Also at £45 he must of know it was worth much more so he was trying to ripping some one off

[@MarbleArch333]

Got what he deserved imo. Collecting records for 40 years and doesn't know the term "tracklist". "On the back there's no writing to tell you what songs are on it" 😂😂😂

[@JamesSmith-ru7mm]

Nevermind bootlegs some of the legit vinyl issues these days are poor quality more often than not warped and often with slight pressing faults in them (pops, clicks etc). I’m 100% against bootlegs but I think the general quality control of vinyl needs to be looked at.

[@Alyric-now]

Absolutely true. Whereas mastering a single was once a fine art, it's now often done automatically. So the settings for a metal album could well be the same for a James Last re-issue. The vinyl is often thinner than before, and not allowed to cool long enough (which is why it warps). Some labels are doing a great job. Others - either through ignorance or not - are releasing very sloppy vinyls. If any bands or small labels read this: always ALWAYS ask for for a test pressing before your print run.

[@mansakonko7777]

Alot are mastered from cd version. Lotta piss being taken in the modern vinyl market.

[@twitchygiraffe4636]

Definitely! If vinyl has come back to stay then obviously the originals (or old copies in general) have all but nearly disappeared! So most people are going to have to settle for reissues, but they are made with no quality control whatsoever and i’ve personally found myself taking lp’s back and back and back and it’s dragging the joy and soul out of record collecting to the point that I have been seriously considering going back to cd!!!!

[@capitol7950]

You would have to be bit thick buying a boot for a tenner thinking u are getting a 25g equivalent.

[@DorianPaige00]

The only problem is that they are selling it for high amounts and advertising as original.

[@capitol7950]

@@DorianPaige00 fair point.

[@bluenose007]

If it sounds the same its great if you didnt pay too much

[@koont666]

Not being funny but if your fooled by boots you shouldn't really be collecting records of this calibre ,And as they are usually a tenner then it lets people own a copy that would otherwise be out of reach ,some boots go for good money ,It's only the gready so called new internet dealers on we all know what site that push up prices like buy to let ect I'll leave it here before I really get going cheers for the upload.😜

[@Therealkevdraper]

Out of prison and still doing it!

[@discomarathonlegend]

a discrace mate x

[@Genghis-Khan121]

They never even mentioned copyright laws as that’s the technical part of the whole business,

[@trix_supr3m364]

whose here cuz of school lol

[@PURERIDDIM]

some of these are unofficial represses and cost about a tenner which is fair enough compared to spending 20 grand on a single which has 2 songs which are almost impossible to get any more. all the money goes to the dealer anyway none to artist but selling them as originals is wrong.

[@TheVinylGuru]

PURERIDDIM agreed!

[@MultiDoctordeath]

You need to do the same with commemorative coins. Some fake coins are selling for ridiculous prices.

[@davidsparkes4377]

Boots have always been there from the start.. its apart of Northern soul's history. Also cover ups At the end its all about the music..

[@NorthernSoulIsMyWorld]

It's passing them off as originals, and charging hundreds even thousands, that's the real issue!

[@stevendone5493]

It’s been going on for years . EMIdiscs in the 70,s you knew they were copies and bootlegs . Understand the collectors only want the original but if there’s only a couple in the world available then for the majority having a copy in their collection is better than nothing . Can’t see the problem as people who buy them will know they are copies and will only pay price of a copy . It’s only when a copy is passed off as an original that problem starts but most collectors know what they are looking for and won’t be fooled .

[@harrysmusicroom]

These collectors should certainly know what they're buying. I would guess they are buying these pressings as "fillers" since they will likely never find an original. Are they being presented as authentic original pressings, or is there no mention and the sellers are "buyers beware" ??

[@narta11]

It’s not just northern soul. They put out a lot or rare rockabilly too. Nothing goes back to the original artists.

[@jakeblues5854]

Frank Wilson, there are 6 known copies 3 located , 1 original just sold for £100,000 E,bay is full of them even down to the catalogue scratch number in the centre

[@salfordsteve22305]

And one of the other 2 is totally unplayable

[@JJMMWGDuPree]

They're not utterly worthless, just not worth the cost of the vinyl they're printed on. I'd happily pay 50p for a fake of something I'm never going to be able to afford knowing that the forger was going to be out of pocket on the deal.

[@strawman2458]

You just don't get it Dominic ,no one gives a fuck ,it's the ownership of a Northern soul tune you like and playing it on a record player that's all that matters, the people selling these are not charging hundreds of pounds for them, 10,20,30,maybe, which to me who's been into Northern soul since I was 15 back in 76,not bothered at all,any way everyone into Northern soul knows there's only 2 copies of do I love you in existence and last one sold for 35 grand ,so if you buy a copy for a tenner no big deal ,it's only the geeky eletest collectors that don't like it they act like fucking golem my precious, you know what I mean, so no big deal no one cares I'd rather have something fiscal to own and play like it's supposed to be than ,all this digital download, cd bollocks,

[@mickmccarthy118]

What a load of bollocks

[@Musicsification]

Agreed.When the BBC cover topics that I have some knowledge of myself, their reporting is always,but ALWAYS ill-informed and incorrect and it shows me that I can't trust any of their info on any subject I don't know much about.They are just shite,plain and simple.

[@Genghis-Khan121]

They are right to mention it and more the better

[@mickmccarthy118]

Every body who buy these records know that they are not real they are made from plastic and are repressed for the northern soul people who cant afford or find a real one

[@gingernutpreacher]

If it's really light could it be polystyrene?

[@smeggsytitan9807]

when your here for school

[@keithfrmcov]

There are LP's that I have. Go Moog. Dark Side Of The Moon.

[@jakeblues5854]

Put my n/soul on thumb drive to save the vinyl originals EBay is full of repress,e's with snide labels Vinyl tunes worth £xxx in the morning then nowt at dinner the market moves that quick

[@MARTINA-gc3tq]

it's not new... i have a fake "Shop Around" on Tamla booted in detroit in the early 60's

[@jonnyrocket3659]

Darrell Banks 45 ‘Open The Door To Your Heart' one of only 5 in UK, but this one has a misprint on the label.. It reads 'Open The Door To Your Fart'.. I'd let it go for £15k, or £5 buy it now quick sale, ships from China allow 28 days delivery

[@cbkbstudio]

Does that have the B side "Our Glove (Is In The Rocket)"?

[@jonnyrocket3659]

​@@cbkbstudio not come across that 7 inch my friend but my associates in China could arrange that if you like.. reminds me of a finders trip to Atlantic back in 1980 and I managed to find a misprinted white label promo of Cliff Nobles' "My Glove is Getting Stronger"... I can do that for £39.99 including P&P, absolute mint never played.

[@bobsoldrecords1503]

I have a Taiwan bootleg of Poy Drbison i can trade for that. Is it on Landon Amerigun?

[@tonyteo7778]

Simon Soussan.

[@paulemery2324]

I have a copy of this on the soul label, I now think that mine could be not original....

[@cbkbstudio]

Or are there 3 copies that weren't destroyed?

[@frankmclaughlin1757]

When did you buy it & how much did you pay?

[@gary1961]

I've just paid 25 grand for a black disc that is 7 inches across with a little hole in the middle. Is this a record?

[@djpaul146]

I bought a bootleg of Chris clark do i love you on the Gordy record label from ebay I did bid on it. it's a promotional copy with the temptations on the b side I paid £23

[@drwhatson]

There was no such record release in the 1960s. It was released from tapes in the 1990s.

[@davehughesaswatchityou2542]

A lot of peeps have started to buy these junk repros to start their own gigs up

[@tonyhanson7341]

Nothing cwrong with youngsters wanting to start a collection of vinyl

[@moxey25]

Trick me treat me is red label ?

[@Musicsification]

God,I fucking DETEST the BPI and every last thing they stand for.The major labels very own corporate police force.Is it even within their remit to be going after these people.It's hardly taking any money away from the biz.I would have thought Trading Standards would be more appropriate.

[@moxey25]

Had dealers do this 400 quid down

[@capitol7950]

Ats rough passing off boots as the real deal is just out n out fraud, n 400 brick is a lot o cash in anyone's book

[@DorianPaige00]

Wrong b-side and some with no label on the flip. Not a very good effort to replicate! This should be thought of as grand larceny especially if they were caught with 55K fakes. These titles are so much because they don't come up for sale often.

[@tarquinftangftangolebiscui8606]

Thank you BBC, I really didn't know that. Says me who has been buying vinyl records for almost 50 years. Twats.

[@bedpansniper]

So you're the only person on EBay to spot a rare track worth around £800 but this nutter obviously doesn't know its true worth and is listing it as buy it now for £45! Bargin!..

[@discomarathonlegend]

oooohhhhh burn em the public should say give us the real thing, we aint paying for fakes....

[@jakeblues5854]

Do I love you 6 made 3 known to excist berry gordy has 1 the others well ??????

[@chrisrhythm]

Haha! I‘m sorry; if you really think you can buy an original copy of the Frank Wilson, that’s totally silly 😜 since everyone in the world knows that only two (3) copies exists. And buying rare records on Amazon or EBay is totally unprofessional and I have no mercy for that. I also don’t like this flooded shitty reissue market and of course the bootlegs!, but few dealers get the risk, produce proper sound quality copies of the old songs or even give efforts to an additional edit on the flip and sell them cheap, just because youngsters should get a chance. And that’s good for the songs, for the soul and for the body 😉🥁🤟so it depends with whom you deal!

[@00stobart]

SIX copies.

[@johngellard1187]

@@00stobart That is what I read.I unplayable,and allegedly the singer from the White stripes Jack white own's one.(He also collect's movie posters and paid over 450k for the only surviving poster of the "lost" silent film London After Midnight,starring Lon Chaney.

[@00stobart]

@@johngellard1187 That was the last copy which turned up - making the sixth - it was inexplicably found in a mom and pop store not far from Motown. He did buy it, but as a gift to the city of Detroit so props to him on that. He did do a good version of Little Willie John's 'You Got Me Shakin' BTW. The record is £110k paid for it by a guy from Leicester a couple of years ago who owns a fancy lemonade business and is the son of a big Northern Soul fan (he also bought a second hand McLaren F1 at the time). I looked after FW when he came to the UK (along with my late husband - I held two real copies at the same time when Tim Brown and Kenny Burrell came to the hotel - it was KBs copy that sold for the big money as it was the first one found) when he played at Fleetwood Northern Soul Weekender and got the full true story. FW had recorded a few records himself prior to DILY (notably as Sonny Daye 'Long Road To Happiness') and had been contracted (though not employed by) with Marc Gordon to manage the LA office for Motown since the mid 60s. He still had a hankering to record when he started producing for Motown so cut DILY, 500 demos were produced and due to be distributed, he was watching The Supremes from behind the curtain with Berry Gordy, they were exhausted doing their third set of the day and BG said to FW 'look, poor girls they've got stardom but they're absolutely shattered, you're a fantastic producer making lots of money - do you REALLY want all this work in the hope of succeeding?' FW said 'well I guess you're right' - next morning FW got into the office to find out BG had come in early and sent want he thought was every copy (FW never had one) to be shredded. The only copies to survive were Robert Di Aperro the engineer who kept one, the library, quality control, one that somehow ended up in the hands of a Jewish Motown collector in Canada, one other from somewhere and the last one mentioned. BTW Russ Winstanley NEVER owned a copy - though he constantly lies that he did - he had an EMIdisc with photocopied labels pasted on. FW was very embarassed by his vocal on the record but actually tried to buy Tims copy for $80k on behalf of his daughter who was a very wealthy businesswoman. He was a great guy and was far more proud of his work with the Supremes after DR left, The Originals and most of all his later stuff with Lenny Welch. Dave x

[@johngellard1187]

@@00stobart Dave,what an amazing story,thank's so much for all this info.👍

[@silversurfermusicco5263]

Facebook area

[@drwhatson]

Absolute rubbish. Pure sensationalism. Nobody sane buys a bootlegged rare Northern Soul record for the price of an original! Nobody. Genuine collectors aren't that stupid and casual buyers don't spend that kind of money. Many modern reproductions have licenced the record from the music publisher, so they're actually legitmate reissues. Other bootlegs are easy to spot.

[@jonnyrocket3659]

Buy a fake record ? put it back on Ebay like all the other collectors.. let's face it, what else are you going to do with it ?

[@limbostratus]

Send it back for a refund.

[@allthatjazz8934]

We all know where, and who does the fakes. UK primarily, and then Spain. Let’s be honest, it’s shit. You have American sellers now listing Johnny Burnette Trio Coral repros from 2010 on eBay. Then some poor kid wins it at auction for the cost of an original. Discogs is to blame in this scenario as well by their use of “Reissue”. It’s not a reissue, it’s an unlicensed, fake reproduction. If you see repros, report them, those people need to get a life and not rip off the youth interested in vintage music. We don’t need a repro of Ray Charles “I Don’t Need No Doctor”, and those dudes committing the crime, shouldn’t be profiting off a deceased, blind, black man’s dream. There’s no soul in a fake. It’s downright shameful, and those of you doing it can get wrecked.

[@junkoenoshima540]

I’m here cuz of business studies 😠🦶

[@peterflynn7083]

No shit Sherlock

[@Gazoor2004]

Fortunately, or not, the majority, if not all, of items shown on here are obviously 'boots' and not manufactured to con anyone into believing they are originals... but to provide someone a way of getting a great tune for a tenner.. lazy journalism. imho... of course. :-)