Lucy Letby: A timeline of the most prolific child killer in modern Britain - BBC Newsnight

Neonatal nurse Lucy Letby, the UK's most prolific child serial killer in modern British history, was given multiple whole-life sentences today and will spend the rest of her life behind bars.
The 33-year-old was convicted of murdering seven babies and attempting to kill six other infants at the Countess of Chester Hospital.
Letby isn't the first medical professional to use their training and uniform to deceive and manipulate colleagues and relatives, and to kill patients.
Newsnight’s Insight & Investigations Editor Joe Pike reports.
Produced by Maria Polachowska
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[@Canadasorryeh]

The amount of lifes lost to protecting reputation and business is beyond sick.

[@ronlacker326]

As long as they were white babies, its no problem.

[@HumanBeingsRThinkingBeings]

Mind Begs the Question: Hitler - shifted blame for Nations Failures on Religious Minority If Politicians/Govts - shift blame for Nations Failures on Vulnerable/Immigrants Practicing Hitlers Mein Kampf,no?

[@ayehtunohn]

Those who hide behind the bureaucracy should also be behind bars with this psycho.

[@chrisj2502]

The media doesn't even talk about the V.

[@waimar5457]

There are no protocols that requires written statements about suspicious facts someone could report to the management? Otherwise managers could deny that someone had verbally put out some informations. And if there are written documents of the warnings to the management, and they didn't act properly...why after more than 5 years they weren't bring to court?

[@Scrapper.]

Prison sentences of various lengths should be dispensed to hospital executives for their grossly nonchalant attitude to the concerns about Letby raised by staff. More children died as a result. Those responsible should not get to walk away.

[@h3arty]

💯!!

[@irisinthelightofthemoon9258]

Those responsible should be treated as complicit and facilitators of these murders and yes they should face aggravated criminal charges directly on them as oppose to hiding behind the holy NHS

[@feartheghostinme675]

I would expect this from an American nurse 🇺🇸

[@waimar5457]

There are no protocols that requires written statements about suspicious facts someone could report to the management? Otherwise managers could deny that someone had verbally put out some informations. And if there are written documents of the warnings to the management, and they didn't act properly...why after more than 5 years they weren't bring to court?

[@shadrana1]

Many did walk away with a fat-gutted pension.The NHS is a lesson in socialism,staff come first,patients are there to be tolerated.

[@belmont8792]

She shouldn't be the only one to go to jail.

[@Annapurna818]

Management also

[@asmith9140]

exactly managers as well

[@CL-he4jz]

midazolam and morphine

[@KANGZZZ.]

She is a hero

[@mkr1390]

​@kamekazi1229 why is she a hero?

[@petrairene]

Germany here, we had a case of a patient killing nurse (adult critical care patients) and the hospitals he worked at refused to take action despite multiple warnings by doctors and colleagues. He was able to kill dozens over several years (number will never be determined exactly because the bodies of potential victims were already too decomposed to prove anything) before he was eventually stopped. So, blocking investigations into suspected harming and killing of patients is not just a problem the UK healthcare system.

[@akellagermanytraveldiaries]

EU has more people like Lucy Letby born with psychopath tendencies according to criminal psychologist Dr David Wilson

[@blurbbbb8397]

Ducking krauts

[@wnd9434]

Scary, government should invest CCTV to every ward

[@zahraansari3710]

Similar in the US again critical care unit. They made a documentary on Netflix

[@FurnitureFan]

It's so weird. Surely in any case of sudden death, a pathologist is called in? In the LL case, they found the how. They knew how those babies were attacked. The evidence of an assault was right there once the professional examinations went ahead. Why were those deaths not investigated for years? For learning purposes at least? That other babies could be saved from similar fates? I'm not saying that they "should have known" before any investigation. I'm saying they had grounds to investigate or involve detectives. It's so chilling that after 3 such losses, the management did not immediately focus on causes.

[@queenofthebutterflies5212]

Jesus, my own child is 8. This hits home so much bc i went into premature labour and relied completely on the specialist Dr's and nurses to keep my baby alive. If he'd have passed I don't know how I'd have survived. I've had 2 miscarriages and was told I was infertile. What this creature did to these families and loved one's will never be fixed, it will never end, and will forever torment the victims.

[@andrewboff5682]

That's Awful sorry to hear that I'm very glad you got your child love and happiness for you all,

[@taras6806]

So happy to hear your child is alive and presumably thriving. Yes.... we have no choice but to rely on the medical staff. Which in the context of this matter now seems worrying.

[@stevemccann4166]

Believe one of the parents, possibly the ones with twins had to have IVF over a few years before being successful. To have that joy of finally being able to have children and then for it to be taken away again must have been devastating!!☹️

[@taras6806]

​@@stevemccann4166 But of course. And I was surprised the Judge didn't mention te loss of 9 months (or so) or expectation and excitement, of arrangements made, all that sort of thing. Utterly devastating for all the families. Especially those who know their babies were crying at length in pain; and those surviving permanently disabled.

[@stevemccann4166]

@@taras6806 All those prezzies from family and friends, the scans, the cot as well as the nursery will be a constant reminder of the loss and almost a shrine in a way.

[@Onlyhuman1972]

The former medical director and executive should be held responsible for something in this tragedy, they forced the doctors to write an apology to the killer WHILE SHE WAS CARRYING OUT HER HEINOUS CRIME! This is beyond insane

[@JohnnyCatFitz]

Narcissists always end up getting people to see them as a victim. Effing Sociopathic, Malignant Narcissist

[@MS-bs8dd]

Something so OFF base about their judgment!!

[@testing-je7yz]

Well just take a look her pictures, despite being a criminal, they chose the best pictures to promote her. I suspect the doctor was not white enough, and Lucy was.

[@cbpd89]

I'm not sure the legal ins and outs of the law in the UK, but if there was any sort of paper trail as proof that the doctors were raising the alarm... that's pretty good proof for negligence. In the US you pretty much just have to prove that the person didn't act how a reasonable person might and that they knew they were potentially doing something dangerous, to me these admins fit that description. If those families wanted to sue for gross negligence, I think they'd have a strong case.

[@Onlyhuman1972]

@@cbpd89 The Asian doctor showed in one interview the apology letter which he and his colleagues were forced to write to her

[@bennicholas4178]

If this happened to my daughter I wouldn't accept a penny I'd want senior management to go to jail. For incompetance

[@amacca2085]

Be waiting a long time then

[@mrretired2715]

100%

[@Glori11133]

Law don’t work like that sweetheart..but yes In an ideal world

[@KaleemAkbar786]

Bring Back The Death Penalty

[@zenster1097]

@@Glori11133 Law in liberal democracy is gay.

[@tabatina100]

I am a nurse myself, but in my opinion all healthcare providers should take psychological/psychiatric tests prior employment.

[@FurnitureFan]

I can't imagine what sort of questions people might ask. How does a professional assessor gauge how humane a person might be? For all I know, there may be ways to highlight such people, but half of the time we hear reports of how a killer had family, work or religious pressures building up, and so on. They aren't unique in that. Plenty of people have struggles but they aren't killers. I don't think it's predictable in advance. To me, the onus is on the hospital to fully investigate each death. It seems the least that they could do.

[@roland20002000]

It would be futile. You'd just end up with someone getting paid to ask a series of questions that anyone with bad intentions would know the "correct" answers to.

[@secretninja4662]

Most of these sickos are very good at social skills. It's very hard to indentify unless they are already committed a crime.

[@FC-hj9ub]

Those tests that already exist ate usually very generic, anyone can 'pass' them. Bring a nurse is difficult enough and the work market is already a mess, it would be too hard to recruit nurses like this

[@KBB-nf1dr]

Clearly, you don’t understand that psychopaths & sociopaths are everywhere and they can pass a test, they have everyone fooled. Everyone always believe that they’re the nicest kindest person that you would ever meet, they have very many flying monkeys, and if anyone tries to point out who they are, the flying monkeys are more than happy to attack on. Silence anyone

[@drrd4127]

More than a third of health care workers have suicidal thoughts I used to be a nurse once a blue mood and watching people suffer did actually lead me to suicidal thoughts, I feel healthcare workers are more likely to want to kill themselves than others, most healthcare workers go onto the profession because they like people and want to help, I hope people understand that. But then there are nurses who I have met who have confessed that they hate people, they hate children, they hate old people, they don't care, they have bad attitudes and I don't think those types of people should be tolerated on any wards but somehow they keep their jobs. Psychoanalysis should be done on every nurse 6 monthly in my opinion.

[@rivergladesgardenrailroad8834]

agreed, just like some Teachers who should never be teachers. I have met a few

[@cube5750]

This is what happens when healthcare workers who literally save lives are treated worse than private sector employees and get paid even lesser than gig workers. They have no incentive to work. All this when there's so much shortage in this industry.

[@CraigTheBrute-yf7no]

@@cube5750its true, many healthcare workers end up becoming very bitter when they realize they are being exploited as cheap replaceable labour by the government & the electorate who put them in power. But I don’t think that’s the case with Letby, the pay & conditions were much better in the early 2010s than they are today. I think she was jealous because she had no children of her own. She enjoyed the power to play God & take that away from other people.

[@oldvale3686]

@@cube5750incentive is the key word in your spot on comment.

[@alexanderjohnson8333]

@@cube5750This is what happens when all the dumb mean girls from school go off to be nurses. I’ve seen it. All the horrible girls from high-school choose health and childcare. I don’t believe it’s lack of incentive it’s just a great place for evil to work and fester.

[@blazinpyromaniac]

Those managers need to be charged for negligent homicide, to allow this for going on for months after the initial complaints. They deserve prison as well.

[@TheGalacticEmperorOfLabels]

I was in ICU when I was born. I owe my life to the medics who took care of me way back then. To think that someone in their position was deliberately causing devastating harm to and taking the lives of such children is utterly abhorrent.

[@Amelia-er2sn]

I work in the head office of an NHS hospital, it's absolutely unfathomable that these concerns weren't immediately listen to and no action was taken sooner. Senior Management have blood on their hands

[@catlifematters777]

Hats off to the person who brought this matter to light and who raised a police complaint against her 🙇🙇

[@fmanresurrected6774]

Little too late…you English are an absolute disgrace

[@isonzo29]

they literally just lied LOL

[@mol588]

These top managers earn yearly salaries of £160,000 + benefits . They should be sacked instead of moving on to other trusts !!!

[@objectiveone5476]

Having read the facts of this case, the fact that Lucy was found guilty at all is an absolute travesty. Poor Lucy is paying for the incompetence of others who aren’t honest enough to admit their shortcomings. That the justice system in this country can’t see the truth leaves us knowing that none of us will truly get justice when the system is as corrupt as this.

[@alfredocamacho8907]

you are totally off. she truly killed these poor babies. my god follow the trial transcripts for gods sake. you are one of the sheep! you dumb a..

[@alfredocamacho8907]

poor lucy? how dare you insult the families of these tiny victims!

[@Yahuah222]

Please elaborate

[@philholding6905]

@@alfredocamacho8907 Then so are the 24 expert neonatologists and statisticians, who have wrote to the Justice minister, outlining their concerns of the prosecution evidence. Of course, they have nothing to lose. Except their professional reputations and careers.

[@DenissBikbulatovs]

I don’t understand how managers did not even suspect her, they should keep an eye on her after first death. Also it’s the managers fault that so many kids died. I’m surprised there are no cameras, it’s very strange

[@hisfavworstnightmare]

i’m also very shocked at the absence of cameras at the hospital - surely cctv for safety would be installed? especially in neonatal units where the babies are vulnerable? it’s an awful shame this went on for as long as it did. whoever managed the unit at the time should be ashamed too.

[@fatimakhatun5788]

An Asian doctor did tell them but they made him apologise to her

[@debsn7772]

@@fatimakhatun5788Mmmmmm, I wonder why🤔😡😡😡

[@ebonynaomi1085]

​​@@fatimakhatun5788 4 doctors were made to apologise to her. They all had to write and sign, a written statement confirming their "mistake and bullying". Huge mistake on management, worried about reputation than patient safety.

[@albertawheat6832]

Now you know why it BS...Your on cctv 24/7 but they have holes in there system ??

[@guff9567]

WTF is the management doing? COMPLETE INSANITY

[@debsn7772]

What is management doing............?...collecting their fat salaries and even fatter gold plated pensions😡

[@skymanifest8339]

They were middle-class with a fancy degree, so superior to us mere mortals.

[@sbeast64]

They completely failed and blamed the whistleblowers more than the person most likely to be killing babies. Complete failure.

[@alistairbeveridge2753]

It’s not insanity if y’take a look around you , titles used be a something you earned through knowledge and experience, for many years now nepotism has been rife, there’s a system to follow so that it looks like everyone has a fair crack at the job , it’s all theatre 🤷‍♂️, friends and family hold soooo many positions with titles , salaries and perks , but have ZERO aptitude to fulfill the positions and titles given 🤷‍♂️ it’s all part of the corrupt state we live under 👍.

[@oiputthatback7361]

Nothing absolutely , walking around trying to look important. The problem is , they lose contact with what’s happing on the wards , you know they by description and nothing else. Lots of useless meetings and the results ,the wards and hospital remains in disarray . We can draw our own conclusion . Actually when I look back on my nursing career , some of these manager are Nuts , I kid you not. They major on the minor with the most important things they overlook. Used to drive me to distraction.

[@keithbessant]

It's so sad and horrific. To think that one baby was murdered on the fourth attempt. The poor little child managed to survive three times, only to succumb on the fourth time. It's so weird that someone like Letby obviously impressed her nursing college and her employers, whereas other less confident, but basically good students and nurses would have been chewed up and spat out by that system.

[@lesleyhubble2976]

Most probably gave the right image, she seems very snooty

[@helenalovelock1030]

Yes it’s going back 3 times to finish off the job.

[@crypton_8l87]

You got to be a blonde to know how that works, mate

[@brunosmith6925]

Interesting to see how the hospital directors now say "we will co-operate fully" AFTER the conviction - but vigorously resisted co-operating years before it.

[@surryakhan7989]

I don't think they will co-operate, they will lie

[@zoraxye4325]

This is as devastating as it’s infuriating. I cannot begin to imagine the pain those precious babies went through. A neo natal ward should have been the safest place for them. There are a few NHS doctors in my family and they’re all crushed by this Letby case as are all decent people. The senior managers have to be held accountable, it was their lackadaisical approach which empowered Letby to continue her evil plans. If clinicians tell you about a colleague you HAVE to take prompt action. Lucy Letby should have been dragged into the courtroom and made to listen to the families impact statements. She doesn’t get to choose anything Shipman, Allet, Norris and now Letby are simply demons in human form.

[@salishseas]

I just read the executive branch went and got new jobs for higher pay at different hospitals. This is what happens in the US. I had hoped other places were more sane than us here in the US.

[@zoraxye4325]

@@salishseas All of the managers who empowered Letby because of their negligence are now under scrutiny. It wouldn’t surprise me if they all end up in prison for manslaughter or being accessories to murder. Whatever you have in the US, we probably have something similar in the UK. The good, the bad and in this case, the extremely ugly.

[@acb5245]

Narcissistic and psychopathic with sadistic tendencies.

[@Man_fay_the_Bru]

I doubt they’re crushed at all, the amount of drs that seem like they should be in a certain ward themselves is unbelievable

[@Man_fay_the_Bru]

@@salishseasth Ed nhs ar Ed like the catholic church& just send there dodgy drs& nurses to a different hospital, the nhs is utter crap now

[@iamdmc]

The management needs to be fired and jailed - real consequences for negligence causing death!

[@user-ie5hj9bb9m]

All management teams are crap should be done away with

[@chrisj2502]

Not likely in the UK.

[@Flash-sr8hm]

​@@chrisj2502Cheshire police are investigating the case for corporate negligence, I believe.

[@danimillistudios]

Condolences to the parents and their families. Very sorry for their loss 😢

[@pjmoseley243]

What you just said is all anyone of public can say in reality.

[@juliet3827]

Is that all you can say? It's so tepid and weak, and resolves nothing. For god's sake, urge the families of the killed babies to start legal proceedings and sue the pants off the NHS directors who DID NOTHING in the face of that monster, Lucy Letby, while allowing her to continue her murderous spree. Had they shown some backbone and acted sooner, infant lives would've been saved!!

[@juliet3827]

@@pjmoseley243 What?!? What a pathetically weak and tepid response. For god's sake, urge the families of the killed babies to start legal proceedings and sue the pants off the NHS directors who DID NOTHING in the face of that monster, Lucy Letby, while allowing her to continue her murderous spree. Had they shown some backbone and acted sooner, infant lives would've been saved!! There. That's what the public can say "in reality".

[@harrietthespy2119]

Sue Lucy’s parents, too!

[@harrietthespy2119]

Many pediatricians named LL as the common denominator, and it took sooooo long to stop this deeply painful/tragic murder spree. Why? My belief is that she had done her anti-social prep-and-post grooming, and gained the trust of vulnerable parents, well-meaning/dedicated doctors, fellow prosocial nurses and administrators and even supportive janitors! I weep for these sweet devastated babes, parents, siblings, cousins, neighbors, aunts, uncles and grandparents❤️‍🩹🙏❤️‍🩹🙏❤️‍🩹🙏❤️‍🩹🙏❤️‍🩹

[@megastack95]

She has dragged the NHS name through the dirt. My daughter died a few hours after birth and we had midwives and consultants with us the whole time giving my daughter the best opportunity at life. In the end we made the decision to let her fall asleep as the consultant was physically giving her oxygen for 3 hours. Everyone involved in my daughters life and death were amazing. They were supportive and understanding. Most importantly they explained what was wrong with my daughter and showed why it was highly likely she wouldn't survive without being given oxygen. I miss her every day but it eases my mental health knowing everyone did all they could. It must be torture to lose your child and then find out they were actually murdered. That vile person (not going to even say her name) should rot in prison for the rest of her days. No doubt that she will kill herself one day to escape a life sentence.

[@noemiemurciano1307]

I'm so incredibly sorry that you experienced such grief and sorrow. Sending you much love.

[@nolaughingmatter]

Child killers/abusers are often killed in prison themselves

[@EvonneLindiwe]

I so sorry for your daughters loss 🙏🏿👼💐

[@megastack95]

@@noemiemurciano1307 people tend to avoid conversation about my daughter as they don't want to bring up old wounds but I invite them to. I love talking my baby. It's reminds me and others that she existed and haf an impact on many different lives.

[@masfardianaaziz9129]

I have been

[@netsyxx1137]

As a nurse myself, I'll never understand this😢

[@kevinjohnlancaster8333]

That is because like 99.9 % of your colleagues, you are a good person.

[@netsyxx1137]

@@kevinjohnlancaster8333 thank you

[@shazanali692]

​@@kevinjohnlancaster8333I've dated some nurses, they are evil

[@Hickalum]

Maybe you will understand it when we know what actually happened … It is entirely possible that Letby is a scapegoat for the dire, unsanitary, understaffed hospital she worked at. As a nurse you will know the NHS is very skilled at finding scapegoats … This has a long way to go yet …

[@michaelcoward1902]

Mmm-hmm...and you're a "nice guy" right?

[@DexPost]

"What lessons can be learned", is the words we often hear from politicians. After the case of Beverly Allitt, was there any protocols or even guidance issued for dealing with medics who are suspected of bad intentions? The fact that managers were able to dismiss the suspicions of so many other medical people and threaten them with consequences, suggests that no lessons were learned at all and no protocols or guidance exists.

[@chrisj2502]

They have ignored the truth about the V as long withe the media.

[@fmanresurrected6774]

It’s not just her, this is common nature in English families. All these wyte people 🤦🏽‍♂️. Lesson learn’t: don’t trust them

[@facialeyes]

After Beverley Allitt the system was overhauled & nurses were made to 'revalidate'. This case shows that foisting more pointless paperwork onto the profession just stresses out 99.9% of hardworking nurses and fundamentally, doesn't make any difference whatsoever to random killers like Letby.

[@pourladentelle]

I’m know, both letters were all political correct statements and not accepting blame.

[@willienelsongonzalez4609]

Management in various hospitals up and down the country behave in a similar manner. It’s not just unique to the hospital in Chester. It’s generally non-medical management that are the primary problem and constantly stop medical clinicians from doing their job. There must be a full public inquiry into what happened at the neonatal unit and hospital that Letby worked at. Those that failed to listen must be held to account!

[@georgesears2916]

Honestly the management class as a whole is the problem with this country. We're all lions lead by sheep.

[@richardcameron3762]

Absolutely agree with this comment

[@JR-1983]

Not to mention making the clinicians give written apologies to her😮. The shitter you are in the NHS the more you get promoted out of the way and protected.

[@oliversteward4732]

@@JR-1983you’re completely right

[@zenster1097]

I find it hilarious that management is not made up of the people who work in medicine. LOL. Clown world.

[@katharinakck7542]

Bit bloody late to be cooperating. It’s not just the monster Letby but the system ( see “trusts” - which is ironic) which allowed this to happen. If I was one of these poor parents I’d be taking these trusts to court for failure to do their jobs.

[@Chloeabzzz]

She was a sadistic psychopath in my opinion and knew full well what she was doing and got pleasure from it.

[@hungcarl]

As a newcomer, I moved to the UK less than 3 years. I really hate the work culture. When I pointed out the issues, I was told I was harsh. When I heard my colleague said she doesn't want to see blame culture. I think blame is good. In my culture, we say the issues. Not suppress it. Now, I just don't give a shit at work. The management just wants peace.

[@JamesSmith-qs4hx]

Go home!

[@rihanerihane3469]

​@JamesSmith-qs4hx Them going home will not solve your issues. You should be grateful that Dr. Ravi (who obviously has an immigrant backgroud) kept raising concerns about this so called nurse.

[@JamesSmith-qs4hx]

@@rihanerihane3469 Maybe Dr Ravi did it.... Given the levels of malpractice with this lot, it seems very likely.

[@hungcarl]

@@JamesSmith-qs4hx even though i was told I was harsh. I was also told I improved my colleagues. Because I told the bloody facts.

[@Owl_bee]

@@JamesSmith-qs4hx Oh sod off. Us native Brits are hardly a nation to be proud of.

[@Liam-zw1ek]

Letby's parents must be wondering where they went wrong. This whole thing is a parent's worst nightmare on so many levels.

[@Brian-om2hh]

I imagine they have thought of little else since she was jailed......

[@angierucinski5694]

So where are the Executive Members ( they are not staff) who ignored 7 Consultants and pursued their "Trust Image?" All retired on Gold Plated pensions or moved on to other Trusts to reinforce some other "Trust Values". Anybody who was involved in this Mass Murder should be brought to account for Criminal Negligence.

[@jamesirvine9541]

If I were one of those consultant whom suspected that surely you'd go over there head in the first place straight to the police

[@JR-1983]

Yeh they will be in a top job somewhere else in the country it's absolutely criminal

[@angierucinski5694]

@@jamesirvine9541 In the end that's what they did after having been forced into an apology letter to the The Murderer. Hence the Trial.

[@jamesirvine9541]

@@angierucinski5694 crazy stuff

[@pleasantville4529]

The consultants have this superiority complex. They go on, unmanaged, and unquestioned. I have seen it first hand. One day, it will be one consultant, the next day another, the day after, another. Plus, they don't communicate with each other. Yet nobody questions them, or their decisions. A lack of consideration for patients is glaringly obvious. This nurse is evil, of that there is no doubt, but if the consultants had paid more attention (instead of flirting with junior doctors, or nursing staff) then this tragedy would never ha've been allowed to happen.

[@sharks2571]

Corporate manslaughter charges need to be applied in these situations. Not only to get justice for the families, but to scare future executives into action when they are brought accusations of malpractice, as they too would be threatened with jail time.

[@applejuice5272]

I was born 9 weeks premature and spent several months in NICU. This case is horrifying and hits home as I was dependant on the doctors and nurses for my every need and survival. What she did to her victims and their parents is utterly unforgivable. My heart goes out to them.

[@KippaxDan]

This isn’t about you

[@Spaceman-jk5fb]

How are you doing now in life Mr Apple juice ?

[@Awesomefishingvideo-bb2tf]

She deserves what she got . Those poor small babies and their families . And those other evil people. What a world

[@JamesSmith-qs4hx]

And the deaths continued after she had been removed from the job....🤔🤔🤔

[@jbug884]

Well done to the doctors for pushing the police investigations. As for the management, trying to brush it under the rug to protect the hospitals reputation, they are practically guilty of aiding and abetting Lucy Letby.

[@telecake]

"She is not the first NHS serial killer and unlikely to be the last." What?!? Sorry I'm not British but I don't think this is normal thinking. The British public should not accept this as something inevitable.

[@missnorthwales321]

As unfortunate as it sounds its more then likely going to be true.

[@kholebandz-gq9lh]

Until they address their bias sadly it will continue the media has been calling her a “English Rose” and implying a killer doesn’t look like her until this crap way of thinking changes then this is where we are. It’s so tragic and scary.

[@chanjessiet]

The NHS management is rotten.

[@h3arty]

I work for the NHS, I can confirm!

[@user-ie5hj9bb9m]

I think all management teams are useless should be done away with

[@fmanresurrected6774]

Moreover English people are rotten

[@markmeade2937]

To the god darn core …. And many of them should be in prison with this utter scumbag

[@CL-he4jz]

​@@user-ie5hj9bb9myes, agree the ever- growing web of managerial beaurocracy. like hannah arendt said, witnessing the worst of killers at nuremberg - they were not even detectably "evil", simply utterly thoughtless, with a great interest in their own advancement. its a dangerous machine, beaurocracy.

[@eugenesetiawan1606]

There are questions that needs to be asked about how baby killer Letby was left in her role after so many had raised concerns about her. About how she was able to raise a grievance procedure against those who raised the concerns and it was found in her favour. Allison Kelly was the senior manager in charge of nursing and has only just been suspended after she was moved to another role within the NHS trust at the Northern Care Alliance as a nursing director. Ian Harvey was the medical director at the time and was allowed to retire in August 2018 just one month after Letbry was arrested with a pension pot of £1.8 million. Tony Chambers was the chief trust executive who was also allowed to retire in September of 2018 with a pension pot of £1.5 million. It stinks, all of it, the doctors and nurses who raised concerns who were chastised for doing so, who were ignored allowing this killer to carry on and cost the lives of more babies and these people seem to be able to walk away? Two of them being paid vast amounts from the public purse in pensions without it seems any recourse whatsoever. They should have been sacked and the pensions denied and now they should be held accountable for manslaughter in the very least. Because now this vile excuse for a human being has been locked away for the rest of her disgusting life should not mean this is over. kzbin.info/www/bejne/aJvRdaVreq6jo7s

[@sarahprovan2040]

Absolutely agree!!

[@fredahwiwu5219]

The weirdest thing is that the evil among humans looks so human

[@55tranquility]

Lucy did not have a fair trial. The similarities with the famous case of Lucia de Berk in the Netherlands are deeply disturbing. it was manifestly clear to me that she was not getting a fair trial. Science was being abused. The police were called in to investigate unexplained deaths on the ward and to assess if a crime had taken place. EVERYONE who worked on that ward during that period begins the police investigation as a potential suspect. But the police began their investigation, of a potentially unfathomably serious crime scene, by strolling in and meeting with senior doctors and consultants for a briefing. They then proceeded to investigate as instructed by the doctors and consultants. Those doctors and consultants were SUSPECTS! These are the same doctors and consultants who made the accusations. Since when, in any potential murder enquiry, has the person/persons reporting the crime been discounted as a suspect before the police even reach the crime scene? Their potential negligence or the possibility that they may have been the murderer was never investigated. If this case wasn’t political from the beginning, it certainly is now. I don’t think it was ever about justice, it was always a face-saving exercise, initiated by another failing, underfunded hospital, who knew there was doctor/consultant negligence involved in most of the unexpected deaths and events on the ward, many of which happened when Lucy wasn’t on shift. Babies dying as a result of negligence or understaffing is a bomb waiting to go off, which would have decimated the already dwindling public confidence in our NHS. That would be very damaging for the politicians who rely on public support to stay in power. Because the NHS is funded by the government and ultimately of course, the electorate. The government, which means the electorate, fund the police too, through grants to each local force. In the last few years, the reputation of the police and public sentiment towards them has justifiably fallen dramatically and must be close to an all-time low. Is it possible that the government and senior officers were desperate to restore some faith in the police force? Cracking the ‘crime’ of the century would go down well with the public! We’ve seen how political and senior police heads roll when they screw up. This investigation was very high profile, very emotive, very long and expensive and, with their reputation in the gutter, it was important for the police to come out triumphant. And it would look terrible for the NHS if all those doctors/consultants in just one department of just one hospital were found to be negligent by the police and their neonatal ‘expert’ (with no neonatal experience). Oh the damage that would do to the NHS, and of course the government, who pay those negligent consultants’ generous wages, but underfund the hospital so badly. It’s SO much less damaging to their reputations to pin everything on one lone murderer. It certainly takes public attention away from the failures of the more powerful parties, if the public have a single villain to target with their fury and hatred. Not to mention the money it’d probably save the NHS/government in medical negligence compensation lawsuits. The Crown Prosecution Service (CPS) and the Criminal Justice system (CJS) are also funded by the government. Following a hugely expensive investigation by the CPS and a trial costing the electorate £Millions, can you imagine the implications for our national institutions, if she’s granted an appeal and exonerated? For starters: 1. The CJS isn’t fit for purpose. 2. The CPS isn’t fit for purpose. 3. The police force isn’t fit for purpose. 4. The NHS isn’t fit for purpose and 5. The sheepish police and CPS have to begin a new, highly expensive investigation that might lead to more highly expensive criminal proceedings against negligent doctors. Far cheaper and less damaging to leave one woman sat in a cell for the rest of her life. Plus it pleases the electorate, many of whom think she should be tortured and executed ASAP. All those votes gone if she’s even granted an appeal! Countless more millions votes gone when those services are found to have failed and she’s exonerated! And then there’s the shame they’d all face when they have to get on their knees and give Letby a grovelling apology and pay her very substantial damages. In summary, her acquittal would be a very bad day for a lot of very powerful people and institutions. It would shatter the electability of the government who have overseen all those institutions for the last 13 years. Very weirdly, Ben Myers KC, for Letby, agreed with the prosecution to exclude from the trial, statistical evidence that more or less proved her innocence, because it was confusing? It need be no more confusing than the information in this paragraph. It simply needs an independent expert to do the analysis and present the conclusions to the Jury. Why did you agree to exclude it Mr Myers? And why did you agree not to contest an absurd insulin reading, that forced Letby to say, the insulin must have been administered maliciously when there are multiple other explanations for the reading? I also understand Mr Myers had two paediatric medical experts of his own who reviewed Dr Evans’ reports and listened to his testimony. I understand they were in the courthouse waiting to testify in Lucy’s defence, waiting to challenge Dr. Evans’ testimony. Waiting and waiting in a nearby room, but never called to testify by Mr Myers. Why? And where is Mr. Myers now? There are multiple questions hanging over his defence of Letby, but he remains silent. There’s no reason for his silence…..or is there? Myers needs to explain how and WHY he failed to successfully defend her. It was in everyone’s interest that she was found guilty, except hers, and it’s in everyone’s interest that she doesn’t get an appeal, except hers. 1. Air embolism cannot be determined by imaging, and can only be determined soon after death, and requires the extraction of air from the circulatory system, and analysis of the composition of the air using gas chromatography. 2. The coroner found a cause of death in 5 out of 7 of the alleged murder cases. Two of them appeared to be, in part, related to aggressive CPR, two appeared to be due to undiagnosed hypoxic-ischemic encephalopathy and myocarditis, one of the infants received no autopsy, and the other infant was determined to have died due to prematurity. It is highly unusual for the cause of death to be altered years after the fact and using methodology that is not supported by the coroner’s office. 3. The two claims of insulin poisoning are not supported by the testing conducted, and the infants (who are still alive and well) did not have dangerously low or dangerously high blood glucose levels for any period of time. There are many physiological reasons that could explain their low blood glucose during the whole period. In one of the two cases, assumptions are being made on the basis of one test taken at a single time point, clearly inconsistent with the other medical readings, and contravening the manufacturer’s own instructions for use (see image below). The report detailing the conclusions from that single test violates the code of practice of the forensic science regulator. Moreover, it appears that some numerical error has been made in the necessary calculation, resulting in an outcome which is physiologically impossible (or the person responsible did not know about the so-called “hook effect”). The mismatch between C-peptide and insulin concentration does not prove that the excess insulin found must have been synthetic insulin. There are many other biological explanations for a mismatch. No testing was done to determine the origin of the insulin. Similarly, there are many innocent explanations for the detection of some insulin in a feeding bag. 4. The air embolism hypothesis is confusing because it fails to explain why some children apparently perished and others did not, and it has not been supported by the minimal necessary measurements. 5. In at least one case, Lucy is blamed with causing white matter brain injury. This claim is utterly dishonest. The infant who experienced this brain injury was born at 23 weeks gestation, and white matter brain injury is associated with such early births. Further, there is sufficient evidence that demonstrates that enterovirus and parechovirus infection has been linked to white matter brain injury in neonates, resulting in cerebral palsy. 6. At the time of the collapses and deaths of the infants, enterovirus and parechovirus had been reported in other hospitals. There is a history of outbreaks of these viruses in neonatal wards in hospitals around the world. They especially harm preterm infants who do not yet have a functioning immune system. It is reported that many parents of the infants were concerned that their ward had a virus (as was Lucy) and that Dr Gibbs denied this was so. To date we have seen no evidence to show they did any viral testing, and if they did what the results were. Oh and those so called ‘codes’ that the press used to say were codes for murder? That is one of the biggest lies and misleading evidence I have seen.

[@andyhowpog]

It's probably the most biased, one sided and unfair trial I have ever read about. However, as of now (5/9/24), doubts are growing on a weekly basis- it's starting to look embarrassing just 5 days before the Thirwall Inquiry.

[@jeaninemartin]

I live across the pond in the state of Washington. I am a retired RN in Infection Control & Prevention. Listening to this insane tragedy and how the physicians were not taken seriously and were actually blamed for thinking it could be a nurse is gut wrenching. If this had occurred at the hospital where I used to work this is what would have happened. * after 1st death Infection Control would have reviewed the chart and then reviewed the case with the Pediatric Infectious Disease Physician * after 2nd death Infection Control would be creating an Excel spreadsheet comparing the 2nd death to the 1st; listing everything from diagnosis, room number, ALL similarities with staff, and so on. At this point Risk Management would be involved with Infection Control and the Regional Infection Control Manager would be notified. * after the 3rd death, the nurse would have been identified as the common denominator in all the cases and the heads of Infection Control, Risk Management, and the Regional Office would come to a solution. I am not saying all of this as criticism, I’m confused as to why other departments such as IC and Risk were not involved. One death is horrible but with two deaths occurring, no one is working normal hours anymore and charts are torn apart, nurses are interviewed, practices are reviewed, rounds on that floor are constantly occurring and if deaths continue the Center for Disease Control & Prevention on the other side of the country would be notified and invited to come to the hospital. Please excuse this expression, “shit would hit the fan.” Something would be done…it would not be allowed to continue even if it meant doubling up on nurses for each baby. Do you think policies will be changed in this hospital going forward?

[@kevinjohnlancaster8333]

I think the babies in this environment were exceptionally poorly to start with. If it had been a more normal situation where the babies were born healthy I think the deaths would have set off a similar chain of thinking.

[@jeaninemartin]

@@kevinjohnlancaster8333 thank you Kevin for your thoughts.

[@rachelallison5840]

Wow, this was really an insightful post. It definitely shows negligence on the hospital’s part. A change is needed & a whole new admin staff is a good start.

[@jeaninemartin]

@@rachelallison5840 you are in the right track!

[@zoraxye4325]

Your procedure sounds very thorough. They would have done something similar but not want to tarnish “that sweet nurse Lucy”. Management were preoccupied (WRONGLY) with reputation than conducting a thorough investigation. Call me cynical but the hospital will “learn lessons”, rotate staff, lament and cry about “missed opportunities” then revert to the toxic culture which created the negative climate that allows “personalities” and non clinical managers to “lead”. My comment is not to impugn all of the devoted, conscientious and ethical doctors and nurses at the Countess of Chester Hospital. Lucy Letby was ONE demonic nurse empowered by STUPID managers.

[@xensonar9652]

CCTV in the room. Right now. It's an emergency. Every day they are not installed is another failure.

[@seanrm]

Lucy Letby's "personal relationships" within the hospital will eventually come to light.

[@jessiemacgregor1357]

I know of a GP who refused to give a referal for an XRay the Dr felt it was a waist of time since the patients was an 87yrs old who was a carer for a disabled 55yr old man and the old 87yr old was suffering sciatica nerve pain in his back and down his leg. He had to lift the 55yr old into and out of the bath daily. Now tell me at what age are we to old to be given help and left to suffer but still to have to care for our loved ones.That GP knew his situation but didnt give a shit. That GP should be stripped of the qualifications and not allowed to ever practice again. When did the hypocratic oath drop from the Drs swearing in ceremony. This is disgusting and the NHS has to answer from the Top of the chain to sort this type of disgusting and cruel treatment out.

[@Brian-om2hh]

Personally, I'd have asked to see another doctor......

[@Tia-Louisa]

My mother was stuck in a ward of hell in Wellington Hospital in New Zealand where elderly were neglected and abused. Wellington Hospital NEVER apologised or took responsibility. ABSOULTELY ABHORRENT!!!!!!!!

[@Reevay762]

What's shocking is that noone from management is held accountable! Enabling at it's finest!

[@imho4165]

Management are to blame…the NHS cover up a lot deaths due to their neglect. I lost my premature son who was doing well and when I addressed lessons to be learnt from his death the NHS consultants completely ignored us. I have no trust in the NHS and I would urge everyone to question and challenge any medical treatment you undergo on the NHS. Unfortunately we do not have qualified medical professions and the NHS is so understaffed the government would recruit anyone. I have witnessed the way nurses were treating babies in neonatal and soon as a parent you raise concerns they quickly cover it up. I honestly believe a lot of neonatal deaths are covered up using the excuse of prematurity. I recall one of the student doctor decided to go back to his country and when he was saying bye to me I could see concern in his eyes and that what he learnt in that hospital was not nice so he no longer wants to stay in this country. At that time I wish I had raised my concerns but my focus was on my son and getting him home soon and this is going back to 2019 plus this was a well known London hospital. My advice to everyone when you are being treated by the NHS keep an eye and question everything as they are lacking a lot of professional staff.

[@Harry-fk5of]

How are they to blame? They are guilty of total negligence, but they didn't murder anyone. I do agree though that nurses and doctors have inadvertently killed a number of patients throughout their careers due to poor practice or incompetence, seems to be a grey area of risk when you go to the hospital.

[@debsn7772]

@@Harry-fk5ofI know a former nurse who told me a long time ago that euthanasia is widely available in the NHS - said it was a strategy for dealing with terminally ill bed blockers and relatives never questioned. It’s always gone on and always will.

[@Woodman-Spare-that-tree]

I have been harmed by the NHS and so were my mother and a friend. I don’t trust any doctor or nurse anymore

[@CL-he4jz]

midazolam and morphine. ng163. (renamed from Liverpool care pathway)

[@smeramajid8834]

Absolutely agree, I have witnessed nurses bullying patients, my own son was in neo natal for the first couple of weeks, what I found very odd that all 6 babies in that room slept through the night, these way babies under 3 weeks. I stayed for two nights with mine but myself became sick that I had to leave. Also during covid whilst in hospital with my mother who was terminal, I saw a very ugly side to some nurses who bullied, mistreated and even showed no empathy to patients, one particular lady kept calling for help, but no one would attend her, the patient managed to walk to the desk only to be humiliated for wetting herself. These nurse kept saying how busy and short staffed they are, but we’re literally gossiping and talking about weekend plans. This was just one incident during them two nights on that ward, even heard nurses say how they lied to a relative of a patient saying he’s okay when he wasn’t, glad we put up a fight with one in particular, and took care of our mother ourselves.

[@mrretired2715]

So management completely ignored what they were supposed to manage.

[@EcosseOuiser]

Now let’s see a timeline on how the NHS management who ignored warnings left her free to kill & they walked away from their jobs unpunished. They are complicit

[@apes4days254]

The editing around the laptop interview was the strangest thing I've ever seen from a news program.

[@wackthegood8884]

If Lucy Letby had weighed 250 lbs and was covered in acne, I wonder if she'd had got so far? The fact that she has the face of an angel let her get away with it for so long I believe. What a devastating loss of innocent life.

[@olliemccann9585]

The kids all got cheffed

[@OneWingedRose]

What an awful awful awful management system. Even if there weren't killers out there, ignoring potential problems for as long as you can (allowing them to fester) should be a fireable offense.

[@kevinjohnlancaster8333]

They will be fired. Many say their pensions should be taken away from them but that is unlikely to happen because of the way the UK State Pensions are constructed and the rights of dependents. The test case which could well arise from all of this will be when the parent of a dead victim, or the carer of a victim who was damaged but not killed by her actions sues the manager. My guess is the first claim would be unsuccessful but the second almost certanly would. Then they would be sued for every penny, as they should be.

[@mazzy18]

A public inquiry needs to be conducted

[@Hickalum]

A retrial is required before a public enquiry.

[@Brian-om2hh]

@@Hickalum The only retrial there is going to be, is one for the infant who had no verdict reached last time. Letby herself will not be getting a retrial or an appeal.

[@Xuyesi]

Why do news outlets protect the hospital management by not focusing on their enabling? It gives the serial killer so much more thrill knowing they can keep doing it.

[@tanhansel92]

My son was born prematurely and was in the hospital for close to a week after birth. This news is so hard to see, how could this happened.

[@sweet11440]

Last year I lost my baby at 21 weeks at Southmead Hospital, Bristol.I was calling the antenatal unit according to their maternity’s book protocol they did not let me come for check up , the nurses keep telling me have paracetamol and they don’t want any unnecessary admission, and after two days I beg to the nurses to come their and even they were very rude to me over the phone and I managed to go there and I had my late miscarriage at 21 weeks , and many nurses keep telling me it meant to happen no sympathy whatsoever for me my child died after 1 hour after born , they explained me the child will die soon, but hardly anybody was with me , only me and my husband, I didn’t like how I was treated there, I asked them for enquiry they did not give me any particular answer too felt so vulnerable. I think now nurses are too rude to look after others, I am just telling my experience so don’t feel personal.

[@IndigoCosmic]

Please file a complaint.

[@ragdollkid1338]

They give parents privacy to be with their dying child. I think they were trying to offer you comfort that it wasn't your fault as many mothers wonder if they did something to cause the early birth. So sorry for your loss

[@anonp2958]

@@ragdollkid1338 You have clearly not read her post properly. If you had, you would not make such a foolish remark.

[@Ida_Dunne_Moore]

@@sweet11440 that is appalling. Tragically there are lots of stories like these. Every couple of years we hear of a scandal at a maternity or neonatal unit, and countess of Chester was beset by these problems. One of the baby's was full term. The first time mother was ignored when she reported her waters breaking. Told to go home. Told on the phone not to go in. They let her go 60 hours before caesarean and never gave antibiotics. That baby would have been fine with timely medical care, and I can only imagine how they dismissed the mum as first time, anxious etc when she was reported less movement. It's just outrageous. My best guess is that the workers probably went into their field wanting to do the best but become battle weary from a huge number of tragedies. They just can't offer beds, but are under pressure not to admit it. When my sister died, my mum wasnt even allowed to hold her, and one of the midwives, apparently trying to compliment my mum, said "your tummy is all flat! It's like you never had a baby!" Just unbelievable stuff. I'm so, so sorry. That sounds unspeakably raw and painful. It should never have happened to you or your daughter x

[@Nicekittiesandchoclatemouse]

As a health care provider & educator , I adopted the Quranic Sura : Whoever killed a soul, it should be considered as though he had killed all mankind; and that whoever saved it should be regarded as though he had saved all mankind. Sua5 , Chapter 6 My sincere condolences & prayers to the babies families. And to Letby's parents.

[@endtimescrucialinfo]

Islam is a false religion. Muslims claim to believe that Jesus is a prophet to them, yet they deny that Jesus is God, which clearly is a contradiction, seeing as Jesus said He is God. They also allow divorce and remarriage, which is specifically against the words of Jesus Christ. It also says in the Muslim "holy book" (the Koran) that Muhammed (their false prophet) "married" & 'consummated' a "marriage" with a girl that was younger than 10 years old. The Koran also teaches that it is permissible to enslave any non-Muslim. Islam also allows polygamy up to 4 wives, and Islamic countries are some of the worst places for women to live in the entire world. A true religion is not started by a pervert who made a name for himself by beheading & enslaving non-Muslims (which the Koran documents), by denying that Jesus is God & is the Son of God, etc... God is perfect: His true faith doesn't have contradictions. The Catholic faith does not have contradictions. Traditional Catholicism is the one true religion. Sadly, most people who claim to be Catholic today are not Catholic, because they accept false religions, among other heresies which have been condemned by the church. The idea that all religions are acceptable or are all the same is false & is condemned by the Catholic Church. Someone of good-will will see the problems with a false religion like Islam (like I've cited above) & then God can lead them out of Islam so that they convert, but they have to choose to leave an evil false religion like Islam. For all the gods of the Gentiles are devils: but the Lord made the heavens. - Psalm 95:5 But the things which the heathens sacrifice, they sacrifice to devils, and not to God. And I would not that you should be made partakers with devils. - 1 Corinthians 10:20 Outside The Catholic Church There Is Absolutely No Salvation kzbin.info/www/bejne/hJutqKODm7aZgrc

[@eleanorrigby7897]

These people have no faith, they've gone astray beyond the point of no return. May God have mercy on the departed souls of the young. Ameen.❤😢

[@mjhay1830]

Wise words 🙏🏽

[@shazanali692]

Lol 30 million Pakistanis are in hunger, 900million Muslims are only living on 2 quid a day, where is your Sura for those babies.

[@eleanorrigby7897]

@@shazanali692 are you trying to make a point? Cuz I don't see it !!

[@lauralangham9657]

Any medical directors that delayed the investigations should be put on trial also.

[@mickclarke5741]

Absolutely

[@StellaKnights]

I was placed on a maternity ward during my training which was being investigated for abnormally high mortality rate , the atmosphere was intolerable , and my overwhelming impression of the staff there was that many were insufferable narcissists who felt above any critique , as hard as that is to imagine perhaps nursing attracts this type of person as well as the genuinely caring

[@CL-he4jz]

yes. you are absolutely right I think. this was my experience recently with a gaggle of " mean girls" at the nurses desk in a cancer unit. there was at least one who was actually enjoying repeatedly making very ill people's lives more difficult.

[@CL-he4jz]

when I trained in a physical discipline a few years ago, two of the teachers on the course were also elderly nurses/ hospice workers too. they were the hardest and most narcissistic people id encountered. They viscerally enjoyed bullying.

[@beaulieuc8910]

agreed

[@ericabailey7329]

Senior medical staff should run the hospitals. Not non medical they don’t understand the true nature of true medical needs .As a retired registered nurse. I remember managers being brought into the Health Service. They are more concerned about money than the health of the nation. 😢

[@paulkendo656]

Death Penalty needed here.

[@riptideog8783]

Don’t see why not they died bc of her so why does she get to live

[@jamiehughes5573]

Why should she get free housing and food for life. If the government decide to reintroduce the death penalty, I'm all for it

[@MacauleyFoxton]

The death penalty will never be reintroduced, we live in a left wing shambles of a country.

[@MacauleyFoxton]

Liberals allow these parasites to keep on living.

[@lugwalder]

Agreed

[@lesliespeaker668]

There are striking parallels between the reactions of the hospital's management to the dead babies and how the Catholic Church reacts to sexual abuse reports. It gets ignored. In the hope the problem goes away on its own? Gambling with childrens' lives? No serial killer or serial rapist will stop on their own. The amount of damage these individuals are causing is immense. It goes far beyond the direct victim's. There's the families, it causes tremendous trauma that usually affects every member of the victim's family. Then the staff or members of the church or wherever else these things are happening, entertainment business, etc. All these people around the psychopath criminals are suffering without a doubt in one way or another, the events themselves are traumatic. And there's always the moral dilemma while this is still on going undetected that comes up when a suspicion is growing, that can erode and destroy a workplace. Victims who have survived are traumatized or will be affected by physical health issues caused by the abuse. And yes the entire hospital gets a bad rep as well, which impacts the entire staff negatively. There's so much fallout that is eroding the societal fabric around these acts. All caused by a single individual. They really must get a kick out of that. I think for certain jobs a psychological evaluation and screening should be mandatory. It's not uncommon in other occupations so why not for all jobs where people could nudge a person who is vulnerable and at their mercy over the edge and kill or harm them in the most hideous and cowardly secret way. Surely there's ways to notice them? The issue is that it goes into territory where you discriminate against neurodiverse people who haven't commited any crime.

[@FurnitureFan]

Great points. Absolutely, but what can professionals test for? I feel bad for the staff, who had every reason to suspect that one of them was responsible. I mean, if it wasn't her, it must have been someone - what a horrible strain to be put under. I can't understand why the managers didn't step in years ago. All their talk about investigations that never happened. Yet if they had investigated, the evidence was obviously there after her crimes.

[@Littlemouse884]

OMG this is just so incredibly upsetting I can't even fathom how on earth she could be so incredibly cruel to such beautiful vunerable and precious little babies - it's just beyond comprehension. I dont even know how the parents could EVER recover from such a pointless and unnecessary and totally preventable tragedy 😭😭😭

[@ivtch51]

I am incredulous about the ex-hospital manager's statements in this video. The unforgivable delays in bringing this case before the police needs a thorough investigation. And now an investigation calling only for voluntary witnesses is another layer of delay in knowing the full truth.

[@juliet3827]

WHY ON EARTH aren't those NHS people sued for gross negligence? The families of the killed infants should get themselves a good lawyer and start proceedings for a class-action lawsuit!

[@angierucinski5694]

They all predate on the most vulnerable members of society, the very young and the very old. Utterly cowardly and shameless.

[@aynos629]

Only that they are the ones looking after them too. We need to have a serious look at ourselves. Anybody that hasn't done a 12 hour shift in a hospital, home or similar may want to refrain to consider the abuse that the people working suffer and the weight of the continuous responsibility. What that girl has done is unforgivable but there is no way she is well in the head and the system who is responsible for the wellbeing of the babies and her fitness to do the job is working

[@upthechels90]

I have worked in a care home and would never dream of such a thing!!! Stress is not an excuse for murdering babies. You are nuts!!! Also she hasn't been diagnosed with a mental illness. Some people are just evil!!!

[@silver4831]

@@aynos629 Stop defending her.

[@samdobie6748]

​@@aynos629 She is the only one responsible for her actions.

[@JamesSmith-qs4hx]

And the deaths continued after she had been removed from the job....🤔🤔🤔

[@rafiawaseem9003]

Lots of love and condolences to the parents that lost their kids. ❤ This lady is a psychopath.

[@curiositycloset2359]

It's like the old saying goes "kill seven, you're a murderer, kill millions, it's a sudden death statistic".

[@GreenYoshi3881]

The hospital and those executives who did nothing about it for 2 years should be sued and found guilty as well. Smh 😢

[@BradBrassman]

What dreadful pathology is it that drives such an allegedly dedicated nurse to murder her helpless victims? We must at least attempt to study her in order to understand more!

[@bri-annaedwardine1697]

I am not sure she did it to be honest. There is no direct evidence against her. I feel she's been scapegoated. I may be wrong, and hope I am in a way because it would be a terrible injustice.

[@Harry-fk5of]

This is what I really want to understand too. What was she thinking, why did she make those choices? Was it impulsive, or was it an addiction to the drama? Or did she think she was doing the professional thing, in a deluded way?

[@Harry-fk5of]

@@bri-annaedwardine1697 So do you think she was just a totally incompetent nurse to have been actively present when all of those unexplained deaths happened? Too many coincidences and links between the deaths such as similar unexplained rashes that are present when air is injected. Surely you think she's responsible in some way, whether you believe it was deliberate or not.

[@janemacleod578]

I feel desperately sorry for her parents at this point as it seems there were no real childhood concerns. No doubt things will emerge though through friends, colleagues and family in the course of time. From her post-it notes it would seem that she was willing and possibly urging to be caught. It happens in other not so serious cases where the perpetrator leaves evidence around in order to be exposed to their misdemeanour - such as extra-marital affairs etc. re text messages etc. because they can no longer deal with the deceipt. I think she got to the point that she was unable to stop herself as she got such a thrill from the drama that the pace of her crimes just increased at at a faster pace over time. So, so sad and tragic. How do we prevent these cases when people seem so normal though? It takes a special individual to spot these types in early days.

[@MuffletLove]

@@Harry-fk5ofcoincidences aren't proof though. There's a very good reason we say people are 'innocent until proven guilty'!

[@prakashrajput5332]

This happening in a country like UK where human life is given so much importance is just sickening. I pray for the parents who lost their child. May God be with them in these hard times.

[@constantinvaldor3742]

🤣🤣🤣 I don't know what UK you're talking about. The UK that puts high importance on human life 🤣 that's really funny

[@prakashrajput5332]

If you think other visit Asian and Asian countries.@@constantinvaldor3742

[@julieworsley5048]

Th UK puts importance on human life of the upper classes the government doesn't really care about anyone else

[@mus139]

They should sue the hospital for every penny.

[@FurnitureFan]

​@@mus139I really don't think that's the answer. That's going to be money that was raised to buy an expensive scanner and save lives. It's not the money, it's the fact that this can happen when someone can gain access to vulnerable patients. Plus the fact that the families and medical staff made such efforts to prevent deaths. They didn't let this go. They kept pushing. They deserve a decent healthcare budget so they can do their jobs.

[@wasifulalam1393]

BBC does one thing properly, they are skipping the story of the Indian Co-worker who first caught her years ago. But turned down due to his racial existence

[@pd9605]

Very young, very old and the disabled who trust with unconditional love and ARE God's light and example for us all! My daughter was abused this year at a hospital where I once worked and I stupidly really felt that the hospital would want to find the truth and prevent it from happening again. I was clear about not seeking monetary compensation (as if any amount could!). Instead they closed the internal investigation, a mockery and a slap in the face. A response from two people that was complete fiction and decades of my daughter's life that proves it. While families are grieving or surviving, these corporate cold CEO's and shareholders are ONLY concerned with publicity. When will they learn PEOPLE want them to step up, not cover up!

[@elemiang4001]

Trying to protect their reputation, look at their reputation now! 🤦🏾‍♀️ My condolences to the families ❤🙏🏾

[@MMKLYH]

That is an absolute disgrace, the higher ups in the nhs need to be held accountable, the first tome a query was raised she should have been investigated, 10 innocent childrens lives could have been saved if it wasnt for complete negligence

[@user-yv8gx5vk7j]

Why the management, hasn't been charged with gross criminal neglect, resulting in the deaths of six children, is completely beyond me. Despite the grave concerns, being expressed by hospital consultants, and other whistle-blowers. The hospital administration still chose to ignore and sweep away, the anxieties being raised. The arrogance is mind-blowing.

[@susancorgi]

It's so sickening that they let this happened for 13 babies to do something. Should have investigated extensively after a few dead.

[@sumz1721]

"The directors were not responsible for what happened.They had some opportunities to get to the bottom of what happened but they didnt" Ermmmmm excuse me that means they are responsible and should be put in to jail too

[@ninjaninja9954]

I hate the cover ups in the medical world to try to sweep the murders under the carpet to keep the reputation and money of the hospital safe! Now those people that tried to cover it up should be charged too for obstruction of justice. How can 7 clinical experts come with evidence to say there is possible murders going on and then the boss tries to sweep it under the carpet and make those 7 clinical experts apologise to the perpetrator? Those bosses should be in JAIL

[@cranjismcbasketball2565]

The management above her is no less guilty. Other nurses and doctors came to them with claims about what she did, and they brushed them off instead of looking into them. If they had taken action sooner, then so many lives wouldn't have been lost.

[@houndjog]

It was the management who brainwashed her into thinking it was a good thing .....

[@kevinjohnlancaster8333]

Technically they are LESS guilty - they did not cause the babies to die or suffer terribly. But, the failure to respond to or acknowledge the prima facie concerns expressed to them is negligence so gross as to be complicit in the crimes. This aspect is the one which genuinely surprised and shocked me - my experience of poor management has always been an over eagerness to contemplate the most minor reports of wrongdoing - that has often been seen as a British public service problem. Thus A disrespected B because A farted in the presence of B. B complained, A then suspended for three months while a tribunal investigated whether the incident occurred. Tribunal finds that A appeared to have farted in presence of B, A repremanded but re-instated but will not be promoted in future. B takes constructive dismissal as manangement did not support him against victimisation by A. I use this example only because I assume this has never happened because of farting - but many of the complaints are scarcely more trivial.

[@helenalovelock1030]

Of course they are less guilty 🤦‍♀️

[@wendyarchergym]

I had a case of theft from patients (elderly), never the full amount, just part of their cash. We looked at off duty and found a common person on duty, a maid. How to get the evidence, consulted, limited choices couldn't use CCTv it would invade patients privacy, so in the end we let it been known that we had a suspect, and were trying to get proof. The individual left, anf the thefts stopped. Its hard to get evidence sometimes.

[@WonkyDonkey3000]

* be * and * It's

[@FurnitureFan]

Fair enough, you all did what you could in that case. And I suppose money will go missing from someone else in future. But in this case, there was evidence available - the hospital simply didn't look into the cause of deaths for several years. When they did, they found evidence. Besides - If LL had moved on & found another job, several more patients would be dead, wouldn't they?

[@lexx1235]

To think about the amount of people wanting a job getting turned down because they just refused to get rid of a pos of a staff in that role. The fact it took so long to sort this out makes me lose more respect for our health services.

[@edwinthank7443]

This frightens me even more to think that how many more must be out there right now with the same intention as Lucy’s putting the face of an angel but inside being the darkest evil. A new “NHS FEAR” unlocked 😢

[@lorainisrael]

There are not many more out there. Those cases are truly rare. But there are thousands of people working in NHS, so inevitably from time to time there will be crazy ones. They are not as scary, actually, as the management which has an incentive to hide any crimes. The society cannot prevent some individuals from wanting to kill, but we can improve the systems so that the actual crimes would become really hard to commit and hence they would become less frequent.

[@edwinthank7443]

@@lorainisrael exactly. More scrutiny in place to make us safer

[@FurnitureFan]

​@@lorainisraelYes, absolutely. I have friends and family in Britain and I would hate to think the system can't be improved. Certainly these deaths should have been examined much sooner.

[@nirmalsiva1]

Please take action on those who failed to investigate during the 2 years from the first death, they are more responsible than this convicted. Rest in Peace all those Lovely infants

[@Annieshaukat]

The management is responsible for this careless behaviour and ignoring the facts or issues raised by the doctors. NHS sucks ! Being a doctor myself, I am highly disappointed.

[@n00bspanker]

Actually the management didn't kill any babies. Only this woman did.

[@isindecisive1708]

NHS saves thousands of lives on the daily

[@chrisj2502]

​@@n00bspankerthey ignored warnings and could of saved lives don't make excuses for them.

[@CL-he4jz]

​@@isindecisive1708isnt it time for another booster

[@isindecisive1708]

@@CL-he4jz are you dumb? People who get saved by the NHS range from people in car accidents, to cancer patients, to people with genetic diseases, to suicidal people, to the elderly, to birthing mothers, to victims of assault, to fire survivors, etc. Why are you people obsessed with those that died during Covid, and what their families and immunocompromised friends have been doing to avoid the same fate? I don’t understand why you people care so much about it.

[@AW-kr9fl]

All those saying she was innocent make me sick. It was blatantly obvious she was guilty

[@Brian-om2hh]

The "she is innocent" crowd begin to look foolish when you discover there were 33'000 pages of evidence for the jury to examine.....

[@TavsIsAbout]

How are we supposed to trust nurses, doctors and the NHS ever again??? There needs to be an Independent body for conduct

[@chrisj2502]

The same way we trust politicians we have short memories.

[@CL-he4jz]

it would be wise not to trust NHS, govt or media.

[@FurnitureFan]

I'd trust a series of pathology reports more than PR statements. Have all the British pathologists been let go?

[@Ookamikage13]

The people who cared more about protecting the reputation of the higher ups, the company, should be held accountable together with the serial killer they fought to hide and protect.

[@knightlautrec4311]

I'm afraid to say this is not unique to these managers, this hospital, this sector. The issue of poor management is pervasive and systemic throughout the public sector. It is fundamentally and critically broken.

[@gookey9924]

It's likely her motive was simply this . She struggled in her own personal relationships and was " acutely envious " or couldn't accept other couples happiness hence she had searched for them after on social media !! Sounds silly but probably true. !

[@user-ie5hj9bb9m]

Good point

[@stevemccann4166]

Suggested from texts she had a crush on a married doctor and did it for sympathy and attention from him as always texting him when deaths occurred and telling him about her feelings, etc.

[@winstoningram99]

​@@stevemccann4166would make a good C5 drama. Give it a decade and they'll do one. Once the dust settles

[@gookey9924]

@@stevemccann4166 Either way she did it for selfish relationship linked reasons.

[@stevemccann4166]

@@gookey9924 None of the other prosecution witnesses effected her until that Dr A appeared In a video call to give evidence and then she started crying and wanted to leave.🤨

[@user-lu2xf4mu4d]

What a shocking case. Why on earth did she do that?!😢

[@mus139]

Fruitcake.

[@Hickalum]

Did she do it ? Or is she a scapegoat for a dire unsanitary hospital ? The core of the case against her is that she was there when deaths happened … By that logic every nurse in the NHS is a killer !

[@FurnitureFan]

Because she could. I mean, she's a serial killer. That's what they do. More vital is to keep asking why no one called the police?

[@c12onnor]

There is no evidence proving she did any of it.

[@Badboybonsai]

We need capital punishment for these criminals.

[@tuomasholo]

The executives may not have been responsible for their deaths but they certainly allowed the deaths to continue as they ignored, delayed or hoped the problem would go away. Each one of them should be fired and shamed because it was their own staff that raised their suspicions.

[@MichelleWilliamson-dp5nj]

The NHS needs to stop policing itself!

[@-Chunk]

This is what they want you to think!!! E.g. Privatisation. This is is an EXTREME example. Why is no one talking about the amazing work 99.9% of every NHS worker does, day in day out. Its like a islamic terrorist attack. We’ve learnt not to ban muslims from walking down the street. But the powers that be want the electorate to call for “stronger controls” in hospitals, so they can justify privatisation!!!! WAKE UP!

[@taz09216]

Amazing that her whiteness is not linked to her being a criminal. If only she was Black and had accidentally stepped on someone in the train, it would be on the news.

[@DavidW-ng5zv]

There is no such thing as "whiteness".

[@ssegalumajimmy266]

Sorry to all parents and the families.😢😢

[@R2D2C3POSKYWALKER]

The management must face the law for murdering babies who could be saved.

[@wendyarchergym]

On every Executive Team in the NHS hospitals, there is a Medical Director and Nurse Director, they are there to lead and support clinicians. Most of the managers at clinical level have a clinical background, ie departments are lead by a Consultant and a Lead Nurse. The question is why this strong group of professionals were unable to ensure that this case took so long. All neonatal units should consider CCTV, patient privacy is not the problem, but even then a lot of actions may be considered natural care. But in this case it might have helped prove the case against this individual earlier.

[@FurnitureFan]

It also might be considered that there were detectives available who were perfectly well qualified to investigate - and yet no one called them in. So many people should be asking why this wasn't escalated to a police matter. It reminds me horribly of all the children abused in care of secretive religious institutions. Now we have mandatory reporting in place. It's not hard to see why this wasn't usual previously - religious people take vows of secrecy and obedience. Why is there no pathway, no process where such crimes can be stopped early on, rather than become serial?

[@ydnallah1541]

Alison Kelly, the nursing head who helped cover it up should be charged with manslaughter

[@andrewjenery1783]

Why she did it isn't the only question. Why did it take so long for this to become public knowledge and how was she able to do what she did without anyone else present?