The Hidden Problem with Seagull Guitars...

[@danieleidet7131]

I’ve had a Seagull rustic mini jumbo for 15 years and I live it. It takes a beating and keeps on ticking and still sounds great.

[@BeauHannamGuitars]

Nice. THey sound good

[@gunnar1797]

Coming from a Non luthiers perspective I play my seagull more than my Martin and my Taylor combined. It sounds and plays incredible and that’s the only thing that ever mattered to me

[@BeauHannamGuitars]

Well said- I like the sound of this seagull and if it inspires you to pick it up then its a good guitar for you. the only trouble is if it ever needs a neck reset- but let your future self worry about that!! hahah

[@tompelham7035]

Same !

[@FiddleSticks800]

Oh ya. The epoxy in the neckjoint is insanity. What years was this done? I bought a cedar top s6 from a pawn shop, and still love the sound of my guitar.

[@tompelham7035]

I purchased a Seagull six string acoustic to take along on extended road trip in order to leave the more expensive guitars safe at home. Turns out the Seagull gets more use than the rest! Now I find myself saying, why did I buy an expensive Taylor;)

[@BeauHannamGuitars]

dont worry to much- this neck joint isn't a problem until its a problem

[@ArmandoVegaTV]

Interesting video... very informative. I can honestly say, I worked for Godin for 2 and 1/2 years (2019 - 2021) and never had any quality complaints. Our biggest issue was we couldn't keep them instock. I'm curious if the same construction is used on the Godin Acoustics and Art and Lutherie Acoustics? I walked away with 3 guitars (2 EG's and 1 AG) that I absolutely love. I also worked for Yamaha Guitars for over 15 years. So I love hearing this kind of deep level perspective on the repair side and learning how guitars do with age.

[@BeauHannamGuitars]

Thanks. I think this epoxied on neck system is very strong and good (good as in it seems to do what was intended which is to minimize the body join hump) . My problem isn’t in the short term but in the long term 10-20-30 years when it needs a neck reset and the epoxy deep in the block makes it very difficult to do- so much so as to make a lot of these guitars either new necks or throw away- or slide guitars.

[@kylehuang6909]

@@BeauHannamGuitars The design make sound better?Why?Why they design this

[@BeauHannamGuitars]

@@kylehuang6909 I never said this neck design makes the guitar sound better. It does help the problem of body join hump.

[@georgebarry8640]

@@BeauHannamGuitars I agree and own a number of Seagulls. None made after the epoxy. I play professionally and need instruments that "deliver the goods" AND can be serviced if need be.

[@drguitar9532]

I love it when I get a repair in that the owner and other shops have given up on. You have great persistance and patience (these attributes are needed for this line of work). Though the unseen part of the repair is not particularly pretty, the visible repair is and you have given the next repairman a fighting chance if other neck work needs to be done down the road. I recently removed and reset a dovetail neck joint that was epoxied on. It came out great, but it is always darkest before the dawn. Great video!

[@BeauHannamGuitars]

Thank you so much- you describe repair work very well.

[@bjfox620]

Thank you so much for making this video. I had a Seagull entourage mini-jumbo that I played every day for 3 years. It was so playable and responsive (seems like that might be due to the lack of solid construction around the neck joint). All in all, it took the slightest of tumbles and the entire neck joint/shoulder collapsed in on itself. I had never seen a guitar literally implode on itself in the way that guitar did and it’s frustrated me ever since. You’ve revealed a lot of what seems like it was the root cause. Thank you!!

[@BeauHannamGuitars]

Thanks and my pleasure!. It can probably be fixed so it might be worth it.

[@brandohhall]

Bro, i just found your videos and I cannot wait to go through all of your back catalog. Thank you so much for sharing your expertise. Incredible work, my friend.

[@BeauHannamGuitars]

Thanks- unfortunately, they get worse and more boring as you go backward! Hahahha. I actually edit now! Hahah

[@LucasRichardStephens]

Normand Boucher started as a window maker (I will relate my little anecdote, though I have no way of knowing if it is really true), he rented a Martin guitar for a short while, with the intention of seeing how it was made, with a view to having a go at building guitars himself. He dismantled the Martin in order to suss it out, then glued it all back together before returning the guitar. Not sure if he got away with it. I have an early all solid spruce Manik made by Norman (76 maybe), you would love the ingenious way the neck is bolted to the block, floating free of the top, really lovely sounding guitar. I had a visit from Dianne Cluck at one time (she plays a seagul guitar), her comment about my Manik was that it had the nicest bass E she had ever heard. I enjoyed your film very much and will check out the others on your channel, best wishes, Lucas.

[@BeauHannamGuitars]

Thanks Lucas :)

[@amitnewton]

Thanks a ton, Beau!!! You have solved a problem that has been plaguing me for more than a year. I have an Art & Lutherie guitar - a 12-string - and for the life of me I could not understand what a block of wood was doing underneath the fretboard. It too is a bolt-on neck. It was in because the heel was lifting and the action was high. But even after sticking it down, the action remained high, so a neck reset is needed. Awrite then, where did my flush saw go???!!

[@BeauHannamGuitars]

Flush saw is the best way to take this off if needed (after I gluing the extension)

[@smandez2023]

I’ve heard about this issue from the forums, but you really demonstrated very well what is being talked about. It’s really unfortunate that these become “throw away” guitars. And, as word gets out, many luthiers will refuse or refer repairs of these types? As cost encroaches on the actual value of the guitar. Do you know if this joint is used on the upper end models too, like on the D’Agostino guitars?

[@BeauHannamGuitars]

Thanks. I'm not certain what instruments have this but I presume all their acoustics regardless of price (this guitar cost $1600 new). I'm not sure if their archtops have this neck joint. (I should call them and ask so I can include it in the description!)

[@rjlchristie]

Jose Ramirez lll would not glue right to the edge of the fingerboard when gluing the fingerboard to the body By leaving 5 to 8mm on either side of the board free of glue any split of the spruce top will likely take place under the fingerboard close to the line where the glue ceases. I suppose the same could be applied to the block/fingerboard glue face, eliminating need for flaring.

[@BeauHannamGuitars]

Interesting- I didn’t know that

[@tedcook8749]

Thanks Beau! Information like this will motivate me to keep going through the hassle of tuning down my guitars by several steps as much as possible for long periods- the advantage of having several other guitars to play! I had always wondered about the construction of these Godin family guitars- I am somewhat addicted to their cedar topped variants!

[@BeauHannamGuitars]

Thanks- Yep- I liked this guitar and cedar always sounds good. It’s a good idea to detune every guitar but it’s a hassle and not many do it (I don’t)

[@geesonnit]

Please make a follow up video in relations to the positives of Seagul Artist Mosaics in comparison to other top end brands out there! These are top quality guitars! Absolutely beautiful instruments.

[@BeauHannamGuitars]

If I get another in for repair I’ll do that :)

[@WoodworkerDan]

Thank you for posting this. I used to do minor repair work for a music shop, and I worked on a very nice Seagull guitar that seemed to have a mind of its own. I would get it set up properly, only to have everything move days or weeks or months later. Here in Michigan things tend to move a bit with seasonal change, but this was extraordinary. After seeing your video, I think it might have been an issue with the neck joint. That would certainly explain what was happening.

[@BeauHannamGuitars]

Could be the epoxy didn’t set properly or it had shattered in the cold enough to move slightly- and slightly is enough to make a good setup bad.

[@J.C...]

I guess I don't get this. My guitars stay inside where it's always 74* F and a similar humidity level year round. They never "move". 🤷

[@PaisleyPatchouli]

Hi Beau, I’m an expat Canuck - lifetime pro musician that has been living in the States for around 40 years, mostly in Manhattan, but recently retired to the Southwest. I’ve owned more than a dozen Godin guitars of just about every brand name and variation, (6th Ave, S&P, Seagull, A&L, parlors, folks, dreds, 12 strings, etc… and have loved them all; however the only one I currently have in my stable is their A&L Ami nylon parlor size cedar/cherry that I got used (for $90!) and which I electrified with a homemade K&K type passive 12mm piezo-dot system that sounds lovely. In recent years all my other acoustics have been upgraded to Waterloo model WL-K by Collings - a double 0 parlor type based on Gibson’s rare Kel Kroydon, a depression-era catalog guitar; while my other Waterloo, a model WL-S is a single 0, 12 fret slothead which is based upon the 1920s OS Stellas. Waterloos are truly out of this world guitars - in another league than the Godins, (pricewise as well) but the Godins still have their place, and as a sometime teacher I always recommend any variant of the Godin family, especially if found used at a good price. I have an interesting (at least I think so) video on my channel of a mod that I was doing on Godin parlor guitars for my students and colleagues around 10 years ago; basically mounting a vintage 60s Danelectro lipstick pickup into the soundhole, getting vintage style magnetic (electric) tones that were very feedback resistant due to the small size and rigidity of the single 0. Check out that vid on my channel if it interests you at all. I was also offering a dual (stereo) system where I would install one of my homemade passive ’K&K style’ (multiple 12mm) piezo discs glued directly onto the bridge plate, and via dual 1/4” outputs (or even a 1/4” TRS) one could achieve incredible control over both a ‘raunchy blues to clean style’ single coil magnetic tone, and simultaneously a separately controlled, ultra transparent acoustic-piezo signal, and all in a very inexpensive, robust, and playable North American made instrument. (Often the whole package including the used guitar and all the parts and labor would be in the $600 range!) I’m rather shocked that Robert Godin would allow such a poorly conceived ‘upgrade’ to his line of otherwise very well designed guitars. I can’t understand why he would stoop to this… Thanks to your excellent video I will have to remember to avoid anything newer than 2006 in the future! The only Godin product that is currently on my want list is their “thinline style” MultiOud fretless electric oud. I’ve been an oud player, off and on, for decades, and am intrigued with this instrument, but where I live it is virtually impossible to find an example that I can play in advance of purchase, and they aren’t exactly cheap instruments… I do come with a lot of expectations though, having owned and played numerous other styles of oud over the years. Do you know if they are using this same ’new style’ of neck mount on their post 2006 instruments? (I’m not even sure if they offered this oud pre 2006?) Anyway, looking forward to viewing more of your vids!

[@BeauHannamGuitars]

Those Waterloo guitars are great. I'd love a real Kel Kroydon!- Have you heard of IRIS guitars, from Vermont?- very similar 1930's/40's reproductions like the waterloos. cool guitars. Id love to have one of those multiOuds! Its been 15 years since i've seen one and cant remember their neck join system. Looking at the pics on this site it looks like its a bolt on neck which is smart- www.thomann.ae/godin_multi_oud_encore_nylon.htm I'm not sure if thats an old or new pic but you could ask whoever you are buying from. I bet their are a few of these available secondhand.,

[@PaisleyPatchouli]

Wow, those IRIS guitars look sweet, but also (like the Waterloos) on the pricey side. I love their 'a la carte' menu style for ordering custom features, what a great idea!@@BeauHannamGuitars

[@georgebarry8640]

@@PaisleyPatchouli Where is this video of the lipstick and KnK guitar??? Sounds great!

[@peterflynn850]

Thanks!

[@BeauHannamGuitars]

Oh wow! Thanks so much Peter !!!!

[@TuckamoreDew]

This is sad news for me. I'm Canadian, and I've been happy that Seagull (and Godin more generally) have been able to carry on making decent guitars here in my own country when so much production has moved overseas. I have two Seagulls, a parlour made about a decade ago, and a very early one from 1989 that has been my workhorse since I got it second-hand in the late '90s. Both play well and sound good but I guess now I know which one's neck will be easier to repair if necessary. I hope the company adresses these issues in future manufacturing. I'm glad you were able to bring this particular guitar back to life. Thanks for the informative video.

[@BeauHannamGuitars]

Thanks for watching :) keep on strumming :)

[@johndelconte9915]

I recently bought a couple of Norman Guitars made in Canada by Godin. They’re the best guitars I found for the price. I paid about 250.00 each The B18 is solid top cedar. The craftsmanship is very nice. I lowered the saddle and adjusted the truss rod and they play great. I’ll be giving them to my grandchildren and hope they put them cell phones down for a little while. I almost don’t want to give them away. Lol. At least It’s a good cause though. Canadian craftsmanship is top quality. Especially compared to lower priced guitars for beginners. They’re very playable.

[@michaelj3414]

I currently have an 87 Minstrel. Laminated wild cherry, maple neck and rosewood fingerboard with a squared headstock with a Seagull decal on it. An inquiry to Godin tells me that it was basically and entry level S6 with a laminate top instead of the solid cedar top. I've let it dry out pretty bad over the few years I've had it and it developed a fair sized belly. Asking around I was told it wouldn't be worth fixing it because of the laminate and to play it until you can't. I love the neck though and decided to take it on myself and I'm no luthier. I've soaked the neck with lemon oil and it's currently sitting in a case with some homemade humidifiers. Gonna work on that for about a week and see what happens. Maybe a bridge doctor to get it the rest of the way and keep it from happening again. We'll see. Curious what you might do or suggest in this senario ? I also live on the Quebec border, not far from where this was built and theres some kind of nostalgia there for me.

[@BeauHannamGuitars]

Don’t over humidify it to try to puff it out again. Just humidify as best you can to 45% ish

[@michaelj3414]

@@BeauHannamGuitars Thank you for your reply and suggestion. It's very appreciated.

[@jamescarid3448]

Very interesting. I have a Seagull Maritime 12 dated 07; hope it does not run into neck issues. Cheers.

[@richiet5914]

I have a lefty Seagull I picked up used that was very well played/abused for a camping/beach guitar.. The paper inside says cedar but no model or serial number so not sure how old it is. The fingerboard droops a couple degrees at the 14th fret making it unplayable above 14. Below that it is very playable with that warm cedar tone. I like it enough to keep it home and got a "plywood" Martin to take camping. I thought about resetting the neck but after watching this video I guess the droop remains as part of the guitars' character.

[@BeauHannamGuitars]

It might be pre 2006. I cant remember if the back of the headstock has a serial number stamped. You might be able to tell from looking inside and up at the headblock.

[@richiet5914]

There's no other markings on it. The tag as a place for model and serial no. but nothing was written in. I got it somewhere around 2006 and it was pretty well worn in by then so has to be pre 2006.@@BeauHannamGuitars

[@TomboLP]

Just fantastic! Some great tips in here - especially the flaring of the neck block by a couple of grain lines. I don't do a lot of acoustic building at the moment, but will keep that in mind for the future. I see your comments sometimes in one of the online groups and they're always useful and to the point. The only thing I wish is that there was some sort of way for casual visitors to tell who is an experienced luthier and who isn't. For every person like you giving good, solid ways to address repairs, there are a dozen keyboard warriors who have probably never done anything more than restringing. They're the ones saying things like "use epoxy" or "that broken headstock needs splines" (most don't, and, in some cases, splines make things worse) ... or any one of a thousand other pieces of terrible advice that they've either picked up from someone else ignorant online or even simply just made up. Anyway, keep fighting the good fight. You are generous with your knowledge and do brilliant work!

[@BeauHannamGuitars]

Thanks TomboLP. Yes, the trouble with online forums is everyone screaming into the dark and no one can tell who is what, unless you know there names already. It always makes me shiver when i see a national treasure luthier shot down on a forum for giving amazingly perfect advice by some fool. The internet.... Thanks again.

[@paulinmt2185]

I'm an original owner of a "Performer CW Cedar GT QII" from around 2006 that I love to play finger-style on. I hope it's not a ticking time-bomb. Thanks for the detailed analysis and repair vid. Cheers from Montana!

[@BeauHannamGuitars]

It’s only a problem hen it’s a problem- so enjoy it without worry until then 3)

[@derekfromtauranga6012]

As a small volume guitar maker I’ve been aware that the neck to body joint is a weakness on many factory guitars. They are simply not strong enough in this area and the body deforms on the fretboard extension area. You can test this by holding the body tightly against yourself and pulling and pushing on the neck and there is often a reasonable amount of movement as witness by the change in string height. Couple this with the bridge tilting forward and pulling up it’s not long before the action is unplayable and the saddle is at its lowest point. I’ve long believed in a big neck block and heavy transverse brace to stiffen that area. I found through experience that you need a stiff guitar body that resists deformation as if it’s not stiff enough it will accerbate the deformation and subsequent lifting of the body at the bridge area. So having highly scalloped braces takes away strength from the sound board and adds to the whole deformation problem. I think Taylor have probably the best practical solution with the tapered shims to easily deal with the deformation problem that will occur on every acoustic guitar over time.

[@BeauHannamGuitars]

Yep and yep and yep

[@nashtr79]

As someone who bought an S6 in 2019, this makes me ... apprehensive. But so far so good. But this makes me wonder, are there any guitars in this price range that are actually designed with regular glue and proper joints? Taylor comes to mind with their attachment system, but who else is there that thought ahead to when the guitar needs serviced?

[@BeauHannamGuitars]

Most brands have serviceable neck joints in any price range (be it dovetail or bolt on). Godin are the only acoustics from a major current brand that I know of that have set necks.

[@UncleKennysPlace]

I had a Signet guitar (sold by Selmer, in the 1970s in the USA) that needed the neck reset. I spent a lot of time trying to get that thing off the proper way. But it turns out it has the same neck joint as the Seagull-parallel with the neck-so I just put the body on a shelf after I finally removed the neck. Still have it. Certainly it's a very strong way to attach a neck, but not so good if you need to adjust it, and I didn't want to put in the time, as it wasn't an expensive piece.

[@BeauHannamGuitars]

Yep- this system works well until you need to take the neck off… then ARGH

[@geesonnit]

I’ve had this model for about 6 or 7 years or so now! It’s a 2002 model. I love it! It’s by far the best sounding acoustic I’ve played by a country mile! I’m so glad it’s not a later model. Thanks for your video!! Kind Regards, Gee

[@BeauHannamGuitars]

Thanks - I would recommend the pre 2006 Godins if you plan to keep it for a few decades

[@gmcenroe]

Same here I have the 20th anniversary Ceder top model from 2002. It still plays very well and I guess does not have the epoxied neck set. I don't plan to sell it.

[@geesonnit]

@@gmcenroe me neither my friend. I’ll be passing down to my little lad! Seagulls are brilliant guitars. It’s funny. I’m actually looking at purchasing a 12 string 😂

[@Nawk32]

Alright so i need some advice. I absolutely loved my seagull S6. I played it for 15 years at ($500) before i finally had to retire it. The solid top absolutely made the sound so rich and every time id play it amongst other musicians their heads would turn. What might you recommend thats comparable to the sound and feel of the S6 without compromising quality?

[@BeauHannamGuitars]

@@Nawk32 I really don’t know about store guitars unfortunately. IRIS or Waterloo are good but I’m not sure what their lowest priced guitars cost sorry.

[@cbcacbca]

How many acoustics have bolt on necks. Most ive come across are glued in neck.

[@BeauHannamGuitars]

I’m not sure of the ratio of dovetail to bolt on. But this is different to a dovetail, which you might be thinking of as a glued in neck. A dovetail with water soluble glue is totally and quite easily reversible. Epoxy, however, is not water soluble- it does eventually release under heat but as I point out, the bottom of the block on this joint is about 1” away from a possible heat source- so in reality, this whole neck joint is fused quite permanently together. In short, this is NOT anything like a typical Martin, Gibson, Collings dovetail glued in neck join.

[@ChrisEbbrsen]

Thank you! I was not aware seagull had neck join issues. This is good to know. I love seagull guitars! Their tone is wonderful. I have briefly played several models. Sorry your having trouble with their method of neck attachment. I used to help my dad build sailboats. Or rather one he built for me. I have worked with mahogany and cedar. Cedar cracks: mahogany does too only a lesser amount. Have you ever considered a butterfly joint? I'm not even sure it would work but it's very sturdy and my dad used these on my mahogany El Toro sailboat. Just a thought probably not even practical just thought I would throw it out there!. Thank you for very practical vidio!

[@BeauHannamGuitars]

Thanks Chris. I’m glad I got this guitar going again :) all the best.

[@longjonwhite]

Great job mate! As an old Brit, I enjoy the way you alternate between Imperial and metric measurements! I still describe rough sizes in the old money, easier for me to visualise, but I use mm for any cutting.

[@BeauHannamGuitars]

Hahaha- yep. I swing back and forth in measurement style as my Brain deems 🧠

[@pastyman001]

Art and Luthiery was a version of Simon and Patrick where there was a mark on the top wood and the top was coloured to hide that. Seagull was same guitar with different headstock and sold through a rival distributors. I think Norman was similar. These are crudely made mass produced guitars where they vary a lot one to another, so if you look through 30-50, you might find one decent one.

[@BeauHannamGuitars]

Interesting thanks

[@111street]

Simplier design could be good. In this case the normal dovetail is better. You can use epoxy on the dovetail. Ive applied wax on the heel block, but epoxy on the dovetail, drive in the dovetail leaving appx 1/8th of inch out/ loose,until the glue hardens alittle, and then drive the joint in the rest, making the joint strong.And add a wood screw from the inside to keep the neck in. Point is the wax holds to one side epoxy holds the otherside, making reset of the neck later possible.

[@BeauHannamGuitars]

Or, just use water soluble wood glue …

[@daviddebord6539]

My S6 cedar will be together long after a lot of my others ( Martin included) have twisted beyond repair. Love it. Doesn’t like coated strings.

[@BeauHannamGuitars]

It may indeed last longer then the others for a neck reset but it will eventually need one.

[@philipaustin6042]

Hi beau....i just bought an older cedar top gull. Im poised to get a pro set-up to suit my alt tuning quirks. I was told its an older gull, not sure the year. When did they begin the disastrous epoxy solution on their necks?.hoping my new little girl predates. Thnx!

[@BeauHannamGuitars]

Hi- they started 2006, but there might be a few of the later months of 2005

[@philipaustin6042]

@@BeauHannamGuitars cool, I think mine predate this atrocity. I'll check. Thnx.

[@allenmitchell09]

I had seagull acoustic that I put some heavy gauge strings on, and it got the exact problem as this guitar with the soundboard sheared on either side of the neck into the sound hole.

[@BeauHannamGuitars]

One of the worst breaks to have

[@gerarda.hinson1693]

Most players stopped using heavy gauge strings by the end of the 1970's: tough on the guitar, and even more so on the tendons! No need, unless you're tuning WAYYY down, IMHO. Light or medium-light still sound good. Besides, if someone's onstage they're either going through pickups or an instrument mic to get more volume. However, I learned plenty from this video. Epiphones from Japan in the early to mid-seventies had that block slippage, practically a landslide of movement. I had used ultra-light electric strings with pick-ups, and more than a little homemade adjustments. Lasted almost 40 years, far more than it deserved, but eventually it bent & collapsed almost in every direction. The neck itself was fully bolt-on, so I might build something to it to make a portable travel 12-string, kind of in the Chapman or Gittler vein (showing my age here!).

[@57briben]

Hi, I was just thinking maybe the easiest way would be to flush cut the fretboard from the top and unbolt the heel. I'd leave the tenon that is epoxied in where it is. You could then shim/reglue extension & bolt back on as needed for the reset. There really is no need to remove the epoxied in wood. Your thoughts? ( a GT in Canada for about 40 yrs).

[@BeauHannamGuitars]

See number 4 of the the description. But don’t saw through the fingerboard as you loose a lot of rigidity

[@57briben]

Oh right, thanks. Godin never should have changed their bolt on . I've reset several over the years easily but never this epoxied version. I think Robert Godin needs a look at your video :) @@BeauHannamGuitars

[@frankprice8676]

Very interesting. I've mostly been a Japanese Takamine and (earlier) High end Ovation player and found those neck joints to be pretty solid. I've had my eye on seagull recently and like the Artist and Maritime models in particular. I assume this issue with the neck you've described could happen in both Artist and Maritime ? And I'm guessing top wood species wouldnt be a factor (Ie, Spruce or Cedar, doesnt matter, could still happen) ? Thx !

[@BeauHannamGuitars]

Thanks for watching- as far as I know it’s all models from 2006 on. Top wood doesn’t matter although spruce typically is stronger along the grain which is a factor for neck resets but a reset is only usually needed after 20-30 years.

[@bvs5164]

Great vid, hope Godin is watching. Any idea if a 2017 LaPatrie Concerto QI will have the same neck joint? Thank you.

[@BeauHannamGuitars]

Thanks. I think all their acoustics have this joint , so yes.

[@stuco]

I get the importance of repairability and I've done neck resets before (dovetail only). In the USA you can get used seagulls for $200-$250. Neck resets generally start at $500 (I get it'd be less if they made an easier to adjust bolt on, fair point). I'd just get another seagull. Side note but the entourage rustic is the best sounding readily available guitar in that used price range in my opinion. Made in North America, not perfect but there's a lot to like there. Tiny headstock, big tone! : ) Nice work and it's interesting to see what's involved in resetting one of these.

[@BeauHannamGuitars]

Thanks/ this guitar costs $1600 new but on those cheaper ones, this neck system makes them a throwaway guitar which is a shame

[@justaname109]

Sure but with guitars, there is at least a little “you get what you pay for” factor. I’m guessing the $200-250 used price range you’re quoting is for an Entourage, which is their entry level guitar at $500-600 new. Most people eventually move beyond that entry level and want more from a guitar. I haven’t seen any of their midrange guitars, even something like the sws maritime guitars even remotely close to the $200 price point

[@BeauHannamGuitars]

@@justaname109 this retails for $1600

[@justaname109]

@@BeauHannamGuitars oh, sorry, I was replying to the OP in the comment. I guess my point was, just buying an entry level seagull because it’s cheap, instead of repairing a neck isn’t a solution for a lot of players because they want a better sounding guitar anyway.

[@WindOfTheWisp_Janine]

Wow...very interesting...I belong to a couple of Seagull forums & actually hadn't heard about this. Maybe because most folks haven't needed a neck reset on their Seagulls yet. I own several...bought quite a few back a few years ago when many places were selling them at great prices. I especially love the mini-jumbos - very comfortable to play, but one of mine has developed a crack on the top, even though I keep all of my guitars in their cases & my guitar room is humidified. I've seen several folks on the forums complaining about their Seagulls cracking...wondering how common the problem is or if it's just from most folks not keeping their instruments properly humidified. From what I understand, cedar is more prone to cracking than spruce.😥😥

[@BeauHannamGuitars]

Hi- thanks for watching. Any guitar with any species of top (or back/sides) can crack. If not a blunt force trauma is always humidity, and 99% it’s dryness. Some guitars are better at withstanding humidity dryness and it depends on the wood batch at the factory, the season it was built and how it has been stored over the decades. Seems a bit strange to say that but it seems that be true. Some guitars crack like twigs, some can withstand the apocalypse! Few free to post this video to any seagull forums. The problem I talk about In this video, fortunately, isn’t a problem until it’s a problem. The big neck insert they use over the body joint in the neck is a great idea and it does what it is ment to- stop the body joint hump- it’s just a very bad idea to epoxy it in as it makes neck resets (which ALL and EVERY guitar eventually need) very difficult to fix (not impossible). Apparently the Godin factory just saw the neck off, clean the pocket and grab a new neck- that’s not very good for most people. I don’t like that throw away mentality. But the good new is they are good guitars until they aren’t but that takes decades :)

[@iamanovercomer3253]

I was going to buy a Seagull PERFORMER CW CH BURNT UMBER PRESYS II Right before the plandemic and I was told that it was a 2 year wait and the price doubled. So I ended up buying a Martin instead for $600 and it's not a bad guitar. I usually play my strat . It is sad that the quality went down and the price went up so much. Thanks for the information

[@BeauHannamGuitars]

There are so many good options under $1000- and all the rest have the option of a neck reset down the road, but not godin

[@IIImobiusIII]

Have you ever looked into Stereotomy? The architectural practice of joining irregular wooden surfaces. It's a beautiful French tradition that made me wonder what Les Compagnons would have envisioned as a neck joint. What we have with most cheap guitars is architectural Brutalism. Look up Stereotomy, The Alchemy of Solids.

[@BeauHannamGuitars]

That sounds really interesting. I’ve never heard of it before now. Thanks for mentioning it

[@Man_Cave]

I own 3 Seagull acoustics and never had a problem with the neck set. I have had problems with an Ibanez acoustic neck set and got rid of it.

[@BeauHannamGuitars]

All guitars eventually need a neck reset- it can take 10-30 years

[@jonathansinger3818]

When I bought my first Seagull, it was their top of the line with rosewood back and sides. I think it was about $1200. (1990's?) I absolutely loved the sound of that guitar and would put it up against any other guitar out there. But then I started having problems with it needing constant truss rod adjustments. Eventually the truss rod failed. Knowing that trying to fix it would cost me close to what a new one would cost, I ripped it apart and then threw it away. So your opinion that it was a throwaway guitar, I would agree with. Some time later I purchased a Taylor. I paid almost twice the price, and no, it doesn't sound as nice as my Seagull did. But I still have it after 20+ years of use...with no problems.

[@theguitarguy5866]

Beau, how does one get in touch with you?

[@BeauHannamGuitars]

my email is [e-mail]

[@nickp4872]

Does the Simon & Patrick Woodland Pro Mini Jumbo guitar have the same neck build? I'm considering buying a 10 year old one and I wouldn't like to run into weird problems with it.

[@BeauHannamGuitars]

I think all acoustics made after 2006 have this neck joint

[@john6627]

I have an S6 from around 2010 that has a crack from the sound hole that goes straight up along the fretboard, exactly as you show at 3:09, but only on one side. I fear it is as you said, almost a throwaway guitar because this fix is such a hassle, and I doubt it would be worth selling with the crack present. The real stupid part is it came with the crack new 14-15 years ago when I should have returned it to the shop, but didn't for various reasons (birthday gift, first guitar, etc). Trying to decide what to do with it when I found your video... I'll probably keep it as is and if/when it becomes unplayable I'll try to do something myself. I really dislike these guitars now... ugh...

[@BeauHannamGuitars]

Sorry to hear it- the crack along the fretboard edge really sucks. It’s all fixable though. I have a video I have to edit shouting how to do it. As for fixing your guitar, it just depends what it’s worth. They can be fixed but the expoxy makes it harder.

[@john6627]

@@BeauHannamGuitars It's a Coastline S6 Folk Cedar. I think it was just under $500 new. I will lookout for that video! All I've done as of now is take the bolts out and tried encouraging the crack to line back up so I could possibly get some glue in it.

[@hulusiuslu3247]

Thanks for the video it is very clear getting a bit familiar with tech side of the guitar is fun. Have a stupid question here 🙏. I am quite new on playing guitars. I visited a music shop today. Tried a couple of guitars a Sigma, a Martin and a Seagull. All of them were having high actions like 3-4mm at low E 12th fret. Is this something normal for new guitars?

[@BeauHannamGuitars]

Hi and my pleasure. I good medium action with a saddle that is around 1/8” above the top of the bridge is about 5/64th for all strings (about 2mm). To take the action down 1mm at the 12th fret, you have to remove 2mm at the saddle. Hope that helps.

[@hulusiuslu3247]

@@BeauHannamGuitars Thanks I appreciate that.

[@joshhawley9864]

So even though Seagull says that they started epoxy necks in 2006 I have a 2005 seagull artist with an epoxied neck (: so something to be aware of. Thought I was OK but sadly no.

[@BeauHannamGuitars]

Good to know, thanks. It’s only a problem when it’s a problem and it should be 20-30 years after manufacture

[@Derek-rv3ee]

Thank you for recording this, I've been talking about this for years. I have had a few Godin acoustic guitars, still have two. I didn't know about the epoxy until after I purchased the past one. One of my Godins does in fact have a sunken neck that I cannot get repaired due to the epoxy. I don't want to claim warranty and send it away for replacement because of the sentimental value. Shame on Godin honestly, they're making throwaway guitars.

[@BeauHannamGuitars]

Sorry you got that problem. If you send it back you will get the same guitar body but with a totally new neck- I think they saw them off and replace. Better that then a non playable guitar.

[@Derek-rv3ee]

@@BeauHannamGuitars they told me they just replace the guitar with something the same

[@dalepiwek]

I did a compensated intonation job on a cheap gull, it turned out great

[@BeauHannamGuitars]

Nice- it feels good to fix things hey!

[@dalepiwek]

Yeah man. It's the only guitar I've ever played that can take a cheap capo on any fret and remain perfectly in tune

[@9jmorrison]

I think Art & Luther is the same construction, also Canadian co.

[@BeauHannamGuitars]

Yep

[@shroompicn-shrooman]

I own a first run of Seagull with Cherry body and cedar sound board. I didn't know why my neck came loose . When I finally figured out how the neck was bolted on . I took the neck off and glued the whole thing with fish glue. That was probably 15-20 years ago. And never had a problem with it yet . I have had some slight swelling at the bridge and that will be fixed next with a bridge doctor. What i didn't like was the bolts were covered with a sticker so i had no idea they were there .

[@BeauHannamGuitars]

Bolts - Collings hides them the best- no sticker but plugs that when the eye runs over the headblock on the inside, you can easily miss they are there.

[@shroompicn-shrooman]

@@BeauHannamGuitars that sounds special to work on lol 😆

[@davidharris7431]

Thanks Beau , I will be using your headblock design , is that your idea to taper the shape so it runs across some grain preventing cracking ? That's genius mate . Consider it stolen forthwith . Peace ✌.

[@BeauHannamGuitars]

Hahah/ thanks- not my idea. I do the same with the bridge wings and any braces like the center top brace on a classical guitar- I angle it so it crosses a few grain lines.

[@davidharris7431]

@@BeauHannamGuitars Yeah , I do it with bridge plates and bridges but never thought about the blocks . I suppose it could be used anywhere the sides run parallel to the grain . Still genius albeit a bit obvious . Peace ✌

[@BeauHannamGuitars]

@@davidharris7431 thanks- yes- just never run a bit of wood along the grain of other bit of wood (especially a thin guitar top)

[@nevarmaor]

I have a Seagull Natural Elements guitar. I love playing it because of the wider neck. It's 1-7/8 at the nut. Now I hope it never needs a neck reset.

[@BeauHannamGuitars]

Don't worry about it till its time to worry about it :)

[@sgholt]

I played with one the other day at Sam Ash...didn't do anything for me... : /

[@greatkingrat]

I have a 2021 Taylor 210CE. When I first got it (second hand) it needed a neck reset (high action). Due to the bolt on neck and the shims this was easy for the Taylor guy to fix and now it’s beautiful. I feel your pain with this one….I must say, though, I was intrigued that you’re using imperial measurements, being an Aussie.

[@BeauHannamGuitars]

Hahahah- I go back and forth with measurements in Lutherie. It’s best to use both I think

[@red58impala]

I've always wanted a Seagull guitar, but after seeing how they are constructed, I'd be hesitant to buy one. Thanks for creating this video. It taught me a lot.

[@BeauHannamGuitars]

They sound good (I play it at the end cuz I was having fun) but the neck repairability is rather non existent

[@jeffs.987]

Get an older one which will have the better neck joint if you like the sound of that particular one. I have a 2001 which I gig with regularly. Never a problem so far!

[@Workingcockers]

I have 2014 Seagull Perfomer series in the flame maple. It’s a fine guitar and I play it a lot, however, it does have a higher neck action than my Martin HD28. I play them both at out equally. I like the neck on the Seagull better than the neck on my much more expensive Martin. For a $1000 guitar the Seagull has been great, especially since I found it used/mint condition for $400. Does it sound like my Martin? NO, but it still sounds great and plays great. I’m thinking about adjusting the neck to see if I can lower the action a bit.

[@livy1962]

I've got 4 Godin's and a couple of Art and Lutherie's and all have been the most bulletproof and reliable guitars I've owned. Don't let one angry man steer you away from the best guitar value on the planet.

[@livy1962]

These are easy adjustments that any player can (and SHOULD) make. Don't go in blind though. Lots of helpful videos on YT. Like any math problem, order of operations is key.@@Workingcockers

[@jimsliverootsculturemusic]

She's got tons of songs in her, made possible by your expert repair. The way it rings with overtones is special.

[@BeauHannamGuitars]

:) 🎉❤❤

[@jimsliverootsculturemusic]

@@BeauHannamGuitars I have a SeaGull walnut 12~string. Fairly new, no neck issues. It sounds very sweet and sustains with organ~like tones. I hope they didn't install the neck that way.

[@BeauHannamGuitars]

If its made post 2006 then it probably has this neck joint

[@traildoggy]

I have an Art and Lutherie 12 string. It's a really special guitar, warmer and not as bright as most 12 strings are. I got it used for under $200. A few times when I was broke I thought of selling it but as soon as I play it I change my mind and realize I'm probably never finding another solid top 12 at this price. Was just playing it this morning actually. I've had a few Larrivee guitars too. Mighty fine guitar craft up north there in Canada.

[@BeauHannamGuitars]

A good 12 string for $200 is a huge deal!- hold on to it!

[@trackie1957]

You could make a replacement block in two halves with a gap in the center for the rod. The two halves would mate perfectly with the sides, so no need for shims. Make them a bit tall and scrape/plane down to the top and Bob's your uncle!

[@BeauHannamGuitars]

Norman’s my uncle! Hahah- there is maybe 5-6mm of wood on the bottom of that block which adds structural integrity to the headblock so I’d make a whole one and route (or chisel) a new truss rod channel in rather then two halves.

[@trackie1957]

Great idea on flaring the extension to span some grain lines. The way it was done on this guitar basically created a pair of scissors for the top!

[@BeauHannamGuitars]

Yep - you see it a lot on guitars

[@MikeGervasi]

I have a Seagull 6 and a 12. ALso a 6 string Minstrel. I feel all 3 need a reset. However it might be beyond my skill set.

[@BeauHannamGuitars]

Are they made before 2006?- if so they are easy to do. If made after 2006 It’s possible to do if you want a challenge (but any neck reset is like that)

[@MikeGervasi]

​ @BeauHannamGuitars I beleive so. 6 string number is 00135471 so I think 2000, 13th week. It's bridge has been shaved to practically nothing. When I look inside I see a solid block with no bolts.

[@BeauHannamGuitars]

@@MikeGervasi nice- the neck can be set normally, although with no bolts I presume it’s a dovetail but I didn’t know they ever did them????- best to call them

[@cbcacbca]

I made an electric guitar 50 years ago this september. I used 2 hidden bolts and araldite epoxy resin glue. 50 year's later, ive never had a problem. Im no carpenter or guitar maker and its the only one i ever made. I don't understand why it has to be complicated. My neck is never coming off and it doesnt need to.

[@emilychristoff9404]

Good for Mr Godin, I really Liked my Godin acoustic bass, but returned because of that hump…I tried everything, it was used and it had a factory hardshell case. I hope that 12th fret hump was fixed…my was before that issue fixed. I still think they are lovely guitars.

[@BeauHannamGuitars]

They largely fixed the hump (short term problem), but swapped it for a long term problem (not being able/designed to reset the neck which every guitar eventually needs)

[@CharlesTPrimm]

The Seagull S6 is one of the greatest guitars made.. It sounds so good and plays phenomenally well.

[@CharlesTPrimm]

The author of this video concedes that the guitar is good for “decades” before it isn’t. Further, others in this thread note that MANY factory made guitars have neck-to-body joint problems.

[@Flub_Kub]

I also have an S6. I've been using it for years and have had no problems at all! Maybe I'm one of the few who lucked out! Sine then, I've moved to Candelas nylon guitars for more of a spanish, flamenco style playing. Would I buy another Godin Seagull? No. After this video, I can surely say that I was lucky to have a trouble-free S6. I'm sure if I were to buy another one, I'd be gambling it.

[@fixitmyself]

Ive got 3 of them and so far so good except for the tuners, but Seagulls are not expensive guitars and this must have been an expensive repair. Was it worth it?

[@BeauHannamGuitars]

This guitar cost about $1600 new, so it was worth it

[@78tag]

...same problem, the tuners became un-tuneable. What did you replace them with if I may ask?

[@BeauHannamGuitars]

@@78tag I didn’t replace the tuners on this- I think Godin website sells replacement tuners which would be good as all the screw holes would line up.

[@peterflynn850]

Thank you for sharing this very clear and detailed repair. I especially appreciated the way you included background doc from the Gore text.

[@BeauHannamGuitars]

I had to cuz I used to work at Gilet guitars with Gerard! Hahaha but Trevor’s neck system is really smart

[@domdimensions9219]

This is a real shame. I really like the sound and feel of simon and patrick guitars, but this seems like a terrible choice by the designers and now knowing this, I think I will reconsider purchasing one. Should I let this problem affect my decision to purchase a godin guitar? I want to get a nice solid top guitar, and I might go with a yamaha, as they seem to provide really good value for money. And I think if in some decades it needs a neck reset, it would be a lot easier to do on a yamaha, as they use a normal dovetail joint, and I'm pretty sure they don't use epoxy resin. What solid top guitars would you reccomend on a budget? Like for around 600 dollars or less?

[@BeauHannamGuitars]

Well, for $600 or less a neck reset isn't the issue because no one resets a neck on a $600 guitar as $600 is close to a neck reset cost (typically with new frets, nut, saddle, setup). I really don't know the cost of new guitars as I don't go into guitar stores. Waterloo, IRIS and good but I have no idea what they cost. Recording King had some good ones last time i played one but i cant remember the price.

[@chrisb3k1]

Great video, man. Hope you make more in the future. I used your ramping/bridge slotting video as a guide the first time I performed the technique on one of my guitars. Came out great! So thank you! And for the few who say the epoxy isn't a big deal: MANY techs and luthiers will straight out refuse to reset a post-2006 Seagull. It's a disaster.

[@BeauHannamGuitars]

Thanks so much. Glad you liked the bridge slotting jig! Epoxy has its place in lutherie, but rarely for necks, although some high end luthiers do it (Ervin Somogyi and his guitars start at $35,000

[@chrisb3k1]

I read his book and must've missed that. Speaking of Somogyi, I know he does some post-voicing on the braces after the guitar is built. Do you work in a similar way? I always thought it would be cool to see a video of post-voicing on a guitar. Mainly because it makes great sense to me to have the entire guitar built, string it and let it sit, and THEN play it to find out what it does well and what doesn't do so well. Then proceed to voice it accordingly. I know it's a pain to work through the sound hole, but I find this approach might be what's best for the guitar. Thanks. @@BeauHannamGuitars

[@BeauHannamGuitars]

@@chrisb3k1 ​​⁠I usually don’t do post string up brace carving, (thankfully) I think Ervin has thin arms which make that job far easier- I had my arm in a 1935 Gibson most of yesterday and man it started to hurt my forearm !

[@chrisb3k1]

Yeah, I've heard it's a pain! And I know it's a very, very specific aspect of luthiery that not everyone does. Thanks for the reply, Beau. And I look forward to more videos! @@BeauHannamGuitars

[@iancallard3561]

Very interested to see this. I have a pre-2006 Seagull, and it's been great. I had it properly set up - best money I ever spent.

[@BeauHannamGuitars]

Nice! A good setup is everything

[@scottyhughes9179]

Beau, thanks for the video... I have owned an early mahogany neck SEAGULL S6 since about 1983, possibly slightly earlier, I cannot recall the precise year I received it... It has never given me one issue, it is still my goto guitar for bashing about while camping, or playing a gig on stage, the tone is amazing (I also own other guitars worth 10 times the price)... I own a LAPATRIE nylon string guitar, which I love as well... and for years I sold the very well made and stable NORMAN acoustics in a prominent music store here in Canada. They all withstand the beating and the wildly shifting weather temperatures in Canada.... Robert Godin knows his stuff. And to say 'Made in Canada' on a product makes me want to support that company.

[@BeauHannamGuitars]

It feels good to play a guitar made in your country. Australia has Maton which are pretty good. Sounds like you have an amazing Seagull geetar- it’s also nice when , like you said they can handle the local weather. All the very best and keep on strummin!

[@zachyweezer]

your guitar playing is really nice and unique. who are some of your influences?

[@BeauHannamGuitars]

Thanks- I mostly listen to John renbourn, Bert jansch and lute music

[@zachyweezer]

@@BeauHannamGuitarsVery nice. I recently learned "One for Jo" by Bert Jansch. The next to tackle is "Moonshine."

[@cugir321]

I have a walnut mini jumbo that has a rattle in the block under the fingerboard...sounds like a washer on the truss rod....maybe it's a bolt washer...have talked to Seagull and no one will help. Nice to know it can never have a neck reset. Luckily I had to reglue the heal cause it broke loose....gluing it raised my neck angle about 3/16 over the bridge. I don't think I'll ever have that much movement in the neck. I just play the guitar tilted up and it doesn't rattle....but I don't have a warm feeling for Seagull.

[@BeauHannamGuitars]

You can carefully peel back the sticker hiding the bolts and see if there is a loose washer knocking about.

[@cugir321]

AHHHH!!! I'll have to look for the sticker. Thanks!!!@@BeauHannamGuitars

[@cugir321]

It only had one bolt...other had the hole but they never drilled it into the neck at the factory...been like that for 14 years....The bolt was a bit loose and the washer was clicking....tightened it....fixed!Didn't effect the angle when I tightened it ...i guess cause I had glued the heel. Plays good now....@@BeauHannamGuitars

[@BeauHannamGuitars]

Coll!- glad you got it fixed. Some glue at the heel can do alot @@cugir321

[@carloslema5400]

Beau, thanks for sharing your repair chronicles. Thank you, Google, just what I needed. A few questions: aside from the heel support fanning out and connecting it to the transverse brace, and achieving better tolerances, what are your thoughts on the whole bolt-on versus traditional approach (Tenon/Dovetail and fretboard, all glued)? The reason I ask is that I am a guitar maker working on a bolt-on neck design. I am planning on using a tenon & extension under the fretboard but without the shims (Taylor has the patent on the adjustable neck). I am accounting for the neck angle and aiming for much tighter tolerances (using a CNC). I was curious about the bolt-on approach for its repairability and the fact that it provides more robust support. I am hoping it could withstand the forces of 7 & 8 steel strings. Any thoughts are much appreciated. Thank you again!

[@BeauHannamGuitars]

I will publicly say that there is no tone difference between a dovetail and a bolt on- assuming both systems have the neck fitting to the body well. If the woodworking is good, the tone should be too. Talyor and Collings both use bolt on necks and i'm certain they did would have done tests to see/hear if one system was better over the other. Do you have the trevor Gore book I show in the video??? I think you will be interested in his neck attachment system (like Taylor but different, no shims)- i added a link in the description.

[@carloslema5400]

Thanks for your response, much appreciated. Yes, I am familiar his books, but don't have them $$$$, but lots of great knowledge in them-Falcate bracing, nut compensation etc. This video shows his approach kzbin.info/www/bejne/hILYYot9o7udoqc. I come from the world of test, measure and learn. From a CNC operations point of view, his order of operations makes sense. Circling back to your video, you summed it up quite nicely, "If the woodworking is good, the tone should be too," and I would add, "and it should last for a lifetime" (of the instrument that is). @@BeauHannamGuitars

[@BeauHannamGuitars]

Im sure you would like these books- stewmac used to sell them and you could get a 50% discount which made the books a good price, but they seem to no longer sell them.

[@JoeR203]

Back in the 90s, I used to go to my local guitar store and play the spruce top Seagull. I couldn't afford to buy it so I just went every week to visit it. 🙂

[@BeauHannamGuitars]

Free guitar! Hahah

[@AudioAtmos]

I know this question might be hard to answer, but is this construction method used on their 12 strings? I have a 12 string Seagull that was my brothers who no longer is alive. It’s from right around the 2005 or 2006 era. I will need to find out the model and year for sure. It always seemed to be a decent guitar with the neck being good. I have always worried about it because it being not a very expensive guitar (I think it was about $800 USD at the time) and also a 12 string. I keep it tuned to Eb. Thanks for any info and great video.👍

[@BeauHannamGuitars]

To my understanding, all acoustic guitars made after 2006 have this neck join- i'm not sure about their archtops like the 5th Ave though. Its only a problem if (when) the guitar needs a neck reset. It might be easier to take the fingerboard off then attempt to take the neck off like I somehow managed to do- but the whole area was already damaged from humidity issues so that helped me alot.

[@AudioAtmos]

@@BeauHannamGuitars Thanks for replying.

[@willmcgregor7184]

My local climate is not friendly to guitars (significant rapid temperature changes and low humidity). As I am considering a Seagull, I called a local luthier who said he has seen problems with many brands like Taylor, Gibson, Martin etc but none of the brands made in Quebec

[@BeauHannamGuitars]

Some guitar brands may be better in some areas.

[@michaelfitzpatrick5185]

I have a 1998 Seagull + Spruce (old neck attach, so it could more easily be repaired if needed). That said, my neck set 25+ years later is just as good as it was on day 1 as far as playability and external look goes). I take good care of all my guitars and minimize any drastic changes in temperature and humidity. I keep it strung with recommended gauge strings (or lighter). If I do any "up tuning", I always return it to standard tuning so I don't overstress the neck. I do the same for all my other acoustics (Martin, Taylor, Guild, and Carvin) as well.

[@BeauHannamGuitars]

Nice. Seagulls new (post 2006) is a great neck joint solid and stable. It’s just bad when it needs adjusting.

[@the_nondrive_side]

why did you take the neck off when the body was damaged.. seems like a couple interior wedges and some superglue.. because as you said it's a tosser. way nicer repair than perhaps it was worth.

[@BeauHannamGuitars]

I’ve done this same job (pulling back the upper bout that has caved into the sound hole) both ways- with the neck on and off and I prefer it when it’s off if possible. But it can be fixed with the neck on.

[@the_nondrive_side]

@BeauHannamGuitars I commented halfway. I'd personally have done the dirty method. Superglue is a decent finish so I wouldn't even hesitate to hobo fix one in the future now I've seen inside

[@dentrh]

I am the proud owner of three Godin branded guitars two Simon and Patrick 6 string one I purchased in 1987 one in 2013. They are both in amazing shape with tone that earns praise from people who should know. My 12 string Seagull I picked up in 2016 it sounds great, there's no neck deflection. My nephew's Seagull is around 25 years old he has had no trouble with it. The luthiers that have worked on my guitars praised the quality. You may not like them others do

[@BeauHannamGuitars]

Oh I like them. I just don't like the inability to reset the neck without a lot of heartache. It makes them- at the the sub $600 guitars, almost a throwaway commodity - it may take 20-30 years until they need a neck reset which happens to all guitars.

[@Ronilac]

Well... You should be proud of being a good musician, instruments are just a tool. Overfocus on instruments is an obvious sign of lack of proficiency .... It is a compensation reflex

[@BeauHannamGuitars]

I agree that a good guitarist/song writer can sound good on anything @@Ronilac

[@CharlesTPrimm]

I agree. I've had a Seagull for a long time and it sounds fantastic, the neck is fine. Luthiers always tell me how much they admire it. Something's fishy here.

[@bradleyblauvelt1572]

I have an artist mosaic folk from 2008. Haven’t had any problems yet. It’s been played a lot and the frets and fingerboard are getting worn.

[@BeauHannamGuitars]

New frets will be ok- no need to take the neck off for that :)

[@DjNikGnashers]

Really interesting video, thank you. I'm not sure how the neck on my Lowden 32se is joined, but from the reputation for quality that Lowden have, I can only assume it is a better solution than the one Seagull use.

[@BeauHannamGuitars]

I think Lowden's use a dovetail.

[@NBGuitarRepair]

It is a Dovetail but with no gap! All 3 sides of the tail are glued flush, really difficult to remove. I had one that came to me with the neck broken off and exposed this. I had to use an oscillating saw to cut the front of the dovetail away from the block. @@BeauHannamGuitars

[@menschlicheswesen84]

Sorry i maybe ask a stupid question, but why you want to take off the neck of a guitar in the first place...? Does this type of neckjoint effect the playability...?

[@menschlicheswesen84]

Ok, i see... Reset the neck is needed if the wood has moved a lot cause of temp and humidity changes but really, how often is this necessary...? Mine has a trussrod, isn't that enough for most guitars...

[@BeauHannamGuitars]

The neck was off for a different repair I was dealing with which I go into somewhat. Assuming all is good, The neck joint (any joint) doesn’t effect the playability- ie- you can’t tell what guitar a neck joint has just by playing or listening to it. ALL Guitars however will eventually need what is called a neck reset after (usually) a few decades - the 160lb of string tension distorts the guitar in many ways and the neck points to the wrong place. The neck now needs to come off and be “reset” to correct the geometry so the guitar plays as best it can (action, saddle height etc). Regardless of neck joint type, It is inevitable that a guitar will need a neck reset and using epoxy in the neck joint makes the neck very very difficult to get off.

[@jinbyun]

I have experienced 3 acoustic guitars of the godin family. Seagull cedar top, s&p songsmith and 5th ave archtop. All except the archtop had the neck problem.

[@BeauHannamGuitars]

Some of these are great- I used to love playing the 5th avenue guitar with overdrive - great sound!!

[@onesource9527]

Nice job. Problem solving is always interesting to watch. I agree with you...never epoxy a neck joint. At the end the instrument sounds pretty good which reinforces my general view of Godin instruments. It was good however, to learn of the models and years to avoid if considering a Seagull purchase.

[@BeauHannamGuitars]

Thanks 😊

[@cmcg5788]

I just purchased a new Godin Folk solid mahogany acoustic. Everything seems fine: playability, intonation, fretwork, etc. The only thing I noticed after playing it for a few days is that there is a very fine gap where the heel joins the body on the player's side (not on the other side, though). It's widest by the fretboard, where I can slide a feeler gauge into it of .0025" and then gets narrower from there until sealing up completely about half-way down. Should I be worried? I like everything else about the guitar so far, so I'm hesitant to exchange, not knowing what I'll get. Any professional opinion would be helpful, if possible. Thanks.

[@BeauHannamGuitars]

0.025" gap is alot. If you bought it new its still under warranty and id ask for it to be repaired- Its either the bolt wasn't tightened enough at the factory (doubtful), the bolt has come loose over time (less doubtful but the gap would be even on both sides if this was the case) or the wood of the heel has twisted a bit. could be strange body movement too. But take it back or to a luthier who can give an in person assessment. But the gap shouldn't be there.

[@cmcg5788]

Actually, it’s .0025”-ie - between two and three thousandths of an inch. Would that still be cause for concern? Many thanks!

[@BeauHannamGuitars]

@@cmcg5788 0.002” isn’t much- I mention at the end that Seagull use wood putty to fill any gaps at the heel so some may have just fallen out. It’s just aesthetic so don’t worry.

[@cmcg5788]

Cool! Thanks alot!@@BeauHannamGuitars

[@trackie1957]

@@cmcg5788 Don't you mean "thanks a slot"?

[@chrisva4268]

Another masterclass! I've long recommended Seagull, since I love my Maritime SWS Mini Jumbo, one of the most resonant instruments I've ever played. It's rained stable for a decade, so I hope I'll never have to pop the neck off I became enamored with Godin because of their factory tour, it seemed they took a rather scientific and precision approach to solving construction problems. Turns out that was a bit of a farce, epoxy has no place in musical instruments that will need future repair.

[@BeauHannamGuitars]

Fear not. These are good guitars until they need a neck reset

[@ASPEDBUSDRIVER1]

Did you finish building that uke?

[@BeauHannamGuitars]

Not yet

[@czgunner]

Awesome video. I had heard about this issue for years and have always avoided buying a Godin product. I have a buddy with several and they play and sound nice. His 12 string needs a neck reset though....

[@BeauHannamGuitars]

Thanks - hopefully the 12 string is a pre 2006

[@mikepj1025]

Super informative. Thanks for sharing. Love my Seagull Maritime SWS.

[@BeauHannamGuitars]

Thanks for watching :)

[@Charlie-hp2oh]

makes me hesitate bout buying an art and luthery legacy. Any vision on the yamaha new red labels made in china ?

[@BeauHannamGuitars]

I’m Not sure what they have

[@agenuineg]

SO enlightening. SO helpful. (And SO validating, since I imagined that I was the only one who noticed that neck joint section of the factory tour video.) With my own Artist-Peppino model from 2010, someone on some forum somewhere suggested that the use of epoxy didn't apply to their high end guitars. Yet, here you have an Artist model as well . . . Just wondering if the fingerboard extension really has to be glued down. Aren't Taylor's free-floating or whatever you call it? Thanks for the great video and for being so generous with your time going through all these comments.

[@BeauHannamGuitars]

Thanks for watching. Yes- Taylor and Trevor gore (and others) do almost the same thing but bolt it down, instead of epoxying (or any glue). It’s a good neck joint but Godin ruins it with epoxy.

[@agenuineg]

So, if you don't mind my asking, did you absolutely have to glue down the fretboard extension in this case?

[@BeauHannamGuitars]

Good question. I didn't in this case, but i could have made it into a full bolt on (like Taylor) by adding threaded insert (1 or 2) to the block with the bolt coming up through the headblock extension inside. That would be an extra few hours work though. @@agenuineg

[@IndigoJo]

Is this neck joint used on other guitars from the Godin stable, such as Godin branded electrics?

[@BeauHannamGuitars]

I’m not sure about the electrics- the ones I remember seeing back in 2010 were bolt on (I think?) it’s been to long. All their acoustics seem to have this joint- but I’m not sure about the archtops like the 5th ave.

[@YukonStrings]

@@BeauHannamGuitars The 5th Ave has a convoluted dovetail. It's a butt joint with a plywood dovetail screwed and glued on to it, attached to the guitar with this same epoxy. At least that's what it is on mine, which is an early one.

[@BeauHannamGuitars]

HHmm- interesting- good to know! thanks

[@VitalBigras]

😅Hi, please tell me how much did it cost to have this SEAGULL repaired ? THANKS 🙏

[@BeauHannamGuitars]

I didn’t charge enough- but I got an interesting video out of it so I’m good :) it came In For the two breaks along side the fingerboard and I did all this neck stuff basically for free cuz it was the right thing to do as I already had the neck off. Don’t expect other luthiers to do that. If this post 2006 guitar came in for a neck reset, it would have to be ….$400-$500-$600 depending on if it needed frets

[@VitalBigras]

@@BeauHannamGuitars Thank You ! And by the way, Norman guitars are named after the famous Luthier Normand Boucher ! Him & Robert Godin worked together for some time…

[@BeauHannamGuitars]

@@VitalBigras good to know thanks

[@short6691]

Very interesting. I will flair the neck to the top attachment area on my future Spanish heel ukulele builds for sure. Thanks!

[@livy1962]

Not enough stress in a uke with a Spanish heel to make an iota of difference.

[@BeauHannamGuitars]

Yep- thats what i do. Livy1962 points out there sin't enough string tension to warrant this and its true. But i do it anyway just cuz it is good building practice and I have always don't it on all my guitars.

[@BeauHannamGuitars]

See my answer to Short6691

[@davidkeeley8473]

An excellent educational video Beau. I learned a new method. Thank you for sharing your knowledge. Much appreciated!

[@BeauHannamGuitars]

Thank you and my pleasure

[@usafvic]

Crap! I wish I saw this video before I went shopping for a used Seagull. I found a Seagull but didn’t do a decent job of checking it before I bought it. Now that I have it home, I checked things out and I have the exact problem described in your vid. I don’t want to throw away this guitar but I don’t want to dump a ton of money into it either. Any idea how much this would cost to repair (in USD)? Despite this problem, I’m still a fan because I have another Seagull that’s awesome. Be nice to have two awesome Seagulls!

[@BeauHannamGuitars]

Is yours made before or after 2006??? If it’s before 2006 the neck probably isn’t epoxied in (lucky!) but a neck reset will still cost a few hundred (maybe up to $400 but it depends on who is doing it). You could also sell it and buy another

[@usafvic]

@@BeauHannamGuitars After further research today, I’m guessing it’s a pre-2006. The truss rod adjustment is located in the headstock versus inside soundhole. Also the tuning keys are larger than than my other, newer one. There’s no serial number anywhere on it, but there is leftover sticky stuff on the headstock which may have been where the serial number was located. Sounds like I may have gotten lucky with this one so I’m gonna visit my local luthier to get an estimate. Thanks for your reply!

[@BeauHannamGuitars]

@@usafvic my pleasure. The label usually has a serial number. You also might be able to tell looking inside at the upper area of the headblock (you will need a mirror and light) to see if any epoxy squeeze out is visible. Also, you could email seagull and ask (not sure if they would know by looking at its features)

[@lawsiesteve1649]

I have had a Seagull S6 for 30 years. I had to get the neck reset within 2 months of owning it. The explanation I got at the time was that due to the eco laws(in Canada) that had just come in, they had to change to a different type of glue which turned out to be a problem. The glue couldn't handle humid environments or hot environments over 35 degrees celcius.

[@BeauHannamGuitars]

That’s a bad decision- let’s use glue that dosnt glue! Sorry to hear it

[@lawsiesteve1649]

That was before Godin bought the company too@@BeauHannamGuitars

[@2bookoo4u]

I was going to buy a Seagull, but after watching this I'm going to get a Martin or a Taylor. Leaning towards the MIA Taylor. Very informative video. Thank you.

[@BeauHannamGuitars]

Thanks for watching :)