Becoming an Advance Wars Expert- Choosing a CO in AWBW (Tier 0)

[@Nemer49994]

"You can call me Hachi, the best CO there ever was!" God, before deploying 3 battleships in one turn to shoot a single 1hp infantry.

[@Mangs1337]

It's finally here!!!

[@Mangs1337]

Oh boy, I've been waiting for tips from Deejus so I can finally improve my Hachi play! 15:25 Got it, thanks!

[@DeejusProductions]

'_'

[@tomasziskierka9557]

I am hoping for some Caulder tips next time.

[@crisis8v88]

The only choice you need to make as Hachi is whether to build 2 megatanks or 3 neotanks on the front line during Merchant Union.

[@CuddlyTheMadElite]

If it wasn’t for the unit cap and powers getting more expensive, Sensei could honestly be above Hachi. Also, you get to choose what side of the map you play on, make sure your opponent’s sensei is on the North, North-West, and West. This is because the way you beat sensei is by preventing him from getting his power until you’re close to the unit cap. If he has 47 units, he’ll only spawn 3 infantry that spawn top row from left to right and go down. On the flip side, you want the opposite for your own sensei, where even if you’re close to the unit cap, you should try to pick the South, South-East, and East sides.

[@CuddlyTheMadElite]

Also another weakness of Sensei is Anti-Air, Artillery, and B-Copter spam. His 40% on Infantry only matter against other Infantry, Mechs are still too slow, and B-Copters are still “Shedinja” tier units. Because of that, Sensei actually plays more like Hyper Offense Grit, using Infantry as walls so indirects and direct units can approach your lines. Anti-Air wall break easily and defends against copter spam. Indirects don’t care about infantry walls and wall breaks easily and Mechs can’t approach them at all. B-copters can help protect Anti-Air from mechs/tanks manage to go unharmed. Once the Sensei player realizes it’s not such a great idea to have an entire army weak to Anti-Air, he’ll be forced to buy tanks that hit like a pool noodle when you’re on city. But that’s mostly just theory. How it plays out will be different and you might as well forfiet if there is no unit cap.

[@AnythingMachine]

Ah yes, the comedically unbalanced joke characters / epic overwhelming world leaders and villains tier

[@GreyWind1988]

Hachi was definitely not designed for competitive play or even casual play. He was designed for "hey you know this kinda fun war room map? Let's just spam 4 neotanks in 1 turn"

[@zhaoyun255]

INSIDE A CITY as Hachi spontaneously build units on the front line. LOL

[@daregularperson]

6:55 I laughed out loud and replayed this part multiple times. Then the next day I showed it to a friend and watched that part several more times. Thanks for the laughs, Deejus.

[@PaulPower4]

I feel like Sensei has his super-strong footsoldiers because he's a paratrooper, and so like Sami he belongs to a branch of the special forces. Them being stronger than Sami's probably comes from IntSys going "well they don't have the capture bonus, so..." without really thinking through the impact of just being able to get a whole bunch of free infantry from a two-star COP.

[@kanrakucheese]

Oh no, they 100% knew the impact. He outright mentions his ability to get an massive amount of money by combining them in AW2.

[@JerryTheTankYank1776]

What a beautiful thumbnail

[@rustyslug2943]

Above this tier is Javier with 4 comtowers, who is functionally unbeatable then, there is Javier with 9 comtowers, who's loss is basically entirely theoretical and based off of using global damage to reduce the terrain defence then there's Javier with 10 comtowers. No force on earth can beat him.

[@deadlyvphantom1160]

Lets gooooo. Finally this series comes to an end. Also please keep doing the weird voices and strange pictures, they are amazing

[@isssma0]

Up to Colin, significant skill difference can still close up the imbalance of the CO, but for Hachi, it doesn't matter. You can only lose if you do so intentionally.

[@7coloredalice]

Or in an FFA, gang up on the Hachi player first thing you do.

[@Blue-mr7fe]

Usually hachi losses by an improper build order and for example as I played Javier I respected his indirects and after 12 turns I let him build many many rockets and neos and I simply saved to spam megas and it was just push to block cities and blow neos to deny full effectiveness of his super regardless of his own megas my megas only need to focus on them while my smaller fodder can just pick off rockets to get my charge up

[@isssma0]

@@Blue-mr7fe even after a losing engagement, a super CO can easily replenish the front lines.

[@LopsidedMoz]

I beat Hachi as Hawke in a high funds game once

[@patximartel]

@@LopsidedMoz playing against your dog does not count

[@royalghost4914]

Great video deej! Sad that this series ended but it was really good. You know the best way to enjoy t0 is by playing team battles or huge free for all. It is so fun. You can try interesting combos like grit atrilleries + kanbei infantries. I am a Grit main (played more than 100 matches as grit which is more than 50% of my total matches played) and it is really fun to play against other broken cos. You should give it a go sometime!

[@leogh1378]

Editing is bomb diggity bananas as always.

[@styrmirrognvaldsson2361]

13:22 ah yes the famed developers of advance wars, game freak

[@RNGHater]

5:36 from the few games I used Sturm, yeah COP is enough... Unless you face Javier in FoW. God, that is a pain to push, literally every SCOP lets me inch forward vs his SCOP. Also it forces you to play with more tanks and less artillery because Javier laughs at indirects.

[@LopsidedMoz]

Good Sturm analysis, it's worth pointing out that interrupting Sturm caps are much harder because of his defense, making his early aggro even stronger

[@yoloman3607]

You cannot defeat the Hachiman trail, our supply lines use other nations to bypass map boundaries!

[@carlosgutierrez3918]

I still miss and dredge AW2 Gigachad Sturm but this version of him is probobly for the best

[@PICADALOL]

Man...Loved the edits!!

[@rarianomajoy57]

Let's gooo Tier 0 finally!

[@arcturus64]

It's Finnaly here!

[@AT-qu2bz]

Xenogenesis? That's a banger

[@DeejusProductions]

Yessir! Added to the Deejtunes playlist too

[@devinbannish1469]

I was playing high funds in the global league as Sensei on a map where there an island in the middle with like 6 cities he could reach in one turn due to his transport movement, but other COs need two turns. Incredibly broken. My opponent broke through my lines, I popped my Super Power, it's like a brand new army, I got like 4 shots on tanks with the mech produced and wiped out his attempt to capture anything on the middle island with the mech produced there too. Fun CO to play, but I doubt it's so fun to play against lol. It was all but over by day 12.

[@whichDude]

0:40 Mangs is going to find a different co-host for next tournament

[@GeorgeD_]

Great vid! I'd love to see some map analysis vids or something to replace this series now that it's over!

[@mavairick]

Sensei's copter have 50% chance of 1HKO other copters, with a com tower it is guaranteed, so you basically don't need AA until places comes in action

[@anniesa531]

Sensei's bcopter can 1v1 anti air lol

[@mavairick]

@@anniesa531 UNO reverse card ! You thought it was "B-Copter", but it was me "Anti anti-air" !

[@brandonschwertley2723]

I'm curious, if Sturm was not nerfed in AWBW, and had his full 120/120 stats like in AW2, plus the CO power tweaks like in AW2 do you think he would be a match for Hachi? I always viewed these two as two sides of the same coin. Hachi wins by being able to build more powerful units and by overwhelming his opponent with sheer weight of numbers. His units are standard but he can afford more of them, and deploy them to the frontlines when needed, allowing him to continually keep the pressure on. He is hands down the most powerful CO in AWBW. On the other hand, we have a tactically superior CO, with the most broken Units in the game hands down. All terrain equals 1 movement, making him very capable of controlling engagements. His units are just better, with 20% extra defense, and 20% extra attack for no additional cost (just like Javier). His super power will absolutely annihilate entire clumps of units, and it would also buff his unit stats for a turn in AW2. My preference between these two was always AW2 Sturm, and I believe unless the map is really specific (like only having one base and a ton of income) Sturm is the better pick. I want your input though.

[@DeejusProductions]

Yeah sturm would probably win, 20/20 with 1 movement cost is too insane

[@Zulk_RS]

Also disagree with Tier 0 not being played in Global League. I remember having GL matches that had some Tier 0 COs allowed. Granted, it was very very rare and it may or may not be High Funds (I don't remember exactly but I don't thinkg it was High funds) but it does happen.

[@johntrains1317]

That Sturm voice 😆

[@AnythingMachine]

1:21 "Your economics is merely an opinion. one I happen to disagree with"

[@swagmaster2003]

Luck? Mobility? Discipline? Money? No, the true king is........ free WiFi.

[@swagmaster2003]

@adenosine 2 electric boogaloo You got it!

[@gligurr]

as a kanbei main i am offended that you cant pronounce my favorite character correctly

[@7coloredalice]

Hachi is pretty much a tier on his own as all of the other T0 CO has a low chance of winning against him. His D2D power is kind of similar to Sasha (albei a measily 1.1% better) giving him some potential early logistic advantage as well as possibly deploying vehicles a turn earlier than normal. However, this also causes the side effect of having his CO meter charge 90% slower, so it feels like his SCOP requires 5.5 stars rather than 5 stars. Hachi favors maps that has 3 or less bases because other CO that isn't Sensei will have trouble getting the unit count out exasperating Hachi's ability to break the unit count flow where maps with 4 bases or more dilutes his unit count advantage. He also favors maps that has safe city near contested ones as he can use those safe cities to deploy units to the front line earlier essentially giving the middle finger to logistics. Finally he is somewhat less viable (but still busted) in small maps where he can potentially be rushed (likely by Kanbei and Sturm) and have to play at a big disadvantage before he can even get his SCOP up.

[@Wildestleaf]

Video idea, can you do a video on if you had to create a custom unit for each CO. I only ask because I was thinking if they added a sniper style infantry unit, who would get it Sammy or Grit. 👍

[@ibrahimabumustafa7335]

Hachi mains in shamples lol

[@nictouris6054]

I missed these, super useful. (sensei -> kanbei they are pronounced the same)

[@NovaXXX7]

And now i'd actually really like to see commentary on a Kanbei v. Colin match. Though this makes it sound like Kabei would probably not fair well against the sheer economic might of Colin.

[@DeejusProductions]

Really depends on the map and number of bases, 2 bases kanbei has a chance since Colin can't spam teched up units from every base

[@aa01blue38]

I think Kanbei usually has a better chance because his D2D is so hilariously OP. Kanbei units are 50% more expensive than Colin's (yes the math checks out) but one of his units are as good as 2 Colin units. He kinda just gets to steamroll if the map allows for it and probably gets a better economy not accounting for Colin COP. Also, Colin infantry is just plain bad and Kanbei infantry is literally the most broken thing ever, so more bases actually help Kanbei more imo. Kanbei has a ton of ideas, base lock, hq rush or just cap all the cities. Colin wins if he gets fat stacks of cash but the game will most likely end before then.

[@NovaXXX7]

Clearly the only way to settle this controversy is with glorious battle. Deejus v. Mangs. Kanbei v. Colin. Deejus is his imperial armor of being good at the game. Mangs with his can-do attitude and having never met a unit he wasn't willing to sack.

[@sebastianlucas704]

From my experience, Kanbei usually comes out on top. Especially if there's no com towers. He just can't damage Kanbei. Kanbei artillery still destroy neotanks, and there's no way a Colin neotanks can destroy a Kanbei infintry, even on a road.

[@GrandBenja]

I understand that AWBW is trying to be as faithful as possible to the original games, but perhaps it might not be such a bad idea to nerf those COs. Let's consider Colin, for example. His mechanics could be interesting: you're enticed to get greedy and save funds, in order to get the most benefit out of his power. But if you're too greedy, you'll get punished. This CO should be all about handling a weak early-game / day-to-day and mounting a counter-attack when you get to use the power. Unfortunately, as things stand, he is completely game-breaking, so even if you like the Colin concept, you never get to play him. If he got nerfed into a lower tier, for example by decreasing his day-to-day stats and increasing his power cost, he could lead to interesting games. And people who like his character would get to play him once in a while. I mean, as a Sturm fan, I probably wouldn't even have considered playing AWBW if he had had his AW2 stats, and got perma-banned as a result. I'm glad I can at least play him in T1 once in a while, without feeling I'm making the game unfair. (In Colin's case, it doesn't even make sense for him to be this strong, since he is, lore-wise, an inexperienced CO.)

[@SchemingGoldberg]

But AWBW isn't completely faithful, they've made various changes to the COs (and even core mechanics like transport unloading), so I see no reason why they couldn't nerf the tier 0 COs to make them playable.

[@aa01blue38]

@@SchemingGoldberg Because they already did with Sturm, and it was so bad they decided to never do it again

[@CuddlyTheMadElite]

What they can actually do is add ghost units on cities near the frontlines. Ghost unit are units that belong to neither player, and when placed on spawnable areas they will prevent players from spawning units on them. If you put ghost units on all the cities, Hachi and Sensei now become T2 or even T3. Other than that, having tiers are fine way to balance such a large amount of COs. They should just make more tiers so that Grim and Sonja have time to shine.

[@DrDrao]

@@CuddlyTheMadElite Sensei maybe, but hachi with little power spam is still at least grit tier.

[@tim0boy891]

Actually Intelligent Systems are the developers of Advance Wars. Although both Gamefreak and Intelligent systems are well known for their balancing issues.

[@Yearofthebows24]

I would have preferred AW2 Sturm was kept for AWBW for 1 serious and 1 humor reason Serious: contends with Hachi for the (limited) tier 0 matches and he can literally be banned from any match unless players agree to use him or use him as a handicap Humor: seriously, how funny would it be to watch a mirror match if AW2 Sturm? Like full map range recons, meteors flying everywhere, thanos and darth vader memes all over the community. Just saying, give it a thought

[@thebrazillianguytm2186]

You dint mentioned Nell, but ill tell why she isnt that strong of Tier 0, but first we need to understand why Nell is broken Every RPG plays around with RNG to make engagements always seen diferent to one tho other, and the fact that Nell controls it just makes her pretty broken But not as broken people think she is, you wont notice her +10 luck on the day-to-day all that much, it just makes coinflips ( like a 95% ) *more likely* (not 100% guaranteed), what shines bout her is her SCOP, since she can pretty much take any engagement... if you're lucky, because the chance of you getting a lowroll still there, just ready to betray you at the worst moment Dont get me wrong, it isnt that Nell is bad, but she isnt as broken as people paint her as

[@SchemingGoldberg]

"Nell isn't broken" 10 HP Megatank gets OHKO by 1 HP Infantry.

[@thebrazillianguytm2186]

@@SchemingGoldberg you know that dosent works like that right? Iknow is a joke, but just in case you dint knew

[@SchemingGoldberg]

@@thebrazillianguytm2186 Yes I know, and yes it's a joke. However, 10 HP Infantry can legitimately OHKO Megatanks (if the Megatank is on a road). And even if it doesn't OHKO, statistically it will do ~50% damage to the Megatank on average, which is absurd.

[@thebrazillianguytm2186]

@@SchemingGoldberg yep, and that is broken... on paper, you really dont want trow away a Infantry because of it, you should use units of same strengh (or close) to do that And thats what really pisses everyone, the first thing what come in mind of a Nell player is use Infantry to do thing, yes, it can happen a OHOK, but its so luck dependent that isnt really worth it, besides, luck is really weak on enemy phase, since, yknow, you take damage, and more damage, less luck

[@SchemingGoldberg]

@@thebrazillianguytm2186 Even if the Infantry only does 3 damage, it's still worth it, because the Megatank/Neotank/MTank/Tank/BCopter cost so much more. As Nell it is a completely viable strategy to just throw away Infantry and hope to get lucky. Like I said, even if you don't OHKO, you'll still be doing WAY more damage than you normally would, so it's still worth it. And the chance of doing 3+ damage with an Infantry is 70%, that doesn't require a lot of luck.

[@adept7497]

These guys are so broken, even tho I like the design of most of them. About Nell: I don't think she even belongs in tier1. I can't see her beating tier 1 CO'S: Hawk who has a more reliable firepower boost, Sasha outspamming and deny her the SCOP, Javier and Von Bolt doing great against luck damage with their defense boost. Also I feel like there is something different with her luck on the awbw site compared to the original game or maybe I only had bad luck so far. Playing her feels underwhelming for me most of the time.

[@ravenstires1747]

It works like in the games. Humans stronger than AI.

[@Blue-mr7fe]

Dunno man as a Javier with 3 com towers she does disgusting amount of damage if her B copters hits my neo on a woods if I let her but then again It was from a super

[@CuddlyTheMadElite]

Nell is T0 since T0 is AWBW’s version of Smogon’s Ubers. Most things are broken in T0 but sometimes mediocre things are banned because it’s viewed as uncompetitive. Nell in this case would be like using Evasion boosting moves, while Jugger and Flak are like using Dynamic Punch or Zap Cannon, where they are so bad and being unlucky with them stems from you using those COs/Moves.

[@TheAzureNightmare]

Wouldn't Catherine/Nell be Beth or something? Sami would be a better Summer. (Didn't see the others before, sorry.)

[@napalmcannon2513]

Advance Wars 2 Sturm with 120/120 vs Hachi, who is more broken?

[@Insulted25]

Probably Sturm because those stat boosts are too good. If Hachi can stall long enough though he can make an unstoppable tide of 14k mega tanks though.

[@germmanator]

Tier 0 when?

[@DemonFox369]

How does a match go when two skilled players both use Hachi?

[@64UPAllGOD]

Depends on the map I''d imagine. If the map's real open it'd be a choatic mess as Megatanks and Neos constantly spawn on the front lines for whoever gets the bad end of some engagements, repeatedly, and nobody can ever gain a significant cap advantage cause you just spawn a unit there. If it's chokey at all though, complete stall, as both Hachi's use their first SCOP's to build impenetrable positions that would just get completely reinforced with any attempt at a push.

[@ShawFujikawa]

I’ve played a handful of Hachi mirrors in T0 Z-Games, and honestly they’re pretty degenerate. Nothing’s too out of the ordinary at first but the problem is once one player starts winning it gives them their SCOP which lets them instantly push the attacker back on the defensive. Then then new defender gets his SCOP and pushes back in turn, and so on and so on. It eventually boils down to stalemates a lot of the time when both armies hit the unit count cap at like day 15 and nobody can make any progress with so much infantry fodder clogging the fronts, even with Megas and Neos to back them up.

[@EvilFuzzy9]

So AWBW uses Advance Wars 1 Sturm, then put him in the banned tier anyway? :/

[@AnythingMachine]

If you want a challenge with these guys download the War Room hack mod and try to beat Caulder on Unholy Alliance

[@manghariz2211]

Wait, someone actually put in Caulder to AW2?

[@randomredshirt5274]

hachi might beat everyone in tier 0, but what about sasha? their d2ds are basically the same, and sasha gets 10% attack/defense every other turn

[@DeejusProductions]

He can still get his power/scop pretty easily and as soon as he does it's gg though '-'

[@marcosblaky6861]

if nell is not that good why is she banned? she is my favorite CO T.T

[@DeejusProductions]

Same reason why Flak and Jugger aren't allowed...people don't like luck '-'

[@juliusgarets9607]

Hacki kambai tag be brocken tho

[@mathieugiroux9346]

I play with a friend less experiment than I am so I choose in one tier weaker. He tried Kanbei and Sasha is a viable counter. Easy tech up and no SCOP. No easy win indeed.

[@ShawFujikawa]

I’m kinda surprised you didn’t talk about 2T Javier. He has a strong case for being the best CO in the game, up there with Hachi.

[@Mpow518]

Why no ones is talking about the old Sturm.... I prefer that tier 0

[@tomasziskierka9557]

AWBW could nerf them and move them to tier 1. Now they are wasted and forever banned in league.

[@peterhuston7888]

Sturm and Grit can be playable on some maps in fog, and both of them as well as Kanbei and Sensei are playable in HF. All of them are fun and novel in the right situation. Nell isn't OP enough to be T0, she's just banned for being a luck CO. Only Hachi and Colin are too strong to be included in most games, and I could see nerfing them.

[@adept7497]

@@peterhuston7888 I wish there was a balance patch that settle all CO's around tier 2. Even if it wouldn't be 100% balanced, I don't think there should be trash/broken characters in any videogame. The discrepancy between the tiers is way to high for AWBW.

[@mysteryman9488]

Really if they just remove Grit's firepower bonus to indirect units I don't think he'd be a Tier 0 anymore.

[@royalghost4914]

@@mysteryman9488 he already isn't I have played more than 100 games as Grit and I believe he is t1. On most balanced maps, he is not as scary to deal with and on some, he even falls to t2. He needs time and proper walling to be effective and most t0 cos can easily break his infantry walls. Kanbei and sensei with their firepower and colin and hachi with teched up units. However grit is very map dependent. On small or chocky maps, he is easily t-1. It is just impossible to touch a well fortified infantry wall backed up by indirects.

[@joshsimpson1283]

As broken as hachi is, Sturm in advanced wars 2 was still more broken. 20% firepower boost instead of reduction turns him from meh to incredible.

[@zhaoyun255]

And for some dumbass reason, Meteor Strike also buff his D2D from 20% to 40% because as if 8 damage meteor wasn't enough.

[@Tetragramix]

Advance Wars was developed by Intelligent Systems, not Game Freak.

[@Tetragramix]

Con Bay

[@dudewiththehacky]

Ok, so this is a pretty hot take, but I'm fairly certain: Granted you have an airport and you are playing in fog, this is the list from strongest to weakest 1-Sensei 2-Hachi 3-Kanbei 4-Colin

[@Delimon007]

TBH colin is stronger than Hachi imo. This has been tested quite a few times and colin just stomps. He has too much presence and his super actually GIVES him damage while hachi just makes more units that just add onto colin's power spam. Its made much, much worse by the fact that hachi needs to really save up to make the most out of his super while colin doesn't. Colin also has a regular power on top of that, hachi really only has his super tbh. This doesn't mean that Hachi isn't filthy af, just that Colin is that much more broken most of the time. The only exception to this rule really is on smaller maps where colin can't build up his super and take advantage of how strong it is. It's funny because colin doesn't really outnumber his opponent, he out techs them, but against hachi that advantage is moot so if he cannot effectively use his super then he loses to hachi. In most cases, Colin would win though. Edit: Also Sturm dumpsters on just about everyone. In the hands of the AI he's pretty stupid, in the hands of a player just the fact that he's unaffected by terrain is completely F'in busted. Then he gets defenses boosts on top of that for MP instead of attack boosts and it just gets dumb. It's not even about his super, his day to day power is just an adder on roids. Go check out some of the games with top players using sturm versus others. His recons are stupid af. Good luck capping any properties with recons on roids rolling around. . .

[@devinbannish1469]

Isn't it the opposite? Hachi has way more presence, that super power is like if Sensei and Colin had a baby.

[@LotteBlueJays]

Please just stick with saying "Con-bay". You know its right and Mangs needs to learn "Can-buy" nonsense is wrong and dumb.

[@Piqcked]

I'am really curious how Advance Wars Reboot Camp is going to handle MP with these CO. Will there be bans to choose for the host ? Will the meta be a fuck fest of Sensei/Kambei ? Will they nerf CO's ? I doubt it.