Beer Thunder: The New BvR Meta And Me

[@Hazey652]

Who could've possibly foreseen this coming? Truly a mystery.

[@dustind6102]

Hey larpers, hope you’re enjoying the boring ass gameplay! Anyways, what the hell am I supposed to do with 2 r73s and no chaff in my MiG 29 smt?

[@FeatheredDino]

So you prefer flying so low you trim the grass the entire game, until you get to the furball and either get 1 or 2 3rd party kills, or get 3rd partied? Oh! How fun!

[@dustind6102]

@@FeatheredDino watch the video and then read my comment, hope this helps 👍

[@spray916]

I've been waiting for this alcohol fueled schizo rant.

[@pandoranbias1622]

They see Growling pull insane cherry-picked wins in DCS and expect everyone playing Red to be able to do that regularly.

[@dions1s]

So glad stock grinding top tier is even worse now

[@dreccasawa9975]

Su-27SM got the cake for that, handling of a bus with only up to 4 IR missiles until you reach tier 3 modifications.. that increase it to 6 IRs. BVR? You get SARHs while the R-77 has the least range of any radar guided missile in top tier.

[@Agm1995gamer]

I barely see any su27's around and when I do they don't do great. I fly the F15A for now and I manage to get 1-2 kill every game

[@GRNbull98]

Adding the block 50 instead of the block 30/32 or Block 40/42 CG with the shittier radar basically shot the game ij the foot this patch . I think if the F-16C was an F-16CG Blk 42 from the early 90s with the shittier AN/APG-68 version that had way less range and a worse population time, it’d have been much more balanced instead of the F-16C Blk 50 we have in game right now which is literally using a radar from the 2010s. I hope Gaijin adds more less capable F-16s between the ADF and Blk 50 while maturing the capabilities of the Blk 50 because realistically, once it reaches “near full power” with AIM-120C-7s and the AIM-9X, it could honestly be a 14.0-14.7 fighter. I say all of this while being a colossal USA main.

[@vczs]

though radar itself is obviously worse I believe big mouth block 30s were the best dogfighters of the bunch (small margin tho). At least that's what people that flew them were telling. That could've been a good trade-off against block-50. They also lack HMS and air-to-ground capabilities of block 50 for sure.

[@GRNbull98]

@@vczs I think that would have been a better addition than the late model Blk 50 which realistically is one of the best non-AESA 4th generation multirole fighters of all time. I’m all for there being like 7 F-16s in the USA tech tree but I’d also like if there more “shitty” F-16Cs too so OTHER nations can enjoy the game without getting avionics mogged by a datalinked AIM-120D in the future lmfao

[@mikkim-mh9bc]

Top tier should honestly already be at 13.7 or 14.0 because right now there's no room (or reason) to add stuff between 12.0 and 13.0 because you're just going to be sticking free food in range of the current top tiers.

[@GRNbull98]

@@mikkim-mh9bc yeah honestly. An 12.0-12.7 and a 13.0-13.7 bracket would be nice as it’d keep stuff like the MiG-29 from getting washed by F-16Cs and keep F-15As from literally ruining the game for everyone like it did back when it was first introduced & would be in the same BR bracket as MiG-23s and Mirage F1s which could not do anything at all against it

[@mikkim-mh9bc]

@@GRNbull98 Pretty much everything from 11.3 and up needs a readjustment. I realize F-14/F-16 spam was rough but it was also really bad with the MLD completely dominating for like half a year before the F-14A was added, and even then it wasn't until the B model was added that the gap became significant, with some matchups against the MLD being closer to an MLD vs an F-14B. It was there a little bit as well with the F-4E before that but AIM-7s were so buggy when they were first added you pretty much couldn't kill anything with them-- now that the MLD/ML's flight models have been tamed it probably isn't as bad, but it's impossible to get an accurate picture with all of the 12.0+ aircraft being absolute menaces. People point at the (obvious) Gen 4 problem children, but some of the Gen 3 jets are serious problems in a down tier. Very few of the 11.3 aircraft have any business seeing most 10.3 jets (exceptions including F-5C/SMT/F-8), we just don't notice because A) premium and attacker spam, and B) near-constant uptiers to 12.0/12.3. But now that ARH missiles are here and multipathing has been reduced there isn't a lot of room for the 12.0/12.3s with limited or no SARH missiles. There's no way an F-16A or MiG-29 should go down in BR, if anything they should be the current 12.7/13.0, but Gaijin seems unwilling to move Air and Ground BRs too far apart even though they've finally added mode-unique battle ratings.

[@saplingseedsaccrew3143]

The maps in Sim already felt pretty tight if you had a large lobby of players roaming around the map and now that ARH dynamically brings BVR back to the scene with a various array of long range weapons the need for larger map sizes is evermore present. Gaijin could double or even quadruple their current map sizes but also allow players to choose which size of map they want to play on based on how they want their gameplay experience to be. I also think that they could add an option to have a max player limit for people who want to make a game room but not be overwhelmed by 16v16 gameplay.

[@D0gEAtD0g]

Sim is forgotten for them, unfortunately. As an example, the open cockpit abuse in sim is often reported and nothing is done stil. If they cannot fix such small problems, I don't know how they can give us something bigger😢

[@saplingseedsaccrew3143]

@@D0gEAtD0g Well Gaijin does seem to forget about those things and leave them unfixed forever but unless we massively push for a change with enough people we can only hope that they randomly decide to fix the game mode in another update. I mean they unnecessarily went out of their way to model tons of new ground vehicles: MLRS, radar stations, missile launchers putting them into Air RB and they also fixed HEAT with mavericks and hellfires so it could happen when we least expect it.

[@СергейНикольский-я2ц]

Btw F-15J’s radar has the same issue that M2K’s and M4K’s had a couple months ago, it doesn’t trigger RWR (launch notification to be precise) and shown as question mark

[@TheDAWinz]

Move the SU-27SM down 1 BR and give us the SU-35!!!

[@ferrous3262]

at this point would the su-35 even bring to the game it has less flares than the 27

[@TheDAWinz]

@@ferrous3262 PESA radar with a faster refresh rate (obviously), as well as R-37M access (and r-77-1 if you care about that)

[@ferrous3262]

@@TheDAWinz r77-1 looks like it isnt even better than aim120-a in the files

[@TheDAWinz]

@@ferrous3262 It's a decent improvement over the R-77/RVV-AE, but R-37M would be the nice addition.

[@lazer2238]

I disagree, even though I play red, We don’t need a Su-35 just yet. We need the Su-27SM3 which its upgraded engines, radar and R-77-1.

[@СергейНикольский-я2ц]

idk, Ive played for 2 days ~8 hours per day in the SMT and had around 4-6 K/D in pretty much every lobbie (basically the only one where I had around 1.5 is the lobbie where i was alone against 6 AMRAAM spammers and 1 Bizon), though it is because of the SMT’s 170deg radar, Su sucks a lot as well as R-77’s, these missiles have less range than the R-24 at any altitude, literally And all these fox-3’s are crazy hungry for chaffs, 2-3 pops in 3-9 and any fox-3 is gone

[@D0gEAtD0g]

Seeing this narrow mode of the radar makes me wanna cry (su-27 owner)

[@ryox82]

Playing against US in this BR sucks but if you let your fellow missiles sponges ahead of you and do the twisties until everyone gets their load out, and then go in with a 27ER. If you have no terrain you might as well just J though.

[@cacciorix]

The problem is not the multipath or the fox-3, the real problem are maps design and gamemodes. We can only hope that now these problems will become relevant to gaijin. Bigger maps would help a lot.

[@mtunit]

Time for a two month break,,,,later .

[@akagalaxy_4403]

I only played sim to do sead or destroy ships / carriers and i havent even considered playing sim since its just going to be constant missle spam and personally i dont find being defensive 24/7 fun

[@bjorn.thorvaldson]

Is your radar in F16 working good? No glitches or bugs in TWS?

[@ferrous3262]

su-33 cant even be added anymore it won't be able to compete

[@flyinghigh8914]

I vote for more immersive missions in sim. Tired of shooting fish in a barrel. We have all sorts of tools and bombs, drop tanks and nothing to do with them.

[@nomikomaryu5049]

For anyone who complains kills are too easy or too hard, it's called evading a missile. Just an extra skill to learn. Yeah, it's a skill to learn how to force a missile to lose energy and close the distance for a bfm fight. Try it some time rather than complain this isn't arcade anymore.

[@squishface80085]

Okay buddy... I'll take f-16 and you take flanker...and you can show me how it's done..how about that?

[@Reztuhh424]

@@squishface80085he’s right you just need to learn cause I’m pretty confident I could beat you ina dogfight or bvr

[@squishface80085]

@@Reztuhh424 What is your IGN? We can run it if you want.

[@MrMatmulan]

@@squishface80085 And they dont reply anymore hahaha

[@haykasatryan8331]

As a Germany main, i swore off air top tier a while ago. Air germany is pretty weak in general, you get a nice assortment of wünderwaffes at around 6.0-7.6 everything after that is pure torture. You can't dogfight anything, your piece of shit Soviet tin cans somehow handle worse than wooden contraptions of late WW2, and you don't even get good armaments to compensate for it. Its Tigers and Panthers for me unless something changes.

[@clicktresni6298]

I honestly think it's pretty good. I was getting really tired of having to dodge trees just to avoid the f****** missiles because that was the easiest way and now notching and what not is seems to be working pretty good. Definitely very busy, they need to give us a billion more f****** targets and a much more interactive battle to be involved in. I want to see the convoys continue across the map onto the enemy airfields if we don't stop them things like that

[@clicktresni6298]

Imagine the tanks would start taking out the anti-aircraft on the airfield and their anti-aircraft would get in range of the airfield and that would be it. The game would be basically over. It would be really f****** cool honestly

[@ferrous3262]

just go play ace combat if you want pve

[@clicktresni6298]

@@ferrous3262 And you don't see m to make very much sense. Like 99% of war. Thunder is PVE. It's all PVE. Every single level is PVE or landing. Your airplane and shooting people down is like the easiest f****** thing in the whole world. It's like baby game you like baby game big baby man .

[@clicktresni6298]

@@ferrous3262 And we're talking about Sim man enduring confrontation it's all about PVE. That's what it is. It is a PVE game mode and it's your choice. If you want to defend your e or if you want to lose the game you don't defend your e or kill the enemies e you lose the game, I think they should take that zone capture mechanic out because it's not fair at all. People who are flying close air support how are you supposed to hold that sector against jets that are designed to kill you and you're trying to attack the ground. They're not attacking the ground and then they can still win the game broken baby game

[@remagdak]

Is there a real difference when you are playing it between the American F-16C and the Belgian F-16AM?

[@P3S4R]

F16AM is better in some ways, it has better flight model, it has MAW which is useful if you get within 9M range, and it can play on red side and blue side, which is great since you get to abuse American players with amraams, but F16C does have better engine which means it is better in BVR iirc

[@TheSuperbadkid]

"The fear mongering is strong with this one." -Yoda or some shit

[@Tjurenz]

I don't think this is "as good as it's gonna get" for red team. Blue team basically got the best BVR fighter in the game available right on patch-day with the F16C. Red team has to grind ~600k RP for the SU27SM, J11A, Swedish JAS39C, Japanese F15 and even more for the French F16 with AIM120's including stock grind.

[@squishface80085]

I've already seen plenty of Su-27SM and that plane just isn't it. The radar is still awful. The R-77 is also the shortest ranged ARH in the game. Compare pretty much anyone's K/D or W/L ratio of old Flanker vs New Flanker and you'll see that it's worse. The only planes that might "save" red side are copy pastes of US Planes and the Jas-39C because it carries AMRAAMs. But also half of those wild card minor nation sides are usually on the same side. So yeah...imma stick to my point that this update and the multi-pathing change is abysmal dogshit.

[@TheBLAZI]

i would say its not that everyone wanted to be usa, but when game came in there was only usa ger ang rus xD moste of players choosed to play usa at that time and dont have time to grind other nations xD

[@cypher1o1]

I mean to be fair, F-16C, F-15C, etc dunks on everything IRL. Same thing with IRL AH-64D with FCR this is why most games dont sim them accurately.

[@cypher1o1]

In DCS, it is possible (not sure how well WT sims radar) to fight modern US fighters BVR, but it is really tough to learn since 9/10 you die 4 mins after you make a mistake and it really is a game of chess. There is a reason why IRL pilots spend months' learning systems and practice

[@MeanHereAT]

I Knew it, and it makes me sad ):

[@CaptainMurphy627]

Nice work fignuts, get back to Pod 6

[@marty4286]

These comments i swear to god (background is entirely blue team F-16 gameplay) Rando: "Haha, skill issue, red team" (???)

[@squishface80085]

I think it just shows that there is a non-insignificant amount of players who want the game to be broken as long as they benefit from it. These are the same players that cried bloody murder about the R-27ER, MiG-29, and the R-73 for the past two years.

[@dcviper139]

​@squishface80085 2 years you say. Every nation that didn't get r73 and ers suffered for 2 years and its bin maybe a week, they already have made some changes. Granted to no missles just fixing what they broke when the update dropped. Its still in the learning stages of what they broke like always and what needs changed. In maybe another week or 2 120 will be taken care of and probably go back to what we had before this update or hopefully a complete rebalance of all missles so people stop crying. Focuse more on the maps and map design, terrain quality like monster trees rather than missle performance. Top tier has shit maps

[@squishface80085]

@@dcviper139 Why was multi-pathing set at 100m when R-27ER was the best thing on the block? Why were people complaining that radar missiles were too irrelevant in the old meta that multi-pathing had to be changed? It doesn't make any sense. If the R-27ER was oppressive in multipath meta...then everyone that said it had to be changed because it made radar missiles irrelevant was not being honest. If multi-pathing made radar missiles irrelevant...then the only thing that was relevant in Air SB was IR missiles...and guess what...Aim-9M was far more relevant in SB. I had 97 percent win rate in F-16C when R-73 was introduced on the MiG-29SMT...and only 10-15 percent win rate in the MiG-29SMT. My personal opinion is that the best top tier sim meta was original F-16 and MiG-29 meta. All of the missiles were roughly equally defeatable...Aim-9L was better than R-60 and R-27ER was better than Aim-7F. At the same time...the MiG-29 had a reasonable chance against F-16 in first 2-3 turns but a smart F-16 player would win any fight after that. But a smart MiG-29 player could accelerate away and attempt to reset the fight. Currently top tier doesn't have any of that...outside of the one lobby where experienced players congregate on the "red" team to make it somewhat competitive...and they are competing with players that are basically brand new at the game. I don't hate to be negative...I'm not going to apologize for it like other people will...but this update objectively sucks for sim. The only thing that is disguising it is the fact that BvR feels new to most players.

[@daddy_marx6823]

honest question cause I don't play sim, does 60 vs 100 meters really eliminate the deck hugging meta? obviously its harder but is it really impossible for people to the point where the entire meta is different? I still deck hug in RB and it's been fine. Actually I probably get more kills now cause there's so many people climbing... but I don't know

[@ferrous3262]

ground hugging is impossible in rb trees are way to tall and the terrain is inconsistent

[@hemendraravi4787]

Anyways back to Russian bias , wHeRe aiM 9x

[@ferrous3262]

r u naruto24k?

[@hemendraravi4787]

@@ferrous3262 no , why ? , btw what do u play ?

[@ferrous3262]

@@hemendraravi4787 i thought that was your ingame name for like the past 2 years. i try to play every tech tree

[@hemendraravi4787]

@@ferrous3262 who are you ? and yea i am naruto24k lol

[@ferrous3262]

@@hemendraravi4787 Ferrousimpala32

[@theflyingpanda6760]

Welcome to modern aerial warfare 😂

[@flyinghigh8914]

I only play sim. If sim dies... the game dies. Someone has to pay the bills around here 😂.

[@jeffzkiller3590]

game dies because like 1 out of 100 sim players leaves ok buddy

[@josippetkovic389]

This game is dry as a mfker. I'd recummend ME1,2,3 in that order

[@salltyboi]

so basically the game is.... ded?

[@johnpaul-b9h]

i like the new meta in rb, furballs are finally extinct.

[@moirakadhan745]

Yeah, the match ends after 2 minutes instead of 5, and you don't even get the fun dogfight part :') Total ass, if you ask me

[@johnpaul-b9h]

@@moirakadhan745 Saying that current matches end after 2 minutes shows that you didn't even touch top tier after the update, also saying that now you Can't dogfight properly implying that it was possible before shows that perhaps you never touched top tier at all...

[@moirakadhan745]

@@johnpaul-b9h Literally the only thing I've played since the update is the F16C

[@johnpaul-b9h]

@@moirakadhan745 there's not a single match i've played that ended in less than 10 minutes and that's because the furball has ended, I can send you multiple screenshots to prove it If you want.

[@jeffzkiller3590]

i think youre just burnt out, need to take a break instead of complaining, you dont HAVE to play

[@ferrous3262]

you dropped this king🧠

[@FeatheredDino]

Sounds like you wabt to play Ace Combat. So go play it

[@PixCro]

Finally us SIM sharks got our way and we're destroying those multipath crutchers out of Simulator Battles 😆😆

[@misslebirdgaming8357]

Hmmmmm

[@DotIsReckless]

womp womp cry more america triumphs irl america triumphs in a realistic game

[@theskald7675]

cry harder

[@lazer2238]

US mains when they dominate: US mains when Russia gets something good “OP OP NERF NERF”

[@guardrailhitter]

@@lazer2238 fr

[@sakyuz6080]

L take cope harder

[@lazer2238]

Playing red is pain, once F16C got added playing red wasn’t really worth it.

[@sakyuz6080]

@@lazer2238 i enjoy playing red m2k tbh

[@bigmemer4398]

@@sakyuz6080 m2k not really red... but yeah REDFOR needs better stuff 2 datalink channels with shitty R77 sucks There's a lot that can be added, J-10, J-11B, Su 30, JF-17, Mig 35 etc

[@xxragexx0275]

You complain A LOT about War Thunder but still make content for it😂. Stop trashing red side I've seen PLENTY of 27's that know what they're doing with this new meta. This video sounds like a skill issue 🤷🏾.

[@squishface80085]

Do you ever play Su-27? I have literally never seen you in anything that isn't USA at top tier...except for maybe once or twice in the MiG-29G.

[@xxragexx0275]

@@squishface80085 what does that matter what I play in? The point was you trashing red side when I've seen PLENTY of good Su27 pilots. PLAYING USA top tier as much as I do, it's safe to say I've come across many Su27's🤪. So again, sound like a skill issue to me. 🤷🏾

[@TeamValkyrie2023]

​​@@squishface80085 dude sounds like typical usa main. They cry like babies if they get killed for nerfs to the plane that killed them, but when gaijin puts in a bum vehicle for another country usa mains scream skill issue. 😂

[@TeamValkyrie2023]

Glad they cut back on the mig23 nerf. Germany wins one, usa get better at countering them, sounds like u guys have a skill issue

[@ninjato5611]

​@xxragexx0275 Bro, stop being cringe and play Red top tier. Actually, grind out a Flanker or Fulcrum with R77s and tell me your experience when you're done. So spoiled by Allied aircraft, you're making me cringe.