Beethoven: Sonata Op.81a "Les Adieux / Farewell" - Historical Tempo Reconstruction - Wim Winters

[@BryanMatuskey]

Love to hear Wim on the piano!

[@AlbertoSegovia.]

In the third movement, when you reach those subject-closing mini chorales... my heart melts and I re-live this sonata. Thanks to all of you for this historical work!

[@AuthenticSound]

thank you

[@Garrett_Rowland]

"What a nice song is that?" The last movement definitely has a very danceable, singable quality to it. People sometimes see things that are easy to enjoy as less worthwhile, but in this case I don't feel any malice in saying that it is a very easy-to-enjoy movement. I can see myself coming back to this performance simply to relive the fun that is the finale.

[@AlbertoSegovia.]

Many have asked me that question when listening to the piece!

[@williamhuband7913]

Thank you again Wim ! It gave me insights & more delight than ever - wonderful playing,on an instrument which allows your sensitivity of dynamics,and clarity of diction to come through!

[@AuthenticSound]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@wolkowy1]

It is indeed a pure magic, as you've said in you info. section (connected to timing), and yes - the music speaks. More than that: it is telling us a story, and you've told us this story in (almost) a perfect way ("almost" because of holding too much the 1st note of each bar, in too many places, although you've kept it not exaggerated while doing this) - all those tiny little elements (including the few places with pedal, according to Beethoven himself), were taken care of, by your sensitive beautiful performance. Bravo!

[@siegfriedstark]

Very nice playing, Wim! Thanks a lot!

[@AuthenticSound]

Glad you like it!

[@kaybrown4010]

Exquisite. Thank you!

[@rnregan]

Excellent! 👏

[@AuthenticSound]

Thank you! 😃

[@harrisnaturist]

Beautiful, Wim! At this tempo, one feels the pain of separation as the coach rolls slowly away (no Uber back then!), the longing of absence and the joy of reunion.

[@EdmundoPFN]

That was very good! Thanks!

[@AuthenticSound]

Glad you liked it!

[@albarrakaka]

I love the pedalling (or lack thereof). Everything is so clear. Every little articulation, you can hear it all in this performance. I'm amazed at how you can keep the tension and hold the piece together paying at this tempo, that cannot be easy.

[@anthonymccarthy4164]

Spectacular, that piano seems to get better every time I hear it. You lead me to commit one of the deadly sins every time.

[@michaelnancyamsden7410]

Delighted to find this new upload today. It is wonderful to hear new pieces. This is my first time to hear it. Thank you. The last movement is beautiful. Very emotional. I hate when music profs belittle best efforts and crush spirits. Had it happen to me in the flute sectional at music camp. It really hurt. I had to build a wall. That happened with a piano audition also. I was crushed. Those experiences guaranteed my goal would be medical school.

[@FulvioGa]

Wonderful! I could listen to it all day long.

[@moussebrewer9411]

Oh yes! Thanks Wim, this is my favourite sonata, I have long waited to hear you play it. Thank you

[@AuthenticSound]

Glad you like it!

[@jonathancourbet]

It doesn't matter which side of the SB/WB argument you are on, this performance is expert musicianship. Bravo Wim!! Personally, being a guitarist has me being for Single Beat as classical/romantic era works could not be sustained even on a modern guitar at a WB tempo, let alone a more fragile and quiet romantic guitar. Mauro Giuliani's Rossini paraphrases, or Paganini's works are great examples. I will happily be proved wrong though.

[@AuthenticSound]

Thanks Juan, then thing with single beat is that it is used often as a term for 'fast tempi', which it not accurate. SIngle Beat refers to the reading of the metronome as we do today and then apply that reading to authentic metronome marks. A substantial portion (30, 40...60? %) becomes totally out of anyone's range for to be technically realized. Hence the additional 'T' to SB, since it always will be a theory, since that's what we call principles who only apply to a theory and not to practice. Hope this clarifies

[@jonathancourbet]

AuthenticSound thanks Wim for your comment, it certainly clarifies SBT and WBT a bit.

[@AlbertoSegovia.]

Waiting for this!

[@ThePultzFamily]

Beautiful performance, - thank you!

[@AuthenticSound]

Thanks for listening

[@xisailuo]

Truly beautiful performance. After years of listening to and enjoying much, much faster performances, the first time I listened to your performance it did not have the same colours that I had come to see in the piece. But after listening to it again, I am beginning to see new colours, ones that I hadn't seen before. I am beginning to appreciate the piece in new ways. Thank you for this experience of beauty!

[@AuthenticSound]

thanks!

[@xisailuo]

Interesting story in the description. This has long been my favourite of his sonatas and perhaps my favourite of all his works, so I am very excited to hear it for the first time in whole beat!

[@SarahRoseStiles]

Hmmm......was Beethoven really such an exacting character ? Was he a pedantic beat counter, a mathematical accountant, or a wild creative passionate beast ? How do we know that what was written is exactly what he played ? Was he more like a jazz musician who swings the music ? Some composers never played their pieces the same. How did he play this when drunk compared to sober ? Does this tempo help convey Beethoven's "goodbye" message ? Did his audience want to hear it like this; were they satisfied or falling asleep ? Or were they expecting to hear some exciting hunting horns ? It is truly nice to hear some of the exotic lines in this piece played slower, and I have already wondered if it really should be slower than often played. Though, at this "Historic Tempo" some other parts just don't make musically-pleasing sense - maybe it would if there was some reverb. I appreciate all your research, reasoning, logic, case-building, and alternative interpretation, but I think there must be more to consider other than purely rhythmic values. And if indeed you are correct, then I can't help but think the metronomes of Beethoven's time were calibrated a bit faster. I really don't think this is what Beethoven intended.

[@AuthenticSound]

Beethoven counted every morning 60 beans for his coffee. Not about 60. But for his art he said : whatever. Hmm....not so sure about that

[@thomashughes4859]

@@AuthenticSound HAHA! As a man who counts beans myself (21g to 350ml of water), I would say Beethoven made a smashing good cup of Java! 60 beans for 6 fl ozs is quite good at a 4-min steep. ☕👌

[@maravillaromerojoseadolfo164]

There are some stories about how people used to cry at Beethoven performances, and how he would get pissed off by this. For years I heard Beethoven like a madlad on the piano, i found no way all the legends about that tormentend and expressive artist they claimed him to be, would be true. But Whim really makes me hear the Beethoven that all those Stories talks about. THANKS FOR THIS AWESOME PERFORMANCE!!!! (sorry for my poor english btw)

[@CarlosAcevedoMX]

Excellent performance.

[@laurentp.2086]

C'est Beethoven sous Xanax !

[@kefka34]

Fantastic! One of the best recordings on the channel.

[@thomashughes4859]

Agreed, Seno! This one was _really_ good!

[@Dubickimus]

Oh wow, you crushed the final movement! Great Playing!

[@fidelmflores1786]

I've never heard this before in concert or in recording. I was aware of it of course but I've never looked at it either (late Beethoven, why bother trying?). I started listening and I could not follow it or understand it. I turned it off to go fetch my Henle urtext Beethoven Sonatas Vol II. Restarted the recording and followed along in the score. Ok, started making a lot more sense. Hmmm, interesting artistic choices peppered all about, pretty sure I wouldn't do it that way but I get where you're coming from. 66 in the 2nd mvt? Sounds more like 60-62 and I'd rather have it at 68-70 but again I get where you're coming from. Final movement, are you really going to tell me modern performers play it twice as fast? You gotta be joking! When I got to the end all of a sudden 81a made complete sense from the opening 3 note Lebewohl to the very last chord. This is a remarkable work and an absolutely fabulous performance. Simply amazing. But I had to be patient and hear it all the way through. Beethoven conceives music on such a massive scale, it's hard to take in at once. I am utterly gobsmacked by this performance. I always feel Beethoven is talking to me when I play the sonatas. It's like having a heart to heart with a dear mentor & friend. Hearing Wim play, I can tell Wim is having exactly that kind of talk with ol' Louis. I get the feeling they are best friends!

[@AuthenticSound]

thanks for sharing!

[@nicthe85]

The best revelations are those that are hard earned. Cheers.

[@DismasZelenka]

Final movement: Artur Schnabel, 5 minutes. Wim Winters, 10 minutes. (Rubinstein 4 minutes, but he doesn't repeat the first section, so add 1 and a half minutes.)

[@katakhresis2796]

Feeling is 'affect', though it ultimately contributes to the reception of the 'effect'.

[@AlbertoSegovia.]

And in the first, a truly zen moment at the end... one connects with Beethoven’s humanity in a way not different than one does to Max Richter or J.N. Howard...

[@andrewjames6676]

Frankly I enjoy this sonata (I first heard it in the 1950s) both at this slow tempo and the more usual tempo as played by Kempff (kzbin.info/www/bejne/o6bUlnSlobeZpdE). The last movement has always irresistibly made me think of a dog welcoming its master or mistress after a long absence, leaping up, it's tail wagging furiously. I think there is room for a wide range of tempi, without being dogmatic about it. But let us not have too much rubato when it's not called for, and even notes as much as possible.

[@ExAnimoPortugal]

Such delicacy and longing! I didn't know this work, so I don't have any bias. Actually sounds pretty good like this.

[@thomashughes4859]

Another "one of my favourites" on tap! 😍

[@laurentp.2086]

Quelle est la référence en ce qui concerne le mouvement métronomique ? Je vois que la seule sonate, selon les éditions Henle Verlag, à laquelle Beethoven a attribué un mouvement est l'op.109 (n°29), pour chaque mouvement. Comment interpréteriez-vous une indication à la blanche pointée = 80 (le scherzo) ? Ou l'adagio sostenuto indiqué à la croche = 92, ou encore le largo du dernier mouvement à la double-croche = 76 ?

[@StrivetobeDust]

I loved the tempo, but there are times that I long for smoother phrasing.

[@TheSummoner]

I really like this interpretation. The last movement finally sounds like a warm welcome from a human being (instead of a manic one from a dog or something). I meant to ask: in which language(s) is the book you are re-writing with Gadient going to be published (at least ideally)?

[@AuthenticSound]

Thank you. The book will be in English

[@thomashughes4859]

Not one but _TWO_ moments of l'istesso tempo! And the Master adjusts the tempi via his use of the note values. Talk about brilliance! In 1810, these were the tempi in use. No matter how you slice it and dice it, the measures per minutes are the same according to Czerny, so pick a slower alla breve or a too fast 6/8, but you cannot have _BOTH_ because of the l'istesso tempo. Makes me want to learn this piece, Wim, thanks!

[@thomashughes4859]

I should have added not only note values but also time signatures. Phenomenal Beethoven. I shall _NEVER_ cancel you, Master Beethoven! Beethoven Lives, and that's all that matters!

[@muhittincankorkut6094]

I always felt that the last movement was too fast and it sound uncomfortable for most of pianist interpretation. I think it s just too fast to sound it right :)

[@muhittincankorkut6094]

@@LachlanTyrrell2003 maybe it is already the liveliest tempo for people 150 years ago :D. Maybe not? So your argumant is meaningless.

[@muhittincankorkut6094]

I am not defending double metronom theory whatever it is. Your reasoning is meaningless because maybe playing lively was different 200 years ago?

[@muhittincankorkut6094]

@@LachlanTyrrell2003 highly probably you are right but they wont be convinced by that argument :D

[@audeo1634]

I can't understand how you count the tempo ternario of the third movement.. that Is, i Understand the double beat theory in the binary tempo (4/4, 2/4 ...) But not in the ternary tempo (6/8)..

[@classicgameplay10]

He talks about this in other videos, tactus inaequalis.

[@ericrakestraw664]

I keep seeing a face under the metronome every time you cut to a side view of the piano!

[@thomashughes4859]

Scary music plays ... kzbin.info/www/bejne/o52veKqNbMp7iqs

[@tom_szcz_org]

Do I hear an unequal temperament on the pianoforte? 🧐

[@johnb6723]

In those times they used Well Temperament, which is marginally different from Equal Temperament.

[@tom_szcz_org]

I know that fact, but I asked specifically about this recording. I tuned my piano at home to Young’s temperament and I really enjoy the outcome

[@Renshen1957]

@@tom_szcz_org Young is one several "Circulating Temperaments," Well Temperaments. You might find this of interest... TUNING Containing The Perfection of Eighteenth-Century Temperament The Lost Art of Nineteenth-Century Temperament and the Science of Equal Temperament Complete With Instructions for Aural and Electronic Tuning by Owen H. Jorgensen Michigan State University Press East Lansing, Michigan 48823-5202 ISBN 0-87013-290-3

[@AuthenticSound]

It is ""equal temperament"" that goes a bit left or right depending on the weather. A fortepiano isn't stable as a modern piano, it needs a lot of 'tuning' attention, so hence the little color shifts. It adds life to it as well

[@e1ay]

@@AuthenticSound Have you tried other temperaments or even pitch hight (Verdi tuning) on this wonderful instrument? Maybe it is possible to make the sound even more crystalline?

[@tarikeld11]

Inteseting, the first movement is not slow at all, I would even say moments like 3:07 are pretty fast. After listening to many WB performances, I feel like many Allegros and Prestos of modern interpretations sound too rushed, but all in all I like both, WB and SB.

[@andrewjames6676]

Sorry, "its tail". Unforgivable error by an English teacher!!!