Behind the Design of the Fake Item Box

I've heard the opinion often that the Fake Item Box is simply a worse Banana. It doesn't look like a real Item Box, so no one would fall for it, and it can't block against items, so it's not a defensive tool either. The thing is, this misses what the design of the Fake Item Box actually is. Let's talk about that.

[@puffmain3276]

Fun fact: the fake item box actually isn't always red. In Double Dash and Wii, they look like real item boxes from a distance, only turning red when the player is withing a certain proximity

[@TheSpah]

I thought that was only Double Dash?

[@bighomiemike5675]

@@TheSpahyea don’t remember this on wii

[@Squiddoboii]

​@@bighomiemike5675 Nope it is on Wii, you just have to be way too far away for it to be practical.

[@TheAechBomb]

and in DS they were just regular boxes which didn't spin, afaik

[@UDUC]

@bighomiemike5675 they do change color in mkwii, but in the midst of a race it can be hard to notice unless you’re specifically looking for it

[@TheLobsterCopter5000]

It's a banana peel that has a bigger hitbox, stuns you for longer, can sometimes blend in with item boxes, and which triple shells won't protect you from.

[@Sparronator9999]

And also can't be used to protect _against_ shells (like with bananas/shells held behind you)

[@Altiami]

Something else that people forget is that it was MUCH easier to fool people with the fake item box before Mario Kart Wii. * In MK64, it looks almost EXACTLY the same unless you focus for the upside-down question mark, which is hard to see from a distance. * In MKDD, again, it looks EXACTLY like an item box until you get closer, and by then, it might be too late to dodge it. * In MKDS, the small screen makes it difficult to see if the "item box" lacks a question mark and isn't rotating, though this is mitigated by it being a telling red color on the touch screen map, IF the player is using the close-by view instead of the full. It wasn't until MKW that the fake item box became laughably obvious. Even though it does still try to look like exactly like an item box from a distance like it did in MKDD, item boxes in MKW are larger, meaning the question mark is larger and easier to see, and on top of that, fake item boxes lose their disguise at a shorter distance! So on top of the points raised in this video, the fake item box is useful when its visual trickery isn't nerfed to becoming pointless! I can't blame people for not remembering how it was in previous games since its last game was it at its worst

[@greninjamariokartpokemonfan]

Actually, Double Dash was when the Fake Item Box became painfully obvious, as that was when the Fake Item Box got its red color, making it painfully obvious. Also, DS makes the Fake Item Box even less useful, as it clearly marks them red on the map. It was dead obvious by now what ones are the Fake Item Boxes, no need to add another way to tell. No one's falling for this anymore.

[@hamburger2430]

@@greninjamariokartpokemonfan The fake item boxes in double dash turning red doesn't make them painfully obvious in my opinion. As mentioned in the comment above, they also often only turn red when it's too late to swerve out of the way. Where I agree with you, though, (and disagree with the original commenter) is that the fake item boxes in ds are laughably terrible. I'd even go as far as to say that they're at their worst in that game, as the bottom screen would mark them red, and most good players online would be paying about as much attention to the bottom screen as the top screen to keep track of everyone's items and the racers around them. So not only did they provide no defense against red shells or any other items, but you also couldn't trick players into hitting them, or even hide them around corners very well like you can in wii.

[@greninjamariokartpokemonfan]

@@hamburger2430 And let's not forget Wii, where the item is not only red, but is significantly larger than real Item Boxes, making it even more obvious.

[@naverilllang]

​@@greninjamariokartpokemonfanthey're still devilish in DS because it can be hard to translate the red square in the map to exactly which of the identical looking item boxes you're approaching is the fake one. The map gives up the game much of the time, but not all of the time

[@holdommi7505]

i always liked placing fake item boxes and bananas where i land after big jumps

[@janthehuman1679]

You can also place a fake item box inside of an existing item box, thus making collecting that blocked item box into a trade off that players won’t want to take (and which players might not even notice in MK64, due to the fake and real item boxes being the same color). If the blocked item box is also on one of the faster driving lines, such as closer to the inside of the track, it also forces those behind you in the race to take less optimal driving lines. This can help further your lead. Even better if the fake item box is blocking where a double item box usually appears. Fake item boxes can also be used as a way to help prevent tailgaters from getting a speed boost from sticking close to your tail (though the threat of any item can do that pretty easily). Tbh, I usually would just drag my fake item box behind me to either drop it on someone righht behind me as if using it like a back-thrown shell, or just placing it the next time I pass through a real item box (to do the blocked item box strat).

[@amimirmimir512]

also works in MKDS

[@1creeperbomb]

The first thing I learned to do with this was drop it inside actual boxes which would get guarantee that CPUs would hit them. The second thing I learned to do with these was place them in trap locations just like Bananas because the larger hitbox made it very difficult to dodge with actual players.

[@sneepsnoop9547]

"The lack of fake item boxes in the item pool makes frontrunning in modern Mario Kart too dominant" was such a mind blowing perspective I had never considered. Yes, it's a "bad" item if say you're the guy pulling it in 1st place, but its implementation was *good* for the pace of the game as a whole. This video really changed how I feel about this item.

[@miimiiandco]

And then *coin* happened

[@somekinnn]

Fake Item Box haters when they encounter it on the DK Jungle Parkway Bridge:

[@UDUC]

parkway bridge is an evil fake item box spot

[@somekinnn]

@@UDUC I use it on my dad a lot whenever we play MKWii together, I've been playing it with him quite a bit since it came out. He's still very casual, but he's still interested when I talk about the more technical and community sides of the game and so and enjoys me showing him CTGP. It really is a special game.

[@broodlingg]

Fake item box haters when they encounter a fake item box on the inside of the spiral on N64 bowser's castle

[@HauntedKnight-cj8kv]

@@broodlingg Fake item box haters when they realize the blooper is worse AND it's in most mk entries

[@UDUC]

@broodlingg that's also a good spot

[@dichotomae]

*clicking on video* there's no way someone can talk for ten minutes about this edit: I stand corrected

[@ElleYellow]

Item box always felt like a stronger banana to me.

[@ArxCyberwolfPC]

Except as a defensive item, in which case it's worse than a banana.

[@mk8-mkwil117]

@@ArxCyberwolfPCit’s not to me it’s the equivalent to a shell just with longer slightly animation time because stun

[@ArxCyberwolfPC]

@@mk8-mkwil117 It's useless as a defensive item. Shells and other items go right through it. Bananas are worse than fake item boxes as an offensive item, but better as a defensive item.

[@mk8-mkwil117]

@@ArxCyberwolfPC true to me it’s better then the coin item in general at least u can use it to trap certain spots on the track plus the it has. Larger hit-box. I think the coin item should be removed from Mario kart until they can stop putting a 10coin cap limit would make it slightly better but still useless. The only thing I like about the fib at least it’s defensive item but not only that u can trap shortcut with it and other stuff that the coin item just does hold up to it being uselessly defensive it’s absolutely useless item

[@Crackhog]

​@@mk8-mkwil117 why do you randomly start comparing them to the coin item?

[@hirocoldy6023]

Blooper and Fake Item Box in Mario Kart DS being the absolute goats at stopping rubber banding CPUs.

[@heyhackurs]

yeah but this is only useful in GPs and not competitive online play. Blooper was only good in MK7 for playing with other players because of how much getting hit by the blooper screwed up your drift (very easy to drift out of bounds/in dirt) and being hit by it just bogged the gameplay down. Glad it got nerfed in mk8 but now its near useless except in GPs. Fake Item Boxes have much more utility across the franchise while also being more fair to players who are losing. They still haven't found a way to make blooper useful without making it overtly busted.

[@UDUC]

@heyhackurs the blooper didn't actually affect your drifting in mario kart 7, that feature of it wasn't added until mario kart 8

[@thecrimsoncreep6665]

It's funny because, in MKWii, on team mode, the blue team had a slight advantage as the blue fake item box is far harder to tell apart from the real one than the red.

[@joshslater2426]

I always liked the Fake Item Box being red, mostly because it made it look distinct from the regular item boxes. It does look normal until you get close up, and in order for it to work you need the player to be unfamiliar with the item layout. I still want it to return though.

[@jismeraiverhoeven]

Actually it still wont work when someone is unfamiliar with the lsyout simply because they will be able to see its not a real one (even if late). The best fake item box would be one that would look almost exactly the same (so the n64 one did it best)

[@justcallmexen]

I like the talk about how the item can be used by placing it on driving lines that are hard to pull out from when they are committed to. I don't think I'd say that it is "a necessary part of game balance", but it is convincing me that there is a use for this item outside what many people consider, and I think that gets people thinking.

[@floofzykitty5072]

It's important to note that even if no one runs into your fake item box, if you place it well you ALWAYS get some kind of value from it because the racers behind you have to take a suboptimal path just to avoid it. A banana peel has a similar effect, but obviously they have a slightly smaller hitbox and a lesser penalty for hitting them. It's such a well designed item because you always get some kind of value from it, even if usually the value is very small, which is fitting for a high placement item.

[@UDUC]

exactly this, doubly so if it's placed on a path where you'd normally take a shortcut (essentially preventing anyone from taking it unless they have invincibility, but if they have invincibility they're not an active threat to 1st)

[@dustymcwari4468]

I feel FIBs best use was to obstruct, rather than to deceive

[@skeepodoop5197]

The fake item box is an intresting item. In the beggining, it can be easy to fall for, but as you get better you learn how to diffrentiate it. But then, after you get good enough you realize that while it doesn't block shells, it has a larger hit box than shells and bananas, meaning it is harder to avoid if you don't see it coming.

[@cmyk8964]

CTGP-7 adds the Fake Item Box back, and makes it look exactly like a real item box from a closer distance than in Mario Kart Wii.

[@mk8-mkwil117]

Exactly which Nintendo failed to make it better to do that till they are right upon impact where it’s too late to avoid hitting it

[@DanielWeidner-li2yf]

I remember trying to hide fake item boxes inside normal ones

[@pokemonduck]

Perfectly placing fake item boxes inside real ones never got old :D

[@ArmourdreamOrNot]

Did you know: all (mainline) Mario kart games have either coins or fake item boxes, but not a single one of them has both

[@UDUC]

same thing regarding fake item boxes and snes rainbow road, they never have both

[@eessndjd]

There are coins in mkds mission mode

[@UDUC]

@eessndjd those are separate to me, since they don't act the same as the coins in other mario kart games

[@supermacman]

Ah yes, such creative plays as… putting it in a place where people can’t see when they turn a corner… you only listed one useful thing you can do with it, it doesn’t have much versatility at all bedsides that. The fact it’s a fake item box doesn’t really add onto that fact. You can replace the fake item box look for anything else and the main mechanic of it wouldn’t change and wouldn’t be confusing if changed. You’re describing using it as a regular item when it misses the whole point of the look being a FAKE item box.

[@UDUC]

i admit, it doesn't seem like a super creative thing at first, but there's a surprising number of blind areas on most courses (even flat ones, like mario circuit 3). it's on me for not including footage of that, so maybe i'll go back and make a compilation of those areas in the future. also, most items only have one or two use cases anyway, and as i mentioned in the video, fake item boxes are also extremely good at blocking shortcuts, much more so than a banana is. even something like lightning or a bullet bill doesn't have a ton of uses outside of what it's specifically made to do, and most of their complexity comes from how they interact with other items, other racers, and the course itself. i don't feel like the fake item box does any better or worse of a job at that. your final point of it essentially being interchangeable with anything else is valid, and i would've agreed with that yesterday. i had some conversations with some of my friends about this topic afterwards, though, which leads me to think that it's specifically a fake item box because real item boxes also don't interact with items. from nintendo's perspective, that was probably done to prevent them from being discovered early by random green shells, and that leads to their current design. i'm hoping my reply doesn't come across as condescending or mean-spirited, your counterpoints are valid and i want to make sure i address them in a well-meaning manner /gen

[@n1nj4l1nk]

The best place to put fib is slightly after an item box so the item box blocks the fib from view. It means the person that hit it will get an item by the time they start moving again so can also slow other people down.

[@paulamarina04]

they should bring back the double dash approach of making them look exactly like normal item boxes until you get close. you could make it even better by making your reaction time smaller the closer you are to 1st place

[@greninjamariokartpokemonfan]

It kind of does this in Wii, except without the smaller reaction time.

[@nbclover7880]

I've been saying for a while that fake item boxes would be a good addition to MK8 because people complain about getting so many coins in first. You'd get fewer coins, but without a higher chance of getting a blocker item, and players often in first are the players who will likely think of strategic placements for fake item boxes

[@shieldon530]

Item boxes are basically little gambling opportunities to ask the devs and chance to give you smth useful. Sometimes if u don’t need the extra advantage the answer you receive is just a “no” or “return to sender” and the item box basically expires/hard locks and becomes a big piece of junk that won’t spit out items, but since it’s semi tangible it can be useful if you’re creative

[@DanilegoPlays]

I fell for this ALL THE TIME in Mario Kart DS. I swear I fell for my own fake item box sometimes

[@ashleyblack7419]

Before watching the vid: my strat's always been to place the fakes as close to real item boxes as possible, preferably within some, made them much harder to spot and avoiding them sometimes made people miss out on actual items.

[@glitchydorime]

Really well written video that talks about everything, but should be more visually appealing (like showing footage of any differences, places where the fake box is mis-used and used in the correct/best way), some background music would also be nice, and a pop filter for the mic (your saliva and air conditioner can be heard lol) Hope you continue to do this type of content, really lovely!!❤

[@UDUC]

i hope to have better audio quality and actual game footage the next time i do this sort of thing! i didn't realize how bad the audio was until after i uploaded it but hey, you live and learn thank you for the kind words!

[@HS-mn6jc]

I’ve been playing MKWii both casually and competitively since 2008 and I cannot believe I’ve never really sat down and realized just how valuable the FIB is to the game balance. I’ve always argued in favor of Wii’s item system and this is yet another fact I can add to that arsenal. Making 1st place vulnerable without completely taking away all their options is such a tight balance and Wii hit it perfectly, in a way the coin in 8/8D did not. The only counterargument I can see here is that the red shells in Wii aren’t really all too great unless you’re really close behind 1st, so making 1st place more vulnerable to the red shells isn’t doing as much for balance as it could have. Either way, this video fundamentally changed my view on my least favorite item in this game and turned it into one of my favorites. Wild. (Nothing feels better than hitting a FIB snipe though I’ve always given it that haha)

[@UDUC]

i'm glad i rehabilitated the fake item box's image for you ^^ if you're still doing competitive, i hope it goes well for you in the future o:

[@mageferago]

Mario kart wii is simply the best version of the game, it's true

[@UDUC]

@mageferago TRUE! mkwii is the best mario kart hands down bar none

[@jumpingr0pechannel]

I’ve BEEN saying this. Good video. Also the fatter hitbox plus the fact shells can’t break it make it especially good at blocking cuts

[@FireMoose-d4o]

try to show more gameplay when like talking about the thing and what it does by showing what it does in game as you describe it that way viewers arent just looking at an image the whole vid

[@UDUC]

yeah, i probably should’ve done that. that’s on me for not stopping to get footage. i’ll make sure to record relevant stuff in the future when i can!

[@hamthenoob3022]

this video feels more like a school project than a youtube video

[@UDUC]

i mean video essays are called "essays" for a reason lol this was a passion project to be clear

[@pinkie723]

2077 when game design classes are mandatory like literature class and you're forced to do a project about the usefulness of an item that hasn't been around for decades before you were born:

[@NovaMSM]

Fake item box appreciation!

[@UDUC]

hell yeah!

[@fernoagent8581]

when i was younger i used to put those down in the real item box's so you couldn't see it was fake

[@FrankEShaw05]

I think people forget in a game like mario kart its ok to have bad items (bad as in not useful) in the game in order to balance the meta. The existence of the fib in mkwii encourages first place to be more aggressive by placing traps instead of being able to hold defensive items behind you the whole game and keep another defensive item in reserve, which makes front running a lot more tense and risky as you are not guaranteed to get a defensive item so you have to take a few risks. Mk8d on the other hand is a lot more defensive in first place as the double items slots and lack of a fib mean you are basically guaranteed some defensive item and even if you get a coin (closest thing to a fib) while you dont get any defence you only increase your own max speed, making the meta less about engaging with other players and more about driving the track which i personally find less fun.

[@waiyon1951]

Huh so thats why i thought fake box can block shells after 64. I never knew they can’t in wii etc

[@greninjamariokartpokemonfan]

​@@waiyon1951They also can't be used for defense in Double Dash or DS.

[@apayauq]

these can be placed directly on top of or slightly behind an item box, making that item box unavailable except if you take the hit! they can also be tricky to see there

[@some_goomba]

I did think that this item didn't work as well as one would've hoped before, even if it became a staple of the series, but I love the positive light that you've shone on it! I now have a new appreciation for the Fake Item Box! :D

[@The_Epicness9000]

I just like the Fake Item Box.

[@UDUC]

that makes two of us

[@joshslater2426]

It makes three.

[@UDUC]

our numbers continue to grow

[@THEEJONESY]

i love the fake item box, PLS BRING IT BACK

[@Engreth564]

This was in the MKDS days, but it used to look very similar to regular item boxes, and it also had a nice little skill you could learn with it. Something I did as a kid that my friends hated me so much for, was I'd hang onto my fake item boxes and drop them right on top of one of the central real item boxes. They blend in super well, and if you did it right, it was nearly impossible to see the fake mystery box inside the real one.

[@TheUnscathedFairy]

Fake item box > Coin item

[@Ereaserguy]

i always placed fake item boxes behind normal item boxes

[@nucg5040]

honestly, respect for not only having sources on this, but like actually numbering them

[@UDUC]

i watched hbomberguy's plagiarism video recently and decided to make absolutely sure i cite my sources /srs

[@Azel_C]

It should do what it does in beach buggy racing two and take up your item slots, and it could just temporarily hide your items instead of stealing them

[@ObsoIeteQuality]

I wouldn't have minded the fake item box in Mario Kart Wii if placing 2nd in an online race didn't deduct over 70 VR when 1st gives me only +7.

[@UDUC]

idk what was up with vr in mkwii it was crazy

[@eksmad]

The DS fake item box was evil

[@djangel3108]

I don’t remember seeing it much but the fake item box is one of my favourite items since the whole concept of traps and creatures that mimic loot to lure people in ha salways been cool to me. I also see a lot of people pointing out how MKWii nerfed it too the ground, I honestly want to see this come back with the MKWii nerf reverted so it looks like an Item box but with an upside-down question mark, only getting a red tint when your close! I'd also like to propose a uniqe BUFF to it, so that if you pick up an item box that would give you nothing due to your inventory being full (or a double one only giving you 1 item due tk having 1 in your inventory already), BUT you have a fake item box in stock, the fake Item box places itself in place of the item box you just ran through, so people who aren't really close to you won't notice, maybe even have a doubled version or have the fake item box be able to disguise as a double item box to trip people up even more!

[@Wingcapman]

There are a few key elements with the Fake Item Box that are missed in this video, specifically the way how they work in Mario Kart 64. The damage you receive from touching a Fake Item Box in that game makes you blow up as if you hit hazards like a car from Toad's Turnpike or a player-transformed bomb. The other key element that I wish they brought back was actually putting Fake Item Boxes in mid-air. This was a thing in Mario Kart 64 because it was programmed to make the item snap to the floor if you drop it in mid-air, while if there's no floor right underneath then it actually floats in place where you dropped it, causing a mid-air trap. While this tactic would make the player in first stronger (if it was implemented in - for example - Mario Kart Wii), other players could place it there as well, hoping that if the players behind the one who wasn't first place actually notice the player dropping there, could surprise the frontrunner if the item was placed perfectly (because they didn't know anyone placed it there). In Mario Kart: Double Dash!! however, it's very, VERY punishing to get hit in mid-air, you just drop like instantly if this was possible... 😂

[@globbo2225]

Feels like a fake item box is a red shell to the banana’s green shell

[@EyyEyeNerd]

When I was younger playing Mario kart Wii, I would always convince my opponent that we should play team races, and then make sure I'm blue so my fake item boxes looked closer to the real thing

[@tychozzyx9439]

It's also probably a little balanced to the friend who doesn't own the game. Even in N64, it was pretty easy to get familiar with the item placement and know when one box was trapped...unless you only played the game with your friend who owned it. It's immensely unfun to get hit out of nowhere and that's compounded by not knowing the track as well as the one winning already anyway. May as well give the newbie the signaling that the experienced player had anyway

[@jfb-]

i would always place it on top of a real item box

[@meifray]

maybe it should block one shell and auto-drop when you get item box

[@PlushPilla]

The only old Fake Item Box that feels the closest to the modern ones and being good in what it says, in my opinion, is the MKDS one. Because the bottom screen is one of the most essencial tools you have for defensive gameplay. First, the Fake Item Box looks like the real one in the top screen but the bottom one is marked red. Second, you can get hit by the sides in this game if you turn around too much, even if you have an item to block shells. That gives you an incentive to place items more in the middle of the road or in the very corners, and Fake Item Boxes are great for being annoying to remove. So you can caught someone off-guard while trying to check the bottom screen, since that's where you can seen the other racer's items.

[@xLTxFire]

I think they just removed that redstone bug you mentioned from Minecraft.

[@UDUC]

my videos have great timing, it seems /s

[@hatsunemiku39-real]

I really liked this first half of the video but as soon as you started talking about the coin i just disagreed more and more- the coin plays a great role in balancing first place's frontrunning in mk8dx, especially with two items. in mk8dx, hiding a strong item behind a coin is a huge information play (along with protecting the hidden item from a ghost), and there are even some more minor optimizations to be had, like using a coin after getting hit to accelerate faster, or using it as you are getting blue shelled to recover to 9 coins (assuming you had 10) instantly. the coin also plays a valuable role in being the most pulled item in first, as it adds more depth to the decisions made when approaching an item set- whether you want to go wide for the double box and chain both, keep tight and chain a single, or just hold the line and not take any new items. also, i feel like you really underplayed the importance of coins themselves- during lap 1, frontrunning is all about the risk/reward of picking up extra coins along the way and keeping a good line to stay in first, and it also plays into the factor of chaining items when you consider that using the coin also helps get to 10 coins faster. of course, this really mostly applies to competitive mario kart 8 deluxe, and if you are just playing casually i can understand not liking it, but really, i believe that mk8dx's item balancing is the best this game has ever been in that regard, save for maybe the piranha plant/fireball (which each have unique and interesting traits, but in general there are alot of aggressive items in the midpack)

[@hatsunemiku39-real]

also of course its natural for the first place filler item to be less 'useful' than others- whoever is in first should be focusing on driving, taking shortcuts, checking for blue on minimap/anticipating shock etc, can you imagine what the game would be like if first place could place even more items, especially with that big of a hitbox? all im saying is theres a reason the fake was left out of the game (i can also imagine it was also an accessibility/colorblindness issue), like, i like the fake box and its place in previous mk games, but comparing it to the coin and then saying its better than the coin just feels silly.

[@UDUC]

that's a really interesting take, even if i don't think i agree with it in the end. i've also played competitive 8 deluxe, but the clan i was in wasn't particularly good, so maybe it's a difference in skill level speaking here o: while i can get behind recovering lost coins after getting hit (something i myself do during gameplay), i still maintain that to someone in 1st, holding a coin is preventing them from doing something else most of the race since, again, they have access to as many coins as they want (this is different in competitive, but in the formats i have experience with, you can ideally get assistance from your teammates to take care of competitors; i'm sure it's not that way in lounge, for example. i never got into lounge though, not really for me if that makes sense) i do like that you brought up access to information in reference to the coin, and i feel that i should probably talk about that at some point since it's an interesting topic to discuss. however, i don't really think it's exclusive to the coin, since any item in your first slot prevents opponents from seeing what item is in your second slot. this is important in 1st, of course, since your opponents may not know if you have a horn or a bomb or something else, but it's not because you have a coin, it's because you have two items, y'know? i really appreciate this comment /gen, it got me thinking more about the coin's role and my perspective on it. maybe i should revisit the coin item in the future o:

[@hatsunemiku39-real]

@@UDUC that is a true point in that when guarding an item, it could be any item, not just a coin! i guess i think that with 2 normal items, first would be too busted, but yah! also, yeah i mostly play lounge and specifically 2v2, where these sorts of situations come into play more but clan wars/6v6 is its own beast entirely, and i can understand it being less useful there! maybe in general, this game seems designed for single players, and so teams of 2 act similarly to base game design whereas teams of 6 will differ more? thats just an idea 😆

[@UDUC]

that's totally understandable, after all there's a reason things like the fake item box and coin exist; 1st is in position to win the game, so they need to be brought down a level lol i hope your future competitive matches go well btw! i'm not in competitive anymore but i know how nice it feels to do well there ^^

[@bloodakoos]

in mk64 the only difference is the upside down question mark

[@linkthehero8431]

I always just put it right behind a regular item box so my friends would go for an item and still hit it.

[@Magikarpador]

put fake item boxes like a foot behind the item box sets so it'll be hard to see behind the real items people are already aiming for

[@coreybananas]

At the start of the video I thought this was just cope but you're kinda right lmao, good video.

[@user-S853]

0:08 I would ALWAYS fall for them as a child. Learning tips to eventually be able to easily distinguish them felt so cool! I also couldn’t distinguish mushrooms and red shells at first since I never saw them at the same time, so I was never sure if I’d get sent forward or attack the kart in front.

[@UDUC]

sometimes, in the craze of a race, i still sometimes confuse mushrooms for red shells, and vise-versa. sometimes i wish they were more visually distinct, y'know?

[@Adriethyl]

I'm a fan of the DS version, sans the red icon on the touch screen (making it super easy to notice) With the resolution of the DS screens you might not notice in time that it has no question mark, I personally think the upside down mark on other titles make it really easy to notice. I don't think it'd work on Mk8 tracks though

[@frozenover_exe]

While I do love the points you brought up, one minor nitpick I have is that it would’ve been nice to at least name drop the two other pieces of unintentional tech you mentioned for people to look them up. While I’m very familiar with Minecraft’s quasi-connectivity (which fun fact, was actually patched out before being patched back in as an intended feature due to backlash), the Splatoon tech you mentioned went completely over my head and I have no way to look it up now

[@UDUC]

that's a good point, i should've mentioned them by name. the splatoon tech i'm referring to is substrafing, where by holding the sub weapon button (r) while swimming in ink, you can turn around much faster

[@Octo_of_the_QIA]

This channel is so cool! Loved the video :)

[@UDUC]

thank you so much!

[@FuelFire]

Am I the only one who thinks Nintendo should have made the FIB look like a real one so you can place it anywhere and people think it IS a REAL one if they dont know/remember real IB's locations.

[@UDUC]

funny thing is, when you get eliminated in mario kart ds' battle mode, you actually can go around placing real item boxes if there are other players competing (i.e. not cpus) it's a real item box and everything, it gives people who drive through them items like normal

[@CEOofAustralia]

The problem is that it would happen like 1 or 2 times and then no one will fall for it again

[@TheApoke]

4:56 what is the dplatoon glitch that became a feature? Squid rolling?

[@UDUC]

sub strafing! if you hold the sub weapon button (r) while swimming back and forth in a stretch of ink, you turn much faster than usual

[@sweeteyes7]

I wish they brought back fake item boxes in MK8DX

[@3_14pie]

I always try to leave them ontop or after a normal item box

[@the_banshee6708]

Next Mario Kart better get rid of the coin and bring the fib back.

[@andreworders7305]

Two items slots in 8 Deluxe sort of ruins the similar point of the coin item in 8 Wii U.

[@UDUC]

i don't think it does, since you can carry two items at a time in games like mario kart wii as well. dragging certain items behind your vehicle (like the fake item box, banana, green shell, etc.) removes it from the item slot, so you can get another item

[@marioisawesome8218]

when throwing it forward in some games, it will actually bounce off the ground once or twice before finally landing, as opposed to the banana.

[@UDUC]

its trajectory is most similar to a bob-omb because of the bouncing, as it so happens o:

[@Kmn483]

Item boxes are the green shell to Banana's red shell. Less likely to hit & more effective when it does.

[@chloedelaware2922]

finally. someone said it

[@williamfrieden1]

Nice video, interesting for sure with the fake item box, makes total sense, anyways, keep it up!

[@OmaruuDevOfficial]

Also if you're really good at the game you can actually throw the item box at a player from ahead And knock them out

[@flutteringlife]

substrafe mention

[@mc3941]

Satisfying tech right there

[@doraemon402]

What do stats say about how effective it is? Because that's the only way of judging how well desgned it is. It's effectiveness varies according to your level of play. If you spend most time leading, it's useless because it doesn't defend you and you don't need it as an attack.

[@UDUC]

that's part of the point, it's supposed to be an item that can't defend against red shells. plus, unlike the coin, which has very little depth to it, the fake item box can still be used in interesting ways at every level of play, and is an essential item for blocking shortcuts since it has a large hitbox and can't simply be removed with a shell thrown at it

[@CEOofAustralia]

Just. Watch. The. Video.

[@behindthepickle]

If you wanna reduce the saliva clicking in the future, I’ve found it helpful to greatly reduce my mic sensitivity while recording, and then boost the volume in post. And of course, if you don’t have a pop filter, you should probably get a pop filter.

[@UDUC]

i diy'd a pop filter a couple days ago, and it's been helping a little bit with unrelated stuff. i'll try the lower mic sensitivity though! thank you for the advice! /gen

[@redstonewarrior0152]

My man. You need a pop filter on that microphone. Your saliva is super distracting from what is otherwise an amazing video.

[@UDUC]

i'm sorry ;; i didn't realize it was that bad until it was too late, i'll do better in the future

[@Henrix1998]

So fake item box would act exactly same even if it didint look like a fake item box

[@jimbrenneman2040]

Fake boxes were peak in DS. They were the correct color, but they didn't rotate

[@VGF80]

Fun fact: fake item boxes and coins (as items, not in mission or battle modes) are never in the same mainline game together (I dunno about tour but regardless that game is a spin-off in my eyes). If a given game has a fake item box, then you can't pick up coins in the races in that game, and vice versa. This also means it's been 16 years since we've seen the fake item box in a mainline mario kart game.

[@UDUC]

regardless of opinions on tour (i consider it mainline), this still holds true because the fake item box isn't in tour either which is weird, you'd think they'd bring it back for that game, it has a ton of items

[@proudzerzurancitizen]

spanish item box stronger than monke and weaker than capitalism oke

[@UDUC]

it took me a moment to figure out what you were saying lol

[@eiscreme3116]

Like before watching this I keep drinving into these things

[@tophatgeo]

really good and thorough analysis! what was the minecraft and splatoon bugs-turned-features that you mentioned? Only guess I have for redstone was something related to tick speed.

[@UDUC]

for minecraft: quasi-connectivity, where redstone components will sometimes get powered despite not being physically connected for splatoon: substrafing, you can hold the sub weapon button (r) while swimming back and forth and it'll let you turn around much faster, letting you change direction much easier

[@pokemonduck]

I would rather have a fake item box than a coin... one of the most useless and frustrating items in the game for sure

[@yoshihammerbro435]

All i know is i like the DS fake item box the best

[@varietychan]

n64 fake item boxes are much better, they can block items, literally look like real item boxes (with the question mark upside down) and launch you up. I wish these versions would be kept

[@UndrcoverCactus]

I agree that the fib is a pretty well designed item balance wise as an alternative to the banana, but I'd have to disagree that calling it a "fake item box" is a good aspect of that design. It should have either actually looked similar to real item boxes so that deception can be a real part of the item's strategy, or it should have just been some other type of object that did the same thing.

[@the3dluxe53]

Personally I just don’t like them in Wii. I feel like they made them a little too obvious. DS was when the fake item box was at its peak.

[@mk8-mkwil117]

I always think the fake item box was just like a stronger shell just with a larger hit box to me though all though the stun time is slightly longer than a shell but barely noticeable.

[@moth_farmer]

Mega mushroom and ice flower/or fake item box for 8 deluxe, please!

[@justcallmexen]

This is an interesting video, but I do think that... it could be improved on. I want to do video essays myself and am maybe overplanning my scripts, but here I don't see enough establishing context to the subject. What all games was the fake item box in and how did they behave? There are plenty of posts in the comments section providing information about how item boxes differ from game to game but even with that I don't know for sure exactly how many of the Mariokart games even have the item in the first place, or which ones attempt to disguise themselves as item boxes better. This is just a minor thing, but I do think it hurts the video in a way.

[@UDUC]

yeah, this is something i should've done in this video. in the future, i'll be sure to have more context like that available. this was my first video essay, so you live and learn i guess o:

[@binarycat1237]

i didn't think the item chance was that much less... noone traps in 8dx..

[@adicsbtw]

wait what unintended movement mechanic is there in splatoon? I haven't played since the original, so I'm super out of the loop lol

[@UDUC]

it's called substrafing! if you hold down the sub weapon button (r) and swim back and forth in a stretch of ink, you end up changing directions much faster o: afaik in splatoon 1 there are certain sub weapons that can't do this, which is because it was initially unintended, but then nintendo actually made it a real mechanic in splatoon 2 by making sure every sub weapon could do it

[@TCperry]

I never really felt I disliked the fake item box neither have I liked it either. I can see some advantages to it though now. Jesus loves you!

[@meifray]

I think it should auto-drop when collect real item box and block shell from behind

[@lahuman3053]

powerpoint?

[@UDUC]

saves me the editing lol

[@MusTheFan]

The design of the fake item box is that it is bad.

[@UDUC]

it's bad if you think of it as a defensive item, but it's great if you think of it as an item that prevents people from taking ideal paths

[@MusTheFan]

It's worse at that role than it's peers. the design of it should be that it's bad as it's meant to be schlock which wastes an item box for first place so that they cannot further their lead, but it fails at this as 1. You can still screw someone over with it as they get close or enter a narrow road, and 2. Even in first it's weighted far below good items like peels and shells, so it's influence is rarely felt. The coin does a better job at stopping runaways as it's both really unhelpful and very highly weighted for players near the front, which means more often than not they will have to rely on driving to further their lead rather than items.

[@UDUC]

i don't agree. the coin lacking a lot of utility doesn't make the game more fair, it just makes you feel helpless in 1st. meanwhile, the fake item box being able to affect the people behind you means you can still fight back while in 1st. you're still vulnerable, but you aren't a sitting duck with a fake item box, whereas you are with a coin. the coin appearing more often just means there's no mystery to what you're going to get from an item box, since even if you get something other than a coin in your first item slot, it's still extremely likely that you'll get a coin in your second item slot anyway. the fake item box could appear at any time, and that's a mind game 1st needs to play into in order to stay ahead. it having the chance that it does means its influence is felt all the time, because you're taking a gamble every time you hit an item box. 20% doesn't sound like a lot, but that's every fifth item set. and, like, what do you mean the coin forces 1st to rely more on driving? no, it doesn't. red shells don't care how good you're driving in mario kart 8, if they're going to hit you, they're going to hit you regardless. plus, the fact that the only way to guarantee protection in 1st in mario kart 8 is to already have a coin, that means it quite literally forces you to rely on an item to get a different defensive item. the fake item box allows for skill expression, which includes driving. the coin simply doesn't, because the skill ceiling for the coin is far lower than that of the fake item box.

[@MusTheFan]

@@UDUC the red shells also don't care about your fake item box. I don't think the coin does make you helpless, I think it makes getting into first a more deliberate maneuver due to its high weight in first encouraging item smuggling. This again emphasises good driving as you want to avoid using items to get to first, and instead keep them while moving up places so that you can exploit a well earnt advantage later in the race. I think the coin does a really good job shifting the probability of winning away from being luck based due to poor item rolls and further towards being skill based as it promotes more careful item management and better driving (not that I think the lever should ever be fully pushed in either direction, it wouldn't be mario kart without a little tomfoolery)

[@Marshall.R]

To give the coins in Mario Kart 8 Deluxe a bit more credit, the game is already generally balanced in a way where frontrunning is definitely dominant on most tracks but not overpowered by any means. If first place were to acquire fake item boxes instead of coins I think it would likely mess up with this balance, in part because the tracks have more of an emphasis on advanced no item shortcuts and driving techniques rather than advanced shortcuts with Mushrooms like in Mario Kart Wii, meaning a well placed fake item box could hinder significantly more racers than in other games. And that's not to mention the impact of 200cc, where even a poorly placed fake item box could become very difficult to avoid almost to the point of feeling unfair, simply due to how quickly racers have to process everything going on around them. I agree with your point that the fake item box is a very well designed item, but I also think the coins are a necessary evil of sorts that keep the item system of Mario Kart 8 Deluxe properly balanced.

[@UDUC]

this is a pretty good take, but i also want to bring up invincibility items as a counterpoint. a lot of players further back will most likely be in an invincibility item of some kind (usually a star, but bullets and boos as well), and those can ignore the fake item box entirely combined with the distance-based items in that game, i feel that while fake item boxes could become an issue, they wouldn't be unrecoverable (and honestly, with how many red shells 2nd can pull, i think it might be a bit fair to knock them down a peg in terms of what that specific placement can do, since if they're close enough to pelt 1st with reds, they would have to deal with fake item boxes without invincibility)

[@greninjamariokartpokemonfan]

I highly doubt you'll do a video on the Chain Chomp, Blooper, or any of the items introduced in Wii (Mega Mushroom, POW Block, and Thunder Cloud). The Chain Chomp is far less helpful than the Bullet Bill, hence why it only appears in Double Dash and has been replaced by the Bullet Bill as of DS. This is the only one of the five aforementioned items I like, as I strongly dislike the other four. The first of the items I strongly dislike is the Blooper, an item that I believe should be removed from all future installments because it is one of the worst items Nintendo has ever added to the series. First off, in some games like Wii, where it may just be the most useless thing ever, it barely does anything at all, and even in games where it covers up more of the screen, there is so much going against the item. In every game the Blooper appears in, there are tracks with boost panels, and by just using one of them, that ink is just gone. Even on tracks with water, there's no way that ink is staying on your screen for more than a second. The main issue I have with the Blooper is that it disproportionately affects new players while hardly doing anything at all to experienced players. It feels so anti-Mario Kart in design when you look at items like the Lightning and Bullet Bill, items that are very clearly designed to give even the worst players a fighting chance, but the Blooper completely spits on that design philosophy. It doesn't even feel satisfying to use, especially considering that in Wii, you can get this item as low as 9th place, a position that is near the back of the pack. Finally, the items I despise the most of any Mario Kart item: the items introduced in Wii, aka the Mega Mushroom, POW Block, and Thunder Cloud. If not counting the Mega Mushroom in Tour, then I'm glad none of the Wii items have returned in any future installments. The Mega Mushroom is literally a worse Star, and I would rather have the Star or Bullet Bill for invincibility because they can protect you from every item, and you don't lose the form when struck by Lightning. The POW Block is literally a worse Lightning, appears far too often in races, can be completely avoided if you're airborne, making it borderline useless because you won't be on the ground most of the time in Wii, and I would rather use a Lightning to attack other racers because it's far superior. Finally, the Thunder Cloud is not only the worst Mario Kart item ever created, but it's also one of Nintendo's worst ideas ever. This item literally harms the user unless they can pass it off to another racer, enter a cannon, or get a Star.

[@UDUC]

i’ve actually been considering making a video on some of these items (a negative one about the blooper and more positive ones about the wii items); i don’t know how many of them i’ll actually go through with but i think if nothing else i’ll have interesting commentary on how mario kart as a series designs items

[@greninjamariokartpokemonfan]

​@@UDUCAlso, in Mario Kart 64, the Fake Item Box is significantly better than in all of its later appearances. Firstly, its Mario Kart 64 iteration is actually convincing, as you can barely tell it isn't the real thing in this game. Secondly, in addition to being able to defend against items (albeit at the cost of only being able to be dropped backwards), it can float in mid-air. Also, it blasts unsuspecting players upward similar to that of a Cataquack or a Bob-omb (before Mario Kart 7). You also forgot to mention that in DS, the Fake Item Box has a new set of differences from real Item Boxes: it lacks a question mark entirely and doesn't rotate. This new set of differences is a dead giveaway that it's a fake. The bottom screen makes the item even less useful, as it clearly marks the item red on the map. I mean, it's already dead obvious by now what ones are the Fake Item Boxes, but sure, let's add one more way to tell.

[@CEOofAustralia]

​@@greninjamariokartpokemonfan hating the blooper but liking 64 fake item box is contradictory. Blooper is "anti-mario kart design" because it only harms new players, but the fake item box in 64 only harms new players too, because if you are good you will notice that the item box is fake because the items are in specific spots, and it's very rare to drop the FIB exactly where the other boxes are. Y'all should stop using Silok Hawk's terrible argument

[@greninjamariokartpokemonfan]

@@CEOofAustralia Yeah, but there's a difference: the Fake Item Box, especially in 64, does so much more than the Blooper will ever be able to do. Unlike in later installments, the Fake Item Box can be used defensively and even be placed in midair to catch unsuspecting players off guard. Even in all of its later appearances, where it's dead obvious it's fake and no longer defends against items or floats in midair, it's still better than the Blooper. If I were to rework the Fake Item Box, I would make it so that it infects a random Item Box in the nearest item set. That way, it will always be within a group of Item Boxes and fool even the most experienced players. Meanwhile, the Blooper is a minor inconvenience at best and is just there to ruin the glorious footage. It barely helps the user at all, especially considering you get it in middle to back of the pack positions.

[@CEOofAustralia]

​​@@greninjamariokartpokemonfan the only thing I like about the blooper is when you end up hitting traps because of it. It really sucks when you get it but I don't want it removed. The only thing I could think about is making it appear not when someone uses it, but randomly after some amount of time. Maybe something like Every 30 secs it has a 20% chance of appearing and it covers everyone's screen and lowers traction a bit