Behind the Insurrections - Mussolini's March on Rome: The First Fascist | BEHIND THE BASTARDS

[@crossroadswanderer]

I think this episode raised more questions than it answered for me, though that's not a bad thing. It was a really information-dense episode and my brain probably needs a bit of time to let it percolate. I also have quite a bit of backlog to go through still on this podcast, so maybe some of these questions are answered elsewhere. Something that struck me is that the first fascist movements seem to have largely been started and run by people who were facing hardship and wanted change to address that. There's still some of that in current fascist movements, but as you point out, they're a lot more popular with members of the middle class who feel anxious about losing their economic stability. There also seems to be a lot of encouragement from some of the wealthier and more comfortable members of society. People like Dennis Prager, Donald Trump, and Elon Musk. And of course, while they're not obscenely wealthy as a whole, there are the police, who are so sheltered from consequences and even from the danger you might expect from their job (eg. Uvalde) that it's hard to see what they have to feel anxious about. There's also the pattern of governments favoring the right wing - even the extremist edge - which you also talk about here. Looking at the CIA's past, they were specifically proping up fascist dictators. I'm a couple of years younger than Robert, so I didn't live through the period, but from my limited knowledge of history, it feels like this country was slowly building toward fascism (at home - we were definitely engaging with fascism abroad) throughout the period after WWII. That was the most prosperous time - probably in the whole history of the US - for the middle class, but they still seemingly felt insecure in what they had. Racism probably played a big role, but that period was prosperous enough that we could have made amends for our racist past and worked to right the economic injustice and still had a high standard of living for everyone. Propaganda almost certainly plays a role, but it's harder to convince a person of an extreme ideology when they're comfortable, and middle class americans had a lot of reason to be comfortable. Why did people of the time want so badly to prevent black americans and other racial minorities from getting a piece of the pie when there was more than enough to go around? Was it economic anxiety, racism, propaganda, something else? Are there stable conditions that promote fascism as well as unstable conditions do? It feels like fascism started as a selfish and misguided grassroots movement, but now there's a lot of astroturfing from the rich, especially through PACs and thinktanks. Why do some of the wealthy favor it over old favorites like monarchy and regular deregulated capitalism? It's hard for me to understand the appeal for them even when I think in terms of pure amoral profit motive. Fascism is not stable. It incites conflict and eats itself. What do the wealthy - whose wealth becomes meaningless in the absence of stability - have to gain?

[@justjukka]

“I wanna be on the side of the government, but the government ain't on the side of me.” 💯

[@greghodges2116]

So the old saying is true: the only thing that bad people need to succeed is that good people do nothing

[@kevinKronnack]

I liked having Prop on, his take was refreshing next to Robert's

[@thisistherevolt]

Listening to this in summer of 2024 is interesting to say the least.

[@blakestation2632]

Right lol, same

[@portmantologist]

I love how it doesn't seem to have occurred to either of you that Andrea might not be a girl's name in Italian. Andrea is primarily a masculine name in Italy, as well as many other places.

[@petebondurant58]

I think that a great many things don’t occur to these people.

[@rodneysmith873]

Who cares

[@ilumidonkygames9769]

My friend has a male cousin named “Andrea” & his Italian family pronounces it like “On-drey-uh,” not “Ann-dree-uh.”

[@marcogypaetus9607]

OH FUCK YES

[@TheDarthbinky]

In some countries, "Andrea" is a masculine name. Italy is one of those countries.

[@firefox5926]

1:14:12 well the other part of it is at the time they only had an example of comminisum in russia .. but no exisisting fasist state to point at and say see its worse or just as bad or better than that where as we do

[@briandavitmusic9421]

1:18:44 excuse your attire? BRO I TALKED TO YOU IN MILAN!!!!!

[@joshv.1490]

Bummed by prop bringing up the horseshoe theory BS. Glad that Robert responded to it. A far left movement ideologically doesn't stop being egalitarian and something else to assume the characteristics of an authoritarian leader that is associated with that ideology. People and a movement are separate things. That said, it's still hard to imagine the facilitation of an egalitarian system without a dictator setting it in motion as well as ensuring the people are trained and prepared to exercise governing agency.

[@SgtKaneGunlock]

yeah i got really bummed out when peeky blinders said it unironically

[@crimsontanki]

The whole idea that the USSR was authoritarian that Robert pushed is silly too, was it perfect under Stalin, of course not, the entire planet was at war , on the cusp of war, or recovering from war during a large portion of his leadership, and I'm not saying the gov under him was great at that time either, but it was nothing like the west teaches either,

[@joshv.1490]

@grnmjolnir appreciate the response. I dunno if I'd chalk it up as brainworms as much as the challenge that nuanced evaluation poses in an environment so condensed with misinformation. There's a lot we can learn from history, but the context is essential as well, and we also can't learn everything we need from looking backwards. Again, appreciate the discourse and the help to the algorithm!

[@christophereichten9005]

Why does it make you so mad. Your answer will speak volumes to what your motivations are? What are your motivations?

[@joshv.1490]

@@christophereichten9005 I'll assume this is directed at my initial post. I said disappointed, I wasn't mad and didn't respond with anger. I was disappointed for the reason I stated, and I think Robert did a pretty good job of identifying horseshoe theory and raising concern around its legitimacy. It isn't a very nuanced take and it's rampantly used to make a lot of bad arguments in spaces where understanding of political theory and/or history is lacking.

[@What-lt3lj]

Wait, Prop is Propaganda? As in the artist behind the genuis that is the song 2:30? Holy hell, yall. This dude is an incredible rapper. I'd say he's one of the best Christian rappers out there, but that doesn't do him enough justice

[@justinwatson1510]

You should check out It's Called Leninism's series on Stalin.

[@ct2557]

Even with ads deleted, the products and services talk derails the show every time.

[@tai31415]

Here after the 2024 election. Now we get to find out how far republicans are willing to go.

[@bigatomicsloth3369]

I can't stand listening to prop talk about serious shit, sorry.

[@christophereichten9005]

I think Josh should back off his arrogance. He eats his own.