Being Openly Gay | US vs The Netherlands | American in the Netherlands

[@ETools.]

Most Dutchies don't care at all, personality is far more important.

[@thehellhound8582]

Most of us are either supportive or have a "not in my backyard" policy. Like as long as you're not an asshole about it (think a vegan or karen on a diet constantly exclaiming that their way is so much better) we really don't care what adults do with their life. We are a very direct people, we really don't mind chewing someone out for annoying behavior and one of the quickest ways to get flak here is virtue signalling.

[@ETools.]

@@thehellhound8582 I'm aware dude, Dutchie myself. XD

[@thehellhound8582]

@@ETools. Aanvullende informatie

[@casperk7310]

I think that it's just like if u act like a human being you get treated as. Human being. And if you act like an asshole you get treated like an asshole

[@JinxPropaganda]

That’s so true but sadly there are also some people against it :(

[@phinkgirly]

You: I am gay. Dutch people: Oh oke, but what are you gonna do friday night? 😂

[@Deauxtje]

yup, nailed it

[@ladyannet1]

You are so right, that is exactly the reaction our daughter got when se came out. Dutch people in general really don’t care.

[@phinkgirly]

@@ladyannet1 We care ofcourse but most of us are used to it, so okay, you are gay. We got it. let us move in with our life and do something fun kind of attitude 😂👏🏻

[@Jennyka1995]

ahah thats exactly how i would react :D (im from germany )

[@phinkgirly]

@@redfishswimming Not always for so far I know... But a lot of them I heard they can accept... I can't speak for them 😉😬🙈

[@willemvanoranje1533]

"I kind of sometimes forget that I'm gay" is exactly what we're (most people) trying to achieve I'd say and I'm glad you (sometimes) feel that way.

[@amypearson2369]

yooooo willie!!

[@willemvanoranje1533]

@@amypearson2369 yooooo amy!!

[@smeetsnoud1]

Fun fact: de favoriete hartige snack van Willem van Oranje was een frikandelbroodje!

[@ThomasRiver69]

when does she say that?

[@mr.2083]

@@ThomasRiver69 around 11:50

[@MrJuzam]

As a 47-year-old Dutch man I can honestly say that I don't give a flip about what you like in a partner, as long as it is consensual. Be who you are and love who you want, as long as the object of your love feels the same way, go for it. Man, woman, undecided genderwise, whatever floats your boat. I treat it the same way I treat religion, you do you, but don't try to convince me of something I don't want. On the point of looking gay... What is that supposed to mean? It's about the stupidest thing I've ever heared. Apearance is no way an indicator as to how you feel on the inside.

[@opperbuil]

Most gay people I met didn't look stereotypically gay. Working in the same building as an LGBTQ collective, I've seen quite a bunch of LGBTQ people over the past years.

[@XLHeavyD999]

Well said.

[@black4pienus]

I think most Dutch people don't give a F. Why make a big deal out of sexual orientation. (shrugs).

[@evermunt]

Totally agree. "You do you, but don't try to convince me of something I don't want." Is something almost all Dutch share I guess. On all sides of the political spectrum.

[@rutgerdemuelenaere2363]

The only difference between your comment and my point of view is a 7-year age difference, so chalk up a big +1

[@ifer1280]

About the hetronormative thing: most of my Dutch LGBTQ friends simply interpret the question as intended, so if someone asks about your boyfriend you just tell them about your girlfriend as if they asked a gender neutral question. It may not be stereotypical Dutch directness, but it seems to be effective at keeping the conversation going without steering the conversation topic, while the other picks up the proper pronouns.

[@jeroenvanzwam6991]

I find it increasingly difficult to ask partner related questions., as you cant really see if someone is gay, I think most languages are inadequate, im missing a good pronoun that does not assume gender and at the same time is not offending.

[@bararobberbaron859]

@@jeroenvanzwam6991 I usually just go with 'did you come alone or with your partner? And usually in the response you will get 'yeah he/she's here' or 'Nah, he/she had to work late'. It's not like you're trying to trip them up, you just leave the door open for them to fill in the blank. And grammatically speaking, if it's about 1 person, a correct sentence requires a he/she. "Hoe oud is jouw partner?" "oh zij word 29 volgende maand". There is also something to be said for talking about someone that's not present, so the conversation shouldn't be on their partner long anyway, or at all if you don't want it.

[@NiDeCo]

Pretty much this, yeah. Seeing as the (vast?) majority of people are heterosexual, assuming a partner is of the opposite sex is just the "I have to pick one and that one's more likely" default. If I meet someone and ask that question, I expect to just get corrected in case the partner is of the same sex (which I just take as a cue to mentally add a checkmark to the "is interested in the same sex" box), but like @Ifer said, not per se in a conversation breaking way. I do the same if someone asks me the question: "Didn't X bring her boyfriend to the party?" "No, her girlfriend needed to work late today" (with _maybe_ a bit of extra stress on the "GIRLfriend", just to be sure the other person gets the implication, especially in a more noisy situation) This has happened to me before with a friend that was bisexual and the person asking didn't know she had a new partner.

[@jh110695]

@@jeroenvanzwam6991 I’m a gay guy and people ask me about my girlfriend all the time. I don’t care at all, straight people are simply in the majority and therefore the norm, and that’s fine. I just say “I have a boyfriend, actually” and then answer the question anyway. I honestly prefer this to people tiptoeing around the subject and awkwardly struggling to find the right word to use (which doesn’t exist, except the overly formal ‘partner’). All I care about is that people are accepting and have the right intentions, a little mishap is no problem.

[@engeltjebaleno]

i do asume one has a partner of the other sex. Same why i asume someone comes with own transportation. It's just the most obvious assumption,

[@ApemanMonkey]

My Dutch dad is so progressive he was disappointed I didn't turn out to be gay.

[@mikesmith-rp1mb]

🤣🤣🤣

[@rj6782]

Hahaha my dad always told me, if i could do it all over again i would date a nice guy, just to have something different.

[@Iflie]

@@rj6782 Haha that reminds me of all the dutch people who want to date an Indo person and even in general eat something exotic. They think dutch and white is boring. Being a mixed person that sort of positive reactions to me looking different certainly helped.

[@joalexsg9741]

Hilarious 😂❤

[@terry4137]

That’s appalling!

[@katjamming]

I grew up in the Netherlands and I was a toddler when the first gay marriage happened in 2001. My mom told me I watched the broadcast of the wedding and I liked the dresses the lesbian couple were wearing SO MUCH, that I told my teacher the next day that I wanted to be a lesbian when I grew up. Now I have a girlfriend and we're so happy together ☺️

[@suus-arido393]

A coming-out story... Me: mom I think I'm bi Mom: that's nice, do you need anything from the store? THE END

[@MrJimheeren]

Lekker toch

[@chriswielink6331]

I really worked myself up with nerves and then it turned out to be the least big deal ever. XD a mix of both relief and disappointment hit me.

[@maxcapone55]

@@chriswielink6331 I find your word choice excellent, the disappointment I presume would be with yourself?

[@chriswielink6331]

@@maxcapone55 Thanks! Kinda, on the disappointment remark. No feelings of resentment, but kinda a "well shit, I spent all this time worrying and blowing this up in my head for it to just be treated like as casual a remark as saying what kind of food I like... hell I think we've had more 'heated' arguments on THAT subject." Ultimately though I'm super happy with how everyone in my life took it. I'd rather not have being bi be my primary defining characteristic XD

[@maxcapone55]

@@chriswielink6331 yeah, that's what i was thinking it meant hehe

[@familiewensink9705]

Our daughter came out about 7 years ago when she was like 15 or 16 yo. She thought she had to explain it to us, but we had seen it coming for a while. It totally suited her😊. She is now in a relationship with a very nice girl with long dark hair and eyebrows who’s name is Eva that lives in Utrecht😜. You should meet them, you’ll like them. I hope you and they will continue to meet supportive people so you can live the lives you choose and deserve!

[@dutchpantyman]

Is this the same Eva?

[@J.S.R.Berendsen]

@@dutchpantyman no, because her name isnt Eva, but Ava

[@corneliusantonius3108]

Sounds like you gained a gem of a girl 👍👌

[@familiewensink9705]

No, they’re not the same, however they resemble each other. I do feel privileged having two beautiful girls now!

[@Linalinalane]

@@familiewensink9705 awh, so wholesome

[@P0nyl0ve]

About the comments: the US also has more of a 'comment culture' I believe, in the Netherlands it is really not done to talk to other people you don't know on the street, not even for a compliment.

[@bramvanduijn8086]

Especially about such a personal matter. In the Netherlands giving a random compliment on clothing or hairstyle is not unheard of, though I think less common than in the USA.

[@voornaam3191]

So true, the Dutch are silent, polite, correct and extremely well behaved, scholars, 17 million Nobel Prize Winners, almost enlightened. You'd wonder why we accept tourists to be rude, impolite, incorrect, downright stupid and blisfully unaware of yoga wisdom. The Netherlands needs imperfect people, to balance the dualism. Thank you for your sarcasm. Very funny.

[@RobbertMichel]

Just something to ponder... I notice that in English, the term partner is “differently” gender neutral than it is in Dutch. In NL we happily use it regardless of gender, and it’s also quite common to use for both hetero and gay people for their spouse, or their boy/girlfriend, if the relationship has been more serious and they moved in together. In the US though, partner seems to be exclusively for same sex significant others, or business partners.

[@randar1969]

My father when i was a young teen brought me to the zoo. In there he said see that penquin couple over there they are both males. Nature decide what you fall in love with not your thoughts , You should never judge people over it. I agreed, and that was that, never gave it a second thought . I just accept it as a fact of life.

[@IvoTichelaar]

The famous gay penguin couple! They educated many school classes effectively.

[@tesla1961]

ridiculous .

[@IvoTichelaar]

@@tesla1961 God's creation!

[@tesla1961]

@@IvoTichelaar "So God created man in his own image; in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them. God blessed them and said to them [male and female]

[@tesla1961]

@@IvoTichelaar penguin is no human.

[@mendelity]

Here in The Netherlands, we just don't care that much... It maybe sound a bit weird, but in public we don't really care... The Dutch usually are travelling for groceries, to work or home... In The Netherlands there is a time and a place for everything, and the streets are for travelling/sightseeing. (Bi Dutch guy)

[@karlijnguijt-kusters8549]

I'm from the Netherlands and the only thing I wish for my children is that they will find a loving and caring partner. What gender doesn't matter. If the partner is repecting and loving my child and they are happy together ....that's importend!

[@SDeww]

that is because you are a woman, and dont have to worry about your family name being pushed on in time!, as a man i need a son that makes boys!, so our family name does not die out!, and i will be the one generation in 3000 years that failed.... dont forget men have the duty/responsibility for their family name, woman give that up when they get married!, and your family name has been alive since the dawn of time!..1 weak generation and it can all be destroyed lost in time!.

[@karlijnguijt-kusters8549]

@@SDeww My husband thinks the same way about this. I think it''s so oldfashion to think that when your child is gay, that you can not become a grandparent and the familie name will not continue. But I know that in other countries the situation is different then in the Netherlands. Oh and we have 2 boy's that are the only ones to continue the familiename. All the other cousins got girls....

[@lienbijs1205]

Why do you think that they need a partner? Many people live without partner by choice and are fully happy.

[@karlijnguijt-kusters8549]

@@lienbijs1205 If that's there choice that's fine. My wish is that my children are happy.

[@donder91]

@@SDeww wut? Seriously who cares about the family name... I have my mom's last name and my dad was perfectly fine with that. Honestly if my future partner has a nicer last name than I do (and one that doesn't start with a 'Z' as being last in the alphabet often sucks). I would probably want my kids to have her last name.

[@ECD_Coven]

As a Dutch person i can kinda explain this: The unofficial national saying of the Netherlands is: Act Normally. So basically staring at someone and calling someone names means you are not conforming to the one thing we all agree wr should conform too, and since we have been one of the first to legalize gay marriage we have been openly fine with lgbtq people but there are some areas or people that don't count obviously

[@Londronable]

Belgian here and it goes a bit further imo. It's not just "act normally" but it's also a big "mind your own business". If somebody dressed ridiculous for example I'm not saying jack shit to the person about it in public.

[@VinkDaniel]

@@Londronable it is a bit of a weird mix between these 2. Yes, act normal and mind your own business, as long as you don't harm other people.

[@MusicJunky3]

"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind.” ...

[@ernestvanophuizen461]

That's a lovely saying, right up to the point where it turns out that your parents do mind.

[@MusicJunky3]

@@ernestvanophuizen461 😢

[@frankdehobbit8989]

@@ernestvanophuizen461 The moment you realise parents are people as well..

[@voornaam3191]

Important to be nice, nice to be important. Tings you can do for your country, tings your country can do for you. I think there is a word for constructions like that.

[@voornaam3191]

@@ernestvanophuizen461 Hoe vaak krijg je de vraag of je dat uitspreekt als Op Huizen of als O Fuizen? Denk maar aan Philips. PH is F.

[@Charlie49Charl]

As a dutch bisexual female I am very proud of my country and how far it has come. Being attracted to whoever you are here is normal compared to other countries which makes me very happy. I hope you continue to feel accepted, welcome and loved in our country. Xoxo

[@Salsaholic1978]

I was lucky enough to have had a gay uncle. My parents witnessed his struggle with acceptance. In those days (the eighties) it was speculated that being gay may be genetic or "in the family". My parents wanted to keep me safe from such struggles just in case I would be gay. Therefore my parents made the following decision. They sat me down at 3 or 4 years old and told me that I could always talk to them about love and love-related issues and should not be scared of love for it is the most beautiful thing in the world. They would not care if I would love a man or a woman, whatever partner I would choose they would be equally welcomed and accepted. They just said they would love to be grandparents one day, that was their only wish with regard to my future relationship. That was way before society got modern (I'm in my forties now). I was lucky to have had such modern parents that they wanted me to feel secure and safe from such a young age.

[@ottot3221]

It was about 38 years ago, I was 14 or 15 and my friend (male) dated more girls as me. One day I visited him and I saw what I thought was a Playboy but on further inspection is was a pile of Playgirls. So I concluded he was probably gay. It was a surprise but I was okay with that. I didn't ask him because I thought he should do that on his own terms. A week later I visited him but he wasn't home. But his mother wanted to speak with me. She looked worried and was very serieus. Then she said he was more and more staying in another city and said he had a sleepover with someone from school. Now she was afraid he was using drugs. My friend never toughed a sigaret nor did he drink much so I was sure he met a boyfriend but I didn't want to out him to his parents. It was tough because she was really worried but I insisted he didn't use drugs. A week later he opened the door (it was his mums birthday and I always got invited) wearing make-up and a scarf. He started to explain popstars did that too so it was fine. I didn't care and was fine with it. After the birthday party I had to stay and he came out to me. I said I already knew and that I was happy for him. That it wouldn't change a thing for me or our relationship as friends. His mum started to cry as she was afraid I wouldn't want to see him anymore. Saddest thing was that non of her family visited the party because they didn't approve. But her husbands family was fine and his parent where just lovely.

[@Lilygirl283]

I am glad his parents approved, that would have been a burden lifted of his shoulders, if the rest of the family do not approve its their problem, not his...

[@bramvanduijn8086]

@@Lilygirl283 Yeah it is the family's responsibility to learn to accept, but it still sucks for him that half rejected him.

[@jellezwaag]

Duthman here. As a 11-year old my 8th grade teacher married the teacher I had in 5th grade (both male). That was awesome. Only years later I realised it was one of the first gay marriages in our small town. However, not all my classmates were present as not all parents were supportive, and i am afraid that this would still be the case today. There is still a long way to go i think, in both country's.

[@zer0bankoe]

How did it went ? Did one of them had a suit and one a dress? Did try both had suits or both had a dress? I am really curious 😅😅

[@jellezwaag]

@@zer0bankoe although I believe your question is meant to be benign and in good spirit, it is actually kind of offending. It touches the 'hetero-centric' view of marriage. There are no male and female roles in these relationships. These two men loved each other, suited up and got married. As men.

[@zer0bankoe]

@@jellezwaag Yeah I just wanted to know. Nog nooit meegemaakt was benieuwd hoe dat gaat.

[@fleurdekoning3674]

Some time ago, a gay couple got harrassed in the NL and almost the whole country helped to track the assaulters down, it was a big thing in the news. A story like this in the news reminds me that I'm really lucky to live here, because everybody full on supported the couple! ❤

[@Uybak]

Were the harassers found? I hope so.

[@fleurdekoning3674]

@@Uybak yes and they were arrested! 😁

[@Uybak]

@@fleurdekoning3674 let’s go!😊

[@Marcello-p8s]

@@fleurdekoning3674 based

[@erictaylor5462]

When people look at me, they assume I have two real legs. It's kind of fun, sometimes, shocking people with a big "reveal." The very fist time I went golfing on my own, I was put with three other guys I didn't know. They asked me, "What's your handicap?" I knew what they were asking, but as I had never golfed before I didn't actually have one, so I said, "Oh, I'm missing a leg." The looks on their faces were priceless. I did terrible at golf by the way.

[@bararobberbaron859]

"What does he do for work?" "Oh, she's a baker". Just like that, they get the message and nobody loses face, because to be honest, as long as you're consenting adults, I, and everybody I know doesn't care. Not indifferent to love, just to the gender of the parties involved. Majority is straight so the 'what does he do' is the "right" question 80% of the time. So I guess it's kind of heteronormative but also, the norm is based on the average, and the average person is hetero, so that makes sense to me. Love is beautiful, between 2 old people on a bench, a toddler and a puppy or 2 consenting adults matters not. Think it's a case of 'I am doing my thing, you're doing your thing and that's none of my business'. No need to be a moral busybody, just keep my own lane clean if that makes sense.

[@crystalwolcott4744]

I always love responding like this because it's like "keep up straights!"

[@fy1727]

Conversation I had just two months ago in the middle a massive group of friends while we were getting to know a new somebofy who was just introduced to us ....... "Owh you life in North-Holland too? Yeah, me and my partner life in Amstrrdam Owh wow cool, how long have you two been togheter? About four years now. Owh wow, and where does he work? She's an architect down town" Nobody even gave it a second thought or made it awkward

[@miyounova]

exactly. We can't possibly talk in specific ways, we use what we see most and know best as defaults. So when we don't know people's circumstances, we assume they are heterosexual, that they have a job, that they have the citizenship of the country they live in, that their parents are still alive (if they're young-ish), that they're right-handed, etc, etc. It doesn't mean people would be against something being outside the norm and that they wouldn't accept whatever the person in front of them is, it just means it's a lot easier to live with assumptions based on the norms of our own lives. If someone tells me they live in the Netherlands, I'll assume they speak Dutch, even though I know a lot of people can live and work, for years, there without speaking the language, but residents speaking the language of the country is still a lot more common.

[@stanbertens8608]

When you are talking and they ask where you met your "man" , just continue the conversation but just chance him -> her That makes is less oncomfortabel, at least that's how my brother talks, and than still continue the flow of the conversation and they will immideatly(i am dutch and dyslectic?) Know and chance.

[@Dutch1961]

I agree. By ignoring the 'him' and just interpreting it as 'her', you'll feel less uncomfortable and you don't have to explain to them you're lesbian, which can make them feel uncomfortable because of their wrong assumption. If you just answer "I met her in New York" they will know you're a lesbian (assuming they're not deaf) without explicitely pointing out they were wrong in their assumption.

[@MarcoOostendorp]

This works fine on most Dutch people. Although I also see more and more people who don't assume a gender the first time you mentione your partner but simply ask "what does he or she do?"

[@twinkharrylwt226]

@@MarcoOostendorp true especially when someone refers to their significant other as my partner i just ask oh how did u meet your partner

[@mdboer]

I guess the problem is also that the gender neutral word is somewhat difficult to fit into the sentence, seeing as it is the plural

[@TheCountess666]

I think this probably is the best strategie (at least in the Netherlands and other gay-friendly countries). It's a correction, but without rebuking someone, and without making a bid deal out of it. If someone hasn't set off my 'gaydar' then i could well end up assuming its the opposite sex for no other reason than that guess is has a 95-97% chance of being correct. That's all it is at that point: a best guess. I'm not invested in it or anything so a non-judgmental correction doesn't offend or make things awkward. it doesn't actually matter to me either way, it's just another piece of information needed to get to know you. But i can also defiantly see that it can get a bit annoying or tiring to have to constantly correct people. Just know that when it happens people very likely don't mean anything by it.

[@weiareinboud6990]

Leuk, meid! Fijn dat je het hier fijn hebt, dat gun ik de hele wereld.

[@isabel-dc1yk]

de hele wereld? dat zijn 8 miljard mensen. zelfs als we alleen staanplaatsen uitdelen past dat toch echt niet ;)

[@ducemano]

Jij bent geen lessie, maar verstrikt geraakt in een mode grill

[@maartenc6099]

I am openly gay since I was 21. I am now 55, turning 56 this year. I was born in the Netherlands and I can tell you in the 80's things where different. It was not so easy as it is today. My parents did support me. My mothers said I knew it somehow and my father never said a word. Some of my friends did not accept it (Think they were not my friends after all). About walking hand in hand. Well I never walk hand in hand with my husband. I know it should be possible. But I do not. I think this is different if you are a woman. Two woman walking hand in hand is more accepted than two guys walking hand in hand. And I do have some bad experience with that. One day I was walking hand in hand with another man. I had my right hand in the pocket of my jacket and the other person had is hand wrapped around my hand and we were walking in a crowded shopping street. When al of a sudden a group of youngsters stood in front of us. They were holding us up. Trying to say something and then they saw that the other person was holding a white stick with red bands. I was guiding a blind person through a crowded shopping street. This convinced me to never walk hand in hand with another man except when he is blind. If I do not say I am gay, nobody will notice. I don't dress gay and I do not act gay. The persons in gay parade that are dancing in these boats do not represent me. I have nothing with pink Monday that they do with Tilburg Kermis. I work in a factory, I operate a CNC laser cutter. I live with my husband for 15 years now. We met at the COC. I pay my bills and mortgage. And just want to live a normal live. A lot has changed over the years, and it has been accepted, for the most part. But sometimes people can act like real dicks. And yes I do think it is a bit different if you are a girl. I am proud to be gay and would not have it any other way.

[@dominee93]

Wow great story Maarten and when I'm reading it, why should a gay woman or man look different than a straight woman or man And yeah it's so stupid that there are people who are show their opinion about your life, what give them te right about that... And yeah for woman it's more easy, maybe a lot of girls are walking hand in hand But yeah, why should I care about who someone likes who I don't know

[@jh110695]

I’m very sorry to see you still don’t feel comfortable walking hand in hand in 2021, but that’s completely understandable considering the time you came out in. The good news is that these days, we definitely don’t struggle as much as you did back then. I came out 7 years ago, and ever since, I’ve walked hand in hand and kissed in public with my boyfriend and past boyfriends without thinking twice, both in the Netherlands and abroad (even in Istanbul, cautiously). I might be really oblivious, but I haven’t noticed one dirty look directed at us, let alone comments, intimidation or violence. Anti-LGBT violence definitely still exists, even in the Netherlands, but I can honestly say it has not impacted my life at all (so far). Disclaimer: I’m white, have never lived in particularly religious areas, and “don’t look gay” (whatever that means). I know my experience isn’t representative of all gay people.

[@user-rx4jg8lq7h]

@@jh110695 I'm glad to hear we do have some progress! Hope this continues. Anti-gay sentiment or discimination (or even violence) is horrifying. So unfair. It's only because gay people are in the minority that people get away with that. It's so "makkelijk" to pick on minorities.

[@donder91]

Great story. I always wonder if the gay pride is so great for accepting gay people. I always felt on this day the message is: We will now act like animals and not wear clothing to show we are equal to straight people! And... I always wonder how that shows any equality, it does quite the opposite in my opinion.

[@youteacher78]

Hey fellow CNC machinist! As a heterosexual working in shipbuilding I already find the homophobia rampant in metal workshops. I wouldn't come out as gay to my colleagues probably. What's your experience?

[@A_Casual_NPC]

"you dont look gay."is a terrible thing to say. Cuz what people really are saying is: You dont fit in this stereotypical view i have of gay people and therefor I think you are wrong.

[@robforge7667]

To be fair, there is a huge percentage of gay men that act f eminent and gay women that act masculine, yea not all but a lot of them. Don't act like that's not a thing and people are just stereotyping because it is a thing, go to a gay rally and you see its the vast mayority. Like you have to be blind and deaf not to notice Martien Meiland is gay. Gay people rarely show no signs of being gay like the familie Wensink could see it coming from their daughter. I also think that a lot of people may think that young people growing up can be confused on their place in the world, especially nowadays's where everybody is telling you on what to feel and think, and you should grow up and get some experience in life first b4 making big life decisions that impact you and others. Don't alway's put the things that people say in a bad light.

[@A_Casual_NPC]

@@robforge7667 it's not that the stereotype doesn't exist, I don't deny that. But, just cuz it's there doesn't mean you have to mention it. By saying someone doesn't look gay (enough) you're invalidating then and their feelings. So what there are gay people out there who maybe overly express so, just as many don't. Just because a gay pride parade or a gay pride rally has a majority of people who you describe as acting femine or masculine, doesn't mean it's a fair representation of the overall gay community. And saying that it comes from a concern about then growing up, or that they think they might be confused is just plain bullshit. That's again just invalidating them and their feelings. Who are you to decide that for them, who are you to not take them seriously? So what they might be exploring, so what it might be a phase. It's implying that there's something wrong with that and that just makes you one big asshole.

[@robforge7667]

@@A_Casual_NPC The gay community even has terms like gaydar to look for specific traits in other people to see if their gay but if a straight person would do the literal same thing then its stereotyping and wrong...thats hypocritical. You think its bullshit that for example parents nowadays's are worried that their children is now via the internet in contact with all shorts of bad influencing stuff to brainwash them into all short of stupid shit.? Its a scary time 2 being a parent, now your just invalidating parents feelings. Your feelings do not begin where my freedom of expression ends, feelings are subjective and a stupid thing to build society around because different people experience things differently. Do whatever you want but what i don't like is that people make stupid decisions and then expect people who made good decisions to pay for their bad decisions like a single mother on welfare with five kids.

[@peepeevs]

Probably people are just saying "I hadn't guessed you were gay".... No need to overthink it...

[@AlexJon83]

Rob, there is a difference between saying that someone doesn't look like a stereotypical gay person without putting in doubt that they are gay and saying: are you sure you are gay cause you don't look/act like one...

[@AlexJon83]

Thanks for sharing this. To be honest it always felt The Netherlands is just a few years ahead of America in this aspect . But we are not there yet. Still a long way to go. In a way it's interesting to see how America is going to the motions of accepting it. It's nice to see you have a mostly positive experience here in The Netherlands and ... I just found it to adorable to see you be so touched by the acceptance of your in-laws. I will try to stay and be more aware btw of assuming the gender of someone's partner. Good thing to be aware of.

[@AlexJon83]

@@72mokekita I think there is a lot of nuance here. If you look at ratings and alike then we have a pretty decent healthcare system. Which is somewhere in the top when compared to other countries in the world. But I don't think it's THE best. And there is still a lot to work on. But yes it is a lot better then the USA system for example. As for euthanasia. Is not that easy. There are a lot of restrictions and rules and stuff. Also within in the country there is still a lot debate about it. It's a sensitive subject for sure. The government does try to create a save climate for LBGTQ+ people and for people to follow any religion or none as they want. But society itself still has issues we have to work on. We might be ahead of some countries. But we are not there yet.

[@72mokekita]

@@AlexJon83 sorry for being a bit sarcastic about these topics. It would to have a extensive chat about this but i think this is not the right place.

[@AlexJon83]

@@72mokekita that's ok. I wasn't sure if you were sarcastic or not. But I just tried to take your comment seriously. I do not know your background and experiences within the Netherlands. So basically I do not know where you are coming from. If you get what I mean. In any case. I sometimes do get a bit uncomfortable when people sort of idolize The Netherlands. Cause it's simply not perfect. Some things still not go as they should. That doesn't take away that we are ahead of many other countries on some area's. But some other countries on some aspects will be ahead of us. Also I already said it, but we still have a lot of work to do. That said, I hope for a better future.

[@dodopson3211]

@@AlexJon83 I don't know what the original comment by gbc was but I for one am glad that euthanasia is possible in our country. My grandmother had terminal cancer and she'd basically stop being herself long before she'd die so she decided to die as herself still. She did have to go sooner than she wanted because of the rules though: you still have to be coherent enough to say you really want to on the day they put you to rest, else they can't do it even if you made prior arrangements for it.

[@MarcoSwart]

I am more of the generation of your parents and my parents migrated to the Netherlands from Indonesia. I have experienced the change in our society for the better, but I can still understand how your parents hoped for something very different. Sometimes our hopes can help us to achieve great things, but sometimes they make us unhappy with great things we did achieve. Your parents raised a great daughter. They should take pride in you. I know I would.

[@Lilygirl283]

My cousin is gay, happily married, with 1 child, very happy that she has found love, love is love, who you love does not matter to me...

[@perripie]

This is really great to hear! I am lucky to have many many LGBT+ friends from growing up in California and doing theater in highschool. I’ve never openly dated a woman but it seems like I wouldn’t have faced much discrimination in my specific area, but I can’t really say. I’m so happy that I’ll be accepted when I go to university in Utrecht next fall! I think a lot of us really young (under 20) gays forget that not so long ago things were much harder for lgbt people, I can hardly imagine facing much discrimination but I’m sure I will in my lifetime. I’m so glad things are getting better :)

[@justsomeoneelzeys7583]

Fun fact : the unofficial slogan of the Netherlands is “act normal you’re crazy enough” Like be who you wanna be but don’t bother other people with it like be respectful to others act normal

[@AnythingButOrdinairy]

Came to the channel for the Expat info, stayed cause you're amazing, and I can relate to you so much.

[@peterstrous7075]

So nice to hear you feel accepted being gay in Holland. Tolerance has always been an important part of the Dutch culture.

[@patrickvandriel5350]

Thank you for your coming out story. I never realised that not just negative but also positive comments can make you feel like you stand out. Thanks for the eye opener, I'll be more mindful of it.

[@maritdegoede9119]

aw, the ending is very sweet Ava, and i am really sorry your family doesn't feel like they can support you, for now at least. i loved this more personal video!

[@randysem]

Thank you for sharing your story and giving your perspective. Very interesting to hear this and I can only hear these stories when people decide to open up about them. Happy to hear your inlaws are so cool.

[@nfboogaard]

Very sorry to hear about your family, that must feel terrible. I hope love will prevail. Our country is richer for having you ❤️

[@roccomeijer1380]

Erg goede video, goed dat jij het van uit jou/jullie oogpunt zo bespreekbaar gemaakt hebt, ga zo door! ik blijf met plezier naar je video’s kijken! succes!

[@athosaegon]

my mum deadass asked my younger sister if she knew whether she liked boys or girls or both yet and my sister was like 'i'm not really sure' and my mum was like that's alright ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ just know that it won't matter who you love it's all ok I love my family they're the best honestly

[@francescocraanen5625]

Eva, this Little Video is really cool. And so are you. The end of this video was absolutely touching. Really happy to hear that you found your home and your love in the Netherlands. Het is je zo van harte gegund. Grote groet uit Berlijn

[@theoloonstra9009]

All that matters is that you are happy. Never deny yourself for who you are.

[@CL-rh8ti]

I can relate to this so much, great video. Am now dreaming of the Netherlands on a cold rainy Seattle day.

[@Helena-qq7td]

i'm dutch and it actually surprised me when i got a girlfriend how rude people can still be on the street when you show affection :') wouldn't wanna be somewhere where it's even worse.

[@depressedutchman]

Same with me and my bf... Just don't show too much affection. I wish hetero couples did that too

[@afcansf5996]

@@depressedutchman What do you mean, people here get annoyed as well when to hetero' s make out in public, it doesnt matter what your sexual preference is. With the exception during the night life; making out publicly is considered to be not done.

[@depressedutchman]

@@afcansf5996 you're absolutely right! But i see a lot of hetero coupkles just kissing and hugging with no complaints... meanwhile when i gave my bf a kiss on the cheek i got scoldes for a "kanker homo"

[@janwolters5779]

Hi, I am so proud of you to be so open and outgoing and I was so touched on the end of your video where you were saying that you parents were having troubles accepting your life style. Just be your self and enjoy youre life to the fullest

[@dr.oetqer]

I'm raised by two gay women in the Netherlands. Now, that doesn't looks like a huge deal but if you consider I'm 38 now, back then it was. Although I got some crap about it once in a while from other children it wasn't really a problem even though I'm the product of artificial insemination, which was in the early years of its more commonly existence. I don't know better than it's normal two people of the same gender are in a relationship and don't make those stupid assumptions that they should be heterosexual. Throughout the years I met many gay women who were in a relationship and wanted children. They asked me for advice and my own experiences which I was honored to answer and help.

[@smenor]

I love your videos So sorry about your parents but glad your Inlaws are so accepting

[@PrinceWalacra]

Everybody has the right to .... “forget his/her identity” ... thank you for that comment ;-)

[@hvwees]

So beautiful honest and open story! You rock !

[@cheriquearts7496]

I recognise the holding hand thing. I live in the Netherlands. So one day I was shopping in Eindhoven. And 2 boys (teens) walk hand in hand in front of me. And just when a thought aww what cute a couple. They had seen me and immediately let go of either. And the first thing I thought was: why? Straight, gay, lesbian, trans...I don't care. You are you and love is love and that's what counts. So go walk hand in hand.

[@depressedutchman]

Eindhoven is kinda iffy walking hand in hand for gays. I speak out of my own experience. The lesser folk of eindhoven just doesn't like that a man can love a man. They can tongue kiss girls and hold hands, while I need to be careful even holding hands.

[@ryn2844]

My Dutch 90 year old grandma is also accepting of me and my sister being bi. When my sister came out she did say 'but you have long hair!', but it was just surprise. She still accepted it. I'm also nonbinary and haven't told my extended family yet, but I have good hope things will go okay. My dad says she recently made him read a newspaper article about a trans woman and said something along the lines of 'look, this is amazing, so brave!' So I think things will be fine once I get the courage to actually come out haha.

[@SandsOfArrakis]

Well my late grandmother always used to say "Just be yourself". And that coming from a Frisian grandma says a lot. I guess I've picked that up form an early age as well. I'm straight myself, but I have no issues with other people's sexual preferences. Just "be yourself" :)

[@renatevanstraaten5871]

Okay, so I feel like the story of my family may add something to this conversation, though I’m not sure what exactly. My maternal grandparents were (my grandpa has passed away) in a relationship that involved three people. It all started with my grandpa who almost became a priest but then decided that he couldn’t give up in alcohol and women, so he moved to Amsterdam where he met my grandma. They wanted to live together (very progressive in the 60-70’s) but had to get married in order to do that, so they did (my grandma kept her own last name, also not really done in that period). They then had my mother and met my other grandmother at her daycare (my grandma worked fulltime even after having a kid, again, not common in the 70’s). From then on the relationship involved three people. My grandparents then had another kid, my aunt, who is currently in a relationship with another woman. We met her for the first time in November and at the end of the evening she told us how she was surprised our family was so accepting, but given our ‘history’ it doesn’t seem too weird. She also told us how she didn’t dare come out to her own family (they live in the Bible-belt) and for some reason I was quite taken aback. I move in very progressive circles so I kinda thought that most people were tolerant, if not accepting. Also something to clarify perhaps; my grandmothers don’t have a romantic relationship with each other, only with my grandpa. I never really got told this until I was about 12 and I always just assumed that my grandmothers were lesbian as well as hetero (I didn’t know about bi-sexuality yet), but it turned out that they were in a polyamorous relationship. Apparently I’m not the only one who was confused, since the people in our village also thought they were lesbian (my grandpa passed away before we moved to the village so they wouldn’t really know about their relationship with him) and even when my mom tries to clarify, some still don’t get it.

[@JasperJanssen]

Love triangles can be triangles or Ls, and as long as that’s what all the parties want, that seems like a fine arrangement.

[@WaarisMarleen]

I love this story. I am so glad that people are able to be who they are as long as all people involved in the relationship are happy with the situation. I do have a question...after your grandfather passed away, did your grandmothers still stayed living together?

[@AkborVideo]

Hi Ava, thank you for this very personal story. It is sad to hear about your parents, but it is great to hear that your inlaws are giving you what you were missing. Keep on enjoing living here. :) Greetings, Ron

[@sophiedenijs8481]

im just so glad you felt safe in my homecountry❤️

[@johanv4668]

i was thinking the same. also to express your feelings on youtube is also not, nothing. wish you all the best. enjoy live

[@antoinettenovella1630]

Incredibly brave of you to be vulnerable, huge fan of your content. Thank you.

[@TheNewPatsyBailey]

2001, yay, I remember it like yesterday! My twin brother and his (now) husband were the first gay couple to get married in our city 🥰 they even made the local newspaper, lol. Maybe one day I'll follow in his footsteps (should probably get a girlfriend first though) 😂 Thanks for sharing your story! 😊

[@kenninast]

Straight cis guy here, but I'm 100% LGBT+ supportive! I love that you feel completely normal, here in Europe, because you ARE completely normal. =)

[@damouze]

Hi Ava, I have been watching your videos for quite a while now, and I must say it never bothered me at all what your 'life choices' were. Your parents raised a wonderful daughter and our country is richer for having you and I am also very happy to hear your in-laws are so supportive. I have a friend who has gender dysphoria. I think the people around him* had known for quite a while, but when he finally dared admit it to himself and others, it was almost too late. When he asked me, in front of his family, what I thought of it, I did not have to think twice about saying that the most important thing for me was that he was happy, with himself and with whomever he loved. At that time he was still struggling with it himself, but that was the first big step he took to reconcile his body with his psyche. At his request, I became an advocate for his situation to our mutual friends, both in the country and abroad. Unsurprisingly, all of them admitted that they had always known and not a single one turned out to be unsupportive. If my girlfriend and I are ever blessed with children (we are both a little older so it is not a given), we have pledged that they will be loved for who they turn out to be, not for what our expectations of them are going to be. We both feel that this should not be too hard. *) I am using 'he' and 'him' as the personal pronoun that has historically been the gender neutral personal pronoun in Germanic languages. 'They' and 'them' still feel a bit awkward to me and I know that my friend does not mind anyhow.

[@DutchAmericano]

Thank you for your nice message, and I am so happy for your friend!

[@damouze]

@@DutchAmericano You're welcome.

[@sophieromanca]

This is so interesting, it's so nice that the change happened, but at the same time so sad that it was only so recently

[@Frahamen]

So as a straight person, I think the best way to support gay people is to just be normal with them. I'm not going to make a big deal if I found out a friend has a straight partner, so why would it be different if it's the same gender relationship?

[@davedevosbaarle]

I feel the same. Someone's sexual orientation is very much a non issue to me. IME homosexual people are not different from heterosexual people.

[@dnwitte]

You reminded me of a friend of my stepmother's who got all weird and wouldn't talk to me after I came out. I mentioned it to my stepmother and she said "Well Lisa doesn't know how to act around you now." WTF. Did I suddenly sprout horns?

[@badeend86]

I have to say i think it's extremely brave of you that you followed your heart and are true to yourself despite the lack of support from your own family. I'm glad i grew up in a family where it doesn't matter weither i bring home a man or a woman.

[@lindaraterink6451]

Just some piece of advice. Don't ever 'come out' again. And I don't mean shove it back in the closet again. I never say 'Hi! I am Linda, I am hetero.' So why should you? When someone ask where did you meet him? Just say I met her at.. Don't make such a big deal out of it.

[@mandarintomato9205]

Way to dismiss her inner world 🤦‍♀️

[@lindaraterink6451]

@@mandarintomato9205 Where am I dismissing her inner world? What I am saying is, that she souldn't feel the need or obligation to expain everytime what her preference is, unless she wants to her self ofcourse. Cause quite frankly it should and realy does not matter.

[@crystalwolcott4744]

Look, I may have typed all that out in anger, but I'm not going to apologize. I know you meant this in a nice and maybe even supportive way, but clearly you haven't thought it through. Minorities aren't loud and proud about our identities for no reason, we are loud and proud because we are told we shouldn't be. That we should be ashamed. That we shouldn't exist. That we are inferior because of some thing we were born with, wether that be skin tone, facial features, disabilities, or sexual orientation. Coming out is a big deal because literally at any time someone could react by straight up KILLING us, or beating us, or even r*ping us. And in many countries, including the USA, its legal/almost legal to kill someone because they came out to you and that upset you. (It's a real thing called the "Gay Panic Defense," and people have used it to even get out of killing a /straight/ person, just because they THOUGHT they were gay. In modern USA). Even without being met with violence there are often other negative repercussions to coming out. People can lose their jobs, be evicted, and even have parental rights taken away, just because it came out they were gay. These are just some of the things running through our heads every time we have to "correct" someone who assumed we were straight. This and a thousands other things run through your head every time and you have to make a split second decision that could end with an awkward conversation or could end with violence. These aren't things that will ever cross your mind. Even if you had to correct someone and tell them, "lol, no, I'm straight," you never had to worry that doing so could put you in danger. You think it's easy, and no big deal because you've never had to deal with it yourself. You never HAVE to introduce yourself like 'Hi! I am Linda, I am hetero,' because the majority will always assume you are. Now I'm going to assume you are a cis woman, because your name is Linda and frankly, you sound like a cis, so correct me if I'm wrong. But imagine a man telling you to "stop making a big deal about your period." OR even "don't make such a big deal about being a woman, I don't make a big deal out of being a man!" Wouldn't that upset you? Wouldn't that grind your gears? I am glad you aren't a straight up homophobe, but stuff like this can be hurtful and damaging too. This kind of thing invalidates who we are and our identity. You probably thought you were being kind by implying we aren't any different than straight people, but we are. You are clearly unaware of the privilege you have to NEVER have to come out. For us it's an insult to tell us that. Like telling us to hide a part of who we are just because you don't have to worry about the same things we do.

[@crystalwolcott4744]

OMG, I came back to say that I was sorry if I came off to mean in the first comment and the first comment was deleted?

[@rrocketman]

Interesting to listen to while I work. Good luck to you guys👍🏻

[@paul.van.santvoord1232]

In the beginning to the end, all that counts: are you happy in your relationship?

[@Goregreet]

Here in the netherlands we have a saying " leef en laat leven " Basicly meaning be yourself and be accepting of others

[@afcansf5996]

True, but the proper transnation would be "to live and let live".

[@evaroovers4871]

If you have the situation again when someone just speedly asked "where did you met hím?" Just react very easy back "I met hér at a coffee bar" an the person will get it and won't make a fuzz about it it's totally okay and you won't have to litelary say that you're gay or bi

[@Boslandschap1]

Very interesting, and very well illustrated. 11:25 and onwards : When you explain how you feel that at times, you estimate it is better to obfuscate that you and partner are together, I thought how that must suck, be it in the Netherlands, USA or elsewhere. As you explain, anyone would prefer to be accepted with their partner to the point of it not even being mentioned or particularly noticed, more so than it being accepted and having people remind you of you divergent, but explicitely accepted relationship. About people implicitely expecting your partner to be a man: I understand that you'd really would want that people would add your being with a woman is by actively added in the conscious range of possible relationships a woman can have, but most people simply don't expect you (or anyone for that matter) to be part of a minority group where its defining traits are not visible. It seems to be integral to the human psyche to bring the complexity of the world around them back to a model that is not 100% a perfect representation of all the intricacies of reality, but which is a balance between manageable and precision. Precision is lost, but by eliminating the most unlikely, the cost of that reduction in complexity is minimized. I would feel quite at ease to defend that this capacity of bringing a huge quantity of observable phenomena back to a manageable and useable model is what makes humans capable of having attained to a complex society as it in 2021. In that regard, being presupposed to be more in line with the majority is the inevitable sort of any member of an invisible minority. It may be irritating that people don't consciously think of the possibility that you may be part of your personal minority, but I do understand why people tend to do that and I try to focus on the fact that there is no disrespect intended. That doesn't mean that it doesn't affect you, that is very understandeable as well.

[@martine5923]

Being trans and in process of moving to Netherlands to live with GF, I can say that even if Norway is pretty good on LGBT+ I have less stress and forget about stuff walking in the streets here. Like Ye sure Ive been missgendered like ones on purpose after I spoke cause to deep voice or whatever, (I just assumed they where ignorant religious person and moved on) In Norway I how ever constantly get missgendered at pharmacy soon as they realize Im trans picking up HRT. Also Norway people will look at you just holding hands even if they don't say anything, So being LGBT+ is pretty great here

[@wwolkje929]

Very glad for you that your experience this in the Netherlands. But it's a big win for you that you live (around) Amsterdam. I live in Friesland and here it's very different because here's less "different" cultures etc.

[@gangapoornima]

So happy that you have a good life, and to bad for your parents, missing such a great person they helped create. I have Hindu parents, and i have been bisexual since i remember thinking about who i like, and only my friends know.

[@BelgianRykerBiker]

Thanks for talking about the heteronormative society and how that affects you with people just "assuming". As a part of that heteronormative society, I had never even thought about it and how that assumption would feel for you, so I'm glad that I learned this today and it'll help me understand better.

[@mistrants2745]

Alright a honest bi-curious guy's perspective on 'looking gay'. Disclaimer: i know some of what i say below might be a bit blunt. I wont blame my Dutch directness for it but instead, as someone who has shared the bed with other guys a number of times, please believe me none of it is intended to be intolerant towards gay people. There is this stereotype about gay people kinda adopting some of the characteristics of the opposite sex. So, gay men being feminine and gay women being a bit masculine. This is of course not true... buuuut it kinda is as well. Quite a number of gay people (at least the ones i know which at... 9 isnt that big of a study haha) seem to adhere to this stereotype at least a little. However, i suspect based on no actual science that this has more to do with people who come out of the closet sometimes feeling the need to embrace their new freedom to express themselves which often leads to embracing a part of the stereotype that comes with it. Of the 9 gay people i know i think about 7 would adhere to that stereotype enough that most people's 'gaydar'. 2 of the 9 are in fact so over the top that it gets annoying. Not them being gay, but them basically acting like Big Gay Al or Mr. Slave from south park. Honestly i think its wonderfully refreshing (even though it shouldnt be refreshing) to see someone discuss the subject who hasnt embraced that stereotype at all seemingly. I think its very important for people to realise gay people are indistinquishable from any other group of people and them being attracted to the same sex doesnt define the rest of their character. I also think there are quite a number of gay people who themselves could benefit from the idea that their sexuality doesnt have to define their character (even though its perfeclty understandable why some do end up doing that as long as there is intolerance towards them).

[@TheNewPatsyBailey]

I think you're missing an important point here: heteronormativity. I get that you base your opinion on the gay people you know, but trust me, there are a LOT of gay people who don't fit into 'the stereotype'. It's just that when you walk down the street, you wouldn't recognize them as being gay - you'd assume they're straight. Only the ones who 'act really gay' register as gay. A lot of people do this (unfortunately). This is not a personal attack, mind you, I know a lot of gay people who do this as well. It's sadly drilled into our society. But it just makes the non-stereotypical gays less visible.....which doesn't mean they're not there. My second point is, I know you don't mean to offend, but saying that it's annoying to you when the gay people you know act like Big Gay Al actually is kind of offensive in my opinion. It's like saying 'well yes, they can be gay, but not TOO GAY'.I mean, it's just who they are. It's also not up to you to decide how gay someone can actually be, you know what I mean? The whole idea is that straight people don't define, restrict or even narrow the (gay) box someone's in. If you're only comfortable around gay people when they don't act 'too gay', I think you should ask yourself honestly why that is. Tolerance is not the same as acceptance...those questions are worth asking, I think. Not saying that's necessarily what's going on with you, though. I might've misconstrued. I don't know if I explained myself very well, I hope you get the gist. Also, what exactly do you mean when you say gay people could benefit from the idea that their sexuality doesn't define their character? It's a bit unclear to me. In what way is that beneficial? And what if they want to, or are incapable to do otherwise? Etc.

[@mistrants2745]

@@TheNewPatsyBailey Thank you for your measured response. Ill answer your remarks point by point :). Your first part about the unseen gay people i 150% agree with (and it kinda ties into my final point but ill get to that later). Honestly its part of the point i was trying to make but might have failed to do so: gay people are NOT the stereotype we often see. And its important in my opinion to put more of an emphasis on the gay people who are indistinquishable on the street because we have to end the whole " gay people are different but thats okay" theme: gay people arent different. At least no more different than a person with brown hair is from someone with blond hair. The annoyance part. I maybe should have clarified this a bit more. My main annoyance with these specific people is how they, within a month, 'changed' into a seemingly over the top stereotype of what gay people supposedly look like. Kinda ties into the previous part. And this does definitely happen. Being free to be who you are going over the top and suddenly defining your entire character by that trait you didnt dare to express beforehand. Its understandable but i find it annoying with those specific people not because its 'gay' but because with the people i have in mind (actual people in my life, not an abstract group of gay people) it feels fake and forced. Kinda ties into my last part about it being beneficial: i think it can be a good thing to realise you dont have to conform to the stereotype to be a proper gay person. Kinda harkens back to your point about the unseen gay people. I know multiple gay people who told me that when they first came out they totally went wild and acted as gay as they could because they felt that, now that they were out, they should embrace 'being gay' only to later realise they werent being true to how they really are and they didnt need to act like a caricature to be a proper gay person because like you said: the stereotype accounts for only a small but very visible portion of gay people. Now if they want to they are free to do so of course. I have my personal opinions about some of those things but my personal distaste for over the top extravagant behaviour in general is in no way an argument to say they shouldnt be allowed to act that way. But they shouldnt feel forced to do so.

[@peepeevs]

@@TheNewPatsyBailey I would like to add.. People that act "overtly gay"so to speak, are usually just people who act overtly flamboyant... And I guess that that's moreso the annoying part. I don't think it has much to do with how much people would "allow" them to be gay... Overtly flamboyant people are just kinda annoying... The one way that their sexuality does tie in to it: it's that the sexual preference sorta gets used as a shield to excuse that sort of behavior. It just gets confused with "acting gay"and therefor some people view it as being intolerant of homosexuality, eventhough it probably isn't.

[@Lillith.]

If you would make a list of all the things people do and how they dress according to the stereotype and checked it for everyone, not just gay people, you'd probably see that everyone does things that fit the stereotype. The gay people don't fall on the end and the straight people at the beginning, you'd most likely see a mix.

[@JasperJanssen]

Part of the whole stereotype thing is, well, mating plumage. If you’re identifiably gay at a glance - setting off gaydar for even the most oblivious of straights - that’s a triple edged sword: it tells people of the wrong gender not to bother trying, it tells people of the right gender that they totally can bother trying (and while they might get shot down, at least they’re not likely to be beaten up for trying) and it also tells the intolerant who they can attack. Two of those three are pretty useful in parts of daily life! These days, now that (I am told) there are dating apps and that that is how people get to meet each other, and they just have checkboxes for “my gender” and “my preferred partner’s gender” (I think I heard tinder and Grindr both implemented that, trying to muscle in on each other’s territory) it’s less important than it was decades back.#

[@VgHarrie]

Ava. Thank you for your story and your openness. Follow your heart. It is your life and your life only. A pity to hear about your parents. Hope for you they will accept at the end. Take care.

[@bruceadler9709]

In conversation, when someone says "My partner and I....." I immediately refer to them as a gay couple as do many of my friends and acquaintances. Normally a guy would say " My girlfriend and I...." or a woman would say " My boyfriend and I....", but when someone says "My partner and I...." I immediately translate that to same sex.

[@user-rx4jg8lq7h]

I always say 'my partner and I', because nobody needs to know that I'm in a heterosexual relationship!

[@missautumn764]

Lol I also often say my partner, however, we are in a heterosexual relationship... So I wouldn't assume so quickly. :p

[@alamunez]

That’s just weird. People should be allowed to use any word they choose without you instantly categorising (and seemingly judging) them. Oh, and you should also stop referring to hetero people as ‘normal’.

[@vbuijten]

Great to hear Ava. When I talk to my daughters (10 and 5), we consciously say when we talk about the future, "later, if you have a boyfriend or girlfriend .... ". I know it's a small thing but I just want them to know subconsciously that being heterosexual or gay (or anything really) is completely fine with us and we will always love them and accept them, and we want them to know this in advance.

[@MLWJ1993]

"Gay" is such a weird word. You just love someone 😆

[@mz8194]

Doesn't gay mean happy? Stay that way brave girl!!

[@generaldreagonlps6889]

Considering the meaning the word gay has these days the name Gaylord is even weirder.

[@Potjandorie]

if gay is a weird word then so is straight

[@MLWJ1993]

@@Potjandorie they're all weird words... I'd rather just call it love and be done with it. No other words necessary...

[@Dutchbelg3]

“Gay” is just a word for same-sex love as “black” is for a darker skintone. It should just be an descriptive term without any negative connotation.

[@zeekade79]

Thank you for the video! I came out in the late 90s here in NL when I was 18. I think it depends a lot on your social or religious background and area you grew up. Coming from a medium populated town, middle class family and going to university in Rotterdam, I had no issues, especially among students. But there are still areas (notably bible belt and lower class suburbs) where it can be really tough. Many younger gays tend to move to the west (notably Amsterdam), leaving the medium towns. As a result, gay life outside the Randstad declined, not much to do. Many local bars closed down during the first decade of the 2000s, but that may as well be due to the rise of internet-dating around that time.

[@whitegamma5106]

Hmm, I grew up in a small town in Drenthe and have been 100% accepted here and in the other small towns around. There are actually quite some homosexual couples that openly and happily live near me. I dont think the cities are bad places to live but they dont seem better either. The Netherlands is just a lovely country for gay people to live in in my opinion.

[@nerysvanbeurden8434]

What's great to me is just how same-sex relationships can be so normal in the Netherlands that people don't even think "oh they are gay or bisexual". My best friends' sister thought she didn't know gay people untill my best friend reminded her about my foster-moms, and she went like; "ooooh". But then again, other minorities in the LGBTQ+ community sometimes still get discriminated against. For example, I'm asexual, but I get the same kind of comment of "maybe you haven't met the right person yet" All The Time. Even my lesbian moms didn't think I could know I was asexual at age 16. (I'm 19 now and still ace...) I think it will still take some times before people will finally accept all different genders, sexualities, romantic preferences etc. etc. without it being a progressive thing. I also think the Netherlands is this 'progressive' because religion doesn't have such a large influence here as it has in for example the US.

[@wildekorte221]

Go for it you are a great person and become happy in Holland

[@abrahamcusters2987]

I think the judgmental anti gay attitude comes from religions. The USA is still very Christian but in the Netherlands Christians are a minority. And they generally adapted themselves and quite often the are even supportive. But there are quite a lot of Muslims now. They are still at least one century behind on many matters. So the neighborhoods with a lot of Muslims are not supportive, but the autochtone Dutch are wonderful people.

[@araaaraa9765]

Hope your Dutch experience carries on being good. We do have some homophobic people, but mostly we like to accept people as they are. To each their own, live and let live....

[@hansutrecht6555]

Almost nobody in The Netherlands cares about gay relationships. Most people happily accept and don’t even think about it. Just some people with a different cultural background, either immigrants or second generation, have often problems with it and don’t hold back telling you so or even insult you in the street. Hence your not feeling at ease in some neighborhoods. Don’t let that get you down though. For the most we Dutch are supportive without constantly letting you know and that’s how it should be. Live your life and be happy 😊 and keep your videos coming.

[@imzieful]

I don’t entirely agree with you on this one. Sure The Netherlands is one of the leading gay-accepting countries in the world but we still have a long long way to go. It’s still a fact that certain schools can dismiss a teacher when they are or come out as being openly gay. A few years ago SuitSupply ran this ad in The Netherlands were you could see two men kissing on giant posters. That ad showed the homophobia of the Netherlands: sure be gay but don’t show it. Don’t act like it. And it’s not just the “immigrants” or the “people with a different cultural background” it’s the white dutch men and women just as much.

[@hansutrecht6555]

@@imzieful Well you’re partly wright in your free opinion, but in general most people don’t have a problem with gay relationships. There will always be some hardliners who don’t approve of gay relationships, either immigrants or native Dutch, but in general I think we’re still in the frontline of accepting gay relationships.

[@hesseldekraai]

What a shame to hear that your family is not supportive! I love to have you here!

[@thisiszombit6212]

My story (Dutch) Me: “mom I am gay” Mom: “I know”

[@corienbakker6990]

Only 20 years ago in The Netherlands things were different too. I'm one of the organisers of a 'pink women camping festival' (Flevovuur, look it up, feel welcome to join!) and I know that our somewhat older participants have been living so long in a non-accepting environment, that they NEED this camping weekend for a moment to feel safe, accepted and themselves!

[@ProsciuttinoXL]

I've enjoyed your videos for a few months now. You did this one, on a subject that relates to you personally, very well. Sad, that your parents are not able to accept you for who you are. Perhaps it's a question of time. My Dutch grandfather never came to terms with me being gay either. Thats thirty years ago.

[@WaarisMarleen]

Sorry to hear your family is not supportive! Even more brave and strong and cool of you to have this open and honest KZbin channel! Do they watch your vlogs? Anyway, I'm glad you found a family in our small country, but I do wish for you that your family will support you and your partner some day soon.

[@Dutch3DMaster]

3:34 Ah yes, the "you don't look gay" thing or, similar to my experience "But, you don't look male at all?" as a transfemale because people have such a huuuuge stereotypical image of what they think people look like as someone who went through boy puberty that they don't even realise there are so many people around them that have such a huge mix of body characteristics deemed male and female. I seriously had people (and it's even funnier when it's a remark made by females who are taller than me, and as a result also taller than average) ask me "How I managed to stay so short". Anyhow, that said, when I told the gymnastics group I was in what was up the response was good as well, though at times, I have wondered what the response would've been like if I would not pass as well as I do because of being short, having small shoulders and a feminine face.

[@Doubleranged1]

I think it is okay of you show your emotion in your video. I kinda felt like you were constraining yourself at the end. But I am glad you feel accepted where you are. Keep being you, you are awesome.

[@blizzartz12]

Dutchie here, some time ago a guy couple (guy's) approached me and started flirting. And eventhough I'm not gay I found it flattering anyway. Is that the same for you?

[@sjoerdglaser2794]

I'm very glad to hear such a positive story of being gay in the Netherlands. As a Dutch person, it is easy to only focus on the negative stories. I have met plenty of non supportive people, mostly with an immigrant background or in rural areas. (I vividly remember being on a farmers get together and people just loudly agreeing with each other that 'being gay is just not normal'.) So with that in mind, I'm really happy to hear that you sometimes forget being gay! Exactly how it should be :)

[@Stefan_Van_pellicom]

Three things crossed my mind. - Don’t be “Oh Mifanwy, I’m the only gay in the village”. 😉 No need to announce it. When “your man” comes up, just correct them by saying “it’s my woman” and you’re done. Can’t blame the world for assuming you belong to the 97% hetero group ... - In our culture the lesbian stereotype is the butch/femme model, and we just can’t distinguish between femme and hetero. Probably because there is no difference to be seen ? Hence the comment : you don’t look lesbian. And connected to this : does a gaydar exist ? - Glad to see you found someone to be happy with !! Gender is not relevant.

[@erikje7352]

just happy we [ the dutch ] stand out in a positive way

[@GentleRainRobbert]

"Good morning Eva you might be gay" hahahaha

[@vanhetgoor]

How wonderful that you are openly fishing for compliments. Next time they tell you that you don't look like a Lesbian, you tell them that you missed the appointment at the hair salon. By the way, most men in the Netherlands consider two women kissing each other as something beautiful.

[@stephenvanwijk9669]

I am Dutch. It is just no issue. It never was. We think Martien Meiland is hilarious, because he is such a queen. But Martien is also a part of our Dutch identity, we are together, you know.

[@You-mr3lo]

Not every Dutchman, or even gay Dutchman likes Martien Meiland. Many gays are irritated by 'overly effeminate' gays. A guy that yells OMG..need to shut it. (Doe Normaal, dan doe je al gek genoeg)

[@stephenvanwijk9669]

@@You-mr3lo Hilarious though.

[@user-rx4jg8lq7h]

@@You-mr3lo Nope. No need whatsoever to 'doe normaal'. I.m.h.o. all gay people may be however they want to be. "Effeminate" or the opposite. It really doesn't matter.

[@im.joeyb.]

How is Martien a part of our Dutch identity when the only thing he does is living from his own memes and screaming "Wijnen, wijnen, wijnen" all the time?

[@stephenvanwijk9669]

@@im.joeyb. .... exactly. Know thyself.

[@shootingsportstransparency7461]

Just following your heart never can be wrong, All the best from the Netherlands

[@bramvanderklaauw434]

I really feel for you about your parents... Good for you that your girlfriends family is supportive, love wins!

[@IIxIxIv]

Sadly political support for lgbtq issues in the Netherlands are still lagging, because the Christian parties have been in power for almost 20 years, since that same sex legalization. There's basic support but still a lot of legal battles, especially for intersex and trans people, or gay people who want to adopt.

[@khulhucthulhu9952]

Omg yes how have I never thought of that comeback before? Yes, you haven't met the right guy yet!

[@stars4295]

I am Dutch, but I don't mind at all. Just hold hand everywhere! Be you