Being ‘Too Pretty’ is not a thing.

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[@CamrynSuzanne]

Hey everyone! Thanks for watching today’s video😊 What do you think about pretty privilege “hurts” an artist?

[@KittenzHoarder]

I think it can if the artist is not talented at all, yes it can hurt you. Now take mariah carey for example, she is a great artist, song writer, and all of that, and has earned her flowers through her hard work, she also happens to be pretty but since she is such a good artist, we recognize her for her unique art and not her looks. If you are not talented however, your career is in vain, and you will be lifted up by people due to lust, and not due to the fact that you actually are talented.....Therefore harming you in the end, because you wont be respected ever.

[@Tania-fx4uz]

Looool this is the first time I've heard that being "too pretty" has closed more doors than it's opened in the music industry. If she was an actor I would agree but music? Nah I think people who are saying being that pretty did her dirty are really wondering why being that pretty didn't get her further. The first time I listened to one of her songs I only clicked on the link because I thought she was pretty. I stopped listening before I was halfway through the song because it did nothing for me. It wasn't bad but it was just ok. And ok wasn't enough for me.

[@KittenzHoarder]

@@Tania-fx4uz You proved my point lol, you viewed based on the fact you found her appealing, yet her music was SO TRAYUSH- You had to quit-Do you see what im saying? Yeah they get attention for the looks, but they dont get respect or admiration for their"craft"(lmao, if that's what u wanna call it)

[@SanctuaryPassion]

@CamrynSuzanne I have actually seen this second hand. Someone really needs to do a study on what I like to call the "pretty valley". Much like The uncanny valley, there's a place where being actually too pretty causes a kind of natural disgust, hatred, unwarranted aggression, and unease from LITERAL STRANGERS. This I believe is where Madison falls. Because she genetically and socially, is the archetype of what other already very attractive people try to mold themselves into, and that's BEFORE she applies a heavier look. Don't believe me? Look at the comments on her socials where she has a lighter makeup look. She gets more hate with "no makeup, makeup", than when they can believe her makeup helps her achieve her looks when it's a full beat. It's WILD.

[@carofantastic]

So true, its not about pretty privilege. Its her management team. they are not good at marketing and curating her brand. if she was being managed by Taylor Swift's management team, she would go far. there's a lot of boring artists that are very popular

[@CamrynSuzanne]

Yeah just think there is a major marketing issue here! A lot of that is on her team

[@angel-ik2mc]

exactly my thoughts too! she's already got the talent and looks, she just needs better marketing

[@kiki13451]

Definitely marketing. In the beginning, yeah I think it was jealousy and privilege. I remember when she came out, I was between 10-12 and I remember she dated one of those magcon boys. She was young and pretty and signed by all those guys and obviously being an 11 year old fan I was like LOSER. And then I forgot about her but I randomly thought about her one day and I saw dead by her. A BIG upgrade from the music she first made in my opinion and she sounded a lot better. Now I love her as an artist, her album is good. I haven’t been able to listen to the one she released last year yet but her music is good but I also do think she is boring. When I compare her to someone like Maggie Lindemann (she also became kind of big around the magcon time and dated one of the guys). Her music was originally slow like Madison’s. But she did a rebrand. Is it NEW, no? But she fit into her own sound and pushed herself to grow in that genre she wanted to be in. She’s doing features with big people in that genre. She’s doing good. She did a cover of decode in her extended album that was just released and idk how all that works but if you put a cover out on an ALBUM don’t you have some kind of clearance ? Like that’s big enough for me. Is it paramore? No but as a fan of paramore since childhood and the only artist I’ve ever seen live, I think she did really good. Maggie is in her own lane and flourishing. But Madison idk. I like her music but there is something there that’s just 🤷🏿‍♀️ honestly I didn’t even know she had an album coming out until I clicked her profile to add selfish to a playlist 😂 like why is she not being pushed. Because in my opinion all these girls out now, Sabrina, Olivia, idek who Tate is. But they all sound average to me. Nothing special. No hate but it’s just like 🤷🏿‍♀️ they aren’t special. So why is Madison not big like them because it’s not like all of these people are different. Definitely her team bcuz she isn’t doing anything other stars are doing

[@jade9596]

Frr

[@WiinterKitten]

Taylor has it made without her father having the connections he does, she would not have ever been as famous as she is today 😩

[@fairymystonight1783]

I much rather experience the downs sides of being pretty than the downsides of being ugly 😂

[@CamrynSuzanne]

That part

[@feliznavidad6958]

So your own gender being hostile towards you for no reason and prejudiced to death.

[@GabrielaCenturionNeumann]

​@@feliznavidad6958I mean, the op is choosing between two negatives... Yes, that is the negative side of being pretty in lots of cases

[@neonred7594]

@@feliznavidad6958 You get that even if you're ugly.

[@Fatima-kp8hi]

@@feliznavidad6958this is a stupid take. If it was so bad, why is everyone trying t lose weight and have plastic surgery to get pretty privilege.

[@bekkoucheabdeldjalelmohame6554]

I need some people to realize that not every artist can be a superstar, because y'all forget that a true superstar is like that 1% from the rest , not everyone can be the 1% and that's fine

[@CamrynSuzanne]

This is very true

[@rosecoloredbby]

Yes! Not every artist is going to be at the very top. That's kinda the whole point of being on top, it's extremely exclusive and a very small number of people

[@neonred7594]

Exactly, less then 1% actually, but the point still stands.

[@Rrooosa]

Sad but true

[@sharmindecruz9757]

Facts, there is always going to be superstars and stars. Thats ok

[@amalminou1474]

I remember seeing discourse on Twitter saying that Madison beer isn’t more popular bc women are jealous of her…girl what? The girl has brought nothing new to the table, barely anyone in the industry right now are bringing anything new to the table.

[@CamrynSuzanne]

Yeah I think ppl are too quick to resort to the jealousy aspect (i’m sure that exists to some capacity for someee ppl) but there are ppl that are giving her real critique and valid reasons they’re not clicking with her music and ppl use the jealousy thing too often

[@katgreer6113]

I was going to say this. She won't be rewarded for doing what everyone else is doing. That itself would be pretty privilege. She is talented though, and deserves her accolades. Her voice is great and her songs are catchy. I just don't know why people are expecting her to blow up and become Ariana or Sabrina.

[@shanel4294]

@@CamrynSuzanneit’s my literal pet peeve, not everyone is jealous cause they have critiques 😭

[@ajmosutra7667]

They arent bringing anything new to the table either. They have personality, though

[@Stargirl4lyfe]

the "ur just jealous" is so annoying. Constructive criticism can be given and ppl with just get enraged and attack you.

[@Tobzzzz_]

Madison’s personality comes across as bland. There is a disconnect in her marketing. She should fire her marketing team and hire a fresh one to focus more on developing a curated brand specifically for her

[@Mysteriuminiquitatis1998]

I don’t think it’s just her management team or personality. Aside from her looks, she’s just bland. She can sing and everything but her music is pretty mid. And even if she were to “tap more into her artistry”, It’d probably still not be all that great. I think maybe focusing on other avenues like maybe doing something other than music would work better for her.

[@Cherylmayblii]

⁠​⁠​⁠​⁠@@Mysteriuminiquitatis1998honestly, I definitely see potential in her. Granted her image is currently dull, but Imo I do think that there’s space for improvement and her blossoming into a greater version of herself.

[@kenzieshanea]

i love madison and her music down, but i never felt like pretty privilege was her downfall. i think people still think of her as madison beer… she was discovered by justin bieber, but she’s more known for being a social media star. she really needs to get deeper into her artistry because it’s good and she can sing.

[@JaiProdz]

the grammy nom legitimized her but you are right...she was seen as an influencer which is like a pejorative when "real" artists are around

[@CamrynSuzanne]

This! It gives more insta influencer from the outside.

[@Des17S]

Personally as a person who dosen't listen to her music I think it's because of the memes where she was just blatantly lying and wanted to be relatable but came off as cringe. She wants to fit in too much I think that I feel like I don't see much individuality. I don't see much difference. I don't see much personality and I kind of do just see an insta model who can sing rather than an artist. To be an artist I feel like you need some level of individuality for people to connect. Like her music video where she's at a school in a cute school girl outfit. Seen that 105 times. I don't see her thinking about "How can I take this music video staple and make it different? How can I add my own flare?". I don't think she can do that because she dosen't know herself and that's why we don't know her.

[@graciousmarwisa9496]

This is so true because if people truly listened they’d see she has all the talent she just needs to (like you said) tap deeper into her artistry

[@GirlDo3]

Yeah like I remember her being in David Dobrik vids🤢

[@valliyarnl]

i feel like Sabrina had a similar problem for a while but she did three things: 1. she leveraged the momentum she got after SOUR and came out with emails i cant send which had BANGERS on it (and capitalised on the virality of the nonsense outros) 2. she defined her aesthetic as you said in the video 3. and now she really leans in to the fact that she is beautiful and doesn't try to "play it down" like Madison does, which I think makes Sabrina seem more honest, if that makes sense

[@CamrynSuzanne]

Exactly! Sabrina’s marketing now is so on point. She knows her image, her strengths and she leans into them

[@planetemilyjanet7582]

I don't think sabrina is typically pretty but it's her personality that makes her pretty, she seriously sparkles!

[@disneytoysr4fun975]

Lets be honest, sabrina is not madison pretty she is best friend pretty. Gorgeous face but its a sweet pretty not a sultry siren pretty like madison. Also her body is very regular (short, thick waist, small chest). She has enough flaws to appeal to the insecure girl.

[@valliyarnl]

i think the takes that Sabrina is "not that pretty" are crazy. have you people SEEN HER!?

[@hadrianhexe9603]

@@disneytoysr4fun975 Nah she's definately pretty but it's that, traditional pretty, it's the pretty where you expect her to have an aesthetic like the one she did in the expresso video and that in of itself is a privelege because standards can change and a few remixes can happen, but the traditional blond blue eyed women is the something society will tend to default back too and since Sabrina has it, she's good.

[@diamonddandy8271]

Personally I think she is fine where she at. She don’t need to be any bigger. I’m sure she is living well. I’m sure she well fed and trained. And has decent resources to make music. Which is a thousand times better than what you can say for more talented artist.

[@CamrynSuzanne]

Don’t disagree with that

[@amorelockster1023]

People are forgetting she comes from a well off family I think for someone who didn’t have to work as hard as someone with no industry connections or money she’s ok

[@Saladfork1929]

That bit on “Idk what yall want her to do, be ugly?” LIKE it’s so real 😭… I’m so sorry like what do people want? Do people want her to get Plastic Surgery to become more conventially unattractive or something so she’s relatable like… I just don’t get it. If anything, I think she’s finally learning how to use it with Make You Mine, which is good. She could do something really cool with this horror, sexy, untouchable thing she did in that music video.

[@CamrynSuzanne]

That’s where ppl frustrate me! Bc what do ppl want her to do about that. She’s damned if she does and damned if she doesn’t

[@perfectallycromulent]

it's not relatable to put out videos of yourself in a bikini saying hey world look at me, this is just what i naturally look like. she doesn't have to get ugly, but that's gonna strike many people as an act of a very conceited person.

[@d818581dd]

It's not about being ugly, it's about accepting that her generic social media model look doesn't get people interested.

[@nansiipii9018]

She literally got so many surgeries to get conventionally attractive

[@kaitlynkarol4600]

@@CamrynSuzanne- I imagine you can relate b/c you prob suffer w/ some of this stuff yourself since you're so stunning. You are modest though I can see but you can also relate...and ya know what...it's OK to admit that and have the confidence to admit it in a nice way. But your modesty is respected as well. Great vid btw - you handled this one well. Kudos. :)

[@JasmineBurnett-pd8bz]

I personally like her music, but she should really lean into the 'make you mine' sound for more success or make a sexy, dark and electric album

[@CamrynSuzanne]

Yes I feel like that’s her most sonically interesting song, she sounds very good in that space and it differs from what other main stars are doing rn

[@roxdaphe]

YES

[@borathebrat]

Oh NO

[@UltraViolet666]

Fans are gonna hate me for agreeing, but I have tried checking out her music for years, and nothing stuck until Make You Mine. It never had anything to do with her looks.

[@editaudioaesthetic]

THIS IS FOLLOW THE WHITE RABBIT ERASURE AND I WILL NOT STAND FOR IT!

[@Lalaland099]

She needs to go for the 'Diva' archetype. She's too down to earth, she needs to use her looks to intimidate others. The problem is that she's not giving people want they actually want. They want her to be the diva, the real 'It girl' like 90s glamour supermodel vibes. She's playing the wrong character as she's too pretty to be relatable which in her interviews you can tell she trying to be relatable to her audience like the way Taylor swifts is. She needs to make people aspire to be her not befriend her. She needs to change her image. I also feel like she'll be more successful if she went for acting.

[@yourlocalchristiankid]

ooh definitely!!

[@maxinedolmo7389]

I️ think that’s why when “Make You Mine” music video dropped everyone was cheering. She was giving everyone what we wants. Even if she was jacking from Jennifer’s Body, at least it was a direction, it was something!

[@editaudioaesthetic]

yes to all of this! they want another megan fox.

[@wayomono5507]

What a messed up society we have

[@user-gz9tx6qj5x]

@@wayomono5507 deadass like op suggesting she should change who she is / how she acts as if the ONLY way for her to be successful is to play a character 💀 and the “she’s too pretty to be relatable” and “people need to aspire to be her not befriend her” is do tragic

[@hailywashakie5197]

I think her being taken as an influencer is a big part of the problem since she does hang out and associate with alot of them. I definitely thought she was one at first then was surprised when I found out she made music.

[@CamrynSuzanne]

Yep! People don’t recognize her for the music first but rather as an Instagram influencer

[@Desiree-Laine]

YES.

[@reccyre]

She is perceived as an IG model/influencer who does music on the side as a hobby.

[@indiebish7045]

same here

[@mae64khlo]

I don't know anything about Madison's career, but being too pretty is a thing. In a criminal sociology course, we learned about how attractiveness can affect sentencing. If someone is pretty, ppl generally feel bad for them and don't want to believe that they're guilty. Or at least don't want to punish them too harshly. But it is possible to pass the threshold of attractiveness and be perceived as "too attractive." This villainizes the accused person. Especially if they're a woman. Ppl start to feel resentment towards their prettiness. It's the same reason why Megan Fox felt alienated from the Me Too movement because ppl didn't feel sorry for her when she would share her stories of abuse. Also, in the Angelina Jolie vs. Jennifer Aniston debate. Angelina is never pitied. Even when Brad Pitt was accused of terrible things, ppl still felt like Jolie was the villain. All that to say, maybe ppl do dislike Madison for that reason.

[@CamrynSuzanne]

Mmmm super interesting and I appreciate you for adding this context because I do believe that there’s a level of this happening, I just think in some scenarios people use the “too pretty “ term as a way to pacify actual criticism

[@motaku220]

Right if someone is too prettty people tend to think wow they already have it so well off and assume them a bad person

[@mae64khlo]

@@CamrynSuzanne thanks! I just thought it was fascinating that this video reminded me of that class. I agree that people are ignoring other valid critiques about the state of her career.

[@sarizonana]

@@CamrynSuzanne true and you know what the music and movie industry’s are different animals, in music girls can be attractive and be taken seriously even if their voices are not the best, in film beauty Is more of a course actresses need to uglify themselves to be taken seriously. I think the movie vs music are opposites. In movies men can get away with being attractive more than women but In music it’s men who battle more with being taken seriously while being good looking.

[@perfectallycromulent]

There are similar effects for other extremes, like intelligence or athletic ability. The people who have the reaction tend to be the people who value the quality, and consider themselves to be above average in that quality. Lawyers get edgy around people with PhDs, and PhDs are uncomfortable around MDs. They're seeing a competitor they believe they can't beat, and they react negatively.

[@zoc.6922]

Yeah, it comes down to her marketing & brand. She's known as a social media star, not a pop star. If she had something to grab people's attention (sabrina carpenter with email i can't send coming after SOUR & the drama surrounding that), making good music that sounds specific to her, and a recognizable look. I don't see her performances being promoted. Or her interviews. Those would do a lot for her to show off her personality & artistry.

[@CamrynSuzanne]

Agreed marketing and branding would help tremendously

[@reccyre]

Yeah her music is not specific to her. I heard Make You Mine in some makeup TikTok videos and didn't know it was Madison's song. Only realized it was her close to the time when the music video was coming out.

[@OGseoulite]

I feel like Madison’s biggest issue is she doesn’t have stable fan base, let alone solid demographic to fall back on & market to. Her appeal & promotion is totally directionless & isn’t aimed to a target audience. Her artist is too safe & it’s been an issue I’ve observed for years.

[@CamrynSuzanne]

100%, and that’s why it’s crazy because she’s been around for so long that you would think she’d have a solid base, but she still hasn’t really carved that out. I think she needs to go back to the drawing board.

[@dualnon6643]

I don’t get why people are saying pretty privilege isn’t working for Madison when Pretty privilege IS obviously working for her. There are plenty of less pretty artists with mediocre talent whose names are not in our mouths. But pretty privilege can only get you so far. Pretty privilege can definitely give you a boost, but it doesn’t automatically compensate for all of someone’s deficiencies in other areas. Pretty privilege is like an e-bike vs a push bike. You’ve still gotta do the work but you get a little boost and it’s a little easier to get far.

[@aylergayuno]

Love the analogy, you worded your thoughts perfectly!

[@blueowl3474]

you said all of these things so eloquently and, and i agree with everything. sometimes people just aren't that good/interesting. if anything, the fact that she still came so far in the industry shows that pretty privilege IS working for her

[@DominikZagar]

She is still trying to find her aesthetic, but has a great voice tho

[@hamilcross]

I think her looks hinder her success to a certain degree but if she was more approachable through her personality or had music/aesthetics that really made her stand out, it wouldn't be nearly as big of an issue. everyone knows it's hard to relate to her through her looks so she needs something to latch onto beyond that. I enjoy some of her songs but the lack of identity makes it difficult for me to want to keep up with her. the only pop star imo who's been able to do that schtick is kylie minogue but she's been consistent with her work and has had a strong fanbase for decades which has helped solidify her as a mainstay in pop music, especially outside of the united states. I also think her looks/attitude do somewhat fall on her in terms of her constantly trying to look pretty and being afraid to even emote in an authentic way. she needs to let loose and get outside of her comfort zone if she really wants to see big success. the hair flips, pouting and lip biting get repetitive. that said, maybe she's fine with this level of fame she has and if that's the case, more power to her. not everyone needs to be an ariana or a gaga.

[@CamrynSuzanne]

Yes, that’s the consensus i’m coming to especially in the comments is that it’s more to do with her marketability and her own identity, and that seems to be lacking.

[@aquaaria3489]

Absolutely agree with the personality aspect. The discourse makes me think of Billie Eilish, how she’s conventionally attractive, but not many care because people care more about her music and fans about her personality.

[@larissagomes451]

She feels more like a influencer than a actual singer.

[@fioona7755]

Honestly, I think it is true. But i think its more about the "instagram face" rather than just being really pretty. Most popstars are very beautiful, but they look human. IMO, maddison is just inexorably linked to being an instagram model than a musician, and thats why she has a massive following. ( PS: Im not trying to bring her down or anything, shes gorg. just my opinion )

[@CamrynSuzanne]

Yeah, I’ve seen people articulate this as well. You are not the only one!

[@reccyre]

She gives LA IG model and not artist/singer/musician.

[@3freeet948]

It's actually crazy that you mentioned Tyla there cuz just last night I came across a tweet that blew up where Tyla (long before she got signed) did a cover to one of Madissons songs and literally everyone was thinking the same thing how all these girlies who started doing covers to Madisson ended up surpassing her, billie, tyla, etc.

[@CamrynSuzanne]

I saw that too!! That video surfaced at the perfect time as I was about to do this vid

[@3freeet948]

@@CamrynSuzanne It's even crazier when you realize they are both signed to the same label being Epic.

[@disneytoysr4fun975]

Tyla was able to make it because shes a cute beauty rather than a knockout or sultry beauty. She also wears braids to de-beautify herself. Im not saying braids are unattractive, but globally most people think loose hair is prettier. Tyla’s team knew what they were doing by giving her braids most of the time and then letting her wear her loose mixed textured hair every now and then so she could receive the perfect amount of pretty privilege. Still she needs to be careful. I see some people feeling a type of way about her confidence and cocky attitude. I can see her losing fans if she doesnt find the right balance like Rihanna.

[@asli9812]

@@disneytoysr4fun975wtf did you just say??? 😂😂😂😂😂

[@disneytoysr4fun975]

@@asli9812 where did i lose you?

[@Jay99939999]

Pretty Privilege doesn’t hurt an artist it mostly get them though the door but they need to have substances in their music, style, personality and character for an audience to gravitate towards them and their music.

[@CamrynSuzanne]

Yeah that’s why I was kind of confused because historically pretty privilege has helped, especially in the entertainment industry people get their foot in the door to begin with

[@IvyJames-ru4vj]

@@CamrynSuzanne I mean she still doesn’t have a hit song. I don’t think being pretty is what’s hurting her. She needs a hit song that’s what usually makes artists more popular . Drake continuously makes hit songs even tho Kendrick is a better artist. He has more star quality. I don’t think madison has that . She has more people like her for her looks instead of her music.

[@AmanaAkther-t4m]

Girl you sound so delusional and out of this world, if you knew half of the things the women in this industry went through just because of their faces. ​@@CamrynSuzanne

[@ice_king_15]

she deserves more, she's so underrated

[@CamrynSuzanne]

Yeah, i see such a divide tho! Some people feel like she deserves more, others who think she’s doing just fine and others feel she’s made it too far. It’s a very interesting case

[@Definitelynotabot4]

The truth is i like Maddison's music but she has the wrong aesthetic for the demographic that listens to pop music(mostly women). It worls for Ariana because she is a girly girl type of pretty while Maddison is giving very much ttansformers Megan Fox(which appeals to men) but girl men will follow you on instagram but they are not the ones who will make up your fanbase. I don't think it's her fault i think she needs a better marketing team.

[@CamrynSuzanne]

I saw someone say that she’s marketing to the wrong demographic and that’s men. I thought that was really interesting Maybe that is what’s hindering her as well , the wrong demographic

[@frostyx6171]

I've always felt like Madison just didn't have that "IT" factor, she is talented and she looks great but she is missing that little spark. I feel her story and someone like Pia Mia are very comparable, she also got "discovered" and had important, big relationships within the scene but she never REALLY took off. Pia Mia had some characterestics tho, she had her streetstyle, bandana's, blonde hair but she was less "conventionally" attractive and now she is also more seen as an influencer eventhough she is also very talented. Again, I think it's a lack of identity, direction, spark and also delivery.

[@CamrynSuzanne]

So happy you’re here!!

[@melissaanthonyxb2730]

No being too pretty is a thing and you have it 😔🙏❤️

[@CamrynSuzanne]

Hahha thank you😭 i see what you did there

[@keliancleroux1251]

I love her song « reckless » it was really good and I feel her image could have been more this aesthetic like « cottage core » or idk how to describe it’s really like book aesthetic and it could have been her thing. I really feel she doesn’t have like an aesthetic that people can attach to her.

[@CamrynSuzanne]

Yess the aesthetic is a major issue for her, it’s a lot about branding and marketing

[@nkazi314]

Ok I have some theories before I watch the whole video, but first people need to understand being pretty will never be a hindrance to getting fame. It actually can help propel you instead, so their reasoning doesn't make sense. Let's be honest Madison is a beauty that has been seen before it's not a never-seen-before unconventional beauty, so her being too pretty doesn't make sense. Now on to the reasons I think she's not as popular as her fans would like to be: 1. Music is bland and generic it's not captivating and she is in a genre where the music she makes is in abundance. Nothing is setting her apart. Not the production, not her vocals, not her aesthetic, etc. 2. Her team is not utilizing her following properly and advertising her in a way most of her followers would at the very least check out her music. Cause how many posts are in anyway related to her music? How many of her followers even knows she makes music? Who is her target demographic that would most likely listen to her music and why haven't they made an attempt at curating that? 3. Performances, if she had any, are lack luster. Many artists have seen a rise in popularity when they put on a good show and people catch whiff off it. It can make people who has previously disregarded artists for whatever reasons to check them out. It can make songs that weren't well liked become super popular, and it can create new fans of her music. So if she's not giving engaging performances there's not going to be a lot of traction for her music to begin with. There are so many things that can contribute an artist like Madison not having the fame that was expected of her, and I haven't heard anything about her (though it could also be because I'm more of a R&B, soul, and its sub-genres type of person, but I still hear about pop girls from time to time). At the end of the day pretty privilege didn't do anything to hinder her, cause there was hardly any effort to really launch her and utilize her following. People are just trying to grasp at straws instead of admitting their favorite artists isn't as good as they thought her out to be cause there is Literally nothing systematic that is holding her back.

[@serenas5411]

Facts. Like Dua Lipa was taken 10000% more seriously as a pop artist once she actually put effort into her performances/choreography.

[@hadrianhexe9603]

I'm but i have to disagree. Like with all appearances, it leads to assumptions. Sure it never hindered ability to gain fame but it definately put the obstacle of just being viewed as another pretty face and when people make that assumption about you, it leads to people never even giving you a chance.

[@joywagner979]

Yeah, Madison looks like 99% of young women in Los Angeles do. To be fair, many women in L.A. -- especially white women her age who have any aspirations towards fame -- look like they go to the same plastic surgeons as the Jenners and Hadids. Your eyes kind of glaze over when you've seen it often enough. It's a generic beauty and something someone can just buy, as many of them do, so nothing to be jealous of. Does she have a unique talent or style? That isn't always even enough to set someone apart. Having good representation in the form of agents and other talent management is a big deal, and luck -- being in the right place at the right time -- is almost equally important.

[@amorelockster1023]

I agree with this 100 percent

[@bennyton2560]

@@joywagner979 you hit a good point. She is the "beauty standard" type of beauty, which a lot of people aspire to be, of course, but it also isn't a style that sets her apart😅To be the beauty standard which appeals to a common denominator audience can be mistaken for "jealousy" i guess.

[@serenas5411]

I’ve been a fan of Madison Beer since back when she did livestreams on YouNow back in the day. I’ve noticed that when she does covers of songs (like on piano or randomly on the mic) she is such a great singer! However when it comes to her albums, I only like a few of the songs. So basically the talent is for sure there but I think during production in the studio it kinda gets lost, she should do more stripped back music maybe.

[@CamrynSuzanne]

Thanks for adding this perspective!

[@sarizonana]

Or why not trying to find great songwriters,? not everyone is a singer/song writer some artists are just singers like Whitney Houston. Get her Desmond Child and Max Martin and probably she will turn into a hit. Maybe the problem is that she hasn’t found her sound.

[@solus8685]

How do people both associate beauty with friendliness AND with someone "looking like a bully"??? That's what's confusing me, as someone who got bullied.. By very average looking people

[@kaaygoldmine]

I like Madison and I’m rooting for her. I lovedddd her As She Pleases project. People do project when it comes to her, they assume she’s mean or stuck up bc of her appearance and idgi because she actually seems super sweet. I saw someone say that they couldn’t identify with her because she “looks too perfect all the time” and I just thought that was insane. Has rihanna or janet jackson ever had this problem? It’s so weird. But I also can see the flip side of it because there ARE soooo many talented women that struggle to break into the entertainment business because they aren’t “attractive” enough. So I guess this is just a turning of tides.

[@lilimuyunda5030]

I agree that being pretty isn't the only reason some people aren't as successful as they could be...but I don't think that it's completely unfounded....it's a factor. Some people genuinely don't like people because they are pretty....and also, it might be that once it's brought up, the way she reacts to it might also be off-putting to some...as she might not take kindly to people mistreating her simply because of how she looks. Some people genuinely are less respected because of stereotypes attached to prettiness...and that's just how society is right now. As for Madison, the way people at one point would blame her for being a bad influence because they don't look like her was unnecessary and took attention away from her music. It became the bigger discussion and she was "labeled". (Some did participate in this. I don't believe in simply blaming celebrities for beauty standards. They don't have to be our role models. I know it's easy to blame them because they seem to be everywhere and shoved in our faces, but we can truly turn away it hurts us that bad. Imagine meeting someone in real life who looks exactly like the celebrities who are blamed for creating insecurities...naturally....what would happen then? Because people like that exist in real life.) Otherwise.... Madison's career being like this isn't only down to being hated because she is pretty. It's also marketing and it's also how she presents herself in a more influencer manner, I think. But yeah! This is so long. I wonder if anyone will manage to read it. 😭😂🎀

[@CamrynSuzanne]

This was very thorough! And I followed what you were saying. I definitely don’t deny that the pretty part is an aspect that is at play but I agree , her marketing has fallen short. It’s something with her team idk, maybe she just doesn’t connect as an artist for ppl but rather more as an instagram influencer

[@lilimuyunda5030]

@@CamrynSuzanne thank you for reading it all and giving me your thoughts! 🥺🫶🏽 Personally, I think Madison may also be a bit guarded...(Not to say that other singers aren't...but I think they might have even the illusion of a connection with the people they "make music for". I don't feel like Madison, personally at least, had that....perhaps she doesn't cater to the parasocial relationship aspect that takes a lot of people to greater heights. Perhaps more people don't feel, even more with also how "unattainable" they may view her, that she gives off anything they can relate to. Or perhaps she hasn't had a big big hit yet. I think also the way she came up didn't seem entirely genuine. (There's lore behind that too) Hopefully, she finds a way to be herself, if that's not the case right now and people who like her for her will be her audience. That's the best an artist can be.

[@joelprince4170]

​@@lilimuyunda5030 she kinda reminds me of meaghan fox not so much in terms of looking alike but thier Beauty. People can't stop talking about thier looks and sex appeal.

[@alien-hs1zn]

@@joelprince4170exactly her looks overshadow her music

[@joelprince4170]

@@alien-hs1zn which is abit ironic because they are plenty other good looking pop stars Ariana grande Billie Elish and sabrina carpenter. All of them are Beautiful. I think with madsion it's mostly her not having the right team and marking behind her not her being pretty. It's a requirement for people to be good looking in hollywood

[@rat-x7x]

Life support had songs that could have been hits though like Baby and Selfish ateeee. ALSO, I think her label screws her over and it's kind of sad.

[@CamrynSuzanne]

I think Baby could’ve been a hit, idk what happened

[@nvrrtmnty]

i'm so glad someone decided to talk about this topic. I love madison's "life support" album, honestly, I feel like the singles were chosen very badly, because for example "baby" or "boyshit" didn't represent at all what the vibe was about. Why hasn't Madison succeeded that much in music? On the one hand, i'd say it's because of her "persona". She was caught up lying or something like that (i dont really remember) plus she had some questionable behaviours. On the other hand, i feel like her career was very poorly managed and she didn't have the appropiate handling, like stablishing your style and stucking with an audience. Anyways, that's just my opinion

[@iamReptar]

I heard her career died when she got a DUI

[@dreamypriorities]

@@iamReptarshe did???

[@tyrus7526]

and historically, prettiness has been associated with being “mean”

[@CamrynSuzanne]

This is true especially in entertainment and media

[@lasantuzza777]

one of the greatest gaslights of all time because we all know it’s the girls who are jealous of the beautiful women that are the meanest and most devious

[@valliyarnl]

babe wake up! Camryn uploaded another banger of a video!!

[@CamrynSuzanne]

😊😊😊

[@quintonstorm]

You are so well spoken & balanced… love to see it!

[@Talia778]

It’s also so ok to not be a main pop girl. So many artist aren’t the top 1% but that doesn’t mean they aren’t making great art! People are too obsessed with numbers. But I think there is so much value in the smaller creators.

[@oliviajayward]

her life support album is definitely her best album and that’s why it did the best in sales

[@ashareeuniquee]

I think that people are more shallow than they think and are just saying negative things and trying to attribute them to her looks. Like I remember when that live of her talking about how she looks came out and people were projecting and saying that she was basically complaining about nothing when in actuality she was complaining about how unfair it is that people will just look at her appearance and say that she's promoting negative things and the reasons for some peoples body issues. I think from that very moment some people have shown how they can't have meaningful conversations around her or her music because of how easy they misinterpret things due to their projections and insecurities. I don't think that her looks are why her music isn't blowing up, maybe she just needs more time to develop and grow into a popstar and she'll wow us all later idk.

[@obehiikhigbonoaremen1241]

@ashreeuniquee, I agree WHOLEHEARTEDLY! People like to project onto people they are jealous of and I believe people want to blame Madison for their own insecurities.

[@ashareeuniquee]

@@obehiikhigbonoaremen1241 I genuinely thought that I was going mad because of how popular it was for people to just project on her. BRING BACK CRITICAL THINKING🗣️‼️

[@shishiro5691]

I love how your videos are able to be listened to even without looking at the screen! I'll try to watch other channels like yours but miss a lot of information because they'll show some on the screen thru text that I don't see because my phone is in my pocket while I listen. Keep it up!!!

[@tenebae1999]

Ive been a fan of madison, and specifically her music, for years now, and I genuinely see the critiques of her not really having an identity, because sonically and aesthetically I dont think she knows who she is yet. I really do long to see her find herself through her music in her next few projects and wish that people, including some of her fans, could see her lack of success or improving success (because frankly her career is very successful so far) not solely as a product of her physical beauty.

[@tenebae1999]

I will add that I absolutely love her music and find her lyrics heartbreakingly beautiful and I can really see her succeeding if she finds the proper aesthetic (both in style of music and look) to match her songwriting

[@lovelya4641]

She needs to hire sabrina carpenter's team. She should be a main pop girl, she is a great singer! she is very beautiful but so are other artists so...

[@CamrynSuzanne]

Yeah bc Sabrina and her team are absolutely crushing it rn

[@noidea5927]

Honestly, I can't even add anything to this topic cause for me it was so different when i discovered her. It happened somewhere in 2019 exactly through her music. I hadn't known until this March that she used to be an influencer or this story with Justin. So everytime when I think about her case it is hard to understand what is wrong cause I connected to her music first and her as Madison Beer second.

[@CamrynSuzanne]

Exactly, that’s why I wanted to do this video because it’s so interesting to me and also slightly confusing

[@rosecoloredbby]

Yeah, first impressions are def super important too. I'm basically the opposite of you, I remember way back when when the whole justin thing was going on and, not really being into him in the first place, I never paid much attention to either of them, and madison was kinda just one of those pretty girls for me. I didn't even know she made music until maybe last year ? but i didn't listen and i still haven't now because personally i just don't see why i would. Maybe if i didn't already have an image of her and i discovered her last year I'd be listening to some of her songs now, because i know a lot of the youtubers i follow like her.

[@toyamongard5808]

You’ve definitely earned my subscription. I genuinely enjoy watching your trendy yet thought provoking content. Thank you ❤

[@v.xien.]

Oh to be so beautiful that people hate you for it, I wish I had that problem

[@b1j0ux42]

I think its actually because People found out she was an industry plant. Justin bieber already knew her prior to “finding her video” and needed an excuse to blow her up. Idk the details but apparently her mom got her foot in the door. Shes pretty and maybe talented but definitely not talented beyond the average star, her bland personality and above average looks for men isn’t working for everyone. Rather than jealousy or “pretty privilege” shes kinda just boring, shes stayed relevant because of her looks and comparisons to megan fox. I havent seen her do anything really impressive or groundbreaking. Also wether or not she wants to admit shes ever done anything to her face, shes DEFINITELY had lip fillers even just from looking at her previous photos. Its fine to get work done but lying about it isnt great and doesn’t make people gravitate to you. Maybe if she was better at promoting or being relatable she could capture a wider audience.

[@CamrynSuzanne]

Oooh really??😳😳😳 i didn’t dig deep enough.

[@kalakings3358]

I honestly don't think she got lip fillers but that could be me 🤷🏿‍♀️

[@idk_a_plant]

she did say she had lip fillers when she was younger but regrets it now and they've dissolved

[@iamReptar]

Being lied to about plastic surgery, would make me question.. what else have I been lied about?

[@amorelockster1023]

Also it’s clear that she’s had more than just lip fillers but that’s her business not ours. I remember she also got backlash from a lot of people for being a “fake activist”. Around the time when people were rioting and going to protest she was caught basically doing a photo shoot to post on social media about being a ally for BLM it was all so weird. A lot of of influencers got caught doing the same thing.

[@audreyurquhart9057]

I think one of the main reasons people have a distaste for Madison is due to her beauty being the main (really only) marketed thing about her. For all I know she’s an interesting girl but her branding is mediocre at best. In a day and age where influencers and celebrities alike rise to fame solely because of their looks, longevity requires a lasting artistic identity. I think the lack of unique branding means you’re almost seen as a vessel, and not an artist. On another not your content is insane as always and you’re looking stunnin xx

[@TNDRAV]

She’s boring and artistically silent

[@CamrynSuzanne]

I definitely understand why people see her music as boring

[@joelleb-rv8hq]

I like a couple of her songs but I have to agree with you, there just isn’t a lot about her music that is really memorable or sticks out, same with her personality and overall aesthetic.

[@DavidGoveiaa]

Personally, I disagree with some things you’ve said. You have to read Madison’s book to understand her. I’ve read it and got to experience talking to Madison at a soundcheck Q&A. She’s done her best to defend herself through all these accusations, but at some point, she’s going to have to ignore them. I believe her artistry is beautiful and reflects who she is as a person and an artist. I believe she is creative and draws inspiration from past artistic creations that are well respected. She has a great voice as well. I do think that she could reinforce her artistic image to make a more distinct mark on who Madison Beer is. I also believe she could work on stage presence and performances. On the other hand, she’s also gone through a lot, as she came into this industry very young, and it has traumatized her. She’s really just now starting to find out who she is as an artist. She’s also mentioned that she is diagnosed with bipolar disorder, which is probably why she struggles to find a consistent image for her “brand.” She is only on her second album! I believe she has the capability to grow exponentially if she keeps persisting. Madison is not necessarily an artist who cares for streams or popularity; she sticks true to her artistic vision and won’t compromise that for the sake of popularity, which is something she’s learned from the trauma she experienced at a young age in the entertainment industry. I also don’t believe “pretty privilege” is hurting her-that’s just how she looks and chooses to present herself; that’s her aesthetic. Maybe one day she will change it, who knows? Madison is truly a misunderstood artist, and I hope we all can grow to understand her more and appreciate her art. In the end, she is doing just fine and selling out venues with 4,000-plus attendance.

[@soomiij]

took the words out of my mouth. she’s one of my fav artists lyrically n sonically. she deserves sm more n im gonna root for her forever.

[@אדרקויפמן]

Sameeee​@@soomiij

[@skinnyrat4277]

maybe thats the issue though here with her marketing. We shouldnt need extra material to understand her ideally, it should come through in her music and branding

[@callmeluna07]

Can we just enjoy the music and not care about the fame and stuff. When your fav artist isn’t famous you guys say oh they’re so underrated and overhyping them and stuff but when they get famous you guys suddenly turn into haters or doubters of their music (a small percent)

[@Rayaann]

Her pretty privilege has absolutely propelled her and will continue to advantage her, she’s already got that boost but the issue is her awful management and promotion. But yes, pretty privilege absolutely plays a huge part in the industry and is unfairly advantageous 😭❤️

[@NC-ej5nt]

I’ve thought about this for so long and I completely agree with the idea that her “type” of pretty reads like a mean girl to the general public (even though she may be totally nice). I think that if she is interested in a broader stardom, she should try the character route. If people think that she is a mean girl, the character of Madison Beer should be THEE mean girl. The As She Pleases EP had her playing into it a lil bit (like a bad b* vibe), and I think if she elevated that and aged it up a bit to match her age now, she could be a lot bigger. Her song writing is clearly heavily influenced by feelings of sadness and heartbreak, but I think if she turned on an alter ego persona, she may be able to pull off a full turn around.

[@FaiaHalo]

You NEVER miss!! I keep learning with your videos 🎉❤

[@alithelady3479]

💯

[@CamrynSuzanne]

Thank you🫶🏽🥹

[@certainly25]

I get your points and I know music is subjective but I just think the music critic isn’t really fair since some of the people you listed give very generic music😭 Sabrina, Tate, Olivia, etc. I honestly think she just doesn’t make the type of music that will be that marketable. Like she usually only has like one or two songs on an album that sounds like it would be on the radio. But I also do understand how people might perceive her through your points.

[@CamrynSuzanne]

That’s fair, bc some of the newer girls could be considered to make generic music but i think it goes back to her aesthetic, image and marketing, i think those other singers have more carefully crafted and image that’s resonating with ppl more, it’s more defining

[@certainly25]

@@CamrynSuzanne yeah I definitely see that too. I saw on Twitter where she actually was really annoyed because her team wouldn’t promote her right and she basically had to pay for one of her videos all on her own because they didn’t believe in it. And Reckless became one of her most known songs which is the crazy part.

[@tyrus7526]

well what’s interesting is that people seem to think she’s only an influencer/social media model, yet on her instagram, all she ever posts about is her music. it’s not like she’s hiding the fact that she makes music. like her whole feed is about her tour right now

[@TreyGarlic-mr7ut]

Her music needs to be captivating and good periodt. She needs to find her signature sound

[@miguelbm2935]

She makes great music idk how yall can't see that

[@amorelockster1023]

It’s ok in my opinion

[@Ghallygirl]

You’re right but , the music that she brings to the table is not new. It’s not something refreshing that the western media is discovering like with Tyla’s sound. Not everyone can be a superstar even if you’re talented. She’s stuck in the box because her aesthetic and sound are not unique to her and have been overused. Her marketing team is also to blame to be honest.

[@Starlov2rz]

​@gigi09091 Music taste is subjective. It is influenced by personal experiences, emotions, . What sounds melodious and captivating to one person might not resonate with someone else. This subjectivity is what makes music so fascinating and diverse In fact, one thing we can use a good measure is - if there was any kind of "perfect" music which included all of the objective "good qualities", it would already have been defined and would exist, and everyone would slavishly write and like that. But, the sheer diversity of musical tastes and styles out there tell you that's not the case. So it means you have no right to tell if someone's music is good or bad as a fact, it's just your opinion and I'm not even fan of her but her top music "Reckless" "Make you mine" was catchy as a pop music

[@happyleggo9904]

I honestly agree after listening to her new album. I haven't listened to her older stuff, so I don't know her entire discography very well, but her new album has a lot of good songs with nice vocals and pleasant sounding chord progressions. Edit: I especially likes the title track "spinnin" and "envy the leaves"

[@Janet67498]

I agree, and her career is doing good right now. People want her to be a superstar, but everyone can’t be a top artist. It’s better to have a solid fanbase base anyway.

[@hayleynhassan]

Great job Camryn! Have you ever considered law school? I think you would make a fantastic lawyer and we need good lawyers now more than ever! Let me know if you ever want to chat about it.

[@CamrynSuzanne]

Thank you for this!!🥹🥹🥹 I also never considered law, I do love learning and I enjoyed college but being a lawyer takes a lot of years of schooling, idk if I can go back😭

[@kylabrice5439]

I remember there was a Korean show for trainees where there was and audience vote and off they pass them the judges vote if they are good enough. There was 2 girl that were supper talented but because they didn’t fit the beauty standard, they didn’t pass the audience vote. I feel like for women being conventionally attractive is very important in the industry. There was another group of girl that were talentless but where beautiful and they passed the audience vote. The judges were shocked.

[@LisaLee__]

I promise you, I thought she was a TikToker. Had absolutely no idea she sang. That's on her marketing team, period. And all of you with pretty privilege, please please please take complete advantage of it. Talking from personal experience and from what I continue to see in the looks based industry that I work in: your looks will inevitably change either because it no longer represents the looks of the decade you're in or maybe you just won't be able to compete with the girls in their 20s anymore, etc etc. ❤ 35 baddie is different from a 25 baddie and that's OK. You can use your beauty to your benefit, so own it and do it.

[@victoriab637]

The fact that she's still being discussed despite having barely any hits or relevancy outside of influencer circles indicate that pretty privilege is indeed NOT failing her. People want pretty people to be an oppressed class SO BADLY and its weird! Not everyone that fits the bill can be a superstar and that's okay. Madison isn't owed superstardom based on her looks alone, people need to get over it already. She's successful in her own right, that shouldn't be understated.

[@whoevr]

i like ur point on artists having an authentic fashion or aesthetic. it seems like madison has found hers since the life support era. it’s the bow, the ballerina look! but casually, she will mix sexy and baggy / comfy clothes!

[@nikitamalisevs3639]

I'm rooting for Madison and like some of her songs, but I highly agree with you, her material just don't have this power to become a hit. Her new song 'Make You Mine' I didn't enjoy, her singing is too 'Lanish' for such a dance record. I also understand people who find her unrelatable, and I think it's more connected with controversies about her than with her appearance, she became 'problematic' earlier than really popular, and it can really ruin a career

[@alithelady3479]

No lashing here! I didn’t know much about her. I bought one of her makeup palettes because I liked the colors. I didn’t know who she was. Then I kept seeing her name mentioned in the comments on some of your previous videos. Thanks for info. Love your creativity & connection to your subscribers.

[@CamrynSuzanne]

Thanks for sharing!!

[@pinkedout.]

Her sophomore album is how I learned about her. I don’t follow her on any socials but I do listen to that album a lot. I think it’s great and way better than her debut imo… the problem I think lies in the fact that her image is: maneater, siren, unattainable… yet she tries to, at the same time come off relatable. Like she wants to be both, does that make sense? Her trying to be two opposite types breaks the “fantasy” which leads to creating a disconnect. She’s ambivalent and one thing people hate in stardom is ambivalence. Specially with her caricature, which is usually associated with being confident and sure of oneself, a person with her caricature wouldn’t be going online to try convince people she hasn’t gotten work done, etc. I know she’s a person and is complex and has many sides to her, but at the end of the day to be a pop star is to sell a “fantasy”. The quicker she accepts that fact, the quicker she’ll rise. She’s going to be perceived. She needs to be okay with that, lean into it til a point where she’s big enough that, she out grows it and can then showcase whatever she wants.

[@3rdWorldGirl93]

being too pretty is definitely a thing, its just that people don't always know how to articulate what they mean when they say it, for some its this that you have described, the good looks but not enough uniqueness of character/artistry, to others its the negative feelings the persons beauty stirs up in them which causes them to be disliked, to some its stereotypes of assuming a certain kind of attractiveness looks easy or unbelievable - basically the lack or relatability resulting in a disconnect etc etc before this video, i couldnt have pointed at who she is because of her lack of identifiable imaging, i knew her name and saw headlines about her every now and then but literallly couldnt have recognised her, i see now and she is like a tanned, brown eyed Megan Fox, i loved Megan because of her personality and the seemingly offbrand (from the sexy persona) comments she'd make in interviews, everything from talking about how she couldnt have sex with someone she didnt love (am 31 now and us Christian or whater religion adjacent folks were raised to have this as an oath almost), being casual about the fact that her outfits and styling was all manufactured by a team (i mean we knew this but it was still the era when celebs had to act like they just happened to be that ay, jus happened to look that way etc), playing into the sexy persona when being interviewed for men's magazines, that she didnt have friends and was always indoors (all hail introverts nowadays lol we introverts werent out there admitting this so easily that time lol), that she once wanted to "save" a stripper etc... i (or we, her longtime fans) knew the Megan that spoke of herself being just like any normal and sometimes even awkward girl growing up in a world that only cares that you be attractive and all, but the general public disregarded her and focussed on how hot she was, dont get me wrong, i liked that part of her too but it wasnt all she was, when the me too era came along and the women's magazines that had been being mean to her coz she was apparently the always sexy, lives for the male gaze pick me girl that we were being told fellow women shouldn't dare like were starting to acknowledge how messed up their view of her was, i was there saying well duh, we been knowing this. in relation to Madison here, it seems its the same thing, except there doesnt seem to be much of an authentic self being presented to the world, she might not want to be an oversharing kind of artist but there needed to have been something else that people could connect with. her issue doesn't seem to be relatability since we are in an age when people looooooove influencers they cant relate to either, i think her issue is believability and yeah, its not her fault...but her team could rectify this, she could steer away from defending herself so much to simply finding common ground with those that follow her and building something that has a unique touch, she's still young enough to reinvent her artistry/fandom, i hope she sticks around

[@kaaygoldmine]

I have actually seen ppl say they can’t identify with her because she looks “too perfect” all the time. I thought that was insane but on the flip side I feel like there’s so many ppl that wouldn’t make it because they’re “unattractive” so I guess this is really just a turn of tides.

[@CamrynSuzanne]

Yeah that’s why this convo is so interesting to me because usually it’s the other way around

[@nightmeowonelmstreet215]

Ngl i always judged madison at first and thought she was boring and looked fake like a mean girl, but seeing and watching her interviews more after seeing make you mine and getting interested i do relate w her, that’s why i think her music isn’t making the mainstream headlines until make you mine happened. cause it’s a reference to megan fox 2000’s etc but back then she was just like sabrina carpenter not having their own brand and isn’t like the other celebs because she’s relatable and most celebs aren’t. her facial features make other people jealous too which is why i think people hate her for no reason and are just bitter.

[@mackiahluxen]

It's definitely a thing. I'm having the exact same problem as a guy doing music. The thing is with looking beyond what people would normally consider to be attractive, you're seen a bit differently. People assume you have it all and even if you don't they chalk it up to "well. you already have enough" and it doesn't matter whether your songs or voice is better than the biggest artist, the person on the other end would just simply prefer to hear it from someone who doesn't make them feel inferior. Despite it being completely unintentional on both ends.

[@angelblue52]

FINALLY SOMEONE SAID IT like I hate this false narrative that Madison Beer has, that her beauty hinders her. This is why I have such a love/hate parasocial relationship w her as a person. Like I really love her music and cutesy aesthetic. But sometimes what she says is so inaccurate, like girl Im sorry but you would not be getting alll that plastic surgery if you thought looks would be a disadvantage to your career. She contradicts herself so much. Also I think where she went wrong was she didn't make an effort to become an A list status cause she was spending too much time with influencers which hurt her image like made her more of a D list celebrity. A lot of people have also said her perfectionistic image isn't relatable and I agree with that like it tends to lack character for people. We like messy and unhinged feminine art and archetypes like Marina and the Diamonds or how some people like Lana Del Rey, Melanie Martinez, etc.

[@yourfavoriteoompaloompa139]

U said it’s a “false narrative” that her “beauty hinder her” but the next paragraph admitted “A lot of people have also said her perfectionist is image isn’t relatable” because it’s “tends to lack character”? Your contradicted your own statement. Not coming for you instead calling out the fault in your statement

[@angelblue52]

@@yourfavoriteoompaloompa139 beauty and perfection are two different things darling. Perfection in a sense of lack of emotion and relatability. She's not raw, real, or genuine. And always seems to have a facade. There's a lack of personality in her art. That's why she is failing, not cause she's pretty.

[@nqobileyolanda2361]

Exactly !!! I watched the spinning video and it's like even when she's trying to convey sadness she still wants to look pretty and get the right angles, she has no rawness, no personality, nothing that makes her stand out​@@angelblue52

[@entersomerandomusername]

I really enjoy your channel! Your commentary is really thoughtful and covers interesting topics and issues. Thank you for your time and effort in creating this content. I’m very appreciative ☺️

[@CamrynSuzanne]

Thank you so much 🫶🏽🫶🏽🫶🏽

[@michime7860]

Madison Beer is so underrated ugh I love her brain and vocals so much😭😭😭😭😭😭😭 I was so shocked after checking her mvs and seeing very less views than I expected... She honestly deserves more credit❤

[@vampiraleah]

Same thing with Dove Cameron in my opinion

[@americwan]

i think u said this in ur "pop music is dead." video that we should give these girls a chance & something, we can either wait for her to improve or give advice for her music. there is literally no reason for the unnecessary hate people get, like atleast give advice that could help these girls too improve

[@CamrynSuzanne]

That’s true but people look at madison a bit differently because she’s been around for sooo long, she’s not really new

[@hadrianhexe9603]

I have to disagree. Yes, people will use 'you're just jealous as an excuse' but it doesn't change the fact that it is something that happens. When you look like the standard, you get privilege, but when society realizes that you have privilege, resentment forms and it leads to people refusing to take her serious, she's said it before, she's made songs pouring her heart out and the only thing people will focus on is her looks.

[@LarissaMejia-fh9gj]

Honestly her best work is Life Support. And I think it is very relatable, the production is so good, the voice, the lyrics everything is so good. Selfish is genuinely her best song, I think it deserves so much more hype Also she has STRUGGLED with her mental health. I think Dear Society, stay numb and carry on, and homesick really capture it really well

[@ImThatChickYaLike]

This may be unpopular, but I also find the concept of someone being "too pretty to be relatable" is only applicable in white spaces mostly? Her audience is mostly white, young women. Relatability and seeming like the girl next door is praised more often (ie, Taylor Swift and her "every girl goes through these things" type of music, Sabrina Carpenter known for being quirky), but in other spaces, people aren't threatened by that. In fact, most of the time, being the girl who COULD steal your man is praised and even talked about in songs, like a Meg The Stallion or a Beyonce. A woman like Tyla who is insanely beautiful can be in the spotlight and black people aren't saying "she's too pretty for me to like her"? I think the too pretty thing is just a cop out and she's just kind of.... boring.

[@CamrynSuzanne]

Wheww a word!! I never thought of it like this but you are absolutely onto something, this in itself would be such an interesting video topic

[@eventplanner461]

Sabrina Carpenter was not the girl next door type. Maybe in her early Disney era, but if we remember the drama that happened with the release of Olivia Rodrigo's Driver's License, she was labeled as the girl who stole someone's man(wrongfully). If anything, Sabrina Carpenter is a great example of using both pretty privileged and viral moments to your advantage to propel your music. From Nonsense, to Feather, to now Expresso. "I don't relate to desperation" is peak I'm that girl. The problem with Madison Beer is she has viral moments but she's not capitalizing on it. There's no such thing as too pretty. I've listened to Madison Beer's music and she has talent. However, her music is just not sticking.

[@skinnyrat4277]

@@eventplanner461 yeah I agree. A lot of people are labelling Sabrina as like a girl next door when she really has always been someone ive known for being super out of our league pretty. I guess her recent branding has just worked that well lol, because ur so right about how she was framed in the Driver's License drama...wayyy different to how she is treated now

[@IlikepurpleXP]

I agree! I’ve noticed this only ever becomes an issue in other spaces if the person is gorgeous but doesn’t actually have talent/star power. I’ve never seen a beautiful artist and felt “threatened” by them to the point where I didn’t want to support them.

[@mauve9266]

@@eventplanner461 I think there’s also just something so refreshing about Sabrina being like I’m cute and everyone’s ✨obsessed with me ✨ Sm pop music today is these beautiful obscenely wealthy, Uber successful people discussing the downsides of fame and their lives and how anxious they are and how neurotic it makes them which is completely fine and justified and I’m sure it’s all true but it’s refreshing to see someone whose just rlly hot and confident and like life is kind of great sometimes. It’s a much needed balance.

[@prettyfrog4176]

Well i don’t think Madison being too pretty is necessarily her only downfall but i also don’t disregard it because most people are not going to take her seriously cause she just look like a typical pretty tiktokers which is a privilege if u want to become a popular tiktoker or influencer or to be a model because you only do the bar minimum however when it comes to pop music if you see the most successful musicians their look is not the primary factor of their success for example look at lady gaga , kesha , P!nk , kelly clarkson , michael jackson , prince , david bowie , doja cat , Lorde , withney huston , charli xcx , beyonce ….. and many more im not saying they are ugly they all look gorgeous in thier own way but when u look at them thier music and talent comes before the way they look

[@sarizonana]

The music industry is mostly about finding the right sound for you and getting great songs. More than image or voice is about making great songs people feel a connection to them. Having songs easy to recognize. In both pop and Rock and finding that sound can be hard. Bon Jovi and Aerosmith took them till their third album to finally break in the industry

[@jackielaurens]

If that was true, explain Ariana’s success. She’s been visually compared to Madison at times and she’s a more talented vocalist too. Why didn’t jealousy impact her? This narrative that women are so insecure that they tear each other down is just misogyny tbh. I’m awed by Beyoncé’s and Ariana’s talent and beauty. Their success has inspired me to purse my dream career. Powerful women open doors for the next powerful women, the ones who were inspired by them not ones who were intimidated. There just seems to be more insecure girls because they got the time to tear others down. Most girls are busy building themselves to be next up.

[@iamReptar]

I feel like the next people to go down or get exposed is jay z or beyonce or usher.. at this point the entire hollywood industry. The K Klan isnt safe either. These “idols” are nothing but frauds and a joke. Absolutely nothing to look up to. I pray for you and your success though. Be YOU ✨💖

[@jewelthompson4210]

I think Saweetie has this same issue, but in the black community among black women.

[@CamrynSuzanne]

Yesss i mentioned her towards the end of the video

[@wueeure]

Im sorry but before this video , I truly believed she was just an influencer who jumped in to the music scene after becoming popular 😭

[@Slm99]

I don't think it's her looks or her talent because the girl has both. What holds her back is her lack of good songs; honestly, it takes time for a singer to blow up. Look at Sabrina, Dua, Lizzo, Doja, and so many examples. To gain mainstream success, she needs marketing and hit songs that would guide her in developing her musicality because those are the things she is missing.

[@gabbiwisteria]

Idk about her looks holding back her career bc I think her management is the main problem, but I do remember that most of the criticism she got (in general) was that she was promoting unrealistic beauty standards by just existing. And a lot of her other “controversies” were also blown out of proportion and the ppl who were doing it were giving Jealousy. I have noticed that some other very beautiful young celebrities also got this treatment (Megan fox, Marilyn). I understand that some ppl are trying to say that she is not an amazing or unique performer and therefore her lack of success is not unusual but I’m talking about the sheer amount of unwarranted hate that she got. She really didn’t do anything to deserve it and I 100% think it was due to Jealousy.

[@AJ-dj4lj]

I believe it‘s because of her denial about her plastic surgery, her face and body isn‘t recognizeable anymore which is really sad, because she was always beautiful and didnt needed it in the first place

[@אדרקויפמן]

Life Support for me it's a masterpiece. Some songs does sound like Ariana or Billie could have sing them, but she had this clever writing and cinematic sounds that felt unique to her. Also she really pour her heart out into this record. Silence Between Songs had such a messy rollout - She released the first single which was very raw and personal, in june 2021, 2 singles in 2022 and the fourth single that was extremely different and was way more dark and femme fatale, then she released the album cover and it also was in this femme fatale asthetic, so I thought this is the lead single and that she decided to scrap the other songs. Then she changed the cover like you said, and dropped a sad and raw single, and all this era was extremely confusing. It could've been so much better if she would've stick to something instead of trying to do both. Also that was the time when she released Make You Mine, which couldn't be more different then her last record. Still I feel like she has so much potential, and I really interest in what's next for her.

[@Funnytumesusually]

Wow love the variety of topics on your channel! New fan of this channel and happy to be hereeeeee.😁 I love your voice! I am primarily an audio listener☺️

[@CamrynSuzanne]

So glad i can give the variety!! Thank you for subscribing 🫶🏽🫶🏽🫶🏽

[@Funnytumesusually]

🫶🫶 - Idea- female hip hop beefs have gotten game of thrones level - I could definitely use a break down of who and why the beefs!

[@krystalssweetjourney2152]

I thought Madison Beer was a self proclamed insta model until like 2 months ago 😭

[@matthewreyes9640]

I just saw Madison live two days ago actually. Shes an amazing performer and can captivate a crowd, sounds amazing live, and i do love her music. I think, like many people do, that he issue is that shes not standing out like other artists do. If you look at artists like Gaga, Taylor, Ariana, Katy, Billie, etc. They all have very specific traits about them that make them recognizable. Gaga is camp and "weird" in her aesthetic, Ariana has a very recognizable sillohette and sound, Billie carved her own sound from her debut, and Taylor has the relatability and is considered the best songwriter alive today. I think Madison needs to find her own sound AND her own brand. A new management team is desperately needed.

[@CamrynSuzanne]

Yess, she just needs something to help her stand out more, that gives her definition!

[@rosecoloredbby]

What a coincidence this video showed up on my feed just at the right time! Madisons coming to my city tonight for her spinnin tour! Funny, hehe

[@CamrynSuzanne]

Hope you enjoy!!

[@holymadeline]

I think that her saying "it's my natural lips, i literally look like that! People accuse me of plastic surgery yada yada yada" it's what made people don't like her. She claims to be all natural while having several plastic surgeries. That's why young women are so insecure. I saw many girls on pintrest being like "oh I wish I was pretty like Maddison" not knowing she lies about her natural look. (Sorry for my English it's not my first language)

[@DominikZagar]

She only did a lip filler … but agree with you, when person is doing the opposite, people are not seeing her as honest as she thinks she might be

[@holymadeline]

@DominikZagar Not only lip filler. She had jaw work, eyebrow lift, eye lift, face lift, lip filler and fillers in general. Professional plastic surgeons make videos in which they talk about plastic surgeries that celebrities had. I really recommend to watch, turns out if you have money you can be pretty 💁‍♀️✨️

[@TowerThatAtePeople]

@@holymadeline learn about source criticism. A plastic surgeon speculating someone has had plastic surgery is just trying to sell their practice to you. And more often than not people claiming to be experts are just your run of the mill social media charlatans. She hasn't had jaw work, hasn't had an eyebrow lift, nor an eye list, nor a face lift. It's very easy to verify this if you just look into what she's looked like over the years, she's been in the spotlight since she was a child, obviously if she had something so drastic done her looks would change. But she looks nearly identical to how she did in her teens apart from her lips. She has had silicone injected into her upper lip and lip fillers, but of course no plastic surgeon or claiming to be one (usually they're not practicing surgeons because why would you be bad mouthing people on social media if you had a job that didn't require you to do so) speculating has ever realized she had that done to her upper lip because they're just speculating, they don't know and you claiming they do is more than they even claim themselves.

[@holymadeline]

@@TowerThatAtePeople I actually looked at her pictures over the years and in my (and not only mine) opinion she had some work done. Of course she will look similar over the years, it's not like she made completely new face. In fact, good plastic surgery should be subtle to still uphold this natural look. I agree on your point with surgeons tho, I'm aware that this people are often just promoting their clinics and stuff.

[@TowerThatAtePeople]

@@holymadeline it's just funny because she's so transparent about how she achieves her look, she's talked about lip filler, she's talked about the silicone injection into her upper lip, she's shown how she overlines her lips to achieve the look, her lips look drastically different with makeup and without. She's shown how she laminates her brows, yet of course you can't believe it's anything but surgery because of course everything has to be, she simply can't look like that. Which is also pretty funny, because she doesn't look 'like that' all the time, another thing she keeps bringing up. Look at candids when she's just up and about.

[@Aeunax123]

Madison is a weird case imo. I hadn’t heard of her at all before her song “Dead” and “Home With You” - I remember thinking I found this new artist and shared her songs with my friend and she was like “ewwwww you like Madison Beer? She’s so fake”. I was confused af and then she told me about her whole backstory to that point (mostly being linked to Justin back when any girl linked with Justin would get HATED on for just being in his vicinity), and it feels like a lot of that just stuck on her and then morphed into other things. A lot of that fanbase Justin had at the time would be overlapping with Madison’s market, and it almost feels like bc so many people grew up at the time not liking her, it just stuck. And then because her music generally isnt very memorable it feels almost like now that people have moved on from the Justin stuff, this is a new level of confirmation bias for why they don’t like her. And I’m not even a super fan (or really even a fan tbh), I only have 4 songs saved by her in my music library, but I’ve just seen this discourse on the internet for so many years and it truly just feels like she can’t escape it for whatever reason. I kinda feel for her but at the same time I get it

[@rachelsbehavior]

Not you reading my mind camryn 😆I literally was talking about this yesterday.

[@ortiz.milagross]

I'm a bit late to the conversation, but I think there are many factors to consider (for context, I listen to her music, I really like it, and I do think she has potential/should be more popular, but I started listening to her around 2021, so I don't know all the "lore" about her). I believe she had a somewhat rough start, because she was criticised bc people think (i have no idea if this is real or not) that the Justin Bieber discovering her is a lie. Also, in my opinion, her being discovered so young played a big part in the public thinking that "she can't sing" (i felt like that discourse was missing in the video, but i really liked the points you made), because she hadn't had time to grow as much vocally or as an artist in general. As for now, i really think that her voice and control are pretty great, I would go as far as to say that she might be a better performer (vocally) than many other more popular artists (which i think is why fans, including me, wish she was more popular). Of course, I wouldn't say she's better that Ariana Grande for instance (not trying to compare, I love them both, but it's just to give an example). But people still talk about her like she is just a pretty girl with no talent, which is not true. She can sing, she writes her own songs, and even directs or produces many of her music videos. Of course pretty privilege has helped her get to where she is now, but I believe that because of that, the general public seems to ignore that she actually has more to offer, which she has. Something that I heard on another video, which I think may be true as well, is that she does seem to be very aware of the way that she looks all the time, and seems to be scared of breaking out of that. What I mean by this is that in her music videos, or when she's performing live, it seems (from the outside, at least) that she is scared to look ugly even in the slightest, all her movements seem well thought of, so it doesn't come off as genuine as, let's say, Olivia Rodrigo (she was the example given by the same video I talked about earlier), who is more likely to play into the character created by her songs. To add to that, yeah, she isn't as relatable (besides in her lyrics) in the physical aspect (I won't really get into the plastic surgery or not debate), and she doesn't seem to be very extraverted like, say, Sabrina Carpenter (btw I think they would make a great collab), so that plays against her in my opinion. On another note, I will admit that maybe her style of music is maybe not for everyone, she tends to do more ballads, which I love, but I guess are not the most marketable or radio friendly. But she still has some upbeat songs, which could reach a broader audience. I'm glad that make you mine was kind of trending. Some marketing changes would help too i guess, but basically our (or at least, my) greatest frustration regarding this topic is people saying she's just pretty and has no talent when that's not the case. Of course whether you like her songs or not is subjective, she might not be the most innovative, but she does have talent. Sorry for this super long comment, nice video💕 Edit: I am not saying that she hasn't had it easier that others who don't fit at all in the beauty standards, don't get me wrong. Her look have helped her come so far, but I do believe that they also have (maybe indirectly) restricted her, or the public's perception of her to some degree.

[@AlexandraTaylor-px5nd]

I %100 agree with you on that:]

[@malcomalexander6927]

No merit at all. I’ve only heard the most recent song from her but I think her issue is a lack of originality. I’m not to sure, but it seems like her management hasn’t really worked to establish a unique brand for her. Yes other artist can benefits from pretty privilege but the industry is become so saturated with pretty faces that all sing the same kind of songs. There’s no uniqueness. This isn’t the 90’s where a pretty face was backed by very unique producers, songwriters and an eclectic ensemble of industry powerplayers. Nowadays the industry just CRANKS THEM OUT. Madison Beer seems like the type that actually lost creativity and authenticity with her rise to fame.

[@CamrynSuzanne]

Yeah, that’s what I’m gathering from a lot of these comments that she doesn’t have a lot of defining characteristics that show itself in her image image and her music and today that is so important to stand out among the millions of other artists who have platforms

[@malcomalexander6927]

@@CamrynSuzanne Eggs-zactly!

[@keithives6721]

I think we have reached a point similar to what it was like in the industry before the internet. You know, when youtube started and being 'discovered' online began to be a thing, it was actually quite easy because it was new. Nowadays, there is much competition even to be a singer ON Tiktok. Because everybody else is doing it too. I think you have to grow as an artist and create a brand, a signature of your own BEFORE you get "discovered" by the masses. Bc otherwise you can make a video or a song go viral, but people are going to forget you because you don't stand out as an artist. And its not just about being a good singer or songwriter. Its a lot of things combined. Chappell Roan, for example. She was already really good, but she didn't have the qualities that make her unique back then (the hair, the humorous and witty songwriting, the yodel-like technique that gives her a nostalgic Cyndi Lauper 80's vibe). Madison Beer's music is kinda bland (well done, but forgetable, honestly) and her voice technique is great, but it resembles ariana grande too much (as she doesn't put her own twist to it) and people are going to forget her because WE ALREADY HAVE A ARIANA GRANDE. Ariana, on the other hand, used to be a little compared to Mariah Carey, but she created a brand for herself and is exploring her voice more. I think that's what she needs to do.

[@henrystreet6152]

I didn’t know Madison Beer had such a social media following. Maybe if she can’t truly get to the level she and her fans want her to reach in pop, she should just capitalize on those looks and get into modeling or something. If she isn’t already doing this

[@g_factking]

No matter what if a woman is pretty people will spend money on her. Madison music may be failing but because she looks good people are going to spend money on her. Sabrina carpenter is a good example. Shes ok but not great. But cause she looks good shes surviving. All you got to be is pretty

[@sarizonana]

Or seriously make a great product outside music like perfumes, I had no freaking clue who was Sabrina carpenter till I started to hear a lot about how amazing was her perfume sweet tooth and I did love her perfume, now I finally checked her song expreso which is pretty good. But seriously release a perfume and boom it’s almost a guarantee will give her notoriety. My mom loved Ariana Grande perfumes always ask me what does she sing show her a song of her and forgets it but always has Ariana Grande in her thoughts thanks to her perfumes. She knows Ariana is a big pop star though forgets what she sings but has her in her mind because my mom loves Ariana’s perfumes hehe. Perfumes are a good promotional product.

[@Janet67498]

I like Madison’s music. I see people calling her boring, but some people are just reserved, and everyone can’t be a top artist.