Belgium: Not a Fake Country

[@alessandroboccalatte8120]

Everyone talks about France and the Netherlands annexing Belgium, noone talks about Belgium annexing the Netherlands and France

[@jeannebouwman1970]

Finally making the Netherlands and France Catholic again!

[@jonaw.2153]

The true heirs of the Frankish empire!?!?

[@Gliese380]

Considering that Charlemagne, Charles V, the Merovingians, Charles Martel, The Salian Franks that created France, Clovis, etc were all from the area that is now Belgium, we sure do have more right to any de jure claims on their countries than any of them do to Belgium.

[@Sophiedorian0535]

Belgian here. Why would we want to annex countries we already fully control?

[@belgianlegion]

I do 👀🤣🇧🇪

[@FeHearts]

If one uses the argument that Belgian history did not exist before 1830 then using that same logic one can claim that Belgium is older than both Italy & Germany who were only unified in 1871.

[@FragLord]

That's because you make the classical mistake of mixing the history of a nation and the history of it's people(s)... To clarify: The history of Belgium starts in 1830... Like any newfound nation, it's history starts at it's independence... The history of the Belgian people (which is much more diverse and complex than it sounds) has many branches that come together and split throughout history.

[@monophthalmos9633]

Gemany wasn't "only unified in 1871", the first German Empire existed for centuries until 1806 and even in the 65 years without Germany being legally one, there was still the German Confederation.

[@BellBeakerBloke]

@@FragLordthe history of the “Belgian people” begins in 1830, whereas the history of Italians and Germans begins over a thousand years ago.

[@BellBeakerBloke]

@@monophthalmos9633the Kingdom of Germany existed 1000 years ago

[@FragLord]

@@BellBeakerBloke I specifically said people(s). Meaning the main different cultural groups. Belgium wasn't an uninhabited wasteland before it became a nation state... Liege for example existed for about 600 years until Napoleon destroyed it. It was never under Habsburg control, yet it was part of the HRE and also it was a bishopric... That part of the history is the history of the Belgian people, not of the Belgian nation... This is the partial history of the Walloons in and around Liege. Meaning Belgian history as a nation starts in 1830. The history of it's people(s) is very diverse and branching and much older. The Flemish, Brabantians, Liege, Walloons all have a different history. This collection of people's will one day will make the make-up of Belgium. These are the precursor states of Belgium. So that part of history is not national Belgian history. But history of the Belgian people... Learn the difference edgelord

[@AgentSmeeth]

Thank you AM for weaving together all of this history, I knew most of this as individual points but never would have combined them to make this argument.

[@ApostolicMajesty]

Thank you so much ❤‍🔥

[@roelipilami]

We always seem to forget that the (unfortunate) Iconoclasm and uprising against Spain actually started in the county of Flanders and the duchy of Brabant (i.e. at the court in Brussels), and that it spread from there throughout the other regions of The Low Countries, with Amsterdam actually oppressing the revolution and new ideologies as the last city in Holland. Eventually during the war with Spain, partly due to the geographic nature of the region (water!), the Northern Low Countries (i.e. present-day The Netherlands) withstood the Spanish and became the only lands freed from Spanish rule. After Antwerp, the economic capital of the Low Countries, fell in 1585, most of its talented inhabitants all fled to the north, taking all of their know-how, craftsmen, scientists and painters with them, and so instigated the Golden Age of Holland.

[@virginie7752]

Belgium artificial ? I remind that Belgium is the only country in Europe which has had the same name for more than 2000 years. Caesar in his opus "The Gallic War" cites the Belgians as being the bravest, i.e. the toughest. I was born in the oldest town in Belgium "Tongeren" and on the main square of the town we have the statue of our illustrious hero "Ambiorix" from the tribe of Eburons who shriveled no less than 7 Roman legions and he was never never captured. The etymology of Belgian is from the Celtic “bhelgh” to swell, to be furious.. The name of my village where I grew up means orchard of pears in Celtic. The Flemish dialects, particularly those of the Province of Limburg, are extremely close to Celtic. We Belgians learn from birth to put things into perspective with our proud neighbors who each believe themselves to be the Kings of the world. Someone should warn Mr Farage that the majority of ethnic English people in the south of England have Belgian origins according to the latest genetic tests carried out. They are Belgians who crossed the channel of Roman times and a second flight when Constantine decreed Christianity the official religion of the Roman Empire. These Belgians crossed the Channel so as not to suffer the persecution of the Christians as well as the Jews who had at that time received the right to capture and enslave any pagan person. I'm still waiting for an official apology from them for what they did to the Belgian people...but apparently they only remember what suits them. I suppose Mr Farage supports the Zionist colony of Israel, which is populated by people from Eastern Europe? If he is looking for an artificial state I cordially advise him to sweep his own door on the British culpability of creating artificial states in the Middle East. If speaking several languages ​​in a country means being an artificial country then the panoply of countries would therefore be in this artificial logic. The Helvetians (Swiss) will appreciate this logic, as well as the French who speak a multitude of different dialects on their territory, not to mention the African countries which have a multitude of languages ​​in each country, or even in Iran, China or Russia, etc etc. .... Thank you very much for your very interesting video.

[@DaHitch]

The region (Gaul) Belgica having existed for a long time does not mean Belgium has had this name for over 2000 years. You can't have a name if you don't exist and the nation of Belgium (and thus its name) did not come into being until 1830. Every Belgian knows about the myth of Ambiorix. But as it turns out there is an extremely high likelihood it is exactly just that, a myth. There is no historical evidence of any kind to support the claim that Ambiorix ever existed. But it does fit in quite nicely with the Belgian narrative of sticking it to the man at every opportunity. "Nie neute, nie pleuje", etc. Farage needs to go get f*cked.

[@The.world.has.gone.crazy...]

@@virginie7752 "Belgen" waar u in u betoog over praat waren een stam, geen echte bevolking laat staan een land. Ze waren idd een groep van Galliërs. De reden dat de Romeinse leiders zeiden dat de Belgen de dapperste waren was vooral om sterk te staan bij hun eigen bevolking omdat ze qua veldslag overwinningen toen heel zwak scoorde.

[@Chase19898]

​@@The.world.has.gone.crazy... Inderdaad, Caesars boek "Commentarii de Bello Gallico" was voornamelijk een lofzang over z'n eigen overwinningen. Dat is waar die zin z'n oorsprong kent, toch?

[@The.world.has.gone.crazy...]

@@Chase19898 Als ik me goed herinner wel ja. Het is tenslotte al een hele poos geleden dat ik nog geschiedenisles volgde. 😁

[@AndreasScout]

Dont forget that after William the conqueror took over England, wales and scotland in the 11th century there was a mass exodus of skilled labor from the Belgian regions of Ghent , Bruges, Antwerp, Ypres ( Ieper) and so on from 1080 to around 1300s ( weavers, potters and the like, industry people both men and women) at request of the new English kings. For example the name Farage originated in Belgium, old dutch/old french for ferryman in dialect if memory serves. LOVE Belgium, such a rich history... dont get me started on the food scene.. or i will get hungry hehe. Love the Limburg pies

[@callo6149]

The reason for the surge of regionalism (Flemish nationalism) in the 20th century has more to do with Universal suffrage, mistreatment during WWI and the democratization of secondary and higher education than it has to do with end of neutrality or loss of control of the catholic church. The average Fleming just became more educated and got fed up with French dominance he came in contact with. It's ironic to say that Catholicism held Belgium together, the entire Flemish movement was educated in Catholic 'colleges' and many of the early crucial figures were lower clergy. Flemish nationalism was until 1954 a Catholic movement, not liberal or socialist. After WWII even the higher clergy turned against French dominance (see split of University of Leuven). I think Flemish nationalists have been ineffective in giving a nuanced picture of their struggle to the outside world. To this day foreign journalists or historians use French sources over Flemish sources when they write about Belgian history or politics. From a Flemish point of view, the creation of Belgium is nothing more than a return to the Austrian Netherlands for a small elite. When you look at Belgian nation building that was pushed in Flanders after 1830 and in 1914 it was not done based on some fake collective identity, like neutrality, Catholicism or compromise, but rather on medieval Flemish history and anti-French sentiment. Flanders was split twice from the Netherlands first in 1585 and later in 1830 both by foreign powers, both equally disastrous.

[@angelmon6]

@@callo6149 as a Flemish your correct... Don't forget the protestants the Spaniards slayed...

[@kettelbe]

Also flemish natio are full on racists.

[@theomartin872]

As a walloon (french speaking belgian) I think that you are presenting it in a biased way. Until independence from the Netherlands, it was the walloon who were discriminated by the Dutch speaking elite. Similarly, the flemish were not mistreated during world War 1 but rather betrayed belgium by trying to snag independence through collaboration with the Germans. Economically speaking, while Flanders in modern times is right to complain about wallonia being supported by them; it was the other way around during industrialization, the industry rich wallonia complained about having to support Flanders. Just to be clear, I am not saying that the flemish have no reasons to complain, but when they do some of them have the tendency to manipulate history or relate facts only from their perspective.

[@roelantverhoeven371]

the french speaking elite were not always walloon either... the elite everywhere prefered french, keep in mind many walloons stil had their own regional languages in the 1800's (as did most of france)

[@kristof6472]

​@@angelmon6 oh come on, the catholic flemish nobility was full on on the spanish side.

[@vorynrosethorn903]

What this told me isn't that Belgium is real, but that Switzerland isn't.

[@timdusen1187]

@@vorynrosethorn903 who are the Swiss most like surrounding them?

[@ZemanTheMighty]

Definitely the Germans ​@@timdusen1187

[@Briselance]

Switzerland, not real? 😅 Well, many a rich bank-account owner will disagree. And, since we'll get there anyway, the Germans knew better than to probe the Swiss defences too much during the 2nd WW.

[@Impaled_Onion-thatsmine]

Some yemenese architecture ? They came and built a church right infront of you.

[@fowchiiiliedpuppiesdied]

Sounds fair.

[@tdreadnats]

thank you so much for putting this one together, some of the comments were perhaps too Belgian to realise that they were intended to be funny or too loving of Belgium to realise. i suspect most if not all of us were baffled on one hand a foreigner was willing to do this much research into it and on the other hand the éloquence and objective perspective you provided that is rare for people in the Benelux to ever realise .

[@Ciech_mate]

Hey, I learned a lot from this. It also reaffermed a lot for me too. It is actually really handy to my personal research rn as well!!

[@thegentlemanfish7504]

Thank you for this AM. I have been avidly studying the Burgundian state for years now, so the Benelux countries have been of particular interest.

[@Alexandre-Marius-Jacob]

I blame the TV documentary "Apocalypse : Première Guerre Mondiale" who states that Belgium was created as a tamper state after the Napoleonic Wars to contain France and Prussia, thus completely confusing Belgium with the Dutch Kingdom. I can hear the exact same sentence even from Belgians themselve, it's so fucking sad. We have one of the oldest constitution in Europe, most certainly the most copied and we were a liberal republic based on human rights theory even before France, tho it only lasted 1 year (United States of Belgium, 1790).

[@pompom8315]

The United States of Belgium certainly weren't a liberal republic. It was brought about by the common effort of Statists (conservatives) and Vonckists (liberals) but all the real power was detained by the feudal estates of the Statists and the Vonckists were quickly purged. The real liberal republic in Belgium at that time was the Liège Republic.

[@johnnotrealname8168]

First and I am so happy I caught the stream and was able to ask about old Belgium. Lovely stuff as usual your Apostolic Majesty!

[@albertarthurparsnips5141]

Ethno-nationalism meant little to nothing to a monolingual Gaelic-speaking farmer from Limerick, or a Cretan herder. Their Catholic & Orthodox faiths, respectively , defined them in relief against their Anglican & Sunni overlords.

[@GigaNietzsche]

@@albertarthurparsnips5141 Nationalism (Nationalism is inherently ethnic/racial) has always meant something to everyone across the spectrum from farmer to general. As that is ones people and in turn one's own blood. Blood will always hold a people together far more than proposition.

[@free_boiling4502]

​@@GigaNietzsche Based

[@courtilz1012]

Possibly nationalism was generated by the decline of religion as the dominant political and social force so this may be true. Marcel Gauchet makes this argument in his formidable series 'The Advent of Democracy' and the prequel 'The Disenchantment of the World'.

[@courtilz1012]

Worth adding to my above comment that Gauchet considers the ancestor cults of hunger gatherers and then early paganism as religion in its purest or strongest form, when it is a question of its social and political power.

[@Ulfbarnen]

Bedankt

[@FragLord]

I think most people want to say it's an artificial country. A nation birthed out of 19th century geo-politics. Without the French intervention the Dutch would've easily subdued the rebellion.

[@tuckerbugeater]

we know who controls all sides

[@mrlakkie1612]

@@tuckerbugeater _\

[@sfjuhispst8144]

@@tuckerbugeater Alright buddy, as if nothing in this world could happen without the involvement of nefarious organizations working in the shadows. I hate these reductive lies that make it seem like the world is some kind of a pre-determined stage play.

[@theeccentrictripper3863]

@@sfjuhispst8144 If it isn't their paranoid delusions turn to ashes in their hands, this is why they repeat the phrase "Nothing Ever Happens" as one would a religious mantra.

[@dragoken1616]

The rebellion was about religious freedom though, not about seperation... so yeah

[@daanvancauwenberge9676]

As a political philosopher from Belgian (Flanders to be precise) I found this a really interesting outsider view of our country. Reflections on Belgium by outsiders is rare - let alone people as well informed as you seem to be. There are three recent developments in Belgium that I think, however, you eithef skipped or minimised. I think those are crucial to understand the history of our country in the last century. I’ll focus on four topics: 1) The ideological reallignement of Flemish nationalism (Flamingantism as we call it) 2) The importance of class politics 3) Post-coloniality and the monarchy 4) Internationalism FLEMISH NATIONALISM What is important to understand about Flemish nationalism is that it has become ideologically more ‘narrow’ in the last century. In the 19th century it was an (often inconsistent) mix of romantic nationalism and class politics. Our bourgeoisie was French, so it was easy class tensions to become ‘linguistic.’ Basically every family has stories of ancestors being denied jobs, being discriminated against based on language or being punished in school for speaking Dutch. However, in reality those were conflicts with local (French speaking) elites, not Walloons or Brusselois people. Those contradictions were able to exist within the movement, as was common around that time. A truly crucial thing to understand Belgian contemporary politics is that major leaders within Flemish nationalism colaborated with the German occupiers during both world wars. This let to a ‘purification’ of Flemish nationalism as an ideology. Liberal and left-wing Flemish nationalists left the movement to join the Ressistance, while those who remained radicalised towards the right. After the war it took a long time for Flemish nationalists to lift the stain of Nazism. They created veteran groups (of colaborators), which often acted as echo chambers for radicalisation. They also avoided party politics for two decades and often supported the Christian democrats (who dominated the Flemish side of politics in the 20th century). A large Flemish nationalist party did eventually emerge (the VU), which was nominally ideologically diverse but in practice tended to be right-wing. This led to the party splitting into three different parties: the far-right Vlaams Belang (with politics similar to Le Pen in France), the right-wing N-VA (styled after the British Conservative Party) and the left-liberal Spirit (Styled qfter Tony Blaire and Bill Clinton). The last one quickly failed, but N-VA and Vlaams Belang dominate our politics. The dominance of N-VA and Vlaams Belang often leads foreign observers to predict the fall of our country. However, there success is linked more to their right-wing politics. They are similar to Le Pen, Trump or Baudet in their politics. There are no right-wing Belgian parties of important size who aren’t Flemish nationalists. Furthermore, polls show Flemish independance actually isn’t that popular and is an issue of declining importance amongst the younger generations. N-VA also hasn’t really attempted any moves towards independance. I would argue seperatism is more the language of the Flemish far-right, more than it is a concrete policy goal. There are no seperatists in wallonia of note, neither are there left-wing seperatists in Flanders.

[@daanvancauwenberge9676]

CLASS POLITICS It’s also hard to understand the importance of class politics to explain Belgian politics. We were some of the first to industrialise on a large scale and due to our high population density, Belgians felt the issues with capitalism faster than most. It’s no coincidence Marx wrote the Communist Mannifesto in Brussels. And as I pointed out earlier, Flemish nationalism is drenched in class antagonism. However, what characterizes Belgian history is not radical socialism, but the role it played in social democracy. Our Worker’s Party earlier than most of its European cousins tried to identify itself as a project of ‘social democracy’ as opposed to marxism or socialism. Belgium was a frontrunner in many innovations in the creation of a welfare state and union politics. Our unions are still waaay stronger than those of many of our neighbouring countries and have a surprisingly young demographic. However, our unions are also less radical and more embedded in the state. Especially in Wallonia, the unions and social democrats still reign supreme (although this seems to be changing in recent years). Wallonia also lacks a far-right party, Rex was the last succesfull one. Again, this is a European anomaly. As an aside, it’s also interesting to study figures like Hendrik de Man, a pre-WWII social democrat who tried to make a fusion of fascism and social democracy. Many contemporary marxist theorists, like Gramsci, wrote a lot about his project.

[@daanvancauwenberge9676]

POST-COLONIALITY AND THE MONARCHY Belgians also have a rather unique relation to their former colonies. Many of our neighbours (France, UK, Netherlands) have a tendency to identify more with their nation and therefore deny the colonial horrors of their state. In my experience, Belgians have less issue identifying our colonial history as undeniable terror. However, Belgians also tend to distance themselves from colonialism. Congo is seen as a ‘project of Leopold II’ and the blame is put wholly on the monarchy. They have become scapegoats for our own colonial mistakes.

[@daanvancauwenberge9676]

INTERNATIONALISM I liked your analysis of Belgian neutrality, but I think this has to be placed in the context of Belgian internationalism. Belgians don’t tend to be proud of their country. To the extent there is a unified feeling amongst Belgians, it’s the awareness we all share of how small and unimportant we are (whether this is a correct analysis is not really important). This leads to a sort of envy/fascination with other countries. Almost all Belgians speak multiple languages and have an interest in other countries. We watch a large amount of foreign films, are interested in foreign politics and will often question every foreigner we meet with thousands of questions about their culture. We also don’t expect anyone to be interested in us in the same way. That’s part of the reason I found your video such an interesting exercise. I think this leads us to be very open to supra-nationalist projects, whether it’s NATO or the EU. I think this still characterizes us a lot, more than does our neutrality (which I believe was merely a historic expression of this deeper feeling).

[@jaro551]

@@daanvancauwenberge9676 I'm not sure how to phrase my question, but I can relate with Belgian internationalism. I've been interested in the anthropology, history, etc of other countries, but since I came into contact with many foreigners I realised I don't know anything about Belgium. I can never answer questions about Belgian culture. We don't really claim much as ours, we don't teach it and we don't spread our culture. We just live our lives, but it started to get annoying when people keep saying our country is fake, we have no culture. If you mention something as being part of Belgian culture it is always wrong. They will tell you it belongs to some other country and what not. It's also as if many foreigners don't want to grant us anything or acknowledge us, just because we aren't so arrogant about it. "Yeah, Belgian chocolate is good, but Swiss is better.", "Yeah, your beer is good, but German and Austrian beer is better.". If they say Heineken is good I'm trippin. So I assume you know a little bit of anthropology regarding Belgium. My question is, is there a Belgian culture? If so, what is it? Why don't we present our culture to the outside world? Should we?

[@Jimmyhoffa_1234]

The stain of nazism?

[@gaelamerijckx]

In case you don't think Belgium has its own history, google Leopold II and find out what this guy did... Belgium has done many things, such as providing 3000 tons of uranium out of the 3500 tons required during the manhattan project, helping the USA end the war with Japan. Also, the first steam vehicle was made by the Belgian Ferdinand Verbiest in 1672 when he was missionary in China.

[@KD-cg9iq]

And the invention of the internal combustion engine, where would the world be today without that ....

[@dragoken1616]

Freon (fridges), Pennicilin, were a part of the creation of the internet (female Belgian even). Flemish people have alway been at the forefront of innovation

[@FragLord]

@@dragoken1616 The history of artificial refrigeration began when Scottish professor William Cullen designed a small refrigerating machine in 1755. Cullen used a pump to create a partial vacuum over a container of diethyl ether, which then boiled, absorbing heat from the surrounding air. The experiment even created a small amount of ice, but had no practical application at that time.

[@KonyCurrentYear]

1:24 Oh my goodness A.M how did you not get that joke

[@caelum8831]

AM doesn't know about Belgian waffles very sad 😢

[@mjpspit]

All countries are somewhat artificial. Most of the comments are opinions. Belgium do exist, get on with it.

[@fowchiiiliedpuppiesdied]

Aw shucks. I mean, life would be pretty boring if we all “got on with it”, however.

[@RainBird88x]

I feel it has been around long enough to count as a real country.

[@BellBeakerBloke]

That’s not what a country is

[@jaro551]

That's not how you measure its realness...

[@planets9102]

@@jaro551 As a Belgian I am Belgian. Not French or Dutch, Belgian. If you poll us on whether to join France or the Netherlands it'll yield no. We fought a war in 1830 to leave the Dutch. Just because our country doesn't engage in the overt dumb nationalism that you Anglos engage in doesn't make this place fake. Next WK football ride through our streets and then tell me with a straight face that we're secretly French or Dutch.

[@jaro551]

@@planets9102 I'm Belgian... Clearly we are a country not because we have been here for what he "feels like is long enough", but for very other reasons. I don't think you agree with the first person's comment, so I don't understand where you're coming from.

[@planets9102]

@@jaro551 Im sorry I thought you were agreeing with the other guy in that we aren't real and that the endurance of Belgium has no part in that.

[@Sophiedorian0535]

Belgian retired teacher here. Excellent work, young man! ❤

[@The.world.has.gone.crazy...]

Je ziet er veel te jong uit om gepensioneerd te zijn. 😊

[@Sophiedorian0535]

@ In het echt zie ik er oud genoeg uit, hoor. Ik ben gewoon te ijdel om mijn profielfoto te vervangen.

[@The.world.has.gone.crazy...]

@Sophiedorian0535 😁 Je bent tenminste eerlijk, dat is op zich al een zeer mooie eigenschap.

[@Sophiedorian0535]

@ Het is een soort van ziekte. Ik ben een pathologische waarheidzegster. Ik kan écht wel liegen, hoor. Maar niet voordat ik duidelijk gesteld heb dat hetgeen ik op het punt sta te zeggen dikke vette bullshit zal zijn. 😝

[@kennethadler7380]

Jij bent een Vlaming en geen Belg

[@DeChrisvanMechelen]

First of all I am a "Mecheleir", Born in Mechelen, once the Capital of the Netherlands. Mechelen has always been a "heerlijkheid" a city privately owned and ruled by a Lord. Most pure Mecheleirs couldn't care less to be Dutch,French,Belgian or whatever. I am a Mecheleir above anything else. ❤

[@fowchiiiliedpuppiesdied]

Damn good fries there too…

[@jaro551]

I didn't expect to see so many stupid comments. No wonder you had to make an almost 3h video explaining why Belgium isn't fake. I've yet to watch the video, might just be a waste of time. Edit: It's worth a watch. Very interesting.

[@fowchiiiliedpuppiesdied]

You are superior, intellectually to the rest of us, we apologize for forcing you to tolerate us. Apologies, Ma Lord.

[@roelantverhoeven371]

antwerp louvain and limburg also belonged to lotharingia, flanders (the county) did not... Godfrey of Bouillon was the margrave of Antwerp, people tend to forget that, and his retinue on the crusade comprized of Antwerp men, especially the sailor's guild was very enthusiastic to join.

[@kevinleecaster2698]

Terrific presentation of a lot of history in a short lecture with perspective, thanks.

[@jonaw.2153]

So, I actually viewed (part of) the livestream and have yet to watch the video in its entirety (it's long and I already know I'm going to agree with the points made by you) but I'd like to say that I know this is an interesting watch. For one to claim Belgium isn't real and should just be split among the Netherlands and France is to entirely dismiss what the Belgian people actually want. The Flemish don't want to be Dutch, they want to be Flemish. The Walloons don't want to be French, they want to be Walloon. Being Belgian allows both of those groups to be the groups they are. A shared history, including the Flemish holiday of the 11th of july in which both Flemish and Walloons fought side-by-side to combat the French. These are the kinds of things people just completely ignore when they simply repeat "Belgium isn't a real country because it doesn't have its own language and it consists of two groups smashed together." Is the US not a real country? Is Switzerland not a real country? What about Russia? Bosnia and Herzegovina? What about the United Kingdom? Belgium existed as an idea long before Belgium existed as a state. Belgium is not just the result of a few great powers willing it into existence. It has history, both good and bad. History under different crowns, differing amounts of autonomy, different peoples even. From the Romans, the Franks, the Burgundians, the Austrians, the Spanish, the French, and the Dutch, Belgium has always remained. The Flemish and Walloons might hate each other sometimes, but they are united in their shared hatred for the alternatives around them. Despite existing for almost 200 years in a kingdom that some claim has been "slapped together", it has not seen bloodshed between the two groups. Much the same can't be said for Yugoslavia, Russia, the UK, the US, Austria, and indeed most countries with different ethnic groups. Indeed, this has never been an issue for the area of Belgium, despite living together for many more years. The coat of paint has been changed around a good couple of times, but it's always been the same Belgium. L'Union fait la force. Eendracht maakt macht. Einigkeit macht stark. Concordia res parvae crescunt.

[@laurentfranco8075]

Belgium has been there since Roman times. Smack in the middle of Western Europe. The divide between Northern- and Southern Western Europe. Caesar acknowledged this. A mixed breed of Gauls, Germans and Celts.

[@kalkisrevenge4841]

You can now add blacks & arabs into the mix of the "breed"

[@Gliese380]

​@@kalkisrevenge4841+ loads of Eastern and Southern Europeans, South Americans, South Asians, Chinese, etc... and lately an increasing number of (North) Americans. We receive way more immigrants than just Africans and Middle-Easterners, and the fastest growing immigrant group in Belgium are... Romanians, believe it or not.

[@salimelmouaffaq1351]

​@@Gliese380 B- but they're brown! /s

[@FragLord]

After Caesar left the area all the tribes were killed, enslaved, fled or were exterminated.

[@FragLord]

wrong Walloons and Flemish are a mix of Germans and Romanized Celts. The vast majority of the original Belgae tribes were killed, fled, exterminated and/or enslaved by Caesar. The Franks, which originated in the low countries, were a Germanic tribe. Those who moved/invaded to France would make modern day France. Those who stayed were called the Salian Franks. They would evolve in the Dutch, Flemish and Walloon regions. Note that those regions are and were still very diverse. I'm just simplifying here... The French Franks would adopt a Romanized culture and language, the Walloons too but to a lesser extend. The Northern Salian Franks would evolve into the Dutch and Flemish "as we know" and would keep their Germanic language. The Franks, French, Belgians and Dutch all come from the same tribe. The Franks. The French just stole the name and ran with it...

[@judgecaligulabushman]

The Burgundian thing is kind of a meme in low country circles. The Greater Netherlands is taken to its logical conclusion, partly to mock the idea of reunification, but also going back the only point when we were truly unified before it went all arwy.

[@FragLord]

We were never fully unified apart from 1815-1830

[@judgecaligulabushman]

@FragLord culturally, we still were.

[@FirefoxisredExplorerisblueGoog]

@@FragLord We were first unified under the Frankish Empire.

[@FragLord]

@@FirefoxisredExplorerisblueGoog Who do you think the Frankish were? The low countries are Frankish... The Franks lived in modern day Belgium and the Netherlands before they moved into what we now call France... The Salians were first mentioned by Ammianus Marcellinus, who described Julian's defeat of "the first Franks of all, those whom custom has called the Salians", in 358. Julian allowed the Franks to remain in Texuandria as fœderati within the Empire, having moved there from the Rhine-Maas delta. The 5th century Notitia Dignitatum lists a group of soldiers as Salii. Some decades later, Franks in the same region, possibly the Salians, controlled the River Scheldt and were disrupting transport links to Britain in the English Channel. Although Roman forces managed to pacify them, they failed to expel the Franks, who continued to be feared as pirates. The Salians are generally seen as the predecessors of the Franks who pushed southwestwards into what is now modern France, who eventually came to be ruled by the Merovingians (see below). This is because when the Merovingian dynasty published the Salian law (Lex Salica) it applied in the Neustrian area from the river Liger (Loire) to the Silva Carbonaria, the western kingdom founded by them outside the original area of Frankish settlement. In the 5th century, Franks under Chlodio pushed into Roman lands in and beyond the "Silva Carbonaria" or "Charcoal forest", which ran through the area of modern western Wallonia. The forest was the boundary of the original Salian territories to the north and the more Romanized area to the south in the Roman province of Belgica Secunda, which now lies in northern France. Chlodio conquered Tournai, Artois, Cambrai, and as far as the Somme river. Chlodio is often seen as an ancestor of the future Merovingian dynasty. Childeric I, who according to Gregory of Tours was a reputed descendant of Chlodio, was later seen as administrative ruler over Roman Belgica Secunda and possibly other areas. In a modern linguistic context, the language of the early Franks is variously called "Old Frankish" or "Old Franconian" and these terms refer to the language of the Franks prior to the advent of the High German consonant shift, which took place between 600 and 700 AD. After this consonant shift the Frankish dialect diverges, with the dialects which would become modern Dutch not undergoing the consonantal shift, while all others did so to varying degrees.[45] As a result, the distinction between Old Dutch and Old Frankish is largely negligible, with Old Dutch (also called Old Low Franconian) being the term used to differentiate between the affected and non-affected variants following the aforementioned Second Germanic consonant shift.

[@FirefoxisredExplorerisblueGoog]

@@FragLord I know, mate.

[@kulloth]

The Peace of Westphalia and its consequences have been a disaster for the human race

[@lordkonzilla7890]

Always nice to learn more about west germany

[@jaspervb8425]

Half of these comments are people who didn't watch the video, then some who repeat a basic argument that gets mentioned in the first ten minutes of the video and then a few which actually take the video into account lol

[@JudeVerwoerd]

As someone digging into my Belgian family History i am extremely grateful for this video.

[@Flemishknight22]

Good video, with a lot of good examples. However, I do not want to try and 'disprove' a very well made video of almost 3 hours by simply saying this, I just want to share my opinion as a Flemish person. I do not see the forming of belgium strictly as an Anglo-French mistake. It is one we made ourselves. (know I am biased, I want an independant flemish state) Yet what I was taught here is that the Belgian recolution was one of the French speaking walloons and the Flemish (yet also french speaking) elites. The formation of this idea (at least within Belgium) that it is a fake country (again, I am one of the people whom think this) ironically started as soon as Belgium did and it re-ignited the Flemish Nationalism or pride that had been lost centuries earlier. Flemish people before the formation of Belgium, at least the regular people, seemed to like the Dutch speaking regime. The french speaking part were rightfully frustrated, being a 'language minority'. They eventually flipped that on us with the start of Belgium. And recent bad reforms haven't made that feeling go away. But feel free to have your own opinion on it. Be critical!

[@hattorihanzo2275]

There was a brief reference to Marc Dutroux. Scary stuff. Unfortunately, what happened in that case is frighteningly global. There's a leaked document called The Dutroux File that can allegedly be found online. It's a report that was buried by Belgian officials. It's in French so I cannot read it but I've heard it's shocking. A true crime nightmare.

[@milesmartens9635]

to give you an answers, it might be the only thing we're still not able to laugh about even though he's been in jail for almost thirty years.

[@filipv.5019]

Spain is also composed of multiple regions with different languages. Spanish (Castilian) was forced upon them by Franco. And what about the United Kingdom? I think that Scottish people and English people differ MUCH more than Flemish and Walloons, and I wonder how many English understand Scottish or Welsh. I feel as a Flemish man way more connected with Walloons than with the Dutch. The so called other culture was invented by polititions for politic reasons.

[@fowchiiiliedpuppiesdied]

Poor Spain. I mean, “yay Spain”. Poor UK, I mean “yay UK”. Same goes for Belgium, I suppose.

[@thermionic1234567]

I can’t help but think of the Monty Python sketch with the faux contest to create the best insult against Belgium and the Belgians…

[@laurentfranco8075]

Well as a Belgian I'm just going to say it. Miserable Fat Belgian Bastards! 🤣

[@Subsandsoda]

@@thermionic1234567 "let's not call them anything, let's just ignore them" 😭

[@FirstnameLastname-tl1bq]

I went into this video with the general sentiment that it wasn’t a real country but you convinced me. I’m an American so perhaps my understanding of the situation is flawed, but your point about the modern idea of nations and states being centered around the concept of nationalism really changed my perspective. Love your work as always

[@mahakalabhairava9950]

Flemish and Walloons have genetically more in common with each other than with any surrounding population. Like it or not. Dutch are more different from Flemish than Walloons are from northern French. Like it or not.

[@Sperminski]

Have you ever been to Flanders or Walloonia lol?

[@mahakalabhairava9950]

@arnocolin9462 It is absolutely true. Flemish and Walloons are genetically barely distinct from eachother. If you have Pan-Germanic and/or Nationalist Flemish sentiments this may be hard to swallow.

[@KK-rg1wz]

do you have a source for these nonsense?

[@mahakalabhairava9950]

@KK-rg1wz Genetic data shows that. I bet you are a Flemish nationalist. Otherwise you wouldn't say that.

[@KK-rg1wz]

@@mahakalabhairava9950 So, you don't have any source? A study? An article? Je suis sur que vous n'avez pas étudié grand chôse ....

[@Frogge.777]

Here to say belgium isnt real

[@Tom-xb2ml]

Lol for real, what even is this video? 3 hour yap session to "deboonk" and explain the unexplainable

[@ApostolicMajesty]

I for one enjoy explaining the 'unexplainable'.

[@mahatmamartinus]

@@Frogge.777 nah Belgium is Holland

[@AYEcorolla]

​@@ApostolicMajesty alright, make sense of Starmer

[@skadiwarrior2053]

I went there for a holiday so I know it is real.

[@ruthvermeulen2098]

Oh the 2008-2009 we’ve almost beaten that record in 2019-2020

[@TheBelgianGoated]

Thank you, as a belgian inhabitant

[@fowchiiiliedpuppiesdied]

Please encourage critical thought, and an independent, self sufficient, less compliant attitude amongst your people. Ruffle some feathers in the EU. Break it up. Get your old currency and customs back.

[@davycrockett1112]

Very informative

[@theeccentrictripper3863]

Well I'll be damned, I guess Belgium is a real country. This was a really fun stream, quite the onion.

[@lokenontherange]

So to summarise, Belgian state real. Not a nation state

[@whiggles9203]

I think the super-national European identity gives regional identity a favour over national identities. Fantastic stream

[@whiggles9203]

I think the Belgian nation has always been present, even without a single political unit. More points for the Belgae

[@fowchiiiliedpuppiesdied]

I disagree completely. It eventually homogenizes, brainwashes and tyrannizes. It dilutes the possibility of individualism. It simply waters down the culture eventually, to nothing.

[@peterstuifzand5522]

I used to live about 5 km away from Essen in Northern Belgium and still dont live not that far from the border in the Netherlands and I can tell you that real people live there on real lamd. Most people in Flanders speak Dutch aswell. Holland and northern Belgium/Flanders are always connected. In Wallonië most speak French

[@marklamoreaux6932]

I cannot seem to find the talk that you gave Jansenism that you referenced in the lecture. Do you happen to know where I can find it as it seems worthwhile to listen to (as I don't quite get what Jansenism is)?

[@ApostolicMajesty]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/nam7Xqampdpjndk timestamp 4:03:57

[@marklamoreaux6932]

@@ApostolicMajesty Thank you!

[@mmmmmmmm53]

I don't know if Belgium is real or not, but what I can say is that it has no purpose. It is no longer a Catholic country, so there is no reason for the Walloons and the Flemish to still be together, seeing as the main reason they stuck together was their Catholic faith, a faith no longer defended by neither the Belgian State nor the Belgian royal family. PS: I'd like to also add that Baldwin of Belgium should not be celebrated in any way, shape or form. Instead of really creating a constitutional crisis or abdicating nobly he chose to participate in the "regency" charade. He was, in the end, a coward, and should be remembered as such.

[@rationalfreak]

To be fair it was the snake Cardinal Daneels who convinced him to drop his resistance to the abortion law.

[@olivierschraepen5451]

The King didn't have a say of what would have happened to him, he told the PM that he couldn't, and the PM eventually told him that he must abdicate temporarily or forever. Believe me when I say he tried all that he could to stop that bill.

[@keptir7551]

Degrelle>Baldwin

[@mmmmmmmm53]

@@olivierschraepen5451 he tried all instead of abdicating forever, so in the end he didn’t try it all. He took a nap, the abortion bill passed and he continued to reign as if nothing had happened after that. Whatever he did, it was worthless.

[@olivierschraepen5451]

@@mmmmmmmm53 If he were to abdicate and the monarchy were to be abolished then the last piece of Catholic influence in the Belgian government would be gone. Even if limited the King today still uses his influence to steer the nation back towards the Church.

[@SH3V3K_14]

As a Belgian, I'd like to say that Belgium is a real nation... or, at least it was. But, on the other hand, it is artificial and it wasn't created by the belgians themselves.

[@fowchiiiliedpuppiesdied]

Who cares anymore? When one surrenders their critical thought as individuals, they are open to all forms of tyranny.

[@ducdebrabant4997]

I am belgian, the country is boring, rainy, grey but definitely not fake.

[@GOBLIN-o7n]

Long time fan. I'm not a monarchist and I'm not catholic but I find your takes very interesting and I respect you as an intellectual because you are usually very consistent. However this episode feels like there's allot of cope for lack of a better word. The Belgians rebelled against their rightful Monarch and established an Orelansist style monarchy with a gutter crown. Being a Belgian legitimist just doesn't feel consistent with your other beliefs.

[@FeHearts]

Under that logic the Netherlands itself was illegitimate because they rebelled against their rightful King in the first place.

[@GOBLIN-o7n]

​@@FeHearts At some point yes, but by this time the Netherlands had been legitimized in the traditional (non napoleonic} conception of monarchy with the King retaining significant power.

[@FragLord]

@@FeHearts Yes but they replaced their monarchy with a republic... Still not a parliamentary democracy, but a bit higher on the freedom and legitimacy scale i presume :D

[@GOBLIN-o7n]

@FragLord Yes the Dutch threw out their king and established a republic but by the time period we're talking about the Netherlands was a traditional European kingdom with a less radical conception of itself than Belgium.

[@GOBLIN-o7n]

@FragLord I'm not speaking of legitimacy in terms of will of the people by the way I'm speaking of legitimacy in terms of monarchy.

[@ajsj]

A little late BUT, SUPPORT YOUR FAVORITE APOSTOLIC MAJESTY..by liking the video, subscribing AND joining the channel! And if you want to continue the conversation, there is always the AM fanclub Discord: discord.gg/hae7zrQf

[@LordEriolTolkien]

''BELGIUM!'' -Douglas Adams

[@M4rk155]

Thank you. - a Belgian

[@fowchiiiliedpuppiesdied]

It doesn’t matter if Belgium constantly complies, and buys into the ideologues controlling the EU, simply to continue “going along, to get along”. There appears to be no critical thought present in Europe or the UK.

[@M4rk155]

@ you’re fun at parties

[@sw6155]

Voor Voorst, Voor Vrijheid en Voor Recht! België! 🇧🇪💕💕💕💕💕

[@jandepuydt5377]

Voor worst, voor bloemkool en puree!

[@Bernaren60]

For King, Justice and Liberty!

[@TarpeianRock]

I like listening to the bit from TS Elliot about Belonging, Identity, Ethnicity and all those fine sentiments as I contemplate the huge influx of people who have no inkling of the history of the country they now occupy. And let’s be honest about this : they don’t give a damn about it. Those immigrants living in Gent haven’t the faintest interest or are even aware of what made the city they live in right now. All our history, all those that came before us and made us, for good and for bad, will be swept away. How on earth can we define Flanders now ? What common past? What common values ? A fractured society with wildly differing fundamental values. Lefties would have us believe that this diversity is inherently good, the reality contradicts this : there is no utopian melting of alien communities, only neighborhoods containing the same ethnicities. Wishing for something to be true does not make I true.

[@Alexander-uv2ir]

België Boven

[@laurentleyssens2998]

From a Flamish family, passed francophone speaking french and current francophone from Brussels, and belgian ''patriot'' = Thanks for the enormous work and great vid

[@laurentleyssens2998]

@@camger0014 kzbin.info/www/bejne/qGrCf4KaqZhmp5I

[@nickcorne6407]

@@camger0014 reason being?

[@Francoaleman1]

It is actually.

[@Μπρο]

How is greece more artificial than Belgium?

[@De_Vliegende_Hollander]

Just the fact that Belgium keeps France away from us Dutch is enough😂

[@fowchiiiliedpuppiesdied]

In what sense? European nations have rendered themselves completely defenseless. They are nothing but a satellite state to whichever international tyrant is in charge. The U.S., my own country, being the latest…

[@vmann4455]

Thank you

[@Afura33]

Based video

[@timloo6191]

Sweden and Finland...... don't let putin know. He will strongly differ

[@belgianlegion]

Leve België vive la Belgique es lebe Belgien ✋🇧🇪🇧🇪🇧🇪🇧🇪🇧🇪🇧🇪🇧🇪🇧🇪🇧🇪🇧🇪🇧🇪🇧🇪🇧🇪🇧🇪🇧🇪🇧🇪🇧🇪

[@lordvarrax5060]

“Any country who must say ‘I am a country’, is no true country.”

[@Wn9618]

@@lordvarrax5060 nice

[@planets9102]

By this definition no independence movement ever would be valid. The USA? just a rebilious colony.

[@belgianvanbeethoven]

All countries constantly scream "I'm a country"...

[@lordvarrax5060]

@ No, they don’t. They just act like a country and get on with whatever they’re doing. The US doesn’t scream about how it is a country, because everyone knows it is and basically no one disputes it. Same for most states.

[@belgianvanbeethoven]

@@lordvarrax5060 Out of all the countries you could choose, the US is one of the worst examples haha. You with your Murica nonsense spend more time telling everyone you are a country than any Belgian ever has.

[@EmVeeVanc]

belgium is realllll

[@AdamVanDenBerghe]

Vivre das republiek de Gent ❤

[@chanchingcheng8204]

As a "Belgian" it in fact is an artificial creation. We are named after a celtic tribe we have no genetic, linguistic or cultural connection with.

[@michaeldejode473]

Most things we know as a human can be seen as a construct (or what you call an artificial creation), the only things I would exclude are things that would exist if humans wouldn't exist. Kingdoms are constructs, nations are constructs, regions are constructs, countries are constructs, borders are constructs, the land on which they reside isn't a construct.

[@danieldelaney1377]

This Is your brain on monarchism

[@comeintotheforest]

@@danieldelaney1377 I don’t believe you listened to the video. Or if you did, you’re possibly deaf?

[@kiryi]

Belgium never had a common identity. It came into being based on French revanchism and a short-sighted Catholic Church afraid of Dutch protestantism. The fouding ministers of the nation such as Charles Rogier did everything to prohibit the use of the Flemish language. Flemings were refused any access to government functions. Schools and universities were only available for the French elite. I remember my father telling me that the 'chef de bureau' (office manager) in Antwerp (Flemish region) had to be a Walloon, who could only speak French. That was in the 1920 - 1930's! The 'apartheid' was even such that Flanders, although discriminated by culture and etnic origin - always paid the largest part of the taxes, but never got their fair deal (see 'wafelijzer politiek'). I will conclude with the sentence 'Hier ons bloed, wanneer ons recht! (Here our blood, when our rigths?) .This was written on a monument erected after the First Worldwar, where our soldiers fought for a King who was completely oblivious to any Flemish rights or aspirations.

[@KD-cg9iq]

Julius Caesar in The Bello Gallico anno 50 BC : Horum omnium fortissimi sunt BELGAE .....

[@craiggaulzetti2255]

One needs to only look at Belgium’s national football team to see how outmoded Wallonian or Flemish nationalism is- modern day Belgium has always been a composite of its many different groups who inhabit the country. Frankly a west flandrian dirt farmer is as unintelligible to a dirt farmer from outside of Mons as he is from an east flandrian dirt farmer. Brussels has always been a city made up of French speaking Flems for the most part and the number of Belgians who are of Moroccan or Congolesed descent is far larger than say the Germanic speaking populace. Back to the football team- one of the best teams in the world and it looks like the Belgium of today. Black, Brown, Arab, Italian, Waloon and Flemish. And when that team does well- even the most chauvinist of Vlaams Belang fascists drunkenly waves the black yellow and red tricolors/driefarben and sings the Brabant song. Likewise- if Nico Eekhout (can there be a more Flemish name?) dominates another bicycle race- no one in Liege is looking at that kid’s guts, talent and audacity and calling him a foreigner. Belgians are Belgian because they identify with each other despite their differences more than they do with their larger neighbors. They’re so good at being a united country they don’t even need a national Government to oroceed with business as usual. There have been months maybe even half years where there was NO Belgian central govt!😂 Btw- “waffle time” was no doubt meant to refer to Belgium’s choice pastry not your principled opinions and takes on things.

[@FragLord]

Brussels was 90% dutch speaking in 1830 at the start of the Belgian independence. Then came a period of 150 years of apartheid, discrimination and forced assimilation. The French-speaking bourgeoisie showed very little respect for the Flemish portion of the population. Belgium's co-founder, Charles Rogier, wrote in 1832 to Jean-Joseph Raikem, the minister of justice: "The first principles of a good administration are based upon the exclusive use of one language, and it is evident that the only language of the Belgians should be French. In order to achieve this result, it is necessary that all civil and military functions are entrusted to Walloons and Luxemburgers; this way, the Flemish, temporarily deprived of the advantages of these offices, will be constrained to learn French, and we will hence destroy bit by bit the Germanic element in Belgium." In 1838, another co-founder, senator Alexandre Gendebien, even declared that the Flemish were "one of the more inferior races on the Earth, just like the negroes".

[@BellBeakerBloke]

Congolese & Turks aren’t Belgian though. They’re part of the invasion forces that will inevitably be re-migrated out of Europe in the mid-21st century

[@hattorihanzo2275]

How do you explain what happened across Belgium after Morocco beat Belgium in the World Cup?

[@skankindjedi]

fk your multiracial mercenary football team. imagine identifying with that sht. Idioot.

[@camger0014]

Brussel is Broekzele. Fransen buiten!!!

[@thisis_chavez]

❤❤

[@ericneilson1198]

Did Belgium come about naturally? Luxembourg did. Netherlands did.

[@salimelmouaffaq1351]

Luxembourg could just have well been part of Belgium. During the revolution it was part of Belgium until some treaties (either in 1831 or 1839 I think). Then Luxembourg became independent because they didn't want a woman on the throne...

[@ClassicCase]

The provinces that currently call themselves collectively "Belgium" are of course parts of the true sovereign Kingdom of the Netherlands.

[@nightmareuic9398]

dude elgium was created as a buffer state i am flemmish and i hate belgium flemish people are discriminated when elections are vote is counted as halve from the wanloons so talk to somone who knows and lives here not just your books

[@Vexillifer]

My "country", Belgium, sucks. If the rapture happens and Christ comes down from the heavens with the angels, you will have two Belgians, leaning on their spades, as they look at eachother with an air of confusion, wondering what it could possibly mean for this year's potato harvest.

[@Gliese380]

Maybe leave your village (or Brussels) once in a while...

[@juliendecoutere3049]

Why giving a damn about these flights of angels if you have some potatoes (read: fries) to harvest?

[@AndreasScout]

Its funny that Farage is taking aim at Belgium ( but then that is what a good paid shill of putin does, because Belgium was the fist one that wanted to use russian frozen assets to give to Ukraine.. and were the first to give the interests of that russian frozen assets to Ukraine, over 2.5 billion euros now) seeing that if you look at the etymology of the name Farage ( where it actually originated) it comes from Flanders. Hehe If memory serves it was something in dialect meaning ferry man/ trader Also from 1080 til around 1350 there was mass and frequent migration from Belgian region artisans and skilled workers to England, Wales and Scotland ( think weavers and other artisans) at the request of the English kings and local rulers. Ghent, Bruges, Ypres ( Ieper) and rest of northern france which was part of the Belgian region as well during that time as well as most cities in the Belgian region ( as well as Netherlands and there were offices of those inLondon too for example) were part of the Hansa conglomerate of sort of city state / trade leagues where the Hansa ( baltic, northern germany region) had trade offices all over. Quite interesting and a lot of Belgians were merchants in those trade routes. Great video sir.

[@gulanhem9495]

Isn't Belgium a bit artificial? Half of it could as well belong to France and the other half to the Netherlands.

[@tauernexpress]

Definitly not ! I'd rather say Belgium sticks together because flems find that they are definitly not dutch and walloons that they are definitly not french, and hence stick together. And there's still a lot of mutual crossover intrests, both cultural and economic, and our common child, Brussels.

[@christophe9602]

@@tauernexpress Belgium sticks together because of insane amounts of propaganda directed at the Flemish and their traitorous conservatives, and because quite frankly, it's a good deal for Walloons and Brussels, two places that would rival Zimbabwe within years if they were ever cut off from the Flemish tax farm.

[@jaro551]

The very idea of a nationstate is artificial... How do you guys keep coming up with these stupid questions?

[@jaro551]

​@@christophe9602Everything is propaganda for you guys these days...

[@tauernexpress]

@@christophe9602 West Flanders and Limburg take money, walloon Brabant pays

[@DPRK_Best_Korea]

Belgium? Isn't that part of Germany or something?

[@tadeu_marsher]

Flanders❤ Belgium 💩

[@johntheidiotfarmer6410]

0:00 seconds in, not watching further. No, Belgium is not a country.

[@AustrianPainter14]

That’s funny because Flemish people told me Belgium isn’t a real country. Or can’t even from a government,

[@olivierschraepen5451]

Some Flemish people are really obsessed with their dream of a nation which has never been seen in history. But these are in fact (by polls we know this) a minority.

[@AustrianPainter14]

It’s not a minority. It’s a cordon sanitaire. The two largest parties are Flemish separatists.

[@FragLord]

@@olivierschraepen5451 Yes like the polls that said that Trump would lose 2 times, Brexit wouldn't happen and every poll ever made in the last 10 years in almost every election worldwide was wrong by a significant margin... Poll away me boy

[@olivierschraepen5451]

@@FragLord Yes but some people vote for them because they want a right wing party, not because they want to split the country. That's why I said that there have been polls which show that less then half of Flemish people want to leave Belgium.

[@FragLord]

@@olivierschraepen5451 Yes but the same can be said the other way around. There is no left wing Flemish nationalist party. To also think that 100% of the left wing and centrist voters are 100% unionist is equally as folly... Mind you that in almost all seperatist regions in Europe, those movements are left to extreme-left. Catalans, left wing. Basques, extreme left. Sinn fein ireland/northern-ireland are almost communists... Flanders is the exception to the rule. I am in agreement that, most likely, there isn't a majority. But your argument is a double edged sword you tend to sheet as a dagger, but it ain't.

[@nullifye7816]

insufferable

[@kettelbe]

I m Walloon, not belgian

[@masdenka6957]

Wallonia is more an administrative division than anything else, In Belgium there are Belgians, Flemish, Liégois, Branbatian etc ...

[@tessam.6217]

Belgium shouldn't be. The Walloons are from a Celtic origin, now romanised, Flemings are Germanic. Let's end this Belgian charade in which Flemings have no say ("100 families rule Belgium and none of them are Flemish." - Joost Ballegeers) and reattach Flanders to the Netherlands or even Germany.

[@michaeldejode473]

You think Flemings would have anything to say if they were "re-attached" to the Netherlands or Germany? I think we would have less say, and if we would have more say then the Germans and Dutch would think they have less say, therefore it would not solve any conflict, the conflicts that exist now would just be replaced by others.

[@masdenka6957]

both walloons and flemish are a mixture of celts and germanics, Most of Belgium's "ruling families" have always been predominantly Flemish, so just because they were part of the French-speaking elite doesn't mean they aren't Flemish.

[@FragLord]

@@masdenka6957 wrong Walloons and Flemish are a mix of Germans and Romanized Celts. The vast majority of the original Belgae tribes were killed, fled, exterminated and/or enslaved by Caesar. The Franks, which originated in the low countries, were a Germanic tribe. Those who moved/invaded to France would make modern day France. Those who stayed were called the Salian Franks. They would evolve in the Dutch, Flemish and Walloon regions. Note that those regions are and were still very diverse. I'm just simplifying here... The French Franks would adopt a Romanized culture and language, the Walloons too but to a lesser extend. The Northern Salian Franks would evolve into the Dutch and Flemish "as we know" and would keep their Germanic language. The Franks, French, Belgians and Dutch all come from the same tribe. The Franks. The French just stole the name and ran with it...

[@starganstar2016]

Shoutout to Spasticus Autisticus

[@kettelbe]

Flanders 30 to 50% far right. Wallonia less than 1%. Let that sink in.

[@wimve4719]

Prefer that over being corrupt ... Let that sink in. Oh, and I am by far not far right ... all pun intended.

[@sjingelling]

Tf it is... where did i grew up in then? China.?

[@dustinh4175]

Like israel

[@Thibb_]

I am a 20 year old citizen of Belgium, yet I have never felt even remotely close to Belgium. Only when I started my life into adulthood I realised there is a nation that I felt some connection to, Flanders. Learning about my family's history made me realize how weird Belgium is. Treating the Flemish as second-class citizens for most of its existence. My grandfathers were lucky to survive both World Wars, even though they were treated like dogs by French-speaking officers. There is no fabric to bind Belgium together. It's artificial nature doesn't stem from it's origins, rather it's impotency and ineffectiveness as a proper nation or state

[@salimelmouaffaq1351]

Doesn't it also kinda depend where in Flanders you live? I don't have any data at hand to really back it up but from my experience for example in Limburg, I'd say Flemish is more likely a 2nd or 3rd option with people largely preferring Belgian or Limburgish

[@Thibb_]

@@salimelmouaffaq1351 That is a common theme present in many countries, regarding regional differences and loyalties toward localities. These are after all places where people grow up and live their own lives. Atleast in Flanders, but no doubt also the case in other countries, we often jokingly refer to what region we live in. I think it sounds all too familiar when I say "Oh, you're from that city, you people must be..." or "I'm a real Gentenaar" and stuff like that. The difference with regional loyalties and that of an actual state or nation lies in the sense of a shared cultural group of people. While Limburg and Antwerp share their differences, there is no doubt that these people rather be together than apart. Such is the case for the other Flemish regions, apart from Brussels where the majority of people, due to demographical changes, don't really feel a connection to this shared or common cultural group. There is however an exception. My idea of there being a shared sense of togetherness relies on the fact that the people would have been there for years, generations to form this common identity and feeling. Newcomers never had a chance to develop this Flemish common identity. Rather, they choose to which group they want to belong. Flemish? Belgian? or just stick to my region or city? For many people, choosing to which group you belong is a personal matter. Hence why many people in Flanders still see Belgium as their primary state, same situation for Flemish nationalists. For migrants however, this choice is based on not only personal, but practical matters. The will to be invested and secure in a community drives a newcomer to quickly adopt their new surroundings. There is merit to be found in the intensity of exposure newcomers get of these different groups. In my personal opinion, migrants are more likely to adopt 'being Belgian' or their regional identities rather then the Flemish or Walloon cultures. Of course, some newcomers decide to stick with their current identity and only partially adopt that of their new situation. Such is the nature of us humans. Especially in Europe, there is a case to be made that migrants and their offspring are, in certain situations, more stubborn of letting go of their 'old identity'.

[@Gwngoza]

Belgium is a buffer zone for holland and france

[@inigo9000]

@@Gwngoza you mean Germany and France, Holland even even has to thank the Belgians for any importance in history it eventually got

[@Gwngoza]

@ explain

[@inigo9000]

@@Gwngoza what’s there to explain? Before the seperation Dutch people didden’t even have a name but simply also labeled as Fiaminghi (Flemish) and after that as part of the Germans (Dutch). Everything of importance before 1500 is related to the Belgians and North French. And the prosperous nation after that is build up on the culture adopted from cities as Bruge, Ghent, Tournai, Brussels. Even the Dutch golden age of painting is all thanks to the influence of the Flemish primitives like Van Eyck, Rubens, Campin, Breughel. Even Mercator is actually Belgian. We all like to joke about les petite belges but they have much more history than their northern neighbours and are anything but pretenious about it

[@Gwngoza]

@ what is there to explain? Continues to explain 🤷🏻‍♂️

[@commando2113]

Fake the buffer state was the united kingdom of the nederland's it was made after the napolionic wars

[@seihai-kun6726]

This video sponsored by HM Philippe

[@PatFeyenoord]

This split is such a shame. It is also a pity that this was received with cheers by many in the Northern Netherlands, while in Flanders (and even also in Wallonia) so many wanted to remain part of the United Kingdom of the Netherlands. I hope that this mistake can be corrected in the future and that my Flemish brothers and us Northern Netherlands, without Wallonia, can form one country. One ethnic brotherhood, one language, one country. België barst!

[@Gliese380]

Many Flemish people love Wallonia and its beautiful nature far more than we love the bland and flat Netherlands, FYI.

[@Sperminski]

Belgie barst maar de Dietse gedachte is al even absurd.

[@Sperminski]

@@Gliese380Speak for yourself. In the end we all are european.

[@wowfly6485]

You can have Flanders & North Rhine (but not Westphalia) if you give northern Germany our kinsmen in Drenthe, Oaveriessel, some of Gelderlaand & maybe Grunnen. Open to negotiation.

[@salimelmouaffaq1351]

Me and pretty much anyone I know of would NEVER consider themselves Dutch, lmao

[@alwinlowdham2670]

It's a fake country sir

[@daisangen2559]

cope

[@moderntribez4753]

The Walloons hehe Am born in Walloony hahaha love epic word bro i like and the video is correct bro but we fucking rule bro and you too

[@bernardvanbost9099]

Belgie barst

[@K55365]

Belgium is a bufferstate 😂 it is as fake as countries get 😂😂😂

[@noidontthinksolol]

I am from belgium and i can tell you for a fact that we are fake