Legal Hearing: AAA Publishers Said the Quiet Part Out Loud.

[@BellularNews]

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[@GamerLivingWill]

@@BellularNews oh my god! Someone else who loves Freelancer!?

[@RyuuTenno]

if it's 87% of older games that haven't been touched, the then retro game market effectively doesn't exist, cause that's an enormous amount of games to be left untouched. Yeah, I'd love for all old ass software, games included to be archived now, and honestly, idc wtf the government or the esa say. It should just be archived and available for everyone to have access to at this point

[@bobshagit]

they want us playing the "new stuff" because AI is making it we have to play it... to beta test it... and improve their AI... this is what they want this is why I refuse to play any of their trash

[@CFox.7]

HT and fin/propecia ? is it worth the facial bloating ? Would have been better shaving head and hitting gym ? Face wayyy leaner in your old vids

[@NicholasDarling]

Basically the U.S government takes money from big corporations in order to control the people.

[@jacobturnerart]

Remember - If libraries didn't exist, no one would allow them to be created today. No government or private company would back free, non-profit access to information and published material..

[@WhiteFyre]

No one would back civil rights or services, period. Disgusting, isn’t it?

[@heli0ns]

This right here. You have hit the nail on it's actual head, where the core of the issue is. Either we as a society accept that the few people with all the resources are allowed to control our culture & knowledge as they please, or we don't. We have been sliding hard into accepting that we will own nothing as of the last 20 years.

[@joshallen128]

No if the first sale doctrine didn't exist then we wouldn't have libraries. The ability to lend out books and other stuff. Sure it doesn't exist for digital goods then again in 20 to 30 years the games of today likely won't run on modern hardware

[@UnsoberIdiot]

@@heli0ns No. It's been going on since at least the end of WW2. (though there are arguments to be made that the WWs were pushed so that certain groups would get the power and influence needed to engage in such large-scale social engineering, but that's not for youtube comments)

[@genera1013]

@@joshallen128 We actually do have digital libraries where you can check out ebooks.

[@robertmcpherson138]

It really does beg the question of how it can possibly be considered piracy if they are LITERALLY refusing to sell or distribute it under any channels...

[@mrconroy4672]

The only ones who would likely do better is ironically Nintendo long term. The esa/western publishers aren’t going to learn and crash out altogether long term.

[@jhondoe2139]

@Bickiiification it's not stealing, it's copying you arnt taking anything when you commit digital piracy

[@kraosdadafusfus8034]

@@Bickiiification You're part of the problem.

[@arturpaivads]

@@Bickiiification "Burn the books, you're not entitled to read, burn them all"

[@thedukeofdukers]

@@jhondoe2139that’s called IP theft.

[@yfrufeyfryd2129]

“You’re not allowed to use our products without giving us money!” -Then are you gonna sell it to me? “No”

[@fabamatic]

@@yfrufeyfryd2129 this is baffling

[@TrexxSFV]

@yfrufeyfryd2129 The point is they want consumers to keep buying new games in mass. If they take away piracy and don't give you an affordable option to buy an older game, all you are left with is buying an extremely unaffordable older physical copy or just buying a new game instead. It sounds ridiculous to older video game fans like us but the intent is to make it so newer gamers don't even know about the massive library of older games that exist and just keep on shilling money to their new product. I'd argue the film market works in the same way. You turn on a streaming service and mostly all you get is newer movies made for profit with a few classics to keep you coming back for more. This is how they want the video game industry to work.

[@pirojfmifhghek566]

"Shame." [fires up qbittorrent]

[@earlyriser03]

@@TrexxSFV the major difference being that the movie industry at least cares more about its history and strives to preserve it in some fashion, even if many methods these days gate keep those experiences. Video games have yet to catch up to film, tv, and music in that respect. Outside of Nintendo, concern among big video games publishers for the culture, the craft, and the history is extremely low.

[@genome1131]

sounds like some people are asking to be put on the bankrupt list.

[@Raysureeea]

Imagine buying a painting.. But it secretly has a requirement for wifi to display the painting. And when the company who sold it decides to shut it down, they come take your painting and leave you with nothing. People would be mad

[@AlexGrom]

The connection requirement without agreeing to give fans rights to host after you abandon the project is vile. I think that's the loophole that companies are exploiting, as it seems more like a netflix than owning a physical copy of the film. I get it, you can use internet connection as one of the safeguards against piracy (even though it doesn't work well and is inconvenient to the player) but please do think of a future, if not players than yours. This way you can remove the costs for server maintenance and moderation but I guess the companies don't want a potential bad rep coming from fans doing silly things sometimes.

[@levithewizard]

Art students can look at old paintings, music students can study old compositions, legal students can read old case laws. Video game design students just have to "figure it out".

[@ThatGuyNamedRick]

If developers have to start at square one, I propose that in turn no company or publisher can trademark game mechanics. fair is fair.

[@tailsspin621]

@@levithewizard the legal student comparison isn't that great since we don't exactly find that fun and I:m 99% sure case law isn't copyrighted, but the other points definitely hold. I believe at least one other form of digital media has exemptions similar to the one that was just denied, and if so that just makes this decision more frustrating.

[@_Ekaros]

I don't think music students can digitally loan material under copyright.

[@tailsspin621]

​@@ThatGuyNamedRickyour thinking Patents, not trademarkes. Different forms of IP law there. Honestly, I don't understand the what parent office's stance is on game mechanics anymore because it seems inconsistent with which patents are accepted and which are rejected when talking about game mechanics. If some mechanics are special enough to be patented, which i don't think they should be but I don't make the rules, it would be helpful to have some sort of metric that isn't "whatever the clerk's vibes were" which honestly seems to be the case.

[@d-padqueen1103]

To be fair, a lot of old video games only had popularity because they didn't have a lot of competition. If they tried to be sold as games today, it would only appease a very niche market of buyers. Example: Turtle, where you just put in a bunch of commands and made a white triangle move, you could make it draw something - but show that to today's younger gamers and they'd probably still prefer club penguin.

[@lollsr0yce]

Piracy is legitimately game preservation now. That's the reality we live in.

[@followingtheroe1952]

It always has been

[@rhindlethered]

Not really. It's still theft. But keep lying to yourself if that's what you need to put your conscience at ease.

[@fritzgerald8494]

Not theft if im just licensing my games

[@bdhale34]

@@rhindlethered What was stolen exactly? They aren't losing anything they already made their money off the product and have decided they no longer want to make money on it by not only not selling it in many cases actively preventing the sale of it because they are done with it. If you leave something on the side of the road I cannot steal it, you said with that action you no longer wanted that anymore, same thing here bub.

[@MadMadNomad]

@@rhindlethered How that boot taste? If you ain't a bot, I got bad news for ya. They don't love you back, and ain't ever gonna.

[@elroiy2139]

Sees a painting in a museum, enjoys its beauty. "You are under arrest"

[@joel17721]

wanted to write a text close to this just now lol

[@MistyMjolnir]

Wanting to read a book in a library for "recreational purposes". "Wait, that's illegal!"

[@xX_gamerboy_Xx]

Frustrating

[@sechernbiw3321]

"Hey that's valuable intellectual property!" "You're impoverishing the heirs to Da Vinci's IP!" "Give me your wallet right now!"

[@rhindlethered]

Wow. What a completely awful and useless comparison.

[@lawrenceredmacher4382]

publishers: stop playing our old games, we aren't getting any money from them! people: then maybe you should start selling them again publishers: no

[@explodoboyv2]

"you shouldn't want to play our old games" -publishers, definitely

[@monicaz1558]

They are just worried that the old games would outshine and sell their new games.

[@JohnSmith-xq1pz]

Translation how DARE you play old games and not consume our latest junk!

[@jsgdk]

Exactly.

[@addictofanime]

Stopping old games from being available won’t make triple a junk sell more, at best it’ll drive people further into indie, and probably ensure the eventual death of the corpo rats. They’ll panic as soon as one of the big publishers declares bankruptcy though, at the moment Ubisoft is looking like the first titan to fall.

[@SimuLord]

@@addictofanime The hot minute institutional investors decide that AAA slop isn't an acceptable return for the risk, the entire industry will party like it's 1983. That's why monetization has gotten predatory to the point of being indistinguishable from satire of corporate greed. The desperation is palpable.

[@LegitHarpyHunter]

@@JohnSmith-xq1pz this is just going to push people to make their own games again. It's a cycle, the big companies release garbage en masse>people come together to make the games they want to play>those people become well known game studios constantly iterating on their creation> when they retire the studios condense and stagnate to obsolescence while releasing garbage.

[@raymond318]

Ironically, the more slop will result in publishers doubling down on big names (eg. Kojima, Tom Cruise, Scorsese) in a desperate attempt to get good PR. In 5 years, AAA marketing is going to be nothing but "From the visionary of [insert big creator], starring [insert big actor]".

[@ZeroXSEED]

ESA's argumen literally could be dismantled with one statement: "There's NO market for legacy games! Not from the companies themselves!" Only user reselling.

[@XBluDiamondX]

And user reselling is only because they tried to stop that (mostly to stop GameStop) and lost in court.

[@RobertStoll]

It's also absurdly expensive as well.

[@Techdeki0]

If a company is still selling a game, even if it's digital only, included in a collection, or even a remake/remaster, I get their argument somewhat. The kind of game I think of when it comes to archiving is something like Street Ball for DOS, which I played extensively as a kid but stopped being sold in the early 90s. If Bethesda is pissed because they own it's IP via acquisitions, that's their problem.

"There is no market"? We don't know… because they're not selling.

[@keeb__]

on abandoned hardware which actively gets taken down when re-created.

[@fabamatic]

These are the same bastards that say we should get used to not owning games

[@MichaelGGarry]

You've NEVER owned games. All they are doing is highlighting what has ALWAYS HAPPENED IN SOFTWARE LICENSING.

[@gabe_krl6911]

​@@MichaelGGarry then... If I had a physical copy of the game, I didn't own it?

[@Bacxaber]

@@MichaelGGarry I own my gamecube games. Nintendo won't break into my house and smash my stuff, even if they'd like to.

[@SanderEvers]

@@gabe_krl6911 no. You own a disc or cartridge with a licensed installer/program. You don't own the source of that installer/program. So you don't own the game. Only exception are open source games, there basically the 'community' owns the game. Same goes for a download even from GoG, you download a licensed program. You own the download, not the progam.

[@TescoShopperSupreme]

Hate to tell you this, but you don't own your games on Steam either. All you're buying is a license.

[@chillgoblin9103]

The limitations on programs are literally everywhere. In college, I was in a micro-electronics engineering program, where we were taught how to construct programs, create servers, databases, pc compatible micro-boards with programmable chip-sets design and manufacture, etc. Learn every single basic facets of what one can do and taught how to do it and then from there get into a university specialization with the advantage of having access to a broad knowledge of every other aspects. Every programs we used, except for a few very special ones that purely existed under licenses, our teachers would give keywords to search for freeware or personal use free licensed program to teach us. Not because they didn't want to pay license, but because many design programs are "lost" programs, no longer distributed or supported yet still widely and heavily used in the industry. It's maddening.

[@aBoogivogi]

Holy shit. Using an entertainment product for entertainment purposes. Who would do such a terrible thing?

[@exosproudmamabear558]

Dont you know poor people having fun is one of the deadly sins for monopolies. No exceptions.

[@dr.insignia7361]

@@exosproudmamabear558 this is like a child doing something shitty because they’re having a bad day and they don’t like when other people are having fun without them…

[@ember9361]

@@dr.insignia7361 yeah, main difference being the child is just acting out for not having their needs met, companies, on the other hand... no i shan't describe on these google owned lands...

[@GTA2SWcity]

@@aBoogivogi Right? It's almost as if they are trying to invent ways to make us into criminals and terrorists.

[@GTA2SWcity]

​@@ember9361 Oy Vey! Stop noticing!

[@JovencitaPera]

Walt Disney completely and irreparably ruined the concept of intellectual property for everyone but a very few amount of grotesquely fat cats, that are intent on sitting on millions of ideas that they didn't even create or helped to create.

[@Omega_speed]

@@JovencitaPera Walt Disney the man or Walt Disney the corporation?

[@poudink5791]

Walt Disney didn't really do anything, actually. The US increased its copyright restrictions to match the EU. That's all.

[@tmdiz4579]

skill issue~

[@faelwolf1177]

@@poudink5791 If only they would copy the consumer and privacy protections....

[@hubertnnn]

@@poudink5791 Disney (the company) was responsible for increasing copyrights from original 14 years to what we have now long before the EU was even formed.

[@dxc_savo]

We are living in a digital dark age right now. Should the internet go down, somehow, billions of dollars of art will go with it. Video games, movies, videos, music, books. We forget how much ownership means to us as consumers, but we choose to just go with it in favor of convenience. Piracy isn’t theft if buying isn’t ownership. Piracy is preservation. It’s a shame we have to resort to doing it if we ever want to own something digitally.

[@shadowflash705]

And internet *can* go down easily. Look for Carrington event aka geomagnetic superstorm of 1859. It will be the least of the problems if such event will occur though.

[@gerekgerek9042]

Piracy is a moral obligation now, and has been for awhile, people get really mad at me when I say that but if buying isn't owning and preservation isn't allowed by law then you have a moral obligation to ignore that law.

[@TheAverageDutchman]

It should be very simple, if it's not (easily and obviously) commercially available (so no hiding it in a single gamestore in Kazachstan that only opens every other Thursday from 9:00 to 9:10) it should be free to preserve and share. Want to keep the rights to a game? Keep it available. It should be that friggin simple.

[@dmen89]

Indeed, actively use the specific IP, or lose the exclusive rights to it.

[@autobotstarscream765]

​@@dmen89Like every other medium.

[@Talik13]

3:09 -- unfortunately they are ACTIVELY TRYING to make film, books, and music the exact same way. Literally earlier this year Hachette and other major publishers just struck down the Internet Archive's ability to keep and distribute the books they've been archiving digitally.

[@matteste]

They are actively going after real libraries as to these people, libraries are somehow piracy dens and thus should not exist. Hell, there are some out there that unironically want copyright infringement to be treated as a capital offense (a.k.a death penalty)

[@GBR9794]

@@matteste you own nothing except being forced to keep buying the newest junk for our stockholders' happiness. noice

[@UnsoberIdiot]

@@matteste It's a mix of greed and hate- some just want profits, some want to destroy history.

[@worlore1651]

@Talik13 that's because internet archive was giving out infinite copies of books for free

[@iucss8658]

this is the modern equivalent of the Dark Ages

[@gooburr411]

"preserved works would be used for recreation" THATS A GOOD THING!!!!!!

[@YouGotTheL]

It's almost as if games were made for that purpose! Are they insinuating that it's no longer gaming's purpose? 🤔

[@Reaverbot7]

@@YouGotTheL The modern purpose of video games is fleecing addicts by using dark patterns.

[@hikaritakahashi9411]

Exactly! "Recreation" means an activity done for ENJOYMENT.

[@ShuckleII]

Corpo: "They won't play our new garbage if they have old games!" Senile law maker: "Oh... Yes, we must destroy history then to make way for unreasonably worse products!"

[@GunNlazor]

A good thing for you, maybe. Not for the companies that want to profit as much as possible selling you games, who'd rather you didn't play old games they're not going to sell or maintain, and participated in the current market instead. They don't really care if you want to play those.

[@Jackpkmn]

If the economic value of selling old video games is so low then the economic damage from releasing them for free is also tiny.

[@McJorneil]

"Oi you! Stop using common sense!"

[@hoi-polloi1863]

Except... it's not your choice. You don't get to donate someone else's IP to the masses. Go write your own game, wait for people to stop buying it, and release it for free.

[@Jackpkmn]

@@hoi-polloi1863 If you don't care enough to re-release it you don't care enough to retain it. IP law may be how it is due to Disney's eternal meddling but that doesn't make it right. It was never intended to last this long. Also vaulting stuff for tax write offs should not be a thing, if you want that tax write off it should immediately go into the public domain. It's absurd on the face of it to suggest that these corporations would stop producing the media that makes them their billions of dollars if they didn't have over a century of copywrite protection on those things.

[@Jackpkmn]

@@hoi-polloi1863 My original response got shadowbanned. I will only say here that I understand that you think wrong. But the original intention of IP law was not so that owners could hold onto things forever.

[@Cerebrosum]

@@hoi-polloi1863 Whose IP? The people who made them are long gone from the companies The IP isn't owned by any person anymore.

[@Goatcha_M]

I'm of the opinion that if a company refuses to sell a product, then any argument they make about lost revenue is moot and any pirate copies are thus legal by default. This includes not releasing media on new hardware when the old hardware becomes obsolete and zone restricting the media. So if something is only available legally in the USA, then bootleg copies in Australia aren't piracy, and if something is not available either on DVD or streaming, then they have no right to complain about "illegal downloads" And of course Emulators. Re-Release your games Nintendo!

[@dead-claudia]

agreed and this should be encoded in law, with at most a condition that no "substantially equivalent" alternative exists.

[@Goatcha_M]

@@dead-claudia That's what I meant, but forgot to say, it should be International Copywrite law that, all of the above.

[@YodaMan-420]

i miss the old days when devs would not only let people mod their games, but also gave us the tools they used to make the game with so we could...

[@Dusty--]

That still happens with some games.

[@Arthur_Grey34]

It's still a thing for the majority of the popular single player games. They don't always give you tools but they love modders as they earn the devs more money in the long run.

[@brianpass1]

@@Dusty-- older games maybe, not any AAA games in the last 8 years. edit: yeah i had forgotten about a majority of those games.

[@BOFH_]

@@Dusty-- Nuclear Option is a blast from the past in that sense, if you will excuse the pun.

[@iownall2222]

You can blame blizzard for that. With the whole DOTA fiasco caused a change in the legality of mods and how developers looked at them.

[@spazmagoog]

They've got to be complete idiots to think that leaving no legal means of preserving old games will have any result other than forcing illegal means of preservation.

[@rhindlethered]

You're using that "preservation" term again. We all know this isn't about preservation, it's about access. But if you admit that, you have to admit you just want to play the games and that doesn't make you look so good, now does it?

[@ShuckleII]

@@rhindlethered Laws are supposed to protect the weak, the strong protect themselves. But this law now shot the weak games fully dead. That's not protection of the weak, it's extermination. Whoever caused this change should lose their job forever. Supportless games are endangered resources that could benefit humanity FOREVER, INFINITELY. They deserve to be preserved, for the benefit of all humanity, just how you protect endangered animals and nature. It's not going stop the industry from selling new games, new games have more quality potential simply for being new, thus the modern industry will never be in danger. If games deserved to exist, to be developed and sold in the past, it was because they were good, and because they are good and deserved to exist, they deserve to be preserved for the future, forever. It is an incredible benefit at the cost of almost zero effort. If the developer doesn't want to provide copies (or licenses, yikes), then the right to preserve and share the games should be given to the population. This stuff about games for research purposes is nonsense. Games are for playing, and games are easy to store and keep alive. They are a benefit to humanity, typically exchanged for money. If they are no longer sold or distributed, there is ZERO reason not to preserve the games. It has easy benefits and no downsides. More choice is always better for the evolution of products. The very economy uses the same strategy, spending near-zero effort for maximum benefit. If people justify that, then this is twice as justifiable, because it actually leads to high quality experiences, unlike products made with minimal effort that will inevitably have a drop in quality. May humanity one day collect and use billions of high quality products with zero effort. It is what the entire economy is seeks, abundant wealth. Get morally wrecked, stigmatizing freak.

[@malachiatkinson7245]

@@rhindlethered what are you on about. "oh, you just want to be able to access art, clearly you are an arrogant fool." which corporation are you white knighting for?

[@holyroman6541]

@@rhindlethered Why are you acting like "preservation" and "access" are mutually exclusive? This is partially about preserving access, too.

[@solair4553]

@@rhindlethered that's bait

[@erulogos]

The logic is actually very easy: they don't want to compete against their past selves. Even though all other art and entertainment, from books to movies to music, have to. Video game publishers want to be able to memory hole their old output to make it easier for them to sell newer, more expensive, and often lower quality, product.

[@cyruslupercal9493]

They are essencially burning books and erasing history.

[@ImGonnaFudgeThatFish]

Nintendo outright said this in their leaked documents. Monetizing nostalgia, make sure to always *rent* new version vis their subscription service instead of buying.

[@wul3391]

@@erulogos 100% this comment right here. I've been saying this to all my friends for years, it's the main reason why we don't get ports or hd remasters of most of the best older games in modern hardware, and they eventually make bad remakes to sell them like a new game but most of the time is a worse version of the game with modern graphics.

[@gn4rpz-the-c4t]

@@ImGonnaFudgeThatFish holy shit im so glad to see someone other than me fuckin saying this. i saw nintendo outright say that they dont want you to play old games when the new ones are right there in their anti-piracy section of the faq, but you cant fucking find this anywhere because nobody archived. i cant even remember what the original wording was for sure anymore, just the basic message.

[@eprd313]

It's called planned obsolescence. One of the prettiest creatures of capitalism.

[@isayaragnes8066]

I am a game designer, I work at a studio owned by a big evil publisher. I support the video games preservation and practice "piracy" whenever buying legitimately is not available. I do not consider purchasing second hand collectors items on ebay a legitimate way to purchase a game. If I can't support an IP by buying it from a digital platform I will pirate it with no second thoughts and I have no problem with people doing the same with games I worked on when inevitably they also become abandonware.

[@Flutter8utter]

These Corpos make me sick

[@vondred]

@@Flutter8utter the whole reason why they’re doing this is cause then they can force the youth to play the games that they want them to play thus further conditioning them to be the type of citizen they want them to be cause I know right now a lot of people that play video games in America don’t even know their constitutional rights that’s why they allow video game companies to be able to censor themwhich is 100% illegal in the United States

[@nukekilla432]

Bronies and commies coming together like you two make me sick.

[@eliottbourgois1651]

johnny silverhand origin story

[@RiversJ]

What free market?! Pardon me but are you quite well or just daft? A modern corporation is not a free market institution, there are more papers on the subject than most people read in their entire lives. This is a state institution, granting them dramatically privileged status and powers far in excess of persons, which they are considered as a technicality that was meant to ensure they didn't get out of hand. And out of hand they got, most of the free market thinkers of the 19th century considered the corporation as an equally dangerous institution as an unlimited democracy (most violent regimes of all times mind you) due to the absolutely insane incentives they would have and strongly argued against them being allowed to exist. With or without safeguards, which were implemented mind you, we can all see how well that turned out, that is to say it's been a disaster only eclipsed by socialism in history and that race is uncomfortably close depending on metric used. Arguing for socialism or corporatism is an equal opportunity race to the bottom of human behaviour. If you publicly argue for either, you should not be allowed Any political rights, to safeguard sane and rational people against the lunacy of socially acceptable sociopathy.

[@wafflestcattash4818]

Damm okay jhonny silverhand

[@Geeknificent]

The fact that they are concerned games would be used recreationally is wild to me. USING THEM RECREATIONALLY IS THE ENTIRE POINT OF A GAME

[@SimuLord]

That cracks me up, that phrase "using them recreationally", considering a certain green thing that gets legally defined that way in blue states...

[@ShuckleII]

"We can't have you have fun without giving us money, even though we're intentionally not offering you fun at a price, now can we? You will only have fun when we want you to" TURBO SOCIOPATHY!!!!!!! **John Cena music**

[@brycedery9596]

@@ShuckleII love it

[@RaynaGrimm]

i knew they were trying to make live service games a second job for people with them awful grinds... this only adds to my thinking so

[@Sonny_McMacsson]

@@SimuLord In blue states like Alaska and Montana?

[@KaiserMattTygore927]

Piracy is preservation, we can no longer play games through corporations, because there will be no games left. All this does is GUARANTEE that Piracy is the only viable route.

[@mrconroy4672]

Until the day it crashes into the sea. Sadly, it’s likely going to happen in long term if the general majority of the internet let it happen.

[@Johan_the_Marshal]

Yarr Harr it is then

[@Veritas.0]

Piracy modifies the original many times. That's not preservation.

[@hexmelshenker]

Yo ho ho, already on it

[@erichdegurechaff9515]

@@Veritas.0 No, piracy just modify anti piracy measures. When one game removes DRM officially, this is same thing.

[@skrie]

Close to where I live is a video game 'museum'... which is basically a giant arcade where they've done just that. Store all the legacy hardware for all the legacy games. And people get to play them. It's wildly popular.

[@northstar6920]

If buying isint owning Pirating isint stealing.

[@mrconroy4672]

I concur, unfortunately, things are looking dire for the future of piracy. People in said communities still need to do better long term instead of being complacent.

[@TheDaxter11]

Just modded my PSVita last week and I've been having a blast downloading a bunch of PSP and PS1 games using PKGj, both ones I've had before and one's I've never had. Fuck them, me doing this isn't going to make them bankrupt, and if it did it's their fault for not providing good ways for us to play these older games.

[@megaman37456]

@@mrconroy4672 I mean no it isn't. Piracy will exist regardless. There's nothing any Governmental body can do to stop it, hell modding is illegal in japan with prison sentences and people still do it cause fuck the corpos.

[@rossstewart9475]

I instinctively pinch the bridge of my nose every time I see this copypasta. Buying isn't owning. Piracy is copyright infringement. Stealing - theft - requires the intent to deprive someone of property without permission or intent to return it; It's simply not applicable to digital software licensing. Yarr away as long as copyright law remains ill fitting for purpose say I, but I beg you: Please stop reposting this.

[@Anonymous-bk9xy]

*Pirating is now the morally righteous high ground.*

[@fanglespangle110]

Ironically I learned how to crack games and pirate them BECAUSE the games I wanted to play were no longer commercially availible.

[@RadikAlice]

Ah yes, DRM. The scourge of the earth

[@TyDreacon]

That's what baffles me. Whether legal or illegal, people are going to do what they can to preserve and access art, be it books or films or games. By forbidding legal access, they push for illegal access. Congrats: you've taught a plethora of people how to pirate. And since they're on the hook for piracy just for preserving an art form, every one of them now has little to no reason to stop at pirating older games.

[@hoi-polloi1863]

@@TyDreacon Very few people are into piracy for noble reasons of Protecting Art. They just want to play the games for free, without the IP owner's permission. It's kind of ... greasy.

[@cydragon2.099]

or if the game just seems to be the same price for years such as Skyrim

[@hobosnake1]

Remember classic WoW private servers? I do. If a company won't make their product available, why should we let gaming history go down the drain? It's messed up. Piracy is not always the term we should be using. If you just downloaded Stalker 2 for free, you're a damn pirate.

[@matt1863]

Imagine if this was the movie industry. Here's a movie on Blu-ray, you need an internet connection to our server to watch it, in 3 years we're going to turn off the server and you'll never be able to watch it again.

[@DarthTinderalla-qm9zw]

That's exactly how buying movies through subscription services work. I wouldn't even be surprised if they start putting Drm into physical disc

[@cimroa]

That is exactly what Amazon is trying to do. If you purchase a movie from them, even if you have the media on your PC, you *have* to play it using their proprietary media player.

[@BlueWoWTaylan]

That is what the 'streaming' services have become now. And they literally REMOVE movies you BOUGHT once the 'license' issues happen. So this shit is happening already

[@shinyrayquaza9]

Thats literally amazon

[@0LoneTech]

@@DarthTinderalla-qm9zw Start? They've been doing that for longer than they've used discs, or |he "drm" moniker. It has always been this same goal, too.

[@arthurmagson3533]

can you imagine if they told you libraries should be closed down because people might read for entertainment purposes?

[@SheepFreak2]

We dont want anyone to read old books

[@stronensycharte64]

1984

[@roadent217]

@@stronensycharte64 Wouldn't it be more Fahrenheit 451?

[@supermac8619]

The so many books that actually teach life long lessons are being banned while Bibles are being *enforced* in some schools. We live in a dystopian corpo wasteland

[@RoadsOfShadow]

This genuinely is one of the reasons traditional book publishing and the broader media economy didn't have ownership overlap for the longest time. Media executives hate keeping legacy material availability and always have. They'd prefer everything published disappeared after three months, and you always had to buy new.

[@Broomer52]

Their argument was genuinely “we don’t want people to be able to buy or play old games because people might prefer them over new games” if that’s an actual concern then maybe they should change their entire approach to making games

[@Rai2M]

How can you "steal"' or "pirate" something that is not going to be sold and you *copy* that?

[@MichaelGGarry]

BECAUSE YOU DONT OWN IT. The OWNER has the right to sell or withdraw from sale, you do not have the right to just steal it.

[@anothisflame8266]

No but we do have a right to our collective history and culture.

[@arfink]

@@MichaelGGarry that's such a bullshit answer. We're at the point where the Library of Alexandria is being burned to the ground and it's illegal to rush in and save the books. At this point, piracy is morally right.

[@maxtravers1314]

@@MichaelGGarryand this thinking is why films like Metropolis and Nosferatu were almost completely lost to time. Because what is irreparably damaging the fabric of collective human culture and depriving our descendants of important art and culture, in the face of billion dollar companies actually making money off the IP that they hoard?

[@hoi-polloi1863]

The same way that you aren't allowed to copy the text of Tolkien's books, and use them for whatever purpose. Ya ever read the copyright notice on physical books? Lots of text like "No portion of this book may be reproduced in any form without written permission from the publisher or author, except as permitted by U.S. copyright law."

[@ahmedshaharyarejaz9886]

The Pirates have become the Preservers. What a world we are living in.

[@McJorneil]

We can just call ourselves Game Hunters like in Hunter x Hunter

[@hoi-polloi1863]

Except that it's not true. Let's be real here. How many of us pirate games to Nobly Preserve Art, and how many of us do it because we want to play frikkin Donkey Kong for free? Let's not get too puffed up on our own righteousness here.

[@Zax-dq5sr]

@@hoi-polloi1863 it's a mix bag, there are plenty of people that would willing to play (for a reasonable price) for old game just to play again as well, like many people said before, Pirates for current game are mostly service problem, not pricing problem. Those that don't want to pay for anything in the fist place would not change their mind, but those who willing to do often find Pirates offer them better service than the actual official way.

[@ialwayswatchyoutube812]

@@hoi-polloi1863 me, i do

[@SeaAycheEyeEye]

​@@hoi-polloi1863Yeah let me just get a fresh copy of donkey kong country and an SNES directly from Nintendo. Oh wait, I can't do that? Hmmm

[@partyhooty4141]

Well, at this rate, music shouldn't be preserved either, can you imagine if people begin to *listen recreationally* ? The nerve !

[@ambds1975]

God forbid they just make better games and stop trying to punish us for not liking their corporate trash.

[@mediumvillain]

doesnt even have anything to do with that, the quality or lack of quality of contemporary games, it's about the corporate trash trying to remove all standard media protections from video games exclusively

[@0LoneTech]

@@mediumvillain It's not just targeting video games. That's essentially a staging ground; an intersection of undervalued artwork, proprietary software with its complete absence of any guarantees, and games that some people consider unimportant and thus uninteresting to defend. This madness is spreading, with functions removed after sale by remote and premeditated sabotage. It has hit medical, agriculture, communication and transport severely as well.

[@ambds1975]

@@0LoneTech Exactly so. They have been trying to do this to every industry for years, but the gaming industry was the perfect breeding ground for this stuff, as you point out. I was hoping a few years ago that gamers would stand up and translate that resistance into fighting back against the corporations picking at the edges of every aspect of our lives. Don't just not let them to do this games, don't let them keep doing this to *everything.*

[@rhindlethered]

The one has nothing to do with the other. Nintendo makes fantastic games all the time and they are very much on the side of the ESA.

[@Lightscribe225]

Ol' Rindle is working overtime crapping in my hand and calling it fudge.

[@Exis247]

Piracy is the best game preservation tactic. Not only is the game preserved, it's preserved in a state where it's playable almost no matter what.

[@mrconroy4672]

Unfortunately, too many people in the general majority of the internet take it for granted and are too complacent for their own good. It’s why I have doubts that it’s not going to be with us long term.

[@YouGotTheL]

​@@mrconroy4672it'll always be a thing

[@ProsecutorValentine]

Piracy, and - the good old stuff: community backed up game files and installers such as Abandonwares. Abandonwares outside storefront like GOG, have been doing game preservation for a while, "commercial preservation" be damned as it will always be the purest way to preserve. No gods, no masters.

[@OriginalUnjustifier]

@@mrconroy4672 There will always be a demand, ergo there will always be a supply. There are also 'Good Samaritans' who, like the old man planting a tree, seeks to enable others to benefit from his actions while failing to achieve a benefit for themselves, and these are the people who will 'circulate the tapes' so to speak.

[@slayparty]

Piracy is also community driven which is the only thing we really have left besides a select few companies who actually care about us as people lol. We can't stop

[@Cylonknight]

It still blows my mind that game mechanics can be patented. You can paint with the art style of Picasso if you wanted and sell the work, as long as it’s not a copy of his work and just using an art style. Games are a version of artistic expression, mechanics shouldn’t be able to be patented. That type of law and thinking narrows the expression someone could have if it so happens to be similar, like the nemesis system or catching an animal in a ball. People say capitalism spurs innovation, but it seems to hamper a lot of other things.

[@planescaped]

It's mostly that we're in a capitalist dystopian future. Sci-fi eventually becomes reality.

[@Pwnopolis]

Law is never lawful, it sides with money and power.

[@iyziejane]

Game patents are some relatively recent BS too. Imagine if Nintendo had patented sidescrolling platformers back in 1985, they would have had a slice of 90% of the games for the next decade.

[@leonthayne]

@@iyziejane Nintendo has been patenting game mechanics since the 1980s, it's horrible.

[@MilkshakeGuruTTV]

@@iyziejane They did patent that stupid ball tossing though hence suing Palworld lmao.

[@darkevilazn]

So they WANT you to pirate video games. Got it. Never before have I seen such a self defeating argument.

[@VegaNorth]

They’ll want to criminalize their userbase

[@flexforthetube]

87% is a crazy number... 87% of *EVERYTHING* before 2010 is even crazier...

[@vonb2792]

@@flexforthetube movies is like 95%

[@dxtrum]

​@@vonb2792 really? You can buy most old movies digitally online if they aren't available for streaming

[@StormierNik]

They're terrified over the concept that they can't hold onto a property then release it later on a remastered upcharge to sell based on nostalgia.

[@UGS4697]

@StormierNik that 'nostalgia' will run out as people who never played it before hate the graphics, and the bugs.

[@exosproudmamabear558]

​@@UGS4697Yeah they are idiots because of that if I was the company I would give the original for free then make updates a few visual changes then sell it every five years so. Get rid of last updated version once a new one comes out while original stays the same. Profit.

[@benayers8622]

saw something called 'dead rising deluxe DEmake' recently it was offensive how bad the newer one was it uses 40x more memory and power yet was inferior in every way, thats even without counting the added handholding bugs and removal of non PC stuff like changing the word sexy to 'cool' and the voice acting 🤦‍🤦‍just dno why they changed the voices its soo bad now

[@exosproudmamabear558]

@@benayers8622 Yeah I forgot they cant even make remakes or remastered versions at this point. Yeah they should continue what they are doing they cant even do this

[@UGS4697]

@exosproudmamabear558 honestly what they should have done since the beginning which I know this might be expensive, but previous titles of a previous console should be downloadable only, cost $135 before tax, and that way we have game preservation a legal way, and we would be discentivized from purchasing it due to the extreme expense, and it would more incentivize the purchase of their newer games like they do now.

[@Sabagastache]

We should have a "The ESA Sucks" gamejam with the theme of them as the villan in every game.

[@atbauchat]

Bet. We can use The company, Hell divers 2 and DRG as thematic examples.

[@hubertnnn]

I wonder if its possible to legally force the ESA to be disbanded.

[@Foogi9000]

​@@hubertnnn That'd be amazing ngl

[@TheSuperappelflap]

I really dont get why you have such a problem with the European Speedrunners Assembly.

[@hubertnnn]

@@TheSuperappelflap Because they are not speedrunning the copyrights.

[@avi8aviate]

"Oh no, old video games might do their job!"

[@LC-uh8if]

One change to copyright law should be a "use it or lose it" rule. Copyright terms would be shortened and based on the type of media with Video Games and Software having the shortest while books and movies have a longer copyright term. Additionally, after lets say 10 years if a piece of software or video game is no longer commercially available for new sale the copyright would expire.

[@abaddon1503]

So kinda like when Nintendo had to respond when people started calling consoles a “Nintendo,” I’m down

[@rossstewart9475]

This is how trademark law works, and is absolutely how copyright law should work.

[@matteste]

That would also save orphaned works and the like that otherwise would be stuck in copyright limbo.

[@exosproudmamabear558]

Even if this doesnt happen I think they should just be forced to make it public domain if they dont give it freely or sell it with a reasonable price. You dont get to hoard it if you dont make money out of it.

[@Alex06CoSonic]

@@exosproudmamabear558 I agree, but these companies are going to argue that hoarding IPs creates a higher valuation on their business. Kind of like owning real estate. You can have land and not do anything with it, but if you own several plots of land, you're worth more than if you didn't own any. Even if you don't develop anything on any of those plots. Otherwise, why would Microsoft have bought Activision? Or Bobby Kotick even felt comfortable selling? That was his hole tactic, he was the master of hoarding IPs. And he did it for this very purpose - to up the value of Activision and then sell it to someone larger, in this case, Microsoft.

[@digitalsquid6031]

To promote the legacy book market, maybe we should start destroying hard drives full of classic literature. After all, we don't want people to potentially read books for entertainment purposes. Because that would hurt the book market

[@vlachwalla5441]

@@digitalsquid6031 you joke but there are actual people who’d believe this is beneficial

[@Alex06CoSonic]

Aaaand Fahrenheit 451, here we go

[@StormsparkPegasus]

I'm completely ignoring copyright and doing what I want for the rest of my life. Downloading huge amounts of old games and storing them locally.

[@FinnLovesFP]

It's what I've been doing. So far, got a 2TB and 1TB Drive filled up of various games from the past 2 decades. and a 5TB drive maybe almost half filled. Most of them I currently already own to begin with. But steams not gonna be around forever, and sometimes I'd build a system for the era of games I want on there. and since steam no longer works on windows 7 now. along with vista and xp. It makes a great option. Making those systems purley dedicated gaming rigs to play that specific era.

[@ZephyrusAsmodeus]

Feel that

[@RaynaGrimm]

@@FinnLovesFP i fear for the day Gabe steps down or passes away. new leadership is almost always the first sign of downfall... sure maybe they have some good folks that will honor his name at first, but oh how i wish it was a thing that lasted

[@ThatGuyNamedRick]

Why store them locally? Distribute them (for free of course). Entertainment should not be hoarded, share the gift of games.

[@logandunlap9156]

@@ThatGuyNamedRick this has legal repercussions and is not advisable. i do, however, also encourage this course of action, but would advise proper discretion and caution to be exercised.

[@annaskaaki9584]

The greed of the gaming industry is getting ridiculous, glad to have some coverage on the legal stuff.

[@Alex06CoSonic]

Sadly, it isn't just the videogame industry.

[@Cosmonomicron]

This is ludicrous... I guess we should get rid of museums too since everything has already been catalogued in a book somewhere and now the museums are just for "recreational purposes" by that line of logic. Why is the entire planet going downhill? Am I the only one that feels like I'm taking crazy pills here?????

[@SimuLord]

We need an Ian McCollum for gaming. "Hey guys, thanks for tuning in to another episode of Forgotten Hardware, and today we're at the San Jose Museum of Computers looking at a TI-99/4A from 1982..."

[@Para2normal]

You are not alone, I promise.

[@Sephylis-tl4ll]

You're not alone. The world seems to be experiencing regression.

[@ferrofluidfangz]

it might help to do some research on society after past plagues :/ history is sadly repeating itself because we haven't learned

[@Hurricayne92]

@@ferrofluidfangz Human society seems to have a short memory it seems.

[@soulbite4897]

Considering all videogames are a mix of code (written text) and images/textures (artwork) and sound files (music) the real question is why videogames should fall under any special categorisation when all facets of them are already under other categories of copyright law surely?

[@anthonywarwick]

Whole is greater than the sum of its parts. A painting is just pigment and canvas right?

[@Operational117]

Because code is not just written text, it also includes machine code. And machine code has to be tailored to a specific target system. This is why you can't natively play an NES-game on PC, because PCs today use the x86-architecture but NES games run on the 6502-architecture. One instruction on the x86-architecture uses a completely different "opcode" compared to the exact same instruction on the 6502-architecture. Also, the structure of the entire instruction ("opcode" and "operands") are different; 6502 instructions are divided into bytes (byte 1 is the opcode, bytes 2 and 3 are possible operands) while x86 instructions' opcodes are divided into different values; instruction identifiers, register targets, direct values, memory addresses, etc. (and there is not even any rhyme or reason behind the divvying up of the opcode itself across the different types of instructions). And then there's the PPU vs GPU. The NES' PPU was designed to facilitate tile-based rendering (with pixel-precision sprite positioning) using integer values, but today's PCs' GPUs render using several layers of floating-point precision cores, with practically no integer-based calculations. Not to mention the speed discrepancy and rendering triggers. The NES uses non-maskable interrupts to signal the CPU to prepare the next frame's render data and is in lockstep with the TV display frequency. Today's PCs' GPUs don't need to follow that (but are able to activate V-sync, which is the modern version of a non-maskable interrupt tied to the monitor's/TV's display frequency, albeit with modern monitors able to easily hit at least 120 Hz, whereas TVs of the NES era were locked to either 50 Hz or 60 Hz (PAL or NTSC, respectively). The NES' CPU also runs at either 1.79 MHz or 1.66 MHz (NTSC or PAL, respectively), while today's PCs easily run faster than 4 GHz (or 4000 MHz) Compare that to actual written text, artwork and music; they are not machine code, they are data. And data can always be converted, you just need to know what the data is, where the data is, where the data ends and how it's encoded and stored. ________ TL;DR: Consoles throughout history were made with CPUs that used different architectures (and, thus, different machine code for the same instructions) compared to today's PC CPUs which use the x86-architecture; the games run using machine code, which has to be explicitly tailored to that architecture to run correctly; the CPUs all run at different speeds, the PPUs/GPUs all work differently and they are all designed to run machine code and render graphics in very specific ways; and the PPUs/GPUs have to function in lockstep with the TV's display frequency (similar to today's V-sync). Thus, one game for one console cannot natively run on any other console (or today's PC) except with hardware-based backwards compatibility (i.e. putting the entire console's system inside the new console along with the new hardware). The reason we can even run them on the PC today is through emulating this old hardware. ________ This is why I believe video games (and software in general) should fall under its own category, at least the machine code itself; the machine code of old games cannot natively run on today's hardware, they need emulation software to run; and old hardware won't last forever, either, as the circuitry inside the chips will deteriorate over time.

[@Foogi9000]

​@@Operational117 Actually, someone did manage to recompile the entirety of Ocarina of Time to work on pc. This includes modding it, you no longer need an emulator to play it on pc now because of that.

[@seantaylor2683]

@@anthonywarwick I would say paintings are generally greater than the sum of their parts as well. There are beautiful works of art created by talented painters with just a bit of paint and a canvas

[@Cyrus_T_Laserpunch]

It's kinda like how copyrighted dances work. The individual moves are all free to use (outside of some fringe cases of single-move dances with copyright), but if you combine them into the copyrighted pattern the owner can seek legal action against you.

[@mastermill79]

Sign the fking European Citizens Initiative petition 'Stop Killing Videogames' if you are IN EUROPE. We are at 380 000/1 000 000 signatures and 6 out of the 7 needed nations met the needed threshold. If you care about games not remaining playable after publisher support SIGN NOW! Europe is a large market. If this legislation passes it could have a global impact. No more having to sneak around to be able to play a game YOU PAID FOR!

[@TheOriginalDevaad]

As a citizen of the U.S... I have tremendous respect for what (admittedly little) of the EU's legislation that I am aware of. And as a former employee at a popular physical electronics store I've seen first hand that EU legislation does in fact affect worldwide markets. Nonstandard cables (Apple lightning cables in this specific context) are a blight upon consumers. And the environmental concerns the EU raised when they forced Apple to adopt USB-C cables for newer generation devices via legislation are a valid point. It took a while for Apple to get on board due to the logistics of such a change--but change happened. All over the world. Consumers complained to me often until I explained Apple was required to make the change for European devices, and that it was not financially sounds for the company to create two versions of the same product with only a charging port for a difference. After explaining to them that this was a step towards standardization they realized that, yes, this change is for their long term benefit even if there's a short term inconvenience. I don't expect social innovation out of my own country anymore, though I do hope that as previous generations age out of politics new blood might breathe new life into our government. And because of that I'm vastly grateful to the EU for trying to drive necessary changes in the world from within their own borders.

[@PaigeLTS05]

Is the petition for anyone in the continent of Europe or just the EU. I'm British and want to know if I can help.

[@daveasher2687]

@@PaigeLTS05 UK is excluded from this particular petition, but there will be another for UK specifically, as the previous one got vaporized with all other petitions with the parliament being dissolved before getting a proper revised response. I believe they are currently gathering details to make sure the resubmitted petition won't have as many openings for the government to give another lackluster non-answer response like last time, though getting support for the ECI is probably a higher priority right now as that succeeding would have way stronger results and current pace is slowing down too much to hit the goal by the deadline. So best way to help is to keep ECI progress alive and keep an eye out for UK updates. Accursed Farms channel posts all major updates.

[@eddie_dexx]

I signed that petition a couple of months ago. Hope it gets more signature. Every gamer in the EU should sign it.

[@Verschal]

done

[@groundcontrol0597]

Piracy will always be morally correct. Maybe not for indie projects, but people rarely pirate those thing compared to larger productions. In a digital era, money is support. Programs are free, they are literally worth nothing. The only thing that gives value to them is the effort and love put into them, and if the company creating something doesnt deserve your support, they most certainly don't deserve your money. Why pander to the corporate machine? Why pretend like you hurt anyone when you download a rom? The greatest deception in capitalism is the lie that companies are people. If these idiots are gonna misuse our money, why give them any?

[@LilFeralGangrel]

I dislike the title card because it implies that these corporations ever cared about anyone besides their investors. From their perspective there was no betrayal, no loyalty was ever owed. With that same token, that means no loyalty is owed by their customers. They are not owed custom.

[@dxtrum]

Well that's the quiet part out loud. We all knew they never cared now they are saying it.

[@fatfurie]

pirating forever.

[@karmadyllic]

Ahoy there indeed.

[@shadowgod1797]

man i wish crack watch returns someday i miss the og crackers

[@mrconroy4672]

Let’s hope it lasts for the long term because things are looking really dire out there.

[@hemmhumm5182]

Pirating since 2002🦸‍♂️

[@TorchdriveIndustries]

:(

[@watergood664]

Ironic how once upon a time, books were seen as recreational wastes of time and yet now we see reading as an intellectual hobby while gaming gets the same treatment books used to. You could use the exact same argument the ESA uses against games for books, but the existence of libraries would literally be the exact counter to anything they say. How to manage games rentals vs sales? Well how do libraries do it? etc etc.

[@BaurRavenblack]

The marketing process is the most dangerous enemy of the creative process. As long as sales matter the most, the developer will always be the cattle of the publisher.

[@Lightstation_]

The ESA doesn't want to preserve games. So we pirate them. Then the ESA will cry when we pirate

[@mrconroy4672]

People like us still need to do better. Enemies of that type are always malicious and unpredictable. Remember, the price of freedom is eternal vigilance.

[@ShuckleII]

ESA loves shoving the planet into vicious circles of suffering and lack of wellbeing. They just love the suffering. Misery loves company as they say.

[@arfink]

​@@mrconroy4672the price of preservation is piracy. Download it all, share it with everyone.

[@ctjk1982]

the simplest way to fix all of this. is for the copyrights instead of lasting 95 years. to instead go back to the way it used to be. before disney started the so call mickey mouse protection act. to no more then 40 to 50 years. this way games become part of the open domain. this would mean that any games that came out from the 1980s and older would become open sourse or public domain. and as the years goes by more and more games would follow.

[@mrconroy4672]

Sadly, that’s never going to happen under the current administration or the next one lest otherwise. There’s been so much damage done to the people and the government itself that it can’t be guaranteed they can make it happen.

[@Sparticulous]

Time for the doge to take this on. Email this idea to the doge!

[@Binxalot]

Same should go for the patent system

[@catrinastars]

The Big N would go nuts if they did that... museum and all that... um

[@Thundawich]

Sorry to tell you, but it isn't 95 years. Its when the author dies + 70.

[@alexgosan5707]

I am from a European country and my official city public library rents out physical games. It’s really nice

[@Hotarg]

@alexgosan5707 US citizen here, mine does, too. They actively ask what the public wants to be available as well.

[@Alex06CoSonic]

Many libraries all over the world do. That's not the only issue. Sure, there's the part about legalizing this (which I believe is shaky in terms of legality right now), but there's also the part about making games more easy to access or maintain - either through a digital library that one can access remotely, or through physical means, with the help of the IP holders - be it through manufacturing and/or lending old hardware and software. A lot of companies hold the source code and/or data for their older games on their servers or on backup drives and discs. But not all companies, and certainly not all games, are backed up properly like this, if at all. Many of these games are not easy to find and most older game discs will soon start to die off due to disc rot (which is a naturally-occurring process). For example, disc rot usually can start to show up 25-30 years after a disc has been produced. So, physical games from 25-30 years ago (so 1994-1999) are going to be lost forever soon. That's like, the era where FPS, Point-and-click and RTS games rose to prominence! Imagine losing all these classics that created and defined these genres!

[@Deathbykittens11]

@2:45 it's actually even worse than that. Smaug was hoarding physical objects, ones that were ostensibly irreplaceable. With modern digital distribution, these works of art can be replicated nearly instantly and distributed across the world for pennies. They're hoarding an effectively unlimited resource.

[@netmantis7387]

The correct answer is to ask the ESA where the market for legacy software is. As in where one can purchase legacy software. We want to support the market, and this threatens the market, therefore the market must exist. We need as many people as possible asking where the market is. And doing so publicly. We want them to be stating in public on the record that the market for these games does not exist. This way in three years we will have the evidence that this will not affect the market for these legacy games and software, as the market for this legacy software does not exist and will not exist.

[@crazydude5825]

This! As a community we need to bombard them with questions about how to legally acquire this game and that game, and then archive all the responses.

[@Alex06CoSonic]

That's a fantastic idea

[@Kaishen021]

I still remember the day where I decided I wanted to go back and relive a bit of my childhood and play Need for Speed Underground 2. Didn't feel like busting out the Xbox out of storage and getting that hooked up, so I went to buy it on PC - only I couldn't. Not on Steam, not on GOG, not on EPIC, and not on EA's proprietary shit. So I found a download for it. Within the week I had an email from my ISP saying that they would be forced to shut down my internet if I didn't remove offending copyrighted material from computers on my home network. Why the hell do these companies get to punish you if you acquire a piece of software that they just have sitting in a vault somewhere that they are doing nothing with and making no money from? Why the hell do they get to decide "hey, we're taking the servers for this multiplayer game offline because it is no longer profitable" while we get no reimbursement for the product WE bought suddenly missing advertised features? It is shit like this that makes me think copyright shouldn't apply to software at all.

[@Pwnopolis]

Vpn bruh

[@rift1067]

Wait, are you saying your ISP can track what you are storing in your hard drive? Or did they catch you downloading said files? If it's the former, that's fucked up. If it's the latter - always use a VPN.

[@shinyrayquaza9]

Ive pirated loads of stuff with no vpn, never got any warnings, maybe its my browser settings or the rom sites I use?

[@AkrimaSablosang]

@@shinyrayquaza9 you may also simply not be in the same country. some are really lax, or the users are rightfully protected from intrusive scrutiny (no one should be able to see what you download except you, unless there is reasonable suspicion of a crime, PERIOD.) by their government.

[@VertyPoo]

@@AkrimaSablosang In America it seems hit or miss. For example, I downloaded plenty from Vim's Lair for Xbox titles, never got anything, othertimes Ive had friends get similar emails from the same IP or different. On top of that some sites arent considered pirate sites, theyre considered abandonware which I think has different stipulations but I might be wrong.

[@AlisSpark]

If you're in the EU please sign the stopkillinggames petition if you haven't yet. We need a lot more votes!

[@lautarogomez9711]

It won't change anything...

[@TrueTotalImmersion]

I know it's difficult to believe in anything but at least it's something, if 1000 people say it won't do anything then it definitely won't do anything!​@@lautarogomez9711

[@AlisSpark]

@@lautarogomez9711 If you fight you can lose. If you don't fight you have already lost!

[@lautarogomez9711]

@@AlisSpark and so what?, we can't fight a war we cannot possibly win

[@HappyGick]

​​​@@lautarogomez9711 The message is JUST FIGHT. It doesn't matter if you have no faith in it. Fight anyway. Signing takes less than 5 minutes. Plus, your culture as a gamer is at stake. Google the petition and sign. Then if you want, just leave it at that. But you need to fight. Or do you think that bees will be afraid of you because you're bigger? No, they will never be afraid of you, because they outnumber you even if they're smaller. If one sting doesn't suffice, then maybe 100 will.

[@Did_No_Wrong]

Theres a reason emualtion is now considered the most improving aspect of gaming now, because some games have never been remastered or supported so emulation lets us play these old games. Unfortunately corporations like Nintendo have some sick need to kill all forms of it.

[@OdiousKiller]

This blows, man scummy tactics by publishers.

[@domjrl]

All they will accomplish with this is making piracy great again.

[@mrconroy4672]

That’s great. Unfortunately, it’s likely going to crash into the sea long term thanks to the ever growing general majority of people online taking it for granted and being too complacent these days.

[@niydfass1060]

@@mrconroy4672 complacency wont happen if people lose access to stuff they owned and want. people are going to learn how to get these things one way or another. Ive seen a loooot of people advocating for piracy nowadays, its definitely more widespread, if not as talked about for reasons such as not wanting their method shut down.

[@jacksmith-mu3ee]

Like so many pirate sites shut down

[@abaddon1503]

@@jacksmith-mu3ee They’re like hydras, the more go down, 3x the sites are built. Even happened to recently lost Yuzu and Citra mere hours after the shutdown, archives and everything. I think these companies know they can’t really take them all down, so they’re opting to straight up make it completely illegal, like Prohibition in the 1920s.

[@brendanlund6959]

"What happens whenever corporate interests get their hands on policy? We lose." Preach brother! That applies way beyond the gaming industry as well. Good old government capture is killing western civilization.

[@bdhale34]

This is what happens whenever greed leads policy. Corporate interests are the result of the cause, greed is that cause.

[@Grudgebearer4life]

9:13 what they’re trying to say is there’s 87% of games they can’t charge you for daily and that won’t do.

[@igorthelight]

Exactly! Don't mind if I "accidentally" would download some old games that I can't buy anymore xD

[@Alex06CoSonic]

Exactly. Why would EA let you play Wing Commander 3 for the 12th time, when they could have you play the new FIFA, and have you go down the Ultimate Team mtx pipeline, which would make them more money than a one-time sale of Wing Commander 3 or a Wing Commander 3 remaster?

[@ameno4780]

From what I've read in "This is not the end of the Book" it is absolutely the same for books in public libraries: the insane amount of wasted literature that is being thrown out of the window and right into flames. And now I guess it's time for video games to share their fate, sadly, because no way in hell will they provide open access to old games, because it's considered a "property" of these institutions. Sad corrupted world we're living in.

[@MichaelGGarry]

It is their property. Thats literally how copyright and the law works.

[@Redactedlllllllllllll]

Property, the only real American value

[@nullpoint3346]

@@MichaelGGarry The law is stupid. _Preservation of history_ is the _core requirement_ of growth and progress as a _civilization._

[@anna-flora999]

Books that are unused, damaged, or outdated to get weeded out regularly, yes. The reason being that libraries have a finite amount of space

[@ameno4780]

@@anna-flora999 yes, but the keyword is "unused" - and they're not being stored somewhere else, but just getting utilized. And the same is happening with old games, so instead of acquiring knowledge and experience from them, they're just going to waste. Like it's reasonable from a utilitarian point of view, but it's such a waste.

[@mohaa556]

When Piratebay is doing a better job at preserving old games than you, you shouldn't be allowed to have a say in how games are preserved.

[@hoi-polloi1863]

Whether or not a given old game is preserved is the decision of the IP owner, not you or me. Why is playing Galaga suddenly a human right?

[@debeb5148]

​@@hoi-polloi1863 It is a human right the same way reading or eating is, is it not?

[@hoi-polloi1863]

@@debeb5148 I'd suggest that games be treated like books, with the same copyright length. The government shouldn't censor games (or books), that's the human right. There is no special right that you can have any game you want for free.

[@ThatGuyNamedRick]

@@hoi-polloi1863 Last time I checked the UN Universal Declaration of Human Rights, both Education AND Entertainment ARE Human Rights. Something something "free expression" and all that.

[@rock21611]

​@@hoi-polloi1863So if I bought the rights to Bioshock, Halo, Ocarina of Time, Minecraft, and Undertale, by your logic, it's acceptable for me to remove those games from the world forever. Because that's what the risk is here. If games aren't preserved, they will eventually disappear as the hardware that still has them installed breaks down. And you think that whoever has enough money to throw around to buy the IP should just get to permanently erase them from the world.

[@Necropheliac]

Media just needs much shorter copyright terms under the law. 10 years of copyright and it becomes public domain. It solves quite a bit of anti-consumer behavior.

[@ShuckleII]

The more I think about it, the more I feel it would help all of humanity not have to deal with capitalistic bullshit.

[@professorhaystacks6606]

I think that's too short. The pre-1976 term of 28+28 years (renewable once, hence the plus) is fine imho, but we DO need some sort of 'maintenance fee' the way we have with patents. Now I would probably only apply them to Work for Hire, where they are owned by a corporation, rather than for works of individual authorship. Problem is the Bern Convention, the framework under which the US has copyright reciprocity laws with other countries. Part of it is you can't have registration and renewal requirements. Going against that means re-negotiating with every single country. So you need not just the US to do it but like 70 other countries, or you need politicians willing to make a decision that will result in a short-term loss to the economy in exchange for long-term benefits. Good luck with that.

[@ThatGuyNamedRick]

Personally, I think copyright should be attached to the original creator for their natural life. I can't remember what country did this (if any at all, Mandella effect), but if you create something and trademark or copyright it, as long as you yourself are kicking and breathing it's yours, you could pass it down 1 generation but you needed a really good reason . This prevents corporations from stretching out their control barring their insolvency. (And was the major push behind the "Corporations are people too" movement that failed miserably last I remember)

[@logandunlap9156]

good sentiment, bad implementation. i would also say that the natural life of the IP holder is adequate until a better solution is proposed. at the very least it would undo a lot of the damage cause by disney's lobbying to keep mickey mouse out of the public domain and that would be a great start.

[@kyleak96]

I do agree that 10 years might be a little short, but both 28+28 term and the lifetime of the creator would leave us largely in the same spot as most games are not 56 years old and most creators are not dead

[@Daniel-Strain]

Have two categories: (1) You may preserve but access is restricted - for old games that are currently available as a product from their owner, and (2) You may preserve and give remote access - for old games that are not currently available as a product. If a company wants to go back and publish one of its old games as a product again, they can inform preservation groups, which have to flip the switch to restricted - until the product is no longer available for sale again.

[@IsaacFoster..]

Video games have existed for more than a half century and we're still trying to preserve them cuz corporate companies won't. Something's gotta change man.

[@charge416]

This is why I kept my Gamecube and PS2 and N64 :) corporations are cancer

[@KaiserMattTygore927]

Same :)

[@Yuri-xx2gi]

@@KaiserMattTygore927 that's why I have a 2tb HD full of old games, several generations of consoles ready to be emulated

[@mrconroy4672]

The only one investing is at least Nintendo.

[@adenrius]

Unfortunately, physical games are not going to last forever. Your Gamecube, PS2 and N64 might not work in ten years.

[@mrconroy4672]

@@adenriusPeople can make repairs a service. It’s already known that people can mod their consoles like with GameCubes and wiis. You just need to know the right parts for it.

[@willywallyb2379]

If a game is not sold by any means for 20 years, it should be allowed to be put in a library, since it is obviously not sold. Also, if a game is remade the classic edition should be allowed to put in a library since it is not being sold as a main game.

[@Hurricayne92]

but that sounds way to logical

[@Mirality]

Even that's too long. Books end up in libraries while still being sold, and not even limited to academics only.

[@hoi-polloi1863]

@@Mirality I could see putting video games in libraries under the same terms as audio books; that is, only a certain # of copies can be borrowed at once.

[@kukuc96]

In fact make all copyright just 20 years. Exactly like patents. 20 years after creation (or release) it becomes public domain, and circumventing DRM on it becomes legal (and for all media, not just games). That would be what I would change.

[@Mirality]

@@hoi-polloi1863 Back when all games came on discs, a lot of libraries did actually had game lending. So did video stores. Both of these things died out with aggressive DRM and then purely digital downloads. Which is actually really dumb, because things like Steam and Gamepass can easily handle "pay small fee to get access to a specific game for a week". It just needs the rights holders to authorise whatever work is needed to make their back catalogue runnable on modern systems and available that way. Though part of the problem is that even the supposed owners of the game might not have clear legal rights to it any more; there's several games nobody is sure who technically owns it (after a maze of acquisitions), they've lost the code for it, or it uses licensed music or art they no longer have rights to distribute (since they were sometimes only licensed temporarily to save money).

[@nightsgiftstarrealm2627]

I think the quote "they arnt interested in changing anything unless forced" applies to a lot of things. Mostly laws, and compaines in these days. There are a lot of laws, people and compaines that arnt upholding things or doing incorrect practices and they continue doing so and they wont change anything unless forced becuase they simply dont care. Its not hurting them and its not like we have a choice.

[@Ssecave]

As someone outoside of the U-S, I'm def not surprised. Are we really surprised for a country that is in the majority of the case against consumer/ppl and always go for the ultra-capitalistic route ? If something will need to happen for games preservation, it will not come from there.

[@Hurricayne92]

Too true all the positive legislation that has affected the games industry is out of Europe of Australia that one time

[@domoniquebrooks816]

corporate =/= capitalist

[@rohamcsigusz]

​​@@domoniquebrooks816what capital does capitalists have? Lmao it's corporations that generate an absurd amount of wealth. And ofc there are those who are just capitalist bootlickers and call themselves capitalist but have no capital of their own.

[@MisterZimbabwe]

​@@domoniquebrooks816I mean, in the very loosest sense of the word "corporate" sure, but that's being facetious. In the context of modern day USA, you cannot separate the two.

[@slyseal2091]

@@domoniquebrooks816 corporate =/= free market, "capitalist" just describes how ownership works.

[@bulkvanderhuge9006]

"We don't want people playing our games FOREVER, we want them to have a shelf life so we can keep charging people for games"

[@megaman37456]

Me who plays pokemon emerald randomizers daily on my Steam Deck:

[@ShuckleII]

"We can't have you have fun without giving us money, even though we're intentionally not offering you fun at a price, now can we? You will only have fun when we want you to" TURBO SOCIOPATHY!!!!!!! **John Cena music**

[@Alex06CoSonic]

It's because they're entitled and old games are essentially competing with time you could be spending on a new game from the same company. Why would EA let you play Wing Commander 3 for the 12th time, when they could have you play the new FIFA, and have you go down the Ultimate Team mtx pipeline, which would make them more money than a one-time sale of Wing Commander 3 or a Wing Commander 3 remaster?

[@megaman37456]

@@Alex06CoSonic All I can say is, it doesn't matter if Nintendo ever manages to make emulation illegal or not, I'll do it anyway, because no bureaucrat is gonna tell me how to play MY games.

[@Alex06CoSonic]

@@megaman37456 ✊

[@Me_Caveman]

Copyright needs to be severely limited. Software especially. You get 20 years to sell it, and then it should be legally considered open-source.

[@Hurricayne92]

But think of the Corporati *ahem* I mean children

[@MichaelGGarry]

I have said similar for years. But not open-source, thats a totally different thing.

[@vaevictis2789]

​@@MichaelGGarryfreeware then?

[@kennyholmes5196]

What's crazy is, it used to be like that except even more customer-favorable. It originally was a limit of only a decade. Then Disney came along and mucked things up for the people.

[@rossstewart9475]

I'm not sure if open source is the answer here. Copyright law is completely unfit for purpose and I do wish more developers would willingly share their intellectual property, but I also accept that it *is* their intellectual property at the end of the day. Most people would I suspect be quite content with access to binaries, and would not require the source code itself. I would like to see copyright law get closer to trademark law: If a copyright holder does not actively protect and use their copyright within a reasonable timeframe (that's 10 years for most western nations) it falls into public domain. This would allow companies to continue to use and iterate on their properties, and would enable the preservation and use of those that become "abandonware".

[@720jlconner]

Greetings from California. Love the channel guys. Can tell alot of hard work and passion goes into each and every video.👍👍👍

[@IISkullsII]

I here by propose to rename "Game piracy" to now be called "Game preservation"

[@michaelgiertz-rath7994]

This logic has its merrits. The more copies exist of any given game, the better the chances get this game will be available in the future for "education".

[@sergiomarc4826]

I have a simpler yet more powerful idea to justify piracy, one that comes from another modern capitalism's blight plaguing this and many other industries: *IF BUYING ISN'T OWNING, THEN PIRACY ISN'T STEALING!*

[@2kwh]

just a bought a second hand ps2 and started burning dvds with fdvdb esr and it doesnt even require a mod,i dont need these big developers

[@kricku]

@@2kwh Fyi loading games over ethernet works like a dream, unlike usb

[@gojtron]

The ESA has always been awful and against the consumer.

[@kaijuultimax9407]

The ESA only exists to keep government regulation out of video games. Their whole purpose is to keep video games unregulated so that the publishers can do things like loot boxes and removing games you paid for from your library.

[@hoi-polloi1863]

They're not against consumers. They're against pirates, who want to play the games for free. If someone holds the copyright, you don't have the right to pirate it just because "I wanna play it!"

[@escape808]

If buying isn't owning, then piracy isn't stealing.

[@iempire100]

Everyone should be supporting physical media. If not gamers are just making the mission of AAA publishers easier and faster to complete.

[@onslaught147]

Lol no, physical media isn't the magic bullet you people think it is. Physical media expires, it doesn't keep forever. Disk rot is a real thing. And not all modern releases even get a physical copy. Plus having all that extra shit you have to drag around when you move is just infuriating. You can fill up a truck with the physical media I can fit on one HDD. Digital copies without DRM that are widely distributed is the ultimate way to preserve something. Anything else is a lessor form that comes with draw backs. But you'll need a eyepatch and peg-leg to get that DRM free digital copy.

[@XBluDiamondX]

Physical media isn't ever coming back to become the main medium to distribute software. Get over it.

[@tablettablete186]

​@@onslaught147Thank you, I was gonna say that DRM free should be the goal, but you just made a perfect comment!

[@DarthTinderalla-qm9zw]

Digital isn't the problem. DRM aka being dependent on remote servers is the problem even with physical disc. Only difference is I can't sell used games I don't play anymore which probably hurts low income gamers.

[@I_AM_BAYTOR]

Man I don't even have a disc drive anymore. Can't we just own the things we purchase digitally?

[@TobiasHarms]

Copyright should be returned back to previous non insane numbers. If I'm feeling generous give them 5 years of automatic protection with the option to extend it 5 years. The amount of media that is still profitable after 10 years is vanishingly small and I feel that the ones that are, have already earned all the monopoly they deserve. For instance the Beatles, Elvis, Tolkien and Rowling. It's extra infuriating that we are giving out monopolies to our culture to people who are long dead. Speaking of dead, with the rules being like they are today, any media created today, I will be dead before it will be free to the public to actually use in creating more culture.

[@jonas_bento]

Never considered any of those companies as my allies hence I don't feel betrayed. With that said if people actually care about all that then they should organize themselves agains't those companies because trying to do that individually won't suffice.

[@ryanpercival9823]

Always remember; If buying a game is no longer ownership, then piracy is no longer stealing. it is actually a public good now for the sake of preservation of a very important art form.

[@chernobyl169]

"We're afraid people might enjoy themselves without paying money for it" Imagine if book publishers behaved like this

[@matteste]

They in fact do. They are already on a crusade to kill libraries, seeing them as piracy dens. As a librarian myself, the amount of crawling we already have to do to appease these ghouls is disgusting. The only reason we even have libraries todays is simply from the fact that they came first.

[@ryojimata3708]

And publishers wonder why they are hated so vehemently.

[@ThatGuyNamedRick]

but but but, green light go up! That's why we have DRM! To stop those filthy piraters by making paying customers suffer.

[@Pixelflame5826]

"Write to your policy makers about this." Yeah, like they would care, actually they might just turn on games altogether.

[@AkrimaSablosang]

depends on the number of people who write, I'd say... Policy makers being often elected, it's in their best interest to follow what brings them vote. if one or two letters are sent, sure it can be counter productive... if they receive them by the thousands in their invoice, they're gonna do something about it, and in the good direction. there's no reason for them to hurt their own scrutiny after all...

[@ShuckleII]

Do it anyway, or you'll be left like a doomer version of the boy who cried wolf.

[@ThatGuyNamedRick]

You have to make it seem like they're the one's who would be targeted. Policy makers and gubernatorial figureheads are always about climbing higher on the food chain of politics. The key is to feed it to them as if they would be hailed as heroes for protecting Democracy and Human Rights to the access of education and entertainment, and the failures of not caring may mean their legacy is tarnished or worse, in this case erased from history. Who's to say this attack on games wouldn't spread to archiving media as a whole? An erasure of a game here - the scrubbing of a political dynasty there. They don't care about right and wrong, they care about LEGACIES. You'd be surprised how quickly people jump to action when political nepotism is threatened, you just need to point that powdercharge somewhere that'll do some good.

[@morgandraegar7301]

WE NEED PROTESTS!!!!

[@jefftank3300]

I see this as inciting piracy. Also, when filing a lawsuit over copyright violations. They should bear the burden of proof that they are being financially harmed. And if they are not providing a means to easily and legally acquire the game, then they are not being financially harmed. Thus the case should be thrown out.

[@professorhaystacks6606]

Copyright violation is a strict liability violation (not technically a crime), with statutory damages minimum 750 dollars per violation. That number assumed mass copying, and people making profit, and really needs to be updated. The logic is that financial harm is difficult to prove. The legal framework long pre-dates the internet, so it is a bit outdated.

[@bdhale34]

@@professorhaystacks6606 It's incredibly easy to disprove though, here let me show you. "Are you selling this anywhere for any monetary gain?" If they aren't making money off it at all they cannot lose money off it. You cannot take something away from nothing.

[@hoi-polloi1863]

Does this same reasoning apply to fine arts? Say I'm a painter. Are you now allowed to make and sell posters of my paintings without asking me? Is it still right for you to do it if I'm not currently selling posters myself?

[@vickysterling3342]

@@hoi-polloi1863 you are, here and elsewhere in this comment section, "just asking questions"-style evoking the image of struggling artists to defend notoriously ruthless bloodthirsty megacorporations. your rhetoric is flawed, and a more accurate (and sincere) comparison would be to compare the ESA with bigshot music publisher collectives who are equally money-hungry.

[@vickysterling3342]

also you've named yourself after an unflattering term for the people, the masses, so maybe side with the masses instead of the corporations

[@PinkHusky433]

The Copyright Office cannot change laws, only the US Congress can.

[@karmadyllic]

Sucks to be USian rn innit. Sincere sorrow and sympathy.

[@shirohawke9413]

Welcome to government over reach. As a gun owner, I must ask, "First time?" 😅

[@kman9884]

@@karmadyllicEh, not really. This is a blip in a subculture. It’s important to the subculture, but the US is still better off, overall, to most of the world.

[@Kidblurr02]

Tell that to every bureaucratic entity in existence that can makes rules that hold stiff penalties up to prison time if violated.

[@Mischievous_Moth]

@@kman9884 Better off than most of the world isn't a high bar to pass.

[@thegamerfe8751]

It's funny how we're entering 2025 in a month, yet videogames are still treated as just a product like food while books and movies are treated as an artform with more care than much more important stuff get. Videogames going mainstream was a mistake and I blame the big publishers that care more about the money they make than their employees.

[@christinesinclair6938]

This should be appealed ASAP.

[@Thee_Sinner]

Hey, remember that one time when prohibition worked? No? Me either.

[@Amexsos]

LMAO the ESA 'About Us' statement @5:50 reminded me of Surrento's speech to Wade Watts in Ready Player One. "When I want to blow off steam, I drink tab, play Robotron and listen to Duran Duran." Later Wade called his bluff about having archivists feeding him lines. Same feeling with this statement.

[@onslaught147]

Everyone should be pirating games. I understand if you're morally against pirating games because they hurt the game developers. But for older games? The older developers usually aren't even the current owners of the game's rights. Even if you can buy it, usually you're just paying some financial group. And in America, everything is about to become much much worse. The little consumer protections we had are going to be stripped away. And we'll see just how greedy these execs truly are. Buy what you can now, especially if it isn't made domestically, which is basically everything.

[@ForOne814]

Piracy doesn't hurt game developers. There's no actual data to suggest that it does.

[@kenmorris4384]

Piracy is a crime without victim.

[@kman9884]

@@ForOne814Piracy = less sales. Less sales = the dev team didn’t perform to corporate standards.

[@ForOne814]

@@kman9884 >Piracy = less sales Citation needed.

[@mrconroy4672]

Unfortunately, it could all go crashing into the sea long term, and the general majority of the internet and in real life would let it happen thanks to their complacency.