Ben 10 X Julie: How to WASTE a Character

Time to talk about Ben 10, did this come out of nowhere?
You bet it did
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[@SarcasticChorus]

Ending theme is too fucking loud, and youtube won't let me edit it. Avoid ear rape by watching here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/fYfZq5mqhbippck

[@mrkaji8913]

I want Ben to get the omniverse ultimatrix

[@herbal_breed]

pls see sonic 2 movie

[@rugby681]

Thanks I was about to leave a comment 😂

[@kimberlybogert7031]

Oh ok I say something about that I didn't know that was up thank you for the info tho^^👍

[@lukelichtenthal5407]

Now do another Hotel Transylvania one. This time how Winnie( and at times Dennis) deserved better. Just a thought!!

[@recun9071]

No kidding, this is one of the changes I hated the most about the whole franchise

[@recun9071]

@scale Yoooo, it's finally here!

[@ericmartin4479]

It was as big a jab at my side as the idea that Sanzaru Games, the guys who made the Sly Cooper trilogy for PS3, got to make a Sly 4 and ruined everything it built up before and left the ENTIRE FRANCHISE on a century long cliffhanger!

[@-AirKat-]

word

[@jdamourep]

This and Kevin's retcon. Are the 2 things that really hurt the show for me.

[@kidprime6863]

@@ericmartin4479 As a fellow Sly fan I can relate to that

[@GenerationWest]

The in canon reason they had to be broken up... Not causing a time paradox, so Kenny Tennyson could be born. It took me so long to get over it, and this video reminded me why I mad in the first place.

[@10Bendog]

Worst part is that it wasn't even necessary. Like, it has already been stated that every single time Ben meets his future self, his future changes, which is perfectly shown by how there's, like, 3 or 4 different Ben 10Ks. I really don't see why they couldn't have just made Kenny look more like Julie than Kai. The timeline is already different from the original, the Ben 10K is different, why did they have to bend over backwards to make his wife the same person when he himself wasn't the same. (Also, like, Kai was not even mentioned to be the mother in either of the OG's Ben 10K episodes. Yeah, it was confirmed in the pop-up trivia, but this franchise is so prone to continuity shifts that it's utterly ridiculous that they decided that this should be the one thing that stays consistent.)

[@JoelFeila]

@@10Bendog Actually the only pop ups mention That Ben did meet back up with Kai, and Kenny has a sister, and that KEnny is named after Ben's cousin. None of them say Ben married Kai. That said some did post that his name came from Ben + Kai.

[@10Bendog]

@@JoelFeila So even less reason to have her around. 😭

[@JoelFeila]

@@10Bendog yup

[@WildWeavile]

@@10BendogKenny LOOKS NOTHING LIKE JULIE lol, like if his mother wasn't Kai where did he get the tan from? I don't think Julie's dad had one much less then Julie herself... The tan is what makes Kenny different then 10 year Ben (besides increased intellect, I guess).

[@jinxtheunluckypony]

I really hope you cover Kevin and Gwen. Watching the tough guy, Kevin, awkwardly try to get closer to Gwen even after she’s directly told him she wants a relationship is priceless.

[@ArteiceTB]

Best ship in my eyes

[@exloster9624]

Unlike Julie and Ben, those two were actually a well done romance in my opinion.

[@jwagne5158]

So you like stories where the sociopath that almost kills and tortures the girl gets with that girl five years later? THIS is what is wrong with the world. First interaction with him shows he is still a criminal.

[@benzelwasington4059]

@@jwagne5158 And it changes nothing xD he Still will end up in the nullvoid with a son who he sure dident had with gwen living on the street being a horrible parent

[@pillowfullospiders3934]

@@jwagne5158 I don't think he ever tortured gwen or even attempted he DID try to kill ben tho but eh it's a good turn around since its really well written

[@webtely]

"Where every girl in the show wants to get into Ben's pants until fate tells him to settle for the worst one." As a person who dislikes Kai that line made my day.

[@PichuElric]

Lmfao 😭 Even in my cartoons I can't escape from tsunderes becoming endgame

[@optimus2008]

Kai Green is blasphemy I swear...

[@nnnnmhughuuhhjiijj9457]

​@@PichuElric That killed me.

[@xfrenzerx3307]

It’s irritating to see ben kai after rewatching the new mexico ep

[@Bl4ze-YT]

Except Gwen

[@lilil9752]

I mean Julie was a fine but generic nice girl, i think it would have been a little better if the writers gave her a dynamic with Gwen and Kevin, having her evolving as the emotional core of the team (i mean, there is not a lot you can do with normal-unpowered characters on a show full of aliens)

[@Couch_Banana]

Considering that she's able to wear Ship like a suit of armor ala Samus Aran I'm pretty sure it doesn't matter all that much if she has powers or not.

[@_Sage967_]

that's what i thought would happen with her getting Ship but instead they essentially robbed the series of one of it's most powerful characters cus mechamorphs are busted

[@muntu1221]

She _did_ have powers. She was one of the only people that could control Ship, and it was to the greatest degree to the point where she had a power suit. Heck, if she duplicated ship, she'd have a suit and a gun ship.

[@TheDawnofVanlife]

Every ‘man/woman in the chair’ would disagree with you. One you can have tech and not powers with super powered people if needed for a fight (Julie had Ship) and many series have that unpowered character who supports the powered characters in n critical ways. In fact, in Classic Ben 10, BEN was the only one with powers for a long stretch and the only contribution Gwen made to most young Ben adventures was common sense and a computer before discovering magic. And even in classic after she started working with magic she was more likely to use her brain then magic. Grandpa was just a human being with no powers and just training, resources, and skills.

[@matthewmazzatto8003]

Seriously, there are plenty of great examples of an underpowered tertiary character who's just as interesting and hilarious if not more so than the main protagonist. First one that comes to mind is Sokka from Avatar. His quick thinking, resourcefulness, and analytical approach to life balances out really well alongside Aang and Katara. There was room to make Julie a good character and a main-stay in this group.

[@darwinaguilero3175]

I liked them a lot, and knowing they were split just because the writers wanted to do something new really ticked me off. They couldn’t even do it organically? Man.

[@nicholase82]

And at the end they brought Kai back.

[@jordanread5829]

It wasn't so much they wanted to do something new, but because of the pop up trivia from Benwolf, Ben and Kai do end up dating each other. Even though Kai was only interested in Ben because he was turning into a werewolf.

[@thejester4130]

@@jordanread5829 they really didn't have to because none of the futures in ben 10 are set in stone, so they could've done whatever.

[@jordanread5829]

@@thejester4130 While true, that piece of trivia did not come up in the two obvious "this is an alt future episodes." Those being Ben 10000 and Ken 10. So I can suspect that the writers couldn't really get around that without it feeling forced.

[@kidprime6863]

@@jordanread5829 And don't forget she wanted to train him like a dog

[@soccer4207]

The thing is, I think this ship started off really well. For one, having Ben be interested in her but not act goofy and arrogant to impress her (as he had in the previous series) made Ben's crush seem genuine. Julie also seemed really cool. A little quiet, but we immediately get to see Ben go to one of her tennis matches and be able to flesh her out as a character a bit more. Then, of course, Julie's acceptance of the alien side of his life was the cherry on top. It wasn't some incredible romance but it did the basics right and I was interested to see where it would go. Nowhere. Absolutely nowhere. The romance is never developed and Julie is never developed beyond her introductory episode. What a waste.

[@kidprime6863]

I wish she evolved beyond being a side character.

[@au7923]

Every love interest Ben had is just wasted, what is the point of introducing them if it's gonna go no were? Just another example of wasted potential.

[@PichuElric]

@@au7923 Every love interest of his would have been great characters of their own if only they weren't his love interest

[@k.Angela]

@@PichuElric Oh my gosh, I saw you in a non-HoneyWorks!! I do agree with the love interest topic tho.. It's just sad.. Julie was an interesting character and got overshadowed by her pet instead of the other way around..In my opinion, Naruto was even worse in handling most their female characters and wasting all their development just to make them love interests in toxic relationships lol. I love Julie to bits tho, and her disappearance made me sad as a kid and I was pissed when she only appeared for the show to break her and her relationship with Ben even more..

[@PichuElric]

@@k.Angela BRUHHH hey XD Yeah I comment alot in HoneyWorks stuff

[@googamp32]

Indeed! Julie wasn't the BEST character, but the poor girl didn't deserve to be thrown out like a used tissue. Besides, the only other viable female character Ben could be shipped with was his own cousin!

[@floricel_112]

or that one girl he met that one SINGLE time when he was 10 in New Mexico

[@nathanielclaw2841]

The Ben from the ben 10,000 timeline married gwen and no one can convince me otherwise. I mean, seriously, go back to those original episodes and tell me otherwise

[@anime_bouy_]

@@nathanielclaw2841 u sure about this ?

[@airplanes_aren.t_real]

@@floricel_112 she was one of my favorite one episode characters

[@nathanielclaw2841]

@@anime_bouy_ look yourself. Their interactions are VERY sus

[@wildheartrazorfang6]

I think the other thing that adds insult to injury with Julie in Omniverse is that one of her defining character traits is her competitiveness and passion for athletics, yet in the game show with all the girls competing for Ben, Julie gets eliminated in an athletic challenge by not paying attention. If you want to have her not care about the contest or sabotage herself to not put up with Ben, why not have her eliminated in the game where you just have to be quiet? I get saving voice actress money, but they could use a groan or stock scream like they did for other characters. Even if the prize is Ben, Julie wouldn't be texting during a competition. Especially not an athletic one.

[@thomasraines1396]

Wow that sounds like complete crap.

[@kidprime6863]

@@thomasraines1396 more like complete utter crap

[@PichuElric]

Good point dude. They butchered her character just to get her out of the way

[@yashjoshijee2294]

@@PichuElric Nope. She was forced to participate in game, and she had a new boyfriend why would she will care for ben?

[@PichuElric]

@@yashjoshijee2294 One of her only character traits other than 'Ben's Girlfriend' was being competitive. But in that episode even Ester was more competitive than Julie and she already had a guy too

[@MIKasKiHy]

Even 10 year old Ben was less douchey and arrogant than Season 3 Alien Force Ben.

[@Nameless82284]

Yeah, Young Ben had his moments and strong character development. Even though he and Gwen didn't get along with each other, Ben was more than willing to sacrifice anything to protect her. Ben even admitted that at first, he wanted to be a hero but he realized he has to do what was right. This is another reason why we love Young Ben, he has character development. Not to mention that after the whole character arc Ben has gone through in seasons 1 and 2 of Alien Force, were thrown out the window. I get that the fame went over his head but that still seems out of character. It doesn't help that they try to give Teen Ben character development but it doesn't work because in one episode he admits his mistakes and in the next episode he's back to being a jerk.

[@kermitgotthesickkicks4265]

@@Nameless82284 Facts

[@fightingmedialounge519]

Young Ben's character development swung back and forth in the old show.

[@TheSkyrimps3]

I think start of omniverse was worse

[@PichuElric]

It was probably because its okay and realistic for a ten year old kid to be kind of douchey or arrogant, especially if they have something to be proud of (For Ben it was the Omnitrix, for young Gwen it was her academic achievements or smth), but a 16 year old acting that way has NO excuses

[@armaggedon390]

"Wow, Julie is so boring. We should get rid of her." "Why don't we just make her interesting?" "..." "..." "So, I was thinking of bringing back Kai..."

[@WildWeavile]

Then again Kai was a more interesting characther, the first ep with her is that she is basically tomb raiding and then she calls Ben because she actually needs his help not because she loves him or anything.

[@pillowfullospiders3934]

@@WildWeavile I personally hated kai especially due to "fate needs them together "(dispite every time ben sees his future its changes so ben shouldn't be actively becoming ben 10k) but she just wasn't fun

[@KhanhNguyen-mh5ec]

@@WildWeavile People hate her for the Ben wolf and Kenny.

[@yennefer440]

I like Kai. Her and Ben are good together.

[@kidprime6863]

@@pillowfullospiders3934 And not every future is written in stone. At that point, they were trying to canonize all that bonus trivia from the first show

[@Tsochar]

Honestly even the joke breakup could have worked if Ben and Julie could have had a real conversation later on in the episode. Have it so that Julie realized after thinking about it for five minutes that Ben wasn't actually mad at her, but that his outburst made her realize that she hadn't been happy in their relationship for a long time. That way, Ben has the chance to realize that he fucked up.

[@pillowfullospiders3934]

Thank you!

[@kidprime6863]

Why is it that fans are more creative than the actual writers?

[@forrygaming1617]

@@kidprime6863 Because fans care about the series, while writers change whatever they don't like. Reminder: Derrick J Wyatt didn't like a lot of stuff from UAF and was changing it, INCLUDING THIS.

[@1992holycrap]

It would've also prompted Ben to start doing better with his relationship with Ester. At least, I would *HOPE* it would've...

[@fernandozavaletabustos205]

I heard a nasty rumor that Julie was partialy created to stop certain people shipping Ben and Gwen. But because Julie was never a favorite in the show (which is a shame because I kinda liked her dynamic with Ben), those group of Ben / Gwen shippers (Bwen) went even harder and the pairing became even more popular (even if it was weird). In my country where I come from (Mexico), there was a sticker with a pregnant Gwen with Ben hugging her. After seeing it, I publicly yelled "WHAT THE HELLL?!!!".

[@kermitgotthesickkicks4265]

Oh shit i've seen cursed ben 10 videos with that poster and it disgusts me to my core.

[@fernandozavaletabustos205]

@@kermitgotthesickkicks4265 Yeah, it is wild.

[@eduardopantoja9115]

I don't want to generalize shipppers but there's a reason why shipping can be trash. This shipping was worse than the Ana and Elsa shipping.

[@sleepyeevee9255]

That’s probably also why they tried so hard to gwen x kevin. I actually really like Kevin and gwen together.

[@benzelwasington4059]

@@sleepyeevee9255 Yea Might be but even as the gwen kevin ship was even weirder for me to like to be honest xD with the whole plot of ultimate alien

[@funnyferret6064]

Also, WHAT IS HER CHARACTER DESIGN?! Her previous one was GORGEOUS.

[@mysticdigital5936]

Yeah, I don't like OV's art style or design changes tbh

[@kermitgotthesickkicks4265]

I like it because of The art director who worked on stuff such transformers the animated series, teen titans and Scooby mystery incorporated. Derrick J Wyatt knows how to make a show's artstyle stand out from the rest. R.I.P DJW

[@funnyferret6064]

@@kermitgotthesickkicks4265 I prefer the previous design for all the characters honestly

[@kermitgotthesickkicks4265]

@@funnyferret6064 Eh I found the uaf deisgns to be bland and boring. Especially the background designs and the reused character models. And literally every moment took place at night where it was pitch black and you could barley make shit out. Damn I went on a tangent.

[@pillowfullospiders3934]

@@kermitgotthesickkicks4265 adding to this I liked both designs for different reasons but I definitely prefer some of the omniverse designs (kevin julie grandpa max ect (

[@rabnerd28]

It's not abusive, but it sure is unhealthy.

[@nelzelpher7158]

Seemed normal to me

[@-redacted2554]

Eh the tennis episode is definitely emotionally abusive

[@jacobwilliams1223]

Nah Ben straight up was being emotionally abusive. The whole Tennis episode, Ben kissing a celebrity girl but then trying to gaslight Julie was still "his" girl, was bad man.

[@TheCommenterDragon]

I for one have always found Julie to be such an underrated character, and the fact that they made it so Ben and Julie broke up in the Omniverse series kinda sucked , but in hindsight Julie was always too good for Ben anyway so i guess in a way it was a good thing that they broke up...at least that's how i see it.

[@Gooberwares]

She had POTENTIAL that’s what made it more painful

[@pillowfullospiders3934]

Honestly when they introduced Julie I thought her and ben were compatible......uuuup until season 3 when cartoon network decided "BRING BACK IMMATURE BEN"

[@joseantoniovargas6548]

@@pillowfullospiders3934 I feel like that the right word to describe Ben in season 3 is.....asshole, that is what he became ESPECIALLY in the second episode to Kevin

[@JoshtheOverlander]

The worst part is the fact that they broke them up so that Ben could get with Kai, the girl who only liked him when he was Ben Wolf because she wanted to "tame" him, which is all sorts of yikes. They literally made better ships than Ben x Kai in Omniverse itself, yet this is the ship we got landed with.

[@Gooberwares]

@@JoshtheOverlander yeah it was creepy with Kai: lemme put a collar on you and brag about you to my friends

[@ArtTheGaleWind]

I'm glad you mentioned how so many of the franchises's issues came from corporate meddling, I love ben 10 and I do believe every main series has worth (the classic series speaks for itself, first 2 season of AF being just straight up a masterpiece in my opinion, season 3... had Rath and he's epic, Ultimate alien has some of the best one off episodes in the entire series like ultimate sacrifice + Kevin's mutated arc being great, and Omniverse's art style, overhaull writting and one off episodes being fun even with the slip ups and does have some genuine great comedy, and Ben's story involving Feedback was great and I loved the resolution of the Malware arc) as well as many flaws, but the main issue was always Cartoon network fucking constantly with the franchise and not letting the writters do what they wanted to do, like cancelling an entire planned third season of alien force, which is the main reason why season 3 is the way it

[@floricel_112]

I still can't understand how people enjoy omniverse's art style. It looks like a massive downgrade design wise to alien force/ultimate alien, which already felt like a downgrade compared to the original series.

[@kermitgotthesickkicks4265]

@@floricel_112 People mainly like it because of The art director who worked on stuff such transformers the animated series, teen titans and Scooby mystery incorporated. Derrick J Wyatt knows how to make a show's artstyle stand out from the rest. R.I.P DJW

[@galactic5076]

I heard somewhere that the original 3rd season of AF was going to be the forever knights Dagon arc but bc of studio meddling it became what it became. I don’t remember where I heard this so feel free to take what I just said with a grain of salt.

[@DeitySkullKid]

@@galactic5076 DJW had his own forums, as of now though, they're unfortunately offline, his wife wants to get them back up, but until that happens, a lot of talk and informative about the shows (because DJW would actually talk about the show on the forums, and I think other crew may have) is just lost right now, so that statement may have been on the forums, if the source can't be found

[@kermitgotthesickkicks4265]

@@DeitySkullKid Dang

[@jlinus7251]

Don't worry guys Julie probably ended up with someone who actually respects her. She deserved better than Ben anyway

[@brace4impact258]

She deserves better than a hero who sacrificed his childhood and social life to save the world/universe again and again. I know ben wasn’t perfect but can we cut the guy some slack he was a teenager, they’re not exactly known for being relationship gurus.

[@sinchitabhattacharya9794]

I don't think soo ,if ben apologize to her again and again she sure forgave him .

[@naqibdaik7241]

@@brace4impact258 no amount of slack worth is given for Ben to fuck up this much. If it was young Ben then I probably agree because no matter how much he fuck up he has his grandpa, but teen Ben?

[@jacobwilliams1223]

@@brace4impact258 Being a superhero doesn't justify being a general dick and the worst BF which Ben was. Nor is being a teenager a free pass, you are probably one of those people who think Ben kissing that celebrity blonde and toying with Julie's heart is fine because "he saves her" at the end of the episode.

[@fightingmedialounge519]

@@brace4impact258 he didn't really sacrifice anything. He still had a happy and fulfilling childhood and social life.

[@brainrot8802]

honestly, if they had taken even a single moment to think of something worthwhile for Julie, she would have been amazing. I remember always liking Julie a lot, and it would have been amazing to see her slowly evolve into a main character, using Ship regularly on missions with the group. She’s already a complete sweetheart, Kevin and Gwen both like her a lot, and she’s literally Ben’s GF… if they gave her some agency and treated her like an actual character instead of a prop, she’d probably be a wider fan favorite easily

[@sinchitabhattacharya9794]

Yesss I always love to see ben and julie together best ship ever ,I can't believe the broke up and I never will be ,writer should make changes .

[@TheInkTank]

Your line at 0:20 sums up exactly how I feel about the whole thing. I can already tell this'll be a banger. EDIT: Watched the whole thing. You ended it just as well as you started. The fact Ben never tried to call her back is very aggravating. Great video!

[@kermitgotthesickkicks4265]

Oh hey I was waiting for you guys to comment.

[@bob74h67]

it's because, ken's mother is kai so they had to break up at one point for the future story to occur as dwayne mcduffie said it would begs the question why they waste so many episodes to set up their romance to begin with

[@TheInkTank]

@@bob74h67 Not true. Dwayne and Co never advocated for Kai, and didn't want to make efforts to maintain an alternative timeline's future during UAF. That was all OV, including their break up, which was mishandled.

[@bob74h67]

@@TheInkTank ''Not true. Dwayne and Co never advocated for Kai'' Wiki says dwayne intended their future selfs to be them just older and just called examples to the contrary, plot holes

[@au7923]

@@bob74h67 Funnily enough, I just searched that up on the wiki, found nothing, can you give me a link.

[@user-Jay178]

Poor Juile had so much disrespect in this show. Love Ben 10

[@sinchitabhattacharya9794]

Ben should be apologize to her again he tricked julie .

[@randomspider725]

I don’t know which I hate more, Ben’s character assassination or how unceremoniously his relationship with Julie ended. I know one thing for certain, though: executive meddling did nothing but hurt this franchise.

[@kidprime6863]

I think it's both

[@kidprime6863]

@ᴄᴏᴜʀᴛɴᴇʏ ᴡʜɪᴛᴍᴏʀᴇ I for one wish they did the break up a little better. A break up that results in still maintaining a healthy relationship. Fanfics do a better job at this.

[@kidprime6863]

@ᴄᴏᴜʀᴛɴᴇʏ ᴡʜɪᴛᴍᴏʀᴇ I've read one and the breakup was good. They even had an emotional farewell. Take notes Ben 10 writers

[@matthewmazzatto8003]

@ᴄᴏᴜʀᴛɴᴇʏ ᴡʜɪᴛᴍᴏʀᴇ Honestly, I was kinda hoping Ben would go full-villain at the end of Ultimate Alien. Vilgax spelled it out for him. Ben has all the power he could ever want, and he's narcissistic enough to believe that him having that level of power to enforce his will is a good thing. Everything was lining up for him to go fully off the deep end, but he still (somehow) had people around him that talk him out of it. I'm surprised Julie and Kevin stuck by him for that long. Even Gwen was getting really tired of Ben's boasting and glory seeking.

[@kidprime6863]

@ᴄᴏᴜʀᴛɴᴇʏ ᴡʜɪᴛᴍᴏʀᴇ Coincidentally, I read that Ben x Julie breakup in a RWBY/Ben 10 fanfic

[@thechandraraj6415]

Julie joining a cult actually would make some sense. Cults don't go after "dumb" people. They go after vulnerable people. They try to enlist people who are ostracized, alone and have no one else. Granted I doubt this cult worked like an actual cult but cults use manipulation tactics like abusive partners do. People falling for them doesn't make them dumb. That just makes the person enlisting them capable of saying all the right things.

[@gabriellagalli8564]

True, I do remember watching some videos/documentaries about cults and how they bring people in. So Julie joining a cult is pretty realistic since the way Ben treats her.

[@mikemorro140]

Ben and Julie fought all the time so I didn't necessarily mind the break up if it had been over an argument instead of basically a joke. Honestly romance with Ben in Omniverse kind of suck and I say that as a fan of the series. Like they decided to get him with Kai pretty much because it was supposed to be a thing in the original series despite the fact that she'd only shown up in one episode of the original show prior to Omniverse and even in Omniverse she was only in like four or five episodes. Like if they were so set on Kai I'm still not sure why she wasn't just the third to Ben and Rook.

[@airplanes_aren.t_real]

I think that it's just a problem with how romance is done in general They think "girl character + boy character = dating" which reinforces that mindset into the people watching it and the message gets passed on through the generations

[@mikemorro140]

@@airplanes_aren.t_real I mean that does happen with a lot of series the problem was different in Omniverse because Ben had multiple girls around him hell he basically had a harem. The problem was the relationship with Kai lacked any real development and only happened because that was originally going to be a thing

[@mikemorro140]

@Sunset's Channel Her name was Ester and yeah like I remember watching it and thinking that she was being set up as a new love interest and then they just re introduced Kai and it was really weird

[@_Sage967_]

my problem Kai had always been that she was a shitty kid (like everyone) but not only was she some one-off shmuck but she never really undid the stigma placed upon her in her original episode. Julie may have been the normal girl and she may have fought with Ben but virtually EVERYONE fought with Ben and i always got the sense that he both fought less with Julie and when they fought it was rarely ever particularly life-threatening which resulted in me not considering the fights much

[@purpleberry3564]

I would rather watch him get together with Rock than Kai because of how little they develop his relationship with her like what she get one episode in his childhood and teens.

[@PervertedNovaxc3]

You'd think that after Ship could become power armor for Julie, they'd have her join in on Ben's Adventures. But that just was too crazy I guess.

[@kidprime6863]

Wasted potential

[@yxrackman2397]

Especially they showed how op she was with the armor in omniverse

[@JayRedGear]

I kinda wish Julie had more interests outside of tennis. Like seriously, in just about all of her appearances, she is almost always doing something related to tennis.

[@kidprime6863]

​@@JayRedGearI agree. Like have her be also interested in martial arts. She could be in the same class as Gwen. Or like in the episode "Save the Last Dance" where she used detective skills to figure out what was wrong with Big Chill. She could also have an interest in detective movies.

[@Tokumastu1]

Can we just point out that the best thing to come out of the Ben 10 sequel series is Kevin. The dood has a functioning relationship with Gwen, gets some really good moments and is genuinely funny.

[@Nameless82284]

I still feel like it comes out of nowhere. In the original Kevin never cared much for Gwen, he almost burned her to death and threatened to cut her and he falls for her 5 years later?

[@Tokumastu1]

@@Nameless82284 5 years is more than enough time to change, especially when he goes from being a kid to late teen. He's the oldest of the group and was shown to have learned a lot during those 5 years.

[@guilhermehank4938]

"Look Gwen, you gotta treat a car like you would treat a lady!" ".......go on...?" "....no...I feel like I have done a mistake of some kind..."

[@guilhermehank4938]

@@Nameless82284 the whole point of Kevin's change is to show he has matured and evolved as a man and character It's actually a really heartwarming image that Kevin became arguably the mature head of the team

[@omen4304]

@@guilhermehank4938 tbh Kevin is the best part about the whole Ben 10 franchise tbh and the thing that has remained really consistent also rook like those 2 are my fav characters in Ben 10 for many reasons even grandpa max as well. I liked Ben in af and ua also I thought it was a good idea for him to get cocky after saving the universe I mean who wouldn’t but the problem is though like whenever we see him grow like in UA he has a lot of good serious moments and some of them in season 3 of af but in some episodes he is just a complete dumbass and as for omniverse you can tell that they just made him a ten year old again also Julie deserved better like at first she shouldn’t of been in the main team but in season 3 have her be part of the main team.

[@julia.e.carpenter]

I focused on Gwen and Kevin’s relationship throughout but Julie, she deserved better. Nuff said.

[@thenerdbeast7375]

The girl made so that hopefully fans would stop shipping Ben with his cousin like the show takes place in Alabama.

[@Nameless82284]

I think it takes place in New York. The whole point of Ben and Gwen was that they didn't get along, they always kept on fighting. But the road trip helps them develop, they started to care about one and the other even if they didn't know it. By the end of their road trip, they got along better and as they got older they no longer fought and were able to get along with each other. So I don't see why people shipped them, their whole point was to get along with each other because they're family.

[@thenerdbeast7375]

You missed the joke.

[@eduardopantoja9115]

@@Nameless82284 you don't have a good sense of humor

[@benzelwasington4059]

Well the original idea was for Than not being related so

[@ligtningdog6399]

@@Nameless82284 The issue became that Ben and Gwen's infighting made the come off as couple tsunderes. Just one extreme of making them almost hate each other to the other extreme being very, very concern about the other. The reboot did a much better job of making them feel like normal family because they were shown that they liked each other's company, even through they disagreed sometimes.

[@chancelorhiggins-gloor6999]

What really irritated me was the fact Julie was the one that convinced Ben to give up the ultimate power, the ability to wipe out evil in the universe. He cared for her enough to listen and be convinced by her, but the next time we see her they've broken up off screen. I mean come on seriously? At least give us a decent scene.

[@kidprime6863]

That's bad writing and executive meddling for you.

[@user-Jay178]

They did Juile so dirty that it sucks so much.

[@InvestmentIdea]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/b2SpqqlqjaalY6M Finally its here

[@ryanm.8720]

@no way. Wrong sauce.

[@mylem6234]

Did it really matter since she wasn’t even that important?

[@emmanuelharris6445]

@@mylem6234 Yes it does really matter & she was obviously important

[@mylem6234]

@@emmanuelharris6445 No she is not important. At some point she just disappears from the show. It is until omniverse where we learn that Ben accidentally broke up with her by playing a game. Julie is an irrelevant character that didn’t contribute much to the show and that’s why it doesn’t matter.

[@nziom]

The fact that how they broke up in omnivers was so forgettable just shows how little care they had but to be honest no one really cared about this ship kewn/given was what everyone cared about

[@bbrules8646]

I never did

[@aligatyy]

Julie is my favorite character. I know she's boring, but I really liked how she was this one normal aspect in Ben's life. Could have told some profound stories about either letting go of someone who can't fit in your life as a superhero, or how it's important to retain normalcy despite all the extraordinary and alien things that go on in your life. I imagine it would have been a Lois Lane/Mary Jane-type thing. Which I know can be over done, but definitely could be executed with good writing. Like everyone else, I'm not mad they didn't end up together. I'm mad they didn't try to use their relationship in a meaningful way. As much as it pains me to say, her character is just unimportant to Ben 10.

[@kidprime6863]

Why not put her athletic skills to good use for her character? And at the same time make her a computer whiz or something. I know Ship can turn into an armorsuit for her, but they need to let her have some skills that could be useful to Ben and his friends so she doesn't have to be a side character.

[@forcecaptainoverlordsuprem2964]

That's pretty interesting

[@forcecaptainoverlordsuprem2964]

That's pretty interesting

[@hinasaku5324]

Same I love her most ppl blame her for break up but it's Ben fault too he cheat her two times at least she is loyal with him I miss her so much 😭

[@kidprime6863]

@@hinasaku5324 Because stupid writers wanted him to be immature again instead of giving him character growth through maturity.

[@dragonicdoom3772]

I hated how they did Julie dirty. They so could've given them chemistry by having Julie seem like this cool, sporty girl, but she's also secretly a massive conspiracy nut. They could've had her be the one following Ben's escapades so that when Ben reveals his secret identity she doesn't freak out but is instead ecstatic to meet the central person of alien conspiracy. And I don't mean in a creepy way, but when Jetray saves her she could subvert the expectation of being disgusted or horrified by inspecting Jetray's wings, his tail, his horns, all while asking a million questions that Ben hasn't even thought of about his aliens. Then when his identity is revealed, it turns out Jimmy Jones was someone Julie knew on 4chan or something, tying her into the plot.

[@kidprime6863]

Yeah, that could've worked

[@Dave102693]

Basically Marinette, but not creepy at all?

[@PichuElric]

Gosh go write this right now 😭 All the wasted potential, it's making me depressed lol. I particularly love when jock characters are secretly conspiracy nuts or into the occult or something, it's a burst of fun personality on an otherwise flat character

[@darksideofevil13]

An alien conspiracy nut dating Ben of all people is pure genius.

[@kidprime6863]

​@@darksideofevil13Not a bad idea on paper, to say the least.

[@robbybevard8034]

Lets be honest, they did EVERYONE dirty eventually. Every couple seasons the show would change creative teams and shove everything fromm before under the rug. Like when they grew up and they made the world *less* interesting by removing magic and making it just alien powers. (Sorry Gwen.) Or later when Gwen and Kevin just sort of got shoved off with "we have our own lives at college now. BYE." Or how Max was treated... even title character Ben went all over the place in terms of design and personality as it went.

[@johnnygyro2295]

I could've sworn it was less "removing magic" and more "turning it similar to the Force by saying it all runs on Mana."

[@alaynaal-awaj8536]

I love Ben, but I hate what they did to his character. Just straight up assassinated his character. My favorite episodes of Ultimate Alien and Omniverse are the ones where he acts like he did in Alien Force. Also my favorite ship is Ben x Rook because I swear Rook is the only person who Ben actually tries to grow as a person for.

[@willfanofmanyii3751]

Plus Rook was the only good written character in Omniverse, so any episode focusing on him or his friendship with Ben was the best.

[@kermitgotthesickkicks4265]

@@willfanofmanyii3751 How is he the only good written character there?

[@WildWeavile]

@@willfanofmanyii3751 Maybe, but I think that the villains were easily the best.

[@pillowfullospiders3934]

Oh yeah season 3 omniverse started Ben's decent into immaturity In omniverse at the very least they didn't ruin him midway though so it was less annoying when he was annoying

[@PervertedNovaxc3]

I'm glad i'm not the only one who noticed. I liked that at the start of Alien Force they showed that Ben had grown up and shed that immaturity he had as a 10 year old. Then I noticed that at some point (I think season 2 of Alien Force or was it 3?) he just...became that 10 year old kid again. Completely immature and at times a downright jackass. Initially I thought that him being a smug jackass was a set up for him to get too complacent and thus his enemies get one over on him. Boy was I wrong.

[@snifflysara3065]

A lot of her lines as a comforting love interest, especially the "I guess I knew what I signed up for dating a super hero," feels like the show itself has her gunpoint. As if threatening to cease her existence if she does not comply with the script.

[@HelplessFangirl]

One of the dirtiest things they did to Julie in Omniverse was those pigtails

[@kermitgotthesickkicks4265]

Eh I liked them

[@forcecaptainoverlordsuprem2964]

Are you sure?

[@Quinhala11]

Nah the pigtails are great, the previous design is so generic

[@kit56371]

@@Quinhala11 nah

[@NoForksGiven]

Kevin and Gwen watching Ben's relationship fall apart episode by episode: ☕ 🗿

[@Mr.WestcottX]

For real. 😂

[@leonduncan3327]

"GET AWAY FROM ME YOU WICKED SHE-BEAST!!! This thing isn't just working anymore...!" *End call* ... *THE HELL WAS THAT?!* I couldn't hold a laugh despite how serious and unfair Ben was to Julie 🤣

[@AlexKlindt]

I agree, Julie was done BAD mostly due to studio interference. The ship in B10 is obviously Gwen x Kevin because they're the real rock that the show is built on. What I have negative to say about early omniverse is mostly nitpicks, a retcon or two I don't like and the fact that they're not around until late into the Khyber arc.

[@PhantomKnight27]

"The worst part of this moment, is that it is in character" Thank you for bringing that up! I personally don't hate how OV broke them up because I was never invested in it to begin with, but it was also in character for that to happen, at least for UA Ben and it's just something no one talks about when in a discussion about it I honestly wished that Julie would've dumped his ass hardcore in UA (More specifically 'The Perfect Girlfriend'), but I was fine with what we got since it obviously wasn't going anywhere and I was tired by that point. Not only did Julie deserve more episodes, but she deserved better episodes as well Something else I fully appreciate is that you brought up how many main plot points in their relationship happen off screen, as I feel like that's not talked about enough either. Like, why would I care about it when I never got to see it in the first place?? That just makes me more apathetic lmao This is a wonderful breakdown of the biggest relationship in Ben 10, and I can't wait to see more!! You've done a great job, mate!!

[@Gabe600]

"biggest relantionship"? Did you just forget about Gwen and Kevin?

[@PhantomKnight27]

@@Gabe600 I just kinda went with my first thoughts when commenting. Personally, I wasn't invested in any ship within the Ben 10 series except for Ben x Ester so it didn't cross my mind lol

[@GodOfSpeed2099]

First, Bruh Julie should have let Ben catch her cheating. But in the episode of Ultimate Alien known as duped. For anyone who's wondering this is episode 3 of Ben 10 Ultimate Alien. Second, but since this is a cartoon it doesn't really matter. But she still should have broke up with him. Last, Julie should have broke up with Ben in the episode pier pressure. Which I believe was in season 2. But Julie's more at fault when she called him in the middle of playing a game. Because don't all of you find it strange that Julie knew where Ben lived. But she didn't go to his house to talk to him in the episode that they broke up 🤔🤔.

[@au7923]

@@GodOfSpeed2099 Since when was julie cheating on Ben? Wasn't it Ben who was cheating on julie.

[@GodOfSpeed2099]

@@au7923 I never said she cheated on Ben I said she SHOULD'VE cheated

[@ShinobiPXO]

I honestly loved Omniverse alot. In fact I thought it was one of the best of the Ben 10 series. But the way it just offhandedly discards Julie, not just as a love interest, but as a character in general will always be one of the worst decisions ever made. Right alongside rectonning Kevin's origins 20 times.

[@pillowfullospiders3934]

Omniverse is great honestly but yeah they'd rather make a joke then do something serious

[@user-mx4is4fx3c]

I hate Omniverse. The whole show is filled with decisions like this one.

[@Gabe600]

@@pillowfullospiders3934 I don't see it as flaw, many people like that, and when they try to be serious they often succeed.

[@Leon-mv1bn]

@@Gabe600 Ben's regression is terrible though.. Seriously, horrible. It's what ruined the show full-out from the beginning because I couldn't stand him at all

[@geniusgamerr4517]

@@Leon-mv1bn i know i am out of the cartoon series, apparently some guy like omniverse Ben.

[@harriyanna]

I AM HERE FOR THE MIRACULOUS SHADE

[@bengi8907]

This video brought to light how after the Ship episode, Julie is just there. Everything leading up to the relationship was fine, but I genuinely forgot as a kid that they were a thing. I only cared about the Ship episodes with Julie because Ship was cool and I liked Julie for that. Then I never cared about Ultimate Alien because it felt like a step backwards from Alien Force. I never stayed long to watch their relationship deteriorate, but I noticed how lifeless Julie felt as a character. If the writers just put her back to being a background character, nothing would have changed to me. The end of their relationship is just sad and it just shows the writers truly stopped caring about her entirely. Your points are right. Asides from Gwen and Kevin, the only other good ship is Ship. Because he’s a good boy.

[@eliroth9978]

It's worth noting that the staff was actually very similar going from UAF to OV. Yes Dwayne McDuffie sadly passed away before production started in full, but the two Story Editors who replaced him were his best friend (Matt Wayne) and his wife (Charlotte Fullerton). On top of that, many of the writers, directors and animators from UAF also returned. Even the late Derrick J Wyatt had done freelance work on UAF before becoming the lead art director for OV.

[@kermitgotthesickkicks4265]

damn.

[@au7923]

"It's worth noting that the staff was actually very similar going from UAF to OV" Are you trying to saying that it was cartoon network who forced the staff to make omniverse in line with the classic series? Because I did hear that from somewhere.

[@au7923]

Hello? Can I get my question answered

[@eliroth9978]

@@au7923 more or less

[@au7923]

@@eliroth9978 Atleast I got a answer, thank you.

[@albireotheredguard1599]

I definitely prefer Julie to Kai! The writers really went out of their way to push those two together! Hell, I would have preferred Ben and Atea together.

[@kermitgotthesickkicks4265]

same

[@MadameTamma]

What got me was that Ben Ten as a series did such a great job of avoiding most cartoon tropes and cliches when it came to how they handled romance. They didn't do 'will they won't they's, they just let the characters get together and explore how they work as a couple without dragging it out. They'd have understandable couple fights, and also really sweet moments together. And then when they put Ben together with Kai it was ONLY tired old cartoon romantic tropes and cliches. They did that thing that I HATE where the momentum of the story stops dead so the two of them can have meaningless argument about things that don't matter and we're supposed to think that because they annoy each other so much that they're meant for each other.

[@albireotheredguard1599]

@@MadameTamma Honestly the thing that turned me and quite a few people off from Kai was her whole obsession with Benwolf. The way she described what she wanted to do with him came off way creepy and her whole attitude in general with how she treated Ben. Hell, when Nyancy Chan pretty much said the same thing about Rath I actually believed her and thought it was funny because she has the Crazy Cat Lady in training vibe going for her. It may have worked as a romance if they had left the Werewolf obsession out and the nasty attitude, but the writers Poisoned the Well and then forced pairing at the end of the series was the final nail in the coffin.

[@kidprime6863]

Atea, Elena, Ester. Hell, I wouldn't even care if it was Eunice

[@soranora4597]

I rewatched all of Ben 10 about a year ago, and yes I hated how they ended the ship. I will say this is also a ship I went from liking to hating. It was never a favorite, but it was nice to see Ben have a relationship. Note that this was only during the first 2 seasons of Alien force before everything went off the rails with Ben's character.

[@alex_zetsu]

I think the problem is they don't know how Ben should change after the original series, so thery're a bit confused and if you don't know what your main character is supposed to be like, any relationships, not just romantic ones, will also be writen without direction

[@1992holycrap]

Ben as a character has was so horribly & thoroughly abused by the powers-that-be that it just makes me feel sorry for him... I can't even get mad at his ridiculous screw-ups anymore. I just feel sadness & pity.

[@notsoprodigious6439]

I remember dropping Ben10 alien force after seeing how Ben treats Julie. Even me 11/12 years old could understand he didn't deserve her.

[@sheldonlarmond6217]

The Ben character assassination kills me every time

[@1992holycrap]

You & me both, my friend... You & me both...

[@MadameTamma]

Ben Ten, as a series, was a show that I WANTED to love so much. I think there’s a lot of cool things about it but I just couldn’t STAND the main character. I feel like I wasted time waiting for a character arc that was well set up. People have pointed out how it makes sense for the praise to go to his head and he’d develop bad coping mechanisms for his stress and the pressure he’s under, and I agree, but then the arc NEVER COMES! The writers just keep doubling down on him being an ass. I’m reminded of that Todd Chavez speech to Bojack right before he moves out. That you can’t just do bad things, feel guilty, admit you were a jerk and then keep doing bad things. You have to be better. There comes a point where it’s not just screwing up a bunch of times. It’s you CHOOSING to BE a screw up. And I REALLY wish someone gave Ben a speech like that. And for it to have stuck

[@HeartlessAlpha]

I'm pretty indifferent with Julie, but I find she's a better character than Kai imo

[@pillowfullospiders3934]

Well kai was a one off character he met when he was 10 sooo-

[@mananexus]

Agreed and yet they had her become his wife

[@Rosemont104]

Forget the romantic false lead or the satellite love interest, this type of character is just "romantic collateral damage" - the epitome of pointlessness.

[@wenjing1124]

And that's why it hurts so much

[@sirkillalot9892]

They even said strangled Strangled by the red string

[@Dave102693]

Just like Jackie from SVTFOE.

[@guilhermeteodosio40]

20:51 "You saved me" "oF cOuRsE I dId, yOu'Re mY gIrL" *that's the most obnoxious thing I've ever experienced my entire life*

[@blackfox4138]

I think you just answered why people like them so much. People love this ship cause it’s one of those rare instances where a couple just skips past the televised bullshit. And tbh, sometimes a boring ass relationship is refreshing considering how show writers don’t understand romance.

[@Zistheone2]

Omniverse is one of my favorite Ben 10 series, but one of the biggest problems it had was that it often felt like the writers went out of the way to retcon nearly everything from UAF in order to make the timeline more in line with the original series (Julie, Annodites, Osmosians, Primus, etc.). I wasn't a fan of UAF's constant changes and some of the retcons Omnniverse did were really good, but it felt like they just went overboard just to wipe out everything from that series. I mean, we didn't even have Jetray, Fastrack, or Chamalien in Omniverse since the creators didn't like them

[@kermitgotthesickkicks4265]

It's not the fact that the creators didn't like chamalien, jetray and fastrack. They just couldn't incorporate them yet. They were still working on the designs for those characters.

[@ultimax10doesgaming48]

I can't believe how bad the writers dropped the ball with them. It hurt so much as a huge Ben 10 fan.

[@dj2k460]

As a marvel fan this is a very similar issue I've had with Spider-Man and I absolutely love Spider-Man, but like Ben 10, the creators never allow the characters to grow up, Ben at 15 to 18 years old or Spider-Man out of college act like their still kids, tbh the "problems" that these characters suffer are a creation of their own doing, I wanna see my characters grow explores new roads and interest, and yes maybe Julie and Ben still break up or maybe mj ultimately leaves Peter but you don't have to make them regress to break up because that doesn't come off as cool it's embarrassing plus Ben ends up with that Kaya girl and I hated her

[@JayPattTV]

EXACTLY!! Your point about Spider-Man is why I loved his PS4 game so much. They actually let him grow up and be Spider-MAN, not Spider-Boy/Spider-Teen. It’s almost like they didn’t learn from fan reaction to the “One More Day” comic storyline

[@dj2k460]

@@JayPattTV tbh they never did, people say Spider-Man being rich makes him iron man but that's dumb, all I heat is how Spider-Man is one of the smartest heros yet he never uses that to help better his life, he made a big fuss about going to college yet is still working at the daily bugle in his last 20s early 30s, take daredevil for example, a hero who's weaker then Spider-Man ans blind, became a successful lawyer, he's not rich but he's well taken care of financially and can fight crime just as good as Spider-Man in fact he's fought Spider-Mans villans including the sinister 6 and won, this is why I love superior Spider-Man because doc ock proved Peter could have a good life and be a hero, he's in the marvel universe in New York where almost all the heros are, hell in one comic we learn Peter doesn't even have life insurance

[@nellewoodruff6337]

It's so hard having my favorite character be the protag in franchises like this or DB Super. You know how great they can be but then upper management adamantly believes "less braincells = more marketability" and repeatedly shoots the character writing in the foot. It hurts bad, man

[@Ferocidel003]

And as for Ken Tennyson being born, that is just from one possible future timeline. have you forgotten Professor Paradox's explanations of parallel timelines and cross-time travel? There could easily be a timeline wherein Ben kept his maturity and started a family with Julie.

[@10Bendog]

I like Ben and Julie for what they could have been through fan works and not for what they actually were in canon. The moment those execs assassinated Ben's character, they created basically every single problem that plagued the franchise onward and Ben's treatment of Julie was just one of the many many things fans just had to deal with. However, aside from all of that (cuz no point in talking about it since everyone already knows and agrees that it was awful) Julie just seemed to be hated by the writers in general. She got disrespected left and right by Ben and the writers as the episodes went on, then they just wrote her off in Omniverse in the most horrendous and mocking way they could, replacing her with the worst option possible and having her appear in only 2 episodes out of the 80, and then they never even bothered to reintroduce her in the reboot in any way shape or form, unlike other aspects that were introduced past the OG series like Kevin not being a villain, Michael Morningstar, several of Ben's newer aliens, Billy Billlions, crossing over with Generator Rex etc. They could've had everything from AF seasons 1 and 2 stay as it was, even if it wasn't the most engaging plot line, but then come season 3 Julie could've started coming to more adventures, especially in ones where the gang used ship like with Simple, If All Else Fails and Ghost Town or just some in which she could've been of some help like Vengeance of Vilgax, Busy Box, Con of Rath and the Final Battle. That could've given her so much screen time that she needed to develop more as a character and have the ppl that didn't already ship her and Ben at least care for their relationship. I mean, she already had her Ship mech suit that she used a few times. She could've participated in fights with that. Who doesn't like mechs and who wouldn't want to buy a toy of mech Julie? And then by Ultimate Alien, she could've become a permanent part of the team. She really doesn't overlap with any of the main 3 when it comes to their powers and also they could've kept using Ship for travel instead of introducing the Rustbucket 3. And if they really wanted to keep it, they could've kept the Julie being jealous by Jennifer Nocturne for that one episode (tho I could honestly care less for that) and then that whole story with Elena the yandere and her chips, but in this case Julie and Ben could've been closer from all the adventures they spent together and in a better place relationship-wise to where those wouldn't have played out so poorly. I also think with Julie permanently joining the team, she could've had a little arc on her own in which she starts missing her life pre-Ben when her only concerns were school and tennis and she had a lot more free time to do whatever. Ben even could've had a moment with her where he sympathies with her and offers her to quit if she so wished, just like how he did years prior when he took off the Omnitrix before the start of AF so he could live a normal life. But then she decides that she liked her old life, but she also enjoys her new one and maybe jokes about how not everyone gets the opportunity to date a world-famous superhero, much less become one themselves (cuz y'know it doesn't make sense that Gwen and Kevin didn't get literally any fans as part of Ben's team, like c'mon). Okay, I think I'm done. Sorry for the long comment, but there are very little things that can get me talking this much about shipping. P.S. Duped probably has to be my least favorite episode in the entire franchise. You do not understand the visceral hatred I have towards it. I'd much rather watch the pure concentrated cringe that was Puppeteer 2 10 times over then ever touch that episode ever again.

[@kermitgotthesickkicks4265]

This really proves how good ben and rook are together lmao. At this people think rook makes a better love interest for ben then literally every other one.

[@webtely]

I don't think julie could have been in the reboot because ben is 10 years old in the reboot he's too young to have a gf.

[@10Bendog]

@@webtely yeah, no, that’s fair. I wouldn’t expect her to be part of this kind of plot when they are 10, but she could’ve had a cameo or two or been a part of an episode as just herself as a character and not as a love interest, idk.

[@au7923]

Even though julie was bad sometimes, she was only a terrible girlfriend to Ben in perfect girlfriend and Flame keepers circle, every other time it's pretty much bens fault.

[@sinchitabhattacharya9794]

I also love them really

[@Gooberwares]

I felt so bad for Julie she DID NOT DESERVE THAT

[@avgnfansonic]

I preferred Julie and Ester as love interests rather who the show ended up pairing Ben with Kai. Julie put up with a bunch of Ben's stuff, she was quick to pace things together when Ben needed her help, she actually helped him with mutilple situations that he couldn't do alone or with gwen and kevin along side with him. As for ester, she was perfect for him because she actually enjoyed helping him out on missions and fighting bad guys, she had the same level of immaturity that ben had that created good chemistry between them, and lastly she was there for ben when he Julie left him for that European photographer and was a loyal to him. Then there is Kai, a character that i think should have stayed as a filler character back in the og series. It felt like someone saw her in the og series and said hey lets bring her back and have ben end up with her even though she never expressed any actual feelings for him and broke his heart when she told him he only liked him for his benwolf form and viewed him as him as a pet.

[@mayotango1317]

I'm sorry, but Ester never helped Ben in any episode. In fact, Ester was increasingly frustrated because Ben always preferred to ignore her at the movies or because he was bored with her as seen in her last episode.

[@WierdEnuf4Ya]

I cannot wait for the video on Kevin and Gwen. Those two honestly made Alien Force/Ultimate Alien for me. Namely Kevin. Julie really did deserve better than Ben or the show treated her. Honestly it might've been better for him to just stay single or move between multiple relationships.

[@axelnilsson5124]

The thing I hate about relationship break ups in shows like this is how big of a time waster it was like if the relationship wouldn’t last until the end of the series then why even make it in the first place?

[@kirbyfazendoummoonwalk9214]

Im Fine with Break ups as long as it develops the characters or Something, Ben changed absolutely Nothing after the break up

[@axelnilsson5124]

@@kirbyfazendoummoonwalk9214 which one? The breakup with Julie or the breakup with Ester?

[@kirbyfazendoummoonwalk9214]

@@axelnilsson5124 I was Talking about Julie but honestly Both

[@axelnilsson5124]

@@kirbyfazendoummoonwalk9214 I know you mean Julie it’s just that Ben didn’t develop after that breakup either

[@thetux459]

The healthiest relationship as far as I remember was Bevin, but that may be my rainbow tinted glasses.

[@mysticdigital5936]

No no, you're right. The writers were so bad at writing female characters/love interests that Ben had the most chemistry with his male co-leads.

[@soul-1641]

@@mysticdigital5936 this happened with a lot of anime and cartoons in the past honestly, the female characters were so underdeveloped that all the male characters all had so much more chemistry lol

[@kermitgotthesickkicks4265]

Rook and ben are fine.

[@ken7007]

@@soul-1641 Lmao this is so true it hurts

[@mysticdigital5936]

@@soul-1641 I remember seeing someone make this exact point about why Shounen Protags/Rivals are shipped together so often. People are always gonna ship whatever, but when your female characters/love interests are underdeveloped and uninteresting it makes people ship stuff with actual chemistry

[@TheSecondVersion]

For a decent example of a mature, loyal character with a loving, supportive partner who spends most of the plot outside of the action anyway, see Hawkeye and his wife

[@Solqueen86]

Julie is basically a female Yugioh Love interest. Hardly used and like a female yugioh love interest's voice actress joins a cult Also, even the smartest people join cults because all it takes is one once of doubt or you're being at your lowest moment to accept any form of emotional reassurance even if its from a group of strangers. the show could have had her forgive Ben but show inside Julie is torn up about how unsupportive Ben is and she can't let him go so she takes the BS with a smile and then it all suddenly pops Or Better explain Julie joining cus she sees Ben is just a child with Alien Tech and could have saved the world from Alien/Earth BS by now and she is using the cult as a way to vent her frustration with Ben, his job as a hero and how selfish he is. Even then the show doesn't add that

[@strelitziamystery21]

I remember Carly. Her character deserved better after the dark signers arc!

[@Solqueen86]

@@strelitziamystery21 And Blue Angel from Vrains got the same treatment

[@nyctophobia4573]

All the female characters in Yu-gi-oh were given terrible writing. Akiza and Carly were great until the Dark signer arc but then they got pushed out of the show after that. Akiza got her spotlight stolen by Crow and Carly just got forgotten. Poor Luna only got a couple moments to shine and deserved more. Alexis from GX should have gotten more wins. Mai from Duel Monsters is similar. She needed more wins and more depth. Tea from DM was basically just there and did next to nothing. Tori from Zexal was also pretty useless. I don't know about the rest of the series. I heard the latest one, Yu-gi-oh Sevens, actually did a decent job with its ladies, but it's kind of too little too late. They had countless chances to make compelling ladies and always found a way to screw it up.

[@nyctophobia4573]

@@strelitziamystery21 Don't forget Misty. She was a genuinely fascinating character but then she's just forgotten.

[@strelitziamystery21]

@@nyctophobia4573 I don't know much about Vrains but Arc-V was kinda like 5ds. Yuzu, Arc-V's main female was more involved in the plot than the actual protagonist during season 1. She had duels, relationships and a character arc! She was still good but seen much less in the first half of season 2. Then in the second half of season 2 she gets a fake out death and then for the rest of the show she became a damsel in distress. She literally had NO duels in season 3. She went from one of the most proactive female characters in the franchise to being like Tea and Tori. (Oh yeah Yuzu had a bracelet that could teleport the plot away. I'm not kidding.)

[@MrMoustache144]

Yeah Julie was in desperate need of character development and character exploration I even prefer Ben being with Kai because at least she has more of a character.

[@Mythicalcatjay]

Oh the secret identity plot point, thank god. I think out of the countless shows and movies I've seen (not counting all the spiderman stories), I can think of 2 that were good. Spy x Family, which gets it on a technicality because it doesn't really mess with their relationships, and Jem and The Holograms, because Rio is straight-up cheating on his girlfriend with her alternate identity which is a fun way to take it, esp since he likely wasn't endgame. It is such a refresher to cut to the chase, but this really is sad that it just got boring instead of frustrating.

[@theblackdagger4566]

God they did Julie so dirty, felt so bad for her.

[@Saiyagurl]

Yes! I completely agree! Julie was a fine generic girlfriend character, but she was wasted on Ben especially after his character growth got thrown out the window. I liked Julie and the fact that she would at least try to fend for herself and fight back at times against villains and that she got along with Gwen and Kevin, but she needed more time AND development as a fully fledge character. For me it was obvious that she was going to be Ben's 1st girlfriend and not his endgame even before his personality changed. I didn't feel any chemistry between them at all. However, once Ben started acting like jerk and it was solidified as his forever canon personality, I was waiting for them to break up because even I was tired of Ben at that point. He didn't even TRY to put in enough effort in the relationship and when Gwen and Kevin take Julie's side in almost every fight, you either do better or you don't. Honestly if he was going to continue to act like a narcissist then I wouldn't want him to get with anyone. Just be the lone superhero doing what he does best and not worry about anyone. Let him have his harem for all I care. Kevin and Gwen were always the better ship anyway.

[@tytheaniman497]

Julie should’ve stayed with Ben in my opinion. She made him want to be a better person and mature. Kai managed to redeem herself because she grew up and didn’t just like Ben as the Ben Wolf/ Blitzwolfer. But that doesn’t neglect the fact that Julie was perfect for him and was for sure done dirty by the writers. That “break up” scene was total B.S and made no sense what so ever. Julie deserved so much more.

[@sinchitabhattacharya9794]

Ben was also need to managed with julie .. In a relationship management is come from two of them side ben should be passed time with her sometimes ,be caring to her .

[@joelconolly5574]

Julie's a pretty good character for Ben. Someone who's smart in school and supportive of the team. If she grew to be both his support and learn the possibilities of Galvanian Mecamorph powers she'd be admirable. She would've become a great character in the long run. All while being a normal high school girl who likes tennis. I blame corporate manipulation.

[@wingdingmasquerade]

I love your ship analysis videos. You manage to put into words so many of the frustrations and the positives of so many different ships in shows. Think you could ever do a video on some of the disastrous shipping in Danny Phantom? Oooor maybe talk about Tiger & Bunny? Cause by god, I want more people to talk about this show so damn bad 😩

[@oliviamcnally7030]

I’d like to see a video on Danny Phantom ships too! Going back to it after all these years shined a light on the ships I never noticed before when I was younger. Still a fun show, the ships need to be addressed. And my gods, I agree with you on Tiger&Bunny! I could write countless essays on the characters, their dynamics and the setting alone before even approaching the ships! So glad we got more episodes!

[@wingdingmasquerade]

@@oliviamcnally7030 honestly I really want to see a full Sarcastic Summary of Tiger & Bunny. It would be quite a bit to cover S1, The Rising, and S2. Maybe S2 would have to wait, since only part one is out right now.

[@SarcasticChorus]

If I talk about Danny Phantom its gonna be like an hour long video.

[@sirkillalot9892]

@@SarcasticChorus Then I'll bring the popcorn then

[@wingdingmasquerade]

@@SarcasticChorus is that such a bad thing?

[@OmegaKyo_x2]

Kevin really is peak character

[@kermitgotthesickkicks4265]

this is facts

[@Hassanimtiaz2k21]

Fax fax fac

[@sleepyeevee9255]

“Lets make our main character the most unlikable person as possible” 🙃🙃🙃🙃

[@JayRedGear]

See, the thing that I don't like about the airport scene is the fact that Julie literally doesn't have to take a plane. She could just have Ship take her. But yeah, Ben trying to drag Julie with him was dumb and so was Gwen trying to hide the villain report. The whole thing was just forced drama.

[@KDawg92801]

They should’ve made the break up more impactful to bens life. When kai returns, Ben should’ve been a little resentful to her because of her rejection towards him in the original season. Have him not be interested in any relationships for the first few seasons of omniverse. Maybe have him date ester in season 4. Maybe they break up towards the end of season 7, realizing they just don’t click. Then maybe have him start to develop feelings toward kai, but decide to not act upon them for a while. Maybe have him decide to actually upon them around the same time in canon

[@jenp657ify]

Ben is like some sort of reverse Peter Parker when it comes to dating Julie

[@rixarts14]

This was a bit of an eye opener for me as I didn't know how bad the shift in Ben's character was. I knew there was a mandate for him to regress but I don't recall that much of AF & UA besides the big events. During which Ben was tolerable and cool. As for the relationship, didn't realise it was that bad. After watching this, I'm not as salty about the break up even if I do think it's stupid. Honestly in the end, Ben shouldn't have ended up with anyone or dated someone new. I don't remember much of Kai besides her first episode but even I knew that was a bad call. Just felt cheap.

[@pinkpunk6844]

22:36 I'm dying!😂 But, in all seriousness, Ben *really* didn't deserve Julie. But they *definitely* deserved a better breakup.😮‍💨

[@JoelFeila]

that was funny.

[@ssbleroy]

There are many Ben 10 shows I've watched in my years of life but Ben and julie is one of the first one that really felt unatural ships and Ben has a lot of ships if you watched omniverse you know what I mean

[@arienmartinez5025]

“Video game NPC’s get more screen time than Julie.” As a Genshin player it hurts a lot more than for normal players

[@SageOfTyme]

I honestly feel like bens characterization in omniverse is his best. He's not Annoying and immature like in the classic or narcissistic, but he is experienced enough in hero work and "saving the universe" that while he takes his job seriously he just likes to have fun with it. And because he does it so often its not like a big thing for him so he's not narcissistic

[@25thkumo71]

Yea the moments where he is a little egoistical it was never as insufferable as in Ua

[@flarestorm9417]

I like Omniverse Ben more than Alien Force Season 3 and Ultimate Alien Ben, but I do feel like he was too incompetent at times. In Above and Beyond we see a cold and calculating Ben be a genuine scary threat that takes down his opponents with ease without even needing to change forms. But then in Omniverse he gets a bad matchup, goes in anyway, gets one bad hit, and then gets reverted to a human? I know that's a feature of the Omnitrix to save on power, but really?

[@tolord1800]

Same tbh

[@halfthevivi]

I always thought Ben seemed so mature at the start of Alien force, and loved the quiet way he and Julie interacted. It was like a calm breath of fresh air, until they turned Ben back into an immature jerk in Omniverse.

[@mayotango1317]

Thank you.

[@halfthevivi]

@@mayotango1317 You're welcome.

[@mayotango1317]

@@halfthevivi There is a wonderful fanfic called "Ben 10 Guardians" by Shadow-DJ that shows us what the Omniverse would be like with AF Ben and Julie being his girlfriend/battle partner. And is glorious.

[@halfthevivi]

@@mayotango1317 Thank you for this information. ✊

[@ben10fanpage56]

How was he a jerk in omniverse? Apparently you didn't watch ultimate alien

[@Powherkrangunch]

As a writer and explorer of Ben 10 fanfics, I actually prefer to avoid get caught up in debates about whether the cannon pair works perfectly or not. However I was strongly invested in the idea of Ben having a girlfriend on Alien Force but Julie didn't click for me. Of course it's interesting to see how others view her character. Also I liked the analysis a lot. You've definitely given me a small window of how to better write Ben in my future crossovers. So thank you for that. I like crossover ships more since they give me more chances to use my imagination. I've been tinkering with an idea about Ben dating Dreama from Sabrina the Teenage witch. I'm definitely going to try and make this a relationship people can get more invested in. I also do want to say that I don't mind when Ben acts a little Stupid as a teen but there should be a limit to it in my opinion. I thank you for helping with my inspiration.

[@bryanpineda2096]

I managed to watch that Tennis episode before and ended up punching my brother out of anger.

[@MercenaryX84]

This relationship was really put through the wringer, here's a idea for a relationship that would be perfect for him: Albedo. His whole life is about aliens, he looks like him which feeds into his narcissistic side and at least the dysfunctional part would make sense, you can't be around someone like yourself for too long without it turning a fight. So, it works for him perfectly

[@mikemorro140]

that sounds immensely fucked up for a number of reasons

[@kermitgotthesickkicks4265]

Rook Works well too

[@benzelwasington4059]

@@kermitgotthesickkicks4265 Than you have rex or zack

[@operaanimelover369]

Ben's and Julie's relationship was doomed to fail. I think Julie could have been better for Ben if she had been more active in his missions let alone acquire her own powers to stand head-to-head with him as a fellow superhero.

[@obara7366]

Do you think you'll ever talk about any of the Teen Titan 2003 ships? Well, the ships did carry over into TTG in a more overt and winking-at-the-camera way so I guess there's no divorcing them from each other. Another amazing vid. Almost no one who does video essays in the ""serious"" animation YT community talks about ships with any level of respect or genuine-ness, so the recent direction in your channel makes my heart soar as I get to see one of the channels I'mm ost loyal to talk at length about something I love with the same vigour as me. Also, on a minor note, by the outro, the music overwhelmed your voice in volum so I couldn't really make out what you were saying. Thank you so much for all your hard work and effort!

[@SogekingFirebirdStar]

And somehow they managed to an even worse job with Ester. I actually like Omniverse a lot, but I HATE the whole thing of Ben "having" to be with Kai because it was "destiny" even more than I hate Kai herself.

[@kermitgotthesickkicks4265]

facts

[@saintaziz]

This relationship was actually my favorite out of every love interests Ben had. They had their ups and downs showing they were just like other couple and not some perfect couple They got into fights but always forgave each other which makes their break up even worse for me Their first date is still one of my favorite episodes in the show

[@ShadowMikku]

me and one of my buddies who was also a big Ben 10 fan went back watched EVERYTHING recently, and both of us got to "the tennis episode" both having missed it, and we honestly about cringed ourselves into a coma. I'm so glad I missed that episode in the past and wish I could somehow unwatch SPECIFICALLY that episode.

[@mels-bells14]

I always wanted them to give Julie more to do with Ship. She has the ultimate tech suit! Why didn't they play with that! Make it so ship doesn't like anyone but Julie, so anytime they need ship to travel to space or whatever, she HAS to come along. I mean, she also needed to be more interesting, but that could have happened if she was allowed to tag along more. She's obviously athletic and smart. There were ways they could have made her a badass that didn't seem goofy.

[@kermitgotthesickkicks4265]

exactly

[@ZekromAndYugiAndDrago123]

I think the worst part was how they ended up "breaking up" Which is to say a stupid fucking "Character says something to the tv and other Character thinks they were talking to them" trope

[@ccggenius]

Dagon is also Lovecraftian, but is COMPLETELY separate from Cthulhu. Less gribbly tentacles and more gills.

[@ahmadammarfaizulnudin953]

I think the best way to approach the Julie and Ben relationship is to do it like Jake and Rose relationship in American Dragon. Star crossed loved trope and all that. Maybe Julie was actually working for one of the villain groups to get an advantage to Ben (Yes, I know Rose did not know Jake was a dragon). I think that this is a way better route as it adds drama between them. It does make her scene meeting Ben make more sense.

[@darryljack6612]

To paraphrase the KZbinr Billiam, Ben is a bit of an asshole. To me that is more or less why the reason the relationship doesnt work, Julie was was also just more mature then him but cared too much about him not to end things sooner and be tougher. And not in the same way Gwen was more mature than Kevin, because Kevin learns from Gwen she inspires him to not just do better but be better in almost every aspect of his life. In turn Gwen learns from Kevin about how she doesnt need to perfect and is good enough how she already is, they balance each other. But with Ben and Julie however... Ben only learns what he does wrong in the moment and makes up for it in the moment, but he never really improves beyond that. And Julie never really learns anything from Ben not because she is too up tight or proper or anything like that, she is more than capable of having fun and enjoying herself just like Ben does, but she is just matured past that point of always playing the fool like Ben does. Edit: Regarding Invincible since you brought it up in the video. It is kinda crazy how a bit similar that situation is with this, or more so some peoples reaction to said situation. From the main character screwing up, his two friends (Gwen and Kevin/ William and Eve) and the love interest telling him just do X instead of Y to not screw up, him not listening, and then people blaming the love interest for his own personal faults. Its not a complete 1:1, Julie is not completely Amber and Mark is not Ben, but still the reaction and where the blame was placed in both situations is insane.

[@saucymongoose7246]

I completely agree with this comment.

[@theshellderinslowbrostail5422]

Ben is not the only ass in the relationship Julie is very much also an ass to Ben regarding his responsabilities as a hero. Its even more evident in Ultimate Alien. Like, the guy the times he has a legit good reason to not be with her because he is trying to solve an issue and she just berates him for that is awful. Im glad they broke up, but Omniverse destroyed the one thing that i liked it and it was cuz it NEEDED to be a joke of all things. Heck, at this point Elena, Eunice, that frog Princess and even Rook were more suuted to be Ben's GF or BF and would be treated better than they did to Julie

[@johannesseyfried7933]

@@theshellderinslowbrostail5422 "Room"? 🤔 Or do you mean Looma, that alien Princess?

[@theshellderinslowbrostail5422]

@@johannesseyfried7933 i meant Rook Also Looma yes, she was also an actually likeable character as well.