Ben Johns goes deep on all the latest drama in pickleball

[@HenryPickleball]

Ben’s material engineering education of front and center in this episode 👍

[@gregwilson8028]

Watching this a year later, as I've just started following and playing Pickleball in the past 6-9 months. Ben is a very sharp guy, in addition to being a great player. Fun to listen to this whole conversation.

[@ZS_7722]

Listening to Ben talk was awesome! I like how he snuck in the Kinetic Energy = 1/2m•v^2. The engineer in me got a kick out of it lol.

[@UncleBobbyB1001]

There is nothing boring about watching the Johns boys vs Matt and Riley. It's what we all look forward to - watching the best players go at it. Ben is a fantastic ambassador for the sport. Classy guy all round, on and off the court.

[@johnbrown3119]

Wow! Most informative discussion I have seen! Very well done!

[@elvnprince]

I think Ben is good for the sport because of how disciplined he is and how challenging he is for anyone else to beat. He's forcing others to elevate.

[@afterthesmash]

15:00 Ben has this totally right, about uncontrollable power taking the outcome out of the hands of the opponent. You hardly ever see anyone on the inside of a sport frame an issue like this one this accurately. Ben is tearing a page here out of professional game theory (a discipline of mathematics, instantly propelled to great political heights by the advent of the a-bomb).

[@thomasshields8720]

My favorite part about this episode is how I had pretty much nothing to say. I actually couldn't keep up

[@TheDinkPickleball]

3.0 behavior

[@ZaneNavratilPickleball]

As opposed to what?

[@josephpan858]

Great episode fellas, It was nice to hear Ben's perspective.

[@Justintime670]

@@ZaneNavratilPickleball He walked right into that one.

[@Thejoeb]

@@TheDinkPickleball at best.

[@JoolaJen]

The tournament holds the approved paddles until game day. Players collect their approval stamped paddles. Each player shows the ref their ink stamped paddle before the first serve. Change ink stamp color for subsequent tournaments. Ideally on site so testing is limited to quarter finals and above to be efficient.

[@tammys.1543]

This is excellent. Like a boxer’s wraps are signed by the ref prior to a match…

[@pickleballer1729]

Wow, Ben really does get it. (Not surprising, given his Pickleball experience and his education.) I think his discussion from about 14:15 about the responsibility for winning the game are BY FAR the most concise, and relevant points I've heard about the whole controversy. 1:14:00 About court background color, paddle color and Clothing color. The indoor place I started playing have lime green walls and doors, and it took us months to get them to buy orange balls. The place I play during the Winter now, (indoor) has blue walls and mats on the walls, and used orange balls until the last time they bought BLUE balls! (Sadists!) WE use our own orange balls. I guess that was their way of getting out of providing balls for us.

[@barney9997]

Thanks guys for a fantastic, insightful, info-packed episode! How about Ben for Pickleball Commissioner after he retires. The guy knows his stuff, which he explains in an easy-to-understand manner. It was great hearing from him on so many interesting pickleball topics. It was also interesting to hear that Noah Rubin has already given up on pickleball. Knowing how extremely talented Noah is in tennis, with exceptional speed and quickness, and only 27 years old, I fully expected him to become a top singles player very quickly, which obviously didn't happen. I'm very curious about why he didn't become a dominant (or even decent) singles player. Does anyone have a link to the video that was referenced in the podcast about his retirement? I haven't been able to find it. TIA.

[@alwaysplaythegame]

Ben is completely on point in this podcast. We need to bring the game closer to the women's doubles game. I think the easiest change is to increase the width of the NVZ (kitchen), but I love the ideas talked about by Ben (reduce ball/paddle speed). I wish this entire discussion revolved around these changes instead of having to spend so much time on challenging paddles (which shouldn't be a thing - just need to implement complete testing on site prior to matches).

[@brodiesmith2214]

This is the best Podcast ❤‍🔥. 10/10

[@TheDinkPickleball]

💕

[@AOzz]

“That 3.5 and mini me” 😂

[@realtampapickle]

Couldn’t believe he said that 😂

[@colinjohnston1247]

Always well spoken. Would’ve been cool to hear more about his new paddle (Perseus).

[@joewilliekingdom]

once he and Joola get eveyone else banned bc of some new test they come up with it ll be released dont worry

[@glennbrown9178]

Ben understands the engineering behind the issue, therefore, along with his pickleball knowledge, is an expert.

[@TheDinkPickleball]

No question 💪

[@billkennedy401]

Interesting - in the beginning of the interview, Mr. Jones laments the hesitancy of the USAPA to make a rule change to address the issues of delamination. #1 The USAPA opens up the opportunity to submit proposed rule changes, for the next calendar year (I think) in March. In each of the previous two years, there were in excess of 75 proposed rule changes for each of those years. Of note is the agreement between the USAPA, MLP and PPA to jointly work on paddle specifications. #2 The USAPA, as the governing body of USA Pickleball, is tasked with making and enforcing the Rules of the Game. As an extension, they are also tasked with sanctioning tournaments that follow and enforce those Rules. The PPA tournaments are not sanctioned because they choose to enforce Rules not approved by the USAP. So I chuckle when players talk about other players not following the Rules when the entity, they are contracted to, do not follow the Rules. Shouldn't everyone play by the same set of Rules?

[@jorowi]

I think sometimes people forget that Ben has a degree in Material Sciences. He's not just talking out of his hat. He's probably done these tests as part of his degree work.

[@TheDinkPickleball]

He’s way too smart for us 🫠

[@georgebrewster7861]

Awesome pod and that Ben guy is well edyoumakayted 🤣. I would love to see you guys get Tim Nelson on the pod. Great work and keep it up. 🤙

[@TheDinkPickleball]

Thanks for tuning in George. We will definitely reach out to Tim, would love to have him on!

[@solo2rules]

@@TheDinkPickleball I can't believe there hasn't been a push to get Tim Nelson back into high-level pickleball. He is talented and controversial and would fit into MLP so well. Its like throwing Trump into the news cycle...guarenteed clicks.

[@Wudangchi]

A thank you Ben at the end woulda been cool, but it was cool anyway, best episode yet

[@anthonyng8800]

I love how humble Ben is but super smart and shows that if you're actually good at what you do, you don't need to toot your own horn. This is exactly opposite to Lea Jansen who seems to me the poster child for Dunning Kruger

[@mtcdnp]

I’m a mechanical engineer and Ben sounds like one as well. Love it!

[@TP_pb]

I believe his degree is in materials engineering

[@russjohnson6378]

In talking about the US Open, at the 22:31 mark Ben says; "A lot of pros, at least last year, were not super high on the US Open. I mean I think we ?????????? 3rd or 4th which is not good." I've listened to this section multiple times and still cannot make out what he is saying. Anyone out there hear what he referenced about being 3rd or 4th?

[@producerborland9778]

He said “I think we’re paid down to 3rd or 4th-ish” (place). Meaning payouts aren’t deep into the finishes.

[@russjohnson6378]

@@producerborland9778 Thank you

[@afterthesmash]

9:45 This is great stuff. I would have screamed if Zane has discouraged this line of discussion. Ben misses an opportunity here to comment that we already use a power ratio test when we drop a PB from a certain height and measure the return height (would be ideal in a vacuum, but the losses are not large in air at these low velocities). It's the same thing Ben describes for paddles, but with potential energy (bounce height) used as a proxy for kinetic energy (velocity). The most famous bounce test (among the smart money) is the steel ball bounce test used by any competent blacksmith who has ever purchased a new or used anvil. What most people don't understand is that the hammer does half the work and the anvil does the other half of the work. If the anvil doesn't bounce, your biceps are either going to get twice as large or twice as sore, take your pick. A spectacular anvil can return as much as 93% of the energy in the bounce test. Good quality steel is one of the most elastic materials available (most evident at high levels of force mere humans can not generate by muscle power alone, outside of the John Henry blues tradition). Lawyer: Put your John Henry here. John flips his mallet. Granite tabletop explodes. Lawyer looks perturbed. John Henry: Oh, you meant with my _pen._ Actually, John wasn't a stupid man. He just didn't like the fine print. I actually tried to do some bounce return tests with my newest paddle and it was unsatisfactory. How you secure the handle makes a _huge_ difference, without even getting into the size of the sweet spot, or alterations due to lead tape. I don't know whether Ben's engineering education went deep into mechanical impedance matching, but it's a giant complication. For a baseball bat, there's enough linear separation between the grip position and the contact point that resonance hasn't got much time to act through to the human arm, relative to the contact time (dwell) of the projectile. I could not convince myself of this with my PB paddle. Even worse, with PB paddles there are stroke styles where the ball does not have a fixed contact position with the surface of the paddle. Mobile dwell mechanics. Argh! The ghost of Navier-Stokes has entered the building. Can I scream now? How hard could it be? Hard like water. _Water?_ Yes, water. Have you ever stirred a thin fluid a little too vigorously, and all of a sudden, a small jet erupts out of a tiny pimple on the surface and squirts up two feet? How is this even possible? And why that particular pimple? Because of a microscopic fluid-dynamics perfect storm. My wife rarely conjures up a perfect storm, but somehow in my manly vigour, I seem to conjure one up every time I set foot in the kitchen. Well, I'm a darn good cook. But you know I've been there, every time. [*] Also, Paulie Walnuts was not wrong about soggy shoelaces. Every common nozzle is a perfect storm waiting to happen. There is no known porcelain cardioid that perfectly abates this. Confucius says: Man who believes that practice makes perfect has never cleaned a men's room.

[@afterthesmash]

A few seconds later, Ben does mention restitution, but for some reason thinks this isn't exactly the same thing. Wikipedia: Coefficient of restitution = relative velocity after collision / relative velocity before collision This dates all the way back to Newton. You can also transfer energy into rotation, so it can get complicated. Interestingly, in my Wikipedia drive-by, I see that the Super Ball from my youth had coefficient of restitution of 0.92, which is insanely high. Take one of these onto a squash court, and bash it pretty hard with your squash racket. I was 23 at the time and possessed of all the moderation my recently acquired 6'5" stature implied. Result: You will instantly teleport into the trash compactor scene from Star Wars, where the laser beam is criss-crossing the room under magnetic confinement. You will _never_ do this again. Not even with court-certified safety goggles, like I had at the time. "Holy FUUUCK" as you try to dodge in three different directions simultaneously. You will probably run out of "UUUUU" before that darn ball stops zinging around. Maybe it was sheer surprise, but it was a small version of the beach landing scene from _Saving Private Ryan._ Probably my best option would have been to collapse to the floor with my arms wrapped around my head, to blubber inconsolably over my youthful stupidity. Put it on your bucket list under the heading: At absolute MOST, one time. Wear protective knee pads so you can instantly collapse to the floor with your hands clasped and raised to the Lord above: I want to live! I want to live! Part of the problem is that once those balls start spinning, they don't bounce clean. After the second bounce, you have basically _no_ idea where it's going next.

[@B4inSF]

This was great. Thanks! Ben's preference for PPA over MLP is understandable. He wins consistently in all disciplines in the PPA. For me, MLP is MUCH more fun and interesting to watch. The best talent is spread out so then the chemistry, coaching and strategy becomes important. A perfect example is how Ben and THE SLICE finally won after being together for the season... great stuff!

[@Thejoeb]

Would love to hear Bens take on the Adderall issue we all know the other pros arent talking about steroids. It sounds like he is one of the players who has been called out as benefiting from it. Such a smart guy who really has innovated the sport, but also has so many swirling rumors of character issues.

[@joewilliekingdom]

very interesting !

[@russbilderback]

I can't see how Adderall could even theoretically make a person a better pickleball player.

[@bajapickleball1052]

Why didn't you ask him about his relationship with Rob Nunnery or more importantly, Rob's ex wife???

[@mxElysian]

I could listen to Ben talk pickle all day

[@gregtx]

Anyone ever accused of using a delam paddle, had the paddle test positive ? What percent of paddle face is required to be delaminated to be considered delaminated ? (illegal) 1% ? 10% ? 50% ? 100% ? So far, all I have heard are opinions and anecdotal evidence that it has more pop, power and sound. How many broken tennis rackets, baseball bats, tabletennis paddles, racquetball paddles etc, work better when broken ?

[@ninamarie2035]

Always love listening to Ben.

[@jacobbarrus4319]

Interesting convo on developing an entering/leaving velocity test. You shouldn't need to spend money to build a system to launch a ball at the paddle horizontally, you could simply drop the ball from a specific height and measure how high the ball bounces afterwards. With a slow-mo video camera and clear height markings behind the ball, you could calculate how much energy was lost to the paddle, and to Ben's point, just use some extremely powerful paddle like the 002 as the maximum threshold.

[@woodsonsanders1112]

I think you would need to do a range of tests with balls coming at various speeds. The stiffness or elasticity of the paddle face could result in variable results depending on the ball speed. In other words, one paddle could give a higher reading than another paddle at a certain speed, and a lower reading at a different speed.

[@ryanterracino]

Has anyone discussed why they can’t submit a number of paddles to the tournament org (PPA, MLP, etc) before the tournament begins and then the player can choose from the supplied (and pre-tested) paddles? Won’t solve the issue of something breaking mid-match but at least everyone knows everything has passed testing prior. Just curious.

[@murgesgc]

I had the same thought. Pre test and pre approve paddles before the tournament. And refs write down the serial number and validate the player uses that same serial number approved paddle. I guess one way players could cheat is they purposely delaminate the paddle after it’s been approved. Or ask the manufacturer to make 2 paddles with the same serial number.

[@TheDinkPickleball]

That’s a good thought Ryan!

[@jaycohen5482]

Good job guys--Thanks!!

[@ryanrobertson7124]

I love the variety of personality in this game

[@kimleith1378]

Great pod, lots of details gone over. Curious about NPL opinions. Watched that long game with Tyson in person at The Lakes. My first tournament. So good.

[@bethechange4726]

Awesome!! Thanks Gentleman!!

[@RickLeBeau]

Until this video, I'd never seen more than a postgame interview with Ben Johns. I was not prepared to learn just how intelligent he is. He is so demur on the court; it's easy to come away thinking he's just a pickleball machine. Turns out there's a big analytical brain attached to that machine. Now I think I'm gonna have to become an even bigger fan of him and his game.

[@peterc.jordan2420]

Great information guys!

[@chadlecates2742]

Very fascinating episode to listen to

[@johnduck2640]

The velocity test should also give COR as E=1/2mv^2 so if you have the velocity, v and the mass of the ball, the would have the energy in and out, therefore the COR

[@TheDinkPickleball]

So true (we actually have no idea what you’re talking about)

[@garyjohnson1199]

Great conversations

[@jimramsey1312]

Slow Pitch Softball has similar rules for both bats and balls. I have a ball here that id .44 COR (coefficient of restitution) and .375lb. The .44 COR is the percentage of the original height a ball will bounce when dropped, and .375 lb is how much pressure it takes to compress the ball a certain distance. Bats have similar tests,, and some bats definitely get "hotter" after they are broken in. Some of these can be applied to Pickleball.

[@scottpriske6793]

I’m not an engineer but couldn’t you easily and cheaply test exit velocity (or energy) by placing a paddle horizontally and then dropping a pickleball (or a weighted pickleball) from a given height and then measure the height the ball rebounds off the paddle?

[@roninthecollector3875]

Zane: For those of you who don’t know what we’re talking about Thomas: ME. Zane continues as if he heard nothing. 😂😂😂

[@ZaneNavratilPickleball]

Actually didn’t hear that hahah!

[@Weapon_X_program]

We need a My Golf Spy for pickleball to test the equipment

[@bangerpickleball]

Ben John's is basically Neil Degrasse Tyson

[@TheDinkPickleball]

😂

[@CPap-PB]

No mention of the Perseus? 🤔

[@jimramsey1312]

(Domination). In 1920, Babe Ruth pushed the home run record from 29 to 54. His 54 home runs was more than every other American League -team-.

[@kenthomas1609]

The greatest Pickleball Podcast. Great minds like Ben and Zane need to be on the board of directors for PPA/MLP if there is one. I thought the US Open was the greatest event of the year for Pickleball and now the best players will not be there. Pickleball needs a Wimbledon/Masters/US Open/4 Majors with US Open being the Top Dog. Ben John's is a great guest and will answer everything. Ben and Zane are in Austin Texas and hopefully Ben will come back for once a month Pod.

[@alfigliolia5264]

Do what the PBA do with checking & weighing balance of inside ball before every round of all balls used.

[@barryhaworth9107]

Maybe you’ve addressed it before, but after listening to you guys, Lea and Ben, a players union/group seems obvious. Such groups have made huge impacts on tennis, MLB, football, etc., and could be a force for improving the sport for everyone.

[@Mobev1]

Unions r gay

[@pickleballhead6957]

I always thought of Ben Johns as the Bill Russell of Pickleball. I think it's going to be hard in the future for anyone to match his hardware.

[@glennbrown9178]

Look what equipment has done to golf

[@sarahlisterpickleball8065]

That’s insane! So pretty much no one is going to challenge

[@TheDinkPickleball]

Definitely adds another level to an already insane situation 😳

[@supermochithedog6896]

Ben just sees the game steps ahead of everyone!

[@TheDinkPickleball]

The stuff we would do to have even 20% of his Pickleball IQ…😭

[@karlschwartz7933]

Informative and funny.

[@ZiggityZag]

When will Ben talk about his drama related to married women though?

[@afterthesmash]

18:00 Ben is super good here, but he missed another chance to optimally frame the problem. The problem is that what's good for a spectator sport is not good for a participation sport. Participation generates spectators. Spectators generate revenues for professionals. Professional paddle technology kills participation. Couch potatoes can not handle the truth, especially your grandmother facing Nolan Ryan hand battles. On the pickleball court, his record-breaking 5,714 career strikeouts would translate into 5,714 bright purple body bags, and a great upsurge in macrame among the retirement set. How did that work out for the Atlantic fisheries? The Grand Banks used to be the greatest marine fishery in the world. Now it's just a meme on a postcard.

[@sersta9008]

Great pod

[@chrislin2774]

Now you guys have to bring Brian Ashworth in the podcast and just let him talk about OG stories.

[@TheDinkPickleball]

Brilliant idea 🙌

[@Thejoeb]

@@TheDinkPickleball you should get Tim Nelson. Thats the original bad boy of pickleball. In fact get him and Enrique across the table from each other! 😅

[@kenf2662]

Ben Johns, "What ever" . How can a player be best in the world without playing a tournament outside the US. This is a fun game to play doubles with your friends. It does not need to be hyped upped to more than what it is.

[@dougb1212]

Well there are 35 million people playing PB in the US. So I guess he's just the best out of 35 million people. That's the entire population of Canada. Not bad.

[@kenf2662]

@Doug B yes best in the USA. Maybe someone should tell the announcers up in the booth.

[@johncooper7663]

Nobody's talking about the drama I caused by winning a tournament with a frying pan. Tefal 7 inch with white ceramic.

[@DmitryEfimenko]

I'd appreciate chapters on the video

[@ac8704]

How should the break down of a paddle be handled mid match. Say a paddle passes prior to a match. During the match the paddle breaks down, and becomes out of spec. Should a player, who has no intention of cheating, be subject to a loss of record, forfeit match, and prize money?

[@seanp777]

This is my point as well, all the thermoformed paddles initially passed the tests, if was only after time the paddle delams. How do you control this? What are the next steps?

[@TheHawksFlock]

Ben really is streets ahead 😮

[@TheDinkPickleball]

Yeah…..🤯

[@bobdoe4689]

Does anyone know who this Henry guy is? I tried google but nothing came up

[@AriasProductions]

Would be nice to see a 3 person wide shot.

[@sorrynotsorrypickleball]

Zane and Ben are so competitive that they even try to prove who is smarter than the other. It’s a tie in my mind.

[@bart1476]

Lol. Neither is very smart.

[@johtodev]

at the net table tennis helps a lot

[@Benzo1994games]

So are we all just going to play with control paddles

[@jjabbas9790]

I don't think Thomas means to do this, but he phrases his questions in such a pointed way that can sometimes be misinterpreted. I think you want to present a thought more broadly and then let the guest expand on it as they see fit.

[@joewilliekingdom]

help him all you want bc we re in this together

[@thomasshields8720]

interesting. What's an example? Always trying to improve my interviews!

[@thomasshields8720]

@@joewilliekingdom haha always on my case

[@jjabbas9790]

@@thomasshields8720 when you asked Ben about if "it was fair" how he tweeted about those paddle companies. It seemed quite pointed, although I know you didn't mean it that way. You also did the same thing with Lea when discussing the Salome situation.

[@joewilliekingdom]

@@jjabbas9790 i appreciated when TS put them on the spot

[@SPSSubteacher]

Would Ben make a good coach?

[@TheDinkPickleball]

If you’re also really smart 😂 Personally we wouldn’t be able to keep up, so we probably wouldn’t make any progress

[@ninamarie2035]

At what point will the sport evolve with a Professional governing body and a separate Amateur governing body?

[@Vmary01]

The future of pickleball is two lefty players.

[@AMurderOfLobs]

I'm calling b.s. on Ben's claim that the coefficient of restitution test is just "too complicated" to explain. He claims it would be nice, but not essential, to have it included. But there really is no reason at all that such a test would ever differ from a velocity test in the context of pickleball paddles, because any other variable (i.e. pressure/temperature) contributing to "energy" besides kinetic energy (aka velocity) would always remain constant for such a test. There is simply no need for it, so it would not "be nice", it would be totally unnecessary.

[@AMurderOfLobs]

@Tom R The announcers always talk about how he majored in materials science engineering, and insinuate his skills are superior in part due to his genius brain giving him an elevated understanding of ball/paddle mechanics, or court geometry, or something. I'm out here like "uhhhh, no".

[@alwaysplaythegame]

My opinion on paddles: 1) We need quieter paddles. Too many people are complaining about noise levels in Pickleball and there is no reason not to make a paddle with reduced sound. 2) We should have paddles that are easier on joints. Pickleball is very popular with older players, and we currently disallow anything that reduces joint shock which seems counterproductive. My answer to the above would be to start with allowing EVA foam paddles, but likely move more towards something like the face material of Padel paddles.

[@russjohnson6378]

I know this comment is off topic for this podcast, but I’d like to see this discussed on a future podcast. When you are born, you have either an XX or XY chromosome body. The XY body has physical advantages over the XX body when it comes to sports. Let’s call the XX chromosome body the X body and they play in the X division. The XY chromosome body is the Y body and plays in the Y division. X bodies can play in the Y division if they want to. I don’t care how you identify, male, female, non-binary, multi-cultural, Martian, whatever. How you identify is your business. But the Y bodies cannot play in the X division. Sara Weiss is an exception. If a Y body goes through hormone therapy for some period of time (to be determined by science) and has gender affirmation surgery (testicle removal), they can play in the X division. They might still have an advantage in lung capacity, some muscle mass and height. But the hormone therapy and surgery requirement would weed out Y bodies trying to game the system. This discussion needs to happen in all sports, not just pickleball.

[@joshhasenohrl6243]

Zane - please have Thomas tested. It looks like he may be sampling some PEDs so he can have better conversation around them. His arms grew at least 1/2” dia since the Leah pod.

[@TheDinkPickleball]

😂

[@willbuchholtz4531]

Come on Zane we all know Ben Pokémon johns was more fitting that Ben jones

[@Uncle-Nacho]

The More You Know

[@bart1476]

What a wanker. His new paddle is thermoformed. Any powerful player can hit the ball as hard as they want with any paddle.

[@KO1967]

LOL ... Ben commenting on his longest match with the softest ball ever. Hmmm ... could that be the ball he touted in commercials as the ball the pros prefer ... the Franklin X-40 ... aka the marshmallow.

[@downwinder3]

excellent podcast and I haven't finished the whole thing but I feel like they missed the two biggest questions on the testing. Great if we change the test from deflection to velocity but that's not really the biggest problem right now. The problems that they need to talk about are testing on site and how to deal with the changing paddle The upgrading rather than degrading of a used paddle because testing new paddles is not enough if paddles improve with use and they mentioned that but they didn't talk about the solution to that That's the biggest problem.

[@peteherrera1502]

Maybe you should check out Larry Bird for the best basketball player of all time who dominated Jordan every time they played. Larry Bird was a dynasty player who did more for th game of basketball in the short 13 years he play and he dominated Jordan when he play against him. Nobody has made more of an impact like Larry bird did in the 13 years he played and Larry Bird is the GOAT. Not MJ. And the following is true about Larry Bird. Larry birds timeframe played 13 seasons in the NBA and what is impressive Larry missed nearly an entire season for bone spurs in his heels and played just 105 games in his last two campaigns due to his bad back. Those last two NBA seasons, 1990-91 and 91-92, were painful to watch, as Bird had to lie on the floor at times to ease the tension on his aching back. Years later, doctors explained the lengths they had to go to just to get Larry Legend on the court, and after hearing that, you won’t believe just how painful the whole situation was for him. Larry Bird infamously hurt his back doing something perfectly on-brand for the humble Celtics superstar, building a driveway for his mother by himself in 1985. And while the back injury affected him for the last seven seasons of his career, it truly became a problem starting in 1988. By the 1990s, Bird “had lost the structural stability of his spine,” according to his orthopedic therapist, Dan Dyrek. “It would slip into abnormal positions to try and lock itself to get an artificial stability.” The pain for the Celtics star was intense. Dyrek compares his spinal issues to “getting your finger stuck in a door, and somebody’s still pushing on the door.” Despite the pain, Bird did whatever he could to play, even while wondering whether he was doing long-term damage that would affect his quality of life in retirement. But he did it because, as he learned from his father years before, “If you get paid to go to work, you gotta go to work.” So, during the last two years of Bird’s career, Dyrek and his counterparts would go to extreme measures to get Bird on the court. “What we had to do was unlock his spine, realign it, [and] do techniques that would hold that for four hours, six hours, that type of thing, and then he’d go play basketball,” Dyrek explained. And while Larry Bird now admits he “probably should have retired in ’88, ’89,” he says the competition and hopes of one more NBA Finals showdown with Magic Johnson kept him going. www.sportscasting.com/larry-bird-doctors-unlock-spine-before-games-end-career/ and Larry Bird injured his shooting hand in a bar fight during the 1985 Eastern Conference Finals www.sportscasting.com/larry-bird-involvement-bar-fight-cost-celtics-1985-nba-finals/ which shows how much heart, love and dedication Larry had for the game. And There will never ever be a player like Larry Bird again. What an insult to Larry bird, His legacy, His accomplishments and the pain he endured and still did all that he did. How a person handles Adversity and other intangibles are part of what makes greatness. And watch these two video's kzbin.info/www/bejne/hJbKhXR-frx5bZI kzbin.info/www/bejne/oYmxfaeOirmFj7s kzbin.info/www/bejne/f5bThnx8aJ16i5o kzbin.info/www/bejne/oYmxfaeOirmFj7s kzbin.info/www/bejne/eqfOkoSIbbh7otU www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nba/4-crazy-stories-that-prove-larry-bird-is-the-toughest-player-in-nba-history/vi-AA1msz33 MJ or Lebron had no adversity during the years they played which are intangibles that made Larry bird even greater.

[@tennisace40]

There is drama in pickleball?

[@mcrider333]

Seems like the new billionaire bosses have sent the word downline that drama sells. No coincidence that since the big takeovers all of the sudden pickleball drama has exploded. lol. Paddles, Balls, bad calls, controversy on steroids, good guys, bad guys, WWE has come to pickleball.

[@angiemcbride7200]

Not just a pretty face. 🧠

[@gregtx]

Anyone ever played basketball, some games, can't miss a shot, other days, can't throw it in the ocean ? Anyone ever play pickleball and some games, can't miss a shot and other games, can't hit anything but the net or out of bounds ? I saw the match of Salome Devidze against Lea Jansen and then against Catherine Parenteau. Against Jansen, Devidze couldn't miss a shot........ against Parenteau, she couldn't make a shot. So, I am to believe Devidze's paddle was delaminated because she beat Jansen and lost to Parenteau ? Sounds and tastes like sour grapes.......

[@26realmc]

I still think six zero, Legacy, Vatic should sue his loudmouthed ass. He’s not the arbiter of what’s legal. Leave that to the governing bodies and just shut up and play.

[@pickleballinwithdave]

Improvement for the game: put better court barriers so players are not getting on their hands and knees trying to find the ball in the stands, or chasing balls down.

[@dougpotter171]

The guy in the cap is rude by doing social media while being interviewed.

[@joewilliekingdom]

he s a host but its nice when he is quiet

[@thomasshields8720]

I'm looking at the list of topics and making sure we stay on track

[@jessegamez3764]

Ben needs to stop talking about baseball going back to wooden bats.. MLB always played wooden bats 😂😂😂

[@joewilliekingdom]

Noah Rubin is better than Sam Queerey

[@stevejordan-fd1om]

Speaking of rules. I get the kitchen line foot fault for reach-in volley, it’s an advantage. But the foot fault for retreating from kitchen to hit an overhead, is not an advantage. Actually the more you are in the kitchen prior to chasing an overhead the farther you need to travel. That foot fault needs to go away. Ironically, it’s the one the refs loved it call the most..

[@ao2299]

How would you even make that distinction in a fair way?

[@stevejordan-fd1om]

Easy, if someone is retreating it’s not a fault, if they are coming in or reaching in, it’s a fault

[@gregtx]

@@stevejordan-fd1om Correct, the main concept is momentum. Your "momentum" causes a kitchen violation, not stepping in to chase a ball.

[@russjohnson6378]

I understand your reasoning and logic. It makes a lot of sense. However (there’s always a however), we need to ask, Why does a player take that small step forward before jumping backwards? In certain circumstances, it’s the best move to get to the ball. Otherwise, you wouldn’t do it. And we all do it. And we all have our personal space we like to stand from the kitchen line based on what we are comfortable with. Some are right on the line, literally 2 centimeters from the line. Some are literally 6 inches away. Maybe you feel being right on top of the line gives you just a teeny tiny advantage over someone who stands 6 inches away. However, the closer you are to the line, the more likely you are to commit this fault. And that’s the purpose of this fault. If you want to play that close to the line, then you risk being called for this fault more than other players. But there is the risk/reward calculation. How often does this fault get called? In most 3-games matches, it never gets called (I’m talking pros here). So, if you only get called for this once every 5 matches, but you are winning all your matches because you stand closer to the line than your opponents, the risk/reward calculation says stay right on top of the line. Regarding your retreating rule (good idea by the way), assume I step into the kitchen to make a groundstroke. I am now retreating out of the kitchen. But before I reset both feet, the ball is hit at me and I volley it. Since I am retreating, should that be a fault? Or as I am retreating, the ball is lobbed over me. I jump up off my one foot still on the ground and volley it. Is that a fault? All-in-all, I feel it is a good fault to call. We all want to play as close to the net as we can, meaning we want to play as close to the kitchen line as we can. If you get called on this fault a lot, maybe you need to back away from the kitchen a little. Meaning backing away from the net a little. And keeping you a certain distance from the net is the purpose of the kitchen.

[@800over]

​@Chowdah so how far do j have to retreat? 2 feet? 5 feet? 6 inches? Can you imagine the arguments? Don't volley a ball from inside the NVZ. The rule works perfectly and simply as is.

[@ericmandell7895]

another ex of tech in sports possibly going too far…pga tour rolling back the golf ball

[@ac2679]

Falling asleep with the Elon Musk physics explanation.

[@rexgoodheart3471]

Go play tennis.

[@TheDinkPickleball]

👍

[@dylankrank]

Zane's language ruins the interview. Very unprofessional.

[@ZaneNavratilPickleball]

I don’t give a shit what you think!

[@bart1476]

Zane better stick to podcasts because he never wins much.

[@ProtoAdamification]

Let's goooooooo

[@TheDinkPickleball]

🙌

[@jeanninewebster7652]

😵‍💫😵‍💫😵‍💫😵‍💫

[@TheDinkPickleball]

Us too