Bending Oak Beam Live Attempt #3 ⚠️ Glue Lam Danger ⚠️

[@carlroge]

Thanks all for joining :) Do not worry - the usual style of video is going nowhere! This live format was a one-off to demonstrate a big glue up in real time.

[@alanorion1]

Thanks excellent as always any video is welcome

[@mikeh4871]

It was really enjoyable to watch! Thanks for the effort. It's really cool to see the personal side of ya!

[@joanneshellings5457]

Great job !! 👍

[@richardsteele6469]

Have you thought about cutting notches on opposite sides to help reduce tension and reduce splitting?

[@user-dy9gz8qp6f]

You could first moisten the lamellas with steam, bend them to the desired radius, and then glue them together with much less stress. Challenge is valid)

[@rjacobsen9994]

Carl a few things that will help. Thinner strips also start from one end. And have clamps in between every block. I built curved stairs and spiral staircases for a living for 30 years. Another hint is you only need glue on one's side and not to plain the oak strip,the fibers hold it together better

[@carlsmith2826]

Agreed do thinner strips and glue them in sections, and then glue the section together it will go a lot easier and with no splints.

[@D-B-Cooper]

Retired shipwright here. You are at the limit of what that size wood will bend. You can use a metal strip on inside and out to help to not get any hard spots and minimize breaking. I have steamed them, clamped them, then let them dry before glue up. You can never have too many clamps. Interesting trick is that it is possible to plane the inside curve on a thickness planer. You can steam seasoned oak but it takes longer.

[@scottpecora371]

Carl, one big suggestion, choose an exterior wood glue with a much longer set time for several reasons. First, a slow setting glue will allow you to achieve numerous goals. First, you're no longer in a race against the clock. Second, a slow setting glue will allow the planks to move about as you continue to apply clamps. Clamping will not become more difficult because you're not fighting glue that's already setting or set up. Plus, if the glue has set, then you force movement the glue will not reset as well. A slow curing glue will allow you plenty of time to perfect your clamping, allowing the planks to move over one another as the clamping is changing the over all shape. Then let it really set up for a couple of days. Then, with help, run your new beam through a surface planer. It will come out looking fantastic. Also, make the planks 15% wider than you need, allowing plenty of excess material to plane off. Now you can surface plane to the exact dimensions you want with no pockets or low spots. It will look fabulous. Best of luck

[@stephenvale2624]

Aside from the other comments about long setup (polyurethane) glues, if you are going to bend boards of this thickness, you need to do it with hot boards that have been steamed until they are much more pliable.

[@charlesslack8090]

Carl you are going about this the correct way to ensure the best outcome for beam strength. We used to make circular staircases and glued the crrcular/spiral stringers and handrails this way, 14 feet long in a vertical spiral. You need more clamps. You should modify your clamps! Remove the piviting red handles and weld a nutin its place. You can now use a impacted gun with a socket to tighten the clamps! It will save you a ton of physical activity and exhaustion. It will also be quicker. You should be using an exterior water proof glue with a longer open time. Decades ago we would use a brown resin glue that we would mix with water, spread with a pant roller, and would give us a 30 minute open time. Once these dry they will be really stable! Wonderfull job! Cant wait to see the finished project.

[@robertmitchell8423]

Note to self.... next time I am going to do a massive glue up using something with an open time of just ten minutes... I will probably create less stress for myself by also live streaming it to a few thousand people and at the same time answer their questions and talk them through it. Seems simple enough! Loving your work!

[@ExpectMiracles55]

LOL!! First Carl's video that made me break out into sweats!

[@edlemay9681]

Love the content. One observation. Why not make the glue up over several days? Glue up the first two pieces in the morning. Add the third piece in the afternoon. Repeat until you have added all of your layers. That way you are only fighting the tension of one board at a time.

[@peterwagner3170]

That is how we did it with our boat all the time

[@y0uRF4t3]

Also, why not buy a more relaxed glue? There are plenty of very good slow drying wood glues.

[@elFulberto]

@@y0uRF4t3 For the sake of suspense, of course!

[@tbarmo]

That would be the longest "watch glue dry" live stream on KZbin😀

[@debandmike3380]

that's what I suggested on attempt number two which video seems to have disappeared.

[@Bella_Kilori]

Ship builders used Live Oak, which grows naturally with many curves and bends.

[@nichosoulsea1]

You can only do this with green (20%+ moisture) live oak. It’s twice as hard as any other species of oak

[@ryanbatty7505]

You’re by far the most likeable creator I regularly watch on here mate! I’m a fellow chippy, absolutely love your pride in the work. Great to see the job done so well by such a top bloke! Keep it up Carl

[@sarcasticinfj5310]

Well, I quit smoking 23 years ago and never before wanted a sigarette as badly as I did watching this video. My nerves! Well done! ❤ from South Africa 🇿🇦

[@NigelMarston]

Of course there are different ways to attack this project but you've chosen one and made it work, and it was a great pleasure to watch. Thank you for showing the process to us all.

[@jeffforbes3772]

I hear you man. Looking at the other comments I agree that a slower setting glue would have been a good choice. And, I like the idea of a phased glue up with two or three boards at a time. Regardless, the most basic and easy glue ups re stressful even with the best prep and planning.

[@davidallen803]

Really great video, sorry I couldn't be on for the live stream. About being obsessive, don't worry about the small stuff, show your mistakes, it makes the video more relatable. I think I can say we all love the videos and glad to see your progress.

[@terryowen6381]

Loved your meticulous preparations and the risk analysis. Perhaps using slightly thinner strips and longer setting glue would help. Has reminded me of my youth helping my father to steam oak ribs and put them into our fishing boat - over sixty years ago. Great video.

[@BrettUssher]

@carlrogers I just started watching this video. You stated three ways to build this arch. I have a fourth. Do exactly what you are doing, but start with just two boards. After the glue dries, glue up and add one more board. This will make clamping much easier and faster. Also, I would soak the boards in water before adding them to the arch. This will reduce cracking and, again, make clamping much easier.

[@DavidWilliams-zg9bd]

Excellent work as always Carl. Please don't feel pressured into making Live videos. The charm of your channel is watching quality craftsmanship - the calming wind chimes are also a plus 😉. This video must have been quite stressful to make, it was certainly stressful to watch.

[@user-uq6gl5nw7b]

Hi Carl, a couple of suggestions: - apply the glue in both directions, either using the roller backwards or changing to using your left hand. You are wasting half the time walking back to the same end to start. - wrap the loose blocks you use on top in plastic so they won't stick to the laminate. I love the way you work out your own methods for doing things. I also like to do that and although it's not always the best way, at times I have surprised experienced builders with my ideas. I learn a lot from watching you though my projects are much more modest now (I'm 78). Greetings from Australia - I was fast asleep during your live stream but watched it this morning

[@arty1799]

That live episode was a nice treat, even watching 2 hours after the event. Your fixture and process look solid. I wonder if a large ratcheting cargo tie-down strap could make any of that easier. Thank you for having us along for the ride.

[@stevepacitti9206]

Hi Carl, On smaller laminating projects it would be ideal to steam and clamp to the shape that you want, then allow to dry. Almost pre-forming the timber to the desired shape. You can overcome the Castellations by using wider boards and when the piece is set, run the item through a planer thicknesser to the desired width. Generally speaking thinner straps are easier to conform to a radius shape. In my experience 5-6mm straps are easier to form, but the downside is more strips mean longer gluing time is required. Only glue one side of each board when sandwiching the pieces together. The wood fibres will lock in the PVA creating a strong bond. I would have used blocks the width of the timber to also spread the load when clamping.

[@carolynewilliams1194]

Really enjoyed that. Seeing the process in real time brings it home how hard you work. Knew you worked hard, but we actually got to see your struggle too. Being a sufferer of RA myself, feel the pain of what you’re doing. Rest up between. Won’t say pace yourself, there’s no such thing with RA. ❤❤

[@johnwardale9740]

Carl you could always use west epoxy that would give you greater cure time but super strong. After all they laminate ribs up in boats using this method. Great content love the programme 👍

[@user-jc9el2jt9k]

This was absolutely fascinating, Carl. Thanks so much for sharing it. I very much appreciated your explanation upfront but remained pretty nervous throughout. Well done! Thanks again.

[@Vikingwerk]

I might suggest trying a large ratchet strap, like they use on large cargo on large trucks. It would allow you to pull tension around the entire arch at once, while staying behind the danger zone.

[@ExpectMiracles55]

Brilliant! I hope Carl got a chance to see your comment. IMO best idea so far.

[@pmur079]

Impressive and the explanations were helpful. The mic works fantastic.

[@alanorion1]

Hi Carl I watched after the live stream finished. An excellent video as all ways. Sorry to hear about your arthritis my wife suffered for years until it was discovered she had Haemochromotosis ie. Too much iron in her blood after treatment giving A pint of blood a month a massive improvement. Just a thought!! Best wishes Alan

[@Yackhammer75]

I've seen the comment to glue in both direction thus saving valuable time. Another huge time saver. Place plastic on the back side of your jig table. Lay all the boards out flat. Glue them all at once. Then all of them at the jig side of table on edge against the blocks. Start clamping from there. You will have the most amount of time to clamp and adjust as needed this way. Also most wood glues use a bit of force to help set them so your 10 minutes might not start as soon as you apply it but rather once you start putting the boards together. No matter how you choose to go about the rest of them excellent work my friend.

[@BFDT-4]

Wow, this seems so easy, but there is so much to get right the first time! Respect!

[@jcr_jcr]

You are a genius. That is sure to work. Well done.

[@tourloueb]

Très très beau travail cela est très très intéressant de suivre tes projets.

[@cathybrewer8958]

Love your videos they are always interesting to watch. You do impeccable work.

[@nielscremer]

Thanks for the improved audio and kudos for another successful glue-up, albeit a stressful one. I build guitars in my spare time and have had a few annoying fails in that department … 😉 There are always other ways to go about projects and processes, but you‘ll improve on your chosen process and become quicker and develop a routine - not to worry! 👍🏼

[@jacquestubeetvous4981]

Man, that clamp up was stressful to watch! Great work!

[@tglackin2411]

Missed the live chat. Enjoyed the format. Perfection isn't real. Stress is real. Preparation is real. Logical thinking is real. Getting the glue up done required all of these elements. Very impressed with your thought process, preparation and execution. This would not have worked for the staircase, which I loved, or the roof, which took a long time. But this does work for a lot of stuff. Thanks!

[@jeffkeeley1507]

I wish I hadn't missed this. It just came up in my feed this afternoon. Usually I see your channel pop up right away. So I subscribed in the hope I will get to see your vids right away.

[@thepubliceye]

Ship builders used Live Oak, which grows naturally with many curves and bends

[@CreativeCarpentry]

I always find clamps to be least cooperative when I’m in a hurry against glue setting up!

[@cttravels5244]

Thanks for the content Carl. Always inspiring. Always lots of heart. Respect.

[@paulobrien685]

The drama of the glue up! The kids and I enjoyed this as breakfast viewing in NZ - all the best.

[@craigsimons2217]

Great video (as always) - the fact you filmed this in real time demonstrates just how strenuous and stressful this can be. Looking forward to the next installment in the Shepherd’s hut series!

[@johnpeach2977]

I’m probably not the first to suggest that two part epoxy has several advantages over other adhesives for curved form laminations such as yours. With a slow hardener the working time is casual compared to the stress of your ten minute wood glue, so way more time to get all your clamps on. There’s no initial tack so things don’t stick together before you want them to. If properly thickened epoxy is gap filling so provides a strong bond even where laminations don’t contact perfectly, and the bond is absolutely waterproof. Once cured there’s no creep, so less spring back. About the only advantage standard wood glue has for your application is not needing to be mixed, but the reduction in stress using epoxy is worth the few extra minutes that requires. Admire your boldness tackling the projects you do - inspiring work!

[@alim2708]

Thank you so much for the sound upgrade. And thanks again for turning on the captions!

[@thomas-gk9jp]

Doing this work alone is alone a challenge, good work Carl !!

[@troyboy4345]

Very entertaining matey, thank you.

[@ButterflyMatt]

I was taught to steam seasoned oak after soaking it to rehydrate. Maybe 7mm strips, and they had to soak for about two days prior to steaming. I think there’s a formula for thickness to soak time, much like soaking dried willow for weaving. After that, the steaming only takes a few minutes, because it’s just a matter of heating through. It’s an involved process for 7mm strips and to do your beam from one timber might require several days of soaking (and a suitable trough) followed by extended steaming. I think your glue-lam is going to be righteous. I’ve also experimented with that. Much smaller project, a garden gate arch, and I didn’t take nearly the care you did. After some planing, though, the result was quite pretty and timber-like, even with some gaps. Keep it up. You’re doing really well.

[@rivergate]

Excellent work, Mister. You did remarkably well to stay outwardly calm. With regard to other options, I've seen people use ratchet straps to start the bend and then follow up with the clamps as you’ve done. I've also seen others use a thin metal plate on the outside and a winch, and then follow up with the clamps again. It's probably far too late in the process now. With regard to help, although again too late now, you’ve undoubtedly got eager followers across the planet and a good few in France, too. And likely a lot with good hands on woodworking experience. Just a thought. Hope your flaring up episode subsides. Thank you for your excellent content.

[@kjsgadh]

Not sure if you're still working on the rest of the glue laminated curved beams, but I wanted to bring up a couple of pointers to perhaps ease some of the difficulties I saw on the video, specifically regarding bending wood based on templates, you could double or triple up the plywood, and cut the curve that's needed into one edge of the plywood form. For clamps you can cut 2" holes in the plywood along the curved profile, and clamps in the holes. That will make it much easier to turn the clamp screws and make the template form smaller and easier to get around. Clamp piece of flat metal or wood stock to avoid castellation first, and then use a ratched strap to go around the entire form and lamination assembly to curve all the wood simultaneously without straining your hands with the pump style clamps. Then add the final clamps in the holes and tighten the all clamps/ratchet strap in a round robin fashion to keep the strain on the wood even, to prevent cracking and getting all the forced even.

[@Innova_1979]

Great job sir!

[@pt6423]

Well done Carl. I too am under the dreaded 90 day Schengen Agreement. I'm also working towards a permit. Good luck with your adventures. Greetings from Auvergne

[@sovereigns1grace]

Wow! You did it alone. Impressive process. I bet your hands needed a good break after that (not to mention back & hips). I've never seen this process before and I'm awed.

[@susanludwig8924]

I love your projects!

[@recipio6561]

Been there and done that. I feel your pain. If I might suggest a few things. 1 Use a one hour glue like polyurethane to take the pressure off. Yes, you need a brush but you have time ! 2 Invest in a set of Record/ Irwin G clamps. The tread is finer and allows much more torque. Modify the clamping caul to suit. 3. Put a hardboard strip or similar under the clamp heads to avoid marking the wood.It's all about having the right tools 😀

[@vanrivera2]

I really enjoy your live video, makes it so much more interesting to watch. Love your craft.

[@williampearson9772]

Looks great, i recommend using blocks of waxed oak or steel on the outside edge clamp arms, more even pressure, less chance of cracking and may reduce the shifting causing your castellationing. Well done

[@johnanderson5256]

Well done fella. I know I am a bit late but thanks for the content. We are heading into winter so not as many projects for me, so good to to watch some else’s projects.

[@Dave_1966]

The split should be able to be repaired with a clamp and more glue, I have seen laminations done with epoxy successfully on one of the boat building/renovating channels it might be worth looking into, I don’t see any reason why dry oak wouldn’t steam so long as it’s left in the steam box long enough 😊 good job 👍

[@RIDICULOUSLOGIN]

Carl. Love the content. I have successfully bent green-ish white oak into an 8' radius using steam Honestly, it's more about getting a good amount of heat into the wood than moisture. A tension strap on the outside of the curve helps a lot to prevent splitting on the tension side of the bend.

[@garymilsom4873]

Your always a perfectionist and always turn out good workmanship.great vidioes and a pleasure to watch

[@damicocarver]

Sounds good!

[@groundspeed3954]

Watching your glue-up reminded me of what my father used to say: "He's busier than a one-armed paper-hanger!"

[@danmartin5015]

...with an itch, during a wallpaper sale!

[@michaelodonoghue9385]

Well done young man, you set an example of “ just do it” which takes a lot of courage when the outcome has yet to be determined. Stay well!

[@carolynknight1520]

Super fantastic glue spreader gadget. Thoughtful elegant process before hand preparing materials, then the unfolding of, is inspiring in real time. Great chapter in your hut build.

[@user-kv1ns5te2r]

I agree with an earlier comment that only one side of the board needs to be glued. Also, there are a number of glues with a longer open time than 10 minutes. Using boards wider than you need might help if you could run them through a planer after the glue is dry; I suppose the curve might make it tricky but it would seem possible and might solve the "costellation" problem.

[@joeanon1415]

Excellent example of making it work regardless of the circumstance.

[@audiotechlabs4650]

Like others have committed, thinner and less strips would have been a better choice. You make things work so to see how this turns out will be wonderful! This is not a wagon like Dave Engles restores, the shear mass of the undercarriage is so over specd and the bows are twice as thick as needed, but it will be a bulletproof structure! Cast iron wheels! Can’t wait to see what happens next. Most if not all, of us really enjoy your channel and doing live is good but your other format is great to! Thanxz

[@Sigurd924]

The glue is drying up slower under little air due tight fit between the planks so you win some time.

[@glenlongstreet7]

I agree with the suggestion to go with West Systems. Gougeon Brothers make a wide range of products with different cure times. I would look for something that sets up in a couple of hours (105 and 206), mixed with Aerosil/Cabosil for greater strength. This takes the pressure off and lets you work a lot slower. I built a lot of boats and molds. Jamestown Distributors also sells epoxy called Total Boat and it is very popular with furniture builders.

[@noidnomis]

Great stuff..!! Would really like to see you post the vids of the first two attempts, that would be great to see..! As well as you making the jig, that would be grand! I missed the live event, so not sure if these were mentioned in the live comments or not. The blocks for your jig, if you made them in an L shape where the oak boards would slide into under it, it would help eliminate the castellation as there would be no space for the oak boards to slip up and down on the jig. That is how we used to do curves on window frames when I was in that manufacturing job. Just a thought. Also with your clamps, if you took off the handles and used an impact driver with the proper style driver to fit on the threaded rod, you'd be able to clamp down much faster. Another would be have a sacrificial outside board a 1/4inch or so of ply, would help eliminate any damages to the oak surface. Awesome video, cannot wait for the next..!! 😎😎

[@nichosoulsea1]

A few quick suggestions, use flat sawn lumber only with grain crown up and cup down. Mixing quarter sawn with flat sawn,,,, they have different flex’s. It isn’t actually necessary to use kiln dried lumber when that lumber is being used in framing a home or boat, in fact green lumber is better and it’s also less expensive. Get a chainsaw mill, cut your own large beams and timber wherever you are. I’ve done both the laminating and do my own milling. You did good👍

[@karlnelson6593]

Have done smaller versions with good success. Very much enjoyed your approach. Was warned many years ago “You can’t have enough clamps.” True dat.

[@hastingshastings72]

Thank you for posting Carl, how do we get a heads up on the next live?

[@robertphillips93]

Many good tips here -- but there's one more! PVAs can be thinned with water, but that doesn't change the open time (it's a polymer thing, not evaporation-regulated.) Glycerin, on the other hand, can be used sparingly in the suspension to extend open time.

[@juhaanttinen9031]

Amazing how talent You are in all You are doing! Greetings from Finland.

[@murraycod1965]

Good vid Carl! Most enjoyable! Use a wood block as you did in the centre to distribute the pressure on all your clamps… Cheers mate👍🍺

[@kevinkelly1523]

I can hear you. Love your work and your videos.

[@JeanMarc2508]

I always enjoy your videos. Thank you.

[@dionetaylor931]

What a wonderful experience for us thank you Carl.

[@Hopalong..75]

I was pulling for you the whole way thru, now I am exhausted. I really like the idea of welding nuts to the clamps and using an empact. Electric clamps.

[@clausfrennessen2362]

Sorry dude!! Bout build standard!! But I love your hard work and your antitrust that you put in to it! You fix any things. Love and support fan Sweden 🇸🇪.

[@chriswhelan861]

30 years experience as an adhesive engineer here are a few pointers, especially for polyurethane glue. 1) Fresh plane 2) Temperature 15C min 3) Only need to coat one side*4) Most important, finish clamping within open time of glue! 5) For curved beams double the recommended clamp time (48 hours is too much time depending on relative humidity and wood moisture content 6) Use PAM spray instead of water for glue release! * If using water based glue thicker coating equals more open time. Good luck!

[@scottcates]

I very much enjoyed your video and I gave it a "Thumbs Up."

[@nicbutterworth729]

Can I ask why you don't do just 3 strips, let them dry and then add the rest in 2 lots of 2. Also you probably only need to glue one side.

[@roberthancock813]

Great content even though not watching live. Titebond III gives a little longer work time but what you're using seems to the job too-only 5 more to go. locking forward to seeing next stage.

[@ldm7770]

So exciting!! 😅 👏👏👏 To avoid castelations you could screw a few flat and relatively narrow steel plates over about 4 of the blocks, which would be long enough to go above the entire thickness of the beam and so all the individual planks would be forced to stay aligned between those plates and the table... just a thought 😊

[@duncan.g.burton]

Sound is perfect. A great improvement 👍

[@guillermocarrillo3959]

If it matters, I’m in California, and I hear you fine.

[@benhoward3531]

Brilliant effort, hope it turns out good enough to use..

[@pambrewer9082]

Thanks for saving Rafi. You did a good job.

[@avivat3010]

Great video! Thank you for showing your work. Good luck with your health Carl. I hope you find your way to remission. Methotrexate put me in full remission after 2 years of the worst case. A true miracle. I agree it is a pain in the ass illness. You have an amazing level of fortitude. It will stand you in good stead. (Easy to say, I know.) Best wishes, Angela

[@pjv767b5]

Look for and adhesive with a longer open time. There’s plenty of marine adhesives out there which will fit the bill. With the 10 minute stuff you can glue up one lamination at a time.

[@user-kl4cq3mj5k]

Струбцин мало не бывает!👍

[@Horhoun]

This reminds me of a visit to the Steinway Piano factory in New York that I made some years ago. The rims of grand piano cases are made from long, flat strips of kiln-dried maple that are laminated together into "sets" and clamped around a form in the shape of a grand piano -- Very similar to the process you are using.

[@ullmannone]

re hip replacement surgery. Here in the US, I had my hip replaced and I was on my feet the very next day, and, in stages, fully recovered by 3 months. It is now being offered on an outpatient basis where a 5 A.M. surgery is quickly completed within 1/2 hour, lunch is served (early) and the patient is up walking, using a walker by noon, and released no later than 6 P.M. No severe pain!

[@MrDodadi]

And in 10 to 20 years? How many artificial hips can they put in your femur? Every loosening takes away some bone. So at some point there isn‘t enough bone left. As far as I know, the idea - apart from U. S., where anything goes and quick fixes seem best - is still to keep your bone as long as possible.

[@waltercook4868]

The sound is good - the mic works very nicely. Can you use a wood that bends easier than oak? I know it is not oak but it can still look nice. Also, can you drill dozens of tiny little pin holes in the wood to make it bend easier?

[@susanward4966]

Love to watch your progress. How about using boards a bit wider than you need and then plane them down after the glue up? Then you wouldn't have to worry about the castellations.

[@hattibugatti]

There are clamps with bit for allen key on the end of the handle, so that you can power it with the drill bit. This would be a big improvement for time and energy saving. Do you know them?

[@conradfjetland4970]

Love the video. I am not sure if this has been mentioned, but something to consider in terms of cost; instead of using oak for all 7 pieces, you could replace some with plywood strips of the same dimensions. They do make good oak laminates that you could use to hide the edges, but I am not sure how it would affect the aesthetics that you are trying to achieve.

[@pattyroe2305]

It is nice to have real time communication. I miss seeing your videos. It doesn't matter what they are about. I'd welcome seeing other parts of your life.

[@andrewgroom2924]

Excellent work Carl!!

[@katiejo1095]

My brother was a spiral stair craftsman. First he made the curved jig form. He made the curved beam by using a 2" thick x 12" wide x(however many feet you need)long board and made dozens of wedge shaped cuts all along the length, having the blade cut it about 3/4 through the thickness, filling in every cut with wood glue, bending and clamping it with dozens of clamps to the jig form. Let it dry for a day. The glue is very strong, just like a glulam but easier to clamp.

[@MikeZMonroe]

****Just thinking out loud - to avoid the staggering effect can you extend the length of each strip? Inner to outer strip grows in length? Not the foggiest idea how that can be calculated but just thinking. **** I see comments from boat builders, now that’s a special talent. **** You gave a great run down on four practical ways of building within your tools / ability. Just wondering how the arches were produced originally?

[@patrickkelley3961]

My father was a craftsman. Built steam boxes to bend many different types of wood from fixing two hundred year old stain glass windows. Some large enough for boat construction and spiral wooden staircases . Keep up the practice and teach anyone you can to pas on the knowledge.