Benji Schwimmer: Coming to Terms with Sexuality and Faith - Mormon Stories 352

In part 3 of a 3 part series, Mormon dancer Benji Schwimmer discusses his coming to terms with his sexuality and his religious faith.
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Timecodes:
00:20 Starting a group about same sex attraction. Getting Evergreen material
02:28 Joining support groups. Needing safety because of his fame. Being reminded
03:55 Unhelpful material. Dancing as a profession
07:25 Reparative therapy
09:37 Explaining about a traumatizing experience, becoming numb
10:23 SSA becoming an issue. Still in contact, but needing to move on
12:23 What if it had happened?
13:14 Difficult but the biggest blessing he ever had
13:47 Buying house and losing everything. Decision to go work again
16:37 Religious views in this time
17:11 'Temple worthy' relationship with his first boyfriend
20:48 Living in the tempting zone, breaking things off
22:34 Telling parents and other family
23:53 Feeling unworthy to take sacrament himself for a while
27:07 Trying to make his feelings and his religion work together
29:26 Finding the love of his life but how that still didn't work out
33:34 Only choices: find a woman or stay celibate
34:12 Keeping himself out of the temple. Really mixed feelings. Depression
37:24 Gay festivals. Getting exposed to just really friendly and nice gay people.
38:57 Imbalance between joy on earth and in the next life
39:37 Asking for a disciplinary council. Scrupulosity
40:43 Hope to find restitution, start with a clean slate
43:56 Talking about BYU secret societies.
45:02 Hearing the verdict. Beautiful experience. Now withdrawing
46:06 Trying to make things work. Thanking John.
48:30 Becoming apologist
50:55 Moving to family ward
58:48 Talk with his 2nd boyfriend. Breakdown
1:02:10 Knowing his answer but having to re-assess
1:03:47 Visit to old Stake President
1:12:35 Getting back to church. Hoping to get his answer - and getting it
1:19:20 Icing on the cake
1:26:40 The message
1:32:59 Changes since resigning
1:38:46 Sabbaticals
1:40:04 Quick reflections about Evergreen etc.
1:43:36 Feedback or council for everyone in a similar position
1:50:10 'Gay bounce'. How avoid it?
1:53:30 Still picking up the pieces
1:56:42 Looking back on spiritual experiences while in
1:58:30 What are your current beliefs
2:02:00 Speaking to people currently in the box
2:04:11 Closing words
#LDS #Mormon #PostMormon #ExMormon #MormonStories #Religion #Education

[@tedtalksrock]

Benji has such a beautiful heart. So much integrity and kindness in him. Lovely, lovely person.

[@mareike5600]

That is so true. I love him for his purity and integrity. Very inspiring and touching.

[@mcmanpa]

This is remarkable story-telling - part testimony, part confessional - of one young gay man’s struggle to say inside the community he grew up in and to be not shut out. He made an exhausting effort over many years to shape his life to the strictures of his church. At the risk of overgeneralizing, it is noteworthy how the tightest racial, religious, sectional interest groups - as the price of their close-knittedness - are often amongst the most inflexible groups in the community, slow to change or progress, with severe harm and hurt caused to their non-conforming members, as shown here. Congrats to Mormon Stories for recording this and posting on youtube.

[@Laura-rd6yg]

I love Benji’s energy, he seems like a really cool, positive person that just radiates happiness. I hope he finds his soulmate when he’s ready!

[@gkun46]

Don't really know how I "happened" upon this video today, but it must've been meant to be. Brilliant, absolutely brilliant. My first Mormon Stories interview video, but how can it get better than this most special one?--and on more levels than one. And I didn't even know Benji Schwimmer was a SYTYCD Champion. Mr. Schwimmer, this, your Part 3 interview, was riveting from start to finish. It was the length of a feature film, but never ever was there a dull moment, because you were so honest. I found myself mouthing certain words or phrases a second before you expressed them, that's how universal your specific experience was! Then (at 1:08:17) when you said (in regards to the new Church policy of the asterisk* staying on your record as a lifetime "sentence") that "This is not of God", if I wasn't afraid of knocking over my laptop on my lightweight table, I would have leaped into the air! That was exactly what I was thinking and you voiced it. And kudos to interviewer Mr. John Dehlin, who laid the foundation of a feeling of comfort and searching for truth and openness for Benji. A 5-star interview if ever there was one! It has begun to change my life, in ways that have nothing to do with being gay, although I am. Thank you so much, everyone involved, including the sensitive, marathoner videographer. I've been one too, so I saw how you imperceptibly followed your person in the flow of the interview. Your work did not go unnoticed. Bravo for this, for Benji's life, and for all of us.

[@nothingpetty]

I am not a believer in any kind of god, but I need to say that I appreciate the testimony given here and I wish love and joy.

[@capitol._reef362]

Thank you Benji!!! This is an escape rope from the dungeon I've been going through all my life. I'm glad I found this at 21 and still young.

[@iwnunn7999]

The more I watch of this........the more my heart breaks for this guy.

[@mathematicalmatt]

"I looked forward to tying my sons ties at church and watching them the first day pass the sacrament and being able to be an adviser and watch them in scouting and go on camping trips and doing these things and here I am wearing a scarlet letter for the rest of my life." (1:08:50) Powerful Benji. Awful.

[@belacaz]

Benji's story probably one of the best I have ever listened to. I wish I would have found it earlier. Inspirational!

[@christiechristopherson2521]

Amazing series of interviews. Especially now after the latest exclusion policy that has been put in place a few years after this interview. Thank you so much for sharing.

[@bangsastelpa]

Thank you for sharing, Benji. The honesty and love truly shine through and I think you will help many with this.

[@thecatman4ever]

Benji has a heart of gold. This was a wonderful interview, thank u

[@oldgypsytap]

An important six hours. Benji is breathtaking in his articulateness and candor....and he's a beautiful dancer to boot.......... An amazing young man.

[@hearttoheart4me]

I would love to see a follow up interview with Benji in 2019. I have watched all 3 parts of these videos. It has been a very huge eye opener for me. Thank you

[@mormonstories]

We had a follow up with Benji ~6 months ago. You may find that interview here: www.mormonstories.org/podcast/benji-schwimmer-life-after/

[@shinyredtwisty]

Thank you for sharing your story so candidly.

[@jshane8882]

I have been so incredibly moved and touched by seeing this interview. Having watched and listened to Benji take us on his incredibly personal and spiritual journey has been both thought provoking but intensely emotional. I am filled with great admiration for this young man and wish him great joy, happiness, blessings and peace as his life's journey continues.

[@jessalynsorensen8836]

Benji should go on Mormon stories again for an updated interview. I'd love to see what he's up to now, and how the November 2015 policy affected his life and Mormon relationships.

[@noborikoon]

Agree to this in 2022!

[@rolandvachon9848]

@@noborikoon Check out episodes 1,000 and 1,001 if you haven's already seen them.

[@rezrunner1217]

what a crazy interveiw, thank you, for opening my eyes to a whole new perspective. I wish only joy and happiness for your future.

[@ekiselazelka]

when I saw how long these are, I thought there is no way I can watch it all, but here I am 5,5 hours later. much respect and all the best Benji, all the best

[@tenorbear60]

Good for you Benji, live your authentic life. God bless you.

[@jittersaunt]

The thing that resonated the most with me is the part about letting go of focusing on sin and turning that energy to focus on how you can be of service. The other point that got me was the lifting of the veil and seeing everyone as brother and sister, not just those that were in the church. This was an AMAZING 5 hour journey and I thank you both so much for it.

[@zajournals]

I've watched all 5+ hours of this and find Benji honorable and so worthy of having a devoted loving husband. I'm so happy he left religion. 🙂

[@migonza67]

Fantastic series. I truly admire Benji for going through this journey and coming out a better person knowing that he still feels like he needs to help and serve others--what a genuine human being. Congratulations!

[@ayalarichc]

Thank you Benji for opening up. This is completely free of typical stereotypes, but full of intellectual rapport. I completely love your honesty and candor! Love this video Caroline

[@LianteakaLia]

I want to thank you for sharing your story. It truly touched me deeply. Telling it must have been so hard but it's so important for people to hear it. Because it's people like you that shows that there is hope for humanity, that shows that there is still good to be found in men and women. Thank you for bringing us that hope.

[@mr0alternitive]

Thank you Benji Swimmer! That was one of the most touching interviews I have ever seen. I could relate to so many things you talked about. You deserve every bit of happiness, every bit of peace, and all the love in the world. Thank You!

[@andrewvogt8765]

As a West Coast Swing dancer, I am moved by the depth of this West Coast Swing and dance icon. Thank you, Benji, for choosing a path of life where I and so many others are blessed by your gift of dance!

[@isachi6251]

Thank You Benji and Jon. Your story and words are helping an 18 year old boy lost in limbo. Both of you are so brave for sharing your life experiences and i hope that i can one day help people the way you have helped me. I admire you guys and also a shout out to all the people that help make these videos. Bless you wonderful people.

[@nujac321]

What a great interview. Very informative.

[@lordsxman]

I'm not a Mormon. I'm an agnostic gay man that grew up conservatively baptist. I can relate with the entire story of Benji as my experience is VERY similar; especially the part about picking up the pieces of the snow globe to see what still fit. Thank You sooo much for sharing your story Benji. I wish there'd been something like this 12 years ago when I came out and attempted to reconcile my faith.

[@mdixon1982]

Wow... This is incredible. I am so moved and this will stay with me for a long time.

[@184721]

Love this guy so much. Thanks Benji for who you are, what you do, and for being your best self! Always a fan.

[@Soma_me_dance]

Thank you for this. It was beautiful.

[@wtcarter2]

What an absolutely fabulous testimony and epic spiritual journey! Benji shows us what it means to be truly spiritual and to choose "the better part." His testimony moved me to tears and changed my mind and heart! I'm reminded of something Jesus said: "10 But into whatsoever city [congregation?] ye enter, and they receive you not, go your ways out into the streets of the same, and say, 11 Even the very dust of your city, which cleaveth on us, we do wipe off against you: notwithstanding be ye sure of this, that the kingdom of God is come nigh unto you. 12 But I say unto you, that it shall be more tolerable in that day for Sodom, than for that city." (Luke 10) Indeed! It will surely be more tolerable for this young man -- who has the faith and love of Nephi! -- than for those who condemn him, though they never faced the challenges he has faced. I believe in mercy. I believe in the grace. I believe in forgiveness. And I believe this young man has done ALL that he could do in the service of his God. There is indeed a path of escape! And this young man has shown just how far the LDS Church can go (but can go no farther). He has "evolved." He is now in a far, far better place. I wish him the very, very best.

[@eksplosyon]

just finished the whole 3 parts of the video. It was a great story of a beautiful human being.

[@AnthonyBenjie]

Thank you and thank you. What a brave soul! I believe love is love, regardless of gender. You are beautiful and I love your honesty! I can totally relate, growing up as LDS and living in Utah and feeling judged all the time. And yes, I do have that asterisk you were talking about and the reason why I left the church. Thanks for sharing your honest thoughts. I love and respect the Church. I hope someday that people in the church could actually Love More and Judge Less!

[@micmac_billyjack]

Thanks Benji for sharing your story. John - it is great of you to give a voice to the marginalized. Keep the interviews coming.

[@SpeedyBlueDemon]

I was planning on watching only the SYTYCD portion and I ended up watching the whole thing. Great interview. Thanks for uploading it.

[@nanlev613]

I love Benji’s ability to see the bigger picture; when the man told him he’s gay but married to his second wife and Benji said how many lives have to be ruined and how many kids will be abandoned. This clearly demonstrates his ability to look at the bigger picture!

[@jjcckky]

LOVE this. Benji, I've always been a fan! You are great! I hope you can continue to feel happiness in your life.

[@mr.bob4630]

I didn't know anything about Benji Schwimmer before watching this video but was very moved by his story. His path to self-acceptance and self-affirmation against all odds is inspiring. I feel thankful for all the love and support he received when he most needed it. I respect and admire him, I'm grateful for the happiness and peace he's achieved and I hope he finds the love and fulfillment he seeks. No one could deserve it more.

[@DaveMcGrath]

So beautiful. Become the salt that brings savor to the whole world. But first... Leave Zion. LOVED IT!

[@bethenydavis3756]

So proud of you Benji! Always will be

[@rrrrrrrr290]

Thank you so much for sharing your story, Love you man, Fight the good fight, I pray God will continue to bless your life as I'm sure he is.

[@jerleypimentel1088]

I have been a fan since sytycd days, know that you are wonderful person no matter who you are

[@bucknips]

Such an amazing testimony...

[@Helama2]

This guy is amazing! I've been crying, smiling and praying during this whole interview. What an inspiring one! Thanks for bringing this piece of peace, reflection and decision into my world. P.s.: Benji, I hope to meet you someday. I need to have friends (or a husband) with this natural spirituality. :)

[@amandapayne3135]

I watched this purely because of my love of dance and sat enthralled by Benji's story,what an inspirational young man,I wish him love and luck in his furture. Very sad that he had such a painful path to his new empowered self but as he says that is how he learned so much, Powerful interview,many thanks and much love to you,I would be very proud to have you as a son.x

[@Mrundergroundman]

I needed this, wow, wish i would've know about this sooner.

[@larrybolles]

You are very brave! Most people could not fathom your pain and your real desire to have integrity. What you were willing to do to be right with God is so rare. Righteousness comes to those with empty hands and hearts who know they need the forgiveness that comes from Jesus. The church cannot save us or give us lasting peace. Thank you for being so transparent. You have a heart to seek righteousness. Many would find this a fault. False guilt is an issue but the true desire to be forgiven that leads to what is good brings joy and not more pain. It is hard to know the difference at times. He has changed our mourning into dancing! You have so many gifts even beyond your amazing ability to dance! Thank you for sharing your struggles and how you desire to follow God in all you do. May the rest of your life be very rich and fulfilling.

[@nanlev613]

Since I’m not LDS I don’t know certain things that he’s talking about but his inner struggle was so raw. I can relate first hand.

[@ryanhollist3950]

This is that first I've heard of that policy that the disciplinary mark stays on record for the rest of their lives. Is that still policy, and if not when was it revoked?

[@imeldaparaditha4422]

I thought I would skip skip skip during watching this video but apparently I stayed calm and watched full for the 2 hours. All I can say is this is the most respectful and dedicated person I've ever known.

[@hollybird54321]

This is very enlightening. I love him!!!

[@jaspar38]

I was brought to this video from a video about Benji's coming out. At first I was like "Well, duh." and was expecting to come on here to watch maybe five minutes. Now it is two hours and change later. What I saw here was an amazing interview with an articulate, intelligent, thoroughly engaging man. I wish that I had the chance to meet him because I want to give him a hug, take him to dinner, and talk to him for another two hours about everything under the sun. Good for you, Benji!

[@lovingeachday1989]

Love you so much Benji!!! Wish you all the best in your future!!!

[@StewNWT]

I hadn't realized Benji was this thoughtful and intelligent. Extremely attractive guy, both inside and out.

[@StewNWT]

Benji, it has been obvious since Day 1 of your presence in the public eye that you are a being of pure joy and a credit to humanity. Watching this emotional and spiritual roller coaster you have gone through fills me with righteous fury - that you had to suffer the misfortune to have grown up in this twisted and gnarled Phariseean construct of a form of worship that degraded so much about you that brings light to the people you love. You ARE worthy - both of God and a man who loves you.

[@nanlev613]

Okay I’m sobbing now listening to Benji talk about how your podcasts saved him from wanting to kill himself!! You just never know what impact you’re going to have on someone! I absolutely love his authenticity and transparency!!! I had to pause the video!

[@terryhuggins8414]

Wow....just watched.....amazing and inspiring....thank you.

[@LimeGreenNewb]

I no longer see the sequined dancer. I now see the man. I'm deeply moved by his story and his spirit.

[@ernest3286]

"I don't need to 'I-know-it'."

[@kittydreamz86]

I'm neither Mormon nor gay, but I was a fan of Benji's back in Season 2. I began watching the video, not sure if there would be anything of relevance to me but wanting to hear what he had to say. I thought, "Maybe there's some truth in this for me," and I was right. It would take too long and be irrelevant to anyone other than me, I think to explain how, but I needed to see this. I'm hurt by how much loss he (you?) experienced. I don't know how anyone could come to this video and testimony and feel anything other than empathy and anger at the suffering you experienced... Your journey towards God echoes my own in some strange ways - in the past and in the present. I hope you feel the presence of God in your life in a real way again in a community gathers around you and loves you the way that we are meant to love each other. I'm very glad you shared this - hopefully it brings healing, courage, strength and hope to others who need it. I'm certainly glad to have found it.

[@nanlev613]

You are an awesome interviewer!!

[@KMartin730]

Thanks so much for this video. I think Benji is one fabulous human being

[@kennethd.9436]

Awesome Video!

[@JohnW4ng]

This should be required viewing for every Mormon before they're allowed to form an opinion about gay Mormons.

[@TheRedGynger]

He's a cutey pie! I am glad for his discovery and that he is doing better

[@suvariboy]

You're an amazing guy Benji!

[@sachamo100]

God bless you, Benji Schwimmer.

[@ElfSelf76]

For my own issues, which aren't even the same issues I've just been helped by a brother TY

[@bradberwick]

So much pain he had! He could have prevented that if he'd just been honest with himself after falling for the "love of his life". It's so clear that this is a smart, deeply feeling, highly moral, honest man.Yet, his religion told him he was "unworthy". He just needed to know it's okay to be human, with the same feelings anyone else has: falling in love, loneliness, despair and finally joy. True joy. HIS joy. I just hope he hasn't decided to live a celibate life. Responsible sex is one the the great pleasures of life. Why would a loving god give it to us then prohibit our enjoyment of it? Doesn't make sense. Good on you, Benji. Have a great, meaningful life.

[@billiebutton18]

That was the main part I was interested in. I've been riveted though. Watched all of SYTYCD part and this part.

[@tonyoneillinc]

Benji, you are the prophet my friend. You are the prophet.

[@keriamakrueger4493]

+Tony O'Neill - Don't be such an Idol worshiper!

[@user-xj5vv3ej9i]

Talking of sensuality and spirituality, the best book I have found is 'Karmasutra' by Staju Jacob. An exceptional book which explores the connection between karma and sensuality. It is a rare to find a book that discusses these two aspects of life without too much religious dogmas. It can also challenging for a layperson, particularly a Westerner or someone who hasn't read religious texts, to understand the complex laws of karma so this book simplifies it all. This 2016 book 'Karmasutra' By Staju Jacob (by the way it is not the kama sutra book 🙂 with pictures about how to do it... but a different book) provides a nuanced and comprehensive understanding of karma and its impact on consensual sex and sexuality, curses, occult, and the karmic system. Furthermore, it presents these ideas without relying on vague terminology from Eastern religions. It is a remarkable book. I think the author is of Indian origin...some guru of some sort maybe.. Hope this book becomes widely available in all languages.... 🙂

[@KoldingDenmark]

I think I fell into pt 3, but will watch the others also. You should write a book. (I you not already have).

[@2ler4u]

So nice guy. I like him. All the best!

[@lookhowshegobbledthat]

Such a nice guy. Do whatever works for you. Be respectful and never put religion or tradition above your peace of mind. Finding a balance is what everyone's looking for.

[@porterhouse1974]

What a story..I would have never known by just seeing him on TV and at dance conventions he went through all of this...

[@tonyoneillinc]

This was three years ago... does anyone know how he is now? I hope to go he's not suffering.

[@jesse1008]

Beautiful

[@tiffanymitchell-fultz9276]

I LOVE HIM!

[@kosmonaut5]

"I adore the poop out of you" awwww :3

[@chrisk5651]

He's already cried a lot both during the interview & during stories where he said that he did.

[@dafv2011]

Wow that was a great story. I can't believe the pain Benji had to go through to finally get out of the church but I think he is right that we all have to follow our own path. I am a big skeptic so I think that it was just his brain telling him what he needed to survive but whatever it was I am glad he found peace. I am trying to figure out my sexuality now but I am glad I am already out of the church so hopefully it will be easier. It still isn't going to be easy with my family though.

[@pal0oz]

what a bro. what a cool dude.

[@douglaswilkinson5700]

The "scarlet letter" is a stigma of shame. The * will be on your record till you die.

[@Esmyi]

I feel the same exact way I see him differently, but I just respect him so much more now that I know his story

[@ldsrevelations]

3 parts. Long but good. I hadn't heard of Benji before, never watched SYTYCD and am not a huge dance fan but am a disaffected Mormon. I have to say that I Benji appears to be a great person- dynamic, sincere and loving of all people and he has a pretty amazing story. Hope his story helps who are gay and LDS or those LDS who are doubting. There is a beautiful world outside of the LDS Church and culture. Is there good in the Church? Sure. But it's more than OK to leave if you need to.

[@bannedtalks2030]

How many hours you got Benji speaking on camera???

[@BottleConcreteBlond]

By the end of this, whatever issues I may have had with some of what he said faded away. I think he's a very sweet, evolving young man who seems to have an open mind. I think as he is exposed more to the gay community he will get over some of his issues regarding masculinity. I look forward to seeing where he goes and I wish him all the best.

[@Kayjee17]

John, I don't know if you or your staff is keeping up with old comments, but if you are I'd just like to pass on a message to Benji: I pray that your life is so much better now, Benji. You are a fantastic young man, and exactly the way God made you - if you still believe in God. I have left the church myself, with the November policy being the final straw for me, but I still believe in God. However, I respect all my fellow exmormons who no longer believe in God. I just want us all to find peace and to do good for each other because that is the highest meaning of human life.

[@codeincomplete]

Are you a deist now? Have you gone back and read the bible since you left the church? The old testament has vile things to say about homosexuality (and other equally vile things). If the November policy is bad what does that make stoning gays?

[@hollidayevery]

Passion and anger are two very different emotions. Benj sounds like he would like to be understood (truly understood), and that people with stereotypical perceptions will not truly understand, because of their limited insights. He doesn't seem internally angered at all. He seems sooooo much cooler than I ever gave him credit for being. He actually seems more free than I have ever noticed. Before this, he always seemed to have a wall up. I now see why.

[@Lepewhi]

Hi, I'm not a Mormon, but have experiences in religion(Catholicism). I believe some people grow out of a prescribed 'religion'. I'm not saying that staying in a religious context is wrong, but some feel they find what they are looking for outside of the constraints as you did. I wish you much luck on your individual journey, mine has been amazing.Those that say being gay is a 'sin' are ill informed(ignorant). To thine own self be true.

[@sonicfrogdotnet]

PS. Khuno... thx for no ad homs. Shows class and is aways apreciated.

[@fozomomo5734]

benjie i never knew... you are brave. very very brave

[@jjcckky]

1:27... The only time I truly feel like I've felt the spirit at church is when I hear the primary sing.

[@cstevenson]

Benji is amazing. He spoke about how awesome the Church would be if Gays had full fellowship. I totally agree. Homosexuality is a stone weighing heavily upon the fabric of Christianity, including Mormonism. If the Church doesn't come to grips with it, the fabric will rip, and Christianity may collapse. The Church has always received revelations when it was expedient (the First Vision, the Word of Wisdom, the Manifesto, and the 1978 Priesthood Revelation). It's time for another one.

[@sonicfrogdotnet]

"You're drawing a moral equivalence between the calculated policy directives and machinations of politicians with that of the mormon church?" Actually, you are the one who pointed that out, that the LDS only changed for political reasons. The human species thrives and depends on politics to survive. We're all politicians in our own ways, both as individuals, and as groups. The Catholic Church accepted divorce when it became apparent to it that not to do so would be catastrophic.

[@themoronscribe]

...I'm fascinated.