Microtonal Production - Ben Levin

[@je-pq3de]

Is there a free midi plugin for retuning?

[@BenLevin]

I have been looking around and am struggling to find one that is easy to use. I will pin this to the top, maybe other people will know.

[@javonaziz5323]

Check out the musician "Sevish". He has a website with a bunch of microtonal resources. I have been playing microtonal music with a couple of free plugins for about a month and am loving it! Only problem with the free stuff is I have had a couple of issues with buggy stuff and actually getting tuning files (but there are enough links on Sevish's site to dive in and start making noises :)

[@lunaharran]

Like Javon said, Sevish is a good source. Googling 'Xenharmonics' might be helpful to you too. I often use VSThost combined with IVOR2 and a midi keyboard, but it can be a bit fiddly.

[@JorvanderPoel]

Microtonal MIDI notes don't work that well because the synths you play won't understand them, the MIDI plugins that claim to be microtonal actually send pitch-bend messages, which is very buggy in most cases, and inaccurate at best. Simply because it needs to send a lot of values per second. The best way to approach this instead is to make sure your source (the actual synth you're playing) uses a microtonal tuning file, which you can make with Scala. If you just plan on using existing Microtonal scales, you can download them at the included link, just put them in the Tuning directory of the synth you want to use and you're good to go :) Here's a link of a few popular synths that support custom scales, there are way more though: subaqueousmusic.com/list-of-microtonal-vst-synths-and-plugins/ And here's where you download the scales: www.huygens-fokker.org/scala/downloads.html#scales

[@gustavoturm]

I've been looking for one too, but I guess that the best thing to do is to work with Scala.

[@Vininn126]

If Coltrane made music out of this, would he call it Tiny Steps?

[@aidensthetic]

Vininn126 underrated

[@notmagicok7612]

funny

[@cachorrodragao6679]

There’s actualy a microtonal song called micro steps

[@baileyayre4423]

This is one of the most criminally underrated comments I ever ever seen

[@regularsalamander]

Reasons I subscribed: "That sounds like poo and a half" "It's like a terrible sponge bath"

[@iiXalexXii]

"It's like a terrible sponge bath."

[@BenLevin]

Rashes, rashes and rashes.

[@stefan1024]

"Terrible Sponge Bath" is a cool band name.

[@sebastianzaczek]

0:38 "there's C and C..." *plays sounding F#*

[@markusmiekk-oja3717]

Although quartertone scales can be pretty interesting, I think this suffers from the same problem as most quarter tone music does: overuse of the quartertone as an interval. 24TET brings a whole bunch of new intervals - neutral seconds, subminor thirds, neutral thirds, supermajor thirds, quartertone sharp fourths, quartertone flat fifths, subminor sixths, neutral sixths ... Yet it seems everyone just focuses on the quartertone. (For the record, I'll be using ^ for quartertone sharp, and v for quartertone flat. Note names will just use 'most convenient spelling' rather than a spelling that respects the type of interval.) Scalewise, the kind of hyperchromatic thing one easily gets with quartertone voice leading is not particularly exciting either. For a while it's a bit exciting, but ... scales that use the potential of quartertones a bit more powerfully can be more interesting, both in the sonorities and the voice leading they force one to use. As examples of scales, consider any of the usual suspects (and here, I include all the vast repertoire of scales that modern musicians use in the usual temperament) with one, two or three quartertone alterations. Flatten that minor third a bit. "Neutralize" the second in a minor scale. Sharpen the major third in a lydian scale (or flatten the fourth). 'Merge' the sixths and sevenths in the dorian into a supermajor sixth/subminor seventh. Or flatten both by a quartertone. Harmonic minor with the seventh a bit flat? Or move the sixth and seventh slightly towards one another. Or go ahead and stack one of the new intervals - just like the C major scale is a stack of fifths from F to B, try stacking the neutral third (C-Ev-G-Bv-D-F^-A-... for a scale of, for instance CDEvF^GABv) or the supermajor second (for a scale of C-D^-F-G^-Bb, for a pentatonic thing), or the supermajor third, etc. Stack the neutral seconds for 8 tone equal temperament (an 'equal dim' scale!) Chordwise, the neutral triad can sort of provide a bit new excitement, but is really quite dissonant. The subminor and supermajor thirds are a bit less dissonant, and do sort of give off a more 'familiar' sound, without being too vanilla. Altering the fifth by a quartertone is something I haven't even tried, but I guess it might no be all that nice-sounding. Could be a neat effect, though. Of course, we can use these chords too for building scales - maybe take three 'subminor' triads and place them at C,F and G. Or three supermajor or neutral ones. When we get into seventh-chords, though, the quartertone flat minor seventh is pretty neat. (e.g. C,E,G,A^) However, there's a different interesting thing that exists: the 8:11:14 triad and its inverse. Since the quartertone-sharp fourth is close to the eleventh overtone, and the quartertone-flat minor seventh is close to the seventh overtone. Eleventh overtone moved down to the first octave is 11/8, seventh overtone is 7/4. But 7/4 can be written as 14/8, and since the root is 1/1, we can get a triad consisting of 8/8, (8+3)/8,( 8+3+3)/8 (for reference, major chords are 4/4, 5/4, 6/4). Try it out! [C, F^, A^]. (note: A^ is kinda slightly out of tune, but not terribly so). The "minor chord analogy" is C,E^,A^ (Thus 14/14, 14/11, 14/8, c.f. how minor chords are 6/6, 6/5, 6/4) These chord are interesting in having similar voice-leading properties to our common chords, i.e. one can go from one to another using lots of smooth voice leading things if we include inversions. Just some suggestions. I hope no one feels entirely drowned in these ideas.

[@BenLevin]

Thanks for all these cool ideas! I went through and tried some of these and I am surprised by how much the context of what comes before and after them changes how much I like the intervals on a basic level. Like, just playing them doesn't usually feel so hot, but then if I try them in an improv, they can sound really great if I lead into them well.

[@markusmiekk-oja3717]

Cool, I was afraid I had gone too far into tl;dr; territory there :) Also, I forgot to say that this is a good video, and I really appreciate it whenever youtubers like yourself bring up microtonality :D

[@BenLevin]

I can tell you really love music. Thank you for your passion!

[@KleversonRoyther]

Thanks for the big comment! I need a whole video or a fucking channel talking all about this! I'd like to use microtonality in a western context in the future and having a grasp of the theory side would be amazing!

[@blubberdust]

I wouldn't say it "suffers from a problem". Just because someone utilizes 24TET differently than you doesn't mean they've done it incorrectly.

[@Nate_Makes_Noise]

1:06 don't you mean poo and a quarter?

[@BenLevin]

Ah, wish I had thought of that!

[@rbessuges]

That's what I heard ^^

[@p.as.in.pterodactyl1024]

Yeah I swallowed a quarter once too ;)

[@graphene1487]

7:05 is pretty amazing. it really pushes and pulls

[@lydia6787]

Hello, I’m a 17 year old high school student from Berlin and currently working on a research project (towards my high school graduation) evolving around perception of microtonal music. Besides the concept and historical background overview that I want to describe in my research paper (have also planned to visualise the concept on an infographic website I’m currently programming). I want to add experiments related to perception of microtones. Here’s some of the things I’ve read in my very brief literature survey: analysis of perception - perception of microtonal (quarter tone) intervals vs twelve tet intervals (consonant and disonant) of musicians and non-musicians in terms "roughness" rating and "liking". - one interesting issue is how musicians and non musicians categorise microtonal level intervals. in chromatic and diatonic context - how micro can a microtonal scale be without destroying the identifiability of typical melodic fragments in other words what is the smallest practical interval size between adjacent scale steps. (Parncutt + Cohen) - when tinkering around with certain parameters such as tonal, duration, metric, interval size, melodic contour, accents/weighting in various melody fragments and evaluating the musical stability (have to look into this one..) I have the next little less than a year to delve into this project, and will turn it in - in the form of a 20 paged research paper. I’m looking for any feedback - which of these could lead to problems? Are there any additional ideas you would have? Just thought I’d throw this out here - seems like the right kinda crowd.

[@crimsun7186]

The second example felt the most like it could be an actual song that might work, since it doesn't focus too much on the intervals and making them the center piece of the song, which is usually what happens when people write in odd time signatures.

[@realjillbiden]

you can actually resolve a dominant chord using quartertones by moving each not in a tritone put a quartertones. for example to resolve F & B tritone you move the B up a quartertone and the F down a quartertone to create a perfect fifth

[@gonzoengineering4894]

Ben I hope you continue this path. There's a wild world of sound out there. Try 19 or 15 tones to the octave if you want something more manageable on the keyhands.

[@BenLevin]

Thanks Aaron, I have to give that a try!

[@TheELectricStylez]

This was so freakin good man. It was so stimulating in a way, as you descripted it with tension and release. Sure the first thing I thought of was king gizzard but they used em so they sounded kinda like eastern traditional music but you put it in a whole new context. I am impressed.

[@BenLevin]

Thanks Josh! I was trying to just do my own thing with it, I'm definitely not an expert. Glad you enjoyed the results!

[@dliessmgg]

I've been experimenting with 17TET a bit, but not just using the whole array of tones, but selecting scales with steps of one or two tones between scale degrees, with similar distribution of notes as in the modes based on 12 tones.

[@jogo2000]

I really liked that final example with the worbly electric piano pattern + vocals.

[@dasapples]

The fourth song and the way you explain it after always gives me chills.. I really like that and would love to hear a full song like that! Great video dude!

[@a1guitarmaker]

Cool. I used to practice chromatic scales on guitar bending up and down to the quartertone between each half step. I could easily build a quartertone mandolin or something like that. You inspire.

[@hebermax222]

a constant pyramid song feel

[@BenLevin]

I know what you mean!

[@kaff_1o169]

Exactly what I was thinking when I heard the second melody! Great work Doc!

[@mathkrGames]

I think the 3rd one sounded like a circus, but all the non-human animals are humans and vice versa. The circus director is a sea lion with a top hat.

[@JamieHarka]

the way you explain the emotion of each vibe clicks with me so much, great viewing interesting compositions, thanks for this video!

[@selfadvocacy403]

Why have you had a terrible sponge bath before?

[@OnlyARide]

I really love to see musicians go down the microtonal rabbit hole! Please, if you have the urge to dig deeper 22 equal temperament, or Bohlen-pierce. I LOVE hearing music in those tunings, they are both so underexplored.

[@BenLevin]

Thank you for the suggestions, I haven't tried those yet!

[@halflearned2190]

I only watch these for metaphors like "a terrible sponge bath".

[@BenLevin]

I'm a dirty boy and the sponges are prickly :(

[@mikefearon3577]

I lost it. :')

[@TheNachoNugget]

Have you heard of Ivan Wyschnegradsky? Really cool classical piano quarter tone music

[@BenLevin]

No but I'll check him out, thanks!

[@Vojife]

Please release a microtonal album! I didn't really enjoy the terrible sponge bath that much, but the rest was amazing, especially the fourth one (the bit at 2:30 as well)!

[@co_iso]

you give me a whole new perspective on music with every video. an incredible inspiration. keep it up Ben Levin!

[@davidasher22]

I’ve done something similar to this years ago. But instead or tuning one keyboard into quarter steps I took two keyboards and tuned one of them in between the other. It made making the chords easier and all you had to do was switch between keyboards to get the microtonal effect.

[@metahed]

3:47 reminded me of something Cyriak would write! That's fuggin' awesome!

[@BenLevin]

Ah I hadn't heard of Cyriak, that's fun stuff!

[@AlbySilly]

I loved the last example! Have you released any other microtonal songs/videos?

[@ScottPenick]

The Cholula hot sauce is a nice touch. Really brings out the quarter-tone flavors.

[@nickberkner2146]

The chords that should be normal triads still sound slightly out of tune. Is it just me?

[@Riskofdisconnect]

I hear it too. I'm not sure but it might be cause the notes are mathematically tuned while the notes on a nomal piano are tuned just a little bit off to sound even.

[@russell_szabados]

Connor Barber : yes, you're correct that the natural, mathematical formula produces chords that sound out of tune.

[@lepistanuda]

our tuning system is fairly out of tune from a just intoned perspective, but pitch is relative, so we're comparing the correct tuning in just intonation to the correct tuning in our system

[@russell_szabados]

Jep Hep : no arguing with that, that's a very true statement.

[@MattScottMusic]

Nick Berkner Yep, they didn’t sound like equal tempered major triads, I was struggling to work out if it was an aural illusion down to the context of hearing the quarter tones, but I definitely noticed it too. The comments above about equal temperament being “out of tune” are missing the point. We are used to equal temperament and this was something else.

[@gratefulpipeandcigar3239]

The sound is melting. Very Satie.

[@Dolores5000]

These are great applications for such a strange interval layout It’s creative and good

[@noahschuler6388]

Could you try dividing an octave into 16 or 32 steps?

[@noratinner4725]

Interesting stuff, Ben! I think that microtonal music definitely has a future. You should definitely check out Philipp Gerschlauer, he also uses a Microtonal piano, but uses even finer division: 128 tones/octave

[@serseriherif9530]

To get a feel for microtonal music (also called 'modal music' by ross daly) I would study middle eastern classical and folk traditions and maqams because that's where they are generally used in the world. I mean it's a cool idea to approach microtonality from a western perspective (i've never seen other people attempt it in this way) but it stays very 'theoretical' imo because there is no existant culture to back it up, unless you use scale concepts from middle eastern and hindi traditions

[@BenLevin]

Good point! I studied Turkish and Arabic music a little and agree that the most inspiring uses of microtones I've heard come from middle eastern folk traditions. However, I wouldn't say I was being all that theoretical in this video if you check out the stuff I made later in the video, I was really just going with my ear.

[@llRoBoBinHoll]

If you ain't redlining, you ain't headlining! I believe there are microtonal fingerings for saxophone btw, there are for clarinet at least.

[@BenLevin]

True all around!

[@alaindubois1505]

Thanks Ben. I may be going towards what Markus Miekk-oja is saying. I'm intrigued with the maths used in gaining useful intervals to use in chords or partial chords, as we must use the equal temperament to get European chords, but can't in an Arabic or Indian 'mode' or whatever we call these note relationships that still tend to have six notes between the octave. Since middle A is 440 Hz [cycles per second], we would have a perfect fifth at 660, but we don't have a perfect third on the keyboard. I haven't done the calculations, but would that be close to the quarter note between C and C# from A4, and be 550 Hz? The thing is, as I'm not au fait with chord progressions or landing on a tonic etc. I may be playing something in E or A minor, but want the last note of a phrase to finish somewhere between C and C#, as this with the underlying chord seems to sound harmonious. So, instead of using the whole range of quarter tones, is there like an Indian/Arabic mode where we can make at least some chords? Perhaps it isn't using equal temperament quarter notes, but tuning some of the octave close to a quarter note distance from some of the usual keyboard notes. I just haven't used Cubase enough to work out how to scale some notes differently, or where I should tune them to, to get an Indian/Arabic sound 'scale' that can actually make chords using mathematical ratios. Something to add flavour to Jazz chordings. it probably is what Markus Miekk-oja said 3 years ago. I'm just after more 'good'-sounding intervals that may be used to construct 'pleasant' chords. To work on frequencies, I'd use A440 as the 'tonic' tone.

[@Ellotus13]

Microtones are so cool! It never crossed my mind, but I'd love to see you shread on a Ron Sword guitar. Cool stuff again my dude, keep up the good work!

[@BenLevin]

I would love to get my hands on one for a video!

[@HoggerKiller]

Great exploration of quarter tones Ben!

[@BenLevin]

Thank you very much!

[@MoeThermodynamics]

The third and fourth songs were amazing!

[@shoo_be_doo]

Have you considered trying something in 19 TET?

[@MrHidan30]

Or 15 TET or 31 TET?

[@BenLevin]

I haven't tried that yet, thanks for the suggestion!

[@markusmiekk-oja3717]

19tet is "popular" since it conserves the shape of the diatonic scale, i.e. all wholetones are now three 'steps', all semitones are two. In addition most diatonic intervals are nicely in tune. Jazz-style or expressionist-style modulation might get deformed, though. Same holds for 31.

[@EchoHeo]

I like 22edo the most

[@simsim4444]

Massive game changer, amazing video. Thanks Ben

[@CaeSharp]

Even the perfect intervals sound ben(t) to me now.

[@evieatarax]

Isak Gjerstad I think he tuned it evenly as opposed to interpolating between equal tempered, creating a slightly "out of tune" effect

[@CaeSharp]

Good, started question my self a bit much there. So that A to D is not the ratio of 2/3 or 440/660 but 440/24*8semitones(for the fifth)+440, so 440 for A and 586 for D?

[@mustafaozylmaz6815]

I strongly recommend you to check Turkish "makam music". It has microtonal sounds.

[@logiarhythm3044]

the third one somehow reminds me on Dvar's Rhakilim album :D enjoying this all a lot!

[@juanmamel17]

Hey Ben your videos are really inspiring and fun. Cool.

[@BenLevin]

Thank you, I'm glad you dig em!

[@fabiovonbrasche9102]

So, a good friend of mine plays an traditional Turkish instrument (saz?) and he told me that they only use one or two micro tones per scale. Despite that, great video and I loved the second and fourth examples! Keep it up man ^^

[@BenLevin]

Saz is very cool! The reason I have a track called Turkish 24 tone is because that's the name of a preset on my sampler.

[@marcrummusic]

I love this kind of stuff. I'll definitely be ding more of this when I finish my grade 8 classical in May. Nice one Ben. :)

[@procrast]

weird is easy, beauty is the real challenge.

[@BenLevin]

Agreed. With the microtonal stuff, there is a lot of beauty to be found, but weird is the first thing that comes to mind.

[@joerivera6334]

Mannnnn Ben I love your music

[@tillschulz7522]

3 times WoW! This is soooooooooooo cool. Eye-opening. How can I retune my keyboard like this? Can anyone help?

[@TarverdiyevRafael]

U have nice music ideas on microtonal scale,i just wondered

[@AhmetCanK]

Hey Ben! Maybe you can look into the makam music of the middle east and incorporate something from those scales, which generally has different microtones when ascending from descending. And also not all of them are a quarter tone apart, like in just intonation.

[@kevin_dasilva]

How did you do this on your software, Ben?? What did you use?

[@user-lk2vo8fo2q]

man, these videos are such a gift! it's hard to find good tutorials for experimental composition. just out of curiosity - are you working in boston these days?

[@Mich_Trip]

Awesome vid! I ve never consider doing something microtonal, like I wouldn't dare to, but your vid has inspired me and actually enlight me haha. Keep it up!!!

[@danieltorres8828]

How did you manage to tune your keyboard like this??

[@OJASCKI]

ben is my spirit animal

[@adrianvaksdal]

6:21 Sounds like Dead Ships - Canary Bodies :)

[@jorick2194]

Dude you got some awesome sounds there! It sounds really new but it works somehow!

[@BenLevin]

Thanks Jorick! I think so too, I am pumped!

[@javonaziz5323]

Do you have a tun file that I could download for the 24 tone per octave? I can't get Scala working on my computer at the moment so I have just been using random tuning files when making microtonal music. Thanks. :)

[@BenLevin]

I used a program called Keyscape that has all the different tunings as presets, so I don't have the file. Sorry Javon!

[@javonaziz5323]

Ben Levin it's all good! :) I have just been loading in random tun files and playing around with overlaying different tunings. It's a really fun way of coming up with harmony that you wouldn't already think of if you haven't tried that already :D

[@Enders]

This is what my music sounds like to non-cyborgs. I'll have my bots call your bots. Its time for a intergalactic record deal, Ben.

[@Abihef]

sweet man, I thought I was the only one who loved this kinda shif, nice stuff man

[@dooshmagee2165]

Flying Microtonal Banana by King Gizzard and the Lizard Wizard uses microtones in such cool jammy way, i recommend giving it a listen

[@TarverdiyevRafael]

Man u are very creative,nice music information.Subscribed

[@Omanaite]

now that's a spongebath I'll never forget

[@notavailable7021]

Whoa, dude. The last piece was dope !

[@mahdimohammadi5231]

man! your fantasy! is awkwaard i like it

[@RafaelAAMerlo]

Hey Ben Levin, one suggestion: check out the channel of Dolores Catherino, @Dolomuse, she has great works and even a weel developed notation system for this =)

[@SlyHikari03]

3:48 this reminds me of the music from the game portal.

[@lepistanuda]

pls post the song at the end in full!!?

[@tabletdoodlewithtomtdt6679]

hi sir can you alter the tone of only few notes? like F and B both quarter flat ? thank you.

[@DiamondSane]

Cyriak is happy with your sound

[@moonturkey]

Could you please tell us how you tuned the piano and made your set up in the first place? :)

[@aaronp1129]

Hey Ben, Amazing content as always! One question, is your Keystation is connected into focusrite?

[@nicholascowan1731]

is there something causing a time slide between notes？ sounds like the pitch slides rather than instantly changes

[@easementh]

that second one had a beginning that reminded me of The Beatles "because the world is round"

[@RizalBudiLeksono]

Try Sundanese mictotonal scales like Degung, Pelog, Madenda, and Salendro please!

[@AlbertAnguela]

check Dolores Catherino's channel on microtonal music DOLOMUSE

[@BenLevin]

I just did, thanks for turning me onto her work, it's really nice!

[@AlbertAnguela]

you are welcome

[@pausebeforeviewtube]

It sounds like the WGBH slogo. And the pattern actually reminds me somewhat of the logo.

[@RobertMilesAI]

First example kind of sounds like something Cyriak would make

[@aakashchakrabarty4262]

Can anyone please tell me how did he made that midi microtonal midi ?🤔💭

[@ignacioalvarezcorona89]

"it's like a terrible sponge bath" my sides are gone

[@chiefindisguise]

Fascinating

[@TheAngelofThrash]

Sick idea man, loved the sounds. What program did you use to make your midi controller do that? Thanks

[@TheAngelofThrash]

Aha I probably should've finished the vid before commenting, bu yeah. Still great job

[@BenLevin]

No worries! Thanks for watching. It was Keyscape just in case someone else has the same question.

[@ricinaddict]

"its like a terrible spongebath" ill have to use that analogy more often

[@danielgonzalezjr8350]

2:00 Ben experiments with the Apple boot chime

[@elikopokopo6443]

זה כלכך מגניב , אין עליך יא מלך!

[@BenLevin]

תודה!

[@nihil1]

That's getting more musical than I expected...

[@BenLevin]

It's pretty great stuff, I've had so much fun playing with it!

[@reesesapphire267]

What DAW do you use? I don't think I've seen that before!

[@BenLevin]

That's Reaper, but I use an old skin because I'm used to it that way. It's called 3.0 or something.

[@kdt85]

Have you been watching Tolgahan Çoğulu too? 🙂

[@josejoaquinasensio9276]

Really inspiring

[@BenLevin]

Glad to hear that!

[@pedrofreire6169]

do you still use the MS2000?

[@illsthaprophet]

That last bit would make an amazing Emo-revival/post-emo song

[@NotAStranger2440]

Sounds like my grandmas piano that hasn’t been tuned since the Stone Age

[@Evangelionism]

@8:55 "Aahh, bummer." Lmaoooooo

[@TheSquareOnes]

I kept turning my head sideways at the beginning to level yours out because it just felt right. Very cool music too I guess, always love to see more experiments with microtonality. Do you have any finished songs using quarter tones or other weird intervals?

[@TheSquareOnes]

Yay! Can't wait to hear it.

[@DrCanary]

this video got me subscribed

[@divepeace1]

This is amazing man!!

[@BenLevin]

Thank you!

[@Typical.Anomaly]

To me, resolving to a tritone actually sounds consonant when using quarter steps! The only way I can employ them right now is on guitar using 1/4 bends. Using '*' as notation of a 1/4 bend up, an example using dyads would be: D F* / D F / D G# At that point, going to a D major dyad (D F#) sounds like it's "superconsonant", for lack of a better term.