How Brands Manipulate You To Be Loyal

[@BACKLIGHT]

As a kid that went through highschool with an Android phone, I can confirm that being excluded from group chats is an extremely common occurrence. I can remember half a dozen times off the top of my head where I was told I couldn't join my class' group chat (where my classmates were discussing pertinent info about midterms/finals that I desperately needed) because it would make the experience more annoying for everyone involved. An interesting note about green bubbles is that the shade of light green used for them actually breaks Apple's own rules on contrast for apps in the App Store because it is so similar in lightness/luminosity to the white text used in iOS. Just thinking about the problem infuriates me because I know my experience with green bubbles is not uncommon and there have likely been tens of millions of instances where kids have been excluded from social circles simply because they use a different mobile operating system

[@andresciahooten9598]

That’s because your classmates thought that they were better than you because you didn’t have an iPhone. And they did. I mean, I definitely know people who don’t like iPhones and I don’t judge them for it. To me, it’s all about what you prefer. Or what you can afford

[@andresciahooten9598]

That’s because your classmates thought that they were better than you because you didn’t have an iPhone. And they did. I mean, I definitely know people who don’t like iPhones and I don’t judge them for it. To me, it’s all about what you prefer. Or what you can afford

[@reepicheep948]

@@andresciahooten9598 I feel like this is a rather pessimistic and restrictive perspective to the issue mentioned, which kinda adds to issues of binary or simply restrictive ideologies. Generalizations and stereotyping have always just irrationally annoyed me so maybe it’s just the way I think, but would be more reasonable to assume that they simply had stigmas associated with android phones or non-Apple phones, that were either ‘forced’ upon them from the few extremists who actually think their better than others for having a different phone, or the just see them as this unfamiliar ‘thing’ that they don’t want to have to be accustomed towards. I kinda just felt like practicing my more structured written ‘arguments’ in a informal way so you can kinda just ignore this if you want. Just an opinion of mine that I had.

[@Quimmoo]

what the actual fuck? This is so fucked up, on so many levels, it's pissing me off. Those people can't stand a little inconvenience that much, that they are willingly exclude others from a fucking discussion about the exams and shit? That's fucking disgusting.

[@sykoteddy]

I guess we can be a little bit happy about the "fact" that most people who uses a Android phone instead of an Iphone is a bit mentally stronger and therefor handles hardships better in the end. Oh boy, I've done it now...

[@Shadowbait]

I think I'm about as brand-unloyal as they come. I've switched back and forth between iOS and Android repeatedly, switched from mostly Windows to mostly Mac, etc. But it's incredibly frustrating that ALL the big companies have done at least one evil thing that ought to be unforgivable, yet it's hard to get by without giving your money to at least one of them.

[@Joethedrummer]

Welcome to civilisation.

[@shayneoneill1506]

Its kinda why I sometimes my buddy who a few years back brought a property out in the forest and spends his time fucking about with fishing or doing shit in the forest seems to have the right idea. Oh I do miss goofing off with him online, but every time i go out there to visit I totally get it. Its a happy place, and far far away from the brands and tribes, and capitalist grind of the modern world. Its like, your *IN* nature, and theres a part of you that suddenly feels at peace like deep in yr bones your meant to be out in the natural world instead of inside the urban rat-race & internet, and no fuckin' compromises with brand loyalty.

[@em_the_bee]

Well, if you want to vote with your wallet for morality, and there's no one to vote for... How about some free and open-source software, kid?

[@ZOOTSUITBEATNICK1]

Buy used.

[@Shadowbait]

@@em_the_bee I do use a lot of FOSS, but it's hard to get by in modern society without a smartphone running either iOS or Android. I also can't use Linux exclusively for the work I do.

[@bananaghost427]

Hey Mr Benn...I really enjoy your music gear videos, but these "Rabbit Hole" videos are special. This one, the one about how loud a sound can be, and especially the one about how different types of animals experience the world are some of my favorite content i've seen on the KZbins. Please keep up the good work, and thank you!

[@Alkatross]

I love a deep dive!

[@RanHarasaki]

Seconded. I don't know how I found this channel but I'm glad I did.

[@billycollins6005]

Agreed! These rabbit hole videos are some of the best content I've seen on KZbin. Benn is such an incredible teacher and storyteller.

[@tentativeentertainment3363]

i agree, love your work Benn

[@ronnetgrazer362]

Benn Jordan and Alex Ball could do videos about anything and get buried in likes, such good writing, great presentation.

[@jcoverpass]

I’d like to say that your deviations from Music Production Specific videos is the top reason that I am a fan of your YT channel. It is refreshing to see a brilliant mind positing good thought experiments. You and Ken Marshall have to be the best of the best Producers that prove time and time again that Greed isn’t on the table when one clicks on the menu and starts a video. Thanks and I know that I am and have been so very toxic over the years. I’m working on that.

[@JureJerebic]

This

[@colinrussell2017]

For sure! Benn and Hiwatt are doing videos because they want to get a message out that they feel is important and can actually help people and maybe get a discussion going. They're not doing it for clicks!

[@rowanzone]

unlike all of you im loyal to the grind

[@C.S.Argudo]

You right

[@sommelierofstench]

gottem

[@drowsyspook3455]

Lol

[@zackcolbourne6921]

The grind sucks. The hustle has a much smoother UI.

[@sullyschwartz2365]

@@zackcolbourne6921 Hustle has a better UI, but it suffers from the same player retention issues the Grind faces, along with both having the exact same end game that most find unsatisfactory.

[@elijahle7936]

On the apple vs android messaging, for school, is usually suggest a third party app. More so for the increased functionality, but also to eliminate this prejudice.

[@oscarguzman3017]

I don't think I would've particularly minded getting an apple phone, but I recently got a fold, and I'm not sure I could go back. Reading manga on the big screen is a dream. Honestly, it's not a very good feature if you aren't a reader tbh. I don't really see a use case if you don't read. But there's a secret feature on these things that they don't advertise. There are no ads on the official KZbin app. It's unreal.

[@RanHarasaki]

Man, for an audio guy, you sure release some fascinatingly deep and impactful videos. Please keep deep-diving into the things that matter. This video in particular--oddly--helped me cope with some extremely difficult social trauma that's been haunting me for the past 6 years. Thank you.

[@ctrlectrld]

It needs to be said that the bubble thingy only happens in the US. It would be interesting to understand why. And no, it's not related to market share, in Japan it doesn't happen.

[@NickLavers-ys1tf]

Interesting, happens in Australia

[@ctrlectrld]

@@NickLavers-ys1tf In Australia iPhone has more or less the same market share it has in the UK, and as far as I know, in UK it doesn't happen.

[@hrlarson]

It happens in Sweden. Or rather you need to have iMessage turned on not to have your group chat act crazy and unpredictable. Like letting some messages through but not others, excluding some in the group chat at certain points until nobody knows who got messages and who is answering what. Turn on iMessage and all problems go away.

[@ctrlectrld]

@@hrlarson Technicalities and compatibility issues aside, do you mean that in Sweden kids with Android phones get bullied by their iPhone friends, and more in general, people gets discriminated according to the phone they use?

[@jawsh1971]

@@ctrlectrld It definitely happens in the UK. It’s how I can text with my Brit friends for free rather than paying SMS charges. I realize there are chat alternatives, but none of us feel like switching over.

[@1chrisanderson]

When I sense a brand (or individual) is using these manipulation tactics my alarm bells immediately ring, it's been like this since i was a kid. People constantly give me crap for using Denon instead of Pioneer, having an Android, building my own PCs, whatever. I will ALWAYS choose the option that supports more open integrations and customization, whatever can help stimulate my creativity in new ways. **EDIT** Because some of you don't seem to understand my mindset and are assuming i'm part of the problem- I don't give a shit about the brand name or public perception - People may give me a hard time for using something they see as non-standard, but I'll happily use whatever I find if it fits my use case and affords me the flexibility, durability, and price point i'm after. In the Android/iPhone example can you offer a solid 3rd option? I don't know of one... So then would it make you feel better if i covered all the logos on my gear with black tape, de-badged my entire car and wore only plain white T shirts? Or would you prefer that I build my own devices and networks from scratch instead of using anything good enough to have reached the mainstream... **EDIT** If brand creates artificial technical limits in their products in order to wall off competitors or people outside their platform, they don't get my money. Simple as that. This world needs unity and understanding, these tactics of customer lock-in and political tribalism are symptoms of a greater evil

[@3nertia]

Good to know that I am not alone and that there are other "contrarians" out here! :D

[@Alkatross]

My heart broke for the kids who get excluded because of the green bubble. Not cool. I'll never buy an iPhone. NEVER!!!! Behringer is cool tho.

[@peen2804]

but you’re still using products from companies that want you to say everything you just said. You’re still using brands and purchasing decisions to define a part of your identity. So instead of being the “apple sheep” you’re taking the “well I use THESE brands not the POPULAR or FANCY brands chyeah dats rite bro” route as if there’s any difference between the two. The entire video was about this exact thing lmao. You could have left it at “customization tends to influence my purchasing decisions” instead of putting a brand-tinted angle on it. Again, the exact thing this video was about lmao. I guarantee “people constantly giving me crap about using denon instead of pioneer” actually means “my friend made fun of me one time in jest because they like pioneer and I took it personally” who tf are these people that are supposedly giving you constant shit about using denon products 😂 like when a 13 year old receives mild criticism from 1 person then goes on about how everyone hates them and they can’t do anything right. PC building is the most mainstream it’s ever been and same with android. are all of your friends grandmas or something tf is going on who are these people in your life 😂 Lastly, walled gardens have benefits and drawbacks, just as open or lightly curated platforms have their benefits and drawbacks. More a system of trade offs than some evil conspiracy. And no, you’re not making the world a better place by giving Google and Microsoft your money over Apple like is that a joke or do you actually believe that? You are the exact person this video was made for and it seems it went entirely over your head. Even the example you give are of companies that use the exact tactics you’re talking about. Not long before watching this I saw an ad for android doing the whole “we r so way more open than apple n ya it’s so good n so open chyeah if u use android then ur rly smart u kno wats up unlike thos apple sheep dat do not kno wats up like u do”. Kinda like what Apple and every other company does by attempting to make consumers feel superior to other humans for their purchasing decisions. But they make the platform you prefer so obviously it’s fine when they do it. Things could get messy with cognitive dissonance and all that best just not think about it if it doesn’t fit your “us vs them” narrative. Almost like the media and these companies profit from that mentality or something. Huh weird. Really stickin it to the man arentcha

[@3nertia]

@@peen2804 There aren't really any "good" options out there - it's a "the lesser of two evils" sort of situation heh

[@YOLOnline]

Same here, haven't had too many since I use them for as long as I can but when shopping for a new phone I look at specs and functions I'd want it to have and for how much they sell regardless of brand. Even with the same phone I've been reverting some software updates because the new ones does something that I didn't want or adds unnecessary stuff while breaking or disrupting stuff that did. The biggest issue in that is windows for now. If all the software and things I want to do would be supported on open source stuff like Linux distros I'd switch to that in a heartbeat. Just buy products because they suit your needs instead of them having a particular name on them. And brands need to accept that and be open to interchangeable ecosystems and cooperation (looking at you apple as the examples in this video show as well)

[@AlanW]

What's interesting about the green bubble thing, it's not THEIR messages that are green, the other person's messages are always gray, it's YOUR messages that are green.

[@BennJordan]

Yeah, I feel like my sentence there could have been structured a bit better. :)

[@2.7petabytes]

Edward Bernays studied this for decades! He even worked with DARPA to try and figure out how to market to the hippies in the 60’s, hence the VW bug with a surfboard on the top, etc. There’s a great set of videos you can watch on KZbin called The Century of Self. It’s a real eye opener! Edward was the nephew of Sigmund Freud. Great video by the way Benn!

[@aaronrosenthal5310]

A corporation will never love you the way that you love them...

[@JaguarPanda]

They love your wallet tho

[@donoru]

Super excited for this! You’re the perfect person to make a video about this because the brand loyalty associated with music manufacturers is insane.

[@redeemer6828]

"Brands and political parties will never care about you. Other humans will" - i think i need this be put in frame or something. Thank you very much Benn for such deep exploration of the topic and debunking some of human's "buit-in" features that being exploited so hard

[@monsirto]

The Apple example is excellent. Key takeaways: Read reviews and buy the best product for the job. If "your brand" doesn't play nicely with other gear, drop 'em and be nice!

[@General_Ictus]

Dear college students: if a college or university tells you that you have to buy a certain laptop for their program, ask them why and don't fall for their crap. They'll usually have a computer lab with any software you would ever need for any project. Penn State tried that shit, too... so stupid.

[@AndrewSouthworth]

Goes both ways too. I mostly uses Macs and in college for engineering basically ALL engineering software is Windows only. However I didn't want to (and couldn't afford) to get a second computer, so I used a combination of Parallels on my Mac and the computer lab computers. Unfortunately as far as I know there isn't a convenient way to do the opposite and run Mac OSX on a Windows machine. But it really shouldn't ever be an issue, almost no commonly used software is Mac only.

[@m4t7eo]

@@AndrewSouthworth I could see this as a problem for a class that uses Final Cut or Logic, but a VM can work for macOS too

[@AuroraAce.]

the software too is also trying to get you locked into their ecosystem if you learn to do everything on Photoshop in school you are much more likely to continue to use Photoshop rather than go through the hassle of learning a new program

[@General_Ictus]

@@m4t7eo from what I can tell from taking audio production classes, we would use whatever the studio had in class (protools or logic) but for projects we were allowed to use any DAW. If you didn't have one at home though, yeah you were stuck signing out a time for studio B or C and using logic or protools. At least protools is cross platform...

[@seamon9732]

@@AndrewSouthworth Shirley you're joking. There's even a term for PCs running Mac OS. HACKINTOSH.

[@tornghost]

I love how ancient tribal Benn was in sepia, cause you know, 12000 years ago there was no colour video!

[@KristianWontroba]

My dad worked in a corporate job for Pepsi while my paternal grandfather worked for Coke when I was a kid in the 80s. In that environment, I come realize the bullshit that is brand loyalty. Great stuff!

[@freddykuno]

Benn, I've been a fan of your music ever since I heard "I think in a minute or so I'll explode" when I was ... 13 or something, I didn't even know what to make of it, a song less than a minute long... lol. Finding out 15 years later that you're making this high quality social commentary content on YT was like the best comeback any artist could ever make in my opinion. It's like you transcended your mission and once again bring amazing experiences into my life, of whole another type this time. Thank you. That being said, a take on Naomi Klein's "No Logo" would have been an excellent addition to this video. Keep up the good work.

[@nickmagrick7702]

9:01 walmart might have better prices, but that comes at the cost of shipping jobs over seas and ruining our economy while propping up slave labor through sweat shops from out of the country where corporations can escape those laws. So yeah, I guess they have better prices up front, but this damages the economy in the long run and makes everything more expensive, resulting in our recession that we are now currently enjoying because of these exact same practices. Sorry, I couldn't not say something to that "Wal'Mart has better prices than Target" bullsht. As if the only reason people shopped at one vs the other was brand loyalty alone. You can't make your point if you don't accept the nuance, or pick a scenario that doesn't have one. Like one brand of salsa over another, that would be way more sensible.

[@BennJordan]

Thank you for providing an interactive syllabus for my video. 🙂

[@nickmagrick7702]

3:37 saying we've outgrown tribalism is laughable. Have you not been paying attention to the past 7 years? Let me ask you this, when was the last time you saw a republican and democrat talking to each other after they knew their respective political affiliations? Outgrown tribalism, ha!. We'd like to think we're better than our stupid and petty ancestors. Because ofc IIIMMM not stupid and petty, am brilliant, the best, and most caring compassionate person. Not like those stupid and petty Republicans or ANTIFA, which is why we need to jail them or kill them before they literally murder us through genocide

[@Seriouslycantplayguitar]

"again, not to be racist" got my funnies

[@BrianWilliamsTheEngineer]

Always enjoy your videos, but this time all I can think is, "his dog is not on a leash!"

[@chateautemp]

Hmm I wonder what other 'brands' you might be talking about here.. ;)

[@erineopenaloza8311]

Good video

[@johnobrien8773]

These are like section or office hours with the awesome TA we all looked forward to.

[@chrisw1462]

Awesome video.. I knew a lot of those particulars, but never put them together like that. Keep up the great work, Benn!

[@BCThunderthud]

I was a Mac guy before Jobs came back, and obviously their product strategy was a mess back then, but they've just piled up the things that got on my nerves ever since. I have a lot of nostalgia for the OS9 days, and I'm one of the lunatics still using an iPod Classic, I even have a couple iPads and the last iPod Touch. I'm not opposed to buying from them but every decision they make, from GUI design, to user experience, to business practices and pricing models, is wildly different from what I'd choose. I would kind of like to check out Logic, not worth rebuilding the rest of my software library though.

[@karenwang313]

It depends on the use case for the most part, macs generally can't be beat when it comes to coding for example while they're pretty awful for gaming.

[@BCThunderthud]

@@karenwang313 Oh yeah, for sure. As soon as they adopted a *nix system there was a huge adoption. And that makes tons of sense, if I understood OSX on a deeper level I might love it too. My mom is one of those folks who knew Unix way better than Windows and she's been very happy with modern Macs.

[@streck0486]

Very informative, Benn. Thanks! Could have used some of this information in a recent conservation with an Apple fan boy friend of mine.

[@happyjessus]

I think it's about time you start a podcast if you haven't already!

[@nottieru]

That video just made me think very hard-) Thank you! Somebody here is going to consider switching to Reaper...

[@hyperboy820]

Benn, I wanna be like you when I grow up.

[@Em4gdn1m]

9:35 Apple? Edit: Yup

[@yvesbajulaz]

And its amazing that we still refer to microsoft and bill gates as the ultimate villain… apple has way surpassed them… in a much more elaborate way… truly scary…

[@Em4gdn1m]

I didn't know you were also a psychologist. Super interesting video.

[@lokiloki5804]

Damn right, fuck apple

[@Scoots1994]

I had a person in my band tell me I needed to get rid of my Fulltone pedals because Mike Fuller is a "monster" ... the social pressures based on what spreads, reasonably or not, on social media is also a big part of the manipulation.

[@Scoots1994]

What surprises me is how many people are CERTAIN that they are not susceptible to manipulation by marketing people.

[@georgeonearth]

I definitely am not - sent from my iPhone

[@OlOleander]

You are not immune to propaganda, especially if you think you are not immune to propaganda.

[@Scoots1994]

My kids realized iPhone's suck and switched their friend groups to Discord.

[@chikoavena3407]

I'd really like to see you talk about linux more. Maybe try to do music there?

[@apparently_sonam]

I used to believe In the power of consumer, but not buying a thing that benefits you seems silly to er on being right over being happy. (Which I personally thought about) Either way the world is what is and that behaviour can be found most places sadly in these times.

[@mcguillotine]

Apple offered to open iMessage up to Google, they refused to give up control of notification servers for it then made RCS as a tempter tantrum. Google is the reason we don't have iMessage on all platforms and which google chat team is running this, one of the 8 systems they have? Google and Apple are not saviours by any means.

[@BennJordan]

Source? This sounds like revisionist tech history. 😅 Besides, nobody is claiming that Google is a savior, but RCS is an open source standard adopted by every major carrier in North America. iMessage requires Apple's servers.

[@talldarkstrangerpr]

Standing ovation for this video.

[@rrrobart9]

Great stuff dude! How about an in depth look at GAS? Or something about FOMO? Or something about the compulsion to “share” on social media? I’m always thinking about the psychological underpinnings of these phenomena but let’s face it; you are VERY good at this. I’d love to see what you come up with.

[@RedMeansRecording]

Really great video

[@kassemir]

I felt like I knew about the green bubble thing, but I had no idea it was basically a scheme to target impressionable young people, who are extremely sensible to peer pressure in that way. Honestly a little bit shocking they were able to get away with that, without any sanctions or anything.

[@ssssssssssss885]

Excellent exposé

[@larrbaII]

To answer that question at 6:00. You gave me $200.00 ? I'd get the hell out of that place and fast.. OH ok, i'll put $5.00 on #32,win or lose im out of there and even faster and about that money you gave me (now $195.00) Go see my landlord if you want it back. Good luck :)

[@Gallanitte]

Yet another well researched, prepared and presented video (should almost be called a documentary). Thank you. You have become a journalist on top of being an artist because of the quality of those exposés. The very first one that impressed me was about why there weren’t more women in the music industry. To think that this great content can be found on KZbin amazes me. I’d love to hear your thoughts on a common ailment among musicians: Gear Acquisiton Syndrome. People think it’s a funny way to describe buying more stuff, but there are psychological reasons for not knowing when it’s enough. You’d find a witty way to explain an unfomfortable truth.

[@rdoursenaud]

GAS is a serious issue. I fall for it all the time.

[@Gallanitte]

@@rdoursenaud Pretty sure advertisers know that it's real.

[@rdoursenaud]

@@Gallanitte Unfortunately for them my GAS is mostly on the used market ;)

[@rustyroy5385]

I think the majority of people don't have any sense of brand loyalty. It's just that those who do are likely to be vocal about it.

[@denovaire]

Great content here!! Bravo!

[@N.SLASH.A]

Was I the only one who couldn’t decide if the Apple logo was gonna pop up, or the Avid one?!

[@GearStuffandThings]

Thank you for this!

[@denarisnoctem4562]

This video reminds me of the movie Branded (2012).

[@pyanek]

Benn, I don't know how possible it is but it would be incredible if you made a whole video dedicated to what you said at the end about political parties ('they invent non-issues to divide us and invent third-party antagonists to unite us'). I feel this is something that the world needs to know about, with examples, in-depth proof of how they work, how they manipulate, and more on our cognitive biases. I really believe enlightenment over this has the potential to change the course of humanity...

[@gatorgoforth3097]

BBC has a four part documentary called The Century Of Self which examines all this and more. It’s on KZbin!

[@pyanek]

@@gatorgoforth3097 well really I meant a Benn Jordan 2022 version of it hehe but from my perspective The Century Of Self has an agenda and a clear narrative. It actually says that governments were "forced" to manipulate people in order to prevent them from enacting their violent natural urges, so not only it installs a vision of mankind that is purely subjective and very one-dimensional, but it implied they act in our benefit, that they had our best interest at heart. I haven't watched it all though. It's weird as well how it shows mostly footage from way before the making of the documentary. It's almost as if it's saying it's a historic thing that no longer exists. Maybe I'm just reading too much into it though. I still think it says some interesting stuff!

[@gatorgoforth3097]

​@@pyanek Please watch the whole thing. There is also a follow up documentary that focuses solely on governments.

[@daryx.langdale]

I should recommend reading Jonothan Haidt's The Righteous Mind. He's an evolutionary psychologist, and this book covers in very easy to read and fascinating detail how we develop a sense of right and wrong and how our emotional reasoning really works. There's a whole portion of the book dedicated to the emotional reasoning and voting behaviors of progressives vs conservatives. Much of what Benn covers in this video is discussed in that book.

[@CoffinNachtmahr]

I became an elektron fanboy cause cenk and ess are so personable and the digitone constantly brings me joy lol

[@CoffinNachtmahr]

Now neither of them work there and I just support them as separate entities

[@KristofferLislegaard]

Well as long as the videos are as high quality as this one I guess I am "brand loyal" to this channel.

[@aplanebagel]

if only we could all get together and fight capitalism :)

[@lucacycles8623]

Nice one Benn, that was really interesting. I recently ditched the smart phone altogether and have felt a lot of benefits! I think maybe this is easier as a relatively socially settled 37 year old though

[@tungtobak]

Yeah I quit smartphones years ago. I do not need constant distraction and I was always angry when I had one.

[@TweeklyLOVER]

Another great video! You seem to do a lot of reseach for these videos and you mentioned several papers. It would be great if you could leave a citation table so one can look up the resources themselfs with more ease. Would be much appreciated.

[@sponsoredmessage201]

Your main conclusion seemed to be "we'll be happier if we don't let brands divide us". You mentioned happiness before in the video, in the Walmart/Target example, where making choices that align with my (manipulated) identity would make me happier. So should we also take this as a lession that depending on the cost, it might be worth to NOT question your loyalties?

[@SantiagoGT15]

It amazes me how this only happens to the extremes in the US, why does everyone do aggressively defend X over Y and campaign so that Y goes instead of X, I love making music and I certainly don’t care what political alignments the maker of my instrument has

[@kelvint03]

hey Benn, you've said 'brands don't care, only humans care', but what if the 'brand' is an artist, a musician, or anyone you look up to?

[@unclemick-synths]

I am always bemused by the credulous people who don't believe corporations would spend money on manipulation. True, they don't spend money on it, they INVEST in it!

[@Appleloucious]

One Love! Always forward, never ever backward!! ☀️☀️☀️ 💚💛❤️ 🙏🏿🙏🙏🏼

[@nickjohnson398]

Man growing up the “green” texts legitimately were a social leprosy. With how important group chats were and still are to kids social groups you inconvenienced every iPhone user involved. I remember legitimately using apps like groupme for group chats with android users. I always assumed this was intentional by Apple but I never knew how quickly it could be remedied.

[@WillyJunior]

Lucky that everyone uses WhatsApp now...

[@frostydei5012]

That's interesting. The class element is fascinating, too. For instance, my highschool was extremely poor and populated through poor neighborhoods. Only two students drove a car, and even the handful of "rich" kids were just middle class. Kids literally got their asses kicked for the blue bubble. It indicated that your phone was expensive, which made you an ideal target for robbery. Also, there is more class consciousness and sorting along wealth lines in the disadvantaged caste. You might get knocked out and wake up with a smashed iphone, too. If the attacker wanted to send you the message that conspicuous wealth was Your transgression and they aren't a thief.

[@aoterou]

as an iPhone user I agree, Android users are like lepers (I kow, I know, I missed the point of the video, but still...)

[@brmbkl]

it would be intersting to hear who decided these ostracizing distinction in the UI as a graphic designer, I can't imagine an engineer or designer came up with that

[@LRM12o8]

You're not the one inconveniencing apple users, apple is! Unfortunately, apple users don't understand that. After all, they wouldn't be apple users in the first place if they understood just how many unnecessary inconveniences apple puts in their products only for apple's own benefit! 💁

[@ThatBoogieman]

i haven't finished yet but i had to pause and comment that the ncaa free bet study is fundamentally flawed as a significant portion of fans would find betting against their team as an ethical violation as a fan; money is not the motivating factor here. perhaps that was controlled for in some way but that just immediately struck me as an obvious major flaw. not to discredit the overconfidence conclusion either, i just think they stumbled on to the right answer for their question or confirmation of other research with a poorly designed test.

[@MarkusOsanger]

I mean it kinda doesn't need to be mentioned that the video is fantastic but I actually need that shirt! Where can I buy that? :D

[@theelectronicrat]

I wasn't expecting this one - nice!

[@K0r0n1s]

It is really impressive that tools can make tools out of us in the long run if we're not careful. Thanks for educating me on this front thus giving me ways to be more vigilant :-)

[@guitboxgeek]

I've never understood brand loyalty. But, I've also never understood most humans. Great video, Benn. Wonder why this doesn't have more views? 🤔

[@myhandlehasbeenmishandled]

Same here. I got Android because iPhone was too expensive. Eventually I was invested with apps that I had and there were no better options. Getting an iPhone even if I was willing to pay would be pain in the ass. Another example, I used to play games on Windows a lot. But as new hardware got more expensive and I lost interest in gaming I switched to what was free. I switched to Linux. Not because of "brand", they have none really. Not because some political ideology. But because I could reuse my old PC and didn't have to get more memory, pay for OS, or new graphic card. By that point everything I did on my computer I was able to do on Linux.

[@TunaIRL]

This is like saying you don't understand why monogamous relationships exist. What's the benefit in sticking with one person right? Instead of having the option to choose whichever whenever it best fits you? Surely that's the best option always?

[@guitboxgeek]

@@TunaIRL Perhaps I should've worded it differently; I didn't intend that I don't understand what it is or how it occurs, but that I don't understand why anyone would put loyalty to corporate brands over common sense. I'd say the best option is having options in the first place 😁 But in answer to your point, I don't follow how monogamy in Mammalia has anything to do with corporate brands. If you like what you like, fine. If, however, you like a brand because it's 'cool' or worse, because it's 'what everyone else likes' then I think you're easily manipulated at best. And, if you're the type of person to attack others for their lack of loyalty, then you're a part of the larger problem in late-stage capitalism societies. I've had too much caffeine today, sorry!

[@TunaIRL]

@@guitboxgeek "common sense" is just your just your way of saying what your preferences are, right? That's all that means. Unless you know of a definition of what common sense means that we've agreed on. Which I don't think we have. What I see happen usually, is quite the opposite. People who are by their word "brand agnostic" attacking others for liking a brand. "Those people are stupid." "They lack common sense". In reality, even these people make choices that fit them for reasons they find logical and valid. You just, as you said, might not understand those reasons. A common place this is shown is Windows vs Linux. A lot of Linux users show disapproval for people who use Windows simply because they think "they don't know any better" and are as such inferior. The Linux people then use Linux because it shows their "brand agnostia" of choosing an alternative that's clearly objectively better for them, despite it being a niche option. These people miss the fact that most people choose windows because it's the best option for them. Not because they think it's "cool" or because "everyone uses it". I think it's incredibly reductive to think of choices people make as such. The point of the example was the fact that it is a genuine thing a polyamorous (or polygamous?) person could say. THEY don't see the benefits of a monogamous relationship because they value different aspects in a relationship. Monogamous people obviously answer with the fact that to them it's important to have a deep relationship with a single person, which creates different types of dynamics in a relationship. Different responsibilities and different challenges. Monogamous people on the other hand might see the other side as crazy as their relationship completely lacks the things they value. This is, essentially what most people do when they talk about either side, even in the brand discussion here.

[@guitboxgeek]

@TunaIRL you said, '"common sense" is just your just your way of saying what your preferences are, right?" No, it's not what I meant and it's not what the term means. Common sense has to do with 'sound judgement'. I don't attack folks who are loyal to a brand, I said I do not understand why they are loyal to a brand when there are options available, nor do I understand what the benefit is to them for their loyalty. Using your example of Windows vs Linux: Personally, I see value in both and decide to use whichever I need for the job at hand - not because I have some personal acrimony towards one or the other. They're both tools for achieving an outcome and neither are worth "defending" because of who sells/makes them. People's preferences can be great reasons for them to choose one over the other, but this video is about blindly adhering to a brand even to their own detriment. I might suggest you re-watch the video. Specifically what Benn says in the 'Letz b frens' section: "Brand loyalty is a one way street". I'm not sure why you keep relating this subject to polygamy. The video's subject is specifically about people being loyal to something that doesn't care about you; it (the corporation profiting from brand loyalty) cares about profit and ensuring you continue to consume their product.

[@bornach]

"curious what brands will be buying adspace on this particular video" For me in the UK, they were Warcraft, LG, Nicorette, PayPal, Samsung Galaxy

[@zbnmth]

here in the NL, they were a new hr-agency, and Samsung. You get a lot of ads!

[@triplestandart7613]

Benn...I'm speechless. Your music has emotionally touched me in my early youth and now years later every single one of your videos thoroughly amazes me. What you say are some of the most level-headed and measured arguments I've heard not to forget well researched. Thank you for working on making the world a better place!

[@PXAbstraction]

When it comes to marketers, Bill Hicks said it best. I've long said that Apple markets itself first not on quality or functionality, but on fashion. And what do you know...

[@bdbeats7209]

Brilliant break down. It's crazy all the psychological tricks that go into marketing and brand recognition/loyalty

[@deepblueday]

Another fantastic video essay, Benn! I'm now subscribed and Patreon supporting! Hey, wait...you're making me into a brand-loyal Benn Jordan fanboy!

[@makamqore]

Re computers and portable music-players, I've been mostly stuck in Apple ecosystem products since 1998 (though avoided getting an iphone until earlier this year), and... well, this video *is* spot on. You might enjoy Thorstein Veblen's books Benn, he coined the term of "conspicuous consumption" back in 1899 and covers some of the early history of how buying shit = social identity.

[@jamesbarels469]

If I remember correctly the book "The Theory Of The Leisure Class" is not a large tome, and I thought Thorstein Veblen made his points fairly clearly.

[@jamespingel8730]

Funny, as Benn was talking about an Iphone requiring a wait in a long line and 30% more money than the competition so of course people think it's better, I was thinking to myself "that sounds a lot like a Veblen good". For those not in the know, "veblen goods" are products that act counter-intuitively to the law of supply and demand. Normally, a raising the price of something decreases demand because people don't want to pay more for the same thing. For a veblen good, however, raising the price actually increases demand, usually because it's a luxury good and part of the appeal of luxury goods is being difficult to obtain, thus being a quick and often conspicuous indicator of your status if you can obtain one. Think Rolex, Hermes, Ferrari, etc.

[@makamqore]

@@jamespingel8730 yup! and hey, how excited that we get to pay more for fewer ports on that laptop! and pay more to remove the power button and headphone jack! and get to keep boxes full of legacy apple product adapters! Chin up, will all that money we spent we get to be part of an elite squad of (not really) like-minded consumerists! And if you're really savvy, you can weaponize this illusory superiority over consumer of the "other" product to punch down on those poor sods who bought em!

[@samcarswell9890]

Speaking of books, I really enjoyed yours (Digital Tradition) @@makamqore ! Read it for a class a few years back and it contributed to a real change in the way I think about music. Also a really big fan of the papers you've published recently, especially the one re: the preamp components. Thanks for all the words :)

[@ixian_technocrat]

@@jamespingel8730 I actually got to experience a Veblen "establishment". A bar in my Uni campus was not that popular, even though the food and drinks were good in quality and cheap. But then, a new proprietor bought it and upped the prices by a lot, and suddenly it became the most well known bar in the area, because it attracted all the snot-nosed rich-daddy kids.

[@CtrlSaltDelete]

Fantastic video! I wish more people were aware of how no-one is immune to this stuff and how it is unfortunately deeply rooted in our evolutionary past. I can't imagine a better resource for teaching people just that without appearing condescending or aggressive :)

[@justincaldwell2527]

I have only watched a few of your videos on my Mac. They kind of remind me of dinner with my dad. He talked a lot too. I especially like that I can use the KZbin platform to tune in to your ideas, thought and feelings. I love looking at all the gear you have glowing and blinking in the back ground just out of focus enough to not see a brand name. I feel comfortable watching you because your hair style, tattoos and irony remind me of a lot of other people who have social media platforms. Please don't stop. We need you.

[@kaunas888]

To me brands are there to provide me with the best product at the best price. I have no real brand loyalty, and if a previously good brand starts to fail me, I will go elsewhere. So, I find it odd the way many become so emotional and irrational in trying to defend their favorite brand's loyalty even if it is overpriced...and often not even that good.

[@jayspeidell]

The green/blue bubble thing is one of the most disturbing marketing campaigns I've seen. They know it's encouraging bullying and don't do anything because that's the point.

[@Ed-davies]

This is absolutely the best video you have done, as a self confessed Apple fan I agree with everything you’ve said here!

[@davemakesnoises]

Shopify bought adspace when you first mentioned your interest in who is buying adspace on this one. Keep you posted on the rest

[@davemakesnoises]

Molekule Air filters

[@JureJerebic]

Man the effort you put into this video...The sub count must go up, so a lot more people can appreciate this as well as we do!

[@crifox16]

gonna chime in with many other comments, your videos outside the topic of plain old gear vids are skyrocketing you to the top of my favorite creators list, especially your recent output is just fuckin flawless man. nobody else i know can present both cutting edge and controversial topics in such a clear, objective, no-bullshit and at times hilarious way. you really deserve the title of vsauce of music, really considering joining your patreon with your recent output

[@Aksuloid]

Coming from europe, where iPhones are less prevalent (I mean, obviously they are popular but not nearly as much as the states) and being an android user, I was aware of the green bubble on a surface level, but wasn't aware of the artificial limitations they place on group chats and mesaging overall. Goddamn. Apple do be scummy. No wonder third party messaging applications have exploded in popularity.

[@Stormsurf001]

Best ever! (and I said that about the 440 tuning video too). It just keep getting better (or maybe I'm just buying more into the Benn Jordan brand). Keep up the great work!

[@jasonmoyer]

I stopped caring about Apple when Jobs intentionally crippled the IIgs. Woz's team developed a computer that could out-perform anything on the market, had professional graphics and sound capabilities, could be networked, was backwards compatible with a massive library of software and hardware, and cost 30% of what the Mac Plus did, and Jobs made them under-clock the CPU by 70% so that it wouldn't annihilate his Mac baby. That was the exact point where Apple stopped being an innovative company and started focusing on marketing products with intentionally limited lifespans. I still don't understand how they survived the mess that was the pre-OSX Macintoshes.

[@Yash42189]

it works because we humans hold onto identities. We're still the teenage nerds, popular girls, the bullies, the jocks, the punks, goths whatever... But now it's being a "father", being a "programmer", being a "fan of dc movies", a this and a that. Seeing yourself as some thing. And the corporations hacked into this illusion

[@VintageGearFreak]

Not only is this guy one of the best music youtubers, he's one of the best youtubers overall up there with VSauce amongst others ...

[@kaunas888]

My experience with Apple users is that they tend to be more status oriented and tend to identify with what is trendy and considered to be prestigious and part of the establishment.

[@jamesbarels469]

This sort of knowledge is what I think can help people achieve a higher level of cooperation amongst human beings, with an ability to respect each individual. As Burrough put it in his "Words Of Advice For Young People", ""Interdependence" is the keyword, "enlightened interdependence, Life in all its rich variety, take a little, leave a little" Great work and I am also reminded of Bill Hicks opinion of those involved in marketing.

[@surrealchemist]

What is annoying to me is that Android is the only alternative and then you are left with weird fragmented random versions, security holes or Google spying on you. When the Palm Pre came out I bought it on launch day and loved the hell out of that thing. It ran Linux, the software was based off web standards and it had a great look and feeling for the time and features that later became commonplace in smart phones. Googles way to combat apple was just to flood the market with a free option for manufacturers and then consumers had to take whatever they were given. So now I just hate everything at varying degrees. lol

[@Vapor-Fi]

Found my Palm Pixi the other day, charged it and it still worked. I started just browsing around on it and man I miss that UI. It was great everything was so smooth and worked the way one would think a touch screen should work.

[@damienlobb85]

Your views on Android are somewhat outdated and skewed.

[@ToyKeeper]

It's really unfortunate that the only real options most people have for phones are either Apple or Android. While I'd definitely say Android is the lesser evil there, they're both built in ways which are user-hostile. Even community firmwares like LineageOS aren't able to fix the core issues, because those issues run so deep. Like, the entire concept of basing the OS on an app store (instead of an open-source package repository like Debian) pretty much guarantees the entire ecosystem will be full of junk. I hope a better option will get popular someday, but it's going to take a lot of work which probably won't even be feasible until society as a whole has entered a more progressive era. The problems of the phone ecosystem are basically just symptoms of larger societal issues.

[@me-myself-i787]

I'd recommend trying GrapheneOS. It's Pixel-exclusive, but it's a very secure and open operating system.

[@0xszander0]

Your content is truly interesting unlike many other channels rechewing already used information. I always truly learn something watching them. Which is a rare thing on yt. Keep it going Benn, thanks for the amazing content.

[@tungtobak]

In this particular case, I am happy that I am autistic and with that immune to most of the things described in this video. Group think doesn't work when you do not have a group to identify with.

[@jlindborg1105]

This is so true! I am constantly fighting myself regarding my sometimes delusional need to buy something. Sometimes it's needed to be bought but most of the time it's related to a feeling and all the reasons for buying it is more of excuses than logical. I may not even need it in the first place! A good question to ask is "can I manage without it in any way?" and most of the time, I actually can but don't want to. And it's the "i don't want to" that is the problem. There is much more to say about this but I keep this short. Thanks!

[@d1ngd0]

Benn Jordan is the only musician I’ll listen to. Everyone else is terrible and you are too if you don’t agree with my identity. - sent from my iPhone -

[@chuckcrunch1]

lol😄

[@briandavidgregory]

This is the kind of video that makes me really enjoy your channel. Well thought out, well researched, and well presented! I'm sorry I missed this a year ago.

[@kasey42]

Religion: the ultimate in brand loyalty