How safe are these £215 motorcycle leathers? | "This back protector is a fake"

Please add to the comments if you believe that steps should be taken by online marketplaces to protect buyers from illegal kit. For updates and feedback from the companies involved, visit www.bennetts.c...
For a simple guide to what the labels in bike kit mean, visit www.bennetts.c...
For the full details of the CE standards law in the UK ad Europe, visit www.bennetts.c...
For FEMA's guide to buying motorcycle kit, visit www.femamotorc...
Everyone loves a bargain, and while some motorcycle clothing might seem pricey in your local dealer or other specialist bike kit shop, the internet is full of cheap gear that promises to protect you at a fraction of the cost.
Amazon and eBay are two marketplaces with a huge choice, while adverts fill riders’ feeds on Facebook with what appears to be top-quality gear at tempting prices.
But is it safe? We bought a set of leathers from a seller on Amazon and had them tested by an independent lab to see whether they could save you in a crash.
Quick links
00:00 Are cheap leathers any good?
03:34 CE standards and the law
04:45 What does it cost to get CE certification?
09:25 What armour should riding kit have?
14:52 Why leathers must fit properly
17:40 Why is it important to test PPE?
22:47 How we found out if these cheap leathers are safe
24:28 Lab test results
27:45 Fake back and hip protectors
30:32 Is Amazon responsible for illegal products?
39:59 Reply from Eviron leathers
42:32 Rampant abuse of trust
44:57 Why should you can about CE marks?
48:30 Could these leathers be tested and still cheap?
52:14 How to be sure the bike kit you buy is legal
For exclusive offers on a massive range of bike kit and events, visit rewards.bennet...
SUBSCRIBE FOR OTHER VIDEOS & UPDATES
www.youtube.co...
LET’S CONNECT!
Twitter ▻ / bennetts_bike
Facebook ▻ / bennettsbike
Instagram ▻ / bennetts_bike
#Fake #Motorcycle #Safety

[@bennettsbikesocial]

If you've seen illegal, dangerous or fake kit on Amazon, let them know by using www.amazon.co.uk/hz/contact-us For eBay, report the item from the listing. Thanks everyone for your support - with your help we can hopefully get the big online marketplaces to make changes that will allow riders to make informed decisions when it comes to buying safe kit. Cheers, John Visit www.bennetts.co.uk/bikesocial/reviews/products/leather-jackets-trousers-and-race-suit-reviews/cheap-motorcycle-leathers-fake-danger for updates and feedback from the companies involved. For a simple guide to what the labels in bike kit mean, visit www.bennetts.co.uk/bikesocial/news-and-views/features/product/safest-motorcycle-gear-ce-ratings For the full details of the CE standards law in the UK ad Europe, visit www.bennetts.co.uk/bikesocial/news-and-views/features/product/motorcycle-clothing-the-ce-approval-law-explained For the FEMA guide, visit www.femamotorcycling.eu/buying-motorcycle-clothing/

[@erikawilson1154]

What leathers would you recommend for a 9 year old mini moto racing. I was going to buy off ebay. Now I'm terrified too.

[@bennettsbikesocial]

@@erikawilson1154 UPDATED REPLY... Both ARN and DRC are now certified, and they offer relatively affordable children's sized leathers. Cheers, John

[@peterk2455]

3 years later and nothing has changed. That's because the same regulators refuse to stop the corporate sellers, like A'zon and Flebay, Alithieves etc from selling fake crap. The internet is the shopping center, Amzon etc is the shop. They turn a blind eye to it. All it would take is a working group at the shipping ports, or post office, seizing every fake or substandard item they spot and destroy them. If it doesn't get to the customer it isn't sold. After a couple of months of making refunds they might get the message.

[@Banditmanuk]

This is proper motorcycle journalism 👏 Always researched in depth. I'm Definitely wiser after watching this video. Thanks John.

[@bennettsbikesocial]

Thanks very much! Cheers, John

[@n300zx931]

I think it’s good that people are aware, but also think it’s good that these inexpensive suits are available. I see so many people wearing jeans and a normal jacket instead of leather. These are a massive step up from what so many are wearing.

[@davidcolin6519]

Absolutely! I spent most of my early biking life scraping enough money together to be able to keep biking. I really do get that decent gear needs to be marked as such, but the reality is that a suit like this is far, far better than anything I used to be able to afford. On another topic; wtf are multi-$billion companies given these free passes? I mean, I go on to a site like Amazon BECAUSE there is a level of trust engendered by the name. To then let them avoid all responsibility for stuff that is sold through them is not only disingenuous, it also clearly goes against the views of those people that use these companies! I would guess that a good 60% of Amazon users would agree that stuff bought on amazon should be the responsibility of amazon, I mean, duh! yeah, if amazon can then get a court to side with them that the seller was in the wrong, then that is up to them. I think that the significant majority of users of amazon etc would agree with me on this. If amazon wants to create another platform that is specifically NOT amazon but for resellers, then I'd have no problem with this. But the fact is that amazon resellers take advantage of the amazon name while amazon gains money for allowing others to use their name. There needs to be some sort of responsibility here, and there really is none.

[@andrewpitt621]

I agree. These leathers would be better then buying lots of cheap kit that won't do much. Also it doesn't cost much to upgrade the armour to better stuff. I mean you shouldn't have to but you could. The best thing someone could do when buying it to double check everything and if that person is not comfortable with what they find then they shouldn't buy it.

[@HarrieWorst]

Indeed, better something than nothing. But safe reputable brands doesn't cost you a kidney and a lung when you look into their entry level textile gear. Which is way safer than an unknown leather suit from an unknown factory with zero credentials regarding to respecting safety standards.

[@thetonetosser]

Better to buy used decent kit like Dainese. I've bought a couple of their leather jackets off ebay. Virtually brand new. I think people buy them and for whatever reason, they stick them in the wardrobe for 10 years.

[@guard13007]

Was just thinking about how this is better than my gear even though it's still substandard.

[@flyingklaasman]

You don't need a fancy studio to put out great content. Thanks for the in depth analysis of the requirements that PPE for motorcyclists need to pass!!

[@bennettsbikesocial]

Thanks very much - glad you liked it! Cheers, John

[@bobklee2397]

There are very few channels worth subscribing to for any other reason than entertainment, almost everything is opinion. Bike reviews, footie reviews etc all opinion and fun to watch. Your channel has some opinion but certainly more factual . This sort of work is great and very valuable to me so thank you for taking the time and trouble

[@bennettsbikesocial]

Thanks Bob! This was a tricky one as there was no real way to dress it up as punchy entertainment. But I honestly believe it's important to riders to understand what the CE standards mean; they're to our benefit. Nobody's saying you can't wear what you want, but it really worries me that some companies completely disregard the laws that the legitimate brands are complying with. All the best, John

[@capybara931]

John + Paul you were both absolutely exceptional. Very interesting and very informative as is everything that John produces. Also, everytime I've ever seen anybody reach out to John for help and info he's gone above and beyond to offer his time and support personally. There's one main reason that these videos are so good and that is because John cares so much and it shows. Thank you, we all look forward to seeing your next video.

[@bennettsbikesocial]

That's SO kind, thanks very much! All the best, John

[@paulvarnsverry11]

Thank you for your very kind words of support, Amanda. Much appreciated.

[@lukotoystv]

Finally someone looked into it. For me when it comes to your own safety or others invest on it, don’t just buy it because it’s cheap.

[@bennettsbikesocial]

Totally agree with you there! Cheers, John

[@swissDragonrider]

I ended up watching the entire video because it was that informative and interesting. Great job!

[@bennettsbikesocial]

Brilliant - thanks! All the best, John

[@RikkyTang]

Thank you to Bennetts Bike for having John on your team! For people who aren't buying motorbike magazines anymore, it's very difficult to hold of this sort of information and insight.

[@bennettsbikesocial]

Thanks very much! Cheers, John

[@Steve-motorcycles]

Another quality informative show. This is fast becoming the best motorcycle channel on KZbin

[@bennettsbikesocial]

Thanks very much! Cheers, John

[@james5553]

Brilliant stuff - thank god there are people like Paul out there keeping us all as safe as possible.

[@tomtomed1]

Great video! Both people did a great job at presenting this. It's interesting that they actually bothered to make the stitching and leather good though

[@bennettsbikesocial]

Thanks vey much! It was a tough subject but hopefully it'll help in the long run. Cheers, John

[@sniperjared]

I think these might be factory overruns and some shady factory manager trying to make money on the side, a few controlled items like badges and protectors missing but the rest of hte construction almost exactly the same

[@DaveMurphyEngineer]

Great video providing valuable insight into how legislation and regulation is trying to improve our safety by ensuring products meet a defined minimum standard. Thank you for taking the time to highlight this issue. However - So long as there are people who’s primary buying criteria is price alone, there will always be a market for these types on products on places like Amazon/eBay/Facebook. While people continue to buy these products and the respective big companies take their cut it won’t be in their interest to stop illegal products from being sold on their platforms. It’s great that you’re highlighting that the protective equipment within the suit is actually fake, the fact that the leather suit itself is ‘alright’ will actually justify people’s decisions to buy them. I’ve had a quick skim through the comments and seen several “it’s better than nothing” comments as if that somehow justifies purchasing this standard of product, regardless of whether people know they don’t meet the legal requirements or not - I actually suspect many people would know the equipment wouldn’t pass basic safety certification but would plead ignorance. In these instances, people don’t need legislation to protect them from products that may cause them harm - they need protecting from their own decision making skills when choosing to purchase these kinds of products. Sadly, you can’t legislate against stupidity!

[@bennettsbikesocial]

I couldn't have put it better... thanks! All the best, John

[@6arethevan5]

Another great video 👍 As a new and excited biker (many years ago now!) I remember asking an older colleague who was also a biker, what he thought an a second hand lid is been offered to help get me started.....classic response was 'if you've got a quids with of brains, buy a quids worth of lid' Nuff said really, if you really value you're safety you do your homework and spend what you have to 👍

[@masz6323]

This is one of the most informative videos I've ever seen on KZbin. I hope all other content makers can learn from this. Both the host and guest behaved professionally and didn't just roll with the "it's asian rubbish" attitude. Big ups guys👍

[@bennettsbikesocial]

Cheers! I don't ever worry about where something is made - it's down to the quality and the performance that matters. All the best, John

[@paulvarnsverry11]

@masz : My thanks also for your positive reaction. I can vouch for the fact that irrespective of geographical location, it is possible to manufacture to as high or as low a standard as is set by the factory or its customers. The first tested and certified (under European legislation) motorcyclists’ clothing that I worked on was produced in Pakistan in 1995. I have also worked with (and still do!) factories in China, India, Indonesia, the UK and Vietnam; all of whom produce garments, gloves and footwear which satisfy the requirements of the standards and the legislation.

[@markjackson7650]

Excellent video fellas, thoroughly enjoyed watching it. This really does reiterate the fact that there is a big difference between a product being cheap and good value. Its really great that someone like yourselves, a trusted forum in the motorcycle community, are using your platform to call out these fraudsters who are making money selling people dangerously sub-standard equipment. More importantly you're educating people about the manufacturers responsibilities and helping them make informed decisions when choosing safety equipment. I personally only buy alpinstars or richa products from authorised retailers. For the simple fact that I trust those companies would never risk their reputation standing behind a sub-par product, after all that is why these brands can command the high premiums that they do. However I do sympathise with people who are forced to look at the lower price points as it seems that there are many companies out there capitalising on these people who can't afford the premium products.

[@bennettsbikesocial]

Thanks very much, and I totally agree - I don't want to see an end to kit for people with a limited budget, but I cannot accept a race to the bottom with cheap gear that gets to that price through the use of fraudulent protectors and tax and duty evasion. Eviron is clearly capable of making a decent set of leathers with a little more work, and it wouldn't cost much more at all to have them be certified, which is more than just a rubber stamp exercise - it would mean we'd be confident that one pair of leathers would perform the same as the next pair. Until the same effort is put into that, rather than providing excuses or unsubstantiated claims, I just can't recommend someone buys a product that might be okay in some respect when we tested it, but tomorrow could be something completely different. Cheers, John

[@jeffestrada6857]

Fantastic to see this video. Very informative, great to see your company representing riders like me and trying to keep all us safe. It really must show your integrity as motorcycle service and sellers! If I lived in the UK I know where I would be buying motorcycles and gear! Thankyou so much Regards from “Downunder” Australia 🇦🇺

[@monkeyplayer1]

Thank you for doing the second camera angle with you filming him talking. Drives me crazy when I can’t see who’s talking and asking questions. I also think it’s neat seeing your setup as well.

[@bennettsbikesocial]

Thanks! It's always far from perfect when I'm filming and editing myself but glad it worked. Cheers, John

[@Latitude3324]

Very interesting guys! I’m 56 so I also went through riding in t-shirt without any protection when much younger and living in south of France. Experience (meaning scares and skin left on the road 😉) taught me to always wear the appropriate gear even in summer. These days you can buy for a very decent price from recognized brands especially when on sale. If I take this suit example you can get a Revit one for 340€. I mention this brand as I just saw it this morning. Personally and as my health & safety has no price before buying I check the reviews from sites like yours (thanks for this btw). My point is that safety (you only have 1 body) and bargain can work together without having to buy unknown brands. Cheers 😊

[@Oilyhands749]

I’ve seen these adverts everywhere and did wonder , it’s a real shame the armour was fake , for the sake of a few more penny’s they could be making a decent set of leathers . Your one of the best real world bike channels, keep up the good work .

[@bennettsbikesocial]

Thanks very much! All the best, John

[@john25992]

Loved this video, really good content. Best video I’ve seen on KZbin for a while. You make an interesting point about the responsibility of the marketplace, such as Amazon, that the product is sold. I personally feel it most definitely is part of the platform’s responsibility to vet the product the are allowing to be sold on their platform. The turnover some of these companies (such as Amazon) have is extraordinary - it wouldn’t take much to have dedicated departments that better establish the legality of the products being sold regarding their intended use. It’s appalling really that something that like this can be sold in UK as genuine motorcycle approved equipment. It’s good to see that you can quite easily report this type of stuff though. I spend a good portion of my time looking through British standards for work so it was refreshing to see someone else thoroughly citing them as well. Bit sad but I do like a well put together standard. There’s a good bit of work that goes into it.

[@bennettsbikesocial]

Unfortunately, ease of reporting doesn't seem to go hand in hand with action being taken in teh case of Amazon, ebay or Facebook. Cheers, John

[@paulvarnsverry11]

@John Haynes : I share your sentiments in their entirety. I’ve been challenging Amazon and Facebook ads, but their response so far has been to target me for highlighting non-conforming products (Facebook removing my posts and even threatening to ban me), rather than taking down the ads. There’s no money to be made from meeting their own responsibilities…

[@john25992]

@@paulvarnsverry11 pretty disgraceful behaviour from them isn’t it really

[@tahirsharif9461]

Thanks - very helpful analysis to understand the requirements. Purchased some jeans of eBay a while back and just returned them as the hip and knee protection was just pieces of foam. This was a company manufacturing in the UK. This suit is still on sale via Amazon claiming CE protection.

[@bennettsbikesocial]

Thanks Tahir! That's disgraceful having foam inserts - not to mention illegal. Sadly these leathers are just the tip of the iceberg on the marketplaces, and even when they're reported they don't seem to get blocked. The original listing is gone, but the one that's there now isn't even pretending to be something else. You'd think a check would be run on the sellers, rather than individual listings. Apparently an investigation is ongoing at Amazon, so hopefully we'll see buyers given clearer information, and illegal products not given the chance to appear in the first place. All the best, John

[@bobholley6202]

Amazing how on line marketplaces will remove products they find politically incorrect or offensive, but will sell gear that can get you hurt or killed. All about the $$$$. As someone said earlier, this is proper motorcycle journalism. Great job!!!

[@BoxOfGod]

Online shopping is becoming a nightmare in general. I find myself very often lately in ordinary stores again.

[@TheRamsberg]

Thank you for the excellent work, and the effort put into it.

[@bennettsbikesocial]

Thank you! John

[@dimosk7389]

its really great watching a TRUE expert explaining such complicated stuff... amazing video

[@FragEightyfive]

Overall though, this seems like it would be an OK suit for the leather at least. Just replace the armor with known good armor and you have a cheap suit to get into the sport. Better than nothing.

[@bennettsbikesocial]

If the next one you buy is the same; without certification, there's no guarantee. Still your choice though...

[@blipco5]

Frag... It's certainly better than a tee shirt and jeans.

[@NiSE_Rafter]

Sure but at that point it makes more sense to buy a Cortech or another known budget brand. By the time you replace all the armor you're adding $100-$200 anyways and that gets into the range of entry or on-sale suits that are genuinely rated.

[@FragEightyfive]

@@NiSE_Rafter true. I was thinking I already have a few sets of more recent CE level 1 and 2. Someone just getting started wouldn't have that. Someone else could at least pick out the armor they want i guess.

[@jediknight1294]

@@bennettsbikesocial something like this you shouldn't be buying online anyway, I've seen a fair few suits like this on the markets and in places like Portugal and Pakistan. The trick is to know what you are looking at. Iv bought leather kit that I know the armour was going to get gutted. Thats not a problem in and of itself. The problem is fuckwits that don't understand what they are looking at. I do have the advantage of one of my lovers being a professional leatherworker with 20 years of experience making traditional armour and other pieces and has been involved in carcass to jacket manufacture and is capable of doing her own tanning.

[@Snoozzzzzze]

Any protection is better than none, false claims shouldn’t be made but there is nothing to stop anyone riding in sneakers, jeans and a hoody and rightly so. If it is sold as certified then it really should be otherwise simply state that it’s a fashion item or “paddock” jacket. Great presentation and good advice.

[@ne21]

Interesting indeed, it opens your eyes about where to buy motorcycle products from in future with regards to liability, regulation and responsibilities, it’s not always about price. Makes you think. Thanks.

[@bennettsbikesocial]

Cheers! John

[@donx4]

John mate, keep them coming. Love the deep dives into stuff you do. There's not enough of it out there. I know this touched on a hour, I've 0 problem with longer format videos when the subject matter is there. Great content.

[@bennettsbikesocial]

Thank you! I was worried about how long it got, and I didn't dress it up with fancy graphics or anything, but I really hope we can all make a change with this. Cheers, John

[@bobcatbanzai275]

I find it hard to believe any cheap suits can give the required protection. Back in the 90’s when we were producing Branded Leather suits on the IOM to Certified CE standards, our suits cost around £400/£500 plus. Glad you are still bringing these issues about leather suits etc to the biking community. Cheers

[@rayobrien4274]

well done guys for your great work theres to much of it on the open market it’s got to be stopped please keep up the great work.

[@bennettsbikesocial]

Thanks very much! Cheers, John

[@frankhall401]

The irony being that apart from the back and hip protector it looks like the suit would have passed easily. For the relatively low cost of testing you'd think they'd get it done and be shouting it from the rooftops. Anyway, I'm off to check the the markings on my body armour...

[@RigsvilleBikers]

Great video, very intersting. Thanks for taking the time and spending the ££ to make it.

[@bennettsbikesocial]

Thanks very much! Cheers, John

[@steve00alt70]

The favourite about this is its an hour long I loved it. Hopefully the expert can be on again sometime.

[@paulvarnsverry11]

I just spotted your comment, @Steve00 Alt. John has my phone number, whenever he wants to invite me back.

[@s1dew1nd3r4]

This was incredibly good to watch - there are a lot of companies/brands doing this same type of selling now and having gear made up in Pakistan but selling it like its been made in the UK - I'd love to know how their suits conform and if they also have the real up to date impact protectors!

[@paulvarnsverry11]

Almost all of the companies to which you refer are ignoring their legal responsibilities and are not putting their motorcycle clothing through the testing and certification process. I mentioned knowing of eight such companies in the video, and they are still posting ads on Facebook groups for competition riders and track day enthusiasts. The same names keep cropping up and some are offering two year sponsorship deals to racers to establish a presence in the market. Their suits may be OK, but the law still applies.

[@davegillette953]

Love this guy, great communicator and so knowledgeable. Thank you for this episode!

[@richardgregg2366]

Hands down my new favourite video (and certainly the longest..) I've watched on Yootoob to date. Many thanks guys, keep up the good work. 👍

[@bennettsbikesocial]

Thank you so much! I was worried it would be too long but I just couldn't trim it back anymore, and I really think it's important people understand what's happening. Cheers, John

[@happydays1165]

This is becoming one of the best channels out there

[@bennettsbikesocial]

Thank you! Cheers, John

[@s1dew1nd3r4]

@@bennettsbikesocial do you have a Facebook group for bike social?

[@bennettsbikesocial]

@@s1dew1nd3r4 Yes - it's the Bennetts Bike one. Here it is: facebook.com/bennettsbike

[@s1dew1nd3r4]

@@bennettsbikesocial ah its not a group just a page.

[@bennettsbikesocial]

@@s1dew1nd3r4 We do now: facebook.com/groups/bikesocial

[@borderreiver8288]

I have always been prepared to buy quality gear from known manufacturers and retailers so maybe I'm not your target audience! However, I really do appreciate the work put in on this and on many other reviews from bikes to cleaners! I think you are building a brilliant brand profile which I guess is the point and I'm happy to be on board. For a serious subject like this it would be unrealistic to cover the necessary detail in less time - what we get is a quality review so thanks. I look forward to many more.

[@bennettsbikesocial]

Thanks SO much - I really appreciate that! Cheers, John

[@karrlitowaise6354]

I have 8 alpinestar jackets and many of them have horrible back foam. So I already know I've spent $600 and will need a back protector. I have a race suit with a crappy back protector which I have to use my own. Also at least Pakistan will make a suit in big sizes. Im a 62. Trying to fine that size is none existing lol. Even the robust spidi suit is hard to find here in the states. I appreciate the video. But im glad I can by a inexpensive suit and add my certified armor. Im glad we have the options but most of us know what we are buying. Appreciate you and your videos. But I love the leading brands and these they make suit for us bigger ppl and we can added the upgrades. THANK YOU.

[@albertol1529]

This is a superb video: incredibly informative, and more than anything, really eye opening. I have never scrimped on safety, but I have been in a fortunate position of having the financial means. I was saved certain paralysis/possible death by a £110 Spidi back protector in 2005. That was quite a bit of money in those days, but it was the best £100 odd quid I’d spent. I flew up in the air and landed on my back and I landed on the side of my bike (Aprilia RST 1000 Futura) right on the foot peg. That back protector saved my life. Cheap equipment looks enticing, no-one wants to pay more than they need to. However, the loss of a biker doesn’t affect one person, it affects many, many people. “What price do you put on their lives?” is the question you should be asking yourself. I have 4 (now 5) kids at the time and a loving family, and hundreds of people at work that depended on me. (I’d like Bennett’s Social to test BMW branded helmets (system 7, please) and some of their gear too. Since that accident I graduated to BMW and have exclusively BM kit, bar a pair of Daytona Evo Sports GTX boots. It’d be nice to see that stuff tested since many BM riders buy the kit. With the GSA being the best selling (large capacity) bike in the world, there’d be a lot of interested viewers.)

[@steve23464]

I wouldn't personally buy it, but for the street you have to balance 215.00 leathers vs 5.00 tee-shirt or 15.00 spring jacket.

[@BIKECHANNELKENYA]

This video just came in time, my alpine stars leathers are looking a bit old and had gotten one seller who was offering me one for 220$(155£) which I intended to buy over the weekend!. John you just saved me.thank you for this type of content.

[@bennettsbikesocial]

That's great news! Please do buy with caution... Cheers, John

[@diegocella6791]

What is this? It kina looks like proper jurnalism... i thought it was exctint! But here it is, probably the last of the breed, propr job Guys!

[@bennettsbikesocial]

Thanks very much! The irony is, I'm an ex-magazine designer, so it was all shapes and colours in the past. Cheers, John

[@allenglishknives6823]

Really like this style of video. Will definitely be sticking to reputable brands when I upgrade my leathers!

[@charlesscottkelly]

This is a proper review 👏brilliant stuff, has made me think about what I need in new gear.

[@tachitup]

This is fantastic. Thank you!

[@bennettsbikesocial]

Thanks for your support! Really hoping we can get Amazon, eBay and Facebook to take some notice and help keep riders safer. Cheers, John

[@blipco5]

I bought an expensive Vanson leather jacket twenty years ago and have used it for tens of thousands of miles. I paid $600 US for it back then and have no regrets. After watching this, I enjoy it even more. Buy quality kit always. Take care of it and it will last.

[@WisePaul1337]

Thanks for taking the time to make this video. Very informative.

[@bennettsbikesocial]

Glad it was helpful! Cheers, John

[@NiSE_Rafter]

I got some RST leathers for $400 USD on sale with genuine CE protectors recently, which is not really much more than £215/$300. Imho it's much more worth it to save up the extra $100 or whatever and wait for a sale than to skimp out for unproven safety gear. I don't understand why people can shell out money for a fancy bike but don't want to spend on their safety. Can't ride that bike as a cripple...

[@Dreddingbath]

Superb journalism. As an aside, love John’s studio being set up to look like his garage at home, very authentic.

[@bennettsbikesocial]

It is my garage at home! I've since fixed a spigot on the bottom of one of the shelves so I could get the light up, then I put a coloured light on the other side. I wired the strip light above my head separately to the test so I could turn that one off while filming.

[@nickthequick]

First off: Great subject and presentation as always John. When that is said, I wonder if the target audience for these low-price, low-safety, products are really going to watch this nearly one hour video. Obviously my own guess is: No they won't. I think, with a few exceptions, the buyers of these products are the young men doing wheelies in your neighborhood and posting pictures on Instagram and TikTok. Their attention span is 30-45 seconds, not 45+ minutes.

[@bennettsbikesocial]

Sadly it needed explanation - just telling people to be cautious is too general, and buying cheap shouldn't have to mean dealing with law-breaking companies. Cheers, John

[@AbdurrahmanZedSaeed]

Im 21, but i love these kind of video that has thorough explanation, even though people would like to have short video, but I couldnt ask more.

[@Lyingleyen]

God bless Paul Varnsverry for all of his life time's serious work towards rider safety.

[@paulvarnsverry11]

Wow! That’s really kind of you. Many others have supported and continue to support the effort to provide riders with better kit and more information, so I hope you won’t mind me sharing your sentiments with them.

[@Jim553just]

Your commitment to keeping riders safe and well informed, is a credit to you. In this situation though, all the CE certifications and guarantees, cannot replace common sense. Why skimp on safety equipment? Would you buy a cheap parachute? Probably only once

[@bennettsbikesocial]

You're absolutely right, but to many people - maybe new to riding or just really on a tight budget - the temptation is there. My big problem with it is that the point of CE standards is to help people make an informed choice, but these companies are - frankly - being given easy access to millions of potential buyers while flouting the law thanks to disinterest from the online marketplaces. Experienced riders will often know that it's worth going to the dealer and getting proper advice, or reading reviews, but a teenager on their first bike could be easily forgiven for being taken in. I just hope we can get a change! Cheers, John

[@oliw3664]

Great stuff, thank you both. Buy from a trusted retailer only in my view.

[@NishadAbdulkhader]

John the effort and study you put in into each videos is priceless 👌..

[@bennettsbikesocial]

Thank you - I really appreciate that! Cheers, John

[@orange42]

Guys, they just DONT think like you. The only thing they think about is saving money. If that means using a $4.90 part instead of a $5.00 part they will do it and pocket the difference themselves. The production and distribution chain is corrupt. That is the reason why free trade is difficult because of those different cultural standards of personal integrity.

[@swheelman7231]

Looks like I need to put in some decent armour. Made up it stood up to the build test tho 😅

[@bennettsbikesocial]

Consistency is impossible to promise with no certification trail but you can have a good look at the seams and general construction to see if yours looks like ours. If you have the same armour, Eviron has stated that it will replace it with genuine Level 1 armour so if you ask them, let me know how that goes (use email or via our Facebook page as comments don't always get caught). Otherwise yes, if it's the same as this then I'd get yourself a decent back protector and hip armour, then you should be a lot safer. Feel free to give me a shout on email or FB. Cheers, John

[@swheelman7231]

@@bennettsbikesocial Would body armour shirt be a better option than new inserts, Ie Revit proteus jacket ( other brands are available )

[@bennettsbikesocial]

@@swheelman7231 An armour undersuit can keep the protectors in place well, but to be honest I'd save the money and just fit a proper back protector and hip armour. That's assuming what you have is the same as what we do, and that the knee, elbow and shoulder armour is the same as that tested to be okay; it might be from the same seller, but I couldn't know if it's made the same without seeing it. If you want to send some pics of the protectors, grab me with a PM on our Facebook page. Cheers, John

[@mikephillips3947]

Another brilliant video. Since watching your channel I’m always checking my old kit. Even before buying any new stuff I alway check to see how protective it is. 👍👍

[@mikephillips3947]

Also I’m now a new member of bike social and find it brilliant kind reguards look forward to some more videos. 👍👍

[@bennettsbikesocial]

@@mikephillips3947 Thanks! Make sure you check out the new Bennetts High Performance Award! www.bennetts.co.uk/bikesocial/reviews/products/high-performance-safest-motorcycle-clothing

[@yakekaj]

Well done John another fantastic bit of geekery... Super interesting and I bet it's an eyeopener for many people, me included. Unfortunately you often just get what you pay for, There are good examples of more direct suppliers out there such as Alpkit and Lomo - Great for drybags ;-) I feel you are better going for reputable brands, I use Spada kit which isnt expensive but works (haven't tested the impact or abrasion resistance myself, luckily)... Yet again some of the best KZbin Biking content there is!!

[@bennettsbikesocial]

Thanks very much! Cheers, John

[@bellicromanx]

It seems to have fared better than I expected. I throw out the bundled armor most of the time anyway unless they are CE level 2 from known companies. I personally prefer gear without armor bundled in as a result, as I can save money and have my preferred armor going in instead. Nice vid.

[@paulvarnsverry11]

As I mentioned when I first saw the suit, its appearance was encouraging. There is some very good leather produced in Pakistan (although some factories import, for example, Brazilian hides) and factories which know how to put motorcycle clothing together - given many of the major brands’ have their riding kit made in Pakistan, and *their* products are tested and certified, it should be no surprise that the materials and skills exist! The danger is in the “race to the bottom” on price, with companies new to the market that have no brand recognition and can only try to secure business with a low price. As John and I both agree in the video, something has to give. In the case of the Eviron suit it was fake armour. Other suppliers might make economies in other aspects of the garment.

[@2wheelsrbest327]

Great video and being an old boy of 70 its got me wondering whether protective clothing should be made compulsory like Crash Helmets were. However I must add that having three grandsons who want to be like Grandad in riding motorbikes it would give both me and their parents if they had to wear protective clothing that they would be that bit safer.

[@alexturner2126]

If you make it compulsory you take away someones freedom to make choices for themselves, thats not what bikes are about and if people want to leave their skin all along the street they should be allowed to, it doesnt really affect anybody else and i certainly dont want to fined every time i go up the shops on 20mph roads because im not wearing my leathers in 30 degree sun

[@AleksiJoensuu]

That's an interesting point on whether someone at a factory has familiriarity with the product they're making. Reminded me of when I bought a fishing tackle once that sort of illustrated the same phenomenon. I'm certain the tackle was made to the specifications the company ordered: Correct material, correct gauge of wire, correct tensile strength and what not. The problem was it was built by someone who didn't fish - and so the tackle was built entirely open, such that it simply wouldn't hold a lure. Perhaps the same is true here: You might make a product that looks like the pictures the designer sent, uses the materials and stitching the buyer specified... But if you don't use race leathers, you just couldn't get the design right without instructions.

[@bennettsbikesocial]

That's what the big brands bring to it. There is some excellent manufacturing skill all over the world, but any product has to be designed by someone who knows what's needed. Of course, nobody gets it right all the time, but the PPE regulation at least levels the playing field when it comes to safety, and allows people to buy knowing that it achieves a given standard. Then they can worry about how well it fits and looks. Cheers, John

[@rickchardet01]

Amazing video, thanks for taking the time and doing something so in-depth!

[@bennettsbikesocial]

Thanks very much! Cheers, John

[@ananthkumar19]

This video definitely deserves more views. More people need to watch this. Very informative!!

[@bennettsbikesocial]

Thanks very much! Cheers, John

[@paulvarnsverry11]

Share the link on your social media feeds, Ananth. The more riders that can be better informed of the situation, and their options, the better.

[@johnharvey5338]

I remember going to Beaulieu 10 years ago and seeing a set of leathers for £99, they had no liner in them and were single stitched, I was an apprentice tailor in my younger years and said to some looking not to bother and he but they look good, said will fall apart if you crash and walked off, cheap fake kit is nothing new and still a problem, but for some, the answer is it’s cheap is all that matters.

[@bennettsbikesocial]

Buying cheap is okay as long as you know what you're buying. But until sellers are forced to be honest, there'll always be illegal and potentially dangerous kit for sale on what are the biggest shopping outlets in the world. Cheers, John

[@timmasonguitar]

This was more like Panorama. Great work, and I wish there weren't so many loopholes for those with clever lawyers to exploit.

[@bennettsbikesocial]

Thank you! All the best, John

[@madcockney]

Incidentally I note from the Bike Social website that you have heard no further on this. The person mentioned from Eviron is in fact a director of four companies though one appears to be virtually non trading and the turn over of the other three is very low according to their last filed accounts. With regards to Eviron I think in fact they are possibly acting as a middle agent with the company in India paying them a commission. This would account for their low accounts unless they have only been selling very low priced products previously and only recently gone into the pricier motorcycle rider products. Of course you can have two companies one operating as incorporated and the other as a sole trader and with the latter there are no publicly available financial filings.

[@amjidali7435]

Sailkot Pakistan is the city where 50% of the world foot balls are made there footballs are also used in fifa world cup am sure they know how to certify there products but it look like they just dont want to on the cost of selling it cheap am going to Pakistan next month and hopefully i will try to find out if they are willing to talk

[@joek81981]

This might be thee most important video I've seen in the last 12 months. I'm American, so none of this strictly applies, in fact, its probably worse here, or rather, there'd be less recourse for just selling whatever. We sell our laws here.

[@Patriot-Logic]

A motorcyclist would be inept if they don’t subscribe to this channel! Priceless info!!!!

[@bennettsbikesocial]

Thanks so much! Cheers, John

[@SimonTheSquid]

Great video! I think the biggest issue is the lack of clear accurate information to a consumer. Sounds like a perfectly legitimate route for someone looking to save costs would be to buy cheap leathers and replace all the protectors for instance, but the lack of information or throwing around "CE" makes it unclear for the consumer. Safer than jeans and a t-shirt though which is probably more the riding market that these types of suits target. For the price of an RST suit these days there's just no sense in going cheap though imo.

[@bennettsbikesocial]

Absolutely! The law is in place to make it easier for buyers, but there seems to desire for marketplaces like Amazon to enforce it. Maybe things will change... Cheers, John

[@SimonTheSquid]

@@bennettsbikesocial Well the first step to that change is shining some light on the issue clearly which you've done an excellent job of here! Keep up the great work!

[@bennettsbikesocial]

@@SimonTheSquid Thanks so much! All the best, John

[@VirtualGhost27]

We need to get companies like Environ out of the industry. Flat out scammers.

[@NSR500V4]

Great video and plenty of food for thought for anyone shopping for cheap leathers. Very informative

[@bennettsbikesocial]

Thanks very much Alan! Cheers, John

[@tpatrick6902]

I purchased a Pakistani made Alpinestars clone and a Dainese clone. The armor was the same garbage your man exposed here. The lining too is crap. But the fit is excellent, the leather and stitching was my biggest concern. Now replaced entire garment with D30 level 2. Elbows, shoulders and back. Your testing has eased my mind a bit regarding the abrasion resistance. My question, fitted with a full complement of D30 level 2, and similar stitching, would this garment be considered safe to wear for street riding? Thank you gentlemen, you really have done a tremendous job here.

[@paulvarnsverry11]

@T Patrick: Thank you for taking the time to respond. The first off-the-peg, CE marked motorcyclists’ clothing was produced in Pakistan, in 1995 - R.S. Performance Protection was the brand and the suits, jackets and trousers all achieved the Cambridge Standard for High Performance (Level 3 - higher than EN 13595 Level 2, which in turn is a much tougher test than the latest EN 17092-2:2020 Class AAA; more information at www.bennetts.co.uk/bikesocial/news-and-views/features/product/motorcycle-clothing-the-ce-approval-law-explained). So, producing conforming garments is well within the capabilities of Sialkot’s factories, has been for 25 years, and of course that is where a significant proportion of all modern-day, EN 17092-conforming motorcycle clothing is being produced. The lining issue in the featured suit, and in your own garments, is annoying, because for not a lot more money per metre there are superior alternatives available in the local market. Would you have resented paying between fifteen and twenty Pounds more than you did, if the garments had been fitted with authentic protectors and a quality lining? It’s impossible to say if what you purchased is up to scratch without physically inspecting the garments. It’s also impossible to say with certainty if they would pass the tests with subjecting them to destructive analysis. An estimation of their capabilities, based on experience, is possible by physical inspection. Any guesswork would be unnecessary, however, if you live in the EU or UK and were purchasing the same garments now, as the manufacturer is required by law to test and certify the clothing. Your garments would have a rating, the lining would also have to be of the necessary quality to achieve that rating, and if the manufacturer tried to fit fake protectors into a certified garment they would risk having their garment certifications withdrawn by the issuing body.

[@tpatrick6902]

@@paulvarnsverry11 Paul, thank you for responding, the work you're doing is important and greatly appreciated. To answer your question, I would have paid extra for a proper lining. I knew beforehand I'd need proper armor, At the price I wasnt delusional. I knew they'd skimp there. And of that I'm relieved, armor is cheap and I have bags of it. The leather and stitching concerned me. It feels good, fairly thick and supple. Not great leather but not dogshit either. Again, thanks mate and keep up the good work. You're keeping us all safer.

[@ataboyboyboy8895]

That's why I only buy from UK well known retailers. Everything is listed and checked and easy return. A little bit more money but hey, it is your life.

[@mybikegarage1040]

I do think its good to know the truth. I also believe we as consumers are and have been abused by the Name brand and manufacturers brands in regard to the pricing of safety equipment for many years. As the Manufactures learn or are punished for their mistakes, I hope they get their act together and produce a quality properly certified product.

[@MotoGoato]

Excellent video and content. Thank you for this priceless advice.

[@royalalloy3471]

When you buy leathers on amazon for £200 even a mouth breather knows they are fake... People just bluff they didn't know... Buy cheap buy twice. A fantastic video...

[@SzilvasiFerike]

Excellent job again lads great video and can tell a lot of effort went into this. Keep up the good work. 👍

[@bennettsbikesocial]

Thank you! Cheers, John

[@m0mgf]

Thanks John. A very informative video. You will need to work on building up your forearms to prevent the cuffs from riding up :).

[@venturi210]

A long video but well worth the watch. Price is important to all of us, (unless you are rich), and with any motorcycle gear I feel I will always be treading that compromise between quality and cost. I always try to buy named brands and from reputable dealers, but that wasn't always the case. The older I get, the more I appreciate how important good quality gear is. More responsibility and disposable income = better gear. It's the young lads who are on minimum wage and are riding around just to get to work that I feel for.

[@bennettsbikesocial]

Absolutely - I really want to see safe kit as cheap as possible, especially for newer riders. There will be a bottom limit to what can be produced of course, but there's no excuse for misleading people, especially those new to biking. Sadly this is just the tip of a very big and dangerous iceberg. Cheers, John

[@davidhull1610]

Very interesting video...but I remember what the guy in the shop said when I bought my first skid lid....."If you have a £50 head, buy a £50 helmet...if you think it's worth more than that try the Arai Giga!"

[@Pops-007]

Thanks guys for sharing this great information on the safety levels of the products. I recently purchased a mesh jacket for summer riding and went to check the protectors but typically they are not removeable or accessible. so cannot know if it is safe or not.

[@ivanhoe4766]

At such a low price, could one easily replace the low grade protection with proper certified protection.

[@bikersquest]

This is why I only buy from reputable shops and reputable brands. I remember fake Dainese Wave back protectors being sold on sites like eBay which looked identical to the real thing but having abysmal safety performance. I think some of these brands may carry on selling but under the guise of fashion rather than safety to get around the laws maybe.

[@bennettsbikesocial]

They'll try, but if there is any hint that it's meant to be protective, or there is any armour (or pockets for armour), it comes under the PPE regs. Sadly though, online marketplaces are doing nothing to help enforce the law. Cheers, John

[@molluscturtle]

Great video. Surprised at just how well that suit was made - for a few quid more per suit and a couple of changes (armour, cuffs, lining) they’d have an excellent, approved product.

[@bennettsbikesocial]

The potential is there, but it'd have to be tested and certified to prove it, just like the lw-abiding companies do. And they'd need to pay tax of course!

[@Certago]

If they do that and also stop the import shenanigans (avoidance of tax and import duty) you've got a similar price to decent Oxford or other branded and fully approved gear...

[@bennettsbikesocial]

@@Certago Yep, exactly!

[@taff6987]

Baught Arlen ness new once...£1200 magnesium suit. Had it for around £800 I think. Baught another Arlen ness suit like new very little ware if any for £160 I would never buy new again. Theres advantages with buying second hand. 1. You pay a fraction of the cost if your patient 2. Some poor sod has already broken the suit in for you! 3. You can sell it on and not loose much money at all if any. That's my outlook. As far as these cheap suits go, if their that much cheaper you have to ask yourself WHY!? HOW!? Where have corners been cut! Some right shady fuckers out there looking to profit which could leave u with a very subpar suit and some fleshy wounds to show for it. BUY CHEAP BUY TWICE! Pay that little bit more (and it's worth it) and protect yourself....or just do what I do and stalk around for second hand steals.👍🏼

[@Saxymancan]

Great informative video, if people buy from these companies because its cheap then more fool them, I work for a German company and we are routinely more expensive that the competition, purely because we apply all CE documentation, safety and quality standards, yes we know its more expensive, everything we do in the west in more expensive than something made in Asia purely because they don't apply the same diligence to their products, if they did they would be a similar price. I stopped buying on price alone years ago and yes its a little harder to finance things, but I am more than happy to pay extra for something I know has been thoroughly researched, tested and manufactured to the highest standards. Look at Arai helmets, arguably the best helmets you can buy, how come there are so many cheap helmets for sale, because people are prepared to take that risk with their bonce to save a few £££$$$.

[@paulvarnsverry11]

Great insight into the issues, Simon. The PPE Regulation requires diligence by all economic operators in the supply chain, including retailers. How many retail staff understand what their legal obligations are? The British Safety Industry Federation has tried to engage with and offer support to the National Motorcycle Dealers Association, but as far as I am aware no response has ever been received.

[@petermindham147]

I think this was an excellent piece. My only question is that although the protectors discussed do not meet present standards, they did meet standards from before. So they have some integrity, if not as good as current protectors. Therefore, they do offer some protection, just less than newer ones. If the buyer knows this and makes a choice based on the facts, then it is definitely buyer beware.

[@thetonetosser]

I've been wearing top branded kit for nearly 30 years. To me, the top two/most popular brands peaked in quality around 2010. Especially leathers. Seems now that even these top brands have moved production to the far east. What I'm seeing from these manufacturers isn't as good as it used to be.

[@azhariqbal1212]

I bought one of these leather suit direct from Pakistan, given them my measurement and ask them to use good zippers and lining all around. The suit came in time and it fits like a gloves and all I did was change all the protection to CV level 2 from forcefield product. This cost me £375 all in and the leather was of really top grade. Now for £375 I could only buy RST leather which is still made in Pakistan and will have CV level 1 protection and plus this will not fit me like a glove. You can have any design of your choice.

[@paulvarnsverry11]

Whoever supplied your suit is still required to meet their legal obligations under the PPE Regulation.

[@mattmutane5502]

@Lexus GT3 How do you know the leather is top grade, especially if it is not certified/tested?

[@azhariqbal1212]

@@mattmutane5502 Good question, I got Alpinestar leather jacket and trousers and this leather suit is much heavy and thicker to look and feel. I wish I could show you. 😃

[@azhariqbal1212]

@@paulvarnsverry11 That's fine but all I can tell you that this is much much better then RST leather evo suit. When I was thinking of buy a cheap suit. This suit is much heavier then any other good suit by Alpinestar. Plus I got Alpinestar leather jacket and trousers this leather is as good as alpinestars. I only need this to save me from road rash. 😆

[@shinobi-no-bueno]

I live in Arizona in the USA and while I do appreciate that we don't have overregulation of victimless activities, I do always shake my head when I see some weirdo riding his Harley in shorts and a tank top with no helmet and slippers on 🤦

[@TheDreadedThirteenth]

'The police rider was equipped with a textile suit from a well known brand'... my brain went straight to alpinestars or dainese then immediately realised there's no way the uk police has the budget for that 🤣🤣

[@philiphorner]

It baffles me how people will decide to pay so little to protect themselves. Don’t get me wrong this video was worth making and covered a lot of points but the end of the day how much do you value your spine and wrists? Or how much more time can you afford to take off work after an accident by having inferior kit?? Race to the bottom indeed!

[@mherbert3646]

I stumbled across this channel a couple months back. I'm UK born now living in Canada. In response to your question about how much people value their spines, at least here, there is very much a "it won't happen to me" mentality. Almost daily come summer time, can see (generally young riders) shorts, flip flops and tee shirts for standard riding kit.

[@soupdragon1]

Excellent information and presentation well done Gent's 👏

[@bennettsbikesocial]

Thanks very much! Cheers, John

[@alexirobot]

Please someone tell me their reasoning of buying a cheap track day suit? Just one track day could easily cost £250, just for the track access fee, then plus fuel, bike maintenance/transportation costs, about £350 for good tyres. Then you will be on the track at high speed with a high risk of going down. Why would you want something cheap to be the only protection for you? For me personally, I am looking for the most expensive gear that I can reasonably afford. If its a suit it has to be around £1000 or more. If its too expensive for you - then take up another hobby and save yourself a lot of trouble, financial and potentially physical.

[@jediknight1294]

One major problem with the regulations is it makes production of gear for those of us with significantly off standard physical features its punitively expensive to get gear that fits. Iv been a wheelchair user since I was 9 my shoulder muscle and chest muscle shape is entirely incompatible with most gear cut for the average. I have one leg.with significant physical difference to the other and my hips have been altered surgically. If I have to have a a fully constructed version of the garment tested before I can have it certed it means I can't get gear that works. The leather slide/abrasion stats, the chemical composition, the materials the armour is made of I can get but the final product not being certed is a massive barrier for me because there AREN'T people able or willing to do the kind of fitting needed working for the major brands for someone who isn't a sponsored racer. The majority of the Companies making stuff 'made to measure' for the track day rider/amateur racer market are working off a basic pattern/block and making minor adjustments. Those of us who need something.that is GENUINELY custom patterned to us are fucked.

[@paulvarnsverry11]

@Jediknight 129: I don’t know precisely how each and every manufacturer of made-to-measure motorcycle clothing works, but working from a basic block pattern (which establishes the generic cut of the garment) should not constitute a barrier to accommodating your precise requirements. I recommend speaking with a manufacturer in detail about what you require in order to make a garment work for you. I’d be very surprised if Brian at BKS or Kate at Hideout were unable to work with you on a solution.

[@rickspencer3839]

Great run down. Taking it from “soup to nuts” in why something is safe or not. Great video. Good job.

[@bennettsbikesocial]

Thanks very much! Cheers, John