Best Grind Setting for Espresso - Dialing In

[@precisionsoundworksstudio]

Another excellent vid. Not only is the delivery and presentation top notch, the video quality and editing is fantastic!

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hi PSW, Thanks for the kind words! Marc

[@ferologics]

this guys voice should be on national tv or something

[@benholland3682]

I could honestly listen for hours. Its the perfect tone.

[@MrEye4get]

National TV? What's that? KZbin is the new TV!

[@steinanderson]

I'll eat my hat if he wasn't the singer in a band when he was young

[@df2dot]

One of the best videos I've ever seen for my skill level. Thank you

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hey d, thanks a whole latte for the comment! Marc

[@kwakyechan]

@@Wholelattelovepage Haha this gave me a good chuckle

[@michaelroselli]

WLL is the GOAT. Thank you for years of education and insights!

[@airgunsandstuffyorkshire269]

8:35 this is the most helpful way i have seen dialing in explained. I will be using this method. Thank you.

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hey airguns, and thank you for the comment! Marc

[@S2Sturges]

Cool vid, thanks..! Although not beginner stuff, my wife worked for Starbucks in Vancouver, Canada, back in the early 90's when they still used bulk beans in the grinder and espresso machine. She would talk about sometimes changing the grind through out the day as the barometric pressure changed the machines themselves, , sometimes 3-4 times...

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hey S2S, You're welcome. Thanks for the comment and sharing your story! Not unusual at all for grind size to need some adjustment through the day. Love Vancouver BC! Marc

[@janjaylicas3646]

Thank you for the video. It is the clearest explanation and demo on how to dial in.

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hey JL, Thanks for the comment! Marc

[@AA-SFO]

Great video. One other variable that I have not seen mentioned much, alongside grind size, is brew boiler temperature. I had been getting a lot of bitter espresso no matter how I adjusted the grind. Then it was suggested by a barista (for the coffee I was using) to decrease my brew temperature from 202-203 range down to 198. Now the tasting notes of the coffee are very present. I had been cooking them out with the higher temperature.

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hi AA! Brew temp makes a difference for sure! Any chance your favorite coffee is in the dark range? Typically those do best at cooler temperatures in the 195-200 range. Marc

[@claytomovel]

Best video quality on KZbin. Congratulations to the WLL team!

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hey c, Thanks! Marc

[@mohamsoft]

thanks for NOT playing an annoying music loop in the background. very informative with your professional amazing voice :D

[@O.G.Alphaborn]

Thank You Marc. I am starting to see less and less light as I look up. 🤔

[@rickstokes2239]

On my Breville Touch Pro with a 54mm basket I’m set at a grind of 12 at 19 seconds on a bottomless filter with a porta screen and get a perfect double shot pull.

[@jpondabuck]

There coffee beans are so good! You have to try!

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hi j, thanks for the comment! Folks love the Wave: www.wholelattelove.com/products/whole-latte-love-crema-wave-whole-bean-espresso?variant=39276549668918 It's a locally roasted modern American take on classic Italian style bean blend using 100% specialty grade Arabica beans. Marc

[@coldcoffeehk]

Excellent video to the new espresso beginner like me. Thanks!

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hi Brian, well thanks for the comment - happy to help! Marc

[@elishmittywerminghanjensen1264]

Great video for reminders on the basics too! Always good to review and reflect on current workflow to make sure you're not lacking anywhere.

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Absolutely! Thanks for the commet! Marc

[@eralasch]

As to my experience, grinders do have inertion far beyond a couple of seconds grinding after having changed the grind size. My Silenzio stabilizes on a new grind size normally after having processed 3 times 18g.

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hi e, 36g - very excessive! Not my experience. When adjusting grind size the distance between the burrs changes immediately. Should only have to push out what's partially ground between burrs and any ground coffee remaining in channel after burrs to delivery spout. In a Silenzio maybe a few grams max. Marc

[@55bess]

very very very interesting and useful video for beginners

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Glad you liked it! Marc

[@Elfin4]

I had a Breville/Sage grinder and just purchased a Mahlkonig X54 to accompany my new Bezzera Aria. Can't believe how finer the grind I can now achieve and how that translates to fantastic coffee extraction. I was having real problems getting good results as just couldn't get the coffee fine enough, now I can really hone down the finer elements for that perfect coffee.

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hi Elfin4, Thanks so much for sharing your experience! As I mentioned in the video with grinders you get what you pay for! Marc

[@scottwilkins6966]

I also had a Breville grinder and upgraded to a Baratza sette. I can't believe the difference! Completely new coffee experience with the same beans.

[@SmallSpoonBrigade]

@@scottwilkins6966 Yes, arguably, the grinder is the bit of coffee equipment that makes the most difference in terms of your espresso making experience. Far more so than the espresso machine. The machine mostly just needs to be able to get a consistent temperature and generate enough steam to do the job. Which, even a relatively cheap machine can do these days.

[@ScoobGruber]

Great videos as always. Problem I seem to always have these days are shots coming out too slow then rapidly coming out towards the middle/end. If I try and dial in courser the shot just comes out even faster. Even puck screens don't help.

[@TheYorkshireVlogger]

Brilliant video. Thank you very much for the helpful tips.

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hi TYV, You are most welcome! Marc

[@cssc939]

Now, even if you are using the same grinder as me, that doesn't mean you should be grinding .8 YOU HAVE TO DIAL IN FOR YOUR COFFEE and other brewing variables. Thank you! This is the mistakr I was making as I tried to follow "world barista champ recipes" instead of finding the perfect blend of variables.

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hey chris, you're welcome! Yes, you must dial in grind size for your particular variables! Marc

[@Clench23]

Excellent videos. Your explanations are simple and really easy to understand both for a beginner and for someone more experienced. Indeed the type of equipment is there for several factors, notably the infusion time... The quality of the grinder you use etc. When you use a manual espresso machine, you need the basic equipment... The scale, a good grinder and a good temper and leveler. It is also necessary to know the bases also concerning the radio of coffee beans in the grinder and how many there will be in the filter holder compared to the basic time of infusion compared to the number of milliliters of coffee... Whether it is a radio 1 of 2 or 1 of 3 as I use... Don't let go of your excellent work in teaching how to use the different equipment and others... Well done, very nice work.

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hey Gil, Thanks for your support! I appreciate your comments and reinforcing points made in the video. Basic equipment/tools improve consistency and results in the cup. For ratios, like grind size there is no one size fits all answer - why one must always taste even if it appears to be a bad extraction. Marc

[@stephenhaynes603]

Good video i have been under loading the basket so was getting severe channelling and the water flow was not tidy spraying at variable angles. i have now got to a finer grind size but still my machine thinks 8 seconds does it! so i can only assume from here i need to go finer again. untill i can land atleast 20 seconds for a 2 shot size from my double basket.

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hi sh, Thanks for the comment! What make/model machine and grinder? Yes, 8 seconds is way too fast - you will need to grind finer! Marc

[@stephenhaynes603]

@@Wholelattelovepage thank you for your response my machine is an entry level deddica 385 i think its called- with steam wand. it seems the psi on this machine is perhaps faulty ..... no way of knowing unless i have a pressure gauge to attach on the brewer head. i can try a finer grade , perhaps this would work better.

[@cigarnationwarriors]

Mark, you always present meaningful and helpful videos. Thank you.

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hey William, you are welcome - glad you like them! Marc

[@jpoppinmoneyunit7098]

Thanks mark from whole latte love. I know you did a video on single shots but would be nice if you expanded a bit more on it.

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hey j, you are welcome. I always suggest beginners start with doubles as singles are trickier. But process, timing, etc. is exactly the same. Need same brew water contact time with the coffee as for doubles. Marc

[@FlyfisherStreams]

Well Bob, let the contestants know what they won! We'll tom! Here is a brand new TV! Love the voice!

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hey FfS, Thanks for the comment and C'mon down you're the next contestant on the Price Is Right! Marc

[@rossbrown6649]

I think all grinders should come with a calibration that indicates what the burr separation is, in microns (0.001mm), for the graduations on their grind dials. It would then be a good starting point for transferring settings from one grinder to another.

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hi Ross, Thanks for the comment. Great idea! Marc

[@SmallSpoonBrigade]

I suppose, but the actual distance is largely irrelevant as long as the gradations are close enough to get you dialed in. The manual usually tells you what basic range you should start with and from there you go courser or finer depending upon what you're observing out of those beans. Also, you're not typically going to want to transfer settings as for best results, you'll dial in a particular grinder for the particular beans you're using.

[@rossbrown6649]

@@SmallSpoonBrigade I understand the process of dialing in, but my issue was how to share information, and the numbers on the grinders are not comparable between grinders unless you can calibrate the actual burr separation. I grind at 15.5 on my df83, and 26 on my K-6 hand grinder: you tell me how they compare if you don't know what the burr separation is for each, and the fact that the K-6 is a conical burr means you have to use geometry to determine its separation. I thought all baristas were as obsessive-compulsive as I am.

[@tsatsmana]

Hey man, first of all, thank you for sharing your experience with us. im ready to pull the trigger for a eureka mignon specialita or barazza sette to pair with my Gaggia classic and improve my extractions. Currently i use a cheap gaggia md15 and i think its killing the taste of every coffee in the market.

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hi t, I used the Gaggia MDF grinder years ago but have not used the MD15. Did take a look and it has very limited grind size precision so a grinder upgrade should make a huge difference! At a glance the MD15 might be okay for lower quality extractions using pressurized filter baskets and that's about it. The Sette is a very good appliance grade grinder. It is loud, plasticky and uses a conical burr. For espresso you def want one of the Sette 270 models for precise control of grind size. The Mignon Specialita is a machine grade product and uses 55mm flat burrs which are generally preferred for espresso over conical. It will not grind as fast as the Sette but it's far quieter! Marc

[@tsatsmana]

@@Wholelattelovepage Mark thank you so much you for the info, I really appreciate it and I will definitely take it into consideration especially since these two are priced the same here.

[@a.c.2659]

Love the energy, earned a subscriber.

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Awesome! Thank you!

[@MahdiGholipoor-u2x]

Hi, thanks for perfect video. Is using a puck screen recommended? How can it has an effect?

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hi user, Thanks for the question. Some like to use puck screens. They can help keep the group head cleaner and may help distribute water more evenly over the coffee puck. I personally do not use puck screens.

[@Oldschool991]

Great knowledge sir🎉 huge respect 🙏🏻

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hey SG, So nice of you - thanks for the comment! Marc

[@Oldschool991]

@@Wholelattelovepage its my pleasure 🙏🏻 ☺️

[@Vusseyv881]

Hi very informative one question I’m timing my extraction when can I tell when it is done? Am I looking for clearish water at the portafilter? Thanks

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hi V, thanks for the comment and question. In basic timing you're looking to finish at a 1:2 ratio by weight in 25-30 seconds. So double the weight of coffee used in that 25-30 seconds.

[@seafox232]

Great video - hats off to this dude!

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hey seafox, Thanks for the comment! Marc

[@FatNorthernBigot]

Thank you! I'm all ears!

[@Wholelattelovepage]

You're so welcome! Marc

[@stephenjenkins1102]

Another great video Mark, thank you. I have a question about timing my shot, my machine has quite a long pre-infusion, when do I start timing?

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hi SJ, You are welcome! When you get into long pre-infusions, flow profiling, etc. you're kinda beyond using timing. Still relevant for sure but it's time to let flavor be your guide. When I'm doing higher level extractions I tend toward using 1st drip to start timing. It's really just a reference point that only means something to you and your variables. For instance I often use very long low flow pre-infusions on fresh from roast specialty grade coffees. I may not have 1st drip until 15 seconds after pump on. No way my extraction will complete by 25 seconds after pump on. I'm often over 40 seconds total from pump on. Hope that helps! Marc

[@stephenjenkins1102]

@@Wholelattelovepage thank you so much Marc, sorry for the spelling error, helped a lot as usual.

[@Wholelattelovepage]

You’re welcome! No worries on the spelling. C or K it sounds the same!

[@Edu1923]

Great, great video

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Glad you enjoyed it - thanks for the comment! Marc

[@koenvuurst]

Great video! I dialed in and i am getting around 18 -23 seconds for my pull. I weigh around 18 grams and aim for dubble the output; 36-38 grams. Only problem i run into is pressure, im not getting enough pressure from my machine, i have the d’longhi la specialista prestigio and using medium roast 100% arabica beans from my local barista shop. Only way i get my pressure up is by using more beans so the basket is fuller. Any suggestions?

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hi k, Thanks for the comment. Sounds like your grind needs to be a hair finer. 18-23 is on the short side of timing. A finer grind will increase the pressure and shot timing. Marc

[@martinmarkv9078]

Hi Mark and thank you for the excellent video. I'm new to espresso making and unfortunately can't produce good espresso with a lot of crema like yours. I bought Gaggia Classic from 1999 modded to 9 bar. The flow is fast and washed out in the end. The coffee is bitter or very soar ( tried a few different arabica and robusta types). Using non pressurized portafilter with two holes in the bottom. I'm waiting 20 min to be sure that the water is heated, but i don't know what is the temperature. Do you think there is an issue with the coffee machine itself ( haven't experimented with grind sizes yet - they grind it in the cofffe shop for me). How can i produce a lot of crema? Will changing the portafilter with bottomless and adding a puck screen will make a difference? Unfortunately my old basic coffe machine with pods makes more crema and tastes better. I know that there are a lot of variables but as a proffesional , what would you suggest in my case?

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hi mm, Your most likely issue is grind size - getting the grind dialed in is critical! Flow that's too fast means the grind is too coarse. There might be an issue with the machine but think that's unlikely if you have enough flow/pressure to wash out the coffee. For temperature, 20 minutes is more than enough to fully warmup the machine. 10 minutes is plenty but do keep your empty portafilter locked gently into the group when the machine is warming up so it warms up as well. I recommend getting your process down with stock equipment before using a bottomless, puck screen, etc. For temperature, with the machine warmed up push the brew switch with the PF off and let the water flow (flush) for about 5 seconds. Keep an eye on the brew ready light. It will turn off during or shortly after the flush. When it turns back on 10-20 seconds later immediately attach the PF and pull your shot. Brew water temp at that point is about 200F/93C - perfect for a medium roast coffee. Again, I believe the main issue is your grind size. If using pre-ground coffee you'd likely be better off using a pressurized filter basket in the machine. When you can, purchase a good espresso grinder and grind whole beans fresh right before using. Here are some lower cost high quality grinders that work well with the Gaggia Classic: Varia VS3: www.wholelattelove.com/products/varia-vs3-grinder?variant=42828495224886 Eureka Mignon Facile: www.wholelattelove.com/products/eureka-mignon-facile-espresso-grinder?variant=32966051037238 Bezzera BB005: www.wholelattelove.com/products/bezzera-bb005-automatic-grinder?variant=43022944108598 Hope that helps! Marc

[@chuckroast1000]

4:21 working with a brand new Gaggia classic pro. Opus grinder. On my 10th try and no matter what beans I use, the espresso is pretty much undrinkable. Very bitter and bad taste. Any suggestions? Thanks

[@leumas75]

Could you please recommend a scale or two that isn’t a wallet-buster like the $250 Acaia in the video? Thanks!

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hi Stephen, Most any scale that can measure to 1/10 gram will do. If you want to grind into and weigh portafilter and coffee dose together be sure the scale has the capacity to tare the weight of your portafilter. A lot of cheaper scales can't handle that. This Brewista scale can: www.wholelattelove.com/collections/scales/products/brewista-smart-scale-ii Marc

[@piplup10203854]

I haven't a clue how much coffee I use in an Aeropress, I use two scoops of a 1/8 cup 30ml scoop and just fill it up with water at the top. I don't know if that is a single shot or a double shot but what is the difference? You mentioned and suggested to use a double shot filter basket and that the traditional is 14 grams but today is 16-20 grams and went for 18 grams. Should I just get a scale and use that with the aero press? I am moving this month and I am looking to get my first espresso machine but I get confused with all the technical stuff and the lingo 😵‍💫 it makes my head spin.

[@calangolima]

You are great man!

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hey CL, Happy to help! Marc

[@michaelcobb6431]

Thanks! Very helpful for a beginner like me. One question: I have both double wall and single wall filter baskets. I typically use the double wall because the single wall always tastes too strong. I have to grind so fine to prevent it from brewing too fast. Should I only use single wall or is double wall just as good which slows down the brew time even at a less fine grind size to get the taste right? Hope that question makes sense...

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hi Michael, you are welcome - happy to help and thanks for the question. Sounds like you're using a Breville (aka Sage)? They refer to the standard non-pressurized filter baskets as single wall and pressurized baskets as dual wall. Dual wall pressurized baskets are most typically used with pre-ground coffee - coffee you did not grind yourself. They're a bit of a cheat using the basket to create the restriction needed for the espresso brewing process rather than the grind size of the coffee. The espresso they produce is almost always of lower quality than that produced by a non-pressurized single wall filter basket loaded with properly dialed in freshly ground coffee. If you have a grinder and are willing to take the time to dial in your grind size I would definitely use the non-pressurized single wall filter basket. Hope that helps! Marc

[@cav7342]

Question Please - If I have a double shot pull tine of 30 seconds, should I have a single shot pull time of 15 seconds, or is the pull time always the same regardless of the dose? Great Video - Thanks!

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hey cav, Basic shot timing is the same for singles and doubles. At first glance that doesn't seem to make sense. But single shot baskets have fewer holes so the flow rate is lower. Marc

[@cav7342]

Thanks very much, Marc. I didn't know that! I really appreciate your reply.

[@Wholelattelovepage]

@@cav7342 My pleasure!

[@randydaumar7155]

Thanks, Phil!

[@lloyd9673]

Hey I have a question. I’m having 16g in and 32g out in 28-30secs but still it’s very sour. Should I increase the water out? Or I should add more coffee to my dose. Thanks

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hi Lloyd, Sour generally indicates under-extraction. But maybe it's in the character of your coffee? Any chance you are using very fresh from roast beans? Brightness inherent in those might be interpreted as sour flavor. Not knowing machine etc, Some things you could try: increase brew temp, increase coffee dose, if you have pre-infusion use it and/or increase PI time, if you have flow control use a very long low flow rate start to the shot so first drip happens at ~15 seconds then return to a little below stock flow rate. If doing that you'll want to decrease grind size a bit as well. Hope that helps! Marc

[@schan562]

Can different coffee beans have different grind sizes despite brewing an espresso shot?

[@Wholelattelovepage]

For sure! For espresso, grind size is critical and needs adjustment for bean type, changes in dos weight, as Beans age and more

[@MunkiiYebee]

I have the Mekanika Max like in the video. The vertical space between the portalfilter and drip tray isn't great. I am worried that adding scales will mean the measureing shiot glass won't fit. WDYT? I cannot afford the Acaia scales 🙂

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hi MY, There's 3.75" clearance from drip tray to portafilter spouts. Acaia mentioned fits NP. While it does not have all the features of the Acaia Lunar, this Hario scale will fit and is more affordable: www.wholelattelove.com/products/hario-v60-drip-coffee-scale-timer Marc

[@carlosmontoya7658]

Hi Mark, great videos. I been using the Breville Barista Express and I just got the Mechanika and for the grinder the Eureka Mignon Specialita. Im currently using Lavazza Super Crema. I got from you guys Maromas Orphea Whole. What grinde setting can you recomend me for those beans?

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hi Carlos! Nice setup and thanks for the comment and question. As I mentioned in the video, unfortunately I can't tell you what grind size to use. Your variables like coffee dose weight, filter basket used, coffee age, brew temp, etc are likely a little different than mine would be. Follow the steps in this video to dial in to a grind size that works for your variables. From there keep in mind grind size is not set and forget. If you change coffee type or other variables it will need slight adjustments to produce the best possible espresso. Marc

[@sinisazaharic3537]

Hi there. I’m using rocket appartamento tca coffee machine and varia vs3 grinder and when I use 18g dose I get out 36g in about 25-30s but I only get around 30-40ml of coffee. Should’t I get 60ml for double shot espresso?

[@arturog7858]

thanks for the information

[@Wholelattelovepage]

You bet! Marc

[@jinwooahn8505]

Hi! I am using flow control, When using flow control and lighter roast, should I fully open the flow control before measuring?

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hi j, Thanks for the question. Would help to know what make/model machine you are using. On most Profitec and ECM machines with flow control opening the FC all the way will produce a higher than stock flow rate which is rarely used. It gets really high, like 3x normal stock flow on those machines with rotary pumps. When dialing in your grind size it's best to use the machine's stock flow rate. On all Profitec and ECM machines you get the stock flow rate by opening the valve 1.25 turns from the fully closed, no flow position. Once you've dialed in your coffee at that flow rate you can experiment with other flow rates and see how they change the flavor. A common profile for lighter roast specialty coffees (especially if within a couple weeks of roasting) is to start with a very low flow rate initially at about a quarter turn open. Once you see 1st drip at about 10-15 seconds from pump on open the FC to 3/4 turn open for a medium flow rate. The low initial flow rate allows the fresh from roast coffee to off-gas locked up CO2 and reduces bright/acidic flavors. When using flow profiles with low initial flow rates you may need to adjust grind a little bit finer than what you dialed into initially. When using this low flow start know that it's not unusual for your extraction timed from pump on to be much longer than the standard 20-30 seconds. 45 seconds total timing is not unreasonable. Hope that helps! Marc

[@sue431]

I have another question I have a rancilio silvia and wondering if it is necessary to back flush? If yes, what do i need to backflush? Is this item correct for my machine - Blind Basket Insert for Backflushing - 58mm

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hi Sue, Yes the Silvia should be back flushed. I believe they ship with a circular piece of rubber that will sit in the double basket for back flushing. If you don't have the rubber then you do want a 58mm blind basket like this: www.wholelattelove.com/products/blind-filter-basket-backflush-disc-stainless-steel General recommendation is plain water back flush 1x per week and back flush with detergent like Cafiza every 120-150 brew cycles or 1x per month whichever comes first.

[@sue431]

If a scale is so important. Can you recommend one under $100? or even under $75? thx

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hi Sue, Here's our current scale selection with prices. The Brewista has excellent reviews: www.wholelattelove.com/collections/scales Marc

[@wojtekgaudnik2847]

I have two questions. First, when using pre-infusion for 5 seconds, should I include this time in the total brewing time, or should I start counting from the first drops? Second, with the same variables, I am getting a brewing time (including pre-infusion) ranging from 37 seconds to 45 seconds. Is this correct, or should I focus on the preparation and packing process?

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hey w, Including pre-infusion time is up to you. Remember shot timing is useful as a reference to your extractions only. They don't mean much if you're comparing with someone else who has different variables. Longer timing is not unusual. Especially if you include pre-infusion time. 45 seconds is on the long side but not out of the question. More important than timing is how does it taste? If over-extracted and bitter I'd go a little coarser with grind to speed up the extraction. Hope that helps! Marc

[@brianharman82]

This is exactly what we ended up learning, early on we were so focused on the 25-30 second shot that we missed out on great coffee. We use 23g in a 25g Pullman basket and get 45g of espresso in 40 seconds. It was by accident that we actually tasted (latte) the longer running shot and realized it was amazing! So don't get hung up on the time, just taste everything and you'll be surprised at what you may actually like.

[@jarivesterinen]

I just bought a refurbished Rancilio Silvia and the brew time is around 15 seconds, grinder set to 10. No creama. If I grind any finer the porta filter overflows even without tamping, so too fine. I’m stuck, any ideas would be greatly appreciated.

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hi j, What make/model grinder are you using? 15 second extraction indicates grind is too coarse. Perhaps the grind size adjustment on your grinder does not have the precision required for espresso. Going from 15 seconds to choked with a slight grind size adjustment is unusual. If lacking precision, you can try using more coffee to slow down extraction. Hope that helps! Marc

[@ericdoray8140]

i've been using a breville Infuser with a baratza virtuoso for a few years without a good scale. 6 months ago, I brought a better scale with a mignon grinder. ah better. i am trying to focus more on ratio of < 4. when I do, way over extracted. I keep lowering the dose amount and still over extracted. I feel like missing something very basic. any thoughts? btw, love all of the videos..

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hi Eric, Thanks for the comment! I think I understand? You were doing brew ratios of greater than 1:4? That's really high for espresso! If so, not surprised you are way over extracted. Too much water going through your coffee. I'd pull way back to a 1:2 ratio. As I recall the infuser uses a smaller capacity filter basket. So if using say 15g ground coffee go for a finished weight in cup of 30g and adjust your grind so you reach that weight in ~25 seconds. Also, use the non-pressurized (single wall) double shot basket if you are not already. Hope that helps! Marc

[@marco10169]

Awesome!

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Glad you think so!

[@sjorlando7282]

Mark I just got a new Home Machine. How much do you charge for a zoom session since i live in Florida.....?

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hi Steve, How does free sound? You can book a 1 to 1 zoom session with one of our coffee experts using our CoffeeCast service right here: www.wholelattelove.com/pages/coffeecast Marc

[@CarloLeonKolega]

How much time for a 9g single espresso? Im strugling with crema on my espresso, bearly any, even when the coffe is runing slow on fineer settings. Bad coffe? bad machine? I tried different coffee already

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hi CLK, Thanks for the question. Basic extraction timing is the same for singles and doubles. Lack of crema may be due to type of coffee used. Not all coffees produce a lot of crema. If looking for good crema producers try traditional Italian style bean blends like Lavazza Super Crema or other blends with some Robusta coffee in the mix: www.wholelattelove.com/products/lavazza-super-crema-whole-bean-espresso-coffee

[@darkkai]

I have a breville touch and locally roasted beans. What do I do if I am getting 2oz in that 20-30 second range but I am getting in a shot in the upper 40's to lower 50's grams in that time for ~17 grams of espresso.

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hi d, thanks for the question. That's a 1: 2.3-2.9 brew ratio which is perfectly acceptable if you like the flavor. The "normal" espresso brew ratio is 1:2 but some people like it higher and some coffees might taste better there. As you're weighing your output I'd pay no attention to liquid volume output. If you want to bring the ratio down with the same shot timing grind a hair finer or start with a little more ground coffee. Hope that helps! Marc

[@lailanis1]

Does dialing in 36g (double shot espresso) is made for one cup or 2 cups? Let's say you wanna do 2 cappuccinos, is 18g espresso on each cup enough really? I usually use 14g basket and dial in 28g shot to make my cappuccino, so I feel 18g shot won't be enough to make a good cup of cappuccino

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hi l, really up to your personal taste and how coffee forward you want your cappuccino to be. Personally, I prefer a double shot capp.

[@bullet7866]

Top video

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hi b, Thanks for the comment! Marc

[@PursuitPerfectSystem]

Thank you

[@Wholelattelovepage]

You're welcome

[@mannymatias3098]

Does the 20-30 second target apply regardless of your brew ratio (ie. whether your using a 1:2 or 1:3 ratio)?

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hi MM, yes basic timing stays the same but you can and should adjust to suit your taste preferences.

[@Mikecheck121]

Are you looking for a shot weight that is twice that of the grind weight?

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hi Mc, Yes! That's a 1:2 brew ratio like 17g ground coffee in portafilter resulting in 34g espresso in cup. Note it's difficult to use liquid volume in milliters to derive a weight in cup. The 1:2 brew ratio is just a common starting point. you may find you like a particular coffee at a different ratio. Marc

[@foshiro]

Hi Marc, I’m new to coffee and been experienced some challenges! Having fun though. I am just in the finest possible grind size but still getting around 20s extraction. Any hint where I am falling on Dialing in? Espresso also doesn’t get much crema!😢 Thanks for the video and an answer! Cheers

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hi f, Would help to know what grinder you are using. Some just don't grind fine enough. Is it a grinder intended for espresso? If at 20 seconds, then you need a finer grind. If you are certain you are at the finest you can try a higher dose of coffee to slow it down. Marc

[@foshiro]

Thanks for prompt reply Marc. Im using a Eureka Dolce Vita, and a Pro500. It should produce good espresso and fine grounded coffee. Surely I’m missing something rather than experience 😅😅😅 im at 20g coffee already. And pressure is not picking up as it should (did a test with blind basket and is all fine with machine!!). Any clue ? Thanks a lot

[@foshiro]

Thanks for prompt reply Marc. Im using a Eureka Dolce Vita, and a Pro500. It should produce good espresso and fine grounded coffee. Surely I’m missing something rather than experience 😅😅😅 im at 20g coffee already. And pressure is not picking up as it should (did a test with blind basket and is all fine with machine!!). Any clue ? Thanks a lot

[@Tonyanagnos]

Freshness on your coffee can make a huge difference

[@joetacchino4470]

Hello! Having trouble dialing in my shot timing. I have a scale with an automatic tare function and timer which starts going as soon as the espresso hits the cup. Given that the recommendation Mark makes is 25 seconds from the time the pump starts, should I adjust down to say 20 seconds as an ideal shot time? Using the same 18 gram dose with a Eureka Zero on ECM machine.

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hi joe, Thanks for the question. Basic shot timing is 20-30. If your ECM has a rotary pump first drip will come faster than on machine with vibe pump. Keep in mind shot timing is just a reference. So if you pull a shot at 20 from first drip and it seems sour/under-extracted you likely want your grind a little finer. If pulling at 30 and seems bitter/over-extracted grind should probably be a litter coarser to speed it up. Marc

[@joetacchino4470]

@@Wholelattelovepage Thanks Marc. It's a Casa V.

[@Wholelattelovepage]

@@joetacchino4470 My pleasure. Guessing you know but JIC Casa V is a vibe pump machine. Marc

[@CaptBadLad]

My machine (Lelit Victoria) vibrates too much, so the scale does not work so great. Any tips for a work around?

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hi SH, What kind of scale are you using? I've used tons of vibration pump machines with scales and that's never happened. Is your pump in contact with the housing inside the machine? If you're comfortable doing so I'd open the machines up and see what's causing the excess vibration. If no resolution there maybe try a small cloth, towel etc under the scale to reduce vibration. Marc

[@CaptBadLad]

@@Wholelattelovepage Hi Marc, thanks for your reply. I bought the Timemore Basic Pro (so that I could also measure the flow rate). Now this expensive scale is only being used to weigh coffee beans before it goes into the grinder, which is for sure a waste. I think I should consider opening my machine, cause even some coffee cups tend to vibrate off to the side.

[@Wholelattelovepage]

@@CaptBadLad My pleasure! Extra vibration is often caused by something like the pump or a pipe in the machine making contact with the case. Might be a super easy fix! Marc

[@CaptBadLad]

@@Wholelattelovepage I found a "fix", which might be useful for others who will come across this issue in the future. The Timemore basic pro is insanely sensitive and just go whack when something is touching the side of the scale. I moved it about 0.5 cm away to the side, and now I can measure it perfectly (weight and flow rate).

[@netlawman2001]

Does your 20-30 second timeline include or exclude pre-infusion? I have a breville oracle touch which has a non changeable pre-infusion time of about 10 seconds.

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hi NL, Thanks for the question. Are you certain you cannot turn off or adjust the pre-infusion time on the Oracle? It's been 5+ years since I've used the Oracle but I'm fairly certain PI can be turned off or time adjusted. When I do higher level extractions I tend to reference 1st drip as a starting point for timing. But, that varies a bit. Say I'm running a long low flow pre-infusion on a very fresh from roast specialty coffee. I might not have 1st drip until 15 seconds after pump on. On top of that, I've likely already dialed in the coffee using a normal extraction and in the case of a long low flow start I've probably made the grind a little finer than what's used for a normal extraction. Running shots like that I'm well beyond thinking about time - total time from pump on often exceeds 40 seconds. For a basic dial-in in your situation I'd move your target time to the higher end of a 25-35 second range. But of course taste the espresso and adjust as needed! Hope that helps! Marc

[@netlawman2001]

@@Wholelattelovepage . Unlike the Oracle, the Oracle Touch does not allow adjustments to pre-infusion. . I will stick with 35 or so seconds including the 10 second pre-infusion per your suggestion. I am also considering on moving from the OT which I have had for almost 3 years to an ECM, Lelit or Decent machine.

[@jacksolo3012]

Hi Marc, I recently got a profitec pro 500,upgrading from single boiler delonghi machine. My grinder is breville smart pro. Pulled couple of shots, and I noticed the brew pressure is not reaching even 8bar on the dial. Tested with blind basket, machine shows rightly about 10bar. Is it my grinder too coarse? Also I'm using my leftover coffee aged about 2+ months old.

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hi M, yes, sounds like your grind is a little too coarse if you want a higher brew pressure during an extraction. Marc

[@jacksolo3012]

@@Wholelattelovepage thanks Marc, just got a scale and at setting of 3 on the smart pro, 18g in and 40g out in 22sec.. Seems like some gap in grind settings..

[@sue431]

In regards to the scale which one under $100 or which ones can you recommend that would fit my portafilter on it to weigh it? thx

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hi Sue, Here's our current scale selection with prices. The Brewista has excellent reviews: www.wholelattelove.com/collections/scales Marc

[@pearlosibu]

If you have less than $100, look into manual grinders

[@KellyanneGill]

Single dosing is the best way :)

[@Bowser558]

Do you also extract 1:2 ratio for 25secs from pump on for milk based drinks?

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hi there. Great question. Some people use different recipes to make a coffee stand out a little more in milk-based drinks, but once I get my espresso dialed in to my liking, I will use that recipe for all drinks.

[@RubbingPotatoes]

Are you sure he’s using a non pressurized basket ? I thought those have an open drip bottom, instead of the two funnel thingies

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hi RP, 100% using a non-pressurized filter basket. Spouts on the portafilter do not indicate pressurized filter basket. Here's a video covering the difference in filter basket types: kzbin.info/www/bejne/rF6con2YoqiaebM Marc

[@163andyc]

I was always told not to fill the hopper with beans, only the amount needed for your shot.

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hi andy, Thanks for the comment. Yes, bean hoppers are not the best place to store beans! Depends on how particular one is but single dosing using only the beans needed is an option. There are grinders made specifically for that purpose. Marc

[@-Vee_]

Why every time I switch my beans from light to dark roast I need to grind finer for espresso to be able to build the pressure when everywhere it’s says it’s supposed to be opposite.

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hi Vee, there are other variables involved that may have an effect. Like if you change the dose weight of coffee grind size will need to change, as coffee ages grind will change. Are your light roasts fresher than the dark? As coffee ages it generally needs to be ground finer. Keep in mind grind size is never set and forget! Also general guidelines are just a guide. Best thing is to dial in your grind size to match your variables. Marc

[@-Vee_]

@@Wholelattelovepage I do single dose and usually go with 19g. Puck prep, no channelig. Shot always look good. I’m roasting my beans so coffee is very fresh. I just notice every time I change the beans from light to dark roast I have to grind finer. Theoretically it’s should be opposite

[@callmehank88]

Why am I hearing beganers? Cool video though.

[@evilmrx5837]

...because the rest of us are too. 😊 Honestly... Mark could be saying ‘cah-fey’ or ‘esprEEsso’ and I’d absolutely forgive it. 🙃 I’ve learned so much from your videos over the years Mark, thank you.

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Lol - it's a local accent thing that pops through every once in awhile 😜

[@anotherguycalledsmith]

@@Wholelattelovepage Hi, Marc, this is NOTHING in comparison to these guys in Northern Ireland… I saw a video the other day, and they were having a strong “e” instead of “i” damage that would even have such a strong impact that you almost did not know what they were talking about ;-)

[@Wholelattelovepage]

@@anotherguycalledsmith Lol! So long as someone is understood - that's what matters. Marc

[@hatchetjack1031]

I'm a beganner!

[@sidzeret]

My beans are ground extremely fine and few drops of espresso drips now Is there any fix?

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hi there. Sounds like maybe you have ground TOO fine, thus creating too much restriction. Try coarsening your grind size and hopefully that should work.

[@sidzeret]

@@Wholelattelovepage thanks for reply Is there anyway to use the one that is already ground in my espresso machine ?

[@tictocbang7443]

Mark, could you please narrate every film?

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Lol, narrating nature docs is my second career choice! Marc

[@nickdual]

I subscribed

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hey nd, thanks and welcome to the channel! Marc

[@nackedgrils9302]

I'm beginning to think that it's extremely difficult to make great espresso unless you have thousands of dollars to spend on fancy equipment. Unfortunately, I'm quite poor and paid a little more than $1K for my whole entry-level setup (Eureka Mignon Facile + Rancilio Silvia with a PID) and, after more than a year, I'm a little disappointed. Even though I order beans directly from reputable specialty roasters for diversity and freshness and used to use the scale every morning to develop a good intuition when it comes to how long a shot takes to extract and what the flow must look like, I was never able to make a shot that had the same nuance and depth of flavour as the demo shot the guy who sold me my machine made me. He had a grinder that sells for twice the price of my whole setup (this thing is more expensive than my car) and used my machine for extraction. The only explanation I can come up with is that there is such a world of difference between a $500 grinder and a $2500 grinder but I find it hard to believe. Now that I'm writing this, I realize that the problem might also be the water quality. I'll try cleaning my machine and buying bottled water as a test but still... I remember buying bottled source water when I first got my machine and didn't really notice any difference when I switched to filtered tap water.

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hi NG, Don't get discouraged - you can do it! Grinders do make a difference but the Facile should be able to grind a decent shot. Between your grinder and the Silvia you should be able to get something good. Not sure if you have an original Silvia with PID mod or the Silvia Pro dual boiler with PID out of the box. Dirty machine can cause problems so cleaning couldn't hurt. Water quality does matter so if your local water has issues using better water could help. Some other tips: Good coffee puck prep. If your grind is clumpy out of the grinder stir it up. Nice level firm tamp. Work with your brew temperature. Do a short flush before pulling your shot and look for smooth water flow. For brew temp its cooler for darker roast and hotter for lighter roasts within the coffee brewing range of 195-205F. So 200 for a medium roast and 2-3 degrees either way for the others. Follow the timing and yield in this video. After your extraction take a look at the coffee puck. If there are holes in the surface those indicate channeling and a deficiency in coffee prep in the filter basket. Hope that helps! Marc

[@nackedgrils9302]

@@Wholelattelovepage Thanks a lot for the detailed tips Marc! I do have an original Silvia with the PID mod but I don't toy around with temperature much, 103ºC seems to be the sweet spot no matter what beans I put in because I'll sometimes get bitterness if I go above that and anything below tends to be a little weak in the cup. The temperature drops 8-30 degrees during extraction depending on grind size, so it's my current understanding to set the temperature a little higher than what I would brew at since it dips so much. Maybe I should experiment more with temperature... Guess I'm a little bitter because I come from the tea hobby where the quality of the leaves and water plus your technique account for about 90% of the results while the expensive handmade clay teapots and pour-over kettles add a little bit to the experience, you can do very well without whereas the fancy expensive stuff is imperative with espresso! Still, I've come a long way from my cheap Breville and pre-ground coffee beans hahah.

[@bloodandbonezzz]

5:26 essentially those without a scale have a scale issue… get it? Skill issue but scale?… I’ll show myself out now.

[@TheRealEnrique1]

Still debating a scale….

[@jesseobrien5864]

❤

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hi JO, Thanks a whole latte for the ❤️ Marc

[@alexcalde4422]

18X 2 IS 36 why 38 ?

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Cut the shot a hair late and ended at 1:2.1 ratio instead of 1:2.

[@louisburley1597]

This was nice but I’d emphasize a WDT tool. That will make a huge difference

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Thanks for the comment. Yes, was staying a little basic here but WDT is very useful - especially if grinder is throwing clumpy boulders! Marc

[@Hitngan]

Beganer

[@RyanOnDrums]

If it takes over 30 seconds adjust grind coarser? Am I hearing this right? 😂 I think you need to reshoot the video. If someone’s shot is coming out at 35 seconds and they ain’t happy with it, they are gonna hear this. Stop the video. Run downstairs then adjust coarser and get worse results.

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hi ROD, Thanks for the comment. This is basic beginner level dialing in - types of coffee used here are likely to be over-extracted at 35.

[@JulioSilva-mt4rw]

🤣