BEST Lever Action Cartridge - .30-30 vs .45-70

[@paulegerold]

I couldn't decide between the 30-30 and 45-70, so I got both! Both Henrys, love them.

[@66smithra]

Bingo!

[@rogerj.fugere3570]

Good decision.

[@DouglasBlair-vv4je]

You did the right thing

[@MAG-li5jo]

LOL, I am deciding which Henry to get next. I have the 357 Mag Big Boy brass lever action rifle.

[@cracker3924]

Like a boss 😊

[@lawrencelewis1036]

I purchased a Ruger No.3 in 45/70 years ago from an elderly gentleman, that he bought new in1977 He also had the original box. Great rifle!

[@SonnyCrocket-p6h]

for what?

[@user-fl4wn9dn2c]

hang on to it. regret selling my Ruger

[@J.Hunter]

@@SonnyCrocket-p6h What does it matter?

[@DingoDoggie]

Yep. I have the Ruger #1 in 45-70. Balances like a dream. 1 shot 1 kill

[@Freedome-h9z]

Sorry to hear you have a Ruger they SUCK!!!

[@Marvinwalker-ud3yo]

While stationed in Texas while in the army, I became friends with a native who showed me how to hunt " boar" with a 30-30 using 150 grain bullets. His secret was , you stalk the prey, not shoot at 100 yards. His way of thinking was "Any idiot can shoot an animal from 200/300 yards away. A real hunter gets as close as possible before shooting and at closer than 100 yards, any rifle can be effective weapon, plus it's more fun and you don't have to carry a kill a half mile. I never forgot that lesson.

[@galactic-goat]

You stalking it with a truck. How do you keep from carrying it a half mile unless your hunting close to a road. Just Had ta ask. LOL

[@robertjones-iv7wq]

And you have to pack the beast out that half mile.,

[@taasch2505]

Bro I'm out here trying to put food on the table, not play caveman. I'm baiting and popping those suckers and getting back home

[@qskii2365]

@@taasch2505 The point is if someone dont have the luxuries you do - a truck, owned land you can bait on & camp out on - they can still catch their dinner with an outdated calliber. Someone starving can't always rely on a kind land-owner to let them bait. Props to you, that is the easiest way to fill your bellies. But that's the easy way, and you're lucky you can "hunt" like that. Really what you're doing is trapping. I have nothing against baiters, but thinking you're better than someone actually hunting down their prey is ridiculous.

[@qskii2365]

Its like saying plopping a rod in the water with powerbait and catching big trout makes you a good angler when all you really did is drink beer and play on your phone for an hour.

[@MadGreek-y9y]

Anybody remember the .300 Savage? 150gr pointed bullets at 2,700 fps? .30-06 ballistics (circa 1920) in a compact and efficient case in the light and handy Savage 99 - a rifle and a caliber way ahead of their time. I like and own Winchester lever guns - I love and own many more Marlin lever guns - but the “best” classic American made lever gun (sorry BLR) from a perspective of ballistics, ease of scope use, and size / compactness (standard, featherweight, and take down models) IMO is the Savage 99 in .300 Savage (and the later .308 Win). The Savage 99 deserves a seat at the table for this discussion Ron.

[@mmpatriot2170]

I love the Savage 99. I have my grandfathers old 99 in 250 Savage (aka 250-3000). What a sweet old rifle. I’ve hunted with it a few times, but have yet to take an animal with it. Life goal. 👍

[@AlanThomas-hp3fn]

Yes

[@sparky_-mf2cs]

With 308 win. No need for 300 savage...

[@2TrackMind-c6i]

@@sparky_-mf2cs The .300 will do all that the .308 can do, with noticeably less recoil. One might say that the .308 is only more famous because of the military - and - it may be considered over much for deer. The .300 was just about perfect. It is also devastating on boar and black bears. Same can be said of the .30-06, a military round that is considerably over much for deer. Today, we have the popularity of the .223, a varmint round, only popular because of two generations of military use. For combat, the 7.62 x 39, or the .300 Sav are better for practical ranges and cover. Countries are going back to .30 cal or close to it, and charges more like the .300 Savage offered in 1951 at the Amry Ordinance Trials. The ONLY reason the .308 was adopted was because Winchester had the inside track on lobbying. Savage was a small company with limited influence. The reports of the steep shouldered brass .300 sticking in teh actions of full auto receivers has been argued as a falsehood, or, one that Savage could not refute due to limited resources. It is common in the world for officially adopted military cartridges to see mass popularity after enough men have become familiar with that round. It's not because they're the best hunting cartridge.

[@randomdude12370]

Yes! I'm in my 20s and my buddy has one. Got my first hog with it. Nice rifle!

[@clintoncampbell236]

30-30 is still half the price of 45-70 and it’s what I got . So I’m going to stick with it.

[@PassivePortfolios]

It has taken all game in the US, Canada and South America. It was especially popular during the Alaska gold rush. Apparently the bears are tougher now.

[@danhandke5012]

👍💪👍👏🏻👍

[@exothermal.sprocket]

@@PassivePortfolios Nah. Hunters (stalking, reading signs, wind, understanding animal perception) are much less skilled today, hunting land availability is more challenging today, and marketing has created a false concept of hunter range capability. The .30-30 will smash a formidable hole through just about anything with the right load, at moderate ranges. Those willing to hunt at moderate ranges on bigger animals are few.

[@bigdaddy4691]

@@exothermal.sprocket most modern hunters are more casual "shooters" than they used to be. I have a comment in this thread where I bash the people that give me business. I sometimes don't think that many of the people hunting today aren't spending their off seasons shooting varmints, or even target practicing like I grew up doing. My Dad had us out loading .45 cal muzzle loaders at 5 years old. I have one son that can outshoot me. My Dad had two by the time I was 12. My kids are all graduated except the one that can outshoot me. I personally have faced aggressive animals and because the way I grew up, and my personal expectations from the farmlands I grew up on can keep calm and shoot in situations they probably can't. They grew up far away from where I called home. I shot a Fisher that jumped from the top of our hunting cabin at me when I walked in to open it up in the fall. I didn't get nervous, until after. My shooting is more instinctual, and theirs' is more trained. It is definitely because I grew up exposed to the woods every single day. The woods is where I bring them to learn as much as I can teach them.

[@exothermal.sprocket]

@@bigdaddy4691 There's no substitute for natural experience in nature. Being in nature for a couple of days out of the year and spending the rest of the time in subdivisions, city, or semi-rural streets and town does not constitute having a solid grasp of nature's activity, habitat, animal behavior. I personally grew up in a rural community on a small dairy farm and was exposed to all sorts of things that would make the average city person very afraid, whether it was large animals or danger around farm equipment, steep hills, deep water, high heights, etc. So I understand what you mean about having tempered nerves.

[@davidabernathy3197]

I just got back from the Range today and I met an older gentleman who shoots nothing but lever actions. I got to have a good conversation with him about his lever action experience and he was intrigued by my military arm experience. I told him if I were to get a lever action it would be in either of the two calibers featured in this video. it was really cool for two people from two different ages to get along with differing perspectives on firearms.

[@apollow_g1025]

its called grooming youre gonna be a victim bro dont let him touch you

[@FireRescue085]

I’ve had more conversations with various shooters about lever guns and revolvers than any other firearm type.

[@12cm32]

@@FireRescue085 There is a reason lever guns and revolvers are chosen; reliability then repeatability IMO...

[@kennethhowell1272]

None of us know it all and IF we take the time to listen we become more knowledgeable.

[@True70woodsman]

I went back and forth when I decided to get my first Ruger made Marlin lever action. I landed on the 30-30 because I hunt in the southeast and it’s what I killed my first whitetail with. Love the comparison. Great video

[@adioman543]

Just bought my first ever lever action today and I got the Marlin as well in 30-30! Had the same issue of which caliber to go with but after asking around for months i went with 30-30 and hoping to learn how to hunt

[@reelrydor1]

I am a older bowhunter. I run a tiny little micro camper when I'm hunting. I keep a chiappa 45/70 Alaska guide gun loaded on the wall in bear country. Great cowboy story

[@johnwilburn8319]

I'm 61 was raised around old men that went through WWII.Saw one shoot groundhogs out to 400 yards on a regular basis with an open sight 30/40 Krag.I saw another shoot a 36" manhole cover at 1000 yards with open sights on a .45-70-405 and hit it 8 out of 10 times.I think knowing your equipment has a lot to do with it along with training and skill.

[@Larryw-o2k]

number one if ya practice you can do it i can shoot the fire off a cigarette, with a 22 pistol, flipped outa my fingers it a trick ,flip the cig till you can hit a spot ,the.n shoot at that spot till you can hit it e.very time. flip cig at spot shoot at spot ,bullet and cig connect and you never even shot at it simple act of doing the same thing till you get it right made a lot of money on this and other simple tricks my uncle told me many times dont bet on another mans trick 😅

[@aaronwade1940]

1000 yards with a 45-70 is hard to believe

[@chriswatson645]

If he would have said a 45-110 it would be more doable. I've never seen a 45-70 make that kind of shot i won't say it is not possible but i sorda doubt it@@aaronwade1940

[@twintwo1429]

Liar

[@robbieatvic]

This is probably the best comparison vid I've seen, no bias just the basic hunting facts. From a lever action fan I thank you 👏

[@dr.froghopper6711]

I keep hoping to see 35 Remington as an intermediary. It fits in nicely between the two you describe. Good show Señor!

[@barrymantei7795]

358 win. Is superior to the 35 rem.

[@alexandercluster3003]

360 buckhammer is the new 35Rem. Same cartridge basically.

[@robertkubrick3738]

@@barrymantei7795 Less difference than you might think except for trajectory and recoil.

[@fredhagman387]

And the 35 whelen is superior to the 35 rem, and the 358 norma is superior to the 35 whelen​, etc. But each of those "superior" rounds comes with their own drawback, namely recoil..@@barrymantei7795

[@todddavis9437]

Definitely another good lever round excellent brush cutter

[@JohnGriffith-w2w]

The.30-30 has its advantages and one is availability. Another is practicality. The cartridge has been greatly improved by better components and rifles all told it’s still a very impressive cartridge..

[@nohillforahighstepper]

I grew up in northeast South Dakota and never had anything other than a 30-30. One of my uncles actually used a 12 gauge with buckshot for deer. If my memory serves me well, the longest shot I ever took was 60 yards. That 30-30 was more than sufficient for deer at that range. Then I moved to Wyoming. I quickly discovered that my trusty 30-30 was insufficient for almost every type of big game hunting here. Now I have a 7mm Rem Mag that I take elk hunting. My favorite mule deer rifle is a trusty 270 Win. However, if I am hunting dark timber, that old 30-30 still makes the trip... On my hip is a 44 mag, while in the mountains.

[@todddavis9437]

Can't beat 270

[@charlesshoemaker3622]

For me it’s my old 35 Remington, been using it for 40 years on both Whitetail and Black bears.

[@fredford7642]

Good video! I have enjoyed the 45-70 for 55+ years, and have used on groundhogs to moose with alarming results. It does have a substantial arc as far as long distance, but I can keep a 12" group at 600 yards. There are rifles today that can do much better, but ballistics are advancing all the time, but considering the 45-70 is 150+ years old, I hope I will be doing as well when I reach that age.

[@AzoneDefenseLLC]

The new RM 45-70 tactical dark series is bad ass. I’m getting sub-MOA at 100yd with that Hornady 325 grain ftx

[@Mistborn94]

Shooting with a red dot on mine and some 550gr subsonics and I'm getting one hole at 50y. Thing is awesome.

[@Sam-mu5xh]

I heard the ftx bullets do a number on whitetails.

[@ru2yaz33]

Talking with rural folks, who defend their livestock and hunt for meat (not social media weekend whatever...) they talk 30-30 lever action. After the 30-06, 270, and 30-30 are talk about for hunting...the 45-70 and 444 are mentioned.

[@BackcountryHuntingPodcast]

Hello everyone! Thanks for joining tonight. -JvB

[@ryanharris6045]

Thanks, Joseph. You and Ron should tell us where to find those awesome hats you guys have.

[@BackcountryHuntingPodcast]

@@ryanharris6045 They’re Stormy Kromers…. They’re awesome hats!

[@Getoutside.30-06]

@@ryanharris6045 It’s a Stormy Kromer. Made mostly in Michigan’s Upper Peninsula. You just need to know your fitted hat size. It comes with built in ear warmers.

[@ronlafitte6864]

Thank you, Joseph for a real fine podcast! I love my 45/70's and I reload for them. I've got plenty 525 grain Beartooth bullets loaded up, also. That's just in case I encounter a monster somewhere, someday. I don't own a 30/30 but I love my 35 Remington's. Again, thank you for such in-depth looks into both calibers and histories.

[@JeffreyCotle]

Both the 30-30 and 45-70 are both very good. I have used my 94 30-30 all over Alaska. So far2 bull moose and a pile of caribou. Now I live back home in Pennsylvania. My father passed cutting timber. And my winchester 94 3030 is taking deer here as well. God bless. Awsome video.😊

[@zackschooley5858]

I have contender barrels in both 30-30 and 45-70. So I’m live in the best of both worlds

[@kens17761]

I have both and love both. Just always had a soft spot for big bores.

[@Handyman1911]

I’ve got them both! Savage 99 30-30 sporter (16” barrel-built in 1925), & a modern Henry H010 45-70! As discussed, the variability of the cartridges is why I love them both. I spend a lot of time in the high country of southern Colorado, where I keep the Henry loaded with Garrett 540gr superhardcast Hammerheads in case teddy comes along. The super-smooth Savage 99 is my perfect North Texas ranch companion for everything from pigs to yotes to ‘trespassers.’ I’ve taken one white tail with the Savage, and one elk with the Henry, both with Hornady leverevolution ammo. While red-dotted ARs and scoped bolt actions are great, in my humble opinion, 130 year-old tech still works just fine, and good old American tradition never goes out of style! I’m planning a moose/Griz hunt in Alaska and one of the rifles I take will definitely be that Henry! Another great video, thanks Joe!

[@keithaeschleman2045]

Howdy, I'm 72 and just came across your video for the first time. I just subscribed .the stormy kromer did it thanks much

[@lynandhenrymeyerding3392]

The Winchester Model 1886 was also adopted by the US Army. The 45-70 caliber GOVT was also the round used in Gatling guns, most popularly with an Ackles feed. I had a friend who was a range master at the start of WWII at a major army base. They didn't have enough current issue rifles to train all the troops, but they had a whole bunch of old 1886 Winchesters, so they used these to train troops in "heavy calibers." He claimed they had some rifles there with 300K rounds through them that still worked well and shot accurately.

[@exothermal.sprocket]

That's impressive stuff. Nothing quite like the JMB designs. Arguably Miroku makes them better than they have ever been made to date, without respect to a particular safety feature.

[@johnpalmer6822]

Marlin had the 1881 in 45 70 I thought before Winchester had the 1886. I love my lever action rifles. I have then in 22LR up to the 45 90 that one can be a real thumper.

[@exothermal.sprocket]

.45-90 with smokeless power in strong actions, gives about another 250 fps over the -70.

[@worry2much]

I've fired bullet weights from a 259 gr wadcutter to 520 gr flat nose out of my 1885 and 1874 Sharps using both smokeless and black powder. The Sharps is a lot more comfortable to shoot with heavy bullets due to its heavier weight 14 lbs with a Malcolm style scope.

[@stevedriscoll2539]

Good presentation. I went with my Dad to look at some Winchester lever actions. The guy had several 30-30's and a big octagonal barrel Winchester in 45-70. They were all very old guns but in excellent shape. I never forgot that big 45-70. I wish my Dad could have bought it.

[@cpaoutdoors9926]

I remember sitting in the dentist office in 1993 looking at a magazine it said do you have enough gun advertisements from marlin in a field and stream I had one 1895 G a couple days later and needless to say a set of dies and I only keep accurate rifles it’s is still in my possession and has performed flawless taking a black bear and many white tail through the years in Pennsylvania

[@tklube308]

Here in southeast KY, DNR reintroduced elk, and blackbear have found their way up here too. For deer hunting, the 1 in a million chance of winning the lotto for an elk tag, and dealing with bear, i bought the Henry 45-70. Oh, almost forgot, also for the random pissed off T-rex😂😂😂.

[@MrEddienoe]

Or charging mammoth

[@tklube308]

@MrEddienoe that's right, if they get all that weight going in one direction, it'll get interesting if you're not prepared👍🏻👍🏻

[@Larryw-o2k]

live in ky use my 45 70 a lot but gotta watch out for skunk apes

[@dannytravis7118]

Something else you didn't touch on is the laws. Some states like I think Ohio, Indiana and Illinois are primarily shot gun only for deer hunting as far as modern guns and rifles like the 308, 30/30,6.5 Creedmoor or any bottle neck cartridge is illegal. However they allow straight wall cartridges for rifles for instance 45/70,44 magnum, 357 magnum, and 45 long colt. So depending on the laws of particular state or area you might need to have the 4570 to be legal.

[@Larryw-o2k]

have changed law can use strait wall cartridges the 45 70 rides again most shotgun only states have adopted this

[@tkalus5736]

Both great cartridges. The .35 Remington is a good balance between the two. I always wondered why the spiral magazine tube from the old Remington model 14 was never used in modern .30-30s. The patent is long expired and it's design would allow the use of pointed bullets.

[@leveractiongypsy1848]

I have a 1949 Remington 141 in 35 Rem with a 24 inch barrel. Great design with the tube and lots of other things from John Pederson. My gunsmith mentor told me if they ever reissued the 141s they would likely have to be $3-5k due to complexities in the rifle

[@trailblazer632]

I mean box mag leverguns have been around a long time. Still whats the point? By the time the other options with potential for higher capacity or pointed bullets came around lever guns were no longer a military rifle and most states limit hunting rifle capacity anyways and have for a long time. Then of course bullet technology was at a point where for hunting at least pionted bullets were not really necessary. Now with even more modern bullet technology pointed bullets still arent as necessary and even if you insist on them Hornady has the ftx flex tips which are pointed and safe for tube mags. So again the need for a different type of magazine system is kinda moot. And at this point in the game the only thing with more capacity is a semiauto bolt actions are normally limited to around 5rds. Most lever guns have a higher capacity than that.

[@dgoodman1484]

Why would you want a spire point bullet in a 200 yard rifle? Half the reason the 30-30 was popular was the round bullet with a lot of exposed lead so it expanded well at lower velocity. Same with the 35 Remington. 🤷🏽‍♂️

[@trailblazer632]

​@@dgoodman1484 because the 3030 and 35 rem are more than accurate and lethal past 200yrds. Most people just dont shoot them that far

[@leveractiongypsy1848]

@@dgoodman1484 Who mentioned a spire point? I'm a huge fan of 35 Rem and have a nice 1949 Remington 141 that 'could' use spire point but as you said...if you cast for 35 Rem/358 Win / 35 Whelen your bullet selection quadruples....

[@bradleyochs4774]

I have both the 30-30 and 45-70 and I like both of them.

[@buckculler108]

Just have to say it. RIP Ron Spomer, you were a wealth of knowledge and a great outdoorsman that will surely be missed by all that you have touched. 🙏 Thank you.

[@Paul-q3m7k]

Yes ….Rob was a great guy

[@ronalddunne3413]

He's passed away? If so it figures, I've just started reading his articles.

[@buckculler108]

@@ronalddunne3413 They are worth the read. Yes he has passed but please enjoy all the articles and content he has put out there. I love his content. He is a man’s man.

[@vanringo]

Different guy same name.

[@GnarlyCharly1988]

well, that answers my question as to the different host. may he rest well. a wealth of information.

[@whiskey1minute978]

They are both great. 30-30 is a bit more practical.

[@yackson4804]

Not for moose elk and bear

[@heydaddy5326]

@@yackson4804 You dont know what you're talking about. Up here in Northern Canada it's the choice for elk, moose and bear.

[@claytonking8610]

@@heydaddy5326eh, might be what most people use but wouldn’t say it’s the best choice

[@yackson4804]

@@heydaddy5326 yeah I know exactly what I’m talking about 30-30 kills moose fine but it is never the first choice 45-70 is better for moose mostly due to better choices for tough bullets

[@heydaddy5326]

@@yackson4804 You said "Not for MOOSE, ELK AND BEAR". When did these Big game get armors? Also I know there's better calibers out there. But 30-30 WORKS. So yes you don't know what you're talking about.

[@theeddorian]

"In the west" is a big region. The .30-30 was in wide use when I got my first hunting licence about 55 years ago in California. It's the rifle i've used. One fact that "the west" temps the less foresighted to do is to worry about being able to take game at long range. Hardly anyone hunts much in the Great Valley, but the Coast Ranges, San Gabriels, Sierras, Cascades and Trinities are hunted a lot. Long range in the mountains generally means shooting across ravines or canyons, and generally horrible hikes or rides to try and find the deer you shot "at long range." For a brush gun, the .30-30 Model 94 can't really be beat.

[@robertjones-iv7wq]

Yup... Finding & dragging IS A BIG deal, I quit that !@#%^

[@bhager1945]

Great topic. I grew up with a long hex barrel 30-30 that works great. Later in life I started using the 450 marlin which performed really well out to 200 yards. The brute force made quick work of several elk and some deer. Fast forward to now I prefer a model 71 Winchester in 348. My shooter is the browning version produced in 1986. It’s the one I carry in my scabbard on my mule. From deer to Moose it does a nice job and looks the part..

[@BaFunGool]

Via intro, myself hands down the 30.30. as my first rifle, never let me down in deep woods, NY Catskill Mts.

[@regsparkes6507]

A few of us were discussing the pros and cons of just these two cartridges today Joseph, as we sat chatting at our favorite Gun Store. Boy oh boy, this video is going to be welcomed next week when I get back there to ruffle a few more feathers! Thanks for this great information, it`s ( as I said ) sure going to be a source of good information for more chatter.

[@vincentmyers7686]

Don't forget the Marlin 1881! Marlin introduced a successful, well designed lever action chambered in 45-70 five years before Winchester!

[@curtisross6080]

My 1881 Marlin is an excellent shooter and has been taking game for a very long time!

[@johnpalmer6822]

I was thinking I had shot a Marlin 1881 about 35 years ago. But I couldn’t remember for sure. It was a beautiful and smooth action gun. Well as I recalled.

[@willbranson3216]

Another extinct gun that is dead and buried. Stop digging the corpse up.

[@exothermal.sprocket]

@@willbranson3216 I think the tenor of your comment matches the profile picture.

[@brianmurray1395]

Much tighter fit finish not sloppy like the 94

[@johncooper4637]

I have never liked shooting a 30-06 which I had to do in the Army, first with the bolt action '03 Springfield and then with the M1. Hearing the recoil numbers for the 30-30 sounds perfect for me. Thanks.

[@ryanmckenzie583]

I'm liking the new 360 buckhammer

[@tomw4338]

I left the channel for a while and when I come back I find that Ron has apparently found the fountain of youth.

[@mark-wn5ek]

It’s the grape koolaid

[@michaelnelson1911]

You’re a wealth of knowledge, A walking encyclopedia. Thanks for sharing.

[@HVSJR-n5q]

With the “new” weights in bullets today it seems that the 30-30 has gotten a new lease on life. They are both still 200 yds and in caliber rifles.

[@chipsterb4946]

There are a couple of new powders worth mentioning too. LeveRevolution powder consistently shows the highest velocities in .30-30 rifles, sometimes by 10% or more. CFE-223 is behind but also faster than most of the “traditional” powders for these rifles.

[@tykennedy1299]

I definitely agree with the 200 yard thing as I would like to keep it within that distance but my uncle took a cow elk with a 16 inch contender in 45-70 at a little over 300.

[@exothermal.sprocket]

190gr Hawk bullet load from Buffalo Bore, promises to be an mule deer, moose, and elk smasher. But to prove a point about the Hornady 160 FTX, there's a video on this website where a Canadian hunter performed a CNS shot (high shoulder) on a cow elk in a field, 339 yards and it dropped immediately on the spot. Mind you, he'd done a lot of cartridge testing in prior weeks and knew the limits. I personally am not an FTX praiser, as the bullets tend to shed a lot of pieces through gel testing, but the flight characteristics are nice to have.

[@-Zevin-]

Hornady lever evolution rounds in 30-30 still put out over 1,000 ft/lbs in energy at 300 yards and have reasonable drop at that range. You would need a scope to shoot at those ranges, but it's extremely impressive what you can do with a modern 30-30 bullet. On the other end of the spectrum Buffalo Bore has a 190grain hardcast bullet that would be adequate on virtually anything in North America including brown bear and moose. (although you would definitely want to be within 150 with that load)

[@exothermal.sprocket]

@@-Zevin- His impact was about 950 ft-lb energy (1635 fps) at 339 yards (according to his stats and my checking a ballistic calc). 160 FTX didn't exit, but pierced through just under spine high shoulder. Buffalo Bore uses a Hawk bullet in that 190gr load, which is a tougher/thicker jacket bullet with a lead tip. Hawk makes excellent bullets for more calibers than most manufacturers, including many obsolete or hard to find calibers.

[@waynebowman2315]

I always considered the 30-30 an old man's rifle until i bought a Glenfield 30a yrs ago and was very happy with the accuracy and how it works well for deer collecting

[@coldandaloof7166]

Why choose, get both lol. I have never used the 30-30 on anything though because it is not legal here on Ohio,..yet. But that 45/70 has been my go to since the straight wall rifle cartidge law passed here in 2015 and I never looked back. So far that has filled my freezer every year with at least 1 deer sometimes 2 or three. 300 gr JHP does the job just fine. 405 gr hard cast tears the meat up too bad if you shoot length wide through them. But 300 yds is the longest shots we get in SE Ohio in a power line right of way cut through the timber or across a bottom land cornfield at 200 yds.

[@redstedman]

love your hat, even though it is (ha ha) Backwards. you left out 2 better ones. the 99 in 300 savage & the 35 rem in a lever gun.

[@dr.froghopper6711]

I second the 35 Remington in a Marlin 336.

[@fedup3582]

You mean a savage 99 in 308 or 358.

[@fedup3582]

His hat doesn't look backwards to me.

[@bradleysienko72]

It's a Stormy Kromer, and it is NOT on backwards

[@parkerwhite9925]

How the hell does a stormy krohmer even look backwards?

[@larsencarson5465]

Funny, old timers used to take deer 1/4 mile across a deep canyon with 30-30s and 25-35s in this region of Utah and Nevada.

[@firestorm8471]

I have both and the 30-30 is my favorite. I have a Winchester Model 1894 Trapper and an H&R Model 158 . I have taken dozens of whitetail during my 59 years with that H&R . I have a Tasco 3x9 scope on it that I mounted in 1984. I sighted it in to hit 2 inches high at 100 yards. That was 40 years ago, I have never adjusted that scope and it still hits 2 inches high at 100 yards.

[@Traveler-po3oe]

Outstanding video. I still have my grandfather's Win Model 1984 in 30-30. Serial number dates it to 1925. I took my first deer with it, many years ago. I also have 2 Marlin 45-70s. My latest is the dark series. I'm looking forward to trying my luck this year on a deer and elk hunt with the 45-70. Love both rifles and calibers.

[@Firearms_united]

I don't currently own a lever action but I want to get one! Just waiting for the right buy to come along.

[@WillyK51]

If you Hunt, take a good look at the Browning BLR. Light, Sleek and fast, in many modern cartridges, from 22-250/243 to 358/450 Marlin and 7Rem Mag and 300 Win Mag, and a lot of in betweens. If a Classic then there are quite a few older very fine cartridges

[@garrytalley8009]

What about the .35 Remington? That is my preference especially for a brush gun. Nice review.

[@garyweber7139]

I have both. I always have a difficult time deciding which one I want to use, so I sometimes take both. Not both out in the field but on different trips.

[@auburnfolsom]

I'd like to see you do a video on the Winchester 32 Special rifle & cartridge. Always enjoy your videos & information.

[@exothermal.sprocket]

It's slightly more capable than .30-30, but I would not say in a significant way for most uses.

[@SK-xv3hn]

Have both calibers in lever action and 3 others. I reload and my .45-70 loads are more lethal then my .30-30. I use a 44 magnum lever at the range (outback) for target and plinking with. Though at my age it's been years! Great video!

[@charleschwalinski3141]

Bought my first 3030, 40 years ago. I've hunted with it every year since. It's a part of me , just like another hand. Trust it, confident with it. Money cannot buy it.

[@martinwalker9386]

I heard my father tell about shooting a deer at what he estimated to be 400 yards after a man with an .30-06 turned down the shot. He was telling the story to the brother of the man that turned down the shot about 25-30 years after the hunt. My father said he held an estimated 4 feet high and tore out the heart/lungs. Part of the reason I believe his story is that part of the story was how he would vomit after each pass with the knife for 3 to 4 hours. I heard him tell part of the story to someone else and still told about vomiting. At this time he was the captain of the school rifle team.

[@bradwalsh9122]

Me too. I've got both. My old 94 30-30 is great for black bear and caribou. The 45-70 is perfect for brownies and moose. But I need the 270 for sheep and goats.

[@nathanstrickland6508]

I put my Remington 7600 30-06 pump to bed. Three years ago that my parents bought me. For my twelfth grade graduation, in 1992. For thirty years that was my deer rifle. I replaced it with a Henry 45-70 single shot. I wanted to go as old school as possible. No scope no nothing, just iron sights. I love my 45-70, its a great rifle. But i will still pull the old 7600 out from time to time. When i take that old girl out in the woods, in the fall. My dad is right there with me every time. Im never alone with that rifle in my hands.

[@grabbag6314]

35 Rem

[@jeffersonmayes4657]

35 not as popular! But one hell of a round!

[@DavidJones-lw2lp]

Hey JvB what an awesome video, looks like King Ron has a natural successor! Thank you for such a knowledgeable, professional and informative video. Shot my Marlin (Ruger) SBL yesterday in 45-70, it never fails to make me smile! Much love from the UK 🇬🇧👊🏻

[@sailplaneFan707]

The 58/50 was the first ever Metallic cartridges it was used in the Spencer rifle or carbine it was likewise the first lever action ever used in the Army.

[@LibertysetsquareJack]

Spencer is still not a true lever action because the hammer must be manually actuated by the operator for each shot.

[@sailplaneFan707]

@@LibertysetsquareJack yeah I guess that’s true it was more like a falling block or breech loader that way but it had a magazine.

[@douglascampbell7006]

Great video, love both these cartridges but especially the 45-70. Nice work Mr. Benedikt, I enjoy your presentations, you have a good presence n front of the camera.

[@scottcobbley1189]

I have hunted deer and elk with both of these rifles. Elk with 45-70 only. I don’t use scopes on either. I find the 45-70 works best for everything but I use the 30-30 around home,taking a deer off the back porch. Much lighter recoil. I’m older now and the 45-70 is getting pretty heavy though.

[@TheWVgoodguy22]

Excellent thorough analysis 🧐 once again JVB 🤠. Both my youngest brother and my Dad love their older Marlin 336 in 30-30 Win. My Dad has a scope and shoots the 170 grain Federal Power Point and my brother uses iron sights and those LeverRevolution loads and hand loads the same components and powder. I currently sadly don’t have a lever gun, but have wanted for a long time. Now that I live in Ohio after 40 years in West Virginia I eventually need a straight wall cartridge for the Ohio rifle season. I could go with a left hand bolt gun in 350 Legend, 400 L or 450 Bushmaster but I really want a sweet lever gun more. Whether it’s the 45/70, 444 Marlin, 44 Mag or the new 360 Buckhammer. I am leaning toward the 360 L as a middle ground option.

[@t-bfr45-70]

You not be disappointed with a 350 legend but if go for lever gun 45-70 is hard to beat and ammo fairly available.

[@TheWVgoodguy22]

@@t-bfr45-70 glad to hear that you have had success with both

[@michaelhale4041]

I have both. Love them both. I tend to grab my 45-70 more often. But it is the newest of my 2. I would not think twice to carry either.

[@loquat44-40]

You did a good presentation Mr. Benediky I chose 30-30 Winchester since the cost of reloading is less, recoil is less, and I am not hunting dangerous game. Defense on the homestead against the local black bears in FL my 12 ga shotgun or glock 40 with stout loads is what I would use. There are the BLR browning lever guns A partial list of powerful calibers includes 300 Win Mag (4) 300 WSM (4) 308 Win (4) 325 WSM (2) 358 Win (4) 450 Mar (4) 6.5 Creedmoor (4) 7mm Rem Mag (4) 7mm WSM (4 It would seem that a 358 winchester would be a good choice. It is sad that the savage 99 is no longer made. A few were made in .358 also. I also see the 450 marlin.

[@jameskrajnik8976]

The 50-70 was the first cartridge it was black powder adopted by the US government

[@PeterSmith-is8cj]

Thanks Joe, for a very clear and thorough presentation!

[@Magnum_Express]

Popularity aside, the "best" lever action cartridges ever made would be 348 win, or the 338 marlin. Energy levels in the 30-06 range, with projectiles heavy enough for moose and big bears. Lever caliber come and go. 7-30, 307, 356, 38-55, 375win, and so on. But the fact the 45-70 and 30-30 are still around is amazing not just for lever guns, but for a center-fire round in general.

[@Larryw-o2k]

no the best made is the one you have not the one you want

[@Magnum_Express]

@@Larryw-o2k i currently own a marlin 30AS, in 30-30. It's fine. I like it. But if I had to pick one lever gun to use for the rest of my life, probably a Marlin 444 or a Henry Big Boy All Weather in 44 magnum.

[@8551-w5v]

I've taken deer with both but I've taken more deer with the .35 Rem. Thanks for great discussions on your show.

[@scottearnst8152]

I like the 30-06 much more than the 308! Oh shoot, wrong video. I like the 30/30 and 45-70 equally, but my 32 win special stole my heart long ago. Great video thank you!

[@johnvanort3389]

The energy transfer from bullet to animal occurs mostly at the slowest velocity of the bullet. For example if I shoot a razor blade at a million miles an hour, it passes right through the target without transferring much energy. But if you throw a bolder at a target, that target receives all that energy. 🎉

[@William-i3o]

Id go with a 45-70

[@chrisp308]

So 30 06 got it I'm sticking with my 270

[@exothermal.sprocket]

This episode is about lever actions, it's just a whole different set of use cases compared to bolt action.

[@williameisenman9008]

Marlin was 5 years ahead of Winchester in offering a 45-70 lever action with their Model 1881.

[@SilenceDoGood4th]

Growing up in Michigan, everyone's dad had a 30-30 or a 30-06

[@deettarr7094]

Model 71 348 wcf is the best lever action

[@fredhagman387]

Absolutely. Totally superior to the 45-70. The 348 is my "heavy" lever gun after my 35, 30-30, and 7-30 Waters

[@joncook6331]

Great timing! I’ve been trying to decide between 30-30 or 45-70 for my next purchase. 30-30 is more practical for me, but 45-70 is just awesome.

[@rogerj.fugere3570]

I’ve been thinking about picking up a 45/70 single shot, break action. Have you made a decision yet?

[@joncook6331]

@@rogerj.fugere3570 no I keep going back and forth. Plus all the levers are EXPENSIVE

[@exothermal.sprocket]

You'll shoot the .30-30 more often, probably. It's a real peach. It's just as much Americana as the other and it's no slouch by any means. Consider ammo weight and rifle weight as well. Go watch Paul Harrell on the .30-30.

[@roberthyatt342]

The name 1895 is a marketing ploy, and the rifle came almost 60 years after the 1886. There was an actual Model 1895 from Marlin but it was mechanically different and bears no relation to the well known modern version shown in the video.

[@66smithra]

There was a Winchester model 1895.

[@t-bfr45-70]

Yep the only thing they share is the caliber it was meant to be a tribute to the old 1895 when introduced a 336 in 45-70.

[@chipsterb4946]

Good discussion about the potential for kinetic energy numbers to be misleading. I do think that kinetic energy is a useful statistic when you are comparing similar weight bullets, or especially when talking about energy retained down range at 200, 300 or 400 yards. Some cartridges/bullets lose velocity quickly over distance and that multiplier kicks in, showing a big loss in energy.

[@vernonfindlay1314]

The Savage bolt action 30-30 is great as well.

[@sorshiaemms5959]

why bolt when you can lever it waists less energy

[@troy9477]

I love my 336 with the Lyman peep sight. 1.5 MOA or better all day long with factory ammo. Been wanting a 45-70 for years, just because. The 444 Marlin is a nice thumper too, but ammo choices are much more limited. The 265 gr JFN seems to rule the roost there, and Hornady makes FTX for it as well, of course. If i get a 45-70, the BB 405 JFN or the FTX will be the go to loads. If i ever hunt here in the PR of Kalifornia, of course i will have to use the all copper. I love leverguns, maybe because i am left handed. I have 2 nontraditional ones also- Win 88 and Savage 99, both in 308. And of course the 88 is actually a rotary bolt connected to a lever. Always wanted a BLR too, just because. Perhaps in a 7mm-08, because it is a great cartridge. And I wouldn't mind a Win 1895 in 30-40 to go with my Krag. Eclectic, i know. Thanks for all the info, and thanks for including the recoil figures. It helps to be informed

[@keithmiller6277]

I really like both; but that being said, I had a shoulder injury that makes the .45-70 more 5:14 😢painful for me to shoot. The .30-30 doesn't cause as much pain. I don't hun̈t as much as I used to; but I Dad's old '94 Winchester is my most shot centerline rifle. I feel that a 170 grain .30-30 can handle anything on the continent. Granted it might not be the best round for b I g bears, etc; but it can still do what needs to be done.

[@heydaddy5326]

Here in Northern Canada, 30-30 is widely used for all game. Including dangerous/big game. Modern bullets like the Barnes 190grain also help. Don't count the ol dirty-30 out! Just know its limits. It is a proven cartridge that people today seem to underestimate like Big game these days and think somehow have armors..

[@danpowell5286]

I own both, going to add the 35 rem to my lever action collection.

[@PassivePortfolios]

On price and overall performance the 30-30 wins, except for dangerous game. Most of the shots in the East and South are under 150 yards, which the 30-30 is perfectly able to handle. The 45-70 was initially a black powder cartridge but it got a new lease on life with smokeless powder and rifles which could handle the higher pressure. It its share of fans in Alaska and Canada where there are still a lot of grizzly and brown bears.

[@Clayman5577]

Haha - east and southern deer hunters and bear shoot 300 to 500 always have - have you ever seen the agriculture land

[@PassivePortfolios]

Very funny but that's false. Nobody shoots that far in the East and South. Been hunting down here for 30 years so I know all about it. And Ohio, Michigan, Illinois,.Iowa, Indiana are straight wall cartridge states to minimize the ranges at which hunters take shots.

[@PassivePortfolios]

@@FranzAntonMesmer that was the now defunct .375 Winchester. It was too close to the 35 Rem. so it never caught on.

[@PassivePortfolios]

@@FranzAntonMesmer For some reason these mid-bore rounds do not catch on, aside from the 350 Legend, and that is only due to straight wall restrictions in certain states. They kick more than the 30-30 but the additional power is not needed for deer, black bear, hogs. And their range is too short for elk and moose. The 30-06, 6.5 CM., 270, etc. and similar rounds are better options so nostalgia only goes so far.

[@TheWolfsnack]

Yup....I carried a Marlin years ago when I was working in British Columbia mountains....bears and cougars are common.....still my go to hunting rifle for big mulies and moose plus I roll my own.,

[@talkeetna911ify]

I wish they would bring back the 50/110

[@tacticalskiffs8134]

That is the 45-70 curse. Clearly a junior loading for the heavy stuff. With all the large bore 1886s being made these days, it boggles the mind that the 50/110, or a 50 alaskan never makes it on these new models. There are lots of gun racks these days with all sorts of fancy version of levers in them, now that the fad is with us. All identical guns with different furniture. While there are some very obvious missing options.

[@ralphmills7322]

Sorry I've been spoiled, the best lever action rifle in the northeast was the Savage 99, the best chambered cartridge the 300 Savage until eclipsed by the 308 Winchester. The Savage 99 rotary or detachable box magazine allowed the use of spritzer bullets in cartridges more than adequate for white tailed deer, black bear and moose in the back woods and also allow 200-250 yard shots across fields at deer. Recoil is modest and the action smooth as silk.

[@littletom892]

I love my 30-30, be cool to see a video on all lever action calibers and a comparison an purpose

[@foubert45]

The best lever action cartridge is one originally cambered in the best lever action rifle. That is the Winchester 1886 and the 45-70.

[@rogerdesjardins6111]

As a trapper in northern ontario, the 30 30 is the only gun I carry and has harvested a moose every year for me going on 40 years now. Bullet placement is key though.

[@BrianRuzicka]

I bought the marlin 45 70 I love it I have much money so I asked the gun shop guy hey I wanted a lever action bring down anything I hit from bear to deer he said 4570 as my only rifle for hunting it's been great I'm a stocky guy so recoil not to bad

[@larrysayers1377]

I’ve lived in Alberta all my life and haven’t seen a 400lb black bear…yet. But Barnes has come out with a 190gr original for the 30-30 with what appears to be real world velocities on the box for 18” and 24” barrels.

[@heydaddy6817]

Which do you use in Alberta? 30-30 or 45-70?

[@kennethhowell1272]

Joseph, really enjoyed your delve into these 2 popular lever action cartridges. But (at least) in the 30-30 case you owe it to yourself to shoot a TC Contender in 30-30. The reason being is a single shot pistol can shoot Spitzer style bullets. I have a Gen 1 Contender with a 14" bull barrel and am shooting 125gr Spitzer bullets out of it. I realize I'm giving up 6" of barrel compared to a carbine, but the lighter higher coefficient bullet should equal things up. Also interesting the recoil one gets out of a 30-30 pistol as compared to a rifle.

[@RandoCalrisiann]

Great video. It just all depends where you live and the critters ya got there. As for my Ozarks, 30-30 is all ya need mostly. Long shots, go bolt action.

[@Vikingknight2012]

Best cartridge....both, both is good.

[@galactic-goat]

A man can't have just ONE gun.

[@danielcurtis1434]

Technically we first adopted a .58 caliber rimfire cartridge then the “.50-70” centerfire before it was repackaged as the .45-70. However originally we were trying to convert the 1861 Springfield to cartridge firing. We used the same barrels for the rimfire then a barrel liner for the .50-70. However by the time we went to a .45 we decided it didn’t make sense to convert. So most all trapdoor Springfields are of all original manufacturing.

[@drylinedrifter]

This was a great comparison...thanks!

[@joec33]

Great in depth review, please keep them coming !

[@stephenembrey883]

I have a handy rifle single shot in 4570, it weighs about 5 1/2 pounds very easy to pack all day and thick brush and with a little practice is very fast to reload if you would ever need to. I had to put a muzzle brake on it because the recall was just intolerable with the heavy hand loads. With 500 grain bullets in spicy hand loads, it comes very close to the 458 Win Mag; kills anything on one end and Maims on the other.

[@pseudopetrus]

I love both, but really, the 30 30 is more useful to me.

[@trailblazer632]

What makes it more useful?

[@Magnum_Express]

​@@trailblazer632 can't answer for anyone else but I agree with their statement. My reasons being more appropriate for deer sized game, easier to find guns and ammo. More affordable guns and ammo.

[@pseudopetrus]

@@trailblazer632 I shoot it best, very confident with my JM 336.

[@trailblazer632]

@Magnum_Express i mean... theres just as many guns in 4570 as 3030 and honestly while the ammo is more expensive by a few dollars its not really more appropriate for deer than the other... 4570 has lower loads for deer vs larger game.

[@Magnum_Express]

@@trailblazer632 i agree there are more options in the 45-70 these days, it wasnt always the case. the 45-70 almost died out at one point in history. Another issue is alot of 45-70s on the market are historical replicas of trapdoor models or the old 1886 and not designed to shoot modern hot loads that people would want to use to take advantage of the 45-70s bigger case. The 30-30 on the other hand doesn't have that handicap as all ammo is safe in all guns. And in my area 30-30 ammo is far more common and far cheaper. About half the price per box.