Best Samurai Duel? Seven Samurai (1954)... But HE LIED!

[@IWolfofMibuI]

I don't agree this is a draw. They aren't fighting for points but to get a feeling for each other's skill. Kyuzo learned everything he needed to learn from his opponent and since it's just sticks he didn't need to take evasive actions. Once the real swords were out and it was lethal he did everything he needed to. it's actually a really nice bit of character story telling.

[@billdavidson3519]

Exactly correct. Good insight. Sincerely

[@Kodack-ki2im]

That is unless his opponent also didn't take evasive action because 'it's just sticks'......

[@XathexX]

There is also the idea of allowing the villager to save face with his community... He could tell everyone that it was a draw and walk away. The proof was not in the contact. The samurai was calm and exactly matched his timing.. That means he had complete control of that encounter. If the Villager had said well played I will call it done with a draw it would be over and he would be alive with a story about how he fought to a draw.

[@bakters]

Kyuzo sacrificed the other guy's life to his sword. He let him think he'd have a chance, then denied it to his face, so the other guy was forced to challenge him or come off as a coward. This way Kyuzo was clear. That's the meaning of the scene. In actuality, the techniques performed as shown would have resulted either in a double, or in Kyuzo losing.

[@charlie2979]

@Kodack-ki2im The Ronin was trying his hardest. Everyone involved understands this. He couldn't have sidestepped because he didn't have the technical ability to do so. The 'draw' is pure face saving. It's a draw Kyuzo allows to happen.

[@Kodack-ki2im]

03:18 This scene has been edited by whomever uploaded the video and that is the reason for the continuity error. In the original scene, there are additional shots of them sizing each other up and changing positions as they react to each other.

[@mattrozdoba5660]

Yeh. You’re right

[@Ealendir]

I don't understand why you are reviewing a summarized and edited scene...

[@Wien1938]

Firstly, they are BOTH ronin (masterless samurai). Secondly (and more importantly), yes, on the surface the first fight is a draw but to the experienced swordsmen in the scene, the bamboo fight revealed that the first ronin was crude and unskilled. The second ronin does not move because he is not putting the other man to shame in front of an audience, allowing him to walk away with some dignity. The first throws this away by not accepting the rebuke from the more skilled of the two and this pride gets him killed. Everything about the first's stance, nerves and approach reveals the real gap in skill.

[@galaxya40s95]

Yeah, he offered a draw instead of beating the shiz out of the guy.

[@derekmorse8171]

an excellent analysis. I agree totally

[@DavideBaroni]

Same thing I thought, just better said. 🙂 Also, the mocked fight (in which there was no "real" risk) would tell the "wiser" ronin what the opponent was likely to do, as he threw his best technique at the first fight in order to win it and nourish his pride. The older and wiser one knew that it wasn't worth to reveal his best technique at a mocking fight, for if a second, more real attack happens, the opponent would know what to expect.

[@haakoflo]

As others have mentioned, I read this in a more sinister way. I think the experienced guy was as much in control of the social dynamics as the actual swordfights. And it seems his goal was to kill the other guy, and the bamboo fight was just a setup, a way to mock the rookie into forcing a lethal confrontation. One where the experienced fighter would be able to kill the opponent without seeming unjust.

[@DavideBaroni]

@@haakoflo Makes sense... 🙂 My interpretation isn't THAT far, if you consider the last part of my message. I just didn't think of "premeditation", but it makes sense, we don't know what went on between them before the scene, maybe to other one did something offensive enough to make the ronin wanting to kill him. 🙂

[@Bb5y]

The kenjutsu choreographers were Yoshio Sugino (TSKSR) and Junso Sasamori (Ona-Ha_Itto-Ryu)The ronin is portrayed as from the Ona ha Ito Ryu school. The initial stance is Seigan no Kamae that both fighters adopt, and is common in Kenjutsu schools. It used to be taught in Kendo, but in the late 70’s this was adapted to the current chudan no kamae commonly used. Seigan aimed the point at the left eye, to make the sword length hard to define. Chudan targets the throat. The Stances next adopted are Hidari Jodan (peasant) and Waki-gamae(ronin). Waki Gamae is also a stance that is still in modern Kendo. As is Hidari Jodan (however in this scene it is portrayed as from TSKSR not Ito ryu). Waki Gamae is chosen, to draw the opponent in, again difficult to discern sword length and obscured by the body, whilst offering the whole of the head and left side as an open target. This is the ronin applying “Seme” and “Go no Sen”, imposing his will on the peasant to draw him in with false impression of an open target. When the peasant attacks it is for a kesagiri, but impacts the inefficient cutting area of the sword (bamboo). The ronin in contrast cuts with his bamboo sword at mon-uchi. The most efficient part of the cutting area on the blade (last 4 inches). To a classic kesagiri cut which would start at left side of neck and end at right hip, with bamboo he stops at the entry point, with shinken he completes the cut, using bodyweight to cut down the the right hip. By not moving out of the way in the 1st duel, the ronin displays “irimi” and abandonment, the spirit to throw away his life in order to effect the desired cut. This puts him at the correct distance to make an effective cut whilst making his opponent throw an ineffective cut, however there is no need to portray the completion of cut from neck to hip with bamboo, the point is he made a strike ki ken tai no icchi with all the aspects present for yukodatotsu, whilst his opponents technique was not effective at doing so, . This is what the choreographers and Kurosawa were trying to portray, and why the ronin observers and the fighting ronin are all correct that the peasant obviously lost the bamboo fight, if it had been carried out with shinken.

[@ashley-r-pollard]

And this is the answer I would've written too. In Kenjitsu there is no draw; to die at the same time as your opponent is a failure. But as @Bb5y says, Kyūzō was interested in the perfection of the cut, his attacker was not. Hence not a draw. The Japanese Samurai mindset was/is entirely different to a Western one, and it can be hard to interpret the psychology of a fight if one is looking through the wrong cultural lens.

[@KevinJDildonik]

Iirc the actor was also a dancer. So the fact that the swordplay is so close is amazing. He's really just trying to convey the movement. And the movement is perfect. He's so fast on the draw, if you go frame by frame, he could easily block the enemy and counter-strike. He chooses not to. Because that's not the goal of the character. Ridiculous! And if you want more. Watch Seven Samuria while trying to paint a mental picture of the scene. Often, when characters are walking around, reaction shots actually follow the action. Doing this on film, at that time, is ridiculous. Most directors don't bother to do this today. Like when they're watching people pass by on the street. They pick people out and follow them realtime. The shot - reverse shot always respects the actual relative locations and angles.

[@Prometheus4096]

Not a kenjitsu expert but this should 100% as bullshit to me. And regardless of knowing kenjitsu or not, the fact that the samurai changed technique for the second fight means he believed the first fight was actually a draw. Because if it wasn't, and the second fight was there specifically to prove a point on the first fight, why did he change technique? He for sure didn't trust his life on this theory of yours about abandonment and ineffective cuts. If Kurosawa and the choreographer wanted to make a point about the skilled fighter being just in time to prevent himself from being cut if the swords were real, then they shouldn't have changed the scene for the second fight. They should have shown the samurai cutting down the other guy without dodging. And trusting in his own sword to be lethal enough to make the cut he received with the bamboo stick, ineffective. Having the skilled samurai dodge out of the way in the second fight undermines that entire theory. More likely, the skilled samurai didn't want to show his technique in a fake fight. And he wanted a real fight so he could kill. If he had dodged during the first bamboo stick fight, and then they fight with real swords, the other guy would be wiser and he wouldn't just rush in the same way.

[@Bb5y]

@@Prometheus4096 he didnt change technique. He just completed the cut.

[@henryposadas3309]

​@@Prometheus4096​​​ just because this is BS to you it doesnt mean it's BS. Just proves you are not willing listen. The first wasnt a real fight so he fought with the intent of winning by striking with a perfect cut first. What they explained was the point of such matches. Both the old Samurai watching as well as the won who wob knew. The very same thing the two persons in this post knew and the very thing the Kenjutsu adviser advised the director. Naturally in a real fight with swords he would move differently. Skillwise nothing changed. The better swordsman won. What's BS about that?

[@ruprecht8520]

I think Kurasawa and his fight guy intended it to look like a tie. I think the idea was, in the days before you could rewind and study the blows, that there was nuance far more than we'd expect and only the true EXPERTS in the scene see it. This sells the swordsman to the audience as far more advanced than it might look.

[@RabbitxRabbit]

Yes! This is what I came here to say. I always thought Kyuzo was trying to teach his challenger a lesson while still allowing him to save face. But the challenger was too cocky and stupid to recognize it. That, or he just really enjoys killing loud idiots and he lured the other guy in to his death like a pool shark.

[@tyree9055]

A true master never teaches his students all of his secrets, nevermind the public. 🤷‍♂️

[@TheUncleRuckus]

💯

[@chehalem]

@@RabbitxRabbit exactly! The villager's recklessness would at best kill his opponent at the cost of his own life. The samurai wanted him to realize that in a real fight, he'd still die in a draw.

[@jaega4247]

Agreed. He clearly wanted it to be a tie, possibly to save the villagers face and life - but then he should've just accepted a draw and said his goodbyes. Instead he lures the villager into a duel to the death by claiming himself the winner, which makes him seem like quite an a**hole. On the other hand, he may have realized that the villager was quite a piece of sh*t himself after their first match, and decided to help the village get rid of him. The village and family could then take pride in their "champion" for almost winning a fight against a real samurai, while at the same time not having to deal with his BS. Well, that's a theory at least...

[@TheMetherman]

As shown in the Book of Five Rings, he kept his strategy hidden and angered his opponent to disrupt his focus as required.

[@Bob_Lennart]

My interpretation of this scene is the samurai was trying to teach the peasant a lesson. If you charge in with no regard for your own safety, you may kill your opponent but you may kill yourself in the process. The samurai knew it was a draw, but he also knew with steel there is no such thing as a draw. Only two dead men.

[@darthnihilusthebestsith]

Arguably that is not something they should be teaching when training an army with an advantage in numbers and a disadvantage in skill. A peasant for a bandit is a good trade off in the upcoming battle

[@notserpentis]

I don't see this as a teaching moment, more as a test. Kyuzo gauged their relative speeds, application of tactics and attitude to fight in the stick fight. "I won" had little to do with who landed the first blow, but with overall engagement. He did not bother to explain this to someone who is a challenger and not a student and accepted the actual duel as a matter of honor. He won the fight before it began.

[@FaceJP24]

@@darthnihilusthebestsith This was before Kyuzo was recruited, they were still in the larger town scouting for Samurai to recruit to bring to the endangered village.

[@markgonzalez4199]

They were both Samurai

[@natehammar7353]

@@markgonzalez4199no, the guy who loses was a fool. He attempted the exact same attack when life was on the line as he did when only honor was on the line. He already knew his attack would fail and still did it.

[@jayim7996]

The deeper story is a game of chess. A skilled samurai would never reveal his signature moves in a test duel. Kyuzo tells him he lost because he knows what he'll do with a live blade. If the other samurai was more aware he would known Kyuzo's shuffle step could easily translate into a side step, that was Kyuzo's ace. And given the information he just received from the first duel, at best, a live blade repeat would end up in "Ai Uchi" a mutual kill draw.

[@KorKhan89]

It’s Kyuzo, played by Seiji Miyaguchi. I read somewhere Miyaguchi had no training or experience with swordfighting before making this movie.

[@KorKhan89]

For the record, I’m not dissing his performance, rather I find it amazing how skilled he was able to look due to his acting skills and Kurosawa’s directing. I also find the resemblance between him and James Coburn (who played his equivalent in The Magnificent Seven) pretty amazing.

[@Kamamura2]

I don't believe that. First of all, his stance, his way of handling the blade, his movement, it all speaks about years of practice. Compare it to western actors who are given swords as prop - Uma Thurman in Kill Bill for example. Now THERE is someone with no experience, but not this actor. Second, swordsmanship is taught as a part of curriculum when you study to be an actor. You cannot graduate without passing some minimum - it's similar when you study theater in Europe, stage fencing is taught there too.

[@tyree9055]

If he had no swordsmanship training, he had to have something equally difficult (i.e. requiring physical self-control). He's way too coordinated to have had no experience in a similar art.

[@TheTenguwarrior]

@@Kamamura2 Akira Kurosawas Sword Choreographer and fight director for this movie was Yoshio Sugino Sensei. A Master of Tenshin Shoden Katori Shinto-ryu and legendary teacher of kenjutsu. I think that makes all the difference when you get teached by a real martial artist or by someone who professionally teaches actors "just" stage fighting

[@Rogue0770]

I believe that's true, it's mentioned on the criterion collection DVD commentary.

[@MacDorsai]

I think the Samurai didn't want to fight, not because he was afraid, he just didn't see any value in killing the other guy. With the sticks, he showed that if he did exactly what the other guy did, the other guy would die. His own "death" wouldn't mean life to the other guy, he would still die. When the fight was forced, it went the way of the stick fight and the bully died. The only difference was that the Samurai sidestepped as you pointed out. The bully's death was exactly as stated the first time. Even more to the point, I think the Samurai knew he would win. If he had sidestepped in the stick fight, it would have showed the bully "a" defensive move. He might have changed his attack, but if he wanted to fight, he was still going to die, one way or another.

[@TheUncleRuckus]

Exactly

[@HoJu1989]

Ok, but then he shouldn't have said "I win" when the other said "draw". He could have said it differently. Because yes, the other guy would be dead in a real fight, but so would he if he didn't sidestep

[@derekmorse8171]

spot on

[@Prometheus4096]

I think he wanted a real fight with real swords, so he could kill. That's why he deliberately let the other guy hit him. And that's why he immediately countered with that it wouldn't have been a draw if he had used a real sword. He didn't only want to fight. But he wanted mortal combat. And when his life was on the line, he suddenly no longer believed in his theory that the first fight was a draw, and he changed his technique and dodged.

[@bookman7409]

@@HoJu1989 "Ok, but then he shouldn't have said "I win" when the other said "draw"." Timestamp, please, because all I can find is 'no, if it had been real, you'd have been dead'. This is quite correct, but the nameless ronin wanted bragging rights, something that he wouldn't have if a real encounter had gone that way. Kyuzo wasn't there for that extraneous crap, he was there to kill. Preferably the bad guys, but if some hack with a sword was there for another reason, he'd kill him, too. Draws are for practice, not combat. That's where only survival counts. Kyuzo was right, the ronin lost, but the ronin was too ignorant to see that. And if he wanted to dance for real over a bragging point, he was going to die. Kyuzo did nothing wrong in terms of the time and culture, and even in modern terms when it comes to combat. What you think Kyuzo should or shouldn't have said/done has no bearing on the rights and wrongs of the scene, because you apparently reject the historical context of it. That ronin died because he was confident in his ignorance that he was as good as Kyuzo. Don't emulate that ronin.

[@vicnighthorse]

I sat near Kurosawa in an LA restaurant in 1990. I had been a big fan as a kid and it was hard not to gape and wave like an idiot. Thankfully I was pretty sober and didn't bother him.

[@feudist]

I interpret Kyuzu's character as the itinerant "Sword Saint", a'la Musashi, so popular in Chambara cinema. A man whose only goal is perfecting his swordsmanship in the Way. Ergo, in the passage with blunts, he isn't commenting on the swinging of the sticks but on his opponent's zanshin, mushin and fudoshin, his situational awareness, lack of ego involvement in deadly combat and his unshakable focus. It's like the difference between target shooting and gunfighting. The one supports the other, but doesn't account for the psychological dimension of deadly combat. Re: "The Shootist" when Gillom Rogers claims he outshot JB Books in target practice. He actually paid his opponent the compliment of speaking to him as if he would understand and acknowledge the lesson. Alas he did not.

[@Relicarious]

I agree nearly completely, except for Musashi being quite a bit of an asshat who would've been unlikely to give the opponent a chance to bow out with lessons learned.

[@feudist]

@@Relicarious Definitely. He was notorious for breaking bones in demonstration sparring.So the first round would have left the guy unable to continue.

[@dlatrexswords]

Great analysis Matt. For some reason this YT upload is quite a bit chopped compared to the version of the scene I’m used to watching (but maybe the directors cut is more smooth than the standard release). Those inconsistencies between the guard are certainly covered in copy of the film I have. Ahh the first action movie!

[@KorKhan89]

Yeah in my DVD version it explicitly shows him transitioning from chudan to waki. The whole scene looks a lot smoother and more deliberately shot. I think this KZbin version has been edited down for some reason.

[@Kamamura2]

Those inconsistencies are not present in the original, full length movie. They were created when the film was shortened for the western audience. I remember watching the movie when I was 19, it lasted more than 3 hours and there was even intermission in the middle.

[@bentrieschmann]

I also have the full film and it has a longer uncut version of this film.

[@J0eNerd]

To me this entire scene hinges on all the quiet moments that this clip completely omits, but we can see the essence of it for a few seconds at 11:27, where Kyuzo steps forward and the opponent retreats, his brash attitude suddenly replaced with caution. The cut footage repeats the quiet moments from the bamboo duel, but where the samurai is exactly as calm and collected as he was the first time around, the peasant is visibly nervous now that steel is involved. When he charges this time, his battle-yell has been replaced by a high-pitched scream, and his opponent easily cuts him down. A samurai can maintain presence of mind even when staring death in the face, which is the fundamental principle of bushido. (It's also extremely relevant to the plot of the broader movie, with how the villagers vs samurai respond to the increasing pressure of the bandit attacks)

[@brianmincher716]

Excellent analysis

[@darylblack7394]

I always interpreted this scene as Kyuzo not taking the full step in the first duel because without steel the sword stops at the point of contact and since the swinging of the sword is all one motion of the entire body for that strike from that position. Kyuzo knew this when he said the first match wasn't a draw because if he had continued moving the sword through his opponent's body the motion of his body would've continued as well and moved his body offline for his opponent's strike.

[@Rekaert]

There's actually something a little bit subtle going on in that scene. Kyuzo (the expert swordsman) lands a proper strike, a killing strike. In addition to him visually landing a solid hit, there's a foley prompt to confirm it. If it were a real blade, his opponent would indeed be dead. If watched carefully, the Ronin's sword doesn't 'hit' Kyuzo, but just comes to rest on his shoulder at the end of his swing. Essentially, he only manages to land a touch with nothing behind it. A 'points' hit, if you will. If it were a live blade, it may have cut Kyuzo, it may not have, but it lacked lethal potential. Kyuzo sees all he needs to, and is then confident that he has the measure of the man. Kambei who is looking on makes the same assessment. The Ronin either doesn't realise it, or his ego won't let him admit it, and he makes a foolish choice.

[@NemanjaNislija]

That's just about how I always saw it. "My strike was clean and strong and landed first; yours was merely quick and a tap to score a point. With real swords you'd tense up and try to hit hard, and I'd have even more time to avoid the afterblow")."

[@formlessone8246]

The problem with that interpretation is the context of a spar and the necessity of both men to pull their blows for safety reasons. The one who assumes that his opponent cannot or would not throw proper, lethal strikes in actual combat because of how he strikes in training is making a potentially fatal error in his interpretation of the facts. Many people will throw "points hits" because they land as quickly as combat hits without doing real damage to your sparring partner; but that same person will proceed to cut tatami and other targets with ease because they do actually know how to use their sword. So the one who called it a draw was apparently expecting his opponent to actually show his skills at defending himself as well as landing blows, but the protagonist refused to treat the spar like expected leading to the double. Maybe it was to save face, but then the protagonist screwed that up by insisting that the double wasn't a double and refusing to elaborate on why or what criteria he was judging his opponent by. In the end, they both let their ego get the better of them.

[@Bb5y]

This is why to score an ippon in kendo is so complicated. The concept of Yokodatotsu being achieved, is what bridges the gap between the bamboo training implement and the shinken.

[@udhessi3444]

​​ @formlessone8246 The skilled one didn't screw up by not explaining to the bully why he thought there was no draw, because understanding it and why is part of the skills expected from a good swordsman. That's shown by the fish-mooth samurai saying that the whole thing is rediculous and there is in fact no contest. Moreover, they are not sparring, but preparing for a real combat against the bandits. In this context, this all draw thing is irrelevant because, as he clearly states, the unskilled guy would have been killed in a real combat. Finally, it's about organising for battle a group of terrified villagers with no martial experience. If the bully understands he was wrong, he could be a useful part of the defense. By insisting on antagonising the skilled ronin because of his ego, he signals that he will be a pain in the neck and finally detrimental to the group. The scene is also about weeding out morons in a time of crisis.

[@Rekaert]

​@@formlessone8246 Part of the problem is characterising it as a sparring session. While it's not explicitly indicated in the film, it seems much more like a challenge, and I'll go out on a limb and suggest it came from the unnamed Ronin as he comes across as more aggressive and with something to prove, driven by bravado, whereas we see none of these traits in Kyuzo through the movie. In the context of a challenge, the aim is to show who would kill the other, not who would touch the other. They're professional Samurai after all, and they're not operating on a formalised set of rules such as Kendo. It's the nearest things they can get to, "if these were live blades, who would be alive at the end"? With that end in mind, Kyuzo demonstrates a killing strike, (and does pull it) the Ronin does not, so he's correct to say he's won, and correct to say that were they real blades, the Ronin would be dead. Those assertions are perfectly consistent with each other. It's not that the Ronin cannot cut and cannot kill with his blade, but more that he had to sacrifice power, balance and form to be able to 'touch' Kyuzo and then tried to pass of a weak touch as though it were the equivalent of Kyuzo's strike, whereas Kyuzo sacrificed none of it in order to land a potentially killing strike in slightly less time.

[@TobyIKanoby]

As many people already said, I think it was part of the story. Like the samurai said: "look I basically did nothing and it was I tie. If I actually tried I would have won". Something like that. Not sure that was a smart move though, he should have just won the first fight. It would have made ronin lose face but he would have actually saved his life, I guess. So following this idea the samurai made a mistake underestimating the stupidity of the other guy.

[@galaxya40s95]

Seems like neither of them could imagine just how big the skill gap was.

[@andrewwebb2241]

You are missing the point to make a quick video. The better guy was willing to let it go and allow the ronin a victory. Thats why the tie. That’s why he didn’t move offline. When the ronin pushed the better guy, the better guy did the actual technique. If the ronin was so inexperienced he didn’t know that mad rush would have killed him, then he found out.

[@RabbitxRabbit]

I agree. It was a way to let his challenger save face.

[@SabiJD]

Yeah, like a lot of others, it seems, I was about to post something similar. I'd describe it as Kyuzo not having ego about the encounter. He doesn't seem to care much, or at least put his ego on the line. He saw, and knew, the guy's technique and, especially, attitude was all wrong, and that when it counts he'd fail. Kyuzo had no desire to take a life, but agrees when the guy outright draws steel. And he is proven right by the end.

[@robhogg68]

But... he allowed the other guy a tie, and then insisted that he won (rather than just shrugging and walking away). It feels very ego-driven to me. Almost the sort of thing a pool (duel) hustler would do.

[@stefthorman8548]

@@robhogg68 he won because he "measured" his opponent - his reactions, his temperament, his skill, his technique, everything, and knew that the ronin was an no skill bozo, and that he didn't need to show off his skills, since it's not an real duel.

[@pepepepito623]

The LARP dude criticizes kurosawa' cinematography.Ha!

[@williamarthur4801]

WasWas this the inspiration for the gun v knife with James Coburn?

[@ariochiv]

Yes.

[@KorKhan89]

Indeed, the two actors look pretty similar too!

[@DavidOmaha1]

​@@KorKhan89 Except that Coburn was the tallest of his cast, and this actor was the shortest. I have been told that this was the samurai that Coburn really wanted to play, and heard about casting for this movie late in the process. When he contacted them, he was told that this was the only part they hadn't cast yet.

[@outsideiskrrtinsideihurt699]

2:55 This as well. We have period art of katana also being worn edge down and in the belt during the muromachi era. This strict idea of the katana needing to be faced up is yet another creation of the Edo period and shouldn’t be applied to previous eras.

[@atom8248]

Also, koshiate are a thing.

[@hristotanev3737]

Hello, The character's name is Kyuzo and he is played by the famous actor - Miyaguchi Seiji. The prototype of this character is the famous Miyamoto Musashi (like the rest of the leading characters of the Seven, who bear the behavioral traits of famous sword masters from Japanese history; Shimada Kanbei (played by Shimura Takashi) - prototype of Kamiizumi Nobutsuna, Katayama Gorobei (played by Inaba Yoshio) - prototype of Tsukahara Bokuden. The coordinator of the fight scenes in this film is the iconic teacher of the Katori Shinto-ryu school - Sugino Yoshio-sensei. According to the memories that Sugino-sensei shared, Miyaguchi Seiji had absolutely no knowledge of fencing before the filming of this movie, so he and the famous Mifune Toshiro (played by Kikuchiyo) were regular visitors to his dojo. As far as I know Metatron, with whom you are in communication, studied the Katori Shinto school under Sugino-sensei (probably under his successor) and he can give you more details on this subject. PS. This particular duel scene is based on a story (maybe real, maybe not - only the narrators/eyewitnesses of the Past Times know the truth) from the life of Yagyu Jubei Mitsuyoshi - the Yagyu Shinkage School. According to her, the incident developed precisely in this way during a demonstration duel before the shogun Tokugawa Iemtsu - the third ruler of the Tokugawa regime in the early Edo period.

[@philvanderlaan5942]

It wasn’t a villager he was a samurai or Ronin who thought he was a lot more than he was and challenged a true master swordsman

[@Kamamura2]

Indeed, a "villager" would not know how to use a sword, and would not even pick it up, as it was forbidden.

[@ibrowndawgx]

12:40 Kendo players that use jodan actually almost always use hidari jodan with their left foot in front. They also usually strike keeping the left foot in front, although this is not always the case, depending on distance and the particular type of technique used. Always keeping the right foot in front is a general guidline given to beginners who will only learn chudan first, but there are actually many exceptions to that rule. It's quite an interesting example of how differently kendo and HEMA are usually taught, I guess stemming from their different goals. Where I've found HEMA tends to give everything up front, Kendo teaching tends to be much more layered and more advanced concepts/techniques are only introduced much later.

[@adambielen8996]

Yeah, I was also going to say that jodan is left foot forward.

[@Relicarious]

And just to add to it, of course there is also migi jodan which has the right foot forward and both hands on the centerline. Both jodan are in the first kata.

[@ericifune5543]

It's not training. It's a duel. It's not a peasant, it's another ronin. Kyuzo knew he would have won a duel with real swords. The other ronin did not. That's the whole point of the scene. That's why Kanbe was so impressed.

[@Prometheus4096]

If he knew he would have won the first fight if that was with real swords, why did he sidestep in the second fight? Clearly, it shows he didn't believe his own lie about it not being a draw.

[@Angatyr34]

I think other's touched on the characterisations. The Samurai was only trying to point out that the villager could not win - whatever happens, he'll die. The Samurai was simply being concise and brief by pointing out what mattered, that the guy "lost". And yeah by not sidestepping in the Bamboo duel, he doesn't give away his intended move it were steel, and gets a look at the opponent's intent. That's how he 'won'. He learned about the opponent and gave up nothing. Tried to teach the lesson, guy didn't listen. If he had sidestepped with the bamboo and won, the villager could still have escalated to steel after being beaten (as is oft the case with braggarts in front of others) and then he would have likely led with a different move, nullifying what the Samurai learned. That's what I saw as communicating his 'mastery'.

[@nucklechutz9933]

He absolutely makes the same move in practice as in the real fight. It's a back step that's slightly offline, you can't tell it's as dramatic because there is no follow through, but yes, the "side" (back) step is there. It's the same exact move both times, the second time there is follow through and cut, so the step appears more complete, and the untrained swordfighter is only pushing that hard because he ISN'T afraid of bamboo. In real steel it is the attacker that changes his move, and the resulting finish to the cut just results in a more dramatic final position. The guy below with the actual kenjutsu knowledge says it better, but I just wanted to point out that I see the same back-step in the practice duel and I always saw it, so it feels weird that you keep asserting it doesn't happen.

[@KenoticMuse]

I don't see where's the lie. The movie clearly says the the first one was a draw from the villager's point of view, and a lost from the samurai's point of view. And then the second fight show that the samurai's point of view is correct -- he correctly assessed the villager's skills when he said that the villager would die in a real fight. I don't know why the film maker choose to tell the story this way, but there's no trick of camera or lie in the way the fight was conducted (not that I can see). Maybe the moral of the story is that the weaker guy should know when to notice that the other side is holding back, and nott to overestimate the effectiveness of his own bluster.

[@IWolfofMibuI]

I believe this is the correct viewpoint. They aren't point fighting but a judgment of skill. To Kyuzo this was NOT a draw. He knows exactly what would happen with steel swords.

[@EdwardCooler-py6mu]

Different movie, but, " A man's got to know his limitations."

[@Prometheus4096]

He tells you it is a lie by sidestepping in the second fight. The second fight shows that the samurai was wrong. But he lives and the other guy dies.

[@adambielen8996]

I think that was the intended message but they didn't actually say it. The Samurai should have told the villager that 2 dead men isn't a draw.

[@Frisco_Schills]

I think what you’re missing in the visual narrative are a couple of things. The duelists begin in the same guard position. The opponent moves to a raised guard position and Kyuzo counters with a lower guard. The opponent attacks and Kyuzo lands his blow first by a split second. (You’ll need. The laser disc version to have the appropriate slow motion to see Kyuzo’s blow land first.) Kyuzo did not side step in wooden sword duel because from his perspective the lower guard is the clear counter to the raised guard and his opponent did not respond with the correct counter.

[@crazypetec-130fe7]

That split-second difference in time between blows makes no difference. With steel, they'd both be dead.

[@outsideiskrrtinsideihurt699]

Great point. Both Kyuzo and the other samurai watching already knew who was more skilled. By doing the same move as the peasant and still being faster told Kyuzo that he was better both in skill AND speed so there was no contest as to who would win in a real duel.

[@BenHyle]

@@crazypetec-130fe7 Well, see, in the film they do it with steel and exactly one person died.

[@outsideiskrrtinsideihurt699]

@@crazypetec-130fe7 but pair that split second advantage with also knowing more techniques, being cooler headed, and being more experienced and it’s clear that the peasant has no at beating Kyuzo

[@Frisco_Schills]

@ not a Kenjutsu or fencing student, but the link to various stances provides a visual reference for the point I was trying to make. There is a knowledge gap regarding Kenjutsu that is apparent to Kyuzo and the other Samurai as soon as the opponent switches stances and then fails to properly respond to Kyuzo’s stance. Even as a non-practitioner, one can have an intuitive visualization of stances might interact. kzbin.info/www/bejne/e5-WZ4OHjN5spcUsi=2un6SUvqkiIjH5d-

[@_Green_Onions_]

I just got into this film a few weeks ago. And I couldn’t find any fight reviews. Thanks for posting this! The video you are using to review, also has several sections cut out, which is unfortunate, as we didn’t get to see the whole duel unfold. Like that cut at 4:00

[@joshuafair5599]

1. You need to find one of the longer cuts of this movie (like the criterion collection DVD). It looks like this version hacks up this fight a lot (hence Kyuzo's guard changing when the camera cuts to a different angle). A lot of the earlier US/European exports of this movie chopped out up to an hour of footage. 2. I think the point is in the first bout, Kyuozo was just measuring the guy, not bothering to show off how easily he could beat him.

[@TheUncleRuckus]

Sorry Matt I feel your missing the entire point and not seeing any of the Nuance of the scene. 🤷 I'm going to go into detail as there are _many_ others in the comments who have said what I would say just much more eloquently. edit: Also this is Cut Version of this fight, the original is longer and shows the Master Samurai and Ronin both change stances, so there is no "continuity error" as you say there is, which makes me feel you either watch a horrible edited version of 7 Samurai or never really watched it all the way through. Still think you're top notch you just happen to be off on this particular video. 👍👍

[@derekmorse8171]

I think "Samurai" knew he won because he still had the hidden trick of side stepping that he didn't think village guy knew, which he had to reveal when they used real swords, hence he knew that villager guy would be killed if "Samurai" applied all his real skill. A bit like me boxing with Mike Tyson and then insisting he doesn't hold back, result me KO'd big time... hahaha

[@Kamamura2]

He knew he won because he "measured" his opponent - his reactions, his temperament, his skill, his technique, everything.

[@derekmorse8171]

@@Kamamura2 that's what I was clumsily trying to say hahaha

[@RobertDeanWare]

One of Matt's main points was that "the hidden trick of side stepping," is a basic, fundamental technique of virtually all personal combat systems, taught to and usually learned by all early level students.

[@Pilgrim98]

The hidden trick of one of the most basic moves ever conceived

[@derekmorse8171]

@@RobertDeanWare exactly. But village guy didn't know this move that's why "samurai" warned him he would be killed and the two observers knew village guy would be killed. "samurai" just put the correct moves into play during the second duel and the "villiage guy" lost. That's my interpretation.

[@memyshelfandeye318]

Dear Matt, I am surprised you did not notice that the first duel was not a draw, but a clear win for Kyuzo. Watch the playback in slow-mo, or even better, frame-by-frame (using , and . keys) and you'll notice that kyuzos arms come up much higher than necessary if he only would strike from the low guard into the right side of his opponent, but the sword is not visible behind him (unlike in the 2nd duel), so it must be to the right side (away from the camera). He actually (partly) blocks his opponents attack with the "hilt", then uses that energy to rotate his "sword" around into his opponent while backstepping just enough to account for his forward motion. The ruffian ronins strike ended before Kyuzo even beginns his counterattack, and after that the ruffian ronins (RRs?) sword just "drifts" into the final "draw" position because of the forward momentum of its wielder.

[@Prometheus4096]

If the samurai was so confident in his ability and the first fight 'not being a draw', why did he change technique then? The fact that the samurai changed technique for the second fight proves that he thought it was a draw. And that he would be injured if during the first fight they had real swords.

[@Subutai_Khan]

@@Prometheus4096 Well the reality is there are no "draws" in a fight to the death. If you die you lose so if both combatants die they are both losers. The very mindset the less experienced ronin had that a double is a draw is already a terrible mindset for a warrior and the main character recognized this. That is why the other guy was wrong for calling it a "draw". Plus there is the dynamic of measuring skill and indeed it is clear who had the better technique even if we assume they both landed hits.

[@Prometheus4096]

@@Subutai_Khan How is both dying not a 'draw'?

[@Subutai_Khan]

@ Because you are dead. Combat is not a game, if you die you lost and can proceed no longer.

[@kommissarkillemall2848]

About the claim that with steel he would die, he was not wrong. From a pure technical point yes, but even as important is the cultural aspect and the time it plays. . The Samurai was holding back because this "fight "is below his status, and he knows he can take his opponents life but their would be no honour in it just for to show he can. So, he kind of whisks it away like "oke, with bamboo,then. We're done, no unneccesery blood was spilled and you had your fun. now don't push it". He also kind of saved his opponents face by not humilliating him in public. A challenge with steel swords is a different level and cannot be refused without losing face. Especially with public watching. Honour and decorum was so much more important then as it is now.

[@danwittmayer6539]

I've always loved the 7 Samurai film. The range of tones in the b/w imagery is so rich! Your analysis is fascinating. There is a climactic duel between the same Ronin & a bad guy, later in the action & yet another tragic one at the end. Great drama!

[@ChefSandwichboy]

Yeah, the entire point of the duel is Kyuzo was only playing along to more politely teach a brash fool some humility. He didn't sidestep initially because he didn't need to and wasn't looking to humiliate the guy in front of everyone. But when dude insists that "yay, it was a draw" as if he had any business fighting with a sword for real, Kyuzo very correctly tells him that he has no idea what he's talking about. When said fool refused to actually LISTEN and insisted on fighting for real, the lesson was instead presented to everyone else.

[@Kamamura2]

"I actually agree with the villager there that it was a draw..." - it just means you would die in that duel too, Matt. The scene was to demonstrate that the lesser trained combatant cannot appreciate the finesse of the superior skill - and sometimes, even see it. Yet it does not mean it's not there... Also, Matt, you are using a cut version. I remember watching the original, and the duel was longer, I clearly remember the transition from the neutral stance to the lower guard was in the movie - it was a very intense, somewhat slow, but deliberate movement.

[@TheUncleRuckus]

This 👆😂

[@markgonzalez4199]

You're right. I have that version and the transition is in there.

[@joshridinger3407]

i mean matt actually is an experienced fencer, and these are actors with minimal training, not real samurai. so it's more that matt sees through the narrative, the fantasy, to the actual skill being shown (which is: not much).

[@Kamamura2]

@@joshridinger3407 Yeah, that's just something you are pulling out of your willingness to worship your person of choice. The fact is you don't know how long that actor trained, and how much. As luck would have it, I have spent the first half of my life practicing all kinds of martial arts as well, and I know one thing for sure - the way that actor stands and moves with the sword - he was no beginner. It might even be that he would give Matt a good beating if it came to sparring.

[@railspony]

@@joshridinger3407 In storytelling the story is the "actual skill being shown" and the acting technique is the fantasy.

[@derekwebb7577]

I just watched this film less than an hour ago, what a great story it is. Both participants are masterless Samurai, Ronin. I think the scene was intended to look like a tie to the audience, but the onlooking Ronin Shimada tells young protege Katsushiro that it is a mismatch, which turns out to be the case. I enjoy your videos and appreciate the informed insight into these theatrical fights you break down for the layperson. Keep up the good work.

[@ianalexander7082]

I'm not really sure whatvyou're after. The point is that Kyuzo can tell a killing blow from a non-killing blow. He never says 'you never hit me', he says 'you'd be dead and i wouldn't', because he's experienced. The point is that he has a almost supernatural level of understanding with the sword. Thats what the scene is about. It would have been hard to show it in the same way if in the first runthrough he'd won a clear victory. If the ronin had claimed it a draw, we the viewer would be able to tell it was not as well, putting Kyuzo no wiser than us. Its supposed to look like a draw to us, because Kyuzo is more insightful than us - more insightful than anyone.

[@iota-09]

Quite simply, the interpretation is that in what is presented as a sparring match a draw is determined by hit-to-point, not by hit-to-kill, given that the viewer from an out of context clip sees that, it's reasonable to think that's also how the characters were operating, if context and subtext imply differently, that is unfortunately not discernible from the video, because in that case then yes, it wasn't a draw. Or to put in simpler terms: In point terms, it's a draw(arguable, but extremely likely) In skill terms, it's not(undeniable i'd say) Assune that the context was about who scored the point, and the nameless guy was (likely) correct, assume it was about showcasing skill and composure, and the second guy is, but also, why not just explain that and save the man's life? Hard to say without watching the movie itself, and that's where the "lie" matt mentioned in the video title comes, as the point of contention seemed to be that the two would have used the same exact techniques 1:1, and a change in technique would be perceived as a lie... But only, again, if the contest was about hit-to-point, not about anything else.

[@ianalexander7082]

@iota-09 I think it's an error to view this like it is a modern sparring match that we're judges of. It's a piece of film making designed to tell a story. In the first round kyuzo knows he'd have survived and the other guy would have died. It doesn't matter what it looks like to us, because the implication of the film is that he's correct, no matter what we audience would believe. In the second round, it doesn't matter that he wins with another technique; it's a more dangerous situation and so he wins clearly, not messing around. It doesn't mean that in the first round he wasn't correct. We're supposed to take the scene at face value as presented and accept what Kurosawa is telling us, that Kyuzo is just so good that he can tell the difference between a killing blow and not. There's no point discussing alternatives, because it's a story and that's what the story is telling us is true.

[@iota-09]

@@ianalexander7082 that's fair, i wasn't saying it wasn't an error either, just that it is undertandable to be viewing it that lens given the clip is out of context(although matt did say he watched the movie, so that's a different matter i guess)

[@dylantindall5573]

In the first instance, the swordsman stands ground drawing his attacker to a point of no option. The attacker cannot but complete his intention. The second instance is exactly the same except the swordsman uses the option he always had - to shift stance while cutting. He shifts his sword to gedan ( low position ) to leave space for, and encourage, the attacker's commitment. Keeping this option in reserve is a strategic 'win '. Recognizing his opponents over-commitment from the start ( the dramatic context ) he simply has to have the courage to wait and not engage blades, or 'fence'. The intimation is that the character knew this before the challenge and had always won, much as a bullfighter knows to not wrestle with the horns.

[@1-t254]

I view this like the story of Sasaki Kojirō and Miyamoto Musashi. The first fight was thrown into a draw to size up the opponent and then taunt and enrage him. The second one was to teach the village about hubris.

[@mountbeckworth1]

Here is an analogy. You know those 3 cup street tricksters, "which one has the walnut under it?", well they let you win the first try. But you'll never win the second, when you put down real money.

[@jossbartleet7075]

Great video, can I just add in the second act with steel swords you mention that in kendo you always move with your right foot forwards, this is true but only for standard stance, if you are fighting in Jo Dan, the stance taken by the combatant with the moustache, you would move left foot forward just as he does in the movie

[@argophontes]

I'm sure you've recognized this, but there are huge chunks taken out of the scene here. In the actual film, there's a full 2 minutes from the time the first guy raises his stick to the time that Kyūzō changes his stance, so there's definitely some context missing. The original scene is around 6 minutes long.

[@Aethelgeat]

If I was to defend this scene from a literary point of view, I would suggest that the full turn/side-step is a part Kyūzō's stroke, but as he's not actually cutting through his opponent with bamboo, he stops - or pulls the blow - mid-turn rather than perform a full force/speed cutting stroke on his opponent with the bamboo. He knows the actual blow would have sliced his opponent as he side-stepped their blade; his opponent thinks no further than the moment of contact with an aborted stroke. I would say the scene is not about the actual combat, but being able to see ahead of one's choices and action. A bit like seeing in a chess match that mate in inevitable in a few more moves and resigning.

[@justinreilly6619]

There was a homage to this fight in the Star Wars Rebels episode 'Twin Sons' (episode 20, season 3). It was a great episode that aired the final meeting between Obi-Wan and Maul. It had a good emotional punch. Thanks for the review of this scene in a truly wonderful film. 👌

[@benjaminportilla9297]

This duel is an absolute standout classic, in an absolute classic of a film. This one fight has had a profound influence on sword fight cinema across the globe, from animation to Star Wars. What a great cinematic moment (even if you're right about the first match with the bamboo).

[@TheUncleRuckus]

But he's not right though he's missing all the nuance in that fight. 🤷

[@benjaminportilla9297]

@TheUncleRuckus Even if the samurai struck "first," the challenger's weapon was on a fatal trajectory and the samurai allowed the blow to land in the first match. I think Matt's point is that it doesn't matter who killed who first if they both are "dead" a few minutes later.

[@MysticPaladin]

The commentary said that with the bamboo swords, even though the uncouth samurai struck first, Kyuzo put his whole body into the strike, so he struck harder, thereby winning. When steel is drawn, he knew he had to get out of the way.

[@Stiltonator]

The first fight _was_ a draw. But i also read it as, he's not dueling for his opponents education... They are not friends. I always took it to be, that he wasn't committed fully to the first duel, and after the first fight, he had sized him up and was confident he knew exactly what the guy would do... and how to beat it. Even if he didn't show his opponent. Then when forced, with real swords -- he _did_ show him. The 'not main character' didn't do anything different and just ran onto his sword in exactly the same way... Hence why kambei says, when he see's the 'scruffy ronin' take the exact same stance -- it's obvious what will happen. I always took it to be: He's not... trying to deceive him completely... He's not 'bloodthirsty': He tries to avoid the fight several times.. He then tells the guy hes going to lose, he's going to die. But the guy still wants to fight. -- it's a really minor thing too but a little detail i love that you skipped over... Perhaps i read too much into it but, as soon as the guy draws - the way he throws his hat down, it comes across as frustration. God i love this movie, _thanks matt_ now i have to rewatch this again soon ... tsch.

[@tarmaque]

Note that the actor who plays Kyuzo (Seiji Miyaguchi) had never been taught any sword fighting at all prior to this movie. He was schooled in a few very specific moves in order to look good on camera. In the first fight I tend to agree it was a double strike, however in the theater I doubt anyone could tell. The final sword fight in Yojimbo is considerably better. At that point Toshio Mifune was an experienced stage sword fighter, and the final (only!) cut in the fight is magnificent.

[@outsideiskrrtinsideihurt699]

Matt, I love your videos and you’re probably one of my favorite sword KZbinrs, but this is a very shallow analysis. The point was not that the samurai did exactly what he did in the sparring match. I think a better interpretation was that he simply let the draw happen and chose to anger the peasant into fighting with real swords. Others have said he was letting the peasant save face and was giving him a chance to leave while still reminding him of who was more skilled. For peasants who are less familiar with swordsmanship, they likely would’ve had the same interpretation you did, but the samurai characters watching clearly understood the more skilled samurai was hiding something or had other motivations than simply “winning” a sparring match. I highly recommend you rewatch the scene with a less literal/face value lens

[@Prometheus4096]

Why would he let the draw happen, and then insist it was not a draw? And in the second fight which was there to prove his theory on it being a draw 'if the swords were real', he changed his technique and dodged. Apparently, he didn't trust his own skill to take out his opponent before they would land their blow, enough for the second fight. It shows the audience that the skilled samurai lied on purpose on it being a draw. He never believed it himself.

[@outsideiskrrtinsideihurt699]

@@Prometheus4096 like Matt here, I think you may be taking it at face value too much. The surface level interpretation is that he was referring to the sparring match as a draw but what I think he really meant was that he won as a swordsman. In literature there is the text and the subtext. Here the text is the sparring match, if you just want to look at a the text, it was clearly a draw. The subtext here is how the two grow and learn as swordsmen. The peasant uses the match in place of a real one and puts his all into it. Kyuzo knows that this is a nonlethal match fought with bamboo stick and neither would get seriously injured if they lose or draw. Knowing this, he uses the opportunity to figure out the peasant in his speed, technique, temperament, and perspective. When he claims he won, it is not in the sense he won the sparring match since it’s clearly a draw, but he won in the sense he has now gained all this insight into his opponent so that if they were to fight with real swords, he would win. The peasant, still only looking at the surface level and only being concerned with winning, has not learned anything about Kyuzo.

[@Prometheus4096]

@@outsideiskrrtinsideihurt699 No. You guys are taking it at face value. Matt's and my analysis is actually way deeper. Since you say this, I don't think you have understood what Matt said.

[@outsideiskrrtinsideihurt699]

@@Prometheus4096 nobody is questioning or asking clarification on what Matt is asserting because it is the simplest interpretation. You can say “well if the were using real swords they both would’ve died” and you’d be right but their not fighting with steel swords so Kyuzo doesn’t care to win, lose, or draw. Only when the real swords are out does he take it seriously because his life is actually at stake. If you and Matt are truly misunderstood, and your interpretation really isn’t so simple and literal, I’d be glad to hear you reword it since most people are in agreement of what Matt is trying to say.

[@mattlewis4553]

The 4k landed recently and I have rewatched this sublime masterpiece very recently. From my perspective as a HEMA-ist / Battoto Practitioner and Cinephile This is a particularly brillaint scene.

[@SMac86]

Such a classic film full of great storytelling and characters. Great scene, thanks for reviewing it.

[@SMac86]

I have to agree with other comments. The first was a test of character and composure, not about swords. The older samurai knew he could make adjustments against a foolhardy opponent. It was more an overall experience claim to victory rather than a single engagement victory. And he proved it, he adjusted with a simple sidestep, changing what he did the first time, while his opponent (true to his character) was over committed and unable or unwilling to make adjustments. It’s more of a Sun Tzu type victory where he knew what his opponent was going to do and therefore won before the fight took place. Of course there is a lot of assumptions in that, but hey it worked.😂

[@PhantomObserver]

The duel is essentially a clash of styles: the ronin’s antics (meant to intimidate) versus Kyuzo’s efficiency of movement. Kyuzo gleaned more information from observing his opponent’s charge than the ronin did in attacking Kyuzo.

[@hansgruber9367]

I have to correct you on the foot-work in Kendo. There are several guards where you switch your leading foot. For example in waki-gamae, which is the low guard with the sword pointing to the back and also in Jodan-no-kamae where the sword is held overhead. If you go into this positions it feels perfectly natural to switch the feet. There are also some other more rare kamae which also feature the left foot in front but the before mentioned are basic stances and especially Jodan is very often seen in modern Kendo. Apart from that: thank you for another great video. :)

[@thegeneral123]

I always took from this scene a message. What to me was being conveyed is that when you're fighting in practice, with wooden swords or bamboo. Risks will be taken, an brash moves are taken as there's little risk involved. With real swords and when a life is on the line. People tend to play things very differently and the ultimate message was that yes the villager could trade one for one with a samurai with a suicidal attack. Because no one would be expecting such an all in where a life is traded in exchange for striking the other. How many people are suicidal enough to be happy for a draw where both die? The samurai learnt this guy was crazy and would do this for real, so he adapted having learnt his goal. It's the message also that skilled fighters are used to dealing with others trained similarly. An untrained fighter can get a lucky hit because they're chaotic and unpredictable. Which leads into protection and preventing attacks. The assumption is always that the opponent has a strategy to escape alive.

[@PabloM02]

Looking forward to more fight reviews, Matt! In case you didn't know, you can go fame by frame on KZbin videos with the period and comma keys, so that could be useful for scenes with fast action like this one.

[@Ionatan667]

My usual lot of suggestions: 1. Quarterstaff fight from Brotherhood of the Wolf 2. Anything from Arn: Tempelriddaren 3. Bathhouse fight from Eastern Promises (as long as Matt doesn't show the fight, he can review it on KZbin. lol).

[@MakerBoyOldBoy]

Thank you for sharing your expertise on this issue which ties into modern pop culture. The duel you have selected may be one of the only film representations of Miyamoto Musashi's writing that a strike must be made only at the right time. Since, typical samurai movies normally feature a lot of popular sword clanging as American westerns similarly feature gun fights where no one runs out of bullets. A iado instructor once informed me that an actual sword fight would not extend beyond three strokes because one of both combatants would be mortally wounded. There is a rare B&W Japanese movie about the Ganryu Shima duel between Miyamoto and Sasaki of the same 1954 era in which the legendary duel consisted only of a long tension filled period of both fighters totally still until Miyamoto's hewn boat oar with lightning speed strikes Sasaki in the head. This the only definitive example of Miyamoto's philosophy on film. I have searched for many decades for the name of this film I do remember from my youth. I would hope that your resources might uncover the name of this forgotten masterpiece. Thank you.

[@ruialmeida818]

One of the outtakes from this scene is the actual mind game - yes, the first attempt would be a mutual kill, but instead of saving face and bowing, knowing what happened, the villager's ego got in the way, thus he allowed himself to be manipulated into a fight in which Kyuzo already knew what he would be doing. One of the philosophies associated with kenjutsu is to control one's ego and emotion.

[@mpartie]

Ok, if you look at the final contact position of Kyuzo's blade, it is contacting his opponent's body at the monouchi (the cutting or killing surface of the blade) while the scruffy ronin's blade hits Kyuzo with the nakahodo (the controlling surface of the blade) closer to the tsubamoto (cancelling surface). I suspect the camera angle somewhat obscures the line of attack. For Kyuzo to cut with the monouchi and his opponent to 'cut' with the middle of the blade, they had to be off center of each other. Because they were using bokken (a bamboo stick is still a wooden sword), Kyuzo wasn't as thorough in moving from the line. In Kyuzo's mind, as a kensei, his opponent was dead as the duel was announced.

[@michaelpennington6935]

I think the idea of the stick fight is that the samurai isn't really trying to win, he's got nothing to prove. When he says "i won" he's essentially saying "give me the respect my title deserves - you can say what you want when I'm not here" but the villagers ego wants to push it. Instead of just allowing the samurai to leave and then have the rest of his life to brag about "the day I equalled a samurai" he wants to show the village that he too deserves respect. The samurai knows the villager is going to do exactly the same move again, and shows he could've easily won the stick fight but now it's for real, his life is at risk and he wins with ease. You could also argue that had he won the stick fight the villager would have gotten the message and kept his life but in showing the kindness of going easy the samurai actually sealed the other mans fate and should have recognised what was likely to happen by going easy in the first duel.

[@sorokahdeen]

I think another viewpoint is applicable to viewing the scene in question, specifically, that it follows the cinematic tradition of the Zen duel. The Zen duel is a trope that you see everywhere in Japanese period pieces of all kinds from Samurai movies (Jidaigeki) to manga and anime, often as the climax of an already established conflict between a hero and a villain. In a sense, it is a visual representation of a spiritual state of clarity where the winner of the fight is the one who has reached a stage of technique and spiritual development so elevated that he does not "fight" so much as he demonstrates his technique; creating a moment where his resolution is so strong that winning and losing no longer matter--only technique matters. As a trope, the Zen duel's most basic form involves to characters about to fight. One or both of them focuses himself, and the resolve the duel with one attempted technique, often running at one another, and following the one motion that they both make, they both pause, for a moment without setting up to parry or avoid further techniques, and the loser collapses, either dying or already dead. Seen through this lens, the fight, and the reaction of the older Samurai watching it ("it's so obvious") take on a different aspect. Watching the fight, the older Samurai sees the resolution and technique of the eventual winner and realizes that his only concern is attention is improving himself in the use of the sword, while his opponent, another ronin, is full of bluster which makes him irresolute in his and technique. Kurosawa shows this brilliantly by having the first stage end with the bamboo sticks end with the eventual victor's blow landing a fraction of a second faster than his opponent's allowing him to fool himself into thinking that the fight was a draw and throwing his life away by demanding that they repeat the exercise with steel after which he falls to a single stroke of his opponent's blade. The thing that is brilliant about the scene, outside of Kurosawa's cinematographic skills, is that he uses the duel to begin to establish the Zen of the winning ronin's character, a calm resolution that we see later in the scene where he is sitting alone under a tree waiting for a group of bandits to arrive for him to cut down, calmly looking enjoying the sight of some light-colored flowers on the ground. Given attention to the Zen duel trope, it is possible to see scene in a slightly different way.

[@Leftyotism]

German here, in modern German Tag means day. And Dag is an older way of saying and writing Tag. Roof on the other hand is Dach. So "vom Tag" in modern German means "of the day". I had read somewhere that Tag also kind of means above, which makes sense, since the sun is above the horizon during the day. So basically it means "from above", when you look at day referring to the movement of the sun. I am kind of speculating on the 'Tag means above' part. But yeah, y'all get the gist. Hope I could help! 🙂

[@aaronconnolly521]

Oh Hi Matt Aaron here I'm a big fan of your videos I'm a long time practitioner of kenjutsu I hold the rank of 6th Dan in Shinkage ryu love your videos mate keep up work

[@Move_I_Got_This-b3v]

A short is 1 minute. A “short” video from the UK is 16 minutes.

[@littleredridinghood9887]

I don't think Kyuzo lied. When he saw that the challenger's move was slow and unfined, he just showed him "You know that if you move like that, I could have just neutralized your strike and counterattacked, right?" Except he didn't bother to explain it because he thought the challenger would at least know that. But then the challenger surprised him by saying that he thought it was a draw. Then Kyuzo thought, "I knew you were not good. But I didn't see that you are this bad." So he refused a rematch with a real sword. When the challenger drew his sword, Kyuzo just switched to self-defense mode. He had no intention of showing the challenge what counter move he should be aware of, and just cuts him down. That was why he moved differently in the second fight. The film didn't make it obvious, but if you were to imagine the first match was remade in animation where everything was perfectly timed as intended by the script, you would have seen the challenge started swing from the top, then Kyuzo started swinging from the bottom, to the top, then down, and the two bamboo would land at the same time on each other's shoulder. Suppose you tried to strike someone from the top as fast as you can, and your opponent can start from the bottom after you start and still strike you from the top at the same time, how do you not realize that your sword speed is too slow? It just didn't occur to Kyuzo that the challenger didn't understand this.

[@CurlyToeHair]

Good analysis of one of my favorite movie. Thanks. Btw you can slow down or go frame by frame with keyboard.😊

[@gadgetgus]

Hey Matt 👊🏼 I have been watching your videos for a few years now, always entertaining and informative, but I don't often comment - my bad... ⚔️ I regard you as one of the pillars in our community, as with Tod. It's such a classic film. It's been years since I've seen it, and now I feel the need to watch it again... ⚔️ My take on it is: The Samurai is like a humble 'hustler' and letting it appear a draw. Knowing that he has bad energy or intent, he knew that the villager may take it badly... ⚔️ After he demanded a rematch, he then had to show his true skill and dispatch him, so balance can be restored in the universe... Thanks for sharing. All the best, Gus 👍🏻

[@Baernolth1]

Kendo practitioner here! Here are the postures in order of appearance: Chudan no Kamae Waki Gamae Hidari Jodan no Kamae In hidari (left) jodan no kamae the left foot is forward in modern kendo as well. Actually migi (right) jodan is barely used in modern kendo. Two not shown here are hasso no kamae where the sword is held with the tsuba up by the shoulder and left food forward, and gedan no kamae with the blad lowered to point more or less just below your opponents hip. In modern kendo you're pretty much just going to see chudan no kamae, gedan, and hidari jodan unless you're doing the kata.

[@jamesNKYI3806]

Best dual scene is in Akira Kurosawa's Sanjuro. The final dual is in KZbin. I suggest everyone watch it. That scene changed movies forever.

[@Rokaize]

Great video. Would be really cool if you went over the other fights/battles in this move since many of them are really interesting and could use your criticism

[@johncartwright8154]

This film, seen on a wet Sunday TV back in 1962, and particularly this scene featuring 'Kyuzo' inspired me to take up Iaido/Kenjitsu later in life. The position he adopts is Waki-gamae a 'concealed stance' opposing the attacker's Jōdan-no-kamae, with both starting from the basic stance of Chūdan-no-kamae. Timing and measure are crucial to Kyuzo's success against the man cast as 'Rash Samurai'. It was said that none of the actors were practiced in swordsmanship, though I presume, as in the West, weapons handling was taught in acting apprenticeships, and as they were young in pre-war Japan, it would of been compulsory in the militaristic and nationalistic policy of Bushido. It would be interesting to view Matt's analysis of the final duel in 'Sanjuro', with it's for the time, shocking end.

[@Amoryl]

I always took it as the samurai essentially saying "it was not a draw, you did your best, and I didn't even try. because this is not a real challenge for me. had I actually used my skill and training it would have been embarrassing for you" as clearly shown in the actual fight where he DID sidestep. and this really strikes at the duel mentality of both these and western movies. that it's not even really about speed, or skill. it's a mind game. it's understanding your opponent, which he clearly did

[@rajagopalansytbe]

First. I was not expecting this classic in your channel, much appreciate it! Second. The video linked does not show the entire duel (with the bamboo and the sword). It's available on the DVD. I couldn't find it on youtube. In the full fight Kyuzo (the "cool" samurai) pressures the other samurai well before he strikes. He's completely in control, while the other samurai is acting out of a sense of desperation, fear and hope that by striking quickly and hard he can pull off a victory. I think anyone who has fenced a sufficiently more skilled and advanced opponent might have felt this. I know I have 🙂 This crucial *context* (see what I did there? 🙂) is missing in the video. That is why you see Kanbei (the older samurai) say "This is not a contest". I believe what the fight choreographers and kurosawa himself were trying to demonstrate was in fact the concept that Kyuzo is so advanced, and so devoted to his craft that he is able to pressure and manipulate his opponent just with his presence.

[@davidcrisp3832]

The actor's name is Seiji Miyaguchi. His character's name is Kyujo.

[@unclenogbad1509]

The 7 fetch up in a rural village, where training swords wouldn't have been available - hence bamboo sticks as an alternative. Neither protagonist knows the others' potential, but it's something that becomes very clear (to us and to them both) over the course of this action. It's some brilliant story-telling, a vignette within a much larger canvas. The first fight may have been, technically, a draw, but it allowed the experienced samurai to assess the other's ability, and know that a real fight would be as one-sided as the eventual result showed.

[@btrenninger1]

I think he lured the guy in, in order to kill him and thus give a concrete example to the other villagers of why they should trust the skills of the samurai. There is a similar scene in the 13th Warrior. He gives the guy an out knowing it would not be taken.

[@markgonzalez4199]

The person he is fighting isn't a villager. He is a fellow ronin. A master masterless Samurai. He just isn't very skilled. The victor is only interested in improving his skill with the blade. He's not interested in this fight.

[@chrisball3778]

This is pretty close to the reading I've always had of the scene. You're supposed to be left wondering whether Kyuzo was deliberately trying to goad his opponent into a fight with real swords so that he could justify killing him. There are loads of ambiguous fight scenes in Kurosawa's oeuvre. He loves making the audience interpret the action based on their understanding of the characters.

[@M.M.83-U]

Mmmmmh, two notes as a long time practitioner of traditional Japanese martial arts: 1) Bokken are weapons, they can break bones very easily, bamboo poles not so much. 2) The difference is in the confidence/self control/style/attitude, the ronin was hit because he choose so, the villager because he was incapable to do better. It's a (very stylized) presentation of two completely different skill levels.

[@tedhodge4830]

Kagemusha is my favorite film by Kurosawa. It was actually heavily promoted by George Lucas and Francis Ford Coppola, who were huge admirers of Kurosawa. They simply wanted to enable Kurosawa to be able make another film. I think the point that the ronin was making in the first duel was that he would lose in a real duel because he already got a feel for his opponent and knew exactly how to counter him, not that he necessarily won the first duel. But maybe I'm being charitable. I think it was intended to be up for interpretation to a certain extent.

[@Zbigniew_Nowak]

I have a problem with this approach to training: we fake a punch and stop the weapon. This can cause faulty muscle memory. In fact, I remember a martial arts trainer (bare hands) explaining to me that if you want to learn how to punch your opponent well, imagine punching an object behind him! Even a blow directly to the head may be "too short" to have a good effect.

[@Relicarious]

Full-on training would include contact. And the cuts that do not hit should still be delivered with proper cutting technique rather than simply slowing to a halt. Even after later translating into kendo where we put on padding and use bamboo I was taught that a cut to the head is aiming to go through the top and stop at the nose.

[@Zbigniew_Nowak]

@@Relicarious Well, yes, theoretically, the cut can be made "in the air" in front of the target.

[@xyzxyzxyzxyzxyzxyz]

One of my favorite movies of all time.

[@MrTvolaCZ]

Like the review! I don't know why Kendo seems to be mentioned a lot here, but there are few things to be corrected here. 1) The guard with sword held down behind and low is actually used in Kendo, specificaly in Kendo kata number 4 (also briefly in Kodachi kata 2) 2) If the sword is held above the head it is actually much more common to have left foot forward. In various techniques and guards you can switch feet (and body) positions. There is no rule in Kendo which foot should be in front. So actualy saying the right foot in Kendo always in the front (like it was some rule or anything) is not true. Great point about the sidestep, it has also bugged me for years :-D

[@hrhamada1982]

Kyuzo was played by Seiji Miyaguchi. His role went on to inspire James Coburn as Britt in the Magnificent Seven

[@nathanjohnson7430]

FWIW, I think you are watching an edited copy. I grew up watching the Criterion Edition on VHS, and I very distinctly remember it showing Kyuzo switching from Chudan to Waki in both of these fights.

[@64Rosso]

Hi Matt, first of all I would like to congratulate with you for your channel, your expertise and for the passion and the heart that you put in your videos: I watched them enchanted like a little boy in front of a Disney movie :-) This time, alas, I agree with many comments that I've read below: the difference between kendo and fencing is exactly here (and it is very difficult to understand from an outside perspective). In fencing the only thing that counts is "touching" the other one, no matter how, before he touches you; in kendo the most important thing is the "spirit": if you watch a kendo bout you will see thousands of times people gets hit and still the referee does not award any point, and why is that? Because there was no spirit behind that hit! In the first duel of this sequence a trained eye will never see a draw, because from one side (the rude ronin) there was no real spirit in that blow, whilst the more skillful ronin had had the ability to "sense" the attack of his adversary and calmly (even if in a blink of an eye) choose how to react and assign the "fatal" blow. I know that this sounds like a "hippie" talk, or some kind of "new age spiritualism", but in fact is quite the opposite, and I'm sure that you have felt many, many times, that sensation in your guts when dueling with someone much skillful and stronger than you, and you "know" that you are doomed whatever you are going to try, because you feel that he is IN your mind, reading you and he will be always be capable to anticipate you, or parry, contrast in whatever manner he will choose to do, and even if you manage to touch him by some lucky shot that feeling will not go away, and you'll know that you are the real loser. This scene tells us exactly this, and this is the way the "shaved old samurai" that is observing the duel will pick up his companions: by feeling their spirit - BTW the one that is missing in Mifune Toshiro's character, and the reason that he was rejected at the beginning. Kudos from Italy!

[@kevinjohanson5718]

I was up late night about 15 years ago and this movie came on TCM so i watched it. Now its my all time favorite international film. It truly is a masterpiece. I went on to watch Ran and then the modern take on the Seven Samurai, 13 Assassins, another masterpiece of the genre. Also, the samurai is correct, he made that move initially with the bamboo to bring it to a draw bc he knew with actual swords how to respond. He also understood no name guy would use the same attack. Kurasawa knew what he was doing.

[@oteliogarcia1562]

Seven Samurai where you are more than 1 hour into the movie and it's still in character development, and you're not complaining at all. remade as Magnificent Seven inspired both A Bug's Life and The 13th Warrior

[@s_s-g4d]

btw you can pause and press "." (period) to watch the video frame by frame. one keypress advances one frame forward. and comma goes one frame back :). it would've been useful in this video.

[@auMr.Pocket]

In the making of the movie, the calm Samurai "Actor" had never held a sword before the filming of the movie. Quickly trained by a Kendo master coach. Quite a good student and excellent execution of martial choreography.

[@ziph3326]

I’ve seen this film many times, and I do see your point, but…I’ve always interpreted this scene as the samurai recognizing the flaw in the villagers technique. IF this had been real the Villager would have died, and of course we see that play out. I must say though, I do appreciate your knowledge of sword play and the points you made about position, thrusting and a sword being “loaded”. Not a term I’d heard used in this way before. Thank you for the video.

[@danielalbert2691]

Matt: CONTEXT!! :) Kyuzo's stance, the dialogue and the context and resolution of the sce make it crystal clear by the end that he has "won" the first round. Kyuzo's side stance: waki-gamae, back in the day often used as a deterrent against unfamiliar opponents (who would not know the precise range of the unfamiliar "hidden" blade) and also as a means to suss out an opponent. Kyuzo's stance telegraphs: I'm reading you buster. Also, the side stance conceals the orientation of the blade, hiding the intention for the next move, the next attack. ---> Rounds one and two are the same contest, and that contest was "over before the first shot fired." Now all that may or may not not have been well-know to audience of the day, but the Japanese movie goer of the 1950s would have easily picked up how Kyuzo technique (and manners and dress) is vastly superior to the poorly dressed, blustering and crude other samurai. Check out the difference in grip, sweaty mustache-man holds it like a bat as a bully boy would, while Kyuzo has his finger on the bokken like a fencer. In short, great story telling as far as that goes. The dialogue and final resolution makes it pretty obvious what is going on. For example they don't use the world "steel", but shinken, literally "real sword". He said "Had these been shinken, you'd be dead". --> Because I would have side-stepped. As he demonstrated in the second round, 'real' fight. Notice how mustache-man does the same thing as before, he yells, sword raised, etc, and so too does Kyuzo, but this time he side steps! But it's not so much a lost in translation thing, it's the CONTEXT:, the blustering man ironically yelling "This is no contest of words" (Duh!), the old lead samurai saying "This is no contest," bluster man using the SAME attack, and the final, stern, non-blinking pose Kyuzu adopts after killing his opponent. In short, masterful story telling!

[@TheHorzabora]

I agree with the many other comments here - heck, it’s something you see in ‘debates’ today between people in many circles today where modern sports and historical martial arts cross - the samurai didn’t move out of line because he knew he didn’t have to in a practice fight, the utterly reckless attack would have killed both of them in that situation, the brash attacker would be dead. He made no effort to avoid being stuck, so both attacked and defender would die. Notably, the whole concept of striking ‘with energy’ (forgive my poor translation) is common in kendo, and the peasant shows *ample* amount of this in his kai shout as he charges, but it does *absolutely nothing* to change the fight, which makes the whole concept of striking ‘with purpose/intensity/energy’ something of a mockery, passion has no place in battle, which - as I recall - was very much that particular figure’s zen-like approach. I consider this scene conceptually similar, if more ‘forceful’ (perhaps even antagonistic in terms of commentary by the director) than the ‘no mind’ scene in the Last Samurai.

[@fischbrezel]

I found the technique a long time ago in a book with excerpts from the Shinkage school and saw parallels in this duel due to the position. But the Itto Ryodan, with its deep chinryu stance, will not have been the only school to come up with the idea of presenting the shoulder as the target while hiding the blade behind the body. The way the sword is held disguises the length of the blade. However, I can understand the enthusiasm for this scene, because it shows real technique in action and not the unrealistic slashing and stabbing that is often shown.

[@konsyjes]

Yeah I noticed that too. I just figured the reason is that with real swords Kyuzo needs to avoid being cut, not just land the first contact. So he adjusted accordingly. His opponent misinterpreted the results of the mock duel for the very same reason that he lost the true sword duel. It is like in chess, an experienced player knows when the game is lost.

[@furtherdefinitions1]

Kyuzo knew he didn't need to sidestep the first time because it was just the sticks, and he was able to see what his opponent's weakness was without needing to do an evasive move. Once the real steel was drawn, everything was the same until he sidestepped, and before the killing blow, even Kanbei remarks that it is obvious what the outcome will be

[@mattrozdoba5660]

My thoughts…Having practiced iaido… he steps as he cuts. As he knows his Bamboo made contact a fraction of a second first… he would have stepped through completing his cut. The shoulder stops the cut with the wooden sword…. With the katana he completes his cut with the step into proper form. That’s the sort of hidden technique in this scene… telegraphing the mastery of this samurai

[@Wolfgang9Hype]

Looking at the end points of the first and second fights, I suspect the intent of the move is to finish dodging while striking through the target as we see in the second. Since he stopped the blow in the first one he also didn't continue moving back which would have presumably evaded the strike. Theoretically he could have struck with less force to complete the move without busting the guy's collar, but maybe that wouldn't have looked as good?

[@LagerPetrol409]

Just as a note , yes they are using makeshift bamboo shinai to emphasise that it was a friendly match ,often although as you stated bokken were used also , but they could actually be fatal or break bones , Musashi actually used a bokken for some of his real duels.

[@CuriousCrow-mp4cx]

And he used an oar to defeat his opponent in the duel at Gyuren Island. The series is being streamed on Samurai vs Ninja right now.

[@johnmaisonneuve9057]

Many comments, it does seem in the first exchange it appears to be a draw, maybe it was, maybe it wasn’t, however the comment that the first was a contrived exchange to either test the opponent or to give the opponent allowing him to save-face is interesting. I think there is something to that. If so, it shows a higher level of understanding, a superior confidence and a truer samurai comprehension. So many comments - a superb film.