Best Way to Prime MDF Tabletop Terrain Without a Rattlecan! [Ep. 04]

[@ginwilcox9555]

I've been waiting...and waiting to finally break down and buy an airbrush; happy to know that someone of your caliber uses one that doesn't cost me as much as my car payment. Great video!

[@tabletopalchemy]

Awesome! Yeah just get cheapie one and learn with that!

[@davidcashin1894]

What I love about TT Combat is those carboard building corner pieces that cover the wall joins.

[@tabletopalchemy]

Those are pretty cool and some of the roofs made from same material!

[@n2darkness]

I find sealing cut or carved MDF edges with watered down (50/50) wood glue works very well. Sometimes a 2nd coat is necessary after a light sanding as MDF sucks it up like a sponge. It's cheap and very effective, followed up by a primer of your choice before paint.

[@tabletopalchemy]

Excellent suggestion.

[@thomearle1294]

Nope, not boring. Actually well done. I liked it.

[@daviddell7780]

Came on this vid by accident. I am not a table top what's it? Anyhoo I am a retired polisher (Spray painter french polisher) Working with MDF caught my attention, most , well 90% of kitchen cabinet doors are routed from MDF then passed to the polisher shop if painted polished hi gloss surface is the finnish as opposed to shit vinyl wrap!! Well to get to the main point - ok ok I'm getting there. We first would seal the cut fluffy sections and the main uncut board with one thing and one thing only...that is normal PVA wood glue thinned down with water. That's it. This gives you so many benefits, a seal coating. The fluffy fibre of cut MDF turns hard and is able to be finely sanded, zero detail is taken away and the process is cheap and fast. Oh one more thing...great adhesion for your next coating. Try it on your model buildings and I suggest anything your going to paint.

[@tabletopalchemy]

This sounds promising, thank you! I shall try it out!

[@stevendorries]

Yellow or white or does it not matter?

[@daviddell7780]

@@stevendorries yellow or white what Steve? If you are talking about the PVA here in Australia I've only ever seen and used white. Hope that helps. PS the PVA to water ratio can be high in water. I wouldn't use any less than 50/50 at that ratio you're going to find it hard to sand the open MDF i.e. routed potentially fluffy. 60 to 70% water is fine. Sealed. Still sand able, still able to get a smooth finish.

[@stevendorries]

@@daviddell7780 yeah I was talking about the glue, yellow wood glue is slightly different than white wood glue, it has a few extra additives whereas white is just PVA

[@daviddell7780]

@@stevendorries use white pva

[@skynes]

I just got one of those TTCombat terrain sets, and so far this has been the most helpful video on how to handle the MDF. Thank you!

[@tabletopalchemy]

Awesome! I do like the mdf kits🤙🍻

[@mickk8519]

I've been painting, vanishing, shellacing, waxing, staining, polishing etc wood since we first had MDF in England around the mid 70's, my first job when I left school was as a sign writer. Anyway, obviously MDF and especially your models, won't, and shouldn't be exposed to outside weather conditions, but a lesson can be learnt from outside wood protection, which would be much better when applied for inside use. To cut a long story short, varnish is a top rank medium to use as a primer, especially as the primer for varnish, is varnish, and can be painted over if one changes ones mind for a finish. I've built a countless number of things out of MDF, and have found varnish to be one of the best primers/sealers for MDF. I have even built MDF desk tops with rounded raw edges, that have stood the test of time with just varnish on them. Therefore, for me, I feel you chose the best method of painting the model, although I would have personally used mat varnish for both coats.

[@tabletopalchemy]

Oh interesting! This is great to know, thanks!

[@BlackDouglas1000]

This is exactly what I needed to see. Thank you.

[@tabletopalchemy]

Awesome! 🍻

[@benhayden9198]

Just found your KZbin channel.....and loving it!!!! Keep on keeping on 🤟

[@tabletopalchemy]

Awesome, glad u dig it! 🤙

[@iliasmastoris529]

What you are described is 'sizing'. 'Back in the day' painters (artists, think Leonardo) would apply sizing to a canvas or linen the purpose of which was to (a) limit the absorption of the fabric, protect it from the corrosive effects of the paint, and to bring tension to the canvas (so that it would tighten like a drum). Traditionally, rabbit skin glue was used. My friends sometimes size with thinned down PVA glue on their terrain features. After which, you then apply your base coat. Historically, artists used gesso (Italian for chalk). Nowadays you can use primer. Of course, you can finish with a varnish.

[@tabletopalchemy]

This is highly informative, thank you! Ah, gesso! Had I remembered about that stuff I might have tried it too lol.

[@houdini30031]

This. Many woodworkers 'size' their end grain wood joints with wood glue. Keeps the end grain from soaking up too much glue. I'll size mine with a thin layer of glue, let it dry a bit, then use more to glue the joint.

[@kerilawrence2669]

Not a boring video at all and I am at the stage you were at at the start of the video. I've experimented with watered down emulsion paint as I was worried that acrylics would kill the detail - but not happy with the result at all. It might be time to get an air brush based on your experience. Oh, and your approach to your youtube channel and modelling is an honest breath of fresh air!

[@tabletopalchemy]

Right on, thank u! Yep I definitely am happy I got the airbrush. Even with a cheap airbrush you still gotta fork out for a compressor, but the compressor will work with any brushes you get in the future so there’s that. 🍻

[@sirrathersplendid4825]

From what I’ve read, Mod Podge is simply PVA glue with additives that give it a slightly shiny finish. It works well as a final protective coat over most terrain projects. As an MDF primer I tend to use water-thinned PVA, as I really dislike the abrasive feel of raw MDF, and a few coats of paint aren’t enough to remove the roughness. Must try some water-thinned Mod Podge to see how it compares to ordinary PVA. The huge advantage of PVA as primer is that it adds strength to all the joints, and also fills many of the inevitable gaps, while adding considerable strength to your building.

[@tabletopalchemy]

This is quite true (adding strength). A lotta suggestions have been made for wood varnish type products and a friend of mine demonstrated it, it works really well but I can’t do products with fumes like that in the apt. Good luck with your testing!

[@Cruznick06]

I find ph Neutral PVA glue to be better than ModPodge for this sort of application. ModPodge has a few issues I've run into: 1.) It can yellow over time if used as a top sealant. Especially if hit by UV light. This can take years, but I've had it happen with a few projects. 2.) It can remain tacky, especially the gloss version. 3.) It can have weird reactions with paints. This is anything thing I've noticed with older projects. Edit: I used a 3:1 (PVA glue:water) ratio and a brush-on application. I have not used it in an airbrush.

[@NoNamesLeft0102]

Best trick I've seen with Mod Podge has been to mix in a bit of black paint. Helps make it easier to see where you've applied it.

[@tabletopalchemy]

Definitely!

[@spaeron]

BIN or Zinseer shellac based primer thinned and cleaned up with denatured alcohol is my only goto for mdf. seals up end grain better than anything. super fast drying. 100% burn-in like a lacquer but multi coats aren't problematic for brushing. a dream to sand and can be taken up to a polished level fast if that's what you're after. i keep 2 airtight metal cans one for thinned primer a can to just toss the dirty brush into with a splash of denat. can be tinted or or even get clear which is sold as sanding sealer. a quick soak in the primer and its good to go. it $20 a gal. spray cans are available. it does have some stink and u need a booth if ur airbrushing for sure.

[@tabletopalchemy]

This sounds like the perfect solution but I unfortunately live in an apartment and have to work around fumes 😐 But I’ll keep this in mind for the future!

[@jesterger]

@@tabletopalchemy Zinsser 1-2-3 Latex Primer-Sealer, is a water based primer. It is quick drying, low VOC and even works on metal. It is my got to primer for everything. I worked in building maintenance for 25 years and never had a problem with using it.

[@tabletopalchemy]

Well, another product going on my list to check out, thanks!

[@stevendorries]

Do you use a 2lb cut for mdf the same as you would for solid wood or thinner?

[@tomyoung9834]

I have mdf buildings I need to paint up, so this video was very helpful!

[@tabletopalchemy]

Awesome!

[@Schocko1992]

So many thanks for this video. I have been sitting on fully built MDF and HDF terrain pieces since almost a year now and was unsure on how to approach them for priming, since I don't have any usable outside area for this. For regular miniatures I bought some very cheap electric Airbrush, a small spraying booth and a respirator and use Vallejo primer and Vallejo metal air paints for priming and base coats. This works excellent for miniatures, but I only read about some filler primer spray cans for MDF everywhere I looked. I don't have this kind of primer and I don't have anywhere to use it. Your video is exactly what I was looking for. I am now more confident in proceeding just the same way as for all my other miniatures. I also have all kinds of Vallejo airbrush varnishes here already that I will use.

[@tabletopalchemy]

So glad it was useful to you! I was in the same situation - how to prime stuff in a small indoor space lol. Hope you paint up some cool stuff!

[@danielallott]

Love this fail forwards style content, super useful

[@tabletopalchemy]

“If I can help just one person…” and that person was me, I’d be in good shape 😂🍻

[@SwordOfHeimdall]

I really liked this video and found it very useful. Subscribed! 😊

[@tabletopalchemy]

Awesome! Rest of the content isn’t too similar but maybe you’ll find some stuff that interests you 🤙🎄🍻

[@LoneEagle2061]

I seal primarily to prevent the char bleeding through the paint and my first method worked well enough that I’m still using it. I paint the entire sheet with a spirit/shellac sanding sealer, using a cotton rag to apply (covering a wide area) and allow that to dry before cutting tabs. Once the parts are free I can touch up the edges using the same method; but with a poncing action rather than smearing; the shellac will bond into dry shellac without difficulty so this achieves a unified seal pretty quickly. Because the sanding sealer is spirit based it is touch dry very quickly, and because it isn’t aerosolised I find the fumes very manageable. Note that the sealer will migrate along the surface and through the grain I have had no trouble with small through detail (such as perforated floor panels), those sorts of edges are adequately sealed by the passes over the face of the sheet.

[@tabletopalchemy]

Ah very cool. A friend of mine suggested the same type of thing but I was hesitant about fumes in an apartment lol.

[@snorkherder]

Nice, great experiment :)

[@ttzombie]

thanks for the test.

[@brianbrinegar6086]

Thank you for sharing!

[@kristinaesposito8679]

Thanks for the video! My 12-year-old is really interested in miniatures and mocks. Can you recommend a good “beginner” kit/model?

[@tabletopalchemy]

Oh nice! If they want to start out with plastic model kits places like Hobby Lobby have some good starter kits. All depends on what kind of subject matter they like. If they want to try out miniature figures, a decent affordable brand of minis is North Star (I like the Frostgrave sets, they are fantasy genre and are made for that game but they can be used anywhere, you don’t have to play the game to work with the minis). There are tons of manufacturers out there, hopefully some more folks will see this comment and add some suggestions!

[@kristinaesposito8679]

@@tabletopalchemy Thanks a lot! He loves anything WWII related, but has a broad interest in terrain and buildings in general.

[@tabletopalchemy]

Oh ok! I think North Star makes quite a variety of soldier type miniatures. Another game that has pretty cool smaller scale wwii vehicle kits is Bolt Action!

[@kristinaesposito8679]

@@tabletopalchemy Thank you! I’ll search the interwebs for that brand. I really appreciate it!

[@beezany]

The 0.3mm needle for that airbrush is pretty good with inks and airbrush paints. It works great with stuff like Golden High Flow and Vallejo Air, straight out of the bottle. I use the 0.3mm for paint and the 0.5mm for primer (Stynylrez or Vallejo Surface Primer). I've never bothered with the 0.2mm needle. If you decide to experiment with it, check the needle first. I own two Master brushes and BOTH of them arrived out-of-the-box with a hooked point on the 0.2mm needles. Those brushes really are a great deal, which is why I have two. I got tired of switching between the needles and decided that it was easier to just have two handles (plus then I have a spare in case anything goes wrong). If you only do light airbrush work, it's all the airbrush you need. If you end up getting more into airbrush work, the Iwata HP-CS is a great upgrade. It's got a very similar feel, just better build quality and easier to break down & clean. I had originally planned to keep using the Masters for rough work like priming & varnishing, but the HP-CS is such a joy to use (and so easy to change needles) that I ended up just using it all the time. I still have the two Masters as a spare in case I ever need a spare.

[@tabletopalchemy]

Excellent! I was just thinking about getting a second one in order to have the .5 and .3 ready to go. I haven’t sprayed inks yet but plan to at some point. Awesome, thanks!

[@beezany]

@@tabletopalchemy Oh yeah, that is totally worth it!

[@jimdavis8391]

I prime MDF with watered-down pva glue, works fine for cabinetry.

[@robot7759]

Fine 😉

[@sebbychou]

I also found that stylyrnez primer work well, and since they have a nice collection of colors they can do basecoats, unlike most other primers. Terrible experience with rattle can paints straight on mdf tho.

[@blazecorp]

Not a bad video at all and informative. Consider me subscribed.

[@tabletopalchemy]

Consider me much obliged! 🍻

[@lynnleigha580]

Still looks cool 😎

[@LathanM]

I design and sell both MDF and birtch plywood kits and treat it like wood because well it is. Seal the kits with a standard brush/rub on wood sealer or sanding sealer. Poly or water-based doesn't matter. I prefer Minwax products as they are the most available and are cheap. The key is to make sure you hit the end grain as it can leach out into your topcoat over time. This is most true with whites and light grey. You will see a yellow cast shadow when this happens.

[@tabletopalchemy]

Ah, good suggestions, thank you!

[@skizilla]

Word, I use MDF as bases for modular scenery pieces on a slot car track and I hit them with one coat of sanding sealer before building on them, it keeps the MDF from swelling after the application skulpt-a-mold and stuff like that, and a little goes a LONG way.

[@StoneCosta]

"But hopefully if you live in a space where you can't rattle can, and you've got a cheap airbrush, and you haven't worked with MDF terrain kits before..." That's me exactly and this video is perfect.

[@tabletopalchemy]

Lol right on 🤙🍻

[@krzysztofmathews738]

Glad to see this comparison. I'm actually wondering if these observations hold true for dense chipboard style cardboard stock. I just laser cut some treads out of 2mm chipboard for a scratchbuild robot the other day, and am debating the best way to seal them for painting with acrylics. As regarding MDF, do you have any thoughts or suggestions for where folks might affordably purchase MDF sheets for laser cutting their own designs?

[@tabletopalchemy]

Oh hmm I don’t work with Mdf much, but I know home laser cutters are pretty common nowadays so I imagine there must be some decent suppliers out there. My apologies for not being more helpful!

[@PatGilliland]

I use grey artist's gesso for just about everything. It dries thin with a flat toothy finish and is purpose designed to seal wood panels and canvas. On figures it sucks right into the detail and will even tolerate a little gloopiness in application without obscuring any detail. Relatively cheap too.

[@tabletopalchemy]

You use gesso to prime miniatures? Meaning figures? I never would have thought that would work! I shall have to try that out sometime.

[@jamesb.7859]

Just FINE

[@tabletopalchemy]

😂🍻

[@steampunk8036]

Brother, you crack my ass up! - Rick, USMC

[@tabletopalchemy]

🍻

[@MarinaPacowski]

Bravo! 😊

[@pezpengy9308]

i rather enjoyed the absorption quality of the mdf. i just kept washing it up until it arrived where i wanted it. cheap walmart apple barrel paints too. the washes keep all of the printed detail. i have to be honest it looks pretty good.

[@tabletopalchemy]

Having done the tests now for myself, I no longer think losing detail is at all something to worry about. The airbrush for me is just a bit easier and smoother of a finish than brush painting but I think it’s all good.

[@theboredtrucker3898]

Just found this channel and while im loving the content i can't get something out of my head.... i feel like this is Neil Gaimans American brother who got into D&D instead of books.

[@tabletopalchemy]

Lol, that’s appropriate in only one sense - he got all the talent in the family 😂 My early 20s were filled with a lotta his and Clive Barker’s work (and William Gibson lol)

[@JohnMiller99]

you said "go paint something .." well I think I will😎

[@tabletopalchemy]

🍻!

[@herbveitenhans3285]

Have you tried decanting the rattlecan paint?

[@tabletopalchemy]

I’ve done that in a shop environment but I wouldn’t use any kind of lacquer inside my apt, I have a difficult time with fumes that aren’t acrylic/water based 😐

[@johndavid2290]

Hes even got a cool name lol

[@lynnleigha580]

That's the bad thing about getting your product patented, you have to put out there exactly how you made it, and then someone else can come along and make the same thing, but change a couple of nonsense pieces and boom, before you know it, they're selling cheap knockoffs of your design/products

[@tabletopalchemy]

Yep constant risk everywhere - same with giving screenplays to producers lol!