📢 Best & Worst Tuning Practices | MASS DEBATE

[@haltech]

It's the debate you've all been asking for! We've invited Andy Wyatt (Adaptronic/Haltech), Adam Neish (Just Engine Management) and of course, Scott (aka Tuning Fork) to talk about tuning fails, DOs and DON'T and offer their hints and tips on how to get your car tuned quickly, efficiently and safely. What was your worst or best tuning experience? Let us know in the comments section!

[@dalaw6600]

Haltech needs to partner with a app company to make a Tuning Simulator where you run different cars on dynos and have to go through tuning it to make it run as good as you can and clean up the fuel maps to get a high score think this would help people who are intrested

[@260k1s]

I'd pay for that

[@chromaticwolf7433]

There is a game called automation that seems to be the best we got. You tune the hardware to make more power or more fuel efficiency ect by adjusting intake size, turbo compressor and or turbine size, boost pressure ect. It is a tone of fun and is decently realistic I would highly recommend checking it out. Ever wondered how much power a 4L 4cyl engine would make with a 100mm turbo. Or how much power a 500cc engine on nitromethane with a 15:1 compression ratio and a turbo bigger than the motor could make before grenading. Maybe you dream of hanging a 2000hp iron block drag motor out the back of a smart car with a 1.8m wheel base just to see if you can make it do a back flip on the street. Well, if you have these thoughts and don't feel like sending you and your own car to space (and your wallet) then this game is perfect for you.

[@neil0077]

From a experienced retired tuner, a tuner REQUIRES a thorough knowledge of the mechanical side of the engine and whole package. - Most useful tip I have for your viewers is NEVER believe that any work (either electrical, mechanical, or tuning) done before you received the car has been done correctly. - Most often faults in cars brought to the dyno would be in this order: low level fuel in tank, wiring issues, fuel pumps, h.t. leads, old plugs. - As for most interesting problem/fault, in my first year of professionally tuning, I had a race car that tuned up great on the dyno with owner very happy but went bad later when checking the tune on the track. After every lap the engine would run richer and with noticeable lower top speed down the straight. After 5 laps and leaning it out 5 times with no reason or problem observed from a engine management point I had to insist to the owner he had a engine problem. I was a young tuner and he was a retired tuner and engine guy from TWR so it was a very big call to make! I was pleased, and have respect for his integrity, when a week later he came back and told me the external oiling system he had built for the cams wasn’t working as expected and the cam lobes were badly worn down! The moral of that story is that if you are sure with your diagnosis and beliefs don’t be afraid to stick with it, if you don’t have confidence to trust your decisions how can you expect your customers to have trust in you.

[@Christdeliverme]

HAHA, I legit did not expect Andy to wear anything different than that! Some of my favorite Aussie legends all in one room!

[@802Garage]

Best: Bring it to Tuning Fork. Worst: Facebook Marketplace "street tune" yo.

[@forbiddenera]

We advertise on FB, we offer street tunes..we are some of the best around but I don't disagree with you in general.

[@802Garage]

@@forbiddenera Haha mostly joking around. It's more "I'm Frank, yeah I do tunes for $50 and a 30 rack." that you need to worry about. ;)

[@forbiddenera]

@@802Garage probably doesn't help that older Honda's are what I have the most experience in haha

[@krc306]

Gary from gumtree does a great tune

[@tortron]

Mail order tunes

[@digzydoogan4932]

I agree 💯 with practicing checking over the car for how ever long it takes before tuning starts, that couple of hrs checking over things equals piece of mind..

[@ohcamsrazor1966]

Best episode yet. Prepare prepare prepare. Sounds like the message. And a full tank of fuel. Good to see that going to guys like you, you have already served your’ apprenticeship’ and are at the top of your game.

[@tx5brent]

Good to see Andy back sharing his knowledge on KZbin!

[@iwanttobeamole]

Fantastic Video. I'm a "home guy" and have built a number of cars in my own (or mates) garage. The biggest question mark has always been the tune, and tuner. I've never had a check list provided by the tuner or for that matter, any direction at all. This is awesome info and great from the other side of the table to help me make sure I'm presenting the car to the tuner in the best state it can be. Thanks guys! P.S. None of my cars have exploded yet!

[@haltech]

"None of my cars exploded yet!" - Love it:) Keep up the good work!

[@harleydaun3847]

You know Scotty, I did a very similar thing with my brother. Working on his na miata we had just put a standalone in, accidentally got a tiny thread of wire in the wideband controller, shorted the microcontroller out and it died. We were also right at the same time checking our base timing. Set it to 10 degress BTDC. Come back 2 weeks later with a new wideband controller. After 20-30 minutes of driving around being really confused why it is so slow and I can smell so much fuel it hits me. That little ignition gauge I'm looking at on my laptop has been on 10 degrees this whole time. Turned off fixed-timing and it was beautiful. We probably spent a good 15 minutes speculating.. Is a valve stuck? Did the crank pulley slip? Is the ignition coil dying?? Nope, just forgot to turn it off before we finished up last time

[@doubl33Ace]

I tuned a 86 with a 4age 20v for customer a few months back and I noticed we were losing power after about the 5th pull, particularly at midrange to top end. The power just kept dropping on subsequent runs. I went through all the sensors, calibration, timing, trigger, etc and everything seemed to be fine. Inspected sparks and performed engine compression test and all was fine as well. Finally, I noticed a lot of metallic particles out of the tailpipe and around the rear of the car. The car had a catalytic converter and the cat had failed and clogged up the exhaust system which caused major exhaust restriction.

[@thymetodream6084]

In regards to catalytic converters, I've seen the insulation blow out from the first honeycomb pack strait into the face of the second, thus causing the restriction and the rattle can symptoms. Another reason for this failure I've seen, besides old age, is if un-combusted fuel enters the exhaust and ignites. I've come to believe that cats don't like explosions!

[@16vg60mikey]

As an aspiring tuner thanks for sharing the hard earned knowledge!

[@Kaxlon]

100% agreed with all your points, guys. Every beginner/hobby tuner should make a PDF and print out, or atleast keep that PDF on their laptop or phone. But hey, paper don't run out of battery. ;) My personal demand is a AFR meter and a boost gauge, or I will never touch the car, not even "take it for a spin". Greetings from Sweden! =) /Kim. 1991 GVR4.

[@rainvillecreative5410]

Glad they mentioned the difficulty of the FSAE cars, I was on a team that ran a single cylinder turbo KTM450 that was a nightmare. It was a smart choice going single cylinder given how small the intake restriction was, since most the teams that run 4 cylinders seem to have trouble with them getting choked out. However there were more inconsistencies- the intake pressure was very cyclic, and even the engine RPM was varying quite a bit every cycle from the valvetrain and compression.

[@Tony-ib2vm]

Displacement is a waste in fsae, everyone doesn't realize there is no minimum weight. Why carry all that engine, if you cannot use it... Look at the vacuum diagram of a tl1000r. There are jets and a canister upstream of the iaps/map sensor, to smooth the pulses.

[@rainvillecreative5410]

@@Tony-ib2vm Our team was one of the lightest tube frame cars, 373 pounds wet I believe thanks to the motor that weighed about 65 pounds. Big intake plenums can help too with smoothing the pressure out, but still a challenge.

[@sirspamalot4014]

Wish I'd joined one of these teams before they went all electric, doesn't have the same appeal to me anymore. Even though I'm studying electrical engineering, ICE is just more interesting to me.

[@rainvillecreative5410]

@@sirspamalot4014 There's still ICE cars, it's been a separate class from the electric as far as I know

[@sirspamalot4014]

@@rainvillecreative5410 Well my uni's team isn't interested in running them anymore

[@johnsnow5239]

Great video. So many small things we forget to look at. Brings back memories. My first car was a Datsun 1200GX coupe. Turbo charged the original 1200 engine. Toyota 2e pistons. Custom intake plenum and a 4age throttle body. Stock crank and rods. Made 148kw at the wheels. Was a laugh when everyone thought I was running a 4AGE twincam until I opened the bonnet....

[@AJsWorld]

I enjoy watching guys mass debate

[@haltech]

LOL sure you do...

[@JordyValentine]

Having done my apprenticeship in Australia and during the time that commodores and falcons were cheap, I know them like the back of my hand, hand me something euro and it's a headache because I actually need to call on my diagnostic knowledge and years of experience rather than just knowing what's probably wrong like I do when a commodore or falcon rolls into the workshop

[@hoonaticbloggs5402]

Interesting hearing him mention the bike engines with plenum instead of individuals. I’m a bike tech by trade , but have an ls1 with a big cam and went with an itb set up , because I know how bikes use big overlap with no issues

[@ianm432]

2j vvti has got me twice on weird issues. One where the engine had been assembled by another shop with the timing marks with the dots vs notches mixed up put the intake cam way out. It actually ran but sounded like a Bridgeport. The other was an engine assembled by another shop that must have dropped the crank trigger wheel. They would have dropped it, looked at it and it was fine. Fast forward to getting that engine running, first crank it was perfect for 30 seconds and then never again. We even pulled the crank sensor and looked dead on at the crank trigger wheel to count the teeth. Looked fine down the sensor hole. Pulled our hair out for a week, missed an event before pulling the front of the engine apart to find a tooth missing.

[@jbm3458]

Really good EP!!! your a good bunch of humble men, with a good passion for cars :) exactly what all industries need

[@MrWilliam.Stewart]

You guys are awesome. To me modifying a car has always been about improving the performance of the nut behind the wheel. Modify the driver is my religion, that said I have a lot of respect for yo your engineering mind's and skills. T thanks guys.

[@chi3f_9th_nine52]

My first car when I was 17 back in 2001 was a 1974 2 door valiant lancer with the cordia 1.8 turbo 💪

[@stevemcrichards8768]

I don't know about a debate, much prefer a conversation. This was a good conversation.

[@cartruck1070]

I wish politicians would learn to debate like this. Very informative to understand things correctly and to make your correct choices and steps to each choice. Thanks fellas.

[@turbotrana]

My advice is to always use the lambda sensor bolted in the dump pipe or closest to the engine. Never in the tailpipe. I sometimes even use two wide bands to make sure reading right. EMS had a feature that data logged average lambda at the load point that helped heaps. I never used dynos although would of helped in the 500hp+ region with a good load bearing dyno. I don't recommend street tuning either but can do most low and medium points with it, actually better on the road.

[@CarminesRCTipsandTricks]

That was fun to watch! I'm from a different World... 56 years old, Old School Carb expert... I value guys like you because I definitely can't "tune" a computer!!! 😳 I've got my 😖 story... Rebuilding and setting up a Holley 4150. Got complacent. Set it in the car and started it up, ran like sh!t! Bogging, flooding and spilled fuel all over the Manifold. Took the Carb apart again, to find I FORGOT to fit the power valve back in!!! So "jetting" was a 3/8" HOLE in the bottom of the float bowl. 😡😡😡😡 Lesson 10 - NEVER ASSUME! Carmine ✈🚂🚙

[@ifluro]

As a first year app, I rebuilt the carby on my 4a-fe, set timing, etc. No power. Pulled the carb back apart twice, still no good. Senior tech had a look, turns out I got the timing marks wrong, running 10 after tdc.... 😳

[@gavinb9627]

A hard learned lesson never to be forgotten

[@josephschaefer9163]

90 percent of carb problems is ignition related

[@munnsie100]

Ahh, the venerable 3T-GTE! Love those. Adam will probably never see this, but I must highly commend his work on our Hilux. Love it to bits!

[@andrew1977au]

measure fuel flow on the return line under load to make sure fuel is returning, an easy way to see if your running out of pump.

[@User78347]

Had a mate who had a 7AGE KE70 with a bespoke ECU that was pretty much in an old lunch box. Thinking it might have been an Andy special from back in the day.

[@dinosshed]

Was his name Justin? If yes that was a silicone chip/jaycar lunchbox ecu.

[@normpaul5322]

Hey guys! Thanks for the great video, I can 100% relate on all the issues you've had.... My worst experience was having a car run on a map tumed for VP Import.... Then forget to switch it back to the 93 map when we pumped it back... So a hod one would be "don't forget to switch maps when tuning for different fuels" lol Love the video again guys, you should do more of these! Norman AlphaSpeed from Puerto Rico

[@siriansight]

Omg this is gold Thank you for putting this together & posting 🙏

[@dosepipesutututu]

Go Andy! Helped with diagnosing a Fuel Pulsation issue I had on a client's car years ago.

[@pepperfish_]

When tuning with any ECU, Don't forget to turn run in "closed loop" (without fuel and ignition trim), and raise knock threshold on engines with knock sensors, i learned the hard way, LOL.

[@kensmechanicalaffair]

That first part was crucial.

[@seanedwards1838]

What an excellent video Scotty, great job for lads like me who are new to getting a car tuned

[@maijhiselemani458]

Thank you Haltech... very informative...

[@dinosshed]

In short, make sure you've got your 'strap on' and always suspect everyone is a numpty.

[@JaegerWrenching]

Anyone getting into tuning and wanting to know the best advice listen to @32:20 this sums up what you need to know.

[@aussiefirestorm]

Thank you guys this is a very informative video. Every day should be a learning day and double check everything, words to live by in this trade.

[@TAZSOB]

Great video once again. I've got a Nissan N12 turbo from 86 in the garage. It's the version of the Nissan pulsar we had in the UK that Andy had. Great cars. I will be coming to you for the ECU when I get around to getting it on the road.

[@GettingFiggyWitIt]

Oh yes! Fresh Haltech vids!

[@ECMUnltd]

This was such a good interview! Quick comment on the section of the engines they like to tune the most. It was immediately apparent that they both like the challenge of tuning the same thing. The only difference is scale. If they compare notes I bet they solve each others problems!! Thanks for this one Tuning Fork! I tuned my brain with this!

[@ECMUnltd]

Side comment. Im fairly certain the reason your pumps need more current is simply the way your attempting to pump (suck) up the water. I can easily say its the fluid dynamics that are the problem. If we study Viktor Schaubergers work on water and fluid dynamics. Fluids dont really have resistance, this goes against alot of common beliefs. If you simply change the area that has suction to something that will allow the water to vortex you will immediately find you wont need any electricity and UP your flow.

[@jdcarguy1242]

Nice piece Scott. With outputs climbing so quickly even at the oem level, do you see a need for individual per cyl wideband monitoring vs. bank monitoring?

[@haltech]

Absolutely, the more data we have the better the tune will be. If it's possible to get a wideband sensor per cylinder and exhaust gas temperature per cylinder we can essentially tune the engine per cylinder!

[@DodgyBrothersEngineering]

@@haltech is individual AFRs taking over from EGTs as the primary means of monitoring individual cylinders?

[@NB-im6od]

Scotty,Andy, Adam & Haltech. Thanks You great subject information is everything keep up the great work. Need more like this.

[@StatiXonfirE]

Their stories would make a fantastic podcast!

[@c0c0asauce]

Being able to doubt the previous work done was something I had to get over.

[@michaelhowatson8832]

I had a clevo that kept retarding timing every time I backed off over 3500 rpm. Turns out the vacuum advance was letting the inner and outer magnetic ring touch and then the inner ring would retard. New drive pin and shaft bush and never missed a beat since

[@lancasterjim2441]

So true such good content. You Australians are really into tuning thank you for sharing.

[@Concept5North]

Andy's T-shirt sums it up really well. If you've ever used Adaptronic vs Haltech - Adaptronic is engine management software for a software engineer, Haltech is engine management software for an engine builder or designer. Every time I see a car with Adaptronic I sigh, and know the pain that owner or tuner has been through. Haltech every time :-)

[@darrenroberts1468]

Best one yet, Cheers Scott

[@djkarmafarmerfreespiritcol5854]

This is so awesome. This series just takes everything to the next level. I've always wanted to learn how to tune cars and these videos give an amazing insight into that world. Keep it going guys 👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍

[@ifgezroxy]

Pretty impressive combined iq levels in one room. Plus 3 very nice and knowledgeable guys talk about the most interesting aspect of building a car. Best video of 2020 so far, and most likely whole year.

[@andrew1977au]

Find out what clutch is in the car, ive seen one explode (owner fitted) and take out the gearbox, back of engine, and pieces go through the floor and break the dash.

[@haltech]

Nasty!....

[@andrew1977au]

@@haltech indeed, I still have a few pictures somewhere, pieces stuck in the dyno room walls and the clutch slave cylinder made it out the shop. Cheap eBay parts...the usual shit we see

[@camrothor22]

Awesome video guys! Lots of great tips, Thanks!

[@asifdurr]

Really enjoyed this video! Love the content and info. Hoping to see more of such discussions in the future.

[@barra245t2]

My first cat was a datsun 1600,no turbo,it had a l20b with twin carbs navarra 5spd and a legacy 4.1:1 lsd.

[@johnsnow5239]

Nice. I also had a datto. Thinking of building another. Did u have to shorten that diff to fit? Or was it a IRS diff?

[@barra245t2]

@@johnsnow5239 no it's an IRS unit.subaru and nissan had the housings made by Fuji heavy industries,so there exactly the same.easy swap just had to swap the Subaru spline to nissan flange for the half shafts.

[@dee1089]

please explain andy's shirt. also would love to see a vid for the general public on realistic expectations, with nightmare examples. i feel this is needed more as ecu tuning and such gets more popular.

[@haltech]

It's the Speed Density Fuel Mass Equation - www.mathworks.com/help/autoblks/ug/spark-ignition-engine-simple-speed-density-breathing-model-1.html

[@mercedescherokee6853]

@@haltech I need this, where can I buy that?

[@mr265t]

Great video guy's, keep it up 👍

[@honestjim1000]

I had a starion turbo with an old haltech auxiliary twin injector driver thing and it never blew up!

[@dannyman01]

Oh man... checking for issues before even cracking open the laptop. I keep falling for this! 😅

[@Noelly1980]

Awesome video Scott. Very interesting.

[@TURBOTRISTO]

this is awesome please do more!!!! ADAM IS A LEGEND! ask evan from unigroup and stix from quickbitz!!!

[@PinkuStyle]

All top notch guys. Good watch!

[@javierjaimes111]

Thank you for the knowledge guys! Good stuff!

[@2511jeremy]

Awesome video guys!!!!! From Canada 🇨🇦

[@lukeemmo02]

My Rb25det chewed out the teeth on the exhaust cam many years ago. Stock ect even then took myself and 2 seperate workshops to finally find it. New oem stock cam good to go!

[@bigbothoee8617]

How come we don't see more of Andy ? Miss that guy

[@4dirt2racer0]

those little tiny cars r hilarious to watch run around the track :p

[@MrPanda834]

Fantastic video! Loved it!

[@Built_it_by-alex]

Very good info but no one mentioned a dirty air filter

[@djambrosia]

Great stuff guys, thanks for your time.

[@5thgearouttahere]

Would love a really in-depth video with Andy, live on the 1s & 2s 🥼👨🏼‍💻🏆

[@3800TURBO]

I'm guilty of the empty fuel cell when tuning lol.

[@3800TURBO]

Also had a mental breakdown at a track event where I couldn't connect to our cars ecu with laptop. Tried many times with no go.. Could not work out why.. then a few days later my mate tells me he put the latest windows 7 Ultimate on the lappy I use for tuning...... being only a cheapo lappy I checked it.. No memory left. Went back to Windows basic. Problem solved. Grrrrr.

[@FightingSportsMedia]

LOVE this content guys!

[@daesyoung]

yall know Andy..Wyatt's a g

[@davidmaye3580]

Meanwhile can we compare the differences between halltech stuff and something like the MS3 Pro?

[@MJTAUTOMOTIVE]

I don't think a company would do a comparison with someone else's product. You whould need to go to a independent Tuner for that sort of information.

[@Cheo.M]

😄 we got a shout out 🇵🇷!

[@firdooze09]

PAGE UP! PAGE UP!

[@road_2_pow_r]

thanks guys, learned alot,

[@tojiroh]

Next episode: Master Debater meets Cunning Linguist (love the videos, keep em coming) (uhh, I mean- oh fuck it)

[@Liam-ey2gs]

What is the best method for testing ignition timing in a COP setup using an inductive timing light?

[@curiouskid30]

I've always been a fan of the mass-debate.

[@mikeylikesit1581]

Garbage in garbage out great video 👌🏽thx

[@JlerchTampa]

While I don't believe in superstition, I know I might be wrong, so does that make me superstitious? IE: Straps, Covers, 'Pretty Panels', Never install all of them until they are needed!

[@npharkes]

Congrats on 200.000 subs!!!

[@haltech]

Thanks:)

[@coolkidscarclub]

So best practice is ensure the basic fundamental stuff is dialed in properly first.

[@haltech]

That's one of the most important things for sure:)

[@trustfire]

Eyy my first turbo car was an n12 exa as well!

[@ericgriffin5504]

Can you PLLLEEEASSSEEEE elaborate more about battery ground!? I just relocated my battery to my trunk

[@haltech]

Here you go! kzbin.info/www/bejne/qmbFaHaVp8-Neqc & kzbin.info/www/bejne/n6amenZnfc97jKM

[@Custompcxd2]

andy is so humble

[@michaelcjohnsonmj]

I like the Oklahoma Plate you guys have, how did yall get that a fan mail you their old one?

[@haltech]

A souvenir from out trip to visit our Street Outlaws friends at OK.

[@shannonbrisco4293]

That was great! Thank you

[@gav240z]

30:32 like any new relationship introducing the strap on should come a bit later, after you've got to know each other a bit better.

[@haltech]

and hence the name of this playlist....

[@tortron]

Ease into it

[@salloroc20]

I wanna know more about the 4AGTE! Where can I learn more about Adam's car?

[@unchartedgroupielove]

Cordia turbo was one of the best worst 80s cars ever. I miss all my 80s nuggets. 86' prelude, 89' Swift GTI, 85' cordia. All of them driven into the ground by an ignorant younger me.

[@BaseSRKI]

Made my day!

[@gradertfamilymakes]

I cannot make out the shirt. But I do see the the Molar density of air there.

[@donr62]

I accept that bikes are a small part of your business but I’d love to hear some of you bike success stories.

[@haltech]

We have a few coming soon:)

[@jamesphilpott4241]

My dad's been in the trade for 30 year I been in trade 7year. We ask each other for help.

[@Portaportoopoo]

Awesome video

[@motardtommy]

My first turbo car was a n12 exa!!!!!