Betfair trading | Could you make £100,000 a year?

I've often asked the question, "How much can I make trading?"
But it's a loaded question. If you are Betfair trading you really should be looking at the question from a different perspective.
Trading is seasonal, depending on the underlying sport you are trading, but it also requires you to think it terms of how many markets you are going to trade over what time period.
Thinking like that will allow you to reduce your risk, but hit some bigger targets that you have in mind.
Trying to chase down a specific monetary target, will most likely lead you to take on too much risk as just the wrong moment.

[@grahambeyer6254]

Can you please explain how to measure the amount of profit available in a race occuring on the next day given the characteristics?

[@thescallytrader]

Greyhound racing is the best "market place" to be trialing new automation files as they come around every few minutes. As always, trial your automation files in practice mode for a few weeks first.

[@betangeltv]

That's a good piece of advice.

[@zebreid2798]

Great Video and comment stream. Thank you Peter. I'm toying with the idea of automating all my edges so my time is free to being doing more data and result analysis and well as edge hunting. My main motivation is that i live in SE Asia while trading in Aus and UK markets. The time zones play havoc my ability to trade in real time and still have a life. I notice that in a lot of your Video's you indicate that you still manually trade some markets. Do you do this out of necessity, habit or because you enjoy manual trading? Are you aware of any impediment to fully automating day to day trading?

[@alexmajoni]

When I first started I was not organised as I planned to make 100£ a day then I saw that it puts pressure on yourself and take more risk. So I did what Peter was talking about and automation is the way forward. 3£ per market and an average of 400 markets a week, with a bank of 500£.

[@temp911Luke]

400 markets a week ? Thats quite a lot ! Say you have 30 races a day on average thats barely 210 markets. In order to achieve your target im pretty sure you would also have to bet on greyhounds (which is slightly riskier) or football (the same risk)

[@alexmajoni]

I trade on football, cricket, basketball. On average I trade on around 200 football markets with 30£ per market with a target of 1.65£ profit and 140 horses with stakes of 50£ with target of 1.5£ profit and cricket with large stakes of 100£ with target of of 15£ plus as it's easy to trade so 100k a year is achievable so long you don't become greedy and stray away from your plans.

[@alexmajoni]

@Jon Commons only use automation on football goals, under 1.5 and 2.5, lay the draw other markets like cricket and horses I trade myself as I'm not there yet with the right strategies to be profitable

[@betangeltv]

Hidden in that comment is a really sensible bit of advice. Don't be greedy.

[@garyrathmell9834]

@@alexmajoni I am interested in the under 2.5 goals market and would I be correct in thinking that it would not be difficult to automate a strategy to enter the market and stay in for 10 minutes andbtrade out at the price given ro make app 10 % per game ?? Of course there would have to be a lot of games to account for the losses ...

[@innercircle341]

Great advice. I naturally used PL as a measure of the success of strategies. Not as a goal. Bit like a tape measure used in dieting. If you are getting a smaller waist on the measure the diet must be working

[@betangeltv]

Great tip!

[@nunomag7214]

Thanks for all videos, they are very instructive especially for having the right approach and not chasing false hopes. I have a question: How do you make 50,000 trades in a year? Is it essential to automate your strategies?

[@martinwhite829]

Hi Peter, I'm not sure of the meaning of the word 'support'. I was watching a tutorial last week and the person said that the favourite had little support (£172k had been traded on it) and then he said there was some support for the second and a little bit for the third (which both had far less traded on them). What does this mean exactly?

[@betangeltv]

It's often used completely incorrectly in sports markets. A mish-mash of financial markets and sporting advice. I'd really need to see the market to tell you if it was correct or not. It could be as simple as the fact that the money has stopped coming for something.

[@mathiaskrokus3849]

I have been looking for an automation stratergy like the one described in the video, namely: more wins than losses and slightly higher average win amounts than average loss amounts. Looking for small, incremental gains over time rather than big occasional windfalls with lots of losses. Are you willing to share the automated strategy mentioned in the video?

[@andyshortland]

🙄

[@betangeltv]

You have to be realistic and realise that you have to find your own way. Nobody is going to share an oven-ready profitable strategy. If you look at that £60k over ten years, it's worth half a million. So you would need to pay AT LEAST that for something that profitable. Or create your own!

[@theultimaterelaxationcolle4878]

hey Peter, great stuff listening to you! To a complete newbie its a real eye opener into this world! Wondering if you have any plans to do videos on sports arbing ? I noticed a few days back a SP price difference between a betfair Back price and a Bet365 Back price (1.6 and 1.5 respectively). My brain cant work out how to go about it, but my instinct tells me that thats a potential profit situaton? Thanks for any help, and keep up the great videos!

[@betangeltv]

You would back it on B365 and lay it on Betfair. You would net the profit between the two. But you may find that Bet365 try and limit you after a few times of doing this.

[@1faustus]

Look after the pennies and the pounds will look after themselves. I look for a market that has regular behaviour that lends itself to a strategy I like, then learn to trade it with tiny amounts and iron out the pitfalls and bad temptations. When I have a good few hundred trades with consistent monthly profit then start the scaling up process and see how far you can take it without undue increase in risk. There is a natural ceiling in each market, especially tiny ones. When you reach that, just be happy with your monthly swag, get the trading to second nature and move on to find another market. Learn to use BetAngel to keep more payers in play without spending too much time on them, leaving you free to concentrate on the higher payers.

[@betangeltv]

Good advice

[@offlimit88]

Looking at your strategy, i don see any drawdown. How can you achieve that? Have you an edge bigger than 7/10 %? So the key is : more edges, more strategies, more markets, more quantity over quality?

[@betangeltv]

Drawndowns are very minor, but that's mainly due to to the fact I'm taking a tiny edge and applying across a lot of markets so when you zoom out, you don't really see any downside. It's just a gradual creep upwards.

[@smartpunts5372]

Whats the automation strategy and how long did it take to make that 60-70k ? Bankroll required for that ?

[@betangeltv]

I think it was pre-off horse racing. Starting bank of £1k.

[@mpld1979]

Wise advice sir.

[@placebo64]

Thank you, sir. Any more feedback about your automated strategy, please? 🙂

[@betangeltv]

Most of the stuff I do is a variation on what we put in the forum. You can browse the files here: - www.betangel.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=43

[@temp911Luke]

Its easy to say: all you need to do is bet in 50.000 markets a year and make a profit "only" of £2 on each :) My question is this: WIll there be a pattern to spot in each of those markets to make £2 every time? Coz if there is no pattern there is no trade (unless you want to force market but it never ends up well) Its a great concept in general i even like very much however decreasing stake will not improve strike rate which is the key here, unless...again, there is a pattern. You could have had 100 races today but if there was no pattern you wouldnt have made a single penny.

[@betangeltv]

You would be surprised how simple some strategies are, but of course you need some edge. I'm just pointing our how slight that edge needs to be.

[@rhysjaggar4677]

Return on stake is the most reasonable target, obviously reasonable returns are different in different types of markets, but 1% return is certainly possible on most. That means 2000 units of £10 staked with a £2 downside risk each time will earn you a doubling of a £200 bank. If you can stake 100 units a day, twenty times a month, you can double a bank in one month.

[@betangeltv]

Good advice. I think it's the best way of achieving longer term profitability.

[@handeyecoordinationskills]

Can you give me an example of what you bet on please and how much the stake is? I mostly bet on football

[@betangeltv]

Most of my activity is on horse racing markets as they provide a lot of opportunities and quite a bit of variability.

[@handeyecoordinationskills]

@@betangeltv ok thanks, I'm winning lately on score predictions, I cover scores from 1-1's to 2-1's with 2 matches , there a 9 possibilities , so far so good 😊

[@FTSsjc]

Is there anyone here that actually profits from automated betting? Any thoughts on other software?

[@betangeltv]

Have a look at my twitter timeline where I'll often post P&L's or visit the forum and have a chat with others on the same path.

[@paulcarey9248]

Still waiting on your live trading videos

[@malcolmwasher2308]

Lol he has years of vidoes on that

[@betangeltv]

Y, not sure what that comment means to be honest?

[@malcolmwasher2308]

@@betangeltv neither do as u have over 5 years worth of it ????????

[@grahambeyer6254]

Are you using a stop loss in this strategy?

[@betangeltv]

One way or another you use a stop loss of sorts whether it's an actual one or a through market selection.

[@andrewrutherford123]

Great video! You did mention that you had alot of automated bets going on. How does it affect you when Betfair goes down? One of my strategys is scalping with large amounts of money but I have been cought when it goes down lossing large amounts and back to square one not because of the strategy but because Betfair goes down! Is there anything we can do because they have no answers they just say oh well!

[@mediapc4747]

You're staking too high for your level of experience if this is a concern for you. An experienced trader knows that due to market efficiency you win as much as you lose when positions inadvertantly run so if a series of losing incidents puts a large percentage of your working capital at risk, then you're too exposed.

[@temp911Luke]

If you are so concerned about betfair going down why dont you sign up to betdaq or smarkets or matchbook ?

[@andrewrutherford123]

@@mediapc4747 thank you for reply best way I can explain it is with the financial markets if your scalping Google for a couple of ticks the the platform goes down it's not like it opens 3 hours later and it's move 2 dollars 3 hours later in sports trading the event is over and all your thousands have gone. That's why it is so bad on sports trading that the platform goes down.

[@andrewrutherford123]

@@temp911Luke thank you for your reply. I have a betdaq account it's hard to finance it to a decent level tho if you have backed on Betfair at 6 and it goes down I have to lay at the same price on betdaq so a 2000 pound scalp is alot to lay at 6. I think the point I'm trying to make is why does Betfair go down so much! Sports book doesn't skybet coral betfred these all never go down. And when you have had a loss all Betfair say is oh well! Crazy

[@betangeltv]

For me, it sort of comes out in the mix. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose and it all averages out. Doesn't make it right, but you have to put it in the model. I tend to use markets that accept BSP so I can use that as a catch all for any issues. It means I have a guaranteed exit.

[@bigjohn5460]

Do you have to be a real die hard sports fan to do tradkng.already do MT but don't really need to be a follower of the sport but keep getting drawn to this

[@mediapc4747]

Short answer is no. I and several others I know of have been sucessfully trading for years and couldn't give a toss about sport. The advantage you have is not having your analysis coloured by opinion, markets don't give a damn what you think and you can be brutally pragmatic.

[@darrynwalker268]

@@mediapc4747 would be willing to have a chat, I have been trading a while now without much success.

[@betangeltv]

Some knowledge is useful, but too much can force opinion. I do my best not to trade my own team or country so I can separate a trading decision from what I would like to happen. But if you look at horse racing. I knew nothing when I first started, but learning about the sport has helped me define new strategies.

[@MikeLee-27]

Basically micro trading?

[@betangeltv]

More or less

[@NickPeters-zc2ms]

As you say, ignoring the P&L during trading is a simple but effective way to approach the daily grind. Plenty of time to review and the end of the day. The times of the year for football and horse racing combine well for all year round sports, add in the Wimbledon tennis competition, cricket world cup, football world cup..plenty to get to stuck in to.

[@betangeltv]

Euro 2020 next year should provide additional opportunities!

[@mhepepe3349]

@@betangeltv I think we should add a few months more to that now unfortunate times these are.stay safe

[@UnitedPacci]

Yeah but the premium charges are really messed up. I'd rather make over 100k with stocks or foreign exchange.

[@betangeltv]

Easiers on sports thought and most people do not pay the premium charge as it's function of strike rate.

[@UnitedPacci]

@@betangeltv I think we agree to disagree. Eventually being profitable is being a longterm on either, but I think with trading stock or forex you can create greater edges for yourself. And the volumes/markets are much bigger. It didn't took me look to hit 100k using CFD's (most people lose huge because they don't understand it). I have a close friend who had to pay 60% PC for an amount of around 250k. That's theft to me. You only have 1 legit option which is Betfair with the best liquidity.

[@PedjazzQuartet]

Can You make a video on betangel dealing with automation options ?

[@betangeltv]

There are quite a lot on the channel - But here is an introduction: - kzbin.info/www/bejne/jqCyoGyvg9akfsU

[@PedjazzQuartet]

@@betangeltv Awesome Peter. Watched the whole video and it's pushing me to start using Bet Angel. Questions: 1) Do You have videos on football automation trading in Bet Angel? 2) How do I get access to those files to load into automation, is there a fee involved? 3) Can Bet Angel automate football trading on bookies not just betfair? Or is it capable of trading other exchanges? Appreciate it a lot Peter. I trade profitably football matches using local bookie(since betfair is not allowed in my country). I have been looking for automation software and tools to multiply my profit and create passive income. I hope You and Bet Angel can get me there.

[@grahambeyer6254]

If you profit £0.79 on average over 41,000 ish markets that's only £32,390. The chart shows over £60k profit. I'm guessing it's over 4-5 years based on 10,000 horse racing markets per year. Is this just horse racing?

[@betangeltv]

You are forgetting strike rate.

[@grahambeyer6254]

Do you include scratch trades as winning trades?

[@grahambeyer6254]

Around 60% strike rate?

[@JJ-um5lk]

When and how does the premium charge affect this type of strategy when going for small profits over many markets?

[@tiestosoul]

@Graham This doesn't have to be horse racing markets, there are a lot of greyhound markets every day. The figures are for an average profit or loss, we dont have data to show scratch trades and we dont even know if there were any. The graph looks like the strike rate is higher than 60% and the math would prove that too. @JJ Premium charge is calculated per accounts lifetime summary (number of markets, P/L, commision) not by the type of trading you do. You can find out how it's calculated on Betfair.

[@georgebuller1914]

9-42: Basically, this is where I've been going wrong for a few years (I'm a slow learner/don't give up easily!) Rather than accept making £1-00. 50,000 times, I want to make £10.00. 5,000 times (had a couple of beers, so not sure if the maths is correct! LOL) I think the biggest problem with beginner traders, is that we don't have the TIME to put into the business. We have a 'real' job and fit trading into the 'off' time we can spare. Thus, the returns seem puny...

[@MrDanallman]

As a beginner you can set yourself a target of winning 1% of your bank each day.

[@georgebuller1914]

@@MrDanallman I find 5% to be more than realistic, BUT, I cannot break the habit of going in play/trading in-play 'outsider' lays!!! :-( Basically, 'cos I'm an impatient, greedy b*stard! ;-)

[@CrazyLarry23]

Could you make 100k a year?....Yes Will you make 100k a year?....No

[@24sumo]

Not with that attitude you won’t.

[@CrazyLarry23]

@@24sumo That's true. However trading is one of those things that requires far, far more than just dedication and positivity. You definitely need to have a certain skillset to be a crusher.

[@joelratemo1752]

@@CrazyLarry23 You need prayers as well. Lol

[@betangeltv]

I never thought I would still be doing this in year 20, so it just shows you what is possible.

[@georgebuller1914]

12-20: THAT is the crux of the matter...

[@JayJay-tm9gx]

Haven’t watched one of your vids for ages, you’re grey bro 😂 I attended one of your courses in Hook 3 or 4 years ago, the trading journey has been harder than I thought, but I’m reading books, practicing and most importantly learning from my mistakes, hope to get to another course in 2020, take care peter !!

[@betangeltv]

Thanks for checking in. Maybe I should start dying my hair? Then again....

[@futnostalgia]

V insightful

[@betangeltv]

Thanks for your feedback.

[@MARKETMAN6789]

There's not a single winner at the gamblers anonymous meetings that I attend . Every single person at these meetings is a loser Does anyone know if there's gamblers anonymous meetings where I can listen to winners . I've been to hundreds of meetings up and down the country and the stories are depressing .If you know of any gamblers anonymous meetings where winners go .I would like to go they might cheer me up. I've asked everyone and No one knows of a single meeting where winners go .If you are a winner maybe you could start a gamblers anonymous group meeting for winners

[@betangeltv]

Ultimately it's really unlikely to meet one there really isn't it? A lot of losses in betting are psychological, so I think unless people get to the root of that desire to be right it's hard to accept losses.

[@MARKETMAN6789]

@@betangeltv I Can accept and do acept losses and I'm the problem .I'm not a bad loser I will leave you alone now,and thank you for not being nasty .please don't reply .

[@elmshouse8566]

@@MARKETMAN6789 you are confusing gambling with trading. The two are very different.

[@gingerbreadninja6645]

£100,000 per year?, I doubt it......

[@stmh9660]

Well, it's perfectly doable if you have enough bank and if you are able to place big stakes and having a really big success rate. You don't need to have these kind of objectives (they may even be dangerous), simply trade and flow with it, having earning objectives isn't really helpful, completely the opposite

[@UnitedPacci]

@@stmh9660 Be prepared to have an enormous tax by betfair. If you make over 150k they'll charge you up to 60%.

[@Lifelongloser]

I actually make more than £100,000 a year from gambling. But I’m no happier than I would be if I was making 30,000 a year.🐦

[@betangeltv]

Money gives you choices, but doesn't necessarily make you happy.

[@Lifelongloser]

Matthew Scott No, I don’t think I’d be very good on the exchanges because the psychology is different. I bet on long term markets with the bookies. In multiples! And if there’s any bookies reading this don’t worry because the ones I have left are very hard to beat because they don’t have the plethora of markets I require . That’s why you’re the last ones left.😕

[@Lifelongloser]

betangeltv Indeed. I could fly around the world tomorrow-er well not tomorrow because of you know what - but I’m inclined to lay on my sofa reading a book . And when I was poor that made me happy . But now I’m thinking why am I reading a book when I could fly round the world !? Whats wrong with you !? You’re wasting your life you fool ! But then I get to a good bit in the book 😕 Admittedly however it’s a nice sofa 🦦

[@lukesanthony]

im new here how can i make 100,000 fast

[@betangeltv]

Rob a bank? Though that's not recommended.

[@UnitedPacci]

@@betangeltv 😂