Better Hardware Does NOT Mean Better Console

[@mitchellazevedo6637]

The global picture of the Master System is totally different. The Sega Master System was more popular than the NES in Europe and the Brazilian market is a thing of it's own and is still very active. The active shudder 3-D is what sold me in it's day and it still wows me today. But of course there's Rad Racer on the NES.....

[@ostiariusalpha]

If you look at the numbers, the NES came pretty close to catching up with the Master System in many European countries after a slow start. It wasn't crushed out of the Western and Northern European markets by Sega the way the SMS was pushed aside in North America. And Nintendo also had Kirby, I would have killed for the SMS to have a game of that caliber.

[@williamoverton7775]

this is correct furthermore one of the release titles on genesis was the power adapter for master system games.

[@vebxenon]

100% right. And most of the catalogue was released here in Europe only.

[@Liam3072]

Yup, I feel this episode is a little too US-centric.

[@schar1024]

The Video is absolutely right. Nintendo basically sabotaged the market by these exclusive rights. I also think that companies would've loved to resell their games to the Master System if they could've. This would've boosted the sales for the console. As EU kid, i'm glad i had the Master System II, since it really had some great games for it. But sadly the list is shorter than the List of Great NES Games, due their sabotage.

[@craigbondtube]

I grew up in the UK and I always remember seeing the Mega drive/Genesis and Master system everywhere. I didn't know any kids with the NES, I knew a couple with the Snes, but mostly they had a Sega console.

[@iwanttocomplain]

That is also my experience. So I was surprised to find the figures for sales in the UK for the two consoles are almost identical. I don’t remember anyone ever even mentioning the NES. I sh*t you not. I did see one in a department store with Mario Bros but it was a very old game by then.. I thought I saw one through a window once. Or at least a paused game screen of just blue and a very simple top of a castle or something and then around a month later the same image was on the screen. Very strange. Some people had the SNES but it was uncool to announce publicly that you had one. Maybe that is brand loyalty. Maybe.

[@michaelcurtis8635]

It was rich kids. For some reason they were pricing the games at like £50 here. Not £50 in todays money, £50 in 1989 money. Whoever was doing the NES' local distribution in Europe was every bit as nuts as Tomko was doing Sega's in the US. Maybe more so. Didn't they also try to distribute the NES through Boots for some reason? It was all very weird. But, Mario 3 got the same McDonald's promotion it got in the US, we had the Mario Cartoons, and I vaguely remember seeing a bundle with Turtles being pushed hard in toyshops when that was at its peak around 1990. So I could see how there's be a window in 1990-1991 where it'd get a surge in sales from people who could afford it. And it's not like the MS had some crazy lead, Sega may have been 'winning' the console space but way more people were trying to load a taped copy of Karateka copied from a copy of a copy on their HiFi onto a second hand C64 with a dodgy tape deck that stank of cigarette smoke and wondering why it was crashing half way through loading.

[@iwanttocomplain]

@@michaelcurtis8635 I think in 1990 the NES was in about 6th place after ZX Spectrum, C64, CPC464, SMS, Atari ST and Amiga.

[@VOAN]

Y'all had a very beautiful Super NES console and y'all ignore it while we in NA had an ugly version but we still cherish it. If Nintendo knew now what they didn't know back then, then we would had gotten that version instead.

[@karlaboerger3619]

Where kids withvNES in UK where evil to you?

[@slow71971]

Don't forget sega moved their hardware between europe & brazil doing 17 mill,so technecally they did not fail.

[@LelandReview]

I like how in Brazil SEGA never stopped making consoles. They won the console war in that region by a mile.

[@slow71971]

They put up their sega wall dam.@@LelandReview

[@piratesephiroth]

@@LelandReview officially yes, because Nintendo didn't have any presence here until the 90s. There's no way the SMS sold better than all the unnoficial NES clones released in the late 80s combined.

[@dtester]

@@piratesephirothActually it might have.

[@sloppynyuszi]

@@LelandReviewto be honest Sega didn’t really make anything there. Tectoy licensed the console and that’s it. Sega just lets them run with it and takes in some royalties. It’s weird that in any nostalgia thing Sega is involved, their success in Brazil gets no mention.

[@kins749]

You can't blame the SMS for the Wonderboy music, that is 100% from the arcade

[@videogameobsession]

11:18 Sega didn't really abandon the Sega Master System in 1988. It was the year of the release of the Mega Drive in Japan, so their obvious focus was on that. They continued to support the SMS in the USA, and in fact, when the Sega Genesis was released in August 1989, we also saw them release a $35 Power Base Convertor add-on, to play SMS carts on the Genesis (which already contained the necessary Z-80 processor). We also saw some of the best SMS games release at this time, including the excellent Mickey Mouse and Sonic games.

[@pferreira1983]

This video is filled with mistakes like that.

[@dtester]

Yup, and the SMS2 was released after the Genesis in NA in 1990. It was intended to be the budget option for Sega in parallel with the Genesis and it got a LOT of Genesis game ports.

[@uhhh_adam]

Hilarious when youtubers do that lmao

[@pferreira1983]

@@uhhh_adam Not so hilarious when this ignorance is being peddled around KZbin to gamers wanting to learn accurate history.

[@georgezee5173]

The Sega Master System (II) was my first console and I can confirm they kept releasing new videogames as late as 1992. For instance, my parents bought me "Sonic The Hedgehog 2", which was released late 1992.

[@Oysterblade84]

The Master System did extremely well here in Australia. I got a Master System II in 1992 and the software was still selling quite well in game stores. Sega marketed the Master System over here as the cheaper alternative to the Mega Drive which was very expensive at the time and I think with a lot of parents this idea worked. The games were always packaged with a Sega catalogue flyer in them, one side was white with the Master System software and turning it over it was black displaying the Mega Drive software. The white Master System side always marketed the console as the cheaper affordable option. I remember the kid next door to me at the time wanted a SNES but his mum didn't know what that was and got him a Master system II console instead as it was cheaper. Although this example was in vein, it worked in Sega's favour lol.

[@douglasmurphy3266]

Master System was basically 1986 tech whereas the NES was 1983 tech. SMB1 was about as far as the hardware was meant to go. Memory mapper chips, larger ROM chips coming down in price, and genius programmers focusing efforts on the large installed base were what pushed NES games from 1988 and beyond to do things the console wasn't meant to do. The cartridges utilizing custom chips really came in clutch, and the SNES had this in mind from the get-go.

[@jsr734]

The Master System also uses Mapper chips but they called them "Paging Chips".

[@MattyIcecubes]

I was one if those lucky kids back in the 80's who had a friend with a Master System. I had an NES and we would trade sometimes. Master System had some great games, and the graphics were mindblowing for its time. But the NES was the better console because it had more games and better games.

[@fnln3011]

I like the jank 8bit sonic games that master system/game gear had

[@solamon77]

Yeah, it did! I was a HUGE fan of Phantasy Star 1 and Spellcaster personally. I remember those 3d dungeons in Phantasy Star 1 blew me away. I had no idea how they were able to do something so advanced. It's like Pojr said, makes you wonder what the SMS was really capable of if they had developers really trying to push the consoles limits.

[@visitperaiagreece]

I had the SMS back during the old days. It was awesome. The 3D glasses my friend had for his SMS were so cool it is hard to describe. They were very impressive and made the Nintendo 3D games look like something form 100 years prior. The SMS was so underrated.

[@VOAN]

The Nintendo 3D games looking like that from 100 years prior (meaning the first of its kind) then it is an excellent achievement, if it was looking like that from 100 years later (meaning the last of its kind) then it would be a disappointment.

[@michaelromeo9567]

@@VOAN The hardware , more colors onthe Master System. It's not just the 3D glasses etc..

[@videogameobsession]

Not to be a stickler for details, but (4:22) most people in the USA didn't have a way to play the SMS' RGB output. This was more for JPN / EUR, with their SCART/RGB standard. We got svideo, and later on, component (YPbPr), which is nearly identical to RGB, later, with the PS2, Xbox, and GC (where the cable did the digital conversion). Also, the cables at 4:29 are not NES cables. (The NES didn't have a Nintendo Muti-out A/V, or stereo music, for that matter. It did some with a set of standard RCA style composite cables in all of the major USA boxed system sets (Deluxe, Action, Sports, and so on). The SMS only included the RF adapter, and many users just stuck with that. -MattH

[@myflyisopen.8732]

I'm a Yankee and this is my favorite console. I wanted this in 86 and it was a spectacular Xmas when I did get it. I went from a C64 to this. All my friends had the Nintendo. The colors, speed, and abilities this has over the NES was not my only reason to get it. It was because I wanted Space Harrier. It did not disappoint. Years later I felt under represented as a gamer because this became an obscure system. Not many people I met in the gaming world in the 90's knew of it. I am glad and fortunate to have experience it! Long live the Sega Master System!

[@joveaaron-real]

Came so quick KZbin still doesn't have the HD version lol

[@Larry]

You could compare Psycho Fox on the SMS to Kid Kool on the NES, as they're very similar games from the same developer.

[@blackmesacake5361]

Hello you!!!!

[@GlensRetroShow]

Right on!

[@pferreira1983]

SMS games always came across better regardless of the popularity.

[@rayner864]

Cool to note that a lot of SG1000 games can actually be played on master system via something like a flash cart. But yea, I've personally always preferred the master system to NES, just because I prefer consoles with smaller, more concise libraries.

[@Diggy22]

I remember seeing the Sega Master System in Toys R Us circulars all the time. Never knew anyone who owned it, as everyone I knew had the NES. Funny enough, I saw an unopened Sega Master System at a video game store almost a decade ago. I noticed on the box the Tomy logo, and my jaw dropped. It was that moment that I realized that the Sega Master System was distributed by Tomy in the States. Almost felt as if I was looking in those Toys R Us circulars again.

[@SylveonTrapito]

I could only use a Mater System once with a friend and it felt so futuristic with the 3D glasses and super cool design. I rememeber seeing the dog from shadow dancer barking at the intro and it was so amazing!

[@mresturk9336]

Also of note the Master System used 3-bit color for its art tiles as opposed to the NES which used 2-bit. That means the sprite/background tiles of the Master System could use up to 8 colors, while the NES art assets were limited to 4 colors each. Hence why the Master System sprites seemed so much more detailed in spite of its palette having less than ten more colors than the NES.

[@Nikku4211]

Actually, Master System tiles could use up to 16 colours and sprites up to 15.

[@todesziege]

Like above said, it's 4-bit (16 colors, -1 for transparency). This is indeed the big difference between NES and SMS graphics, much more important than a few more colors in the master palette or just "on screen". Although the NES "colors on screen" number is generally even lower in practice, because with just 3 colors (the NES also loses one color for transparency) per palette you're going to end up with a lot of repeated colors (such as having black in most sprite palettes).

[@TransCanadaPhil]

Little bit of context. Nobody in North America owned a TV with RGB or Component input in the 80s. Almost everybody was still using the RF coax input. If your TV was a little newer and fancier you might have had a composite input at best but only if your TV was made in 1987 or newer, that’s about it. You might have had an S-Video connector at the very end of the 80s but only on the highest end sets after around 1989 or so but barely anyone owned those. The reality is though that almost everybody still connected consoles to TVs in North America using the RF switchbox until around 1993/94. It was only then that a majority of people even had anything better than RF (composite) inputs on their TVs.

[@VOAN]

RGB in general was mostly used in PAL regions via SCART so it really doesn't matter. NA was in a poor recession in the 80s so coaxial was supported longer.

[@TransCanadaPhil]

@@VOAN also I think for a lot of people that didn’t live in that era many don’t realize that the nature of consumer electronics was quite different before the internet. Products took a long time to gain mainstream acceptance and as a result companies supported them and tried to develop the market over a much longer period of time. No company today for instance would have had the patience to keep pushing CD until it finally caught mainstream acceptance in the early 90s (10 years after being introduced). Sure CDs were technically around in 1982 but no one owned them until 1989-1990. I find this is so hard to explain to the iPhone generation where if a product doesn’t succeed within a few months it’s now considered a failure and taken off the marketplace. The market was very different in that respect back then.

[@RetroTuna]

The master system was huge in the U.K. the nes was just something I played on demo units in some shops, I got a lot of love for the master system but on reflection the nes had loads more games Both great 8 bit consoles.

[@HE360]

The reason that I didn't get a Sega Master system is because I didn't know about it.

[@JustMe99999]

I had both systems as a kid. If you look at games that appeared on both systems, the SMS versions are usually significantly better than the NES counterparts (Double Dragon, Rampage, Paperboy and more). There were actually a lot of games released for the SMS, but they were just hard to find in the US. I think the system did better in Europe and Brazil.

[@davidpellman8157]

The SMS is one of my all time favorite systems. I actually had one when they were relevent. Sega themselves saw companies like Capcom, Konami, and Hudson as competition in the arcades and would not allow them to bring games to the SMS. What they failed to realize was that having Konami bringing an arcade perfect Contra to SMS would have probably helped them sell a few more systems. There is a story floating around that the creator of Final Fantasy wanted to bring it to SMS. He liked the superior hardware. Since Sega was working on Phantasy Star they would not allow it. Now in America it is a different story. Nintendo of America had clauses in the 3rd party contracts that if a game was brought out on NES it could not be ported any where else. This policy also hurt Atari as well. The decision to buy a system is always determined by the 1st party software. Nintendo had SMB, Zelda and Metroid. While Sega had Shinobi, Alex Kid, and Fantasy Zone (All wonderful games by the way). Shinobi and Fantasy Zone both actually appeared on the NES with Sega's blessing. Remember this is pre-Sonic Sega. This is the reason that Double Dragon and the few 3rd party titles that appeared on both systems had different features. In Europe and Brazil the SMS kicked the crud out of the NES. In Brazil Sega smartly allowed Tech Toy to have the distrubtion rights and it is still selling in mini form and getting new games in that region to this day, amazing I know. All I know is that I want an SMS Mini with all those cool European releases that we never got here. Long live the SMS, baby!!!!!!!!

[@VOAN]

Sega didn't see them as competition, they see Sega as competition. Sega didn't fix this issue until the Sega Genesis/Mega Drive arrival.

[@VOAN]

You forgot to mention that even though the Sega Master System flopped in North America, in Brazil the console was massively popular and had way more games than in the NA and even Japanese market. Most of the SMS games in the Brazilian market were just 50hz SMS ports of Game Gear titles such as Streets of Rage 1 & 2, Sonic Chaos, Sonic Blast, Mortal Kombat 3, and Sonic the Hedgehog 2 but there were a few exclusive one too such as Street Fighter II', a broken but impressive looking version of SFII for SMS.

[@serqetry]

I think a large part of the Master System's failure was actually the packaging and the look of the console itself. I loved the way it looked, but to be honest the first time I saw it I wasn't even sure it was a game console. it looks crazy and has a weird schematic diagram on the front. if it confused a video game fanatic like me, I know a lot of people didn't buy it because they couldn't tell what it was. The other problem is their cartridge boxes looked terrible. They all looked the same, just a white grid and the game name, and some weak looking art. There was no excitement or creativity in their packaging. it really hurt them, as most NES cartridge boxes looked super exciting by comparison. Sega realized their mistake and totally fixed all those problems when they made the Genesis. Everything about the Genesis/Megadrive was attention grabbing and exciting looking.

[@narayanbandodker5482]

Native FM expansion would have been a good idea for it instead of being an optional expansion, then audio would have been exponentially better than the NES for sure

[@thetechn1que518]

FM is great for music but not so much for sound effects. I still feel that multi-channel PCM on the NES and PC Engine is a lot more capable than the SMS even with FM sound. Maybe if it could use the PSG and FM simultaneously it would surpass the NES.

[@narayanbandodker5482]

@@thetechn1que518PCM audio is fine, even if it is wavetable synth like PC engine. But idk i think if Master System kept the SN76489 but just included the expansion FM of YM2413 (like how genesis kept the psg but added ym2612) it would have worked out better

[@thetechn1que518]

I saw another comment on here that said a fan hack of Sonic uses FM music with PSG sounds so I guess it is possible? I’ve never tried that rom. I don’t think any of the licensed games support this but it’s cool if that can be done.

[@narayanbandodker5482]

@@thetechn1que518 I think I've seen that game played by @redhotsonic on real hardware, titled "Sonic 1 FM"

[@MurasakiBunny]

Completely missed the fact that the SMS cartridges also came in 128, 256, and 512 kb sizes as well from their own mappers.

[@michaeljordan6008]

Make your own video, dork.

[@jsr734]

"PAGING CHIPS", please, "Mapper" sounds too much Nintendy. 😆

[@erockbrox8484]

At 4:29 in the video, that is an SNES composite cable. The NES only had 1 cord for video and 1 cord for sounds.

[@piratesephiroth]

I think you could have compared SMS Outrun to NES Rad Racer, which was sort of an Outrun derivative and both were released basically at the same time.

[@VOAN]

I believe Squaresoft at the time didn't know what sells so they just make any game in any genre and hope one clicks. They made Rad Racer not knowing it was an almost direct clone of OutRun. This didn't anger Sega but it does give Sega an urge to answer back with a game of their own. When Final Fantasy became popular, Sega released Phantasy Star as a direct clone to compete against it.

[@rickprime83]

The Master System was my first ever console, loved it so much. My dad got me the Rocky game and played the hell out of it for months. That's what made my 87' worth while.

[@trmblingblustar]

One thing about the Master System that is interesting is that it was legendary for those of us who grew up with the Genesis. Playing games like Phantasy Star 2 and Revenge of Shinobi, we would read in magazines that the original titles came out on the SMS, but since the console was dead and the games not in stores at that point, most of us only had screen shots and it would be years before we could experience these games for ourselves. I remember craving a SMS converter for my Genesis along with the original Phatasy Star, but this was not to be.

[@adamokon358]

I´ve also heard that the Master System was a flop in the US. But it was But it was more successful in Europe and Australia than the NES. Also til today the Master System is the king in Brazil and I believe it´s still produced there. So this would make it the world's longest-lived console.

[@Montegasppa]

In Brazil, Sega MasterSystem was a huge success, beating Nintendo by far. At that time, nobody knew about NES, but everyone - even who had never played a video game - knew the MasterSystem.

[@VOAN]

Kinda sad too when they only know Master System, it's like living in the Galápagos Islands not knowing there's North and South America between them, missing out on classics they never had a chance to play such as F-Zero GX.

[@Montegasppa]

@VOAN Kinda that indeed. Please don’t forget Central America tho. 😁

[@JeremyLeePotocki]

The Tonka bit was due to major retailers were still skittish over the great crash even in 86 without Tonka being one of the largest toy makers backing Sega stores like Walmart (and other department stores) would not have gave Sega the time of day. In fact when Sega ditched Tonka a lot of the major retailers that were not specialty Toy & Video Game stores instantly put all Sega Master System products into clearance at absolute rock bottom prices. I had a SMS as well as a NES when they went into clearance mode I built up my game library quite a bit in fact my Walmart that was nearby had their games from five dollars to as low as one dollar. I went from having 3 games to over 40. Anyway when they released the Master System 2 it was only release to specialty stores like Toys R Us, Babbage's, etc. In fact I tried to get Golden Axe Warrior & Ghouls & Ghost from Sear via catalog, but they already stopped selling SMS stuff during their release.

[@nightbirdds]

Such a missed opportunity on the Master System. But, Sega of America was kind of in a bad state back then, so it probably shouldn't be a big surprise. I remember having a lot of fun with After Burner, Space Harrier, Hang-On, Phantasy Star, Fantasy Zone, Miracle Warriors, and a few others. It certainly had good games, just not enough of them. That 3D setup it had was pretty sweet, though.

[@kekeke8988]

Well, tbh, the master system lived on even in the US, since the Game Gear is basically the same thing with almost entirely the same games.

[@VOAN]

@@kekeke8988 Not only that most Game Gear games also got port to Sega Master System in other regions too. This include the Mortal Kombat games, Street of Rage games, and a few of the later Sonic games.

[@MrShuaTV]

It was the exact same way over at Atari with the Atari 7800. It could handle about 100 on screen sprites without flicker.

[@LeftEarth2]

As a kid I had Atari, Genesis, Turbografx 16, NES,and SNES. I thought we were poor cause we didn't have a Neo Geo AVS, or Phillips CDI. _When I went to my poor friend's house all he had was a Master System and Alex Kidd._ 😂

[@gamusinoyo2]

This video assumes that the audience is from NA. I'm from EU and 1. Genesis here was named Megadrive (by the way, the original name) and 2: master system was not an obscure system, maybe not the most popular one, but fairly known.

[@marblemunkey]

My next door neighbor had an SMS in 1990 when I had a NES. Ys made a big impression on me. We skipped over the 16-bit consoles (I had become a PC gamer), but picked up the N64.

[@LelandReview]

In Canadians schools growing up it was always neck and neck battle between NES and Master System fans. I was on team NES but I secretly loved the Master System more. Especially when it came to light gun games. Duck Hunt on NES was good. But Safari Hunt on Master System was 10x better.

[@lazarushernandez5827]

Do not forget that Wonder Boy was ported first on a Sega console (SG-1000). The Master System version essentially came closer to the original arcade version. Adventure Island had the benefit of looking at this game and was able to rethink and improve certain aspects. You'll see this a lot with different games on various consoles. For example Double Dragon on the NES lacked 2 player co op. The Master System version which was released after, kept the 2 player co op. Battletoads on the Genesis is basically an upgraded version of the NES original, on the SNES Battletoads they rethought a lot of the game. While Nintendo did rope in the 3rd parties, Sega still managed to provided a similar experience to a lot of those games on the Master System.

[@SprocketWalker]

It's always a great day when there's a new POJR video to watch. Thank you for uploading today! 😄

[@hughmongus6191]

You should have showcased "Phantasy Star." It was a JRPG that pushed limits of the Mark III/Master System.

[@marty5300]

one thing that is always omitted when talking about the SMS was that horrid control pad.. It was impossible to walk in a straight line for any amount of distance with that damn thing. That was my biggest problem with it. Some of the games were really good.

[@waynetemplar2183]

Agreed. And for this reason I used a 3rd party Megadrive controller on my SMS which had a NES style D-pad

[@forcaportugal2012]

I don't remember that, but excepting for the original which came with the console, the other controllers I had were Mega Drive's which were compatible and cooler.

[@reddevil630]

As a 9 year boy ,I bought my sega with my own money that work for in December of 1985 . I Just got it because the nes was sold out at the keybe toy store, as a kid I just couldn't wait for restock. Now my 8 year son plays with my master system in the living room and its near mint condition.

[@anthonyslaughter1728]

I got my Sega Master System Christmas 1988. My sister got a NES. At the time I was a Shinobi fan and could almost beat the entire game with 1 quarter. It was a different game on the SMS but it was still a great game and system. Games like Phatasy Star, Zillion, Rastan, R-Type, and Space Harrier allowed you to play for days. My personal favorites were the games Spellcaster and Kenseiden. No on at all talks about these games and that is a shame because sequals to them would be pretty popular today I think. The only negative I ever had about the SMS was the sound. The music on the NES outclassed the SMS in every way. BlasterMaster, Ninja the Gaiden, and Castlevania played unbelievable music tracks at that time. Thanks for the look back on what really changed Sega up and brought about the true Genesis of gaming at home.

[@erockbrox8484]

What you do as a company is create your own development studios so that you have great games coming out for the system. If there are no 3 parties then you have to create your own division within the company which would act like a 3rd party developer. You have to have the games, the hardware is not enough. You have to have the killer apps that sell the console. Usually you have a few games that are so good and compelling that people have to play them and thus have to by the system.

[@davidaitken8503]

Sega was probably pushing the limits of the SMS hardware. Unfortunately, without upgrading the technology through more advanced mappers on the cartridges like on the NES their superior hardware was effectively made inferior. No SMS game could ever compete on a technical level with NES games using some of the more advanced memory mappers. The one used in Batman: Return of the Joker by Sunsoft was absolutely incredible.

[@jeremyandrews3292]

I don't know if this is the best example of the principle that better hardware doesn't make a better console, because the SMS was a pretty good console... it just didn't sell well in North America. It did pretty well in Europe and South America, I believe.

[@Domarius64]

Here in Australia, we had a lot of Sega Master System - I have so much nostalgia for its games, and its particular style of graphics and sound. And yet, I can attest to being jealous of the technically older NES having the "cool" games and the general street cred. In fact, this phenomena had so much effect that we never really saw the full potential of the SMS hardware - SMS games tended to have cheap budgets because of the small audience. So they never made full use of the hardware capabilities. Looking at Aladdin on the SMS you can get a taste of what could've been possible.

[@adayinforever]

When you count all the games that were released in other regions, the SMS compared favorably to the NES in retrospect in terms of software. The SMS actually got games later than the NES in some regions. All the way to 1996. Unfortunately those late games were only available to most of us in retrospect, in the form of emulation. Compare Gunstar Heroes on the Master System to Contra, I would say it's equal if not better. Or what about Sonic 2 to Super Mario Bros 2? I believe there were more Sonic games on the SMS than there were Mario games on the NES. Also I didn't even see a Master System until 1996 when I saw it at my uncles house. I had no idea what it was, I had a SNES at home, and I had played a NES and Genesis, but the SMS was foreign to me.

[@RetroGamesBoy78]

Unfortunately POJR didn't dive quite deep enough here because i think we did find out what the Master System was truly capable of, but those games didn't reach American shores, in Europe the games kept coming up until 1996, and the game that always springs immediately to mind is Robocop VS Terminator, which could almost be mistaken for an early Mega Drive title, plenty of other titles too.

[@fazares]

Cool video as usual...u only forgot about the pal and brazilian markets where the SMS was a success and outsold the NES by a quite wide margin eheh

[@maroon9273]

Pal region kept the system alive and market it better than na and jp

[@iwanttocomplain]

@@maroon9273 Mastertronic was the UK company responsible for the sms. Then Virgin bought them soon after.

[@vebxenon]

And most of the catalogue was released in Europe only.

[@pjdolont9012]

growing up in the states during the mid 80s I knew one kid with a master system, his father was an early adopter of all things tech. I remember banks of betamax machines dubbing in the front room of his house and even being introduced to laserdisc and the different micro-computers. We never looked at the master system as an inferior product.

[@jfizzle525]

Great video brother man. You always brighten my day. I'm already looking forward to the next one. Thanks POJR!

[@HeyItIsMichal]

Mommy said it's my turn to get pinned on the comment section.

[@alexsweeney2443]

Well that worked.

[@afriend9428]

*OUCH!*

[@DanielMonteiroNit]

No need for what-ifs: someone is porting freaking Wolfenstein 3D to the Master System!

[@VOAN]

That game is everywhere now, yes it's nice it's coming to an ancient system but this is 2023, modern tech for games on old hardware is nothing new anymore.

[@TakeNoteOfThat]

My parents took my sister and I to Best Buy one day in 87. We could pick the NES or SMS, plus one game each. We went NES, thankfully.

[@DannyP-dm1pw]

Crazy I had no idea Best Buy existed in the 80's until recently. The first one I remember built in NYC was in 2000 and I remember it had tons of CD aisles, and PS2 midnight launch. Just a different time. NYC also blocked a lot of big stores and still does which is why no Walmart exist

[@FeralInferno]

Better hardware in some respects, sure. But I never liked the Master System sound chip and the framerate felt like it chugged along compared to the NES.

[@bugashi]

Actually, there were a number of other third parties developing and releasing games for the Master System, though it required some navigation through various legal terms within the exclusivity contracts. By licensing to other companies and labels, developers and publishers could not only release their games on the NES, but on other platforms as well. While this practice did pick up on the Genesis through the use of various shell companies, developers such as Capcom, Taito, Epyx, Atari and Irem would license their games to either Sega, or others such as U.S. Gold, for release on the Master System in the North American region. While this allowed the console to have third-party games, Nintendo's relationship with various retailers would be a bigger hurdle. As the company grew bigger, their practices were emboldened as threats of blacklisting and cutting off supply kept many from carrying anything that wasn't licensed by the Big N. While this was mostly due to unlicensed third-party titles, many retailers didn't want to run the risk, which often left the consoles only being carried by specialty stores, to mail-in catalogs. While various anti-trust lawsuits and more powerful hardware like the Genesis/Mega Drive and the PC Engine/TurboGrafx-16 would begin to weaken Nintendo's grip on the market, they effectively ruled the North American region during the 8-bit days. ... unless you lived in Brazil, SEGA and Tec Toy had that on lockdown well into the '90s. Did you know that they actually had both Street Fighter II' and the Mortal Kombat trilogy on the Master System?

[@SuperIcarusman]

I think the biggest struggle for Sega at the time with the SMS versus the NES, was the game Library.

[@boriscat1999]

my friend had a master system. I really liked the games for it, but he desperately wanted to play Zelda on NES. Grass is always greener on the other side.

[@soramirez5473]

i liked both Golvelius AND Golden Axe warrior over the NES version of Zelda. but thats me.

[@SweetStevieAaron]

This thing did really well in the U.K. They had software developer Mastertronic distributing it after the failed NES launch. Computers were destroying consoles over here before this.

[@wongyc5585]

The Master system is also hard to develop for. The sprites cannot flip,character facing left and right need more spaces on the ROM. Also the Master System have more choppy scrolling.

[@lean.drocalil]

As a programmer, I think the Master System is a breeze to program for. It's way easier than the NES and more straightforward in almost every way. It's true that you can't flip sprites, but you can flip background tiles (the NES can't). Scrolling is basically the same across systems, the SMS being actually even slightly superior at that, since you can freely read how far down the screen is being drawn scanline wise natively, whilst the NES will require you get a mapper chip for that. I say it's easier because the PPU on the NES has bugs and quirks you need to account for, also it's a lot more sensitive to timing. The SMS' VDP works as a charm. I'm a big fan of both and regularly write code for both ✌🏻

[@nickolasgaspar9660]

Nintendo reminds me of Apple. Both companies are good in convincing people to spend more on inferior products.

[@pojr]

Yeah I always thought Nintendo and apple were very comparable. If Apple were a video game company, I would imagine it a lot like Nintendo.

[@BLASTIC0]

from what I understand, SEGA didnt really want 3rd party developers... they wanted to sell their own arcade ports and saw them as competition. I have no source, it was in a video I watched not too long ago about the Master System/SG1000

[@VOAN]

Yeap also the reason why not many third party companies are jumping on Sega's bandwagon was cause those were also Sega's arcade competitors. Capcom, Konami, Namco, Sunsoft, Tecmo, Taito, SNK, etc., they were also competing against Sega in the arcade space so they had no reason to support their competitor in the home console space. It wasn't until the Genesis that Sega finally manage to convince them otherwise.

[@JaxCoolKartunes]

Ahoy mate! The master system was popular in europe and outsold the nes there and stay alived for a few years after its discontinuation in north amercia and the console also with the sega genesis still stays in brazil.

[@fazares]

Where it outsold the nes by a huge margin as well

[@DenisExgardian]

Until today, Master system stills very popular in few countries. In Brazil, Tectoy and Sega have the longest partnership ever! Also in Brazil, we own the most expensive and rare Master System games, like Street Fighter II, approved by Capcom itself.

[@djredshow]

I've found some of those roms and they are pretty cool.

[@VOAN]

Brazil never did left the 90s. In my home country, a lot of my folks still playing the Famicom despite we had Switch and PS5 at our side of the ocean.

[@djredshow]

@VOAN I'm in the us and I still play the old games more than the new ones.

[@KazamaFury]

Fleets not forget Nintendo strong armed retailers to not sell SMS or else they’d pull support from their stores

[@3DJapan]

I think I may still have my Master System laying around gathering dust.

[@SoushinSen]

11:02 Woah, I didn't know the existence of of the Master System II!!

[@JeffIrok]

The Master System is still being made in Brazil...

[@federicocatelli8785]

Master System had overall better specs but you could add dedicated enhancement chips and memory mappers on cartridge

[@donaldsmith5667]

I love SMS but it just can’t touch the NES imo. Great video!

[@lmcgregoruk]

Sega were still publishing games for the Master System in PAL regions up to 1995, last PAL region game released was The Smurfs 2 in 1996.

[@wertyxq3468]

Well, if someone wanted to watch an incomplete video of the master system in 2023, there you have it. This video omitted a lot of key information of the console, and how it actually thrived in europe and brazil.

[@jiminboo]

Another great video by pojr 😁 *does not apply in Brazil 😅

[@AndrewHelgeCox]

04:50 256*192 gives square pixela at a 4:3 aspect ratio, so is a better resolution than the Famicom's 256*240 with its squashed rectangular pixels.

[@MCastleberry1980]

The SMS was pretty cool but had an uphill battle against Nintendo in the states and Japan with their stranglehold on 3rd party support. Unless you live in Brazil lol

[@fazares]

and europe

[@jsr734]

No, 3rd partys were free to release games on other computers/consoles, Square actually released Final Fantasy on the MSX Computers as also did Konami with Castlevania, and Gradius and some other games so all this exclusivity thing seems to be a myth, been perpetuated by some angry fanboys.

[@Assimandeli]

@@fazares I always hear this Europe thing. However, in the northern Europe pretty much nobody owned a Sega console. It was more than 90% nintendos and then playstations later on.

[@pbcruz]

USA: "Oh, SMS didn't exist and the only computer available in the 80's was the C64..."

[@jufialio6287]

I'm brazilian, and Master System was massive, a lot more than NES here, and include, made success after it's generation with a lot "impossibles" ports like Street of Rage, etc.. just when Super Nintendo arrives, the things became better to Nintendo with agressive marketing and the classic Sonic vs Mario happened. Before this, we had pirate NES consoles, we had 2 options, a pirate NES, more cheap or the official Master System, and even with the pirates, Master System was accepted and become more popular for some time.

[@chrislaustin]

Growing up in the 70's & 80's, the Colecovision was my first dedicated console, and I had the 2600 module for it, as I was always about the games. So once I got my NES which I loved, I still got a SMS, as it had games I couldn't get on the NES. Sadly, it was at the wrong place at the wrong time(at least in the NA), as you can see that in how well it did in other regions. I don't think they could have done anything to change the US outcome, as the NES got to strong for SEGA to overcome. And yeah, that Tonka decision was a real head scratcher, but to this day, SEGA still does dumb shit like that, just look at spending 700+ million to buy Rovio. WTF!? The games the SMS did well, still hold up to this day in quality, titles like R-Type, Rampage, Choplifter and Paperboy are all amazing arcade ports. Phantasy Star was the first game I ever played that I thought buying a system for one game was worth it, as it was that amazing at the time.

[@PlasticCogLiquid]

The SMS's major flaw was usually the software, the programming was almost always bad. Hit detection was shit, and they always had the buttons reversed from what they should be. Lot's of n00b mistakes. Compare the feel of Double Dragon vs. the NES. The NES version has a good feel to the combat, weight to the kicks and punches. The SMS feels like there's not really any collision occuring when you're beating the shit out of enemies. You're just draining an invisible variable until it's falldown time. Most of the games were like this. Smash TV was a joke on the SMS

[@Sierra_Vice]

Hey, few pointers: First, on 4:52, a bit confused about the resolution info (you said the SMS has 256 x 192 while on screen it says 190). And second, on 7:49, did you forgot to mute the stock footage at the background? 😅 Nonetheless, I binge-watched your recent content and I do hope you get 10.000 subscribers this year. Best of luck to you.

[@jakek5417]

No mention of the sound chips? Maybe I missed it.

[@pojr]

Looking back, I wish I talked more about this, especially the FM audio.

[@wannabkain4400]

I grew up with the master system 2, in Europe the master system was so big we got exclusive games like ninja gaiden, I was blew away with a game having “cutscenes”

[@horrorshow1980]

Hey Pojr, I just wanted to say that I really like your videos! You are doing a great job. Keep it up.

[@OrionsAngel]

You make it seem like the SG-1000 was what became the Sega Master System. The SMS is the Mark III with the SG-1000 with a new body. The cart games on SMS were the Mark III games and the card games on SMS were SG-1000 games. You basically got two consoles in one.

[@TechWizMaster]

My dad choosed the Master System over the nes for me...i was 6 y/o...it came with a couple games built in and we played alex kid in miracle world, wonder boy, thunder blade and a lot more...was a blast i LOVED this console...which was replaced by the Super Nintendo later on.

[@Pulverrostmannen]

I am not surprised the SMS2 got a cold welcome because it only had the RF output and the video/sound quality compared to the NES composite outputs was absolute horrendous, also no pause button on the controller for playing games like Alex Kid that uses it, really short cables to the controller etc. Little did people know that these consoles still have the RGB and composite circuits built in and it was possible to rebuild the missing components to get it back which I did to my console. I first Had the NES and then my dad got a Mastersystem2, I was not happy with most music being simple together with the smaller picture height and the really bad RF picture. I always thought the Nintendo was better because the games were fun, the music good and decent picture for the time. But after I modified my Sega I actually got blown away by how good the picture and sound can actually be on these if you do it right. sure the height is still smaller and many games still klinky klonk music is bad. But I really enjoy the console now and the games that are good is actually surpassing the NES in many ways (when compared to original features of the consoles) The Mastersystem was sadly underrated because bad choices were made and the reputation was damaged before people could understand how capable it was before it was too late.

[@rodrigogirao8344]

The Dina console, aka Telegames Personal Arcade, can run ColecoVision and SG-1000 games. So, in a very roundabout way, the SG-1000 did reach America (but its games didn't).

[@mightygoodgaming2219]

I really enjoyed this video. I love learning all about older consoles especially ones that didn't sell very well.

[@yansproductions]

that's very good video. one thing i would add it's that the master system was WAY more popular outside of the US and Japan, with the console receiving new games as late 1997 in regions like europe and brasil, and also receiving game gear ports. as a brazilian, the master system was very big, and it kinda is the "brazilian NES" when we think about official 8 bit machines here in brazil, the master system is one of the firsts that comes to mind. also, because of the prolonged life in europe in brazil, there very good games that push the capabilities of the console that were only released in those regions.

[@iwanttocomplain]

Tectoy were the worst developers to ever exist.

[@yansproductions]

@@iwanttocomplain yes and no... they were the company that distributed the console in Brazil, they making games for the console was a bonus more or less. and hey, at least they did some quite awesome things, like bringing the Japan Exclusive Yu Yu Hakusho Game for mega drive to brazil translated to portuguese or translating some Master system and mega drive games, like Phantasy Star I for example. they aren't the worst.

[@iwanttocomplain]

@@yansproductions I know someone who really loves Duke Nukem 3D on SMD. Framerater I think is his channel.

[@iwanttocomplain]

@@yansproductions you’re Brazilian, right? Can you really still buy a Master System Tectoy clone with a bunch of built in games in a shop?

[@yansproductions]

@@iwanttocomplain Yes, but not as much on a physical store as before the pandemic, now most people buy it online. and yes, they still make them, and they aren't clones since they have the oficial licensing from SEGA.

[@nahumgardner]

Another good video. I love the master system, it's fate is so sad to me.

[@juststatedtheobvious9633]

Learn about how it dominated the UK before giving him any credit for this lazy effort.

[@offrails]

As with some other parts of the world, the Master System was quite popular down under (Australia and New Zealand) alongside the NES, and in my school playground, the Master System was seen as the "cooler" of the two systems

[@Domarius64]

In my Australian experience it varied. Certainly the SMS games looked and sounded better, and I remember many excited conversations about its games. But I did experience jealously of the NES and its games, they were the ones that were on TV and in the media, they had the recognisable characters. It was just so cool, it had the recognition. In fact I remember one school yard discussion with a group of us, mixed SMS and NES owners, conceding, NES was so much better experience overall (the main thrust being the great games) - BUT, boy they should really do something about those limited colours. (As if they could modify the system after release...)

[@angelriverasantana7755]

I know one thing about SMS Wonder Boy. It has a good few levels more than Adventure Island and the original arcade edition, plus it tweaks the arcade version and Adventure Island's biggest foible. The on-foot traction. It's way more lenient on SMS

[@angelriverasantana7755]

The greatest showing of limit pushing on SMS was Phantasy Star. Being under the hands of Yuji Naka, he coaxed some serious power outta the SMS, with the 3D dungeons being one major example

[@Dyxid]

Huh, I wasn't aware there was a Sonic game for the Master System. I did, however, know that the Master System gave us our first Phantasy Star.

[@VOAN]

It was mostly unknown at the time cause Sega port it way too late and right after the Sonic hype on Genesis/Mega Drive. At that point in time many people know Sonic only on the Genesis/Mega Drive and not SMS.

[@kameoosama]

As much problems as the SMS had in the US, at least we still got Phantasy Star, a decent version of Ys I, and modern gamers with a Genesis have easy access to the Master System library through a Power Base Converter or Everdrive

[@Dangic23]

I still have the Sega Master I received for Christmas 1986. Now my kids play it, they love playing Rocky Lol

[@sonicexereaper6814]

NGL, to add in my additional opinion, I didn’t like how the box arts are with its grid paper background. Not only they don’t feel right with some games, but some like Action Fighter can be confusing into knowing what gameplay to expect. Had to look up some games to see what their gameplay is like in order to feel interested into adding it to my wishlist of retro games. But that aside, the Master System was an underrated console that deserved a bit more love. Hell, it even had a better version of Sonic the Hedgehog versus the Game Gear.

[@isaacheres1354]

I am not sure if I understand color palletes, but Sega's games were so colorful. What comparasion you get when you put Alex Kidd next to Super Mario?