Sega's Desperate Attempt To Beat Nintendo

[@TheRealDustinNunn]

Correction: Sonic CD DID have a spin-dash in it. Do your research.

[@captaincid6488]

Been watching your channel for a few months now. I started gaming on the 2600 in the 80s and it's great to see someone enthusiastic about retro gaming. I really like how little stock footage you use and how often you use contemporary footage from the time period you are covering. Great channel.

[@pojr]

Thank you! I used to use way more stock footage, but in a lot of cases, it makes more sense to have game footage in the background

[@kekeke8988]

The SEGA CD was more like an attempt to compete with the PCE CD in Japan, where Sega was getting destroyed.

[@lazarushernandez5827]

Yep. pojr's take on this is very U.S. centric, and a few facts are slightly off because of this. The Megadrive was released in Japan in Oct 1988. By that time NECs PC Engine (launched in 87) was becoming very popular in Japan, and they would release their CD ROM shortly after, Dec of 88. If Sega had just responded to NECs efforts the Sega CD would have been much lower in cost. But Nintendo had both previewed Mode 7 and released their Super Famicom by 1990. Sega's Mega CD would not show up until 1991, with scaling and rotation abilities of its own. Also Sega didn't stop producing the Sega CD before releasing the 32X. On the contrary one of the mistakes Sega made during this time was having way too many hardware and software platforms on the market at the same time. There was a point in the 90s where you could find: Genesis, Sega CD, Game Gear, Master System (officially discontinued in the U.S. in 92, but software was still on the shelves), 32X, 32X CD and Saturn titles in the stores as well the hardware, including variants like the Sega Nomad, CD-X, and the WonderMega. The 32X was a response to the Atari Jaguar.

[@kekeke8988]

@@lazarushernandez5827 Completely insane, wasn't it.

[@fattomandeibu]

@@lazarushernandez5827 An issue that plagued the Mega CD was the lack of RAM, the 512kb included in the console to keep prices down wasn't really enough to run anything but the most basic 16-bit games. That's one of the reasons you get silly things like a version of Golden Axe and Final Fight that are single player only and wresting games that had tag and battle royal matches in the cart version but not on CD, they didn't have enough RAM to store all the sprite data, and unlike a cartridge, they couldn't instantly fetch more on a per frame basis, it takes seconds from a CD. NEC got around this by including the RAM on a card that went into the cart slot, instead of inside the CD add-on itself, and went on to issue bigger and bigger RAM cards(all the way up to 2MB) to keep up with the amount of RAM big games needed. I think Sega may have learned a bit from this, since they included the cart slot on the Saturn for that very reason.

[@Tornado1994]

@@lazarushernandez5827 Mega CD or "Sega Earth" started development in 1989 mostly as an Attempt to bring System 24 to the Mega Drive, originally in early '89, it started as a Joint Venture project between SEGA and Pioneer to Implement LaserDisc into Mega Drive and bring System 24 tech to MD as well before the Super Famicom was ready to take on Mega Drive. Pioneer and SEGA had a Line of LD Games in the Arcades in Japan during 1984 that proved to be successful. SEGA and Pioneer hit massive roadblocks in design and implementation in early 1990, so the deal was to retool the whole project into a CDX based one. SEGA also partnered up with JVC and signed a Patent Agreement that would allow Pioneer Licensing Rights to run the ROMs on its LaserDisc Multimedia Project "LaserActive".

[@patrickwagner6247]

Best Genesis add on = Power Base Converter.

[@buckjones4901]

The Sega CD did have some really good games for it not mentioned, Luna Silver Star and Lunar Eternal Blue were great JRPG's that come to mind. The CD music was a big help also, as the SNES had a dedicated sound/music chip, the Genesis didn't and the CD helped music quality as well as cut scene video which really didn't exist with cartridges. The 32X was just a bad idea all around and was a huge mistake. Sega Saturn was probably my favorite system Sega made.

[@FloofPuppy]

Love the dedication you're putting into this channel! Keep up the good work!

[@pojr]

Really appreciate it!!

[@SharifSourour]

I totally disagree about Sonic CD. The past and future mechanics are a fun twist on the gameplay. Not embracing that ruins the entire point of that game.

[@DavidSmith-bv8mv]

I would also say from a company's point of view Nintendo lost significantly more ground to Sega by the end of that gen in contrast to the NES which dominated nearly every region, contrast this with Nintendo barely holding on to the US region by the end and Sega dominating the European region, the only region to stay strongly Nintendo was japan. This gen was financialy very successful for Sega and Nintendo both, but Nintendo were disapointed with the SNES figures considering the NES domination of the 80s. It's all about perspectives.

[@therealjaystone2344]

I believe it’s how the nature of product whenever a sequel comes out that is bound not to outsell the first product.

[@Pepsidud32]

pretty false the Genesis was outdoing the SNES in the first couple years around 91-93 but the SNES eventually beat out the Genesis by 94-95 just due to Nintendo focusing on a huge lineup of great games. By focusing on the 32X it didn't put them on top all it did was just make them start slipping away.

[@DavidSmith-bv8mv]

@@Pepsidud32 What I've stated is completely true, actually. You also just stated what I said in another comment and added 91-93 and then strangely contradict yourself by stating 1994 later. If you'd seen my other comment here I would have saved you the bother, and I quote it below "What are you talking about. Stop with the revisionist history. Sega were beating Nintendo in sales from the inception of the SNES in 1990 and were 50/50 by Jan 94. This was just Sega making the first of many financial blunders. By the end of 94 Nintendo pulled a head ( the first time they ever did since the start of the 16 bit era as they were consistently playing catch up to Sega until that point )". Your welcome😏

[@aaronking9332]

32x was very exciting when it came out. Star wars arcade and Doom on a console for under 250 (for the Genesis and 32x together). I was sold on that alone and it was worth it. I literally jumped into the Sega ecosystem from super Nintendo at that moment so it wasn't like I already had a Genesis and upgraded. Flink and robo aleste and android assault on the Sega CD were worth it for that add on as well. Yes I was disappointed that they didn't reach their potential but they were impressive. Even now the mods to make doom even better on the 32x show just how awesome this hardware could have been given more time and developer attention

[@edrosa3485]

Congrats on the 10k! Really happy for you.

[@pojr]

Thank you!

[@Liam3072]

The 32X really wasn't an attempt at beating Nintendo. It was an attempt at extending the lifecycle of the Genesis while new machines were looming, like the 3DO and the Atari Jaguar. Sega of America, especially, thought that it made little sense to launch the Saturn when the Genesis was still very popular in North America, and suggested Sega focused its efforts on supporting the Genesis via add-ons, with the intent of also thwarting Atari's efforts with the Jaguar. While the Sega CD is arguably more about keeping an edge against Nintendo, CD was also regarded as the future of gaming at that time and everybody wanted in. Nintendo had a similar project and the PC-Engine, which was very popular in Japan, had the CD-ROM² extension (making the PC-Engine the first CD-compatible video games system) which was also a commercial success, which Sega hoped to emulate. Not everything is about Nintendo.

[@SonicCDspeedrunArchives]

Yeah, this is the problem retrospectives. The Sega CD was about learning for the future, the 32X was about competing with the 32-bit market (after their upcoming deal with Sony fell out), and calling Sonic CD a rehash in 1993 or even 1994 would have made sense to few if any. What a nuanced and informed take on the Super Peel Out though! Not. Also re: beating Nintendo, the most recent analysis of the US market was that the Genesis narrowly stayed on top. That was shown in the recent Saturn videos. (Now there's a disaster of a console that made me lose trust in Sega, didn't stop me from feeling the Dreamcast redeemed them when I got one in 1999 though. I just skipped the Saturn so it was all good.)

[@gc3k]

32X was mostly redundant. Genesis stock hardware was not only capable of drawing polygons at a playable framerate (Kawasaki Superbike Challenge is the best example), but Sega also created the SVP chip which allowed a decent port of Virtua Racing. Sega CD handled sprite scaling and rotation, along with high quality audio and more storage for large sprites and detailed animation, enough to port the popular sprite arcade games from Capcom, SNK and others. Plus their next gen console was right around the corner, why release any other consoles before that? Because Genesis along with Sega CD had a limited color palette that made the platform look old compared to the more colorful Super Nintendo. The color output of Genesis led Sega to make a number of poor decisions, in particular, releasing one Genesis add-on too many. Unfortunate because the Sega C2 arcade board is almost identical to a MD/Genesis, but with 1536 total colors and 512 colors onscreen, adequate enough to compete with SNES in the color department. I always believed the history of Sega consoles would have been very different if Mega Drive back in 1988 launched with a deeper color palette

[@Cade_The_Squirrel]

This channel is American gamer is the only perspective.

[@Tornado1994]

@@SonicCDspeedrunArchives Sony Ripped off and STOLE Jupiter from Sega of America in 1992.

[@WigWoo1]

9:13 what you’re showing is the spindash not the super peel. The super peel out is when you hold up on the deep pad and push the button and sonic starts to run in place

[@pojr]

True, super peelout is Up + Jump. If you press Down + Jump, you do roll in place, but it doesn't have the same properties as spindash. With spindash, you can repeatedly mash the button to make Sonic move fast, but Down + Jump in Sonic CD behaves similar to Super Peelout where you have to wait for the animation to finish.

[@Use_fediverse-7814]

They should have made an addon that wasnt 32X. Should of had an add-on for more simultaneous colors to compete with SNES, NeoGeo and TurboGrafx. Also, should of had 3d and psuedo 3D capabilities, plus two additional connectors for more controllers. That would have extended its life, then, they could have made a newer console with those capabilities backward comaptible with Sega.

[@lukasanakrumiris4846]

9:00 I mean Down + Jump Makes You Roll Like a Ball so It's by Definition a Spindash

[@MaxAbramson3]

First read that as, President "Down ald Jump."

[@heilong79]

Dont forget the Megadrive ran games at higher resolution, faster clock speeds and FM synth was clear and lacked the muffeled noise of the SNES.

[@calebprenger3928]

"there was no spindash in sonic cd". The he proceeds to show us spindash in sonic cd at 9:34

[@captzachevil]

My immediate thought when he said there was no spindash was that he was wrong. I do think the spindash implementation is different in CD though. That might have led to why he said that.

[@pojr]

Not really spindash. You still hold in the button (like super peel-out) rather than repeatedly press it (like spindash). And there's no additional animation, Sonic just rolls in place.

[@xuift]

@@pojrwell yea this game was going to be the original sonic 2 before the sonic 2 we got was even thought of, and also the time gimmick is actually very interesting the more you look into it.

[@johnp8587]

As a kid my family was really poor. That being said we didn't get a nes or super nes until way later. I think that seriously drove my interest for the sega 32x and sega cd. The idea of being able to upgrade your existing console seemed so awsome. Plus when I played a 32x I was blown Away by doom and starwars.

[@carlosnumbertwo]

I love looking at what we had compared to modern AAA. I was born in 82, I got to experience all of it! :D

[@chriswillis4960]

The problem at sega wasnt one marketing strategy it was that there was two, with two different ideas on how they should advance in the market, Sega of America wanted the 32X while Japan wanted their own Saturn which they created. SoAs ideal was to keep their existing consumer base by just ploping the mushroom on top, where Japan wanted a powerful new system from the ground up. At the same time it was japan that wanted the CD addon. The Genesis/Mega Drive did great outside of Japan but was awful in Japan. Oddly the Saturn was reversed, but this was also due to Japan not only telling SoA they had to release their new system, but release it early because they were scared of Sony, further destroying brand loyalty and angering companies along with customers that invested in the 32X and/or Sega CD.

[@chriswillis4960]

@@fantom0369 that is interesting to hear, I agree the 32X was a big Blunder as well as the early release of the Saturn.I feel the Sega CD and the 32X could have been so much more but its hard to support platforms and stretch yourself thin like Sega did. Segas biggest mistake was splitting course so many times and not working with all companies they involved themselves with when it came to the Saturn.

[@sidearmsalpha]

@@chriswillis4960 Yeah, I heard Saturn game development suffered because SEGA didn't really help 3rd party companies and since Saturn games were harder to program, the games suffered. It was much easier to just go with Sony and make games that were much easier to make. Let's just say...mistakes were made.

[@Adamtendo_player_1]

SOA destroyed Sega with their poor marketing of the Saturn and that fool Nakayama let his pride, jealousy and arrogance get in the way both SOJ and SOA were run by complete boobs in comparison to Nintendo who knew what they were doing.

[@jul1440]

As an American who remembers the release of the Sega CD, I never all that much cared for our Sonic CD soundtrack, but the Japanese soundtrack is FIRE!! 🔥🎶 Also, the CD version _does_ have the spin dash; you have to hold UP+JUMP to spin dash.

[@droiduseruserdroid1731]

It wasn't that third parties did not want to make games for the 32X, it was that Sega of Japan sh*t-canned the 32X because Sega of Japan did not want the Genesis / 32x / Sega CD competing with the Saturn. The Genesis 3 was allowed to continue to exist solely because of the involvement of Majesco that marketed the Genesis in South American countries (and the US).

[@Tornado1994]

32X was a horrible idea. A Half Baked Solution for MARS dreamed up by Sega of America who wanted NOTHING to do with SATURN. Which was a HUGE mistake on SOA's part.

[@SharifSourour]

A big problem with the 32X is it had weak sound. Unlike the Sega CD which drastically improved the sound. This made some customers angry since 32X came after and worsened the sound.

[@DDavEE]

Wasn't that more of an issue with compression and storage limits of using cartridges vs CDs? There were Sega CD 32X titles that would have been able to take advantage of CD quality sound.

[@SharifSourour]

@@DDavEE yes I think that was part of the point of the combined 32X CD releases.

[@Tornado1994]

@@SharifSourour 32X was a Messy, underdeveloped hodgepodge of System 32 Components and Chips without a DSP Bus that piggybacked off the Genesis' Motorola 68000, the Hardware used QSound, but it relied on the Motorola 68000, by Separating the CPU's main 16-bit Bus with a tiny 4KB Sound program coding, STI developers and SOA realized it botched and bottlenecked the CPU, so they resorted to just mixing Code on Z80 and Overworking and Clocking the YM2612 Chip.

[@SharifSourour]

@ thanks for the deets!

[@SharifSourour]

The graphics of Virtua Fighter on 32X do not look bad. Do you know what the game is supposed to look like? Do your eyes work?

[@johnny19817]

I own both of them. Ok, the 32x is not so good as expected but has the best Mortal Kombat II version of every console. On the other hand, Mega CD (I live in Europe) has many interesting titles to choose from and I love it ❤❤

[@chriswheatley3146]

You might want to redo your research on this. The SegaCD was created as a response to the PCEngine CD in Japan. The Sega 32X was done as a response to the Jaguar in the United States.

[@SergioPadilla-g2n]

The guy didn't live though it. He's just a wikipedia KZbinr.

[@MCastleberry1980]

For what it's worth at least the Star Wars Arcade port was pretty rad

[@sidearmsalpha]

SOA and SOJ were both trying to make hardware that would succeed in their markets. The fact that Mega Drive/Genesis was doing very well outside Japan didn't convince SOJ to work with SOA to successfully extend the life of the MD. I got a Genesis when the console hit its peak but even I could see that SEGA CD and 32X would be flops, especially the 32X. I would have been fine with SEGA just focusing on great Genesis games up until the release of Saturn. Or dropping the price of the CD system and focusing on enhanced versions of Genesis games and arcade ports instead of all those crappy FMV games.

[@Adamtendo_player_1]

If anything SOJ were jealous of SOA doing what they couldn’t do in Japan because of that fool Nakayama.

[@Tornado1994]

@@Adamtendo_player_1 NO. Wrong.

[@Tornado1994]

SEGA of Japan development Saturn or "Aurora" in 1993 because the entire Jupiter Roadmap had been botched by SOA's Incompetence(They GAVE it away to Sony in '92) SOJ also was ready to move into 3D and believed "Mapped Based Design" was the way to go. SOJ kept SOA in the dark about the project. Nakayama did reveal it to Kalinske at October and had him sign NDAs, but Kalinske and Mike Katz never told him OR David Rosen or Martin Bromberg that He and Katz already approved a separate solution for MARS "Genesis 32" instead of the "Sega CD32" that had been ordered in Early '93 by SOJ. Kalinske also attempted to pitch "G64" a Chipset designed by SGI, before Nakayama informed him of SEGA's $4 billion deal with Lockheed Martin signed in late 1990. SOJ HATED the 32X idea, they attempted to scrap it in Early 1994, but Isao Okawa at CSK overruled them and approved it anyway.

[@paul329]

I felt burned after I bought my 32X. They sold it at a heavy discount right after Christmas and then abandoned it by the summer. I never bought another SEGA console after that.

[@sidearmsalpha]

I passed on both the SEGA CD and 32X even though I loved my Genesis. I knew Saturn would be coming soon and it was a great system despite the blunders SEGA made with it. I even got the Dreamcast and it too was great but it wasn't good enough to take on PS2. I eventually got a used SEGA CD years after it was discontinued along with a lot of the best games for it. Never touched the 32X. It's still a major turd to this day and I will only play the games through emulation.

[@101Volts]

I felt burned when I got a brand new one in 2003, too. Some of the 32x titles just didn't work right - and it was because of the 2 white ribbon cables in the system itself, they weren't making good contact, and they needed re-seated often. I only found that out about 2 months after purchase.

[@gjergjaurelius9798]

Nintendo made shitty add ons too. Famicom disc, satelliteview, and N64 disc.

[@AndDeathForAll82]

Sega CD is legit, but the 32X, Nomad, and Neptune R&D were gigantic wastes of money for Sega. The botched Saturn launch was the cherry on top.

[@DDavEE]

I loved that SEGA was trying new things during that time period. CDs in the early 90s were cutting edge tech and the Sega CD felt like the future of gaming. It's failure had more to due with its price of entry more than anything else. I bought mine around the time when they first started to discount them. I think I paid around $200 new for mine back around '94 or '95. As for the 32X, it would have been fine had SEGA just picked a lane from the start instead of developing two competing 32bit platforms and then abandoning 32X so quickly after launch. Games like Star Wars Arcade, Virtua Racing Deluxe and Mortal Kombat II proved that the 32X was a more than capable 32bit platform. Had SEGA abandoned Saturn in favor of 32X, we would have gotten the infamous Neptune system that would have combined 32X and Genesis into one console and would have been a great solution for those looking to migrate from SNES to SEGA. It would have given new users access to the large library of Genesis games + the new 32X library - backwards compatibility is something the Saturn would never have been able to offer.

[@Da_Benski]

I never really liked mode 7 games. I preferred the scaling on SEGA titles like Road Rash. Sega Genesis really shined on arcade style games. Anything with fighting or racing felt better on the Genesis for me.

[@LukeBartlett-j7e]

My friend got a sega cd on release, I thought the fmv game were shite even back then lol.

[@craigdavidson5613]

I'm one who believes Sega had great systems. The add-ons were mainly expensive at the time, but I managed to get them cheaply second hand. They still work well when I play them, and am a huge fan of the tower of power. I mean, I started with a Sega Mega Drive Model I which I got for $5AU at a local Charity Shop, and the rest I got online. Lucky!

[@Adamtendo_player_1]

The only really great systems Sega had were the Mega Drive and the Saturn.

[@Tornado1994]

SEGA had Quality Control and HEART and Soul.

[@PhilipMarcYT]

The 32X/CD add-ons were honestly weird, bulky, and unnecessary, but now if you want to get good games for it you can, just look up Sega Lord X videos about those two add-ons (can't call them consoles because they're not, unless you want to get technical about the obscure revisions that were made). Also, I once had a Sega CD, but the thing only booted up once and then it never worked again. What a PoS lol, yet I still kept it as it felt a collectible... Only later to sell it off. Great review again, Pojr!

[@Riz2336]

Lot of people said sega lost their touch with the Saturn. Nah it happened before that

[@maroon9273]

Right, it happened during 1993. The genesis had declined in popularity during the end of 1993 due to sega cd hardware failure. Which painted the genesis as a aging outdated system which made its reputation worst in 1994. Which led to the creation of the 32x which was the final nail in the coffin for the company and a pathway to bankruptcy.

[@Bronxguyanese]

In north America Sega should have stuck with Genesis and no add ons. Genesis was very successful in the United States and outsold snes for most of the 90s until snes dominated in the mid 90s.

[@RetroPiero]

I think the SEGA CD was an amazing add on, i just wish like they did over in SOJ, SOA would have freaking scraped their hard on for FMVs & focused more on just actual games. The 32x though was a failed idea from beginning to end.

[@charlottesdad3327]

I was around for this period of gaming. Problem was, everyone knew the playstation was right around the corner, so no one was buying anything. Once the playstation came out, Sega was doomed.

[@SomeCanine]

They really had no shame putting out expensive console addons with new consoles only like half a year away. Maybe it wasn't such a ridiculous time table in Japan but they had to know it was foolish in America.

[@TanookiSuit]

That's the classic Sega move of the 90s, lie your ass off in ads and misdirect to lure in pliable kids and parents to buy their hardware despite being fairly week outside of the fast main chip it had. I'm not playing favorites, I have both. Segas (and other companies) behaviors of that era kept me from paying them a dime for those various products as I felt if you had to lie to sell, you're covering up a crappier product. The shame with Sega was making their add-ons in the poorest ways possible, competing against itself, hardware that each needed another a/v cable and annoying a big power brick. it's like they were so blind they wanted to run away those who fell for their kool-aid ad campaign with the base system.

[@adamb89]

It wasn't to beat Nintendo, it was Sega demonstrating that they didn't know what the hell they were doing, and had never learned a lesson that "better hardware doesn't mean better sales." That's all they'd been trying to do ever since the Famicom days, the Master System was superior to the NES but had no games. The Genesis was also superior, but still had no games. By the time they HAD games, the SNES was already kicking its ass. Sony joined the fight. Sega was losing on both fronts, but didn't know what to do. New console? No time--make a CD add-on to stay relevant! Make a 32x addon to stay relevant! Anything to kick that can down the curb, but the end result was this giant unwieldy wad of plastic that didn't fit anyone's entertainment system, that required an ungodly number of AC adapters to power the whole thing. So people who didn't already have a Genesis (which was the majority) had very little incentive to get in on that mess when the Playstation was right around the corner as a standalone CD system. Sega finally pulled their head out of their ass with the Saturn around the same time, but it was too late. The Dreamcast came out not long after, leaving gamers scratching their heads whether it was worth buying a Saturn, or a Dreamcast, or just skipping both in favor of companies with more reliable release cycles and better libraries like Nintendo and Sony. And then Microsoft entered the fray by throwing their endless sums of money to get the Xbox off the ground, and Sega finally threw in the towel.

[@tedwardtaylortv]

I think Sonic CD is a great game and while it has a vibe and art style more like Sonic 1, it has completely different zones. It looks like sonic 1 because it was made by sonic team in Japan where as sonic 2 was made by sega in America. I have sonic cd on my iPad and on the Mega CD. It’s a great game.

[@soli-ethd]

The 32X and Sega CD had their fair share of games that made little sense and some just would've made more sense being on the Genesis. Cosmic Carnage, for example, I don't think has any reason to be on 32X as it did almost nothing to differentiate itself from the stock Genesis. (Great music, though! If anyone reading this didn't know, a track from its OST serves as the background music for the conclusion of pojr's videos.)

[@brycehippensteel928]

I’d say compared to the Sega CD, the 32X is the most pointless add on for the Genesis.

[@pojr]

I agree

[@maroon9273]

It is the worst around add-on of all times.

[@tylermathis-kx7pu]

One important thing to remember about Sega is that the American division was usually right and and the Japanese branch was usually wrong and they both quarreled about how move past the Genesis. The American branch shouldn’t have done the 32X, but the Japanese branch pooped the bed with both the Sega CD and the Saturn (outside of Japan). Sega of Japan’s stubbornness is ultimately what sunk them, even though Sega of America was not blameless…

[@Liam3072]

This is often repeated, but it's mostly based on ex-Sega of Americas sayings. I'd be curious to hear the japanese side of the story, but good luck getting the japanese to talk, especially when it comes to conflicts and the like.

[@sidearmsalpha]

Yup. I think SOJ's pride was hurt when the Genesis was doing significantly better. Still, SOA needed the dev teams from SOJ to make good games for 32X and I'm sure SOJ was making that difficult.

[@chriswheatley3146]

With the 32x / Saturn debate, I'd say that Sega of America was definitely the more stubborn of the two. The Saturn would have done much better in the States if not for the 32x, the initial price tag, and early release. It had also been proven from previous consoles that addons do not help increase console sales. These conflicts continued on between both and America and Japan until Sega's eventual demise; even with the Dreamcast (vs the black belt project).

[@3rdalbum]

​@@chriswheatley3146 I can't comment on the stubbornness, but SoJ's decision to split the Saturn's power across two main CPUs, with very few game developers having any experience in multiprocessing, was a bad mistake that hampered the perceived power of the Saturn. Developers took a long time to get impressive-looking games out.

[@The_Future_isnt_so_Bright]

The 32x should have just been more ram and a enhancement chip to fix issues on games like sonic when he got hit and all the rings would bring the game to a crawl. Why was Doom not released as a CD32x title? Only one game was released like that during the console's lifespan.

[@thiagofoliveira]

While I do love your videos, I must make a correction to the very first phrase uttered. About Sega during the initial portable generation as well as 8 bit console gen having the best hardware. What you stated is true when we talk about the North American market, but it certainly is not true when it comes to Japan. Prior to the Mark III/Master System, the Mark I (SG-1000) was actually inferior to the Famicom (NES). They were both released during the same week, and the Nintendo console was superior. By the time of the Mark III the reality had shifted. Sega did suffer from a compulsions when it comes to hardware updates, upgrades and entirely new releases. 32-X vs. Saturn was one of the most asinine moves ever done by a company.

[@csolisr]

I wonder if a proper Sega MegaDrive/Genesis with both the CD and 32X attachments would be technically feasible to mod into a single chipset. Also, Master System and Game Gear compatibility would be nice.

[@Oysterblade84]

The closest ever released to that was the JVC XEYE and the Sega Multi Mega. They had both a cartridge slot and a disc drive and were in the same console.

[@csolisr]

@@Oysterblade84 Problem is, they didn't include the 32X, and they didn't include the expansion port required to make it work either IIRC. Then there was the prototype Sega Neptune, which did have the 32X pieces but not the CD reader...

[@sidearmsalpha]

I would rather see an indie developer basically make a game that would use the specs of all three combined to make a great game to show what could have been the potential of that setup. I know there were a few games that utilized the CD and 32X during the life of those consoles but I think they were just enhanced versions of bad FMV games.

[@Adamtendo_player_1]

Master System and Game Gear can take a hike, backwards compatibility was wheee Sega went wrong in my opinion with the Mega Drive.

[@3rdalbum]

​@@Adamtendo_player_1 The Genesis / Mega Drive had everything it needed to run Master System games, so a hybrid Genesis/CD/32X system would also be backward compatible (assuming an adapter for the cartridge slot). Backward compatibility could not be removed from the Genesis as the components used for backward compatibility are also used as part of the Genesis architecture; i.e. the Genesis included the Master System's CPU and reassigned it as the sound chip when operating in Genesis mode. I hear some games even used it as an accelerator.

[@thatvectorguy2972]

"There is no Nintendo CD" Thank fucking god.

[@huldu]

That 32x was just weird. A friend had it and it did not impress me at all at the time. I also remember the playstation coming out and it blew away sega and nintendo. After that I didn't buy another console ever since. I'm happy I got experience nes and sega during the mid-late 80's.

[@pojr]

Yeah a lot of the games didn't look much better than Genesis ones. Of course there's some exceptions like metal head.

[@Liam3072]

@@pojr The main reason is that the 32X had two CPUs like the Saturn, but no GPU proper. As such, it had no hardware scrolling and no hardware sprites. Devs struggled to do it all in software and so resorted to using the Genesis either for the sprites, or for the backgrounds. In Knuckles Chaotix for example, only the sprites are handled via the 32X. The whole backgrounds are actually drawn by the Genesis and inherit its color limitations. It's the same for many other games, like Primal Rage and Mortal Kombat 2.

[@Tornado1994]

@@Liam3072 The Saturn did NOT use 2 CPUs. That it FALSE. My Friend Sega United owner of TS Enterprises can explain FAR more.

[@funnystuff76]

When you know that Sega Japan forced Sega of America to put out the 32x even if the Saturn was about to come out, it is easy to believe that Sega of Japan was just jalous of SoA with their success of the Genesis, success that SoJ didn't had at all, and that they just put that scheme out to break down SoA.

[@i-dont-burn-under-the-sun]

Was it? I've seen reports that the 32x was Kaliski idea. He tends to whitewash his failiures and the fact that he didn't have faith on the Saturn and wanted to still sell the Genesis suports that idea.

[@fantom0369]

@@i-dont-burn-under-the-sun the 32X was actually an agreed upon idea that SoJ created and SoA marketed because Kalinski didn't think it was a good idea to abandon the Genesis userbase, ultimately SoJ is every bit to blame for it as SoA and should have just outright said no but instead they built the bloody thing.

[@MaxAbramson3]

The Sega CD was supposed to come out months earlier, have 256KB of RAM, and 2x CD-ROM, and cost only $149. It would then make sense to add a RISC based SVP LockOn and RAM expansion another year later for Christms of 1993 to handle all of those flat shaded polygon games.

[@Helladamnleet]

The next part where they screwed up is the Saturn wasn't backwards compatible with AT LEAST the CD line up.

[@damin9913]

The add on was pointless even the sega of America guy told them to just stick with the sega genesis only but people refused that's why they failed badly when the sega genesis is all they needed even I know that

[@Adamtendo_player_1]

The GameCube was more powerful than the Dreamcast so it wasn’t the first time Nintendo beat Sega in hardware technologically.

[@SonofSethoitae]

Nah, the Sega CD was to compete with NEC's PC Engine CD (as was Nintendo's aborted CD add-on), and the 32X was merely to prolong the lifespan of the Genesis until the Saturn came out, against hardware like the 3DO and Jaguar; Hayao Nakayama was reportedly very concerned about those two. Neither was really an attempt to beat Nintendo. Edit: "the Super Nintendo outclassed the Sega Genesis in most aspects" This isn't true? They had very different architecture, but the Genesis' processor was a 32/16 bit hybrid processor clocked at twice the speed of the SNES' processor. Additionally, while many developers underutilized it, the Genesis' Yamaha YM 2612 FM synth chip was a highly capable piece of tech. The problem wasn't that it was underpowered, but that it was harder to use than a sample based chip because you had to make all the sounds yourself.

[@CarecaRetrogamer]

"Underutilized"... Makes me think of LOTS of games really badly programmed (lack of hardware knowledge) and the INFAMOUS Slowrom chip, which made the SNES games run with 66% less processor speed...

[@CarecaRetrogamer]

Also, comparing 2 processors with DIFFERENT archtecture comparing ONLY the MHz is just WRONG. 1.5 MIPs will ALWAYS be MORE than 1.3 MIPs...

[@SonofSethoitae]

@@CarecaRetrogamer I mean, even mips aren't a wholly accurate point of comparison. There are obviously a lot of factors that go into console performance.

[@CarecaRetrogamer]

@@SonofSethoitae It's true, I do agree with that, but it's still a better way of comparison than just looking at the clock speed, man... Some processors are just better doing certain functions than others, and I totally agree that a real, thourough comparison, a "benchmark" per se, like we do with modern processors... But alas, I don't even know HOW that could be accomplished...

[@fantom0369]

SEGA didn't take a back seat when the SNES was released, it wasn't until SEGA discontinued the Genesis that the SNES beat it in sales and I don't count that. You don't win a race by taking extra laps after the race is over. you're thinking of the Japanese Mega Drive Vs the Super Famicom. Also note the SEGA CD was actually demanded by Genesis fans. the 32X on the other hand was not. the 32X was a foolish mistake but the early release of the saturn was their biggest blunder.

[@x7heDeviLx]

Nintendo is king of using whatever hardware to create great games and tightly control their ip to maximize synergy between all the arms of the company if that makes sense I’m bad at explaining 😅

[@ice_cube8302]

"Why did both consoles lose to nintendo" pause video. Games. It was always games back in the day. Its always been about better games. Sega game gear had like zero support. Master system had like zero support. It was always the games. Unpause. Games. Yup.

[@mikeypie24]

I disagree. Yes the 32x was pointless. The sega cd was not pointless. It had some really good games throw away the FMV GAMES. And the sega cd had SOME GOOD GAMES THAT SHOWED OFF THE SEGA CD

[@Lhead88]

Yeah look at Fatal Fury special Samurai Showdown Final Fight CD Batman lazy programmers did sega CD dirty. Mortal Kombat 1 on sega CD is my favorite from back than just for the sound track however they could have done so much more for that game. Sega CD adepted sengoku japan only fatal fury and SS best looking non neogeo home ports. I'm sure MK could have been the same. While I hate fmv games some were done good like mansion of hidden souls. There is alot of good on sega CD lords of thunder robo aleste. It's a very unique and awesome add on.

[@kranibal]

You are an awesome YT video creator. Narration and included footage makes your videos top tier! Great work!

[@GAZZ707]

Sonic cd did have a spin dash just not as good because in the original version you can't button mash to speed up you have to wait, and sonic cd was originally going to be a enhanced port of sonic 1 and the sonic 1 code was used for cd as well

[@bildo1977]

Anyone here have a Sega CDX? I do. It’s a compact Sega Genesis and Sega CD in one. It only uses one power supply, and it’s compatible with the Power Base Converter, though it’s not ascetically pleasing to the eye when connected. lol

[@Monhamd1000]

At least Sega did mange to have CD add-on unlike the SNES. And calling it "pointless" will get you some heat for it.

[@TheIndigoShine]

Yeah fellas... Sega worst enemy fr... Was themselves in the end. Because they also didn't co-op well between their USA department and Japan department. They were just a mess. And it cost em good. Tbh... Things have change so much... I wonder if SEGA should make consoles again. Maybe not. Because again, they need games. Maybe they could sell a console with, and with... Only the best games that came to their console and other consoles. Maybe it could be just a hella powerful physical machine for emulation. You know that might not be a horrible idea!

[@PKSuperStar256]

I believe it would be really interesting for you to talk about the PC Engine/TurboGrafx-16 as it sort of did the same thing but had much more success in Japan (under the former name). The console never really did well under the latter name outside Japan. It basically was the console success from a company that wasn't Nintendo in this country, as North America (and South America to this day) had SEGA's Genesis.

[@russmawson6744]

The video keeps referring to the 32X as a console. It wasn't a console as it could not be used stand alone. It's an add on. To be considered a console it would need to be fully useable on its own but it's not.

[@xenxander]

They did virtually nothing with the Sega CD but put shitty rail games with video in them that were horrible. Use that space for larger game worlds, or for .. sure music. But the video? They had to know that was crap. Everyone did.. except Sega of America?

[@i-dont-burn-under-the-sun]

It easy in hindsight to bash console addons. But people always ignore the fact that the PC Engine CD was quite successful in Japan. That's why other companies followed that idea.

[@andrewwebber5705]

I remember all the hype from Sega CD owners about Sonic CD. I only had the Genesis as a kid and didn't get to play SEGA CD until I was an adult. When I finally played Sonic CD I was like really? This is what is so ground breaking? Sonic 2 is a way better game, so I think it's fair to say those of us whom didn't' have a SEGA CD didn't miss out on much.

[@i-dont-burn-under-the-sun]

Sonic CD focused on exploration and puzzles using momentum. It was more experimental. If you go just once start to finish just for the bad ending you're hardly experiencing the game.

[@BlueMSX.]

very good retrospective pojr, another fine video!

[@pojr]

Thank you!

[@juanwhitfield7626]

"There is no Nintendo CD.." 🤣 😂 Not yet, there wasn't.

[@johnnyortega5453]

Hi! Hey what is the name of the song(or track) you use in your conclusion section?

[@pojr]

It's from cosmic carnage on the 32X.

[@johnnyortega5453]

Really? Insane! I played that game over 2 decades ago (it was a friend of mine who had it. I also got a 32x back then but had Doom and Star Wars) but for the life of me I couldn't remember its soundtrack. Thanks for the info and keep up the good work!

[@MrClawt]

The whole Sega vs Nintendo war was a wild time.As a Super Nintendo owner, I liked a lot of Sega games but I never liked the way most music sounded. I remember playing Might and Magic 2 on Sega and loving it so much I temporarily traded my Snes for a Genesis for a month. For some reason I never saw Might and Magic in stores for the Snes.

[@pojr]

Some Genesis games sound like farting, especially ones that use the GEMS software.

[@MrClawt]

@@pojr hahahhaha! It's been a tough day and I needed a good laugh. Thanks POJR!

[@DissociatedWomenIncorporated]

@@pojrand yet others have an incredible soundtrack. The SNES used baby mode sampling based sound hardware, whereas the Mega Drive had a real synthesiser sound chip. For the most part, this meant the SNES just had mediocre music, rarely terrible, rarely great.

[@maroon9273]

​@@pojrhorrible sound effects

[@Adamtendo_player_1]

@@pojrGEMS was a major reason why the Mega Drive (Genesis) has such an awful reputation for audio which isn’t deserved at all.

[@Trys0]

Keep going with this content!

[@pojr]

Thank you!

[@FeralInferno]

TIME BONUS!

[@pojr]

Lol

[@FeralInferno]

@@pojr old-school Pojr reference 😁👍

[@kdb1981]

You missed a great opportunity to discuss the 5 rarest genesis games the Sega 32X-CD hybrid FMV games

[@JD-xz1mx]

This paints sega's hardware as some aggressive attempt at competition...... What's complete nonsense. Sega was always out there with zany hardware choices. Was it also a "desperate" attempt to conpete with nintendo when the Naomi had both catridge and disc based media? This is clearly a Nintendo fan that's not very familiar with sega as a company.

[@curtisrobinson-gc5dm]

Pointless!?? I love my Sega CD sonic CD ,sewer shark, digital pictures games had my friends jaw drop the CD quality sounds was great. The 32x had bigger players on NBA jam te and star racer was fun too

[@mitch_sorenstein]

pojr. Thank you for putting out these great vids 😉

[@pojr]

Thank you!

[@JampleyDevEs]

All those addons must have confused a lot of people, too. And I guess it's hard to develop good games for a console that changes so much.

[@zeedee3929]

Context is everything and so easily lost on those that look back without proper or limited perspective. So many creators that make videos about retro consoles miss so much as they didn't live in the time and so are often wrong about the material they cover. Wiki searches and old magazine articles will get you only so far and more often than not lead one to an inaccurate view or missing importance. Example: Tons of KZbin video's about the Sega CD. Have you ever heard any of these reviews talk about how, in that time, expensive a CD player was to buy? Did they mention how It was a very big deal to even have a CD player in the home, much less one that could play games as well? Average people considered it a luxury to have a music CD player, as did I, and it was an opportunity to not only increase the power and longevity of my console but to add a CD player to my stereo system and household. Today the idea that "CD" part of the Sega CD would be very important, meaningful, and separate detail is lost to generational differences but to people during that time it was a HUGE selling point.

[@curtisrobinson-gc5dm]

Game boy out sold game gear because game boy was cheap. Game gear had color you could even watch TV on it

[@federicocatelli8785]

Gameboy outsold gamegear , lynx etc because of battery life

[@cliffjumper1984]

There was a time I went to a Hills in 1996 (summer I think) and I worked at the time. They has 32x and virtual boy on clearance 19.99 and 29.99 respectively. I didnt have a genesis, bit had the snes. But best friend across the street had a genesis tho. Should of grabbed them at those price points at the time. But I was worried about my rock cd collection lol😂😂😂😂

[@pojr]

I remember hills! Insane that the console was discounted that much.

[@cliffjumper1984]

@pojr yea. I don't have many cds anymore vs physical games. It's crwzy

[@thecentralscrutinizer304]

It's as simple as this early on: Genesis MKI had a blood code, Super Nintendo didn't. That's the ONLY reason I wanted a Genesis over Super Nintendo in 1993. Glad my mom knew better, DKC was xmas 1994 and it was the greatest xmas ever.

[@piratesephiroth]

I only have to disagree about the Master System beating the NES in all aspects. It is superior in graphics and that's it. The audio is inferior and it even has less buttons on the controllers.

[@pojr]

Good point, you're not wrong about it

[@Embargoman]

The same thing applies with Atari with the Atari Jaguar.

[@michaeljordan6008]

Aladdin and Jurassic Park were much better on Genesis. And all of the EA sports games, were much better on Genesis.

[@Oysterblade84]

Most of the time it's a case of quantity over quality although to be fair the SNES was full of both a great library of games being a large quantity and great quality in their games. The Master System had the quality in the games but had no third party support so no large quantity compared to the NES, the Mega Drive/Genesis on it's own had both much like the SNES but somewhere around 1994 onwards i'd say the Mega Drive/Genesis was saturated with so many crappy third party games that offered no more than a lackluster of 5 minutes of play as the quality in the system's library of games started declining around that point. Also it depends on the region where the consoles fought. In Europe/Australia/Brazil the NES was a flop and the Master System and Mega Drive/Genesis did extremely well. In the United States the NES and Genesis did well but not the Master System. Great video Pojr.

[@maroon9273]

Plus, low quality developed games. Which lead to creation of terrible graphical and sound engines. Ie the gem sound engine and ect.

[@Adamtendo_player_1]

@@maroon9273 sound images is another low quality sound engine that’s actually worse than GEMS.

[@johferson09]

The Sonic CD part killed me inside

[@valrond]

Pointless addons? I guess hindsight really is 20/20 except, well, yeah, the 32X wasn't very good, but the MegaCD was not only a good addon, even if it wasn't fully used, but EVERYONE was starting to use CD-ROMS back then. Even Nintendo was going to release a CD addon for the SNES and instead... they created Playstation. And I mean everyone, all consoles and PCs were using it, PCEngine, 3DO, CD-I, Amiga CD32, etc, and Nintendo stuck for cartridges for the N64, which was a colossal blunder.

[@VOAN]

The funny part is that those same consoles that embrace CDs also still rely on cartridges for their memory storage. PS1 use memory cartridges to save games, PC engine CD used RAM HuCard to save games, even the NeoGeo which still cartridges also support support memory cartridges, Saturn used Ram cartridges, and Sega Genesis used RAM cart for game save on a few of their Sega CD games. Saying disc are the future while still relying on cartridges is laughable.

[@maroon9273]

However, the sega cd hardware is a overkill and unnecessary with it's scaler chip and extra cpu.

[@Adamtendo_player_1]

I will defend the N64 Nintendo at the time was correct in that there was no load times in cartridges but they were also wrong due to the storage limitations of cartridges plus I like the N64 a lot and I stuck with the N64 I sold my PlayStation and I have no regrets due to the great resting games it had and obviously didn’t Nintendo exclusives.

[@firestriker3580]

WRONG. The PCCD was first. Sega CD was a bad addon

[@firestriker3580]

Nintendo was not wrong.

[@Gsa-the-HedgeGod]

9:01 uh there is a spindash but it's related to super peel out in Sonic CD

[@jessicasretrolunacy]

If you want an example of a truly misguided and tonedeaf add on, check out the N64DD. The 32X was implemented in a boneheaded way but its concept and intent was not without merit. Also you need to look at all regions. The Master System was adored in Europe and South America, and the Saturn outsold the N64 in Japan. Sega's big problem was they could never get all of their markets working together and their Japanese and American wings constantly bickered.

[@fazares]

Fantastic video as usual...i m a proud owner of a sega 32x usa and a japanese mega cd 2 btw ^^

[@WeirdoError]

By our powers combined - we will form the super-ultra-mega Sega console! ...and by combined powers I'm referring to all the electrical outlets taken up by Sega hardware in your entertainment center.

[@georgef551]

Actually, SEGA DID lie to consumers. "Blast Processing" was not in any game tile ever released. It was a misrepresentation of a DMA ability to bypass the CPU to draw colors on the screen. Basically, it's just a pixel-pusher, but you had full access to all 512 colors in the palate. Problem is it worked similar to Atari 2600 with it had to be done "Racing the Beam", as you had to input timings, the actual color to draw, similar to the 2600. Problem is, all of the Genesis's processing was needed just to display a full 512-color image on the screen, zero cpu cycles for anything else. There were tricks where colors would alternate every other frame to somewhat simulate an image with almost 230K colors, but it was very flickery, so there were only a useful 4K colors in the trick. There are resources online to tech magazines that go into detail about it, since links in comments are a taboo practice.

[@georgef551]

@@inceptional ...especially since someone did a homebrew version of a Sonic the Hedgehod level, and outside of slowdown when losing rings, the speed was there. There's videos of it in stages of development.

[@georgef551]

@@inceptional Heck, there's a space-themed game for the NES that scrolled faster than Sonic at running speed.

[@fantom0369]

actually they didn't lie, their "blast processing" commercials did not once say they actually used it. only that the system had it which was true.

[@fantom0369]

@@inceptional oh how nice of you to try to insult me. I had my Genesis long before that marketing campaign and honestly thought the whole thing was BS but the commercials were kinda cool but, turds like you fell for nintendo's garbage from the start didn't you? I wasn't their target nor was I the target of Nintendo's BS campaigns. in fact I haven't fallen for any console campaigns ever but I suspect you have. Nintendo lied to us from the very beginning and still do. I had both consoles and honestly I never managed to get any game that proved the superiority of either of them. take your insults and shove em where the sun doesn't shine nintendo fanboy, console/company fanboys are the worst.

[@georgef551]

@@fantom0369 True, but they implied it. They simply had double the clock speed. Nintendo thought the graphic enhancing hardware would more than bury the Genesis, but the clock speed was it's weak point.

[@LordOrwell]

I don't think the sega cd was pointless. It brought a lot to the game, literally.

[@juststatedtheobvious9633]

Either Lunar blows away the rest of the Megadrive JRPG library, and the CD version of Eternal Champions really helps the fighting game library. Add in Sonic and Snatcher, and anyone claiming the CD wasn't worth making is engaged in Nintendo fanboy historical revisionism. Especially given Nintendo's far worse record with add-ons. (64DD anyone?)

[@juststatedtheobvious9633]

Either Lunar blows away the rest of the Megadrive JRPG library, and the CD version of Eternal Champions really helps the fighting game library. Add in Sonic and Snatcher, and anyone claiming the CD wasn't worth making is engaged in Nintendo fanboy historical revisionism. Especially given Nintendo's far worse record with add-ons. (64DD anyone?)

[@Adamtendo_player_1]

The was pointless because it didn’t really add anything apart from red book audio it still had the same colour limitations as the mega drive and most of its games were FMV garbage.

[@cutsupremenumba1]

32x was not a console just a add on

[@Cade_The_Squirrel]

Wow, not even a minute in and I'm already anmoyed, the SNES is not 1. Better lineup of games? Excuse me? The Master System had tons of games the NES had but in better forms, if you like plodding Mario that's fine but dont make such subjective statements like they are fact. 2. The SNES was not outright more powerful than the Mega Drive or Genesis for you yanks, the SNES had a much slower more complicated CPU aswell as slower DMA, this means that if the SNES had to rapidly move data around it caused performance to dip, yes the SNES did have sprite scaling and rotation built in (Master System actually had integer sprite scaling built in) but this was rarely used in any meaningful capacity because it was so heavy on bandwidth, where as the Mega Drive had the grunt to power through it in software.