BGA Reballing Reflow Rework VS Moisture

[@oektomo]

Nearly 9 years ago I popcorn my board and now I know why. Dude, you restore my confidence to do reflow and reballing again. Thank you so much.

[@Dyaxxis]

I used to work for several well-known EMC's and they had orders from many manufacturers on "brand new PCB's" and certain components to follow a very similar procedure you show here for the very same reason. So even new boards and components could have certain water based or other volatile compounds that too need to be evaporated carefully before assembly. And yes, sometimes even new items may have those "latent failures", despite not easily being identified by the naked human eye. So as unbelievable as it may be at times, I went by the phrase, "When in doubt, bake it out." Thanks for the video!

[@NikTelio]

i agree :)

[@fikririzkislamet6808]

I planing about buying used graphics card, and doing research for reflowing if that graphics card goes wrong. Great video! Thanks for sharing.

[@rune.theocracy]

I only found your channel now and I must say I am learning alot already, these are very useful.

[@matiasspesot7884]

Taking note, thanks for the tip!

[@yuanho2883]

Thank you. A lot of important information in this video. Thanks for sharing.

[@NikTelio]

Thanks, when i started experimenting with reballing i destroyed many chips and boards because of moisture and i did not know why this was happening, i hope this video helps others to avoid this problem

[@arunsoni9342]

I very impressed to your video it's very knowledgeable I ask a question how i determine or diagnose PCB moisture available in internal layers can you provide some images where moisture seen in internal layers thanks again

[@NikTelio]

you can not, that is why professionals bake even the new bga chips for a few hours before placing them on the motherboard just to avoid the risk of moisture. if i have to reflow a chip i bake the motherboard for a few hours first just to be sure

[@arunsoni9342]

@@NikTelio thanks Very much sir

[@arunsoni9342]

How many hours and temperature bake motherboard and chip and how i identity moisture is parent in motherboard thanks

[@eucharistenjoyer]

Would putting it closer to silica help speed up the process? (I mean, I don't have an oven, but I do have a 3D printer bed which can go beyond 100ºc and stay there for a really long time). I was thinking of keeping some silica packets close to the GPU and put it on top of the 3d print bed and set it to 100ºc for 6 hours. Thx a lot for the videos!

[@NikTelio]

Moisture absorbs the entire PCB not only the GPU and needs to be removed before you start the repair, i do not think a 3d printer can do the job

[@ShuaybAhmed-xs7iz]

Nik, i hope you can still reply, i have a ps4 board and the ps4 has been sitting for 6 years, i don’t have a available oven to bake it in, except for the one we use for food but i won’t use that as fumes may come from the board, can i place the board in front of a heater that is probably 60 degrees celsius or maybe slightly more, and leave it in front of the heater for a week? how many days is my questions and if this is viable method. Thankyou

[@NikTelio]

Hello, it depends on the inviorment that the ps4 was stored, how much moisture it has absorbed like if you had it inside a plastic bag or not, lets say the longer you let it dry it is better

[@ShuaybAhmed-xs7iz]

@@NikTelio it has been inside of a ps4 and in dusty storage space

[@geopappy3425]

My laptop has been sitting for six months or more. My house doesn't have much moisture. Recently it booted but after 10 minutes the gpu dies. Should I follow this procedure or proceed with reflow?

[@NikTelio]

yes you have to remove the moisture first before the reflow, even new bga chips get backed first to remove any moisture before soldering them on the pcb

[@k2050101]

SOME BIG MOTHERBOARD like ps3 or ATX PCB I usually dry for 1 week at 110°c using k type measured.

[@rpsly1873]

Awesome video !!!!

[@leafgreenhd1612]

12 hours at 100degress?

[@NikTelio]

usually 6 hours is enough, at 100c.

[@achazeau]

I just popcorn one R9 280X, saddly now I know why.

[@chrisbader3397]

if my gpu isnt working on my laptop , and i want to reflow it, do i do this before heating it up? it stopped working like 3 days ago. so is this needed or only for older boards?

[@NikTelio]

Hello, you do not need to do this procedure, the pcb starts slowly to absorb moisture and if you wait a few weeks before you do the reflow, then you must remove the moisture first.

[@tarunkumarsoni2937]

how i identified there is moistue in pcb or chip most symptoms

[@shareduwansannosi6234]

Hi Nik, can i know the selector for the heating ? top and bottom ?

[@NikTelio]

Hi, do you mean the ceramic heating plates ?

[@shareduwansannosi6234]

@@NikTelio hi. sorry didnt notice your reply. i mean the oven. whicb selector do you set ? bottom? top? or both ?

[@NikTelio]

@@shareduwansannosi6234 it doesn't really matter, i use both of them

[@axellno1759]

Why doesn't it causes the same effect when you place it in the owen? The water boils at 100C, so all the water that is trapped inside will evaporate as soon as the owen heats up to 100C fairly quick. Or at least would try.. would not be more safe to use lower temperatures like 80C?

[@NikTelio]

Hello, yes the water boils and evaporates at 100C but this happens only under atmospheric pressure, if you rise the pressure then it needs higher temps to evaporate all at once, a balance of pressure, temperature and evaporation of the water is created. that's why if you heat the motherboard up to 200C it can not handle the pressure that rises fast and it pops the chip and board

[@metathanatos1]

can you store it with uncooked rice for a day to remove moisture?

[@NikTelio]

I think it would need many days for the rice to absorb the moisture

[@themaster718]

do i need to heat the gell flux before applying to the graphics card??

[@NikTelio]

No need to heat the flux

[@Intercomp_salam]

Take the board to the oven for 6 up to 12 hours in 100 degrees?

[@NikTelio]

yep

[@arunsoni9342]

I reflow PCB by hot air gun PCB is delaminated one nga cpu chip is not sit properly one sight slightly high not connected solder ball one sight It's can repair how please help sir

[@NikTelio]

i'm afraid that there is no repair for this kind of damage, you need to replace your pcb.

[@salsabilhana9445]

is there anything we can do on that popcorn pcb or ic? do we can still using it even only one or two bubble? or we can say it just broken and helpless? thanks Nik

[@NikTelio]

Hello, to prevent popcorning pcb and ic you must bake them at 100°C for 6-12 hours sometimes even more, to remove the moisture, only then you can start the repair with safety. if you see bubbles on the ic then you must replace the ic, if you see bubbles on the board then 99% the board is broken

[@salsabilhana9445]

i experiencing popcorning ic a lot, i'm still learning to reballing, its always the ic not the board, do you think its because the upper heater to hot maybe? (ceramic heater) than the bottom heater, oo yeah Nik, what is the proper distance between the bottom heater and the upper heater related to the board that we want to reballing

[@NikTelio]

do the heaters have temp meters and if yes what is the temp that the heaters reach during reballing

[@salsabilhana9445]

yes it is, i often watching reballing videos and the temp around 180/210-250 (upper/bottom) here in indonesia with tropical climate. the poin still confusing me is do we need to preheating first (what temp and for how long you suggest) or do we can continue on reballing process with up & bottom heater together like your video (i've had try that once but the result is not satisfying me)

[@NikTelio]

if you follow the time-temp profile then the first 3 minutes is the preheating-soaking phase, it does not matter if you use only the bottom heater or both heaters but you must know that the bottom heater is the main heater the top heater only helps a little, you must reach 150°C pcb temp within 2 minutes and then slowly rise the temp to 170°C for the next 1 minute, this is for the temp to be equal throughout the pcb (soaking phase) this phase is important because it lets the pcb expand uniformly, for now on the top heater does all the extra heating controlled by pid controller to reach 210°C pcb temp, in my rework station the distance between bottom heater (800watts filled ceramic panel ) and pcb is about 3cm, the distance between the top heater (450watts hollow ceramic panel) and pcb is about 2-2,5 cm, my heater temps for the 210°C leaded profile are 210°C pcb temp - 280°C bottom - and top heater about 250°C (this temps are when i reball 2cm*2cm chips) in my rework station both heaters are connected together but the bottom heater works independently, it activates and stops at selected temp 280/300/320/340, the pid controls only the upper heater to follow the profile.

[@k2050101]

because some hugely PCB contains much water vapor than my expectation. Chip is alive, but board was popcorn effect.

[@NikTelio]

Hello, if PCB's are not stored properly they will start slowly to absorb moisture from the air and then corrosion will eventually destroy the boards

[@ttkoh123]

Very useful video. thanks

[@ironnokana6760]

Any other method to dry chip gpu if you dont have oven ?

[@jakegarrett8109]

You could set it in front of anything hot and just let it dry several days. You could use a space heater for example (it just may take a week). You're just trying to dry it out.

[@XYZ-qn7bd]

can i use silika gel ?

[@NikTelio]

i don't think it will work sufficiently

[@XYZ-qn7bd]

Can I use hair dryer?

[@NikTelio]

@@XYZ-qn7bd well, you have to heat it for hours using the hair dryer :/

[@martinezlopez4699]

… did I get right? - You put the Board/PCB/GPU etc. in the oven for 6 to 12 hours at the Temperature of 100° to 110°?

[@NikTelio]

yes 6-12 hours, max 100C

[@uday3]

How to store electronics so that it doesn't capture moisture?

[@NikTelio]

electronics are stored in antistatic bags and inside you need to place one of these moisture absorbing Silica Gel Sachets and then seal it with tape.

[@techvilleph4810]

How to ruin your life in 2 minutes