Big Bad - I: The Basics of Villains in Video Game Design - Extra Credits

Video game villains that don't match the overall tone of the game distract the player and can become more of a laughing stock than a threat. Game designers must understand the two basic categories of bad guys (mechanics villains and narrative villains) and know not only when to use them but how to approach their design.
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Special welcome to Dan Jones, our new artist! You may remember Dan from his fantastic guest art episode, "Free to Play is Currently Broken."
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[@burningHeart09]

adding Tom Nook to the end of that list killed me, but your right. He is a being of pure and unimaginable evil

[@primodialforces5306]

Lol yes 😂

[@kiyopawn]

true

[@ethan_3714]

"A being of true evil... TOM NOOK"

[@Starcather303]

I like how kirby goes against the whole contrast thing. The games are cheerful until the very end, in which you end up fighting beasts that belong in hell.

[@garopropiedades]

2:24 that Tom Nook joke got me

[@smegskull]

Dan, Dann and Danny?

[@adriastarr257]

so sounds like Ed, Edd, and Eddy

[@smegskull]

adriastarr257 that...that was the joke/reference yes.

[@myrlune9475]

Dann is Double N. Orrrr could just call him Double D, as a referential nickname, since it sounds better than Double N anyway.

[@DeadpoolandTgwtgFan]

smegskull You sir are smart.

[@wolfydawolf1296]

4:35 Dan, Danny, and Daniel, make every Dan have a slightly different variation of the name and it will be less confusing but then it wouldn't be as funny, hahah

[@crashmanno4933]

Tom Nook=pure evil and darkness

[@artsyrache]

Gideon Sebesebe yep

[@justindraws9890]

no one, can beat the true horror of *t o m n o o k*

[@DustyMusician]

Everyone laughing at the fact that you said Tom Nook But Tom Nook exemplifies financial issues that plague society so terribly He is terrifying

[@reidschultz8774]

yeah, extra credits I mean no harm but please do more research and play(if more) of the origin game. Tom nook is my favorite video game character ever

[@DustyMusician]

Reid schultz No one ever said you have to like or hate Tom Nook, but no one ever said people had to like the idea of starting off a game in debt, either.

[@presidenthaltmann6244]

Tom Nook is a badass.

[@lute2714]

Interest free mortgage loan with no terms on when you need to repay it? Tom Nook is a saint.

[@DustyMusician]

Lute27 Well when you put it that way...

[@magicalmercy]

Tom Nook, the true villain of every story. You can’t see him but he’s there......

[@sardine2778]

2:26 why is Tom nook there? He’s on a whole other level than those other insignificant “bosses”

[@imveryangryitsnotbutter]

"Hey I'm Dan" "I'm also Dan" "Daaaaaaaaaan"

[@catwif7376]

I'm Very Angry It's Not Butter ho no, it's the person who made the Mardek remixes!

[@fawfulmark2]

This is why Sephiroth is so well remembered. When we are first introduced to him, he is a character that Cloud idolizes, and in the flashback when you team up with him he is immensely powerful compared to yourself, reinforcing the gap in between the two of them. The rest of the game then deals with the tale of Cloud discovering himself, conquering his self doubts for the greater good again, and ultimately challenging and surpassing his fallen idol. This is probably why I have some mild beef with Advent Children nowadays, since they reverted Cloud back to his self loathing self, when at the end of FF7 he was practically one of the happiest people on Earth.

[@TheWolfgangGrimmer]

The movie also has Cloud whine in a way that is more akin to Vincent's depressive pessimism than to Cloud's cold exterior and identity crisis. That and his lines aren't nearly as well-written as they were in the game.

[@TheWolfgangGrimmer]

And interestingly, Kefka is the exact opposite, in that the gameplay illustrates his slow rise in power. The first encounter with him impossible to lose, the second asks a lot more of your thought process, the third is impossible to *win*, and the last one happens on a much larger scale.

[@revenile]

I like how Jirard Kaleel (The Completionist) put it with Cloud in Advent Children. He said it as "However two years have passed since those days, and Cloud doesn't like the person he has become, unable to shake this feeling of self inflicted guilt over the loss of two of the most important people in his life." Or something like that, it's not an exact quote, but it makes sense. Personally I still like the movie (the complete edition), even if somethings aren't explained as well as they could be.

[@Akfamilyhome]

2:25 "Tom Nook" Oh my gosh I can't

[@bazzadwarf]

I may of actually laughed at that more than I should of

[@BlackLusterification]

I had to actually pause the video because I couldn't

[@CornishCreamtea07]

What does that make Redd though?

[@Fafnd]

***** As RL has proven over and over again with Banksters and Wolves of wall street.

[@fassFlash]

Get it? He's... the boss? *JonTron gets a heart attack and dies*

[@spacebuilder4d]

I died at tom nook

[@mellio6730]

Tom nook = Best boss He asks for bells so it isnt free Pure EVIL

[@izackmaniac7922]

2:25 the greatest villain in gaming history

[@Kakerate2]

2:26 Tom Nook. Heartless villian confirmed. my gut feeling is usually right after all.

[@spindash64]

He started to walk towards redemption in New leaf, but he has a ways to go

[@jamesmurphy9577]

I laughed so hard at "Tom Nook" my spine popped

[@guy-eg2yd]

You bring up lightheartedness, and then you show Porky. Lightheartedness. Mother 3. Lightheartedness. MOTHER 3.

[@jerm70]

Drake Butcher Well Earthbound has a lightheartedness set up... for the most part anyway..

[@aaabbb-gd8no]

+xxjermxx70 Mother 3 is NOT lightheated. Really not.

[@jerm70]

Justin Briand Earthbound is not Mother 3. Also you must be digging deep into the comment section.

[@bliffity2692]

+xxjermxx70 Earthbound is the name of the American Mother 3.

[@bliffity2692]

KimiOmega Ah. I see. I guess the two names get thrown around in the same context so much that I mixed them up.

[@CappuccinoGuil]

First Dan: Dan Second Dan: Extra Dan Third Dan: Danny

[@CappuccinoGuil]

Also, I have a question about villains, but let me see if I got this right first: Mechanics villains are there to push the player forward, as a goal, the catalyst for the entire game. They kidnap the princess or point a nuke to your city. You want to defeat them because it's what you have to do. Narrative villains push the plot, they are the ones that confront the player in terms of story. The player wants to defeat them because they rubbed you the wrong way, they touched a nerve, it is the right thing to do (or is it, question mark?) However, what about games that have villains that are both? I feel like I still don't see the point that separates them both. Andrew Ryan I can see, he does absolutely nothing and only serves as a concept, a character, not a final boss. Bowser as well, as he is extremely shallow in terms of character (which is not a bad thing). But what about The Boss in MGS3 or The Walrider in Outlast? Are they narrative villains, mechanics villains or both? Can you even do both types without creating a sloppy mess of a character?

[@ThreeFish]

Dan, DDan, and Danny.

[@ElNeroDiablo]

Dan Alpha, Dan Beta, Dan Gamma. :P

[@Focie]

***** haaaaa! I see what you did there, and I love you for it!

[@vyxxer]

Dan the first Dan squared Dan Cubed.

[@the_kraken6549]

Tom nook... HE STILL WON’T SELL ME THAT FREAKING FISH DOOR THAT HE SAID HE WOULD HAVE IN STOCK FOR LATER BUT THAT I COULDN’T BUY THEN BECAUSE MY HOUSE WAS UNDER RENOVATION!!!

[@the_kraken6549]

Like I thought this guy wanted money.

[@NotLordAsshat]

"If you're making a light-hearted experience you can make you character comical" Precedes to draw the most evil and dark character in Earthbound

[@honestgame9997]

"Villan of pure evil. Tom Nook." Lol

[@SPARKY358]

Сука блят капитализм

[@retroarcadde2128]

2:20 True villain list: The Encahntress Chaos Lavos Maleficent *Tom Nook*

[@stevenleroy2741]

tom nook is the most evil of them all

[@lordjakob7052]

He wants your Soul for money

[@verdragon5591]

The Enchantress, Chaos, Lavos, Maleficent, Tom Nook, sounds about right

[@sirlordcapybara801]

You know, I don't really think Porky is best described as a "light-hearted" villain, all things considered...

[@isaacsmith1653]

I was eating cereal when you said Tom nook and I spit it out xD

[@TheRealDylanator]

>Pure evil >Tom Nook Well I mean you aren't wrong but he's more of a narrative villain.

[@nullnull3438]

"Tom Nook"Well,he gave you a house and you can choose to never pay for it. I never understood why people hate him, but still, it's funny you list him as a villain!

[@UnsightlyThinker]

1:54 IT’S OUR FAVOURITE MORON!!!

[@desertrogue395]

Although, I still feel sorry for him.

[@Handles_arent_a_needed_feature]

2:24 I think we can all agree that mr Rossetti is the true villain

[@cubedmax]

tom nook is hitting different in 2020

[@sirsalty5406]

*TOM NOOK MONEY BAGS INTENSIFY*

[@bundleofjoy948]

Yes Tom Nook is a very evil villan

[@vladm4294]

I knew I was not the only one to discover the corrupt and malicious practices of the vicious Tom Nook.

[@starblazer6433]

Tom nook, a true villain of pure evil

[@oskartheguy2105]

2:24 WE DO NOT SPEAK OF THAT DEMON!!!

[@yaluckyboy]

as a Dungeon Master in training and aspiring author, I find these videos immensely helpful the last time I ran a campaign in D&D, I had no idea how to write this big bad evil guy and kinda went a mix between the two options up there but with these videos I'll be able to make so much more thanks Extra Credit, you are a teacher like I've never had

[@Moved506]

ah yes, tom nook

[@koopaking6148]

oh God I love the jab a tom nook being super evil villin... kinda fits though considering how many loans he makes you go through...

[@commmander64]

He is more of a narrative villain though right?

[@koopaking6148]

Pretty much...

[@AngryNerdBird]

haha Tom Nook

[@XanderVJ]

+Goatmon Probably the most spot-on example in the entire video. lol

[@rk-wv8zo]

Tom Nook is the most darkest of evils, the greed incarnate himself.

[@Zestmistergamer]

I don't get how he's evil, when he has kids to feed, and a market to run

[@thebigbunko9467]

"say your game is a lighthearted fun experience in that case you might make your vilain comical or goofy" Then images of the eldritch horrors known as kirby's final bosses appears in my mind

[@henryfleischer404]

That's what I was thinking of, but before that I thought of president haltmann.

[@iceloveanime]

I think dark samus from the metroid prime series would be an excellent example of a narrative villain. She was a big driving force in prime 2 and 3 being big a badass that really stood out among all the encounters in the game while simultaneously creating an atmosphere designed to entice you to push forward.

[@Focie]

I don't think Dark Samus was a narrative villain at all. Only a Mechanics villain, because she didn't.... do anything.. cut her out from the story and the story would pretty much stay the same

[@gfyusebfsbguidng]

Focie I would say she did a bunch in prime 3, she took over a large portion of the space pirates, sparking a great conflict with the federation that could determine the fate of the entire galaxy, starting phazon corruption on entire planets, as well as corrupting samus and her companions at the beginning, turning previous allies into deranged, dangerous monsters and nearly turning Samus into another Dark Samus as well.

[@gfyusebfsbguidng]

shunkwugga Yeah, I can see what you mean, though I still prefer having a villain that you slowly can get closer to and eventually fight, giving a face to the threat you're going up against.

[@0zeroburn]

I think SAX would be more of a narrative boss. While Dark Samus just existed to be defeated, SAX had an existence. SAX wanted you dead, yes, but it also had more desire to see metroids exterminated to allow the X to proliferate. Then throw in that (spoilers) it could multiply and there were literally dozens of them by the end of the game... that's a intimidating force since SAX just roflstomped you through 90% of the game, forcing you to run or hide at nearly every encounter.

[@Focie]

Timdeuces You might be right. Honestly, I thought the third one was the weakest in the series, and I remember pretty much nothing about the game, though I remember most everything from prime and prime 2.

[@LimeGreenTeknii]

Extra Credits should make their own game. It would probably be perfect in almost every way!

[@RusticKey]

With all the characters named Dan.

[@tvsonicserbia5140]

Well James,the guy who writes extra credits does make games!

[@ethanalvi2187]

I wonder if you can have a villain that's both mechanical AND narrative

[@NerdiestAlpaca]

I'm sure that's possible

[@orionthewildhunt9173]

yes big boss and narratave

[@StilvurBee]

"A villian of pure evil, like...The enchantress, Chaos, Blobos(?), Maleficent, Tom Nook."

[@Stirdix]

"Lavos" (Chrono Trigger)

[@saprein1646]

*_T O M N O O K I S S O E V I L_*

[@oppaisuki_]

2:24 tom nook lol

[@halfsasquatch]

Thinking about the antagonist in our last tabletop game and how I actually couldn't come up with a good counter argument to their final monolague beyond yelling about free will as axiom. Because at it's core our conflict was mostly over methodology than end goals. They weren't evil, just an otherwise good person who's need for control led them to do evil things....

[@m0ncherii]

tom nook is the true villian behind every evil thing

[@ponsyvi]

How about Kirby a cute lighthearted game with bosses that are literally demon spawns

[@masonsilvers6789]

Him: Tom nook Me: wat I play animal crossing and... wat. *laughs*

[@Enigamis]

We will miss you leels! You did a great job on the series and we can't wait to see you around again.

[@ak7945gr]

NO WAY YOU JUST DID THIS TO ME!!! 5 Minutes are not enough!! I was enjoying this video waaayyy too much as that it may end!

[@willhuey4462]

there are some stories where the villain will have no backstory that he just shows up one day and nobody knows where he came from.

[@gyrich]

4 years after its inception, I'm seeing this vid for the first time and loling at the play on words at 2:57. Love EC.

[@skipperkippz4564]

2:17 the most evil of all... Tom Nook

[@henryt3301]

He lost the kids in the divorce.

[@MythicGirl2210]

TOM NOOK!! 😂😂😭

[@MythicGirl2210]

TOM NOOK!!! 😂😂😂 Aah, I'm dead!

[@dragonick2947]

You can make the villain of a sweet and toony game the devil incarnate because that gives an excellent contrast to an entirely toony game. Also, you could make them try to suck up all the fun and lightheartedness of their world. Dr. Robotnik is also a much better name than Dr. Eggman.

[@XLatMaths]

Western names do tend to be so.

[@Winrarnt]

You mean kirby?

[@frederickfugglesworth9877]

Another great episode of Extra Dans.

[@muleFUEL1]

Lovin the new art! And the new Dan XD

[@RickJaeger]

I wonder if Frank Fontaine from BioShock will be mentioned/featured in the next part. He was the first thing that came to my mind when he mentioned substituting mechanics villains for narrative ones, and he seems like a prime example of that.

[@abluepenguin7039]

damn you tom nook... it took so long to buy those house upgrades

[@evilreiko]

This a excellent video, super excited for the next video :D I wish ExtraCredits make a design-club video about this same topic :D

[@soulzero22]

I can't say how much I admire you guys enough.

[@darkscarlet1012]

Who else cracked up at "Tom Nook"

[@chaincat33]

"Avatar of pure Evil" "Tom Nook" Good to know you guys play Debt Simulator AKA Animal Crossing

[@eeeeeehhhhhhhh]

I lost it for a good ten seconds at "Tom nook"

[@iamcyancat7924]

TOM NOOK IS THE VILLAN? Yeah true

[@dred4dead551]

IAmCyanCat he steels ur monie he is a very bad

[@thescorch1163]

have you never played the game

[@Overhazard]

Heh, anyone familiar with Sean Malstrom? (He is best known for his "Birdmen" essay where he predicted the Wii to beat the PS3 and Xbox 360 before any of them came out.) From what I understand about him, he'd rather video games do away with narrative villains completely. (He believes that games are at their most enjoyable and commercially successful if there is as little plot as possible, just enough to understand what you're supposed to do.) That being said, he has never written any material about his tastes and preferences in more traditional storytelling media except his disillusionment at the later seasons of Battlestar Galactica and Star Trek from Deep Space Nine and onwards (he wanted their core mysteries to remain unexplained). He also seems to be a fan of horror films whose antagonists lurk in the shadows, and you never learn who they are, their goals, the source of their powers, and in some cases, their abilities. He wrote an essay about the Mega Man Robot Masters, however, and based on what I get, his favorite type of villain is the imposing, threatening-looking thing whom you don't meet until the end and whose abilities you don't know until it happens. For this same reason, Dr. Wily seems to be his favorite video game villain, as while his appearance is the same, he always has a different machine to fight Mega Man with in every game, and each machine and what they do is totally unknown until the last moments of each game. I suppose this means that he is a fan of anticipation and buildup and generally doesn't like payoff nearly as much.

[@Goldmight]

i should get a job at extra credits so that way we fan have 4 dans in this series.

[@MechaHobo]

So I really hope that you'll also do a part III, combining the two. Because that is where most villains fall apart.

[@Zabyatta]

The Tom Nook remark almost killed me! xD Anyways, awesome show as always, can' wait to hear more about the narrative villain. Also welcome Dan 3! :D

[@alexandreyu6165]

They made Tom Nook jokes, 6 years ago ILOVEU

[@Steelwing125]

"you might want to make a lighthearted game have a comical villan" HAVE YOU EVER PLAYED ANY OTHER KIRBY GAME THAN HE FIRST ONE?!

[@dalemonshateu6948]

"Tom Nook"

[@TW-qw5zr]

"Tom Nook." I couldn't help laughing when I heard this. Anyone mind giving me some context here?

[@benjaminphilippe2810]

Sounds like crabs from Sponge Bob

[@opheliahvasshovd3160]

Zoomninja 3000 he used to be evil in old games, he does work the same but yes he was

[@neemis7796]

T O M N O O K

[@Umbachhia]

1:53 Inaccurate, Wheatley never shuts up (hehehhehehe)

[@Katana314]

The "use all your abilities" parts is a very important part of helping leave people with a positive impression of the whole game. My friend just recently mentioned to me that when Infamous: Second Son had three main ability types, he was actually really disappointed to only use 2 of the 3 on the final boss. In contrast, Okami gave you 13 celestial brush gods; and Amaterasu has one ability herself. While not all of them are required, just about EVERY one of them can be put to some utility while fighting the game's final big bad. The game definitely left a positive impression from that.

[@chaos98GTVS]

Thx for especially this topic. I learned so much, i feel i'm closer to my goal ^^

[@Swampert00260]

Tom Nook?!? What's so evil about a 0% interest rate?

[@charlotte1924]

Wait, there's another Dan Jones? I have to say I'm not surprised!

[@MiningwithPudding]

WOO HOO!!! NEW EPISODE!!!

[@112steinway]

Thank you Ms. Scaldaferri, your work is wonderful and (at least for this rabid fan of the show) you will be missed.

[@ZerqTM]

I think reversing everything and playing as the villain makes for a better narrative. Villain originally refers to any non-chivalrous individual (everyone not knighted or otherwise ennobled) this later became a slur as it started referring to non-chivalrous behavior... the actual word draws from the same root word as villager does and had similar meanings... so i would make the villain the hero and make him a bit of a class hero... fighting wealthy super heroes in society where the rich oppress the poor. the perfect example of this would be the "D-list super villain" series. (which would make a awesome game btw)

[@GameCyborgCh]

2:24 Tom Noo...... wait WHAT

[@AltairDhauglu]

Can't wait for the next chapter!

[@SmileyGirlArtist]

Aww I wish I had known that you guys needed another artist! I would've volunteered in a heartbeat! (though I'm not sure that I could compare to any of the previous or current artists)

[@nickrl113]

"Intense gameplay scenario" *Picture of a tent* wait, what- wait. Intense. *IN* *TENTS*

[@alkalinepineapples733]

I straight up lost it at "tom nook"

[@MrYopeople21]

Cant wait to hear more (:

[@giodandosu]

dan the return!!!!

[@FreyjaTheWarrior]

Lol, this reminds me of my high school. There were three Jusins. Including myself. And two of us had the same initials.

[@FreyjaTheWarrior]

Justins rather.

[@scrappydrake4683]

When I was a kid I went to a summer camp that had another Adam B (my name). Since I had red hair and he had brown, I was known as Adam Tomatohead while he was known as Adam Potatohead.

[@fast1nakus]

I had 4 Viktor's and 3 Alexander's in my class -_-

[@Raddishist]

Having a unique name, Pro: Nobody else has your name Con: Can't find name on keychains

[@SanDiego_Railfan]

I totally agree about Tom nook

[@MrServantRider]

Haha! Looking forward to next week because I'm making an RPG and a narrative villain is what I'm working on. This'll be fun comparing notes because I've been putting a LOT of work into this game's plot.

[@JOHNNYLAW514]

Art looks so good this episode.