Exit Points - Putting Down the Game - Extra Credits

Part of treating players with respect is respecting the time they have to play your game. Exit points make sure your game offers players plenty of opportunities to put down the controller when they feel they have reached a good spot to stop. Gentle messages reminding them how much time they've played or offering accomplishments like new levels or zones can provide exit points. On the flip side, however, developers sometimes create unintended exit points with frustrating design choices.
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[@RagnarRoxShow]

I think the biggest issue here is that the majority of designers try to design games that a player never, ever quits. Which is impossible and counter-productive at the same time. Great long episode with lots of valuable examples.

[@000Gua000]

RagnarRox Nice to see a familiar face :)

[@megaburritozero]

RagnarRox Game - Don't forget to take breaks! Me - I just started the game :|

[@MrLemonGrahb]

RagnarRox I missed such long and detailed GD episodes :D It's fun because i often pause the videos to takes notes for my project, and this time, maybe because i already thougth about this (without naming it "exit points" though) i took notes on something else! Actually about "flipping" points in my game, when you get the opportunity to quit a serie of actions towards an other one. #ExtraCredits you are awesome!

[@MrLemonGrahb]

CaitSeith haha ^^

[@RNS_Aurelius]

I think the biggest reason it doesn't work is because a lot of games take the mmo approach forcing you take go down a long progression (leveling) to only unlock new progression (reputation in most cases) to get a reward and people start to burn out far before they reach the reward leaving only the most loyal players and making players who pick up the game later feeling a bit demoralized by the long grind ahead to even have a chance of competing. The most recent game I played that suffered from this is destiny which also has a severe lack of content and half its content is locked behind a paywall

[@LimeGreenTeknii]

Extra Credits One thing about telling the gamer to take a break though, I know that Nintendo always has these "Consider taking a break!" screens in their new games, and people always laugh at them. They kind of make sense in Wii Sports, where it kind of seems like they're your personal trainer telling you not to pull a muscle or something, but it's really odd playing The Legend of Zelda when an NPC tells you to take a break.

[@Ularg7070]

LimeGreenTeknii Nintendo's "Consider a break, perhaps!" screens are actually kind of indearing to me, and I always scoff at those sort of messages. I may be up for just powering on through but the idea that they're somewhat trying to influence healthy gaming habits in children is kind of a wonderful thing to realize.

[@gavi888]

LimeGreenTeknii Interestingly, in Zelda the only time it told you to get a life was when you're saving, and since that's kind of an out of game thing I guess it's more acceptable to slip in a warning then.

[@hikari_no_yume]

LimeGreenTeknii People laugh at those screens, but they do at least make you think, and if you've been playing for a while and haven't realised it, that's good.

[@Romanticoutlaw]

I absolutely hate those. I often play even longer just because I don't want to be bossed around by a video game. Don't get me wrong, I get where they're coming from, but I know my own limits.

[@spriddlez]

RebelWinterwolf Exactly. I think it is the way they say it... like they implying your choice is a bad one. If they said "You still feeling good or do you want to try something new?" or something like that it might be less grating.

[@planefan082]

I knew a basic F2P mobile game, Pocket Planes. I played for hours one day until I noticed the sun was setting in-game (it reflects real time). That was one of the most subtle but effective reminders to stop I have ever seen in a game.

[@howlingarmadillo]

Here's a good example: The World Ends With You. It gave you actual points whenever you left the game! This meant whenever you'd return to the game you'd be rewarded based on how much time you left it off. And these points were useful because they'd help you unlock new attacks you could never get otherwise. They also designed it so that the points you got per day degraded over time, until after a week you'd only get around 10 points per day, which encouraged you to go back. Just really clever all around.

[@leshrac369]

agentrob8 Its bonuses cap out at a few days. And it was an insanely good game, so it was honestly sometimes hard to put it down for a day. It basically encouraged playing for 4-5 hours a day rather than playing obsessively.

[@patyos2]

Riley Crowder Didnt bravely default did something similar with sleep points

[@leshrac369]

It might have. I have heard quite a bit about BD, but I never played it.

[@jumahn]

agentrob8 Oh, that's adorable. You're adorable!

[@RedCornix]

agentrob8 you could also just move the clock ahead on the original ds, and quick level those items. It was a nice work around since mandatory down time kind of blew.

[@lucianocastrogiovanni2879]

From my experience as a player and watching other players, you do NOT want to put in anything remotely similar to saying "Yo, you've been playing too long, wanna stop and take a break?" That NEVER leaves the player satisfied enough to quit, and usually gets them to begrudge that message, makes them feel patronized. The *good* way of doing it, that I hadn't thought of but was mentioned here, is adding a local time clock right in your face. It's a more subtle way of telling you how much you played and makes the player choose seemingly on their own accord that they want to go to sleep or just rest a bit. It takes away all the patronizing, and it fixes a play session that was caught on an "detached from real time" situation where the player literally hasn't checked the clock for too long and didn't realize it hadn't been 2 hours, it had been 7. Which is something that happens to me A LOT, and would be thankful to be reminded of without being explicitly told like I explained.

[@andrewboyacigiller8985]

As someone who is currently playing a game at 2:40 am, the timing for this video to show up was perfect.

[@unprankable666]

The universe is giving you a sign.

[@unprankable666]

The universe is giving you a sign

[@tims3nchant3dplac39]

Worst unintentional exit point in my opinion? Game breaking bug/crash. Worthy of mention because it's so common, I often just stop playing a game for the day (at least) if it freezes up or kicks me to desktop.

[@movezig5]

If you play Earthbound long enough for a single play session, your character's dad will give you a call to let you know you've been at it a while, and you might want to take a rest. He even offers to save your game, if I recall correctly, even if you're nowhere near a save point.

[@vincentauronward347]

Is no one going to point out how funny the "run run run" part was? It was the first time I've openly laughed at an extra credits video, and skipped back to watch it again. I love it.

[@Tarik360]

I would incorporate a dialogue based exit point if it was a story driven RPG, where a quest giver mentions in the dialogue that the player "must be tired from all those chores" and invites the player character to tea or something similar. Then it skips to a cutscene which can be skipable by hitting any button but escape/start which opens up the game menu which gives tired players a place to stop and save and energetic players to skip it.

[@chillinchum]

+Tarik360 If you think about there, there's a lot of rpgs that do in fact do exactly that! But hey, thanks for bringing that idea to my attention!

[@akuyangterbaik]

Tarik360 Nice

[@veloc.raptor9136]

To me Stardew Valley had the best exit point. The game saved after you went to bed. After each day i would consider the day efficient and ask myself "am i up for one more day or should i also call it for today" :)

[@eylore3934]

I personally think the long death from bloodborne is basically telling you to sit there and think "Ok take a breath, how exactly did you just die?" or at least thats how I treat it.

[@AschTB]

nope, all load times

[@Spenfen]

In Castlevania: Symphony of the Night, it is *LITERALLY* faster to reset the console when you die then to watch the game over screen. I'm not joking. It's by FAR the game's biggest flaw.

[@HalNordmann]

I like how the Anno game series informs you that you have been playing for a long time. Like ADAM in 2205: "Long playtime detected. Pause recommended." after you play for 2 hours.

[@XerxesTexasToast]

I just had a cute idea where a game would show you how many hours and minutes your session has lasted, plus a little caption. At 1 to 3 hours, it would say something like "Solid session, bruh"; 4 to 6 "Damn, you're hardcore"; 7 to 12 "You... you okay buddy?"; and over 24 "pls stahp/Go to bed, son". Or game-appropriate versions of those.

[@user-bf5sc8pn8x]

XerxesTexasToast the Anno games do something like that, it works really well actually

[@Adam-cq2yo]

Sounds perfect. But the final message should be at 12 hours.

[@Overhazard]

XerxesTexasToast Heh, that reminds me of how Super Smash Bros. Melee has a message telling you to go outside when the amount of total hours played has reached a certain amount. I forget how much it is, but it's an amount no normal person would ever reach, like 250,000 hours or something. (I think if you left the game on continuously ever since it came out, you wouldn't manually reach that amount until 2029.)

[@Natrone011]

XerxesTexasToast That's actually an excellent idea. I love that.

[@drasleona6216]

Natrone011 i cant name you the game, but i'm fairly sure Guild Wars has had that kind of thing, not to mention every hour it would remind you that you've played for X hours maybe its time for a break. Same with Lineage 2. I'm definately sure there has been a game that had ''you've played for X hours, time to take a break'' ''you've played for X hours, you should seriously consider stepping away''

[@OddJaguar15]

Despite the point about death. I feel like beteshda games are an exception, i want to see my death longer, because seeing myself fly into orbit, spaz on the ground, or just become a paste as we follow my eyeball across the mohave is funny.

[@AshtonSnapp]

I honestly have to agree with you.

[@daniellewilson8527]

This description made me laugh

[@frknspacewizardbrett6044]

One of my favorite uses of save points being an exit point is when quicksave is available. Suddenly, you can end the game at any time and come back, but if you die you go back to where you last *proper* saved. This can allow a 5 hour dungeon be broken up into smaller chunks, whilst still retaining the tension of having last saved hours ago and the feeling that dying would be catastrophic. =D

[@krevetka9744]

So you're talking about Stronghold scribe's lines: "What about a snack, my liege?" "My lord, you have not slept for days" "It's very late sire, aren't you tired?" Those things really do show that dev team consider you as a human. That's beautiful. P.S. There are messages about late time or x-mas depending on your pc time.

[@trent3836]

Showing the local time is a great idea. Far too many times, I minimize to look at the clock, and... Welp.

[@AmandaDavis6130]

Dan being meat boy is glorious

[@gamernick1533]

My favourite example of something that might be called an exit point is from Dungeon Keeper "It is the witching hour. All curses are half price." (Between midnight and 1am) Many nights that was my 'oh crap, school/work in the morning' moment. Chuckle and off to bed.

[@mxsdrago]

*I T ' S L A T E O' C L O C K* If my game said that, Well I don't know what I'd do but it would be funny.

[@Nesetroll]

Animal Crossing New Leaf did this pretty well. It's meant to be played in small bursts just doing a few minor tasks each day, so after playing for an hour, people start to ask if you need a break. I was a latecomer to the 3DS, so I ignored these warnings, and used and entire battery life grinding some rare furniture on a special event. Then I grinded fish and shells the next day to pay off my loans. Then I started playing for hours on end while listening to podcasts. Now, I'm burnt out, haven't touched it for a month or so, resulting in fewer total play hours over time than I got in those huge sessions. If only I'd listened to that giant creepy teddy bear telling me to take a break....

[@jeromkiller]

i really like it when a game shows the local time durring gameplay, it makes it so much easier to keep track of hor long you are playing. and you run into that akward moment of "oh i was going to play untill 1am... its 5am now..."

[@joemcbo6259]

jeromkiller thats why I have a watch

[@notequalto5179]

I feel being comfortable with players leaving the game and respecting their time will encourage players to come back and that they can play whenever they want.

[@teigantheisen2549]

No wonder that guy died, he was trying to play Dark Souls with an NES controller!

[@talongreenlee7704]

I think that showing the current time and the amount of time played in the play session on the loading screen would be a great way to do this.

[@awesomemantroll1088]

Warframe does a good job at this. Various mission types have different play lengths, so it asks, "Tell me, how long do you want to play for?" My schedule's free times have various lengths, so this was a big help.

[@daniilpashuk6017]

I lile the Nintendo Ds exit points: just close the system for the night at any time you want and resume from this point the next morning without delay by openning it again

[@masonsilvers6789]

Ya. I aggree

[@masonsilvers6789]

Also, their battery power take a long time to get to 0 percent when closed, mine lasted for weeks, maby even months. AND WAS STILL AT GREEN!

[@ilankaplan2428]

I think some of the best exit points are when you finish something, and get a bunch of things to do all at once immediately following. Not in an overwhelming way where I lose interest, but where I think "I'll tackle this big chunk later."

[@aaronbrimfrost]

"... make one objective seamlessly flow into the next. We've all had that player experience. You turn in a quest and that NPC gives you another one." Me, remembering the horror of: Hey, thanks but another settlement needs your help, here I'll mark it on your map.

[@finethenruz]

Quest? I’m already on a quest!

[@connorallen8434]

It takes a godly amount of self control to put the game down when your mom says to

[@nullnull3438]

EC, I have spent over an hour binge watching your videos. There is no exit point here!

[@vincenturquhart1370]

the most important thing is to ensure exit points occur after a moment of satisfaction or achievment (e.g winning a match or completing a quest) rather than a moment of frustration or disappointment (e.g dying or losing a match) this gives player a better memory of the game, meaning the are more likly to play agin the next day

[@Natureslayer]

The worst recent game I played with really bad exit points was Bioshock: Infinite. Only autosaves at random times/areas, no save on your own, so if I wanted to quit, I'd have to wander around a ton. My biggest (of many) gripe about that game.

[@MrTouchFish]

Drei Sands Ew, that's archaic. Was going to start this one next, but that sounds far too irritating.

[@Catalistic]

Drei Sands I know right? Why does game nowadays still rarely put a quicksave feature?

[@23madberty]

That's what I thought right when the video started! I've been playing some of Infinite and had to keep going until the auto save icon came on.

[@Stendal_]

TheRezro Or because save points are kind of counter intuitive to the sense of panic and despair that is associated with Bioshock games? "I know you're in a city where every single person wants to kill you, but someone thought it'd be nice to leave their safehouse open so anyone could rest if they needed." Your comparison also doesn't make sense because game devs have been putting quick saves on games since the NES and SNES era. Ocarina of Time let you save whenever you want, Majora's Mask had plenty of quick save points you could use to not have to restart the flow of time, Final Fantasy has had saving since its first incarnation, etc. I'm not defending Bioshock Infinite, but placing a blanket blame on console developers is an irrational thing to do.

[@ilexyellowdog]

TheRezro Sometimes an inability to save can be a good thing (so long as it is done in a balanced manner, don't want the game to get too frustrating after all). Take a stealth game for instance, now imagine you can quicksave whenever you want and quickload your latest save almost instantly. You'll probably end up saving constantly and if you get spotted then you will just reload your save rather than stick it out and potentially end up with a great little story of how you "escaped from the guards" or whatever. This sort of thing is limited by genre and by game but I'm just saying quicksaving isn't always a good thing (there's a reason games like Xcom: Enemy Unknown include stuff like Ironman mode).

[@Bikutolu]

Dungeon keeper 2 had some fun comments on this if it detected you where playing very late at night. The narrator would say lines starting with lines like "Surely even Dungeon Keepers must retire to a lair of some description..." too "Your nocturnal perseverance has earned you a hidden gaming tip: GO TO BED!"

[@Iancoves]

"You know that downy-soft item of furniture in the next room? It has the power to cure fatigue and restore vitality."

[@EBlade-rc2ry]

In Final Fantasy XIV: "sanctuaries" are npc settlements where the player can safely log out and receive rested experience to gain more experience quickly when they return. Most MMO players just binge mobs and dungeons but for a casual the rested experience can seem like a safe exit point.

[@audieliem4843]

so the Civilization games don't include exit points aside from the end of a game

[@csuarezmtz]

I dunno how they get with it. Every "End of Turn" should be an exit point... but it's sooooo addictive :)

[@eideticex]

I have only once seen a good implementation of this. Was a jRPG that had a two part easter egg. You had to do just two things to trigger it. 1) Don't stay at any Inns, even one the game gave the impression was required (it wasn't). 2) Don't turn off the console up until a major turning point in the story roughly 8 hours in. Should you do that you would be treated to a cutscene from each of your party members lamenting their lack of sleep and missing out on hot meals/snacks. You also miss out on a super powerful skill in the game by missing the first trigger to start the skill line since it triggered from a specific Inn that was entirely optional but likely for you to stay. It was the first time in a game where the characters convinced me to take a break. Didn't even matter that I was already taking breaks to get up and walk around, cook dinner and do chores around the house; those breaks I left the game paused but at that point I took the hint instead of playing for a couple more hours, saved my game and shut off the console. Still haven't remembered which game it was but I replay old games and each time I do I'm repeating those steps trying to figure out which game it was.

[@DoctorX17]

I remember playing Metroid Prime on the GameCube and getting to a point where I was far from the last save and still kinda far from the next, but was too tired to continue... So since I couldn't easily save, I just left my GameCube on for a week until I was able to get back to the game

[@grenien4109]

I do the same thing with Stardew Valley on my computer.

[@dropbearstudio7782]

5:05 this is kinda obvious but another good example is a high scores and personal records, maybe even having your friend’s scores to have a sense of competition between players so they strive to beat each other :)

[@michealdrake3421]

Your last point about noting time reminded me of something amusing about War for the Overworld. When you first open the game, the narrator greets you on the title screen. But if you, like me, often play late at night or in the very early morning (because I work night shift and am nocturnal) then instead of "good morning, Underlord." or "welcome back, Underlord," the narrator says "Go to bed!" or "Aren't you tired?" or "It's getting late, Underlord."

[@Bellonging]

Yes it should be after a length of time, not at a time.

[@ThatFanBoyGuy]

That's why I am a fan of autosave points or the option to save at anytime. It allows me to exit at any point and continue on with life, either with life's needs or life's wants. The only time I justify limited save points is with survival horror because the limited save points capture the survival horror essence.

[@tarniabook3076]

In Animal Crossing (at least New Leaf) if you play a lot your neighbors will tell you you look tired and that you should go to rest.

[@mirandahall4079]

Another exit point I encountered the other day is this: the internet in my house going down. After playing for six hours straight.

[@notequalto5179]

All of these videos are gold. So helpful for talking points in my dev team.

[@garrettord3304]

This video reminded me of my favorite loading screen message: "Remember while your characters may not need to eat, you do!"

[@penguincommander169]

on the games that tell you the time i had one of those moments where i didn't pay attention to either clock and during a long loading screen i looked at the clock and said and i quote "SHIT, i've been playing since 10 AM and it's 9 AM

[@puppetplayz2455]

Everyone: go to sleep Me on Friday nights: oh boy time to play til 2am

[@Sapheiorus]

1:50 I laughed super hard.

[@joisama]

Sapheiorus Perfect reference! lol. Hopefully they can fix that.

[@rasclausen]

Sapheiorus i saw it coming, but i was still laughing my ass offf

[@Sapheiorus]

Rasmus Clausen I was thinking fondly of what it would be like if they were to put that screen as the example, and the moment after I thought that it happened. It's the entire reason I laughed.

[@VonDelacroix]

Sapheiorus I haven't played bloodborne, no ps4, but dark souls did that linger on you dieing thing on purpose, so you can see how unimportant you are in the game world. Loading times were probably better then bloodborne, but still.

[@sirfartalot4624]

Sapheiorus by that you mean you blew the air out of your nose harder than usual.

[@thewaterleaf7929]

who else kept replaying the super meat boy part? also I liked the starbound sort of way you showed the part about quests...y'know the exclamation mark for a new quest and question mark for the ones you have to claim your rewards from...

[@awesomemantroll1088]

Many mobile games sadly have no exit points. I played Age of Empires for hours, thinking, "Is there something to end with?" I was so used to exit points in other games that silly me just kept playing. Later, I watched this video and the skinner box video, and immediately deleted the game. Maybe I have a low resistance to addiction, sure, but it surely, sadly, was not all on me.

[@galaksen1699]

One of my favorite features of the Switch is that you can put it in sleep mode to come back to later. I wish other consoles did that.

[@FNecro]

Mister Swoof as far as I know, the Xbox doesn't have this feature. But in a single player game you can on the ps4. Like for example I could put my ps4 into rest mode while player final fantasy xv and I could come back right to where I was.

[@justinreyno5047]

Yeah I love that about the ps4, although you’ll prolly have to reconnect to online it’s still pretty neat.

[@joemcbo6259]

I put the games down when I feel I've done all I wanted too. It feels nice knowing I put it down when I was done but it doesn't help my sleep schedule which is why temporary exit points are my favorite but extremely hard to make

[@MaybeNotARobot]

I feel Nintendo does this quite well, especially in Animal Crossing. There's not any _specific_ exit point, with it pretty much being 'do what you want to do and leave.' Of course, even if you do leave for a long time, there's not much punishment.

[@TheSniperMAJOR]

There is a huge problem with checkpoints in very many games with cutscenes and a good story: The checkpoint is after the cutscene. If I put the game down I have no real option to review that cutscene to get into the story and feel of the game again (unless I want to play a chapter/older save again, and that takes far too long). It would be nice, if a game would recognize "Oh, he quit just seconds after a cutscene.... give him the option to view it again, if he starts again). Its like reading a novel an having to put the book down after two sentences - when you pick it back up, you likely read the chapter from the start and not a paragraph into it.

[@renzoherreragiuria6781]

4:12 broke my heart

[@mariokart6309]

just ooone more episode of extra credits....

[@fluvilias0446]

A good example of this is in a link between worlds, after a little while if you save the game will send you a small message saying “you’ve been taking a while, why not take a break? *pause* you can stop your game from the pause menu. This reminds them of a break by bringing them back to the real world (the game is really good at immersion with the songs and sound effects)

[@TotallyToonsTV]

0:45 - awwwww those cute game cases. Such adorable little characters

[@OttoMaticInc]

Personally, I think The Legend of Zelda does this exceptionally well. Everytime you have finished something, you naturally save your progress and instantaneously afterwards the game asks whether you'd like to keep playing. In my opinion, the phrasing of that question is very important: By asking (exactly) "Keep playing?" instead of something like "Quit the game?", the game makes you feel like you deserve a break now since you have made a big step forward in terms of game progression.

[@weaponizedpizza8825]

showing the local time whenever I died would be amazing, I always fail to notice the fact that it's 3 am and I have to ask what year it is when I stop playing.

[@Bamboo_bazooka]

i think everyone fails to notice the time

[@weaponizedpizza8825]

but the games are in fullscreen.

[@dimanarinull9122]

I needed to do it whenever I woke up at some point... side effects of having retrograde amnesia years ago, like in an elder scrolls game, you start life at a certain age and you need to learn some stuff though some you already know as they are "talents" and "abilities" more then things to memorize.

[@waterruner5478]

Just one more extra credits video

[@TycoonTitian01]

One game I play, called Satisfactory, has a in game message thing that gives cheeky messages at certain hour intervals about how long I’ve been on

[@KnakuanaRka]

2:50 Something like Mario and Luigi: Dream Team, which lets you save anywhere, but still has save blocks as reminders?

[@thestav]

I'm watching this because I just spent 4 hours completing The War Within quest in Warframe when I just wanted to sleep

[@TheFriendlyFoxyChannel]

I had an exit point from a paywall while trying out Rune Scape. I got past the first part of the story and then started exploring, but I kept coming across paywall after paywall and eventually got annoyed with the whole thing and stopped playing, bearing in mind this was after about 2 play sessions.

[@namename2186]

The beautiful thing about rune Scape however is that you can cleverly grind enough gold in about a week to simply buy membership with in game currency and keep that membership going with in game currency

[@arklestudios]

I liked how one of the loading screen messages on Baldur's Gate 2 handled it. "While your character doesn't need to eat, you do. Remember to take take breaks for meals. We don't want to lose any dedicated players."

[@blueberrymuffin4648]

honestly, I really dislike it when quests lead in to other quests. It feels like the game is forcing me to keep playing while at the same time diminishing my accomplishments. Like, I just did that big thing! You're not even going to thank me before pushing me into the next big thing?

[@Vonias]

Yea, although usually as long as there's some kind of quest log so that I'll know what to do next time I log on, i'm no less likely to log off after finishing a particularly long part of a quest, as apposed to actually finishing one.

[@pixyireproductions]

a lot of people like Mystic Messenger but that game runs similarly to a Skinner Box. Everything is time triggered and you can shoot yourself in the foot if you miss an event. I had to drop it because it was constantly conflicting with school hours and there was a day where I couldn't get on my phone at all due to a film project and I basically died more or less because I missed all of the events and couldn't reverse it.

[@MatthewCampbell765]

One caveat though, when reminding players to take a break, is that you start to "sound like their parents" if you do it too much. For example, imagine playing an adventure game where, every 30 minutes, you're asked to take a break. That'd get annoying fast. Nintendo games, for example, often fall into that trap.

[@paulovictorsilvaferreira7824]

If a game normally said the time on the loading screen and then really did say "It's late o' clock" after it's past like, 1AM that would help me immensely.

[@Merennulli]

This is something I have a huge issue with in some games. I mentioned in a previous comment that the games I've played that fit the "massive multiplayer online" constraints, even if they aren't really lumped in with MMOs, are Neopets and Pokemon GO. Neopets had no exit point management whatsoever, just mindless grind tasks that seemed like their expectation was that a huge pile of things that had to be done on a schedule would somehow self-balance instead of the reality that people doing them would see it as an all-or-none. This, coupled with events that just added another pile of grind was why I quit. Their "you can just not do the tedious things and not get the rewards that make up the baseline of the in-game economy" philosophy was grinding me down rather than enriching the gameplay. Pokemon GO also has a lack of exit points. I've made my own, but with everything left to do behind what you might call a "flywall" (ie, you have to fly to another continent...), I keep hitting points of either having to be creative in coming up with personal goals that are viable and not problematic...or having nothing to do. They overcompensated in 2018 on this with an insane near-constant event strategy that was leveraging FOMO but allowing for no exit points, and it wasn't until the pandemic that they accidentally backed off to a more reasonable level where we could at least create our own exit points that weren't so frustrating.

[@markfurlong9542]

staying-up to watch a video on exit points when I should be going to bed...

[@DragoonWarrior790]

Showing local time during a loading screen, and maybe even your current play time for that session is a simple yet awesome idea. It would save me from having to minimize the game to check the time so often.

[@leinadlink]

5:35 NO! That's mobile suckiness. The other ideas are cool though.

[@leinadlink]

Adam Lmao And that's just a THEORY.... A game THEORY!!! And that's why it sucks.

[@AnstonMusic]

Adam Lmao Think it this way: losing ones are in the greatest need of new experience to become better to be able to win. Now you are restricting those ones from playing while the elite get better all the time because their sessions aren't restrained.

[@CreationCatalyst]

It's just the nature of competitive games that if you lose a lot it isn't fun and that if you're new to such a game that you're going to lose more often than not right away to people who are better at the game than you. The trick is to make the game's learning curve such that people can get enough experience to become adept enough at the game to be capable of not losing all the time, before they tire of just losing a bunch of games.

[@AnstonMusic]

Adam Lmao Yeah, implementation has always great implications.

[@jackcheat6340]

Andy Flow [Music Producer] I think the intent it to prevent the downward spiral of loose streak -> frustration -> more losses -> more frustration. Often times, when I've lost a couple of matches, I find the best way to get back on my A game is to stop for a while. Most other people don't realize this and will simply continue playing for that "just 1 win" when their negative mindset will only serve to give them more losses. Especially in competitive mulitplayer games where your frustration can affect other people which may then in turn make them frustrated and setting them up for that downwards spiral too. That said, I'm not sure such a mechanic will be implemented well. 9/10 the developer trying to do so will likely fail either accidentally or intentionally use it for player-unfriendly monetization. On the other hand, anything can be miss used. (DLC is not inherently evil and yet it has been abused so much that it is almost a bad word among gamers. That doesn't mean I want all DLC to go away because some developers do use it responsibly.)

[@Tralfazz74]

Man, the idea of forcing players to take a break after a losing streak is a such a good one

[@ObsidianMinor]

In Team Fortress 2, the exit point seem to be, not in the round end, but the next map rotation.

[@databanks]

Bethesda loading screen crashes - that's my exit point since the game crashed anyway

[@bowsette_irl]

TRUE

[@enderdragon916]

Data Banks I tend to put down New Vegas after three crashes in short succession.

[@nathankurtz8045]

For me, Fallout 4 has the biggest problem with crashes, especially on Survival. There are times where I've slept in a bed when I was in zero danger because I knew a freeze or crash to desktop could happen any second.

[@minoreror9961]

ITS LATE O, CLOCK

[@Mincecroft]

A life system like in Candy Crush? TBH that is one of the reasons why I stopped playing it

[@Cas5149]

I played a MMO RPG that had a pretty good exit point, if you played too many hours without stopping, it would not only suggest you to take a break, but would also offer a bonus to your character if you rested. It was the only one that I liked, because even though I loved the game, the bonus was tempting enough for me to put the game down.

[@amain9638]

Cas5149 what game is it?

[@kristian2827]

@@amain9638 Something like that is implemented in WoW as well in form of a rested xp bonus

[@KOkami03]

I'm reminded of Ness's dad calling to suggest you take a break in Earthbound...

[@andersnrsteb6302]

2:00 Run-run-run-run-run! Such small, but priceless moments are a part of what makes this show so great.

[@paullytle246]

extra credit you need a exit point it currently 1 am

[@Alche_mist]

That long video outro may serve as one. That's the time you get to notice it's 1 AM and tell yourself: "Fuck it, tomorrow actually DOES exist, let's leave it as that."

[@loliabuzer]

5:10 after 4 years this point still hasn't been learned by too many companies *cough cough* riot *cough cough*

[@littlekuribohimposte]

I feel Phoenix Wright games do exit points well. You can save after each trial section and investigation section, but if it's taking too long, you can save and suspend play at any point during the game.

[@JMA160491]

Extra Credits I must thank you for all that you teach about games and game design also this has to be one of my favorite episodes of your main show, mainly because I just love looking for exit points in games, even though before I saw this show I didnt know that was what I was doing. So this show spoke to me and well I might just start looking at different game types that I have not looked at before, mostly the so called "Hardcore" games, just to look for different design ideas and exit points. So thank you EC, and hopefully future game developers and designers watch this show to get ideas for their games.

[@zzasdfwas]

Please don't go. The drones need you. They look up to you.

[@MuttleyGames]

Just one more Extra Credit video..Damn recommended youtube videos :D

[@1973Washu]

The best system I have found for exit points is a story driven system, where missions are like episodes in a TV show, they have a clear beginning, middle and end, and they lead seamlessly into the next mission/episode and the missions are short enough that you can easily manage you play time , but long enough to tell a story. About 1/4 to 1/2 of an hour is usually enough. This way players who want a short play session can be satisfied , but players who want a longer play session can easily ignore these exit points.

[@larskarhof4712]

my brother used to tell my parents he needed to find a saving point or else his progress would be lost, just to keep playing for a bit as with those games he could have saved whenever he would have wanted to...

[@moonwalklover901]

*Runs out of things to do in energy based game* "One of the most common unintentional exit points in a game is when players simply run out of things to do" COINCIDENCE? Yeah, probably.

[@PandoraDaFoxx]

5:33 This was me with ARMS. I don't mind losing. It's just part of playing a game. But when everyone is so much better than you that it's rare that you WIN, it's hard to find enjoyment in the game. I was in a match on day ONE, where this guy would knock me down, then have it timed to the *millisecond* I was hittable again, so I'd be immediately knocked back down. I got two hits on him in the whole match. Yeah, that was my second-to-last exit point. My final exit point for ARMS was leaving a five-match losing streak. I sold the game less than 72 hours after buying it.

[@sethfirethornw101]

wow you guys are so smart. i know you guys do things so i really appreciate that you would take the time out of your day/week/timeframe to make these videos.

[@franzluggin398]

SuperMeatBoy also has this "review" of all the deaths you made Meatboy suffer through, but at the end, all at once, because making it more concentrated takes less time and better shows you how horribly you screwed up at that spike-salt-spike section.

[@Notester82]

2:01 - Wow, your Super Meat Boy impression is really good.. ^w^

[@ChasoGod]

In the anime Sword Art Online during the Fairy Dance arc they had an interesting exit point system where you could log out in inns or your player home. Otherwise you'd just be AFK and could be attacked by monsters or other players if you log out anywhere else.

[@ymeynot0405]

Dreamer Dawn That goes all the way back to the first MMORPG... MUDS text based games. I played Arctic (a mud based on Dragon Lance) and you had to log out in inns which charged you X gold a day so you had to come back or eventually you'd run out of gold and be deleted.

[@ZombieMurdock667]

I remember playing Metal Gear 4 and one of the loading screens telling me that i've played for a long time (it was a six hour gaming session) and advising me to take a break.

[@Zuzezno]

I just wanted to say that you guys are very insightful. Keep the good work.