BIG BOY is NOT the BIGGEST? What is then?

"Biggest steam locomotive ever made." Well, not really. Let's go...
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[@Alcochaser]

Jawn Henry was absolutely insane.. 600PSI Water Tube SHIP boiler. Driving a turbine providing electricity. It had AUTOMATIC boiler controls.. They built a freaking coal power plant on wheels. and of all the experimentals Jawn.. worked. Almost too well, it was infamous for doing things like pulling knuckles and even pulled a couple hoppers apart. It was put in Pusher service for that fact. It wasn't replicated because it cost a freaking fortune. But by god could the thing pull...

[@Hyce777]

Good Lord. That thing was rad.

[@Stooltoad5017]

Wow.

[@NorfKhazad]

The Jawn had other issues as well. Tended to crack turbine blades if the operator changed power output demands too rapidly. Had problems with coal dust and water playing hell with the electronics. Very sensitive about water quality, and as you said, prohibitively expensive. None of these were insurmountable problems, but it came too late for other railroads to be interested so the money just wasn't there to refine the concept further. I should also note that the tractive effort rating provided by Hyce for the Jawn is off a bit. The operator's manual (which I have a reprint of) states continuous tractive effort at 10 mph at 144,000 lbs, and starting tractive effort at 175,000 lbs. Still respectable numbers to be sure and much higher than the Big Boy.

[@raymondleggs5508]

@@NorfKhazad Shame that at least one part wasn't preserved

[@davidwhiting1761]

@@NorfKhazad So Jawn Henry was essentially the equivalent of some variant of SD70?

[@FanRailer]

Long story short; the 4000 class isn’t the leader in any specific category (weight, length, horsepower, speed, etc), but it is perhaps the largest general purpose locomotive. Most other locomotives that beat the Big Boys categorically were designed to fulfill very niche roles on their home railroads and would not do well outside those roles. The Big Boys on the other hand, could get down on their knees and pound up a grade at 10-15 mph with tonnage, but then also pick up its rods on the flatlands and run 55-65 mph with that same tonnage.

[@andrewmagosky7181]

The Alleghenies were also general purpose engines. Ugly as sin but they were designed for horsepower at speed. Although the C&O used them to haul coal trains up the sides of mountains at 15 they could and did pull fast freight at 45 to 55 and could have gone faster. They were really designed for fast freight even though they were absurdly heavy.

[@Hyce777]

Very true. The big boys are excellent locomotives..

[@eekee6034]

The way I learned it, (back in the 80s,) the Big Boy itself was a niche loco. It was built for relatively tight curves, pulling a lot of coal uphill on a tight mountain route. The Alleghenies presumably didn't have that restriction.

[@yankinga]

@@eekee6034 Don't know where you got your information from, but the 4000s were built specifically for service between Ogden and Green River, where they hauled mainly manifest trains and perishables (fruit blocks). Coal trains were not their assignments. The route does not have particularly tight curvature. The restricting factor on the size of the 4000s was the vertical clearance in the Aspen tunnel, east of Evanston, WY. In the intervening years the tunnel's height has been increased and now accommodates stack trains. It wasn't until they were bumped by diesels that they routinely ran east of Green River. They finished out their service lives on Sherman Hill, between Cheyenne and Laramie. During that time they would be run down to Denver, and occasionally to North Platte. They had to be turned on wyes at both terminals because there were no turntables to accommodate them there. Although they were cleared to run on main lines across the entire system from LA and Portland in the west to Council Bluffs and Kansas City in the east, they stayed on the original UP route between Ogden and Council Bluffs, except for the runs to Denver and a series of test runs between Salt Lake City and Milford, UT. That was oil fuel territory, so the 4000s had to be fueled with a clamshell bucket from hopper cars, the way coal burners on fan trips are done today.

[@WardenWolf]

The Big Boys were the largest mass-produced locomotives, I believe.

[@cooscountyrailvideos2024]

I’ve always said this: “4014 and her sisters are the largest surviving steam locomotives in existence”

[@CoalChrome]

even then they're probably not.

[@HenryGengler]

Def not largest surviving. Largest operating right now? Sure

[@jackchatfield5464]

talking about sisters of 4014, 4004, & 4012 needs to follow suit in restoration, big boys were so long that they had to have special 140ft turntables built for them to fit on,

[@StreamlineProductions5545]

Is it sister or brother when it comes to the big boys, they’re called big BOYS.

[@kevinm.n.5158]

Good for you bubb

[@Alex-RealApplebees]

Ive seen Big Boys and Ive seen DM&IR Yellowstones. Both are incredible locomotives but damn the Yellowstones are chunky iron movers and I love them.

[@blackstone1a]

One of the funniest things I've learned about Big Boys is that they have lighter axle loadings that N&W Js... **Theoretically** we can run it at Strasburg 😂

[@gregsagerer1441]

That's hysterical! I did temp work as a train cleaner for a summer at Strasburg, and it would be hilarious to see an articulated run there

[@CoalChrome]

RESTORE IT AND RUN IT AT STRASBURG

[@whatusernameis5295]

lmao welp time to start a penitition

[@bobross4449]

Oh god that’s the foamer apocalypse dear lord

[@cykablyatman6242]

​​@@bobross4449 shush, money for the prr museum's restorations too, and the real foamer apocalypse would be 1225

[@seymoarsalvage]

"Medium Boy"

[@electrik_loss]

"Larger than average lad"

[@mokou2526]

"Tremendous Terry"

[@user-vm8rv3hs5z]

“Sizeable Sally”

[@IsaacDaBoatSloth]

people saying the big boy is the biggest forget about the russian 4-14-sometging i forgot as well as the belgian overkill 0-6-2+2-4-2-4-2+2-6-0 locomotive which was too powerful for our European couplings

[@Yorie1234]

The quadraplex was a Belgian locomotive, don't blame the Netherlands for that

[@TyrixBE]

@@Yorie1234We're such a small country, we got to overcompensate somewhere 😅

[@turkeytrac1]

The Russian loco you refer to,was like the steam turbine engines mentioned here, it rarely ran. Unlike the mechanical issues the ST machines, the Russian loco literally destroyed the rails it ran on.

[@lordsherifftakari4127]

the AA20 4-14-4 is the Largest Rigid frame loco made. considered a Failure in Russia for several reasons not it's own fault. it regularly tore apart the track it ran on because the Russian Mainline Rail size wasn't heavy enough to properly hold this monster up resulting in several derailments from wrecked Track. it was a notoriously rough riding loco very hard on it's operators from reciprocating occilation resulting from it's center of mass directly over the 4th driving axle. this caused an unnerving seesaw effect which didn't help the already overburdened track either.

[@paveloleynikov4715]

Russian one had longest rigid frame. Compared to many articulated engines, he was pretty small (whole idea of it was to get powerful simple locomotive within low axle loads).

[@davidwhiting1761]

Essentially we are here because UP was the only railroad to put out a special documentary *specifically* for a locomotive (Last of the Giants) rather than a documentary about typical railroad operations in which UP could control the narrative. And from UP's perspective the 4000s were the biggest ever built (for their railroad).

[@ZergSmasher]

It's really sad that none of those other big choochoos still exist. Guess nobody was worried about preservation back in those days and just wanted the metal. Cool video as always Hyce!

[@petert3355]

So what we need is crowd funded restoration projects here?

[@willausterman3104]

There's still two Alleghenies left

[@BaronOBeefDip]

There is still a Y6b

[@alansloan7784]

Thank God that two Alleghenies *and* a Y6b still exist. While I'd love to see them all restored to operating condition, the fact that they're preserved is excellent.

[@CaptainChaos95]

It seems silly, but I think 1 reason that the Big Boy is so iconic as "The biggest" is due to it simply looking the part. No streamlining, the whole pilot assembly is massive, it has a lot of rough and tough looking external parts. Ect. It just looks like the designers said screw making it pretty and give me as much power as you can. Plus the name definitely helps.

[@Leatherface123.]

And the locomotive without its tender is considerably larger than the S1 without its tender

[@lowercherty]

The Big Boy is an awesome locomotive, and I never in my life thought I would see one that large restored. Locally, we compare it to the Missabe Yellowstones. They were about 100 feet apart when yhe Big Boy visited the Duluth museum. Truth be told, they overlap a lot in statistics. Big Boy has more boiler horsepower and top speed. Yellowstone has less horsepower and lower top speed, but more tractive effort. Big Boy is slightly longer because it was designed to burn low BTU western coal compared to the Missabe's eastern coal, thus it has a bigger firebox. Both were designed to do different things. Big Boy was designed to pull trains in mountains at relatively high speeds. Yellowstone was designed to pull endlessly long ore trains at very low speeds. Both were awesome locomotives, and I am very fortunate to see one of them running.

[@steeplecab]

Remember that the classification "Yellowstone" was from the Northern Pacific's classes of steam monsters that originated the name, running heavy main line freights over the NP's undulating profile across North Dakota and along the Yellowstone River for much of their main line. They were a well developed class as witnessed by the NP's four classes of 2-8-8-4s, Z-5 throughZ-8, comprising more than 50 units. But when the NP dieselized, they leaned into it and never looked back. By 1959, all the Zs were gone. Management had no desire to look back on steam and preferred to be seen as a modern progressive road that was eager to embrace the larger high horsepower diesels that came along. Only smaller steam engines were given to communities along the line. Even the historic Timken locomotive was cut up, against the wishes of many.

[@catfish552]

I think the one headline you flashed up at the beginning of the video actually puts it well with "Largest Successful Steam Locomotive". That seems like a neat enough way to exclude some of the weirdo prototypes.

[@NorfKhazad]

Widest steam locomotive was the Virginian 2-10-10-2s, which were just over 12 feet wide to accommodate their 48" low pressure cylinders. This is outside standard clearances so they had to be shipped to the Virginian with the cylinders, cabs and running boards removed and even then could only be shipped on higher than normal clearance routes. They also had the largest diameter boilers of any steam locomotives, the highest tractive effort of any successful steam locomotive, and the largest amount of evaporative heating surface of any steam locomotive. This is all despite being built in 1919, more than two decades before the Big Boys.

[@NorfKhazad]

I should also note that the tractive effort number provided in this video is for compound operation. With their enormous boilers the 2-10-10-2s were normally run in simple for starting trains, and could produce 176,600 lbs of tractive effort when high pressure steam was sent to the huge front cylinders. Also I say highest tractive effort of any "successful" steam locomotive, because 10 of them were built and they operated for 25-30 years doing more milage than the Big Boys despite having a top speed of around 15 mph. The locomotives that exceeded them like the Virginian Triplex and Jawn Henry were one off experimental designs which were scrapped long before their designed service lives were over.

[@trainman5513]

The thing with engineering anything for a specific application is that you ideally want to know exactly what you want the machine to do, and then optimize it for that use. There are stronger, longer, heavier locomotives than Big Boy, of course, but to compare really any engine of similar principle between one another, when you get down to brass tacks, is an apples to oranges comparison. These machines were designed for a specific purpose, at a specific speed, in a specific environment with specific restrictions. To ask what’s the absolute fastest, or absolute strongest, or absolute anything abut any machine sort of loses the nuance of what actually matters. What actually matters, in this case to the railroad management, is what is the best locomotive for us. What is the strongest or fastest locomotive, for us, for our specific restrictions and requirements. One excellent example of this, in my opinion, is the Milwaukee Road’s Atlantic types for the Hiawatha. Almost every other railroad went for Pacifics, Hudsons, even Northerns for similar requirements, and yes, even the Milwaukee themselves ended up budging and buying Baltics (what they called Hudsons) later on. But what mattered most to the Milwaukee wasn’t ‘whats the strongest, fastest engine on the market right now’, it was ‘what is the best design for our needs and restrictions right now’, and it just so happens that a superpowered variant of the venerable Atlantic design happened to fit the bill.

[@Stooltoad5017]

Agreed. I’ve already said my thoughts about the subject, but there is more to locomotive design than just what is the biggest and the fastest.

[@dominicf8039]

This is going to be controversial...

[@ybunnygurl]

It shouldn't be that a controversial big boy was never the biggest and it may now be the biggest still running.

[@legenderaly2070]

@@ybunnygurl it was always perceived as the biggest

[@Talesfromtherails8277]

Lol

[@F40M07]

Hell yes it is

[@Hyce777]

Wasn't expecting it to be, lol.

[@pyromaniacal13]

Justice for the Allegheny!

[@leightonmoreland]

And then there's the clearly most superior engine at the opposite end of the size spectrum....Montezuma! Your big boy can haul a train a mile long but can it fit in a carry on?

[@Hyce777]

See, that's the beauty. Lol

[@Stooltoad5017]

If you could fit it in a carry on, could you put it in a plane? Lol.

[@alwaysbearded1]

@@Stooltoad5017Then it would be the fastest loco ever.

[@tatecarlson]

One must wonder… who gave Union Pacific, PRR, and N&W unrestricted access to the whiskey? All jokes aside, I think the Big Boy is the best of the largest locomotives, but the PRR Q2s were the best of the ridged frame locomotives.

[@gamerfan8445]

Yellowstone?

[@ferky123]

I believe that you mean rigid frame locomotives.

[@whispofwords2590]

I mean it worked ig..except for what the Pennsy. No idea how they thought the S1 would be practical..or any of the other weird duplexes.

[@ThePTBRULES]

​@@whispofwords2590The T1 and Q2 worked just fine tbh. Just too late.

[@timothystamm3200]

​@whispofwords2590, well, if they had fixed the poppet valve problem and built and rebuilt right of ways to be like the Lackawanna cutoff, then it could have been a high speed steam locomotive. And yes, I mean actual high-speed rail.

[@enjoyinsanity7065]

I love that you showed the Q2 in the thumbnail and then didn't mention it in spite of putting out 7,987 peak HP.

[@commissarcarl1700]

indicated, drawbar is 6645.

[@Hyce777]

I missed that in my narrative and Wings & Strings got it for the thumbnail. Bonkers.

[@user-hu9si1ku6p]

​@@commissarcarl17007987 AT THE COUPLER BEFORE POWER TO MOVE ITSELF ,, WHICH WOULD INDICATE JUST UNDER 7500 HP ---- RIGHT THERE WITH THE ALLEGHENY .. AVAILABLE FOR WORKING

[@garryferrington811]

They were unsuccessful. A waste of money.

[@09JDCTrainMan]

Those were the most thirsty steam locomotives I've seen reports on, consuming a whopping 16,600 gallons of water an hour.

[@edwardpapak4234]

I locomotive I'd love to see Run is the C&O Alleghany, I've seen them in person, Truly astounding piece of machinery.

[@p35flash97]

Norfolk and Western y6b for the win. Normal locomotive meant to haul coal trains. Such an awesome engine.

[@thetoontrain6073]

Funny how people argue about this. I just say that it’s the largest OPERATIONAL locomotive.

[@brandywineben3624]

I just finished my first day on the job as a rail car repair man, it’s amazing how much engineering and mechanical work goes into something as simple as a hopper car. Today I worked on getting all the hooper doors to close and lock properly and then started work on rust correction and patching. Lots of fun for those who enjoy hands on work and plenty of welding. Great for those who enjoy working outside. Has my name written all over it! Not to mention having the pleasure of watching trains go by all day.

[@CDavis-ut1ob]

My Dad was a Carmen for 16 years and loved it.

[@IsaacBaxter]

Remember the Virginian 2-10-10-2 which have ALL THE POWER. Edit: I'm writing this when it was published at 6 minutes

[@CoalChrome]

and was actually the biggest steam locomotive ever built

[@NashRailfan]

But didn’t have as much power as a yellowstone

[@philtheairplanemechanic]

Do you mean the triplex 2-10-10-10-2? Or did they make a duplex decapod? At any rate the triplex was a hot garbage engine. She couldn't really go above, like, 8MPH. But, it was really, REALLY hard to slow her down from 8MPH at max beans. Something like 115k lbs tractive. I know they served for some banking duties for a bit but then were broken apart and made into decapods I believe.

[@IsaacBaxter]

​@@NashRailfan in mallet form ya but in simple mode it's more power than the Yellowstones

[@NashRailfan]

@@IsaacBaxter Yellowstones are Yellowstones.. there are no variations (except SP).. all are 2-8-8-4’s, or for SP, 4-8-8-2 (cab forwards)

[@CAPFlyer]

I've always had issues with anyone listing the Jawn Henry as a "steam locomotive" in anything but the most general sense. It is, by definition, a Steam Turbine-Electric Locomotive (STEL), not a Steam Locomotive. How the turbine is operated doesn't actually matter in the classification. It falls under the same operating principles and in many ways has much more in common with the GTELs than a steam locomotive since the steam is not directly driving the drive axles. "Steam Locomotive" has always described what powers the driving axles, which is why the GTELs were "Gas Turbine-Electric" and most modern road engines are "Diesel-Electric".

[@scottwendt9575]

Agreed! The Jawn Henry isn’t anymore a steam locomotive than the Arleigh Burke, or for that matter the Nimitz, are steam ships!

[@davidrayner9832]

Using your logic, a diesel-electric should simply be called an electric because that's what powers the axles. But they're not, they're called diesels because that's what makes the power. Using that far more common logic, what makes the power on the Jawn Henry and the M-1 for that matter? Steam.

[@scottwendt9575]

@@davidrayner9832 So, I guess then since they are powered with high pressure steam turbines the US Navy’s entire fleet is steam aircraft carriers and steam submarines?

[@davidrayner9832]

@@scottwendt9575 Diesel, when describing a locomotive, is short for diesel-electric so the ships and submarines would be steam-turbine-electric which you can say if you want to but most people would shorten it to steam-turbine or you could shorten it further to just steam. Any of those is OK.

[@BandanRRChannel]

Hmm...I'm not familiar enough with some of those eastern engines, but I think part of the reason the Big Boy stands out (besides excellent publicity on UP's part) was the fact that it was not only large and powerful, but could also move fast. The Big Boys were reportedly tested at up to 80 mph, although its optimum speed was much lower; looking at the list of stronger engines, most of them look like engines designed to slog heavy trains at low speeds. Its size limited its operating territory, but the Big Boy was a much more general-purpose locomotive than the others. And a "world's biggest engine" that can roar by at 60-70 mph with a long string of cars sounds more impressive than one that trudges by at 20mph with a long string of cars.

[@shawndoyle7531]

The Allegheny's regularly hauled 140-160 car loaded coal trains and merchandise trains at 45 mph, so these two are certainly in a league of their own

[@Hyce777]

Oh certainly. I'm not saying the big boy was not the most capable thing around, I'm just saying if you claim it's the biggest of all time you're not right. Lol

[@DUBMANS]

Big boy: you dare challenge me mortal. A God of Steam.

[@steakthedoggaming5333]

Even a passing mention of the Virginian AE Class of 2-10-10-2s makes me happy. So obscure, but just so neat.

[@dannagy546]

That PRR with long tender is a I1sa class 2-10-0 pulling a 210F82 tender. The 210F82 tender is a 21,000 gallon tender with some 21 tons of coal, on a pair of 8 wheel tenders with a modern 3 person doghouse. When fully loaded, it would have outweighed the I1 by about 80,000 pounds. The I1 was known as a monster locomotive from the drag freight era and was nicknamed the Hippo

[@CDavis-ut1ob]

Awesome video Hyce! A little something to add though, the first class of UP Big Boys, the 4-8-8-4-1’s, which 4014 is a part of, weighed 762,000 lbs. The first batch of C&O Alleghenies weighed 771,300 lbs.

[@NazarovVv]

Fantastic video. Here in Bulgaria we operated a fleet of tank locomotives made for the Bulgarian State Railways which were called class 46 or in other words 2-12-4T which were supposedly the most powerful tank locos ever operated in Europe. One of them is still in running order.

[@PennsyPappas]

What i mention to people more often is that the Challengers and Big Boys for the most part were the railroads having their cake and eating it to. What i mean by that is theyre some of if bot the fastest Articulated steam engines ever produced because of what the UP needed at the time. East Coast or just mountain railroad articulated steam engines needed raw tractive effort over speed where as Big Boy and Challengers beeded to go hogh speed over long distances. So its a very well rounded Articulated steam engine when you look at its contempoaries for the day. Its a great engine but at times is i think just a bit overrated for what people think about it in general. But those are just my thoughts thank you for this lovely video Hyce.

[@keysontrains538]

i remember reading somewhere that the whole reason the Big Boys were kinda unimpressive in these straight up comparisons was because a lot of the monsters in the east were built for long grueling coal drags through the mountains while Big Boys were meant to tackle the rolling hills of the Midwest with fairly though not as heavy trains at a reasonable click to account for…all the plains. different engines for different jobs ofc. though, im not quite sure how correct this is and would appreciate input.

[@sitharc]

I remember seeing the one they had at the Green Bay museum many years ago, big boy indeed big. Remember taking a picture of all the valves and such inside its cab.

[@Dan_Gyros]

Oh what I would give for the John Henry to have been preserved. That thing is a UNIT

[@Elliottblancher]

Jeremy Clarkson will be happy to hear about these engines with Speed and Power

[@A_person473]

I always knew Big Boy wasn't the biggest. But I didn't know they were that low on the boards.

[@philtheairplanemechanic]

Mark you're a great educator. Could listen to you talk about trains for hours (I mean, I literally do). You're really good at communicating ideas clearly and without getting deep into jargon and when you do you've been great about explaining it.

[@patricksheary2219]

Hi Mark, thanks for this great learning moment. I liked how you contextualized Big Boy with both technical and historical information. You answered some questions I had about fabulous Big Boy by defining what “big” for a choo choo really can mean. I so appreciate these wonderful learning videos, thanks again for making it and as always cheers to you Professor!

[@Arkay315]

My best guess, the biggest locomotive is one of those articulated giants built for hauling long trains or one of those weird giant one off experimental locomotives.

[@WEM2016]

Do you have the slightest idea how little that narrows it down?! XD

[@Arkay315]

@@WEM2016 yes

[@organbuilder272]

Big Boy is one of those articulated giants.

[@Arkay315]

@@organbuilder272 you don't say? Oh gosh you are such an observational genius. Who could have known that an articulated locomotive was articulated? You should get a noble prize for your improvement of society.

[@ColtonRMagby]

The Pennsylvania Railroad S1 has 7,200 WHAT at 100 miles per hour? Jeez!

[@timothystamm3200]

Yeah it and the T1 plus their plan to fully electrify before the 1930s ICC reported them to the 1930s IRS for tax evasion to fund it, makes me think they were dreaming the same high speed and frequency dream that the Japanese National Railway was having at the same time with Shinkansen. They might have been intended as steam high speed operators until electrification was complete. Hell, to a certain degree they were at least that time period's equivalent because they were usually right below the Shinkansen 0 series normal speed bases on the schedule they were keeping.

[@ColtonRMagby]

@@timothystamm3200 *long whistle*

[@ReggieArford]

Isn't that the one they're trying to build a modern copy of?

[@ColtonRMagby]

@@ReggieArford I don't know.

[@1471SirFrederickBanbury]

@@timothystamm3200 isn’t that what everyone dreamed of though? Everyone was looking to the future and potential for electrification. If the T1s had Walshaerts valve gear and/or had been 4 cylinder compound 4-8-4s with a better exhaust arrangement, I do see a potential to use steam as a temporary high speed solution.

[@R.A.V172]

I feel like people say this because its sorta the jack of all trades, as it has big stats in every catagory, whilst others would be the biggest in all the other catagorys, there would be a catagory where it has average measurments

[@Stooltoad5017]

Agreed. Most of these were specialists in a given area. The big boy could do all of them but not quite as well. That isn’t a bad thing. The interesting thing to me about American railroading is that almost every Giant class one had their own form of giant superpower locomotive to haul a huge amount of tonnage at various different speeds. The C&O had their Alleghenys, the Pennsy had giant duplex freight locomotives. The DM&I and B&O had their Yellowstones. SP had cab forwards. The N&W had their steam giants. Etc. Maybe instead of fighting over what was the best, we should celebrate what we managed to save from this era of railroading.

[@happiestcamel5064]

I’ve seen the 4017 in Green Bay, WI. Impeccable machines. Even though they are far from the largest, still glad that we have eight of them around, god forbid one that runs. Will forever be a symbol of American superpower steam days

[@TrainLover-wt9ix]

Many other steam locomotive before Big Boy was more powerful than Big Boy, like the Triplex.

[@IsaacDaBoatSloth]

largest surviving does not mean largest ever but people confuse the two

[@primemoverRR]

Awesome video! Thanks for doing a video featuring these giants of steam!

[@alexandregermain8011]

Hey, just to say, it would be very nice to have metric conversions written at least a few times, for your rail fans from the other side of the ocean who loves your trains 😊 not asking to use them orally, just write them Still, the big boy is quite a huge beast, would love to see it

[@FlakusCorporation]

I always learn something new on this channel. Did you meet Ed Dickens while you were here in Carson City? I was surprised to learn while standing there talking to him that he wasn’t just allowed to run the Big Boy sometimes, he RUNS THE PROGRAM.

[@Hyce777]

I've met Ed a few times. He's great.

[@Jennifer-K5LA]

Big boy was listed as the world's largest "production " steam locomotive, not "THE" largest steam locomotive. Several publications acknowledge this fact, however rule out the others due to their short and limited existence, considering them experimental or concept locomotives rather than real service units. Hope this helps 😊

[@rapcreeperproductions3269]

We need to start a trust to rebuild the S1. I hope the T1 trust is successful so it can prove we can build a locomotive again.

[@Stooltoad5017]

The S1 is simply too large to make sense rebuilding. The T1 can actually maneuver around the same tracks a large northern or a 2-8-4 can. The S1? I wouldn’t think so.

[@rapcreeperproductions3269]

@@Stooltoad5017 build a special track in the desert

[@Stooltoad5017]

@@rapcreeperproductions3269 That’s a tad more complex than you’re giving it credit for. Besides, a desert isn’t a great environment for an S1.

[@Ecoplarin]

The DM&IR 2-8-8-4 Yellowstone has always been a personal favorite of mine, but even I acknowledge the Big Boy is way more practical outside of the Yellowstone's niche of hauling heavy iron ore. Really cool video!

[@joecomparato7332]

My wife and I got to see the Big Boy come thru Washington Missouri several years back. It was one of the most impressive machines I have ever had the pleasure of seeing.

[@brookspotts9312]

Great video Hyce 👍

[@normmcrae1140]

Did you take into consideration any of the big Garretts from South Africa? Some of those are VERY long, and quite powerful, too. One thing about the Big Boys was how WELL they worked. Many of the other engines were failures for different reasons - from being extremely complicated (like many Duplex engines), to excessive maintenance, to not having the steam capacity to make use of their power.

[@jaysverrisson1536]

Yes, I've heard it said of the Big Boys--exaggerating a tad--that you all you have to do is put warm water in them and they go!

[@eekee6034]

I was thinking about Garret engines too, but don't remember anything specific about them. Isn't the Big Boy itself classified as a Garret as it has one boiler over two sets of driving wheels.

[@Stooltoad5017]

@@eekee6034The Big Boy is not a Garret. Only the first set of drivers swivels. The boiler sits on the second pair like other articulateds.

[@eekee6034]

@@Stooltoad5017 Ah, I see. Thanks.

[@SiqueScarface]

The only reason why today's locomotives are smaller is that you don't need a big boiler, and thus you are more flexible by adding more locomotives, all centrally controlled from a single cab instead of one big engine. But still, there are the MTAB IORE at 150" total length.

[@DarkSyster]

At least a few Challengers still exist. Big Boy turned out to not be the most economical either. It was designed to haul freight over the Rockies with the idea that it could haul longer trains. But 3 Challengers could easily pull the same as 2 Big Boys and the 3 Challengers would use less fuel and the water as the 2 Big Boys for the same job. The Big Boys were the "great big experiment", and that's where the excitement lies.

[@Isteak80]

I did, in fact, go down a rabbit hole of these other locomotives you mentioned, so thank you for this video. I certainly learned some new things. Like the S1 being an absolute chad.

[@victorcontreras3368]

I applaud you for bringing this out to viewers! Apart from locomotives, in life, there are also many other subjects that people need to be told the true facts. It will bring us to better understanding in the way life is.

[@richiewingo9027]

Thanks for the education Hyce! I learned something new today.

[@victorcontreras3368]

Very good! It is always good to know the facts and I must have seen this video about six times now to soak in many details. Good work in your research.

[@johnmarkrountree6196]

I remember as a teenager visiting the fair park rail museum in Dallas Tx had a cab forward steam loco and the big boy. the keeper made it clear that the cab forward was actually longer than the big boy and that has stuck with me ever since.

[@OtakuGekko]

I’m extremely happy that Y6As got a moment in the spotlight. Thank you my friend

[@earllutz2663]

Thank you sir for your analysis. I very much like the Big Boy and I will say as you did that 4014 Big Boy is a great example of a humongous steam engine that IS in service TODAY. But there were by numerous measurements bigger steam locomotives. So thank you again for your video.

[@nssrrailfan6443]

I have always been told that the DM&IR Yellowstones are the most powerful steam locomotives. Always wondered this. Amazing video, and it taught me a lot!

[@jasondecristoforo4882]

Awesome video. Thanks for doing this and giving Pennsylvania the Facts it deserves. Can't wait for the T1

[@TX-biker]

LOVE the Big Boy. Also REALLY enjoyed the reality check👍🏽🤠

[@HenryGengler]

The big boy has always been kinda weird in that it was designed for huge fast freight service but it was actually used in that capacity and was also extremely good at long haul freight drags as well. It was a very well rounded locomotive. The Alleghenys were also fast freight engines but ended up as coal draggers and werent as good. The big boy did what it was designed to do well bery well and operated outside its design parameters very well. But it wasnt the best in terms of fulfillment of their designed purposes. The S1 and the Y6s were still better at the purposes for which they were built however big boy did better at things outside of its design parameters

[@NEAFarmKid4010]

I've heard it described as the largest by wheel arrangement too (I guess because of the fact that its a 4-8-8-4), which also isn't technically correct because the Virginian had some 2-10-10-2s that were actually decent from what I've heard and not cursed like the ones the Santa Fe had lol

[@Hyce777]

Yeah it doesn't win that really nor does that really make sense as a category imo lol

[@user-lq2yh3vv3v]

I thought up a fictional 4-10-10-6 locomotive once (simple articulated), and I just did the math, it outputs just SHY of 200,000 pound-force in tractive effort (the exact amount is 199,920 pound-force) it also uses the same boiler width as the Virginian AE class 2-10-10-2 (and now that Im thinking about it, how much would this 4-10-10-6 weigh?)

[@jaysverrisson1536]

Why stop there? Why not weld a couple 4-12-2 types together and make a 4-12-12-6? Not sure how many cyclinders it ought to have--four, five, six? All you'd need would be railroad with no curves and turnouts a quarter of a mile long. I always thought that would be fun fantasy loco to model in HO scale . . .

[@user-lq2yh3vv3v]

@@jaysverrisson1536 Still, just how much would the darn thing weigh?

[@jaysverrisson1536]

@@user-lq2yh3vv3v Well, very roughly speaking, a Big Boy 4-8-8-4 (minus the tender) is a bit more than half again as heavy than the heaviest 4-8-4s. A 4-12-2 (minus the tender) weighs in at a just under 500,000 lbs, comparable to a heavy 4-8-4. So, I figure a 4-12-12-6 might weigh upwards of 750,000 plus some extra for the 6-wheel trailing trunk vs. the 2 wheels of the original. Maybe 775,00 to 800,000 lbs for the loco alone, i.e. comparable to a Big Boy or Allegheny, or a little more, but not drastically more?

[@Wandering_4ever]

To me steam is fascinating , no matter how big or how small it might be . For the people that ran and worked on them ,they were just bigger tools for the trade . I'm told even the Reading RR here in PA ran articulated "2-8-8-2's I think" , for big coal drags ,what a site that would have been to see . That being said, would love to see one of the SP Cab Forwards run,but, think there's only 1 left ,so that will more than likely never happen ..... Great Content Mark ...

[@joshmumpower4077]

Thanks bro really enjoy the info and history

[@user-Duckmaster22]

Big Boy is big but not the biggest boy.

[@lutomson3496]

ive seen the big boy running very impressive here in the sierra nevada mountains that setup would not work hence a cab forward design due to snow sheds, tunnels and the fumes Southern Pacific 4294 is an example not the biggest, but still did as much mountain work if not more then the big boys did. UP still uses steam driven Rotary Snow plows that Ive seen operating quite a few times

[@themanformerlyknownascomme777]

it's just amazing how many giant steam engines there were and their levels of power simply bogle the mind.

[@andywomack3414]

I remember a remark from a guide at the Forney Museum in Denver about the "Big Boy" on display there. He said that that locomotive was too big for railroads in the eastern US. I let the remark pass. I used to work for the B&O and have distant memories of steam on the N&W pulling trains up the Scioto River valley from Portsmouth, Ohio. I wasn't certain, but both the B&O, N&W and other eastern rails had some impressive large articulates in x-8-8-x configurations, such as "Yellowstones." Could the "Big Boy" have been used in the curvy hilly rails in n the eastern US?

[@johnbeck3270]

How did Santa Fe’s “Double Decapod” compare? Although it failed miserably, that had to be larger than the “Big Boy”. As memory serves, the Santa Fe’s 2-10-10-2 had an articulated boiler. The Santa Fe wound up rebuilding these into 2 , 2-10-0’s with the addition of cabs, fire boxes, smoke boxes etc to each half as necessary. If successful, they would have outclassed the “Big Boy”.

[@renanbravo4455]

This is definitely the weirdest yet the most interesting video that won't add anything in my life, I love it

[@cambridgelsstudent]

This is a question I've had for a long time... Thanks for the video.

[@SimplyTakuma]

Big respect that UP brought back the Big Boy. I know the Big Boy isn't a record holder, but for me the Big Boy is the best allrounder, also the Challenger. They made the one thing very good for what they made for.

[@WilliamHSeed]

Well researched & well done

[@patlatorres7000]

The C&O H-8 is arguably heavier than the Big Boy, but Lima "altered" some of the weight information, due to restrictions on weight on portions of the C&O. They later got caught in this and had to pay a substantial penalty to the C&O, yet they stayed in service. The firebox on the H-8 was larger as well. The Big boy got known as the "largest" due to the u.p.'s PR work, since they have always seemed to have a size compensation issue.

[@mrme5224]

This guy explained it really well, thank you for explaining this lol.

[@jimmythatguy]

I unfortunately did not learn anything this time and thats fine. I have a feeling they only say its the biggest purely for the headline of worlds biggest, its catchy, and in your face.

[@MainlyHuman]

I think rather than trying to qualify what a "normal" steam loco is we should instead consider what a successful locomotive type means. To me this means the locomotive being able to do its job effectively, resulting in a production run of locomotives that made it out of the prototype phase without significant faults.

[@rocketplane8862]

One of the things I found fascinating when looking up the H-8 Allegheny vs. the Big Boy was the difference in axle loading. With only six driven axles to the Big Boy's eight, the H-8 must have absolutely pounded the rails it ran on. Either that or C&O had really beefy trackage. Also, it's no surprise it out-powered the Big Boy with the 6-axle trailing truck to support the firebox from hell. More coal bed = more power!

[@commissarcarl1700]

So while the axle loading was really high, because the rods were smaller than the ones on the H7s (2-8-8-2) and T-1s (2-10-4) they replaced they were overall kinder to the rails because they had less hammer-blow.

[@richardarcher3435]

Brilliant, thank you. I always understood it was the biggest mass produced steam locomotive in terms of number of wheels and I presumed length. I knew there had been some bigger one offs, but I think some of the locos you mentioned were also mass produced.

[@temmieAckkerman]

Big boy will always be the Biggest boi in my heart~

[@jackgamer6307]

I really felt like UP's 8080, the coal turbine abomination of an experimental locomotive it is was bigger than bigboy

[@johnnycee5179]

I remember you! I watched a video of you starting up a locomotive and everything involved, it was very good. The PRR S1 is like 2 or 3 feet bigger than big boy. Pennsylvania railroad, could travel up to 120 mph, per wikipedia. Wikipedia is not the most accurate gor sure but that's what it said.

[@cerneysmallengines]

I'm still hopeful that that a DMIR Yellowstone will be restored to operating condition at some point. Just need to win the powerball.

[@katieneubaum4284]

Hey there Hyce! What’s the song you use for your end credits? It’s got so much soul I just gotta know so I can download it.

[@The_wolf_bikes]

If you think of it a unicycle/ bigwhel or penny farthing is a great example of crank size to wheel size bicycles kinda do it to just has extra it a great way of showcasing driver size

[@KosaiAvonej]

I might be wrong in this statement but if I recall correctly a lot of these massive articulated engines where purpose built for a certain service and in some cases even just a specific train (N&W Y6 specifically hauling some of the longest coal trains ever marshalled in their time) which is why so few where produced whereas there’s a myriad of serialized Baldwin and Alco’s you could find that saw hundreds of the exact same standardized model built for various railroads. Also a lot of them had only specific places and track lines they could operate due to their weight, so they’re completely useless anywhere else.

[@RobertCraft-re5sf]

Yaaaa pleaee do videos on those other crazy locomotives.

[@ivanoffw]

One thing that people forget, the reason for these big locomotives was an effort by the railroads to decrease labor costs. Instead of having many shorter trains pulled by a crew, or a longer train pulled by two locomotives, each with their own crew, you could just hire one crew to haul a much longer or heavier train. But I am sure that seeing the Big Boy steam past in front of you must be a site to behold.

[@antiussentiment]

Cool work. You should do a modern units version of this. Then the algorithm - and the rest of the world - can enjoy this too.

[@KidarWolf]

Interesting video. I wonder what we'd learn from a video about locomotives with the greatest tractive effort, and whether any little surprises would pop up in such a discussion?

[@AndrewTheRocketCityRailfan4014]

It’s important to mention that the Big Boys and mallets were built for two different purposes. The former for hauling faster loads over long distances through vast deserts, the layers for slower moves in often more densely populated regions than that of Wyoming, Utah, and Colorado where the Big Boys worked. Still what they were capable of is hard to beat, even by simple articulateds built for fast freights Also those lengthy ones were turbines. And the S1 tenderless was shorter than a tenderless big boy

[@heavyhauler9219]

The way I see it, it is the biggest "mass" produced locomotive, as it had more than a handful and it has not only stationary examples but one still opperational, compared to the s1 being a 1 of 1 with it having been scrapped

[@dzymslizzy3641]

Fascinating! Another possible category: Biggest ever made by a particular factory?