The Sanitization of Dragon Age in The Veilguard

[@BigDanGaming]

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[@robertagren9360]

Hopefully oranges will be safe from apples.

[@Alwaysttango]

Hey Dan you should have a look at the video user CineGame made piecing together the original story of da4 through the artbook. It was good and felt like dragon age.

[@TiberiumViking_777]

If Your interested In a new game Big Dan, try out Crusader Kings III or Hearts of Iron IV.

[@tempestflare4339]

Honestly I think the pirate thing is a point of change after what happened in dragon age 2 seriously if they're putting up consultants that means they don't want to repeat of what happened (come on man please acknowledge that that's at least a possibility!)

[@16Vagabond]

In the game files, it was datamined that there were going to be two world state options for Isabella's past, and it would determine how she looks and acts in Veilguard Option 1: dyed black hair , rogue-ish Isabela, if in the past Hawke sold her out / didn't have high enough approval for her to come back. She'd still be a cutthroat who doesn't trust people much. Option 2: natural greying hair, more "settled" Isabela, if in the past Hawke got her to come back and realize she could be a better person. She'd be friendlier and more approachable. I guess they scrapped that when they fired most of the OG writers during developmen

[@tredausmaxima]

So you mean to tell me they actually we're to include save import??!

[@2Btoobee]

@@tredausmaxima yup, the current devs can say a bunch of corpo shyt, but in reality, their current team just can't work properly in making a complex gameplay/system after removing the veterans (aside from the shyt writing)

[@TheIcarusEffect]

@@2Btoobeedo we know why BioWare/EA fired the veteran devs to begin with?

[@Shadowwand]

​@TheIcarusEffect they were too expensive to keep employed. EA need to show they cut costs to their shareholders, so expensive old talent was the first to go. Idk who keeps buying EA games, but aside from Mass Effect collection, I haven't bought any ea games Ina while

[@antonjohansson3819]

I actually let them take Isabella last run, she was the person who started this whole mess. I also played on Nightmare and didnt have enough consumables to make it through the whole fight.

[@SlanderedGaming]

Good lord, I literally just dropped a review today talking about this same shit. I don't understand how the Crows history NEVER comes up.

[@mattmark94]

Because the leaders of the Crows are now POCs and we can't have them be evil, only white men are bad according to Bioware.

[@katytavegia8661]

And Tevinter with NO blood magic. It's like they never played the original games. Oh, wait...

[@stephenlewis6922]

I just finished your review and this popped up!

[@spellandshield]

Are you really that surprised? I'm not...

[@SlanderedGaming]

@@spellandshield I know I shouldn’t be.

[@TheFDream]

It's good to see real fans acknowledge that the people in charge have lost the plot in what made them great

[@Tebodaman]

I’m a real fan of DA since origins and I don’t consider this to be that bad of a game. It’s got some flaws but it was fun. No one likes a gatekeeper of a multi million dollar franchise

[@NormalPersonCommenting]

@@Tebodaman No one likes a shill for a multi-million dollar corpo product. People didn't buy the slop, but you did. Got it. We now know your standards. Your boos mean nothing, we've seen what makes you cheer.

[@TheFDream]

@@Tebodaman You must be the modern audience i have been hearing about. how many pushups should i do because i misgendered you?

[@TheFDream]

@@NormalPersonCommenting Based

[@AlexRye-sv6no]

​@@Tebodamanthere is nothing fun about this game. The combat is mind numbingly boring, the environments are pathetic, the writing is atrocious and the graphics are maybe the only redeeming factor. Stop defending dogshit products churned out by corpos just because the franchise was once good

[@nananderson7259]

Can you imagine if being a Crow opened up options for conflict with Lucanis? He's part of the actual family, born into the Privileged Part of the Crows - Rook was an orphaned slave, likely taken quite young. If they'd kept to the original script for Crows it could've opened up great drama with Lucanis who could be presently as blindly loyal while not knowing how cruel the order is to those who aren't born lucky. But no. We just argue about coffee 🙄

[@Shadowwand]

Reminds me of Miranda from ME2. Cheerleading how great it is to be a crow when he was born into the family versus you the pawn they use to make power plays

[@Canadian_Zac]

Isabella's guys avoiding stealing any cultural objects could be played up really well Like someone ask about it, and Isabella answer 'Well the one time I DID steal a cultural artefact, I nearly caused a war with the Qunari. So they're WAY more trouble than they're worth. better to get a random pot and talk it up as being something important to some chumps' But still doing all the usual crime and theft. Just avoiding cultural artefacts because she's seen how far some people will go to get those back

[@thegrumpyraccoon]

She just did ten push-ups in front of Arishok and all was forgiven

[@Salzgard]

@@thegrumpyraccoon maybe your isabella was forgiven. mine got taken away by the quanari

[@jonathandear4914]

its amazing how a simple solution like this isnt in the game

[@C0ldFlame2682]

Or even change depending on if Isabella was taken or not, or if she doesn't show back up with the book at all because if I remember right that could happen. So maybe she returns it, gets forgiven, now doesn't take cultural stuff, or returns it, gets taken away and escapes or whatever and she doesn't care what she takes as long as she gets paid. All those little nuances would have added so much to it.

[@pilosopino23]

Unless you sell Isabella out, but that choice isnt even considered is it?

[@orarinnsnorrason4614]

You forgot one of the most disturbing quests in DAO. Connor son of the Arl of Redcliffe and Isolde has been possessed. You can ofc save him and everyone's happy. But if you're evil/cruel you can let his mother kill her child or you can refuse and kill him yourself. There's actually plenty of ways to do this quest. Also right after you confront Connor he's seen letting the Steward of the castle dance for him in mockery. DAO was really dark man.

[@Kylesico912x]

Heck, you can sacrifice her and then Connor for blood magic for a nice time with a desire demon. It’s sad how far DA has fallen.

[@JimmyMon666]

I don't see killing Connor as evil. I stand by this. With the mother alive she can just make more children anyways. Back in those days (yes it's fantasy, but clearly has middle ages vibes), many children died in childhood anyways. This would be no different. Not all children were expected to make it to adulthood. If they got a disease, and their immune system wasn't strong enough, they died. By killing the mother, Eamon would not be able to have any more children that could one day take his place as Arl. The choice is only made dramatic by modern day morals where many parents only have one child, and that child is precious and should be protected at all costs. This was not always the case. Weak children in the old days often did not make it.

[@Vitapantern]

If you serious you have a very wicked point of view, very easy for you to say if you have no children of your own and you only care about you self like most modern people do, all about you & money even if it means hurting a brother or sister. In the old times they lost children easier then today, they also cared slot more then todays society where you are promodet to just fuck around and abort children left and right, brainwashing eveyone and saying it’s not a real human life untill it’s outside of the womb. In the old days people where closer to God so if you believe in God you Believe in all humans are equal and loved. You would absolutly not delete a life just because you want to orgasm.

[@orarinnsnorrason4614]

​@@JimmyMon666 I understand. Back in those days tho people didn't kill children out of cruelty. They did it due to nessicity (most of the time due to too many mouths to feed). I'd still think it an act of cruelty imo.

[@AvengerAtIlipa]

One of the ways to "save" Connor involves Blood Magic, and places all of your trust in the exact same blood mage who caused the disaster in the first place. Isolde also dies if you choose this path. If you choose to go to the Circle to find mages that way, you are leaving the castle and the entire village defenseless for days, giving the demon the chance to cause more havoc. Even though it turns out good in the end, you have no way to know that on your first playthrough. Killing Connor is presented as the safest and most direct method.

[@bangslamwham88]

Another thing that has been completely wiped away is the prejudice against elves. Now it seems like everyone is cool with elves in Thedas.

[@Psyche0delic]

Mages too. Dragon Age has always been a "elves and mages are second-class citizens, to be feared, taken advantage of, locked away, or enslaved" type of game. But in the Veilguard, being elf and/or a mage is totally okay and there is no prejudice against either. And it does not even try to explain why there is no prejudice against elves or mages. It just ignores that there ever was any. The mage rebellion and circle tower imprisonment are not mentioned once. Elves are not referred to as "knife-ears", nor are they just expected upon sight to be servants or slaves. This completely cheapens all of the past games' lore and characters; especially Solas' and other characters' plight like Anders' and Fenris', etc. who tried so hard to help elves or mages, which is the core theme in the damn game! It is like EA fired all of the Gen X people who did the first 3 games, and hired on a bunch of Zillenials who could not find their way outside a paper bag without a GPS.

[@revanscript]

​@@Psyche0delic Mages make sense, the game takes place mostly in the North and the situation with mages always was very different there.

[@xenon8117]

In a time where elvhen gods are fucking shit up as well. Witcher 3 showcased this so much better. "Hatred and prejudice will never be eradicated. And witch hunts will never be about witches. To have a scapegoat, that's the key. Humans always fear the alien, the odd. Once the mages had left Novigrad, folk turned their anger against the other races. And as they have for ages, branded their neighbours their greatest foes." The witcher 3 is regaarded as one of the best games ever released and had a lot of horrible dark shit in it. Why do they think we want everything dumbed down and sanitised now?

[@enoughisenough4-d3h]

​@@revanscript. No, it doesn't make sense. The only place where mages are a common sight is Tevinter, not EVERYWHERE in Northern Thedas. Antiva, Nevarra, Rivain and the Anderfels are still part of the Andrastian Chantry led by Divine Victoria.

[@revanscript]

​@@enoughisenough4-d3h Rivain? Wut? Nevara is a home of Mortalitasi and mages have huge influence there. Also, the only place we visit is Necropolis. Not sure about Antiva, but I guess they have much more important problems to deal with in this game.

[@TheDarkbluerock]

Veilguard feels like an alcohol free beer or a decaf coffee. You can drink it, but I'd rather have it with the dark essence that made it so great.

[@JinSpectre]

This…is exactly how I feel about this game and I never knew how to put it into words until you did 😭😭😭

[@Polomance862]

It's not beer if it doesn't have alcohol in it. You're drinking piss water.

[@MOMO-m0m0]

Wow, this is quite literally the best way to put it.

[@slushbrain8495]

@TheDarkbluerock dawggg this is exactly how I feel. Purrrfect analogy

[@mammozdzierzwdupie]

Nah, you can find some fancy 0% craft beer that tastes greatly but this game is inexcusably bad at it's core. People bring political topics on, but it goes way way deeper than that.

[@Hunter-zf7rt]

It's funny now, looking back at those who said dragon age was never dark fantasy and that we aren't real fans.

[@ItsJustTeddington]

It's really stupid how they conflate a few moments of levity here and there to "SEE? DRAGON AGE WAS NEVER SERIOUS!!!!"

[@Kornelius707]

Right, at least play the first two games. Listen to the soundtrack even, dark fantasy is in dragon age's soul.

[@Hunter-zf7rt]

@@ItsJustTeddington exactly, just because there is comedy and funny dialogue here and there, doesn't mean it can't be serious.There are a lot of dark games(e.g. the older fallouts, the Witcher series,mass effect,etc) that have comedy but are still dark games.

[@Hunter-zf7rt]

@@Kornelius707 I remember the first messed up thing I saw the abominations in the mage tower and the blood magic used.And the music fit the tone so well, same when you first encounter the brood mother.They nailed those music ques.

[@STEVEYTHEEXEEVEE]

that's their cycled response to anything here. "X was always woke! you were never fans" "X was always Y!" they get refuted and then cower behind their social media presence, try and disrail the thread, try to silence you with reports for "hate speech" or ignore you and then keep repeating the same arguement to the next person DESPITE getting disproven.

[@MelissaW1103]

YES!!! It annoys me that there's no conflict with your race either. In inquisition, you got negative court approval just for being dalish, yet in this, your race doesn't matter.

[@gimmeboobes]

Dalish, Dwarf and Qunari. The Orlesians, especially the hoity toity nobility, were racists and unapologetic about it.

[@BBS-dl1lt]

I mean it’s well established in dragon age lore that the racism against elves is a problem in southern Thedas. We’ve been aware of elven magisters in Tevinter since dragon age 2.

[@nobodyelse-m6b]

Just like in BG3, apart from the obvious physical differences, every "race" is basically a reskinned version of humans. I mean, this game has black and asian elves ffs. There's no lore reason behind it and other people will simply ask "why does that bother you?" when you question it, as if the question itself is a racist dogwhistle.

[@mammozdzierzwdupie]

@@nobodyelse-m6b not really. BG3 has dragonborns, tieflings and so on. Each race brings to the table some racial bonuses, affecting the build you can create in a most rpg way. More of it, being drow opens you new options to avoid encounters or being halfling/gnome makes you fit into small spaces so you can enter new rooms but at the same time you get smaller range to move during turn based combat. And this is just a few things, there are more of it. On the other hand, races in the veilguard are purely cosmetic thing. Not perks, nothing. Doesn't affect fights. Everyone acts the same towards rook of any race. edit: I forgot dwarf cannot be mages. But, after retcon, next game (if there will be any heheh) surely will "fix" this one. Tbh each class there plays like mage now anyway. Screen gets constantly bloated with the flashy effects and hits have no weight. Hack and slash. And flash.

[@nobodyelse-m6b]

@@mammozdzierzwdupie Except every race behaves and talks like humans. There's literally no nuances between all of them except for different physical traits. Replace any non-human NPC or characters with humans and you still won't find any difference. Even the Githyanki aren't that dissimilar to humans and they're supposed to be otherworldly. Sure each playable races have their own combat quirks but they still aren't that much indistinguishable to humans. Remember that elves don't actually sleep but instead fell into a meditative state? Yeah, this mechanic doesn't appear in BG3 because it's too cumbersome in a video game and Larian preferred to simply streamlined the races closer to humans. Better yet, every race can and will be sexually attracted to each other, which is dumb in my opinion. Honestly, that the main problem with fictional non-human characters. Most writers are too much of a pussy to give them their own traits that's exclusive to them because they worry that the audience can't relate to them, so while those characters might have some non-human physical trait like horns or some shit, they still behave and talks like humans. That's like if Necrons from WH40K talks like humans when they're supposed to be soulless mechanical robots.

[@slushbrain8495]

I posted on the dragon age reddit and got banned for saying tash is the worst written character in bioware history. It had 3k likes before ban.

[@PeteTheGrouch]

Based. ;-)

[@biluv]

they dont want you to burst their bubble

[@slushbrain8495]

@@biluv sounds about right. That reddit is an echo chamber.

[@AvengerAtIlipa]

Taash is supposed to be the most powerful Qunari companion in the series, but they do not live up to the hype at all. Can you imagine if Sten and Iron Bull's personal quests were about eating dinner with their parents (which don't exist in the Qun btw)?

[@slushbrain8495]

@AvengerAtIlipa lmaoo 🤣. Bruh I know right. I didn't beat the game yet. But I haven't done any of her quest cause she soo insufferable.

[@OverlyEpux]

I love when we get a shit RPG so Big dan can absolutely tear it apart for WEEKS

[@BodaciousDerb]

I love it because hes so good at criticism

[@Ariyala]

​@@BodaciousDerbI appreciate the fact that he is willing to be critical of the franchise despite how much he enjoys it. So many Dragon Age creators won't breathe a single world against this mess

[@BodaciousDerb]

@Ariyala ik its so annoying how everyone is calling it a 6/10 game like no something like Watchdogs Legion is a 6/10 its not the best game but you can easily get some dumb fun from it. Veilguard barely reaches a 4. I played the day it came out and it only took me 2 hours to realize how shallow the combat was and how restrictive and cramped the environments were even by linear gane standards and yet these are 2 of Veilguard defenders biggest positive points. It feels like the gameplay and environments werent touched since the game was planned as a live-service yet all the KZbin reviews praise the gameplay and environments. Treviso and other such hub areas use the old "put people in doorways to show you cant go there" which hasnt been the norm in years because of how bad it looks. I think people are mistaking graphic fidelity with good environments. Especially KZbin reviewers.

[@Ariyala]

@@BodaciousDerb I finished it, managed to 100% the trophies in a single playthrough (something I've never managed to do with a DA game,) put it down, was sad for a few days, then jumped back to Inquisition and fanfiction that has infinitely better writing

[@BodaciousDerb]

@Ariyala they completely disregard lore AND the past games its absolutely shameful

[@LokiTheAnsuz]

And don't forget they even made Dorian apologize for saying favorable things about slavery in DAI. They made him apologize in the codex!!! They deliberately eliminated any nuance everywhere...

[@r.e.z9428]

I’m not surprised.

[@drownzi]

wow 🙄 of course they make him apologize. insane.

[@LokiTheAnsuz]

@@drownzi and it's a very modern apology. It has "I'm ashamed", "thank you for challenging my views" and everything 😖

[@BBS-dl1lt]

being against slavery is a bad thing…?

[@AvengerAtIlipa]

​@@BBS-dl1ltThe character development wasn't earned. We don't even get to see it.

[@Lisa45423]

I hope chasing that modern audience and abandoning Dragons Age fans was worth it for BioWare.

[@MrGeorgFTW]

If it doesn't meet sales targets, you know they'll blame consumers / the market rather than reflecting on their decisions.

[@DudeKosh]

Been a fan since Origins and I loved Veilguard so

[@davidradach9311]

Somehow, I doubt that it is. They fell into the same trap Star Wars did with its latest series.

[@oddersisadog]

@@DudeKosh you and the other 100 people out there.

[@irontarkus190]

@@DudeKosh Big doubt. DEI fan right here. GTFO we don't need woke slop in video games or people who support it. Remember kids, GATEKEEP YOUR HOBBIES : )

[@georgehouliaras7239]

Bioware: *releases Veilguard and it's shit* Big Dan: So you have chosen... Death.

[@DarkBrandon77]

BioWare is dead to me. 10 years waiting for this garbage

[@Xivinux]

You can thank EA for that. They ruined BioWare and DICE for a quick buck. If EA gave them time, we would have had amazing RPG's and Mil Shooters

[@JT-mt6ku]

I am so tired of nepotism hires that are fresh out of UC Berkeley with an English degree. Its so obvious this garbage was written by people who spend every day of their lives on reddit talking about pronouns and discussing character shipping from children's shows.

[@mufasaiam7794]

This game is a prime example of games being made for critics rather than gamers. Everything about it is so sterilized so it never offends anybody so it makes sense why critics love it.

[@dirkbsilver9260]

Origins had an amazing way of ahowing class distinctions. The dwarven Dust Town was incredible in showing how society can be stratified. Same with the Alienages with how racial divisions can cut deep in a society but those living in it can find some balance in life. Same for DA2 and all the districts of Kirkwall gave us a clear vision of a world that is broken by race, class, and position.

[@Jjrmtv]

amazing that a game could open one's eyes about others viewpoints and experience. it was both overt and subtle. that's what I love about DAO- it allows one to look inward at one's own prejudices and bias

[@dirkbsilver9260]

@Jjrmtv true. Very true.

[@sizablekoala6879]

Someone best described it to me as "a decent young adult fantasy novel you'd find in your high school library." Which is fine if that is your target demographic, but the kids who were in high school when they played Inquisition are now in their mid to late 20s.

[@mihmo2663]

I was 26 when DAO came out, I’m 41 now.

[@sizablekoala6879]

@mihmo2663 And I'm sure you don't care for stories targeted at a younger audience. I'm 32, and I wouldn't want Shepard to return to fight an even bigger threat than the Reapers while making MCU like quips.

[@bizmonkey007]

I’m wondering why BioWare went in this direction, tonally. I thought Dark Fantasy was popular, especially in the wake of GoT, but apparently not. Dragon Age isn’t the only RPG that pivoted away from Dark Fantasy - Avowed initially had a harder fantasy setting in its early trailers but it’s now looking much more toned down.

[@JimmyMon666]

I'm 51 and loved the Dragon Age series. But this game clearly is not in my demographic.

[@sizablekoala6879]

@bizmonkey007 Maybe Fortnite? The problem is that when something gets that popular, everyone chases that trend. Like when CoD got big and every shooter had to be a military one. Which has been Bioware's problem for the longest time. Every game for awhile feels like a trend chaser rather than having its own vision.

[@seresmarkus5690]

"culturally sensitive pirates" 😂 sounds like some parody out of a South Park episode or some such thing

[@gorelash9056]

That would be a brilliant irony! But they're actually serious about it 😂

[@GameHunterDeathhunter]

And i see people go "veilguard is still dark" and its just the blight town (the mayor who sold out his town but still looks lame due to the art) and a character in a pool of blood..... which is like ok.... not that dark, pool of blood in video games is nothing these days.

[@donglegs]

The Hossberg Wetlands area is absolutely beautiful and really dark. Some of the environments’ grotesqueness are beaten only by the broodmother in DAO. It’s the writing and themes that detract from that, although I think people overstate how dark the other games are.

[@GameHunterDeathhunter]

@donglegs true DA ain't that crazy super super dark, granted you can make it darker with your choices lol. But in comparison to veil ya...... they clearly don't want to go over a line anywhere or make a world where something we find bad but normal/good in theirs like slavery and the characters even go ya its normal we can't police them. Or like the dark spawn and the blight just feels too magic I guess? Like first game it looks and felt like a war and slow wave of death. This one ya its like the super death star level now, but just ehhh I guess, cause the game just waste time on Disney time lool

[@NihlusN7]

Wait... You can recruit Zevran? Just kidding, but it's funny that DA: Origins gives me the choice of killing a potential companion and in Veilguard you're a glorified therapist

[@steelbear2063]

I always kill Zevran and Sten. Just makes sense. Zevran is the assassin coming for your head, who would ever think "yeah I'll recruit him and let him be near with all his weapons, I'm sure abandoning his life for me is no big deal" - I mean yeah it works in the game, but without the meta knowledge it's a baffling choice. And Sten - well he's a Qunari. Fuck the Qunari. But besides that - "yeah let me help the guy who butchered the previous group of people that helped him, what could go wrong"

[@NihlusN7]

@steelbear2063 you can also leave him there in the cage if you want. You have some choices with the companions. I think Morrigan is insufferable when I'm playing a "lawful good" character so I can send her away. Having options is cool

[@katehaha5504]

some progress *sigh*

[@Aurilndia]

I like how you show a clip of Taash when talking about that we must recruit our companions and cant just send them away. 😂

[@GiantTalkingTree]

Every single line Tash had made me want to turn off the game. Even minor ones between scenes like "they are doing it" I was just yelling stfu at my screen. I'm not even all the way through the story yet. It's just really hard to stomach it.

[@Aurilndia]

@GiantTalkingTree She is such a annoying brat, didnt feel sorry for her when she died on my run. And the fact that only what was needed was some fireworks from mage to end her, lol. 😂

[@kittyspotatoes]

@@Aurilndia i dont think this is the character Taash' fault for appearing the way they are in game. I do see what story arc they wanted to do with them and it's a great one! Just... very poorly and awkwardly executed in general that it doesn't fit the whole fantasy thing :/ I don't get it, why the people who approved or pushed for this kind of writing made it so hard to properly feel for a character. Like you should be able to support a friend and still call them out - because that's exactly what a person who cares would do. With the companions, we can just keep agreeing with them 🥲

[@asarishepard8171]

They only give you the super nice and sorta nice options with her, choices my ass 😂 there was no regenade style options to verbally berate her😂

[@Aurilndia]

@@asarishepard8171 Only not nice thing you can do to her is to not complete her quests or purposely send her against something she is not used to fight with by the end, and watch how she will not make it. :D

[@kpsk8031]

I don't see Veilguard as a Dragon Age game. It's a re-skin of "Heroes of Apsdivyne", a mobile fantasy action game no one asked for.

[@morgandidomizio2333]

Exactly. The game is like a thin dragon age shell covering something else entirely. It sucks so bad

[@pylvo]

I really miss the old dragon age. I’m currently in the Emmerich recruitment mission and the most common question I’ve had is, did the devs even play earlier games in the series. What happened to darkspawn broodmothers, it’s not like you get the blight and turn into a hurlock. What happened to the qunari? DAO: You are a woman and yet you fight. Women are not warriors, so one of those statements must be false. We do not choose, we just are. DA2: We’re taking over, you have two choices, submit to the qun or die. DAI: ”At least a bastard knows who his mother was, puts one up on you qunari” ”Die you tal vasoth” DAVG: ”It’s not like the Qun is a prison, you can leave if you want to.” Hell the whole trespasser DLC was about how despite going to cause an apocalypse, Solas doesn’t want the rest of the world to spend it’s last years under qunari occupation because they are so dogmatically authoritarian and oppressive civilization. But in veilguard they had to change it so it’s just the antaam who are doing the invading and oppressing after defecting from the qun.

[@misterwolf3817]

I am not hopeful anymore about Mass Effect Epsilon

[@krajicsek13]

Hopefully Exodus becomes the new Mass Effect

[@animejunkie4373]

No morality choices damn you BioWare guess I’ll be playing BG3 for the next 20 years then

[@diomed96]

And it isn't that much of a stretch considering modders now make new locations and quests mods. Hopefully it'll get close to Skyrim level of modding

[@animejunkie4373]

@ I don’t doubt that bg3 modding will be Skyrim level

[@Unonomouse]

I despised how the Wardens were portrayed in this game. The entire faction was utterly clueless and had no real leadership or organisation.

[@Purplepig8]

After finishing The Veilguard, I decided to replay Mass Effect: Andromeda because I remembered you couldn't really be evil/ruthless in that game either. Even so, I had more fun playing Andromeda because you can at least make tough decisions where each option has pros and cons. I didn't ever have to stop and think about my decisions in The Veilguard because any option seemed fine.

[@C0ldFlame2682]

Imagine if we got to see Fenris as a shadow dragon or slave depending how that went down. Or the lords are more greedy or not depending on what happens with Isabella. They could have flushed it out so much.

[@gorelash9056]

If we could give the Veilguard an award for anything, it would have to be "most wasted potential" it's fucking tragic to think how amazing this game could have been and how many incredible possibilities they were just sitting on and squandered all of them.

[@John-pe7nf]

R.I.P DreadWolf Shame we will never see a 4th DragonAge 😢

[@BunnychanFarabee]

Thank you for at least taking a critical look at this from the perspective of a fan of the series and narrative instead of just attacking gender politics. Truly a gentleman and a scholar.

[@johnyoung8745]

There’s plenty to criticize without getting into the culture war nonsense. Game has been dumbed down beyond recognition

[@skynet0912]

Veilguard is as much dark fantasy, as an episode of the Goosebumps TV show is a horror movie...

[@GiantTalkingTree]

So true 😆

[@ShadowMokujin]

Veilguard isn't dragon age

[@SeventhheavenDK]

It really isn't.

[@sleepyzzz7055]

It looks like a mobile game....

[@salamantics]

Never stop, dan. This game deserves to get dogpiled

[@salamantics]

also you mentioned how the slaves in veilguard don't have lyrium tattoos, is that typical amongst tevinter slaves? I thought that was unique to fenris.

[@salamantics]

Btw the codex entry that taash writes about sexuality is written like a caveman. I legit thought it was a second character with developmental problems. Taash writes like they were lobotomized.

[@magicdog9523]

@@salamantics Neither typical nor unique. Iirc Fenris says that they're relatively rare and quite costly, and Danarius wants his investment back. They're probably not just going to hand every old slave that kind of power.

[@salamantics]

@@magicdog9523 Ah so definitely not being used on the average wine servant. especially not one who you're willing to sacrifice. Thanks for the info!

[@evilkid9493]

I got hooked with DA at the start of Origins, with the narration about the grey wardens, the blight, AND the golden/black city. Just seeing reading Threnodies 8:13 in the opening made me so interested in the world...made me sad when all of those got sidelined and everything became too elfy in Inquisition (but I still liked the game). With Veilguard tho, it's just so far removed from DA's lore. It feels more like a family-friendly game that happens to take inspiration from DAI while avoiding DAO altogether.

[@Rhysdux]

It's like corporate Dragon Age fanfic!

[@evilkid9493]

@Rhysdux not sure if they're fan enough for it to be a fanfic...but a corpofic for sure :)

[@nickolasrayhortontyler3446]

It Is the single worst decision and destruction of what people loved in a game series. They destroyed everything we worked and built through the series and books and games😢 it's like nothing is sacred to them only what they want and desire.

[@Rhysdux]

@@nickolasrayhortontyler3446 I agree completely.

[@jizamkizam9611]

I was going to give you a detailed response but for some reason my dialogue options only let me say: YOUR So RIGHT!, Maybe your right, or DAMN IT MAN YOUR RIGHT!!

[@GeraltofRivia22]

This would be like the next Mass Effect game being set in Batarian space and completely whitewashing their whole society being based on slavery and authoritarianism.

[@dixienormus2802]

Watching the old lore clips you used, like Zevran's adoption into the crows or Dorian's indifference to the social norm of slavery in Tevinter, felt like a warm blanket of nostalgia in the cold blizzard that is The Veilguard's modern writing.

[@happydog6577]

It's sad seeing how far Dragon age has fallen.

[@TheRealWALLABI]

"In Veilguard you have to support all your companions in every single thing that they do, you can't disagree with them on anything". Yep, sounds like 2024...

[@lelouche25]

My favorite argument someone made once was that DAO wasn't that "dark." Like bro, I could sell a child's soul to a demon, I could taint the ashes of Andraste the greatest prophet. I have So many opportunities to sell people's souls to demons lol. I can murder my way through much.

[@goblinpapi]

I appreciate that you're talking about very real problems. Im tired of seeing "you think its woke therefore you dont like it" like ????

[@MrShadownetwork]

Even though it being woke is the sole reason it has these problems, no really if these people were truly focused on just making a good follow up game to the older games and not their bs political talking points most of these problems wouldn’t be here

[@goblinpapi]

@MrShadownetwork In DA:O your character could be gay, zevran was bisexual, the issues the Dalish face bring up themes of systemic oppression especially city elves. Are those not "Woke" themes? People dismissing critiques of this game under the guise of "you just hate woke themes" is dishonest and a cop out.

[@johnyoung8745]

@@goblinpapi exactly I’m a progressive and don’t mind woke politics in games. What I do mind is how the gameplay systems have been dumbed down

[@MrShadownetwork]

@ idk know who YOU are talking to but being woke isn’t about just having a gay character it’s having that gay character steals the whole show just solely because his gay

[@Vesp3r1987]

Back in Origins even the Gray Wardens were... well... morally gray. Remember past Wardens rebelled against the king even if one of their rules is to stay away from politics. During that time some even used blood magic. Even Duncan is not above questionable choices... like killing those who get cold feet about the joining. And lets not forget they were essentially the faction that killed the Divine in inquisition (sorry about the 10 y.o. spoiler) Back in Origins every faction was morally gray. Dwarven Nobility, Dwarven Commoners, Shaperate, Loghain, Emon's wife, Morrigan.. In DA2 we still see some of this with quests where you have to either purge some apostates or let the few that survive escape... just to see it was bad choice either way In Inquisition even if i like the game i cant think of anything on the scale of what i already said... you could atleast walk to a companion and tell them "GTFO" though... in Veilguard you cant even do that

[@christianromero1390]

Disney Presents Dragon Age The Veilguard. Gone is the nuanced dark fantasy that rivaled the Witcher franchise. In its place is a whimsically family-friendly high fantasy game that tries to imitate the Marvel Cinematic Universe.

[@jediron169]

I think you do put it perfect, this is just the Sanitization and Corpitizaion of Story Telling and video games. When you try to appeal everyone, and not offend anyone, you end up turning everyone off from your product.

[@loodeedoo560]

The reapers were so good they ended the Dragon Age franchise as well. Bioware is now indoctrinated.

[@justinstoll4955]

It's as if the writers of fallout 4 and starfield wrote the story for this game, and they don't understand what an RPG is. All Veilguard did was make me want to play the older games, which is an increasing trend with modern games. BG3:seems to be the outlier not the trend as RPGs go.

[@jeangentry6656]

Games like AC Odessey and RDR2 were not afraid to present slavery has part of the game world while openly denouncing it. Now, just 5/6 yrs later, we have the least dark, edgeless M rated game around in recent memory. Writing Woes aside, why make an M rated game if they aren't willing to feature or explore dark themes?

[@eugeneoisten9409]

This isn't a Dragon's Age Game, let alone an RPG!! It's a F'n ...friendship simulation...

[@Marshal_Dunnik]

Dragon Age: Safe Space

[@dangdoggydog]

Remember when you could sacrifice a bunch of elves for +1 constitution? Morrigan remembers

[@Cyryvy]

I'm ready to throw this at the team and shout "THIS ISN'T DRAGON AGE!"

[@panbouk]

Its the same as in FFVII Remake. One of many things they changed is that you didn't blow up the first reactor. Shinra did it. Because God forbid if you actually participated in a terrorist attack and have to live with consequences of your actions. Now many games have to give you where your moral copmass stands. Also for Veilguard is not about only not having an evil or moraly grey otpion in the dialogues... For example arguing with someone is neither of those, yet we did not even have that

[@16Vagabond]

If this were dragon age origins you'd probably have an option to let the gloom howler have the griffons in exchange for some boon Hand over Taash to the Dragon King Help Anaris complete the ritual in exchange for help against the Evanuris etc etc

[@justinstoll4955]

A band of theifs who have a consultant to see that they don't steal anything that may be seen as cultural appropriation and, thus, offensive, is one of the funniest pieces of dumb writing I've heard in a while. What a trainwreck of writing this game sounds like.

[@evilpac2327]

Dan going through his renegade arc. They should have put more evil options in game.

[@rizkisoekartono454]

Inquisition: Perhaps I treated you too harshly

[@MarwolfAeducan]

Hahah same

[@andersfrieden567]

"Unrecognisable hus of the franchise I once loved" , - I said exactly the same words, when I saw what they did with tge story, the gameplay and the lore in Veilguard.

[@SHIR0GANE]

MAN I could KISS you for saying all that about the crows! Oh my god I was so mad when some ppl on reddit argued and defended the way crows are presented in veilguard!

[@elredfox9151]

Since the art style we should have known was a red flag. One look at it and it looks like a Disney movie, and let's not talk about the kunaris... People are mocking that a DLC is being nominated for game of the year instead of this. Well the difference is that Shadow of the Erdtree is a game disgusted as a DLC while Failguard is a amalgamation of all that is wrong with the videogame industry disgusted as a game

[@johnyoung8745]

The name change and the reduction of number of party members, number of abilities and lack of being able to control other party members was huge red flag

[@xeon0998]

Please don't let them make another Mass Effect

[@Prince19912]

You nailed it. People are still trying to defend the game and outright denying the facts or suggesting that people should get with the times and not ask for more of what we got from Dragon Age Origins, 2, or even Inquisition. Wild, these new people

[@MidratsSnack]

Sipping iced coffee and watching Baldurs Gate 3 install 😊

[@dizetoot]

With Tevinter, moving away from the slave trade part, we learnt from Dorian in DAI that Tevinter is very much a class based society, with those who dont have magic treated as less than nothing, and we see nothing of that in datv. Very frustrating. While I don't think the lore is broken, there are some real gaps in the lore like the writers werent familiar with the previous games. I remember thinking the same thing with DAI and the introduction of Blackwall where it felt that the writers had forgotten what it meant to be a grey warden, but they hadn't - it was clever and knowledgeable writing. I kept hoping with datv that something similar would happen to show that they knew the history, but it didn't, it's just very poorly written.

[@Robin_TheArtist]

And the slave you find in Nevarra is not even elven lmao. He is literally just a human slave, which is even worse (i checked, no pointy ears)

[@IamSumfoo]

I got lucky. I didn’t preorder when I seen the combat style. I loathe hack and slash. I decided to wait for reviews when it was revealed that previous game decisions did not matter. I had so many playthroughs with different decisions because I loved the theory crafting. Then the reviews came out. Sad… but I at least saved money. lol.

[@Canadian_Zac]

To some level I understand the lack of evil options. The vast majority of players are trying for the good options. Work to get the best endings. So they figured 'why bother including these options. people only choose them to make youtube videos' But then... the good options mean nothing, cuz there's no alternative. It's an achievement to get a good ending in Origins, because you can mess up options. Get the Elves and Werewolves to work together. Yeah, that's objectively the best way But thats the hardest way to resolve it. Its far easier to side with one of them, and you need to pick the right things to say to get it to work out. Saving both the city and the fortress is the best thing. But its a risk. You need to explore the game and get all the upgrades to do it. But I think they just saw 'well everyone just wants the best endings and doesn't pick the evil options anyways' So just didn't bother including them at all

[@gorelash9056]

I play evil or morally grey characters almost exclusively. I usually end up making a good character just sp I can see the other game content I missed... It's never as much fun

[@itsCaptainEli]

It's nice to see a video that actually discusses all the weird BS Veilguard did to the world building.

[@haengeltheknight1212]

Honestly, Veilguard is a great game. A game for us to point and say: “see, that’s what DEI does to videogames, that is why we don’t want that”.

[@electric_boogaloo2114]

Meanwhile BG3: "Blood and guts and, Guts and blood and, Blood and guts and..."

[@sleepyzzz7055]

And Gales hand!

[@hanstenbrinke9207]

Yeah let's not talk about slavery. God forbid we offend the people whose great great great grandparents may have been slaves. Better we don't ever mention that again so that maybe our grandchildren won't even know about it. Because the best way to not repeat history is to forget it ever happened, right?

[@itsmethelightbringer2144]

This game appears to hold a deep disregard for its predecessors. The only decision that seems to carry even a slight impact is whether you romanced Solas in Inquisition. Remember choosing the next Divine? Irrelevant. Mages vs. Templars? Completely dismissed. The Hero of Ferelden? Hawke? They might as well not exist. It's so determined to carve out its own identity that it feels like it actively disrespects the legacy of the previous games-and, by extension, the fans who cherished them.

[@vanyadolly]

This is the biggest problem with DAV and why ultimately I can't see it as a continuation of the story. Like I can live with a subpar game in the series, but if it isn't even the same world we're in, what's the point? This is an entirely different Thedas and frankly, one I'm not interested in spending time in. Tervinter is the best example because opening the first page in the artbook, there's concept art of Minrathous from Joplin. It's the Minrathous we've been described in the last three games, and it's completely divorced from what's presented in DAV.

[@TheGrimmy]

Your party members will leave by the end depending on your decisions though...

[@Flatwing]

A husk of a series we all loved, Big Dan. We're right there with you.

[@tonware]

This feels like Saints Row 2022 all over again.

[@LordMuzhy]

Big Dan is cooking with this one!!! 🔥

[@asarishepard8171]

Bellara and emmrich are the most pixar looking of the bunch and i cant unsee it 😂

[@AlexRye-sv6no]

This game is such a disgrace. I always wanted a remake of origins but aint no way in hell i want that atter seeing how far this once legendary franchise has fallen

[@calvinmatthews1527]

This has been going for weeks on end Dan. You're ripping this game to ATOMS!

[@tonijhunter1]

I have to agree. I think veilguard is fine but there’s so much scrubbing from the series as I’m playing the game and it definitely feels like a shadow from what it once was.

[@crazytroll935]

You cant get angry if you convience yourself that Veilguard is not cannon

[@Ariyala]

Dan, Would love to see you do a comparison video between Veilguard's "Darkspawn" and Mass Effect 2 & 3's Reaper ground forces. There's no way I'm the only person who sees the identical AI and enemy type designs.

[@kfitz387]

It’s a damn shame how this series has evolved over time. Praying things turn around with the next Mass Effect but not getting my hopes up. Guess I’ll boot up ME legendary edition 😢

[@Icipher353]

You covered some of the weird writing decisions in Veilguard that contradict the existing lore. The unwillingness of the writers to acknowledge or address any of the dark aspects of the lore and to turn everyone into squeaky clean good guys just takes away so much depth from the setting and the characters interactions in it. Dragon Age is meant to be dark fantasy, but is seems that the devs wanted to make light/cute fantasy instead, but that's not what DA fans want. The way the game completely railroads you into playing a textbook goodguy and forces you to be agreeable with everyone is so aggravating and completely eliminates the scope for player choice and replayability. I have played all the previous Dragon Age games multiple times over the years to experience different story choices and paths, but with Veilguard there isn't really any point in replaying it, because the amount of story choice and roleplaying opportunities are so limited.

[@mihmo2663]

There’s no sense of culture anymore. Every country and culture is a melting pot of ethnicities and accents, even the Dalish, which avoid human cities so it makes NO sense that they’d have 5 different accents within the same clan. They made all the evil Tevinter people venitori and evil Qunari are all Antaam, so at the end of the game there’s world peace. Every country is good and the same.

[@smartgoku9048]

i remember the first i played DA2 i completely missed isabela. didn't know she was a comapnion until i walked into the hanged man at one point during my second playthrough.

[@staris3712]

Definitely whitewashed but add insult to injury as they could have include a bit of context for the changes to reference even indirectly to older games would have been a nice touch. Revealing the Crows getting the family treatment by an ex member returning to the fold and enacting the changes could easily have been added. Even just leaving it a nod to origin players that its Zevran that is responsible would have been a nice touch. The lack of slaves could likewise be explained as recationary by the city as a result of Inquisition Influence, lack of old unused buildings that were for the slave trade is still odd. Reference the slave trade has had to go underground because of the Inquisition could have gone a decent way to explain away some at least. Our characters across the now 4 games has had some big impacts so it would make some sense those influences went beyond just those games. So much missed opportunity to suggest it was those actions either as a good character or in reaction to a bad character play thru.

[@marcobettoni5376]

The more I hear of this product and the more I want to stay away from it. This is not a Dragon Age and the saga didn't deserve this.

[@bozomckhonk1916]

The way they handled the Crows was like a slap in Zevran's face tbh. I can't believe they'd portray a group of Assassins literally known for buying children like slaves and raising them as killers against their will, to a family of rebels.

[@darrahsweet8810]

Glad someone said it! I love dragon age… origins is probably my favourite game of all time… I was so excited for veilguard and I am so let down… I haven’t even finished it yet because it’s just not what I wanted so badly for it to be…

[@NIGHTWINGEX]

Playing it safe causes more controversy than actually making it a mature rated game lol

[@Left4Coragem]

A very common writing advice is, "if you write a book for everyone, you wrote a book for no one". By trying to make dragon age not dark fantasy and taking out all "offensive" and "problematic" topics and characters, bioware also took out the flair and soul of the setting.

[@mariusmitre492]

Not only that, but it ditched so many great characters from previous games. And the ones that returned got a bad treatment too. Varric and Solas only appear once in while for some dialogue, Morrigan is now all polite, friendly and willing to help you, without any goal of her own and her son Kieran being nowhere to be seen. And also Izabela who is a side character for a side character, and is here to lecture us about the great sin of misgendering someone, even if she used to be someone who didnt give a damn about offending anyone.

[@toeray5864]

It ASTOUNDS me that BioWare has forgotten what made games like ME2 classics. The players LOVE that you get to maneuver through the dark underbelly of the galaxy. You have to work with some really REALLY bad people because their goals and your goals overlap. Even "moral center" characters like Garrus and Tali have some bad traits. Garrus is a bad cop turned vigilante and Tali openly advocates for the destruction of all Geth. Sometimes you can't get the job done with just "good people" on your team. Sometimes we need our own bad people to protect us from something even worse. THAT'S what these games, movies, and shows have forgotten.

[@keiyangoshin3650]

I can’t wait to finish Dragon Age Veilguard so I can watch all of Dan’s ‘unhappy’ videos. 🤣

[@MrConredsX]

I hope Bioware is dissolved by EA before they took another crap on Mass Effect universe after Andromeda

[@LunaticReason]

I've been playing Inquistion while listening to other peoples playthrough of origin. I havent played through Veilguard so I can only speak of what I've seen in reviews. Something I find off putting is the manner of speaking in Veilguard this cutsey modern way. I also find the humor way different in that the originals had a very dry and sarcastic wit. Whereas Veilguards humor feels dumb downed. The companions where often antagonistic and passive aggressive at first I also noticed that with the original games they made you face hard moral decisions and allowed you to explore dark themes. You got to see both sides of every faction or group as good and evil depending on perspective. I have a feeling I know exactly they type of people these writers are ideologically and those types of people can only see one side as good, right or wrong and wont accept nuance or debate. Sad because I see potential with the new factions they introduced if only written as it should have which was adult themed whereaas Veilguard feels like it was targetted at overly sensitive children..