Biggest PBA outbursts PART 2 | Angry PBA bowlers

PATREON & KZbin MEMBERS LINK:
/ therightlane
/ @therightlanebowling
Some more very angry bowlers for you in part 2! In this video we look at some more classic angry outbursts that feature your favourite PBA bowlers.
Some fan favourites such as Marshall Holman & Pete Weber are featured in this video as well as some other familiar faces.
00:00 Intro
00:33 Marshall Holman
01:39 Pete Weber
04:32 Chris Barnes & Brad Angelo
07:10 Pete Weber's F Bomb
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pba bowling // pba bowling 2023 // bowling on tv // bowling fox // angry bowlers // angry pba bowlers // pete weber mad // pete weber angry // pete weber bowling // randy pedersen // randy pedersen 8 pin // jason belmonte // bowling 2023 // pba tour // pete weber us open // pete weber 2012 // pba us open 2012 // pete weber who do you think // who do you think you are // pba weber meltdown // pete weber celebration // pete weber swears // pete weber f bomb // Marshall Holman // Marshall Holman angry // Marshall Holman foul light // Marshall Holman 1980 // chris barnes // chris barnes brad angelo // bowling trash talk

[@RailStalkerAdventures]

I never thought that I would see Pete Weber do the legendary DX Chop to his opponent in a bowling matchup

[@david9783]

I wonder how many others here know who DX was.

[@benphillips9973]

I remember the first time I saw Pete Weber bowl as I hadnt watched PBA since I was a kid. It was somewhere between 07-09. Anyway, he comes out with the shades and did Rob Van Dam's thumbs when they introduced him lol instead of RVD it was PDW. I lost it 😂🤣😂🤣

[@pump_6669]

​@@david9783"SUCK IT!!!"

[@steveperry1344]

childish.

[@realmackle]

@@david9783 de-generation x baby

[@DA-bp8lf]

Watching a skinny Weber trying to flex muscles, he clearly doesn’t have, was the funniest thing in this video! 😂😂

[@ericsmith6677]

man that guy walks around like his cock is 10 inches

[@quesoblanco444]

lol, yeah, flexing wiry arms in a loose long sleeve shirt. good idea.

[@ronaldshank7589]

It is kinda funny...but we're talking about a guy that, when he's bowling, thinks that he's a member of WWE'S DX. You can tell, by the Crotch Chop!

[@JoeBaldwin-jx8iy]

Yep and everytime barnes threw a Brooklyn strike in competition he slid his foot across the foul line. To take a zero for the shot, then make it right with a full rack. Pdw and barnes are hall of famers and were great bowlers but horrible lovers and poor sportsman.

[@UFOsarerealArea51]

😂😂😅

[@kenstclair453]

I guess that dude really needs sunglasses indoors at the bowling alley

[@benphillips9973]

I always assumed it was to reduce possible glare off the lane so he could bowl more accurately? Or perhaps to tone down the overall brightness when you've got lighting from the broadcast equipment. Or perhaps, like Poker, it doesn't allow your opponent to possibly tell your reaction to certain situations. Lol or maybe it's none of the above and it was an ego thing 😅

[@fantazzzy6608]

wearing this glasses you can't see hate

[@LaserRanger15]

Looks like Bill Murray used Weber as his inspiration for his character in "Kingpin"

[@Resinpro]

Totally, dudes a flipping goof

[@NateCraven318]

​@@Resinpro That's what cocaine does to a MF.

[@ronwynkoop9340]

Always love seeing Angelo vs Barnes. Barnes thought he was being cute and Angelo gave it right back. Barnes knew he screwed up

[@hlcepeda]

Even in our company league bowl, head games are played but w/o rancor or lingering animosity. But these guys are seasoned pros who know the head games that can be played and certainly well enough to zone them out. How much of this "anger" is meant to make the network happy? The drama certainly could only generate more viewership.

[@GuidoLuzzi]

Angelo is my guinea. i remember watching this live

[@WSmith1949]

Who really cares about a Brooklyn strike? Happens all the time in every kind of league including the PBA. Barnes was just being a knucklehead.

[@GENOSANDIEGO]

@@WSmith1949 exactly. Heck I won a tournament throwing brooklyn strikes when pocket was too tight but somehow had an area and carrying on brooklyn. Of course, I'm no pro, but If it works, it works.

[@ronaldshank7589]

That's gotta be one of the biggest "Oops" moments of Chris Barnes career. Even If a strike is a "Brooklyn", it's STILL a strike! That's one time, that Chris Barnes (& yes, I like the guy, and I love watching him bowl) shoulda kept quiet. He didn't, though, and it cost him big-time!

[@Savagemister]

Who does Pete Weber think he is? I AM!

[@richardbullwood5941]

Hard to believe that the peak year of bowling was 1985. It has been in decline in every measurable way since. There was a time it was the most popular recreational sport in this country. I remember my grandmother being on a bowling league.

[@beckigreen]

Agree. Also there are no bowling alleys anymore where I live. Its bowling lanes in a kiddie place, with games, roller skating, etc.

[@chimmichurri6940]

i used to be on a bowling league and even had my own reactive ball but due to back then my dad and mine relationship they left my bowling balls in the garage. when we finally made-up i came home and wanted to get my bowling balls, they were completely shattered in their bags. Ever since then i didn't do league anymore, especially with the weird major hike in the prices and the weird scheduling they started to implement back then. I want to get back into bowling and get a reactive, and an invisi ball though just to keep playing! shits legit fun.

[@anton1949]

Billiards also. None on ESPN for the last decade. Bowling is on quite often.

[@sanderslongdrive]

Richard, Are you writing from the USA? In the UK I was a scratch player on both major touring leagues but gave up the sport due to rising costs. Nowadays £ 20. (UK pounds) would not be an unusual sum for renting a lane for an hour's practice session, assuming that the centre offered such facility. Of course there are many other costs not least our enormous vehicle fuel costs. Sport is often an expensive pastime. There's much to be said for instead growing turnips, assuming that one can stand the pace.

[@richardbullwood5941]

@@sanderslongdrive yep. The USA. It is still a recreational sport people engage in, but the days of serious bowling, people belonging to leagues, and high-profile professional players are long gone. In another time, maybe things would have been different, and someday they might be different again. Everything is cyclical. I'm sure bowling will be a hot sport again someday. Maybe you are young enough to see it come back

[@JP-wx6uh]

Pete Weber IS the original Ernie McCracken

[@visho8979]

The towel thing was legit imo, because at that level of bowling, they are very careful of what goes on the ball. The towel has oil on it, and possibly a negligible microscopic amount goes back to the ball if kept on top. But there are ways to express it and the way Weber behaves, he knows people feed off the entertainment

[@chase5298]

🤓

[@tastytacos8514]

@@chase5298hes right tho

[@chase5298]

@@tastytacos8514 🤓

[@SirJoelsuf1]

And I think Weber was just the type to just get in the moment too hard. He's been known to look back at all the stuff he did and laugh at it instead of get defensive about it.

[@mistermonologue2442]

You can do that if you won.

[@Southernguy39]

Cocaine is a hell of a drug if you’re Pete Weber.

[@martinthrone7012]

​@Southernguy39 Seems like Mr Weber is a prat he's showboating which some would perceive as unsporting conduct kicking the foul camera? 🤔 really? he seems to behave like a spoiled brat throwing a temper tantrum when things don't go his way......he needs to grow up & fast

[@mistermonologue2442]

@@martinthrone7012 He is an absolute clown of a human that doesn't realize is being laughed at as pathetic but as arrogant as he is he would never care anyway.

[@Melodie_Info3]

human thing

[@damilitantone]

When bowlers talk smack. I grew up watching Earl Anthony. He was a different breed.

[@user-sz2hz1yw6y]

While employed at the Tucson V.A. in the mid '70's I bowled on their bowling league and really enjoyed the camaraderie! It made everything we had to go through worthwhile and brought us closer together! Don't think they have a league now and if they do there are very few bowling alleys to choose from!

[@tjakr3869]

Pete’s teeth at the end. WTF

[@ouvss]

He smokes a crap ton

[@zachsnyder5444]

"And that's fuckin right, I AM" 😂😂

[@winstonsmith7545]

I know nothing of bowling but stumbled upon this video, which I enjoyed. Can someone please explain to me why Brooklyn strikes are frowned upon? Thanks in advance.

[@therightlanebowling]

I think it's mainly because if you go Brooklyn then you've probably missed your mark and normally by quite a long way. So a player would consider it quite lucky for you to bowl a bad ball and yet still get a strike. I guess it's a bit like a pool player not potting the ball as intended and yet it still manages to fall into another pocket unintentionally.

[@winstonsmith7545]

@@therightlanebowling ohhhhh okay so it’s just a bare bones thing, and you should be better than that as a pro. Got it, thank you!

[@gregoryschmidt1233]

If you miss the pocket and you're a little bit heavy on the headpin, not only are you less likely to get a strike, but you're more likely to end up with the dreaded 7-10 split. (the farthest left and farthest right pins remain standing, and almost impossible to clear). But if you REALLY miss badly, to the point of your ball striking the LEFT side of the headpin, you can sometimes luck your way into a backdoor (or "Brooklyn) strike. Weber was cursing his luck in that it seemed he was destined to lose to someone who was shooting so poorly that they were actually picking up strikes on the "wrong" side of the headpin. (Some recreational players are "Brooklyn" bowlers, because for whatever reason that's how they learned, or it's comfortable for them and they've developed a degree of consistency. But it's not something you'll see a pro doing intentionally.)

[@02hreblue30]

Its luck. Like nonintended bank shot. Its not a pro level shot. Its that simple

[@bartdrennon1764]

It is like banking in a free throw.

[@cursedchest6469]

Damn, I see why Pete wears the sunglasses. I would hide that face too

[@ohger1]

Those glasses aren't big enough..

[@karlepaul6632]

He probably got more tail than you did 🤪

[@sdarms111doug9]

I saw that Weber interview live. It was instantly apparent he was drunk as a skunk…couldn’t believe they went ahead with the interview…hilarious. Someone should have been fired for that one

[@domls1317]

Why?

[@rodfinke896]

It’s all part of the hustle, if you can make your opponent make his mind think about something else it gives you a edge.

[@lumberlikwidator8863]

I love watching these guys lose it on television, especially the ones I don’t like, like Barnes and PDW! Thanks for sharing this. (BTW, I think there’s no good breaks in bowling, only bad ones. So-called lucky strikes have always been part of the game, and a mature person knows and accepts it.)

[@peterb464]

As a former pro. Weber and Barnes are extremely nice guys they just come off angry

[@tuckerstrack]

@@peterb464for sure it’s def just heat of the moment. Lots of guys are like that. I saw Barnes last year in person and he’s a great guy, loves to talk bowling. Sean rash is also very nice in person

[@DaveBais]

Pete was drunk when he dropped the f bomb. Awesome.

[@ronaldshank7589]

Tilted bach one too many, huh?!? Oops!!!

[@CreativeAeturnus]

Kinda sad to see bowlers get salty over a Brooklyn.

[@agoo7581]

A 52 year old complaining about a towel on his ball, and not even to the bowler was one of the cringiest things I have ever seen on television.

[@josefrukavic7368]

sometimes you dont want to wipe your ball for different reaction, so having towel on your can absorb some of the oil. anyway why would you put towel on opponents ball ?

[@colddekstar]

​@@josefrukavic7368this is very true, but it's also really funny

[@agoo7581]

@@josefrukavic7368 Fine, then you just ask the opponent, don't run off and speak under your breath to the TD as if you are some Junior High School boy who is afraid to tell a girl that they like her. To answer your question, it's very common for people to leave towels on the ball returns, which sometimes results in the ball slightly touching it. I doubt it was some elaborate plan by Belmo to screw over Pete.

[@NateCraven318]

And it's this kind of bullshit that is wrong with singles bowling. They will always try to blame their opponents for their lack of good performance. Like, just get up, shut up, throw a shot, and get over it.

[@brandonparkinson7086]

Pete said in an interview that it was not real it he was trying to get belmo thrown off and get him distracted

[@fjosephgonzales6870]

Sorry, but having extra fans seated in your peripheral vision (off to the side) just for TV would bother the hell out of my concentration! In fact, if there are such things, I'd wear glasses/sunglasses that completely blocked out my peripheral vision if it was me out there.

This is not a sport, this is a game, like darts and soccer.

[@garycombs5721]

“It’s kind of intimidating to be in the presence of so many great athletes.” - Ishmael

[@domls1317]

Kingpin right?

[@ryananderson5202]

These were outbursts lol I want 5 minutes of my life back.

[@herbie747]

More like nerds getting slightly miffed.

[@Jason_Maier]

I noticed the NBC Sportsworld banner during the Marshall Holman foul light kick. Those I believe were the summer/fall events after ABC's coverage was done for the season. Then of course NBC did the fall telecasts 84-91

[@BuchananChris1]

Really funny. I remember some really physical outbursts during league bowling when I was a young man and didn't allow an elder enough time to bowl..... man did he get mad!

[@chrislewis6488]

I would've been mad at my hair 😂

[@hessbrotherssports7564]

Bowlers are hilarious. So serious about bowling and smack talking. 😂😂😂

[@michaelmaston4702]

That's why I keep a pair of earplugs in my bag... makes it easier to ignore the bullshit and concentrate on my game.

[@chimmichurri6940]

Hey man shits hella fun with the shit talk as long as its with friends. If its league, IMO not so much when it comes to league play. BUT also, those pro's at that level, atleast they did it passively which is damn hilarious lol.

[@michaelmaston4702]

@@chimmichurri6940 : Even so...some people don't know how to just "have fun". To them... it's life or death, so they'll shit talk you just to piss you off. Nothing friendly about that. If they lose...they take it very personally.

[@chimmichurri6940]

@@michaelmaston4702 IDK why youre telling me this, this is just how competive sports work lol. On pro levels that makes sense, for the rest of us, mehh, atleast for me if someone wants to shit on me for how i bowl, and i dont know them, idc. If it did get bad enough, id tell them to take me on at bar rules pool lollo. when it comes to bowling, for my own personal skill, i could give a shit less.

[@michaelmaston4702]

@@chimmichurri6940 : Hence the earplugs I keep in my bag. The only way he could interfere with my game then would be to do so physically. Once that happens...all the rules change.

[@mofo7689]

During my Jr HS yrs (77-79), I was an Air Force brat in Germany. The American base had an overall archery tournament. The kid that won was in my freshman year. Anytime he was spoken to, he demanded his title become part of his name. That didn't go well as his head was full of popularity vs keeping his grades up. Finally, a teacher openly spoke up reminding him that his lacking grades will most definitely keep him from any event anywhere on the base. It didn't sink in until his academics prevented his "title defense".

[@RoldanRR00]

The mind games in the Belmo/Webber match were at the highest level. Watching that one when it came out was really fun.

[@MrSticks9999]

I have bowled some of my best games, mad; pissed off. True story. Get me mad, I roll better.

[@bengrimm1222]

it's just sad that bowling prowess doesn't get as much acclaim as bowling antics.

[@playdiscgolf1546]

People don’t take it as seriously anymore. Back in the day, the equipment and the lanes weren’t as good. so pro bowlers often bowled on the same pattern as league bowlers and people understood how good that was. A 200 game was a big deal for league bowlers, before synthetic lanes. Now, they’re bowling on patterns that nobody understands because the equipment has made it easier, and bowling 300s like every other joe bowls.

[@colddekstar]

​@@playdiscgolf1546 Simo is a prime example And Belmo is a notable outlier

[@SirJoelsuf1]

@@colddekstar Simo throws it well AND gets salty. We need more like Simo in this sport. If I was at these guys' levels I would straight up be a human highlight reel. I'd get super salty but also joke about the salt during the same match. I'd get meme'd constantly and I would LOVE it lol

[@colddekstar]

@@SirJoelsuf1 this is how you kill the sport

[@grindstone25]

​@@colddekstarthis is how you save it

[@aaronkelly4565]

3:01 “I don’t want his towel on my ball” 😂

[@Dani-it5sy]

Biggest outburst 😆 Well one thing I have learned today. Bowling players have immense self control.. They basically never get angry at all.

[@32103045]

This is nothing, Walter pulled a gun during his game 😂

[@truthseeker7341]

To be fair it was Shabbos.

[@CarlsonsCustoms]

He marked it zero didn't he??!!

[@jacobmccain8082]

Weber is such a legend. The original cringelord. He knew exactly what he was doing with those ridiculous sunglasses and the golf glove with the thumb cut off.

[@DarrenColella]

I know a ex-pro irl and some of the stories he tells at our house are truly hilarious. My only reaponse is "whaaaaat?" As i roll on the floor laughing 🤣

[@danielmorehouse9116]

Smack talking bowlers. You gotta love it.

[@bmoore7817]

The strike is a strike watching Bowlers trying to act tough is hilarious

[@johncaygill9459]

Pete was always a hot 🥵 head. Every ball he rolled into the pocket he expected a strike. If any of you bowling you know you’re going to get tapped which means leaving the only true tap in bowling the 8 pin and then the 7, 10 and even the 9 pin. Pete is one of my favorite bowlers next to Walter Ray Jr. I’m an old timer. I miss Mike Aulby, Bob Handley, and Steve Cook the brother-in-law to Aulby. Walter Ray always beat Pete in match play. It’s a great and fun sport to play even if you’re a beginner or a 200 + Average bowler.

[@chimmichurri6940]

The last clip, those cameras didnt do that dude ANY favors at all holy shit :o

[@thebowlfosho4974]

Pete Weber has gotten very "old man yells at clouds" in his old age.

[@gregoryschmidt1233]

Pretty funny when bowlers have outbursts. They've no one to blame but themselves, like in darts.

[@NUFC2412]

Barnes and Webber pair of egos bigger than the desert

[@Resinpro]

Never take a man who wears shades indoors, seriously. Especially when that same man flexes his arms like a toddler impersonating marvel comics figures, when he bowls a strike

[@bigstopowens]

bowling was a mainstay in my school years, even a bit after highschool, blacklight bowling came around played that for like 4 years, seems like no one wants to bowl anymore. same with pool/billiards, all the pool halls by me have been shutting down, one of them even took half the pool tables out to put in poker table so they could do tourneys. it didn't work, they shutdown a few years after. place called snookers

[@timlabell]

Belmonte use to squeeze his plastic water bottle. It made lots of noise. He got hollered at.😂

[@typicalcomplex8287]

First guy needs a new haircut 💀

[@shermanhatch2716]

“Come on don’t miss YA WANTED IT YOU GOT IT!”-pete Weber angrily

[@dclong-]

There's nothing funnier than watching a cocky dork rage out. 😂😅

[@Toneonly1]

It’s Spags on the All American Bowling team. 😂

[@aceuni-rider6921]

I'm surprised that Anthony Simonsen didn't make either video. He's had several angry outbursts so far.

[@SVJROADSTER770]

Pete was clearing drunk in that interview when he dropped the F Bomb! He’s a great bowler but Belmo is the GOAT!

[@tigerguy1013]

If Mr. Weber asks you to do something, do it

[@NameyMcNamerson]

Some finely tuned athletes right there

[@SaccoBelmonte]

mmm... I expected flying fists and turns out these guys are quite polite.

[@sanderslongdrive]

Top players in every sport are at times emotionally charged to the point of bursting. I'm surprised that so very few do explode.

[@EyeForKnowledge.]

1:28 Is that Chad Kroeger? “This is how you remind me of how angry I get. This is how you remind me of how shitty I bowl”.

[@deanbrandl1987]

I've seen most of these some of the really good ones ...are with Earl Anthony

[@ddeboy002]

The crotch chop is so lame. I remember telling Duke-"You're my walter ray williams." He said I wish I was but I'm Norm Duke. He completely missed my point. Still love you Duke.

[@johnbaldock6353]

Since watching KINGPIN i can never look at Bowlers the same way!!🤣

[@ardaakel8123]

3:39 What am i gonna lose to? *B R O O K L Y N S ??* 😂😂

[@Drizzt_Do_Entreri]

WRW JR > PW

[@Waveriderz-]

Pete also complained that that's not my ball someone pulled a ball switch on me Jason can get a Brooklyn strike why can't I lol

[@torydz]

I guess that throwing your sunglasses on the floor and saying to get your towel off of my ball are considered traumatic outbursts in bowling. Good thing he didn't say "Get your DAMN towel off of my ball". Half of the audience would have fainted. I thought I was gonna see one of the guys decking the other one in the jaw or a bowler throwing his ball into the audience or something like that.

[@wildgoobsid5]

That is the craziest hloeman hairdo ever. What was he thinking?

[@anthonyfoutch3152]

this ain't mad you should had seen me after bowling 8 strikes then opening in the 9th frame. ending with a 257. I kicked the ball exchange so hard i almost broke my big toe. lol

[@martymorse2]

I liked bowling as a kid in the 60's, but I could never handle all the cigarette smoke when our nation was held hostage by the tobacco industry. Last time I went to a bowing ally with my kids it was dark and the light show from all the video games made the place feel like an underworld scene from Star Wars.

[@HEYBERT1984]

Lol some outbursts. What a nice sport bowling is haha.

[@Gumbocinno]

7:57 god damn, you deep fried his ass in this clip

[@Ti_Taannikk]

Thats nothing I would of been smashing everything if I didn't win 😂

[@wswillett]

Webber did not participate in the Dental Plan OBVIOUSLY

[@34stzoo]

1:40 Webber is known for blamning others for his downfall and doesn't take responsibly for his actions.

[@HistoryWithCoachT]

I like your accent my man.

[@leekinanus7409]

Weber is so cool,he wears sunglasses indoors. A true legend in his own mind 🙄

[@bensheaffer1590]

I’m from Wisconsin, huge bowling state. I love bowling, for sure. But I can’t help thinking that it is hilarious and ridiculous that pro bowlers get so hype. They aren’t football or rugby players. They are business-casual dressed BOWLERS. 😂

[@gregoryschmidt1233]

Wisconsin here as well. I can close my eyes and go back to childhood and remember the SMELL of the local bowling alley. Wax, oil, shoe spray, stale beer and the CIGARETTES!

[@jonathanvince8173]

Well that is about as good as Lawn Bowels hijacking the Jack.

[@AlexWyattDrums]

This video taught me there is such thing as a “Brooklyn strike” and that it’s bad for some reason.

[@mawage666]

Is a Brooklyn strike bad or something? What is the issue with that?

[@FUYT888]

A strike, is a strike.

[@williamjensen674]

Weber is a piece of work

[@porflepopnecker4376]

These guys are ANIMALS!!!

[@willydear4906]

Several years ago I was watching Pete Webber bowl in a tournament while I was with my 1 year old son. While Pete was bowling my son threw up all over the seating nearby. Pete gave me a very evil eye but didn't say anything. I also saw Mark Roth bowl a 138 and started tossing his bowling balls all over the place after the game.

[@Diah_TV]

i mean to be fair you shouldnt take a 1 year old to a bowling tournament...

[@user-td8jx1ls2z]

Wearing sunglasses to bowl is super cringe

[@DoogieDollaz]

What is wrong with a Brooklyn Strike?

[@tomminear286]

Was 1980 the last year that both players threw a full game on tv in the doubles? When i started watching mid 80's, they were doing Baker on tv.

[@fracturedraptor7846]

Pete and I share a last name. Often in my life, while bowling, people ask if we're related. I don't know if it's because I'm good and they assume it or if it's just the usual thing where people immediately a shared name means you're related to someone famous. Always amused me. I actually had dreams of facing him when I was younger simply because we share the name. I guess it's stupid but the idea amused me and still does. I still think pocket seven-tens are complete horse shit.

[@chancemholton6611]

You forgot the brad angelo vs jason couch smack talk

[@jeffwilliam4367]

@8:04 too bad Weber didn't spend any of his winnings on his teeth.....

[@vito449]

Is Weber the brother of Earl Strickland? I see similarities on every level

[@jimmyjames6267]

What's wrong with throwing a Brooklyn strike, try throwing a Brooklyn strike twice in a row, harder than throwing a normal strike!!!

[@okee63]

I can’t take angry bowlers seriously. Just doesn’t compare to an angry MMA fighter.

[@caytonhopson3200]

A lot of people hate on bowling but honestly it’s hard atleast to me i probably never got over 100 and three guys aren’t bums they can bowl i think it’s a fun sport is it a little ridiculous sometimes yea

[@earlycuyler8719]

If this is what you call an outburst then you need to watch baseball!

[@bradmaxwell6668]

An angry bowler is like an angry toddler…annoying, but nobody will be scared

[@UGotTheFunk]

Coming from the pokerstars video series, none if these are outbursts lol

[@Tiggvd001]

We were expected to be professional and never lose our temper if we wanted to matriculate to the tour. Now that bowling got so boring no one watches it those same guys that kept passion out of the game are out here pretending to have it.

[@TheCrowman-uj3xw]

Belmo sometimes looks just unfairy and unpolite...the towel on Pete's ball, bottle cracklin' against Rash and also Brad Angelo...why doin' this things?