Black Mirror: Still Bad

Let's talk about Black Mirror. Get 40% discount on nebula: go.nebula.tv/b...
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[@BigJoel]

Nebula is 15 dollars for the YEAR. Not month. It’s 2.50 a month. Also, the lifetime deal on Nebula is a September only thing. Also my bonus video will be out in a few days! I did a bad job at the ad this time. Womp go.nebula.tv/bigjoel/

[@cha-mel-eon]

of course king

[@vantablack6288]

i eated the comment

[@targaghjj]

What? Is the world ending Oct 1?

[@vantablack6288]

@@targaghjj yes

[@KM-pm6qe]

Link takes me to a $30/year offer. $15 ➗ 12 months would be $1.25, not $2.50. You might be working too hard, Joel! 🌸

[@thisissme]

Its so crazy they didn’t make Beyond the Sea be from the wife’s perspective. Imagine the horror of never knowing which man was your husband. And then maybe, one day she realizes it’s not him, and she doesn’t know if her actual husband is dead or alive. Does she keep her mouth shut or try to get answers? Does she care? It would be so cool

[@threepointonefour607]

I thought this would happen. Like the crewmate would kill the husband and pretend to be the husband..would have been spookier imo

[@threepointonefour607]

Especially if we also didn't know that husband is dead, until it's revealed at the very end somehow on the ship

[@treehann]

that was one of many ways to actually write the episode in a smart and interesting way... instead of what they did.

[@dmb1745]

@@threepointonefour607I actually thought this was how the episode was going to end and I was disappointed when he instead killed the wife and child.

[@cardiaccoder9622]

i feel like you’d probably know if the other person was ur partner or just some stranger pretending to be them though. like they could probably get away with it for a short bit but no real length of time

[@austinferguson4000]

“There is no way the Terms of Service in your Disney+ contract could possibly legally allow Disney to take your life”

[@alexandrajones4518]

Aged like fine wine. Or milk. Your choice.

[@thesleepydot]

fucking crazy. black mirror is not too far from real life at all……….

[@interrabang]

When it's a robot, it's apropos to call it "digital stimulation" instead of "hand sex"

[@chaosvii]

🦾 🍑

[@benjaminkutzner821]

Coochie Clicker

[@hughcaldwell1034]

I am (a) ashamed I didn't think of this and (b) shocked at how underappreciated this comment is. That right there was a bloody masterstroke.

[@AK-ih3hx]

Let's take it one further and call it "digit(al) stimulation"

[@Ackthrice]

@@hughcaldwell1034 A masterstroke is a very good type of hand sex

[@d_akios3520]

The hardest part to believe about joan is awful is that a lawyer would see this huge case about authorship and give up after one day of reviewing it just because the terms and services say so. A real lawyer would have “reviewed” the case for months no matter how likely you are to lose

[@nightwaddie5426]

That and the fact that the main characters first thought was to shit in a church instead of completely isolating herself from tech.

[@slightlyoffensivedadjokes]

omg yes thank you. EVERY case takes so much time and lawyers need to study extensively. especially in terms of services cases, where lawyers have to endlessly read and reread arbitrarily long ToS transcripts over and over again, no matter how obvious the verdict might seem. not that being a lawyer is an inherently noble profession, but the job DOES require a lot of time and researching.

[@Not_Always]

@@nightwaddie5426 That was a gaping hole in the logic for me. If I was told that my whole life was being broadcast simply because I had a phone or smart home device that listened and saw everything that I said, and that the ToS for a streaming service gave them the right to do so, guess what would be canceled immediately and turned off before that? Also, in no world can you check a box that says "I agree" and that be 100% legally sound for a company to do whatever they wanted in perpetuity. Laws are not written like that.

[@Zomburai45]

@@Not_Always I mean it's not so far removed from the legal arguments AI companies are making right now in regards to AI generated content

[@Not_Always]

@@Zomburai45 the arguments aren't remotely the same, tbh

[@zacharyjoseph7458]

Pia dies like most of us will: anticlimactically. No struggle, or send-off, or emotional last goodbyes. She trips and drowns in the dark. I like how the second documentary wraps her death into the mystery and intrigue of the murders -- truth is distorted for the sake of heightened drama. It's an important reference point for the audience to scale the distance between reality and "a true story."

[@adil0028]

Pia's eyebrows should be considered an international crime lol

[@cassieshoemaker4733]

​@@adil0028thank you for saying this

[@maddieb.4282]

@@adil0028curious what her eyebrows did to hurt you personally or if you just like judging women for unusual style choices

[@adil0028]

@@maddieb.4282got her killed didn't it

[@humphreyspellingbee1732]

"joan is awful" wasn't terrible, but seeing it after black mirror's hiatus really felt like waiting an hour at a fancy restaurant only to receive a bread basket full of bread that was clearly just purchased from the nearest supermarket and toasted for half the time it needed to be

[@TheFrostbite324]

It was solid, but it was the only episode that felt like a black mirror episode. Even then it would probably be in the lower end of the previous seasons.

[@genericamerican7574]

With a side of dollop of dollar store tomatoes🥫

[@lollybowser]

​@@TheFrostbite324seriously I feel the concept is just fully lost now. It used to be a reflection on society and over reliance on technology and where that could lead us to in a potential future. Not every episode was gold but it was still mostly solid. Now it feels like they're just throwing ideas around, doesn't matter if technology is even involved. I feel some of these would be a better fit on Love Death Robots.

[@TheFrostbite324]

@@lollybowser it went from “hey let’s take a look at this technology that could exist sometime in the future and see how it could go horribly wrong” to “let’s just be Netflix’s Twilight Zone”

[@elgatonegro1703]

@@TheFrostbite324mate they’ve always been like this…the entire first season is cynical parables about some aspect of social media, which imo isn’t an unfair description of the show. Even when it does explore interesting ideas, like death and loss and consciousness in Be Right Back, it still has to remind you that fabricant-Dommhall derives its personality from his mfin twitter account, of all things, in case you were getting philosophical instead of worked up about how chronic online-ness will make people…somehow more unpleasant than Brooker. I still like Black Mirror because 9 times out of 10, even when it’s bad it’s still pretty engaging in the moment. And here we are talking about it, so that’s not nothing. But it rarely says anything of value or that you can’t find in some random Reddit comment, and it occasionally sacrifices good storytelling or cinematography to say those things.

[@nonarygaming9520]

Mazey Day would have been so much better if Bo had snapped that final pic of Mazey without her consent. Throughout the episode Bo positions herself as more moral, more scrupulous than her colleagues. This is her last job, because unlike her mean and sleazy colleagues, she has standards. But, like, she doesn’t. She’s still stalking this vulnerable woman. She’s a hypocrite, and the ending should reflect that.

[@jeremyarcus-goldberg9543]

I think your version is one way to interpret the ending. It would mean that Bo deliberately misinterprets Mazel request to shoot her.

[@wellwell7950]

The way I interpreted it, it was without her consent, I think Joel actually misinterpreted it because I read a couple plot synopsis and not one says Mazey wanted the picture taken and some explicitly stated she was doing it as you described without her consent, as a commentary on Bo. And when you watch it I'm actually confused how Joel came to the conclusion she wanted the photo taken. She didn't say take a pic of me gal, she just asked for the gun and then Bo brought the camera up.

[@killerdonut1194]

That is what happens. She asks Bo to kill her, Bo hands her the gun, and as she puts it to her head Bo raises her camera. There’s no words exchanged, not even a nod or facial expression indicating she’s asking her to take a picture. She doesn’t immediately shoot herself. She kind of stares at Bo for a second, and I think this is what Joel is interpreting as consent, but I think that’s wrong. I think she’s just not super psyched to be shooting herself lmao.

[@comedyman4896]

I think it would have been so much better if it had turned out they were both werewolves and then they had hot hairy werewolf sex for the remaining runtime of the episode

[@wellwell7950]

@@killerdonut1194 totally agree

[@jaxonsevero1045]

The werewolf one was hilariously bad and my girlfriend predicted the twist through the twilight references in it💀

[@YearsOfLeadPoisoning]

That was by far my favourite episode. It was fun and was the least bogged down in convoluted messaging.

[@levitategrin]

@@YearsOfLeadPoisoning I had a great time with it

[@kat8559]

Yessss i thought that was so fun

[@alex9581]

oh, me too! the muse songs completely clued me into it

[@violetblythe6912]

What were the twilight references? I feel like I should know this as I read all the books when they came out in junior high, but I barely remember them now lol. I only read them because it was all any of the other girls would talk about. I recall having a really hard time getting through the second book because 95% of it was Bella whining and then trying to kill herself because her bf wasn’t there. It was painfully bad.

[@dazzasenchy]

Just a note on Joan is awful, I think the reason why there were so many strange dramatic scenes (the shit in the church, the apple terms of service) was because we were watching a dramaticisation of a dramaticisation of a real person's life. We can see in our second-level Joan's perspective that the TV show of her life is even more dramatic and silly, so the original Joan's life is probably much less dramatic and silly than what we see in second-level Joan. I thought that the strangeness and silliness of those moments was explained really satisfyingly by the twist. There were probably much better explanations as to why the TV show was legal in the original Joan's life, but we don't get to see them.

[@milamakowska1213]

That's convenient😑

[@jasonbraun127]

I don't think that's true. The Hayek-Joan was a bit more exaggerated in her meanness but otherwise the show depicted the events as they happened (especially some of the key moments like the lawyer scene and the church scene) pretty accurately. On top of that, in the end we can see the real church scene with the real Joan and it played out pretty much exactly like we saw it in the episode.

[@TheInfectous]

@@milamakowska1213 You do realize that TV shows are scripted and written right? That writers think about these things? No fucking shit it's convenient.

[@alejandrobolin5224]

While that could be a good explanation, it can also feel like a pretty good excuse for lazy writing, like Charlie Brooker didn't want to bother to have a logical explanation when it comes to that, so he just took advantage of the episode's premise to essentially not try. (P.S. I still like Joan Is Awful btw)

[@enio9477]

There was a bit after credits where they showed original Joan doing it for funsies, and she did the exact same thing in the exact same way.

[@Ashen-Crow]

To me the tragedy at the start of Beyond the sea is severely undermined by the existence of the "robot murder squad". It would fit the narrative way better if they just crashed their car or something.

[@PurgPurg]

Fr. It made no sense. “Some sort of hippie cult!” proceeds to never come up again. And it was so cheesy too, the acting was so bad, ugh

[@jaytee_9074]

Probably, but it wouldnt have been nearly as traumatizing to the husband as seeing them killed right in front of you

[@cayleece7890]

@@jaytee_9074 true

[@EGOR.d07]

the only thing the "hippie squad" contributed to was the ideia of owning a firearm at home, which i reeeally doubt goes in line with netflix's political agenda lol

[@mrdoggo3569]

its absolutely senseless too. Those are super important government agents, they would never be living alone, their house would be monitored 24/7 and any attempt to break in would result in death lol.

[@thisguyducky]

I like that American Vandel, a joke satire fake documentary about a student drawing dicks on cars, some how has way more to say about ethics and affects of true crime than Black Mirror.

[@Kaido711]

Yeah exactly. Genuinely interesting, and Dylan Maxwell’s character brings up some interesting points about the self-fulfilling prophecy of teen “troublemakers.”

[@ConnorNolan]

American Vandal is amazing

[@NIN0ID]

American Vandal is pretty great, tbf

[@than217]

~What about the ball hairs? Teacher: "Excuse me?"

[@TheFrostbite324]

I’m so mad Netflix cancelled it.

[@skch.animation]

I used to tell myself when i was walking alone in the dark, that if i were a potential horror movie victim, i could just do something crazy that would never be put into a movie, like shitting on the street for no reason. But then i told myself that if i started doing that for seemingly no reason, that THAT would be the real horror movie irl.

[@vlayneberry578]

I agree Maisie Day is awful, but the werewolf thing isn't totally random. It's a pretty transparent metaphor for addiction: she's made vulnerable to it by fame, she tries to escape to a treatment center to heal her illness, but being dragged back into the public eye repeatedly keeps her from recovering, until her condition gets so bad that she ends up hurting the people around her. It's another one where there could be something interesting there in the idea, but the way it's done is really slow and boring and doesn't investigate the idea much at all.

[@Nightman221k]

Plus, Maisie could've been treated and gotten the help she needed in the rehab she was at if not for being a famous celebrity who the paparazzi were wanting to use for exploitation.

[@bellbanana]

Interesting, I interpreted it as a metaphor for how the public dehumanizes celebrities, with the invasive behavior of paparazzi being one of the most visible and egregious examples.

[@kenzij]

That makes sense. I was fine with there being a supernatural element but I couldn't figure out why werewolves were chosen.

[@chriss780]

i think it was about werewolves mauling people.

[@slothhq1929]

I think it’s a metaphors for how people view celebrities. Dehumized, powerful, a speciticle.

[@Joeyw-2203]

This latest season was more like a horror anthology. There's no real twist or techno phobia. There's just a scary monster and then the main character dies.

[@REY.3727]

literally it's so sad, feels like it could've been so much better. although I suppose the pig episode didn't use technology it was pretty good though

[@Dokkobo]

It did in the sense of exploiting the public's relation with live media to humiliate and torment a man for your own satisfaction/agenda. What the kidnapper sought to achieve wouldn't have been possible without the world's connection to TV. It did a great job with that by showing the anticipation and debates of the public around the event, but that all turned to disgust and pity when the time came. @@REY.3727

[@MichelleSmith-gt1py]

​@@REY.3727 it was about the horror of journalism and news outlets. kinda tech.

[@deltanoiro]

Personally my reading of Loch Henry was that there is a distance to the crimes that the producers and consumers of true crime share, a separation that allows for the enjoyment of a sort of real life ghost story. This isnt seen as a probelm or harmful, until the seperation is gone, and the crime is suddenly made personal. When you dont have that barrier between you and the awful thing/things that were done, it stops being entertainment and your left with the reality of it. I think the message is fine and was delivered fine, my primary problem is that it was coming from netflix, which is super exploitative of true crime, and isnt shy about profiting from painting real life tragedy as an exciting and episodic binge.

[@peachy_lili]

I didn't like Loch Henry at first, but when I came to this interpretation I at least got what I thought it was trying to do. I think Joel is an astute critic of just about every kind of art, but we are all vulnerable to tunnel vision for our own interpretations sometimes. I agree his interpretation does make the episode incredibly pointless, I just didn't share that interpretation! Mazey Day sucked tho.

[@ilikebugs69]

Honestly between Loch Henry and Joan Is Awful I really felt like Netflix is just laughing in our faces, Streamberry IS Netflix and they're both very "we know" episodes. It left a bad taste in my mouth

[@tempesttossed6029]

Exactly. Spot on.

[@tempesttossed6029]

​@@ilikebugs69Yes, I believe that they are doing it on purpose.

[@fightvale57]

Same and same.

[@hunnerrichau6799]

I understand your thoughts on iPhone TOS not allowing to make an AI show of your life / likeness in ‘Joan is Awful,’ but we are literally at a time where actors in SAG-AFTRA are on strike for their likeness being used from one day’s worth of work; and going even beyond that- as an Amazon labor organizer- Amazon delivery drivers and their TOS states not only Amazon’s inward facing camera can reflect and go on to use our likeness *but* that it can also use our very existence as a means of replicating / improving itself.

[@jenniharrison6759]

I just really want to say that when black mirror first started, it was a fringe series in channel 4. In the UK channel 4 was always this channel which young people could switch to to see interesting and innovative programming. In the UK channel 4 was always willing to take a risk and be out there and progressive, and it took a punt of Black Mirror and the first season was ground breaking for those of us who tuned in live. Black mirror came after this amazing series about Big Brother called Dead Set which was set if a zombie apocalypse happened from the perspective of Big Brother participants and it was ace for the time. I'm disappointed that Black Mirror has become from fringe to a global appeal Netflix's series. It's like when a band becomes mainstream, you're happy for the success but disappointed by the results 🤷‍♀️

[@baintreachas]

wait, i was excited to see that exact concept on Netflix but in Brazil- Reality Z. i thought it was such an original idea 😭

[@Schmidtelpunkt]

But it is also similar in the way that one has discovered that band at a stage of one's life when one would discover the world a lot through the lens of their songs. No later song, no matter how good, will ever match that experience. The comparison is no between the current songs and the old songs but between the new songs and phase of one's own development warped by nostalgia. Sticking to something you liked will always end with it being shit. Always.

[@lashermayfair0]

Dead Set was so terrific!!

[@JamesFTW1]

Black Mirror became the protagonist of fifteen million merits

[@goodgoshzilla]

i still remember how genuinely confronting or interesting the first couple of seasons were, and whenever i tell people irl about how disappointing the netflix show is they just don't see how it could be any different from how it is now. it feels like such a massive waste of a genuinely interesting concept in pursuit of lazy twist-bait and people don't think to expect anything more than that

[@OrionCanning]

My real problem with beyond the sea is it's just these characters alone in a pressure cooker, with no NASA employees protecting their investment, no therapist, no psych evals, no bodyguards to stop weird anti robot Manson cultists. It felt silly that they were left entirely on their own especially in the wake of such a tragedy. Also that it just seemed designed to have the worst possible turn of events in a way that feels pointlessly edgy or tragic. But I wasn't at all bored by it, I was very engaged. The werewolf episode really needed to show what the main character does with the photos and story to make it meaningful, how she grapples with the morality of exploiting this tragedy, with getting the truth about werewolves out, maybe no one will publish it but national enquirer, but it was a fun twist.

[@fightvale57]

Agree to both points. Those were the episodes I enjoyed.

[@comp.lex4]

I had the same thought about Beyond the Sea. When Cliff was trying to invent a reason that they couldn't keep sharing the link, I was practically screaming at my screen, why can't you just tell your superiors about the situation and ask them to tell him to stop, without letting him know you asked for it? Go over his head so it isn't your fault anymore, it's just policy, and everything will be fine again. I also was really confused why the replicas were on earth, while the humans were in space. Send the robots to space; they're just as good at any motor skills, and they probably don't need complicated life support or even any food. Who needs manned missions when you've got un-men like these, yknow?

[@evanward4303]

So many plot holes... During all the down time I was entertaining the pros and cons of having the robots on the space ship instead of the guys

[@Bigboigoinlong]

I will say that it’s pretty clear in Mazey Day that the girl turning into a werewolf is a metaphor for celebrity break downs due to drug abuse/psychotic breaks like Brittney Spears or other celebrities. It’s pretty obvious they were going for the exploitation and harassment from celebrity culture leading to suicides/drug addiction/death by overdose. I agree that the episode is not the best, but I don’t think that the whole her turning into a werewolf thing doesn’t make sense in the context of the episode. This episode came out after all of the Free Brittney stuff and that documentary about her, so it was very prevalent when the episode came out. I just don’t think they handled that subject matter well, and never really had any emotional reverence because you never got the perspective from the celebrity. Can you imagine how much better the episode would have been if it was from the perspective of Mazey Day herself instead? Maybe what they were trying to say would have been more impactful, and maybe people would have understood it better. What a missed opportunity, but they need a twist in every episode for some dumb reason.

[@Kaido711]

In Beyond the Sea, David was reading "The Illustrated Man" by Ray Bradbury (in which a man buys a robot replica of himself so that he doesn't need to interact with his wife) and so I expected it to dive more into Cliff's emotional isolation and motivations. Being that so much of Beyond the Sea centered around loneliness and atomization, I thought it was going to make more parallels between Cliff and David's loneliness. But we never get to understand Cliff, or the underlying reasons he'd been so cold to his family. I thought it was interesting how isolated and closed off Cliff seemed from the beginning (despite being the technically less lonely one between the two of them following David's loss). If the story was in part a commentary on patriarchy, I feel like it could have said more to tie those two themes together, especially with the whole "male loneliness" debate that's going on.

[@spinozatheobvious626]

Cliff, retreating to the countryside, is to me the spirit of the old world lingering on. David, living in LA(?) is an attempt at a more modern, vaguely progressive life. And yet, in the end, they are basically the same: violent, self centred men. I'm not sure why much more needed to be said about what they believe exactly, I think their actions and their views on the people around them speak plenty on their beliefs.

[@dinosaysrawr]

"Beyond the Sea" actually felt like the kind of story Ray Bradbury or Phillip K. Dick would write!

[@SantosAl]

​@spinozatheobvious626 You could call Cliff self-centered for "forcing" his family to move to the country but how is he violent?

[@JB-fp3fb]

@@SantosAl He regularly beats his son, and even encourages others to do so too. The scene of him defending, almost bragging about, this is even in Big Joel's video.

[@anarchakatty5438]

​​@@SantosAlwatch the video, Big Joel actually shows a clip of Cliff talking about "wailing on" his son and defending David hitting him as Cliff because Cliff already hits him all the time, and encouraging that it needs to be done. It's awful

[@iamtherog]

I gave Black Mirror another shot with this season and I pretty much agree with everything you say here. I feel like the issue is that there’s never really a concrete reason why *these people* are being singled out. It’s not like in Twilight Zone where usually folks are receiving karmic punishment for violating society’s rules. It’s just nasty stuff that happens to people because of tech.

[@gwen9939]

You don't even need to refer to a different show for this. White Christmas and Black Museum both feature some kind of karmic justice or at least a reason for why these things are happening to these specific people.

[@noahkarpinski1824]

​@gwen9939 yeah I think the key thing in those episodes is that it's people who benefit from the technology getting arbitrarily turned into a victim

[@RabidDogma]

I'm glad people are finally realizing this with this show, but it's been there the whole time. The entire theme of the entire show is a hamfisted "HEY GUYS TECHNOLOGY BAD, GOT IT?" And then people come back with "nonono you don't understand it's people that are bad, people use the technology to be bad," but that's not true EITHER, most people are actually decent. It's the same with the bullshit idea of "if there was an apocalypse you need to avoid people." People together create communities, people together are way stronger, that's our ENTIRE HISTORY and people just ignore that because some dumb movies or shows go "oh boy people are evil huh?"

[@thelemon5069]

Karmic punishment isn't how karma works. Karma is just the sum total of one's actions

[@riynu7774]

@@RabidDogma ""if there was an apocalypse you need to avoid people." People together create communities, people together are way stronger, that's our ENTIRE HISTORY and people just ignore that because some dumb movies or shows go "oh boy people are evil huh?" I don't think history is a good example for people being reasonable and good lol. saying all people are bad and saying most people are decent are both meaningless statement in this context. "HEY GUYS TECHNOLOGY BAD, GOT IT?" is not inherently a bad idea as there have been many shows which showcases some ways in which tech can be harmful or our interaction with being a negative. it can also show case how it can be used by bad indiviuals and how it get used to influence people. Religion bad and War bad are also there... people in the 90's were super paranoid about the increasing influence of tech and many hollywood movies represented this paranoia like terminator etc. It was especially prevalent in japan. also I agree there is no karmic justice in many episodes but i don't think the show claim to be that.... bad thing happening to good people is also a name "tragedy" and that's what the show treats itself as in those episodes... i agree with joel in this video and you can criticize the show, just do it with good reasons.....

[@wellwell7950]

If you liked old Black Mirror for it psychological bent, a great series to check out is Inside No 9. It's a dark comedy anthology series like Balck Mirror. It's not technology orientated, however the stories are brilliant and can have interesting story telling techniques such as a silent episode, an episode written in Iambic Pentameter. The stories are often very dark, but are very thoughtful and emotional.

[@tubthungusbychumbungus]

The Bill was one of the most twisting, tense and brilliant pieces of writing I've ever experienced

[@FTZPLTC]

Whenever someone says anything bad about Black Mirror, the Inside No 9 fandom smell blood in the water and start to circle (I am one of them)

[@FairyBogFather]

yes! this show is both hilarious and gutting

[@wellwell7950]

​@@tubthungusbychumbungus very true Misdirection as well.

[@wellwell7950]

​@@FTZPLTC lol, yeah you are right about that

[@jasonbraun127]

Loch Henry was the biggest disappointment of the whole season for me (although probably not the worst episode overall.) I think a critique of True Crime is very timely and appropriate, especially with Netflix cranking out gross things like the Dahmer series but they so desperately wanted to create a "shocking" twist that they made it boring and not subversive in the slightest. I always thought the episode would've been so much better if there was no big reveal and there was no mystery to solve. Just an awful story about an awful person and these teenagers made everyone go through this whole ordeal again just because they wanted to exploit the situation for their cool documentary. Because that's often how real tragedies are. It would've been a lot more subversive in my opinion and actually would've gotten the point across better.

[@ambatuBUHSURK]

ethics NEED to be considered when making true crime content. some of the stuff on youtube is outright disrespectful and sensationalist to the point that the grizzly details of the crime are the only selling point.

[@endaburns2121]

*Lock Henry

[@camerabox1]

@@endaburns2121 why are you correcting him, the episode is called Loch Henry because thats the fictional location its set in

[@RedHairedZander]

​@@camerabox1some people like to pretend to be right. Even if they have no idea what they're talking about.

[@ActuallyDoubleGuitars]

Loch Henry is something I think about often, they got the bleakness and emptiness of these places perfectly. I thought it was shocking and very effective.

[@knv3101]

It's hard to watch something about patriarchy when they're writing through a corrupted masculine lense. Like, if your point is "don't treat women like property" but in the process you treat women like property and you only show sypathy to the male character, how are you actually different? Men who believe women are property will still co-opt your art because it represents what they believe.

[@ZedAmadeus]

Yeah that's what I was thinking. We've gotten a lot of vivid portraits of misogynistic men and their complicated, shitty inner-lives (like Breaking Bad as another example) but the criticism of their behaviour always feels a little toothless, because at the end of the day... We spend more time thinking about them and seeing their perspective, and a lot less time focusing on the people they hurt and how they experience these men. Would've been a much more unsettling episode from the perspective of the wife and kid.

[@unfortunatecircumstances8870]

​@@ZedAmadeusWe'd be stuck with veggie bacon and sad handjobs for the first few seasons.

[@noahtheanimationguy3695]

@@ZedAmadeus 🤓☝

[@tomnelsonast]

@@noahtheanimationguy3695 Damn bro, it must've taken you 5 minutes to come up with that one. What a belly-buster right there!

[@blarg2429]

@AzureWolf168 Yes, but using that convenient shorthand isn't always necessary or ideal, not to mention that if you ask a writer who doesn't get feminism already to write something feminist, they'll just give you a girlboss at best. If we were all on the same page about these social issues the world would be a very different place than it is.

[@gracejung4070]

Relevant time stamps for the video 0:44 E2 - Loch Henry 5:00 Big Joel digresses to make a point on why he is weirdly obsessed with the themes of Black Mirror 7:14 E3 - Beyond the Sea (ft. Beach Big Joel) 15:15 E5 - Demon 79 (considered the best by Big Joel) 18:50 E4 - Mazey Day 21:34 E1 - Joan is Awful (ft. Old Stone Wall Big Joel)

[@Rangertom6]

Demon 79 is E5

[@gnatscrafts]

you rock

[@erinunrau6380]

13:18 watch an airplane slowly fly into Big Joel's head

[@danopticon]

I like Old Stone Wall, but Big Joel’s appreciation of “Joan is Awful” is awful.

[@giuthais]

@@erinunrau6380 🤣

[@TVBjak]

It seemed like most of these episodes’ endings were made by people who didn’t know how to end it but certainly wanted a twist/shock.

[@reikowallach2465]

Best thing about the later season of Black Mirror was that they led me to search for something as good as the earlier seasons, and I got directed to "Inside No 9", which turned out to be an even better show.

[@kriminal7009]

I feel like shows today, when they want to tackle an issue or theme, try to leave it morally ambiguous. I imagine it the creators think it’s “deeper” but really it comes across as vacant; as art that tried to do something but refused cross the final finish line. You can use show not tell to indicate deeper systemic themes, or even to show what specific things you want to be seen as good or bad.

[@catelynh1020]

I think it's just the pendulum swinging the opposite way. Previously, all villains were inarguably evil so it was subversive to have a pitiful or even ambiguous villain. Like how disney must have twist villains now. By the same token, previously the theme was in your face and obvious, very "tell the audience the theme" type content. But some stuff that had ambiguity got popular and so now everyone and their mother is trying to hop on the bandwagon. Which also means a lot of creators don't really get it so can't do it well.

[@TheBoboSamurai]

Hmm I'm not sure that whole perspective holds up for me, perhaps it is my individual bias. When I think of art and stories across time, I see it as primarily morally ambiguous. Personally, I believe art is inherently amoral; morals are created in a moment of action between differing agents; Morality in art is found in the subjective interpretation, i.e. projected between the observer and object. When I consider great stories across history I see nuanced pieces that beg to be interpreted in ways that reflect the complexity of life. Of Mice and Men, Hamlet, Oedipus, A Raisin in the Sun, the Bible, Tao te Ching, the Epic of Gilgamesh, the original Brother's Grimm fairy tales, The Idiot, 100 Years of Solitude, etc. These works can be interpreted depending on the context and individual's perspective. They stand the test of time because they reflect the nuance of time; great works, works that "cross the finish line of art", allow ambiguity. Even something like the painting Guernica. Personally, the problem for me is how black and white stories are. It seems so much art is created with a moral stance loud and clear. For me, that stuff is barely art: it's propaganda. Art is not a moral weapon, when it's used as such it becomes boring. I get the feeling that the Black Mirror writers consistently are foaming at the mouth for something to stand for/against. They feel desperate to be profound but lack any tact, nuance, or feeling. Imho. I agree that Black Mirror often fails to show and not just tell. That's it, that's my rant.

[@claudiag.9307]

​@@TheBoboSamuraiI wonder what makes you say that about Brother Grimm's stories, I understand them to be very moralizing and black and white

[@kriminal7009]

@@TheBoboSamurai With all due respect I think you somewhat missed what I was saying here but I’ll expand it. I’m a believer in modern art, actually. I love art that is ambiguous, I love art that questions what even is art, or what can and can’t count as art. For me, as started in the original comment, it’s about whether or not a goal is achieved. I love Rothko not because it’ll make me cry, but because it makes me think about why it makes me feel a certain way. I love knowing about his life before he painted each of his paintings because it adds depth and allows me to have my own thoughts. My problem with modern 21st century *SHOWS,* is that often times a show has a goal as art, but fails to satisfy the premise. Of Mice and Men satisfied its artistic goal to make one consider perspective and how these experiences limit human lives in the current systems. If you want to make art with the goal of “making you think (even if it’s something as morally basic as the trolly problem)” then it should an give you the critical pieces for it. This book set this up and demonstrates the themes of having a mental handicap, of being poor etc. It has darker elements and things don’t work out, but that doesn’t mean the book is morally absent. We are supposed to feel sorry for Lennie’s death even if he killed another human due to limitations and lack of support that could have prevented such an outcome. The book makes us feel emotions, open our eyes to how these systems affect us and even asks us if Lennies death was justified. This is a classic work because it stood the test of time. I am sure there are plenty of bad artworks from that time that tries and failed to tackled the same themes. Not all art is created equal either; see mediums like video games, movies, novels, songs etc. Without getting into media studies, Noam Chomsky, neoliberal economics and bunk, many artist today believe in a weird anti-skepticism. That instead of denying experiences to seek a fundamental truth, people instead believe everything is true and legitimate. There is a difference between ambiguous modern artworks (ex. A literal Urinal, Piss Christ) that seek to invoke questions in viewers, and art that refuses to approach anything even though their goal is to approach something and beg questions from audiences. 21st century shows are more focused on not saying anything, not taking stances, than making art that has actual ambiguous/grey morals that make us question things. ADDITION: With classical works, yes you can read them however you want but that’s always difficult. Our perspective on Achilles and Patroclus’s relationship is vastly difference from the context of the Greeks than even the translators who put it into English. What would be wrong, however, would be to assume that my perspective is always correct, as well as always equal to other answers. Broken record a bit, but poems are ambiguous so as to draw different emotions like a Rothko, but they aren’t always so empty to have no implications, or no suggestions at all. That’s what critical media studies is about; nuance, but not in a way that creates neutrality or nullifies the possible original message of the work. Death of the Author can be fascinating in cases where people may pull the “wrong” meaning from a work like how N*zi horror can become aspirational. Skepticism involves opening one’s ear: listening to answers, to knowledge, to art, to emotions, only the to deny all perspectives until you reach either an agreement or a truth; one which may never come. Not that I’m gonna die on the hill that is skepticism, but still. Even now I don’t think I’m right, and reading your comment has helped me further explain somewhat of what I originally meant. I also would be forgiving of the self and of others since we can’t help what we don’t know of course.

[@tempesttossed6029]

Agreed. The best episodes were the ones that had a clear stance to take on the subject that it depicted. The worst episodes were those that had no strong stance by the end. The best imo being Demon76 and Loch Henry (tho LH is simultaneously good and also disgusting for the fact that it is distributed by Netflix, a company that spits in the face of the morals Loch Henry abides).

[@jogeran4955]

TBH, if a demon came up to me and said "Choose 3 fascists to die, or the world will end", I would ask if 3 is the minimum, or the total, and if I could choose more.

[@72631]

mazey day IS so bad, but i have never been so tickled by such a ridiculous twist in my life. like what a way to give up on such a straightforward story

[@rare_edamimi_fangirl]

It isn't even really a twist, at least to me. I swear it was SO obviously foreshadowed that she was a werewolf, that even going into the episode knowing people consider it one of the worst, I thought "Surely the twist involves her _not_ being a werewolf, right???". But no. She was a werewolf. Despite how obvious it was. And at that moment, I fully understood (even more than I did from my boredom throughout the episode) why people hate this one. Easily the worst Black Mirror episode, it's not even close.

[@stellar1526]

I feel it's not unreasonable at all to ask about the themes of a Black Mirror episode, and to treat those as the end all be all of if the episode works. I don't think a work posing itself as provocative, satirical and even prophetic can pull the "it's not that deep bro." defence. Of course, you do need an actual story behind the themes so that you're not reading a tenth grade English essay on the big screen, but I digress. Great video Big Joel! Maybe let Medium Joel have a turn next time.

[@ardentspy]

if they're not that deep, they're just poorly written plodding thrillers.

[@sideways5153]

Yeah it’s either gotta be a decent thriller/horror or it’s gotta live up to its own pretentions. Failing at both just makes it kinda bad.

[@HellyeahRook]

I thought the guy didn't want them to investigate it because he didn't want the main character to find out that not only was his hero father a serial killer, but so was his mother. I think that is a MAJOR point of the show you completely missed - and I think it's a big aspect on the theme of the show. The main character ended up losing everything, his mother, the image of his her cop father, and his girl friend - in the pursuit of the documentary. I don't think that necessarily debunks your entire argument, they really could have done more, or told the story differently to show the damage true crime does and still keep the overall theme, but I still think you missed a big point that does add substance to the theme. Making it more entertaining. Oh and you missed the part where they did manufacture crime scene evidence collection film for the documentary. Which that happens in irl true crime shit!

[@نجمة-ت8د]

He didn’t know anything about his parents crimes though?

[@mazkerade]

10:15 that would be “fondling” or “groping”. At least that’s what I’d use

[@TheSorrel]

To me, this season fealt as if everyone in the writers room agreed to ditch Black Mirror and make a Horror Show instead, only the Author of Joan is Awful didn't get the memo.

[@IlNeige]

I will show up a tiny bit for Maisy Day being so pulpy with its twist. The ending is still dumb as hell, but using a werewolf as a metaphor for media provoking the worst behavior out of celebrities could’ve had legs.

[@shroomer8294]

Ive only ever watched one episode of black mirror and it had a little robot dog that pulled out a knife and I liked that. I don’t remember the episode but the robot doggy was very cute. Good robo dog 10/10

[@Bailf006]

Demon 79 is a weird one, and it raises murder up as its investigation for the episode, and I think that's nice and interesting, but I struggle with the conclusions that I think it comes to, and I wanna explain that. Because of the supernatural elements of the episode, it quickly becomes a trolley problem, twice over. Pulling the lever, ending a life, is argued to be the moral actions in the episode. I agree, killing one guy saves the world, its moral to kill that one guy. But then, in case that wasn't good enough, it layers on another trolly problem, using the supernatural elements of the episode. "NOT killing this guy will cause a lot of suffering". The episode shows us that she is empowered to do something good, to protect the lives of people, some of whom are actually innocent, and she fails to do that. No good is done by the end of the episode. And that's all well and good, because she literally sides with the demon, she is shown to hold a morally problematic position, by the end of the episode, and that's fine, until we translate the meaning of that messaging into the real world, without supernatural elements. "doing nothing is the same as being evil, and this will end the world" is a pretty fine, moral message, one that I'm okay with, and I assume other are too, that's what I'm assuming the message was because I want to be charitable, but it also enables a very dangerous reverse read: "killing people you think will do harm is moral, and can save the world." I think that message is dangerous. Any justification to end a life, obviously, has danger associated with it, people who will use that message to do harm, and then attempt to justify it, but I find it problematic that the show presents this justification as explicitly moral. It frames our knowledge about people as obvious ("haha, isn't this guy so evil? he would DEFINIELY do evil things in office! :D"), and then asks you why you don't kill those obviously bad people. It's not just giving you justification, its arguing FOR your justification. The episode is going on and enabling that justification. I had fun with the episode, but if I am right about the read I have on its moral questions, I think the messaging of it is actually really problematic and actually quite dangerous. Id hate someone to take away the message that YOU took away from the episode, Joel, "That we can justifiably kill those conservative politicians" is a truly terrible thing to be preaching. Murder, as it turns out, is morally problematic, and preaching a supposed moral justification that allows you to kill people is always evil. I definitely have concerns about you, given that you seem to be *okay* with murder being a take away of the episode, but I've watched a lot of your content, and I tend to like it, so I don't think you actually believe murdering people can be morally justified without a supernatural trolly problem, but I would urge you to think more carefully when presenting an idea like "its okay to murder certain people", even when those people are cartoonish evil, because once you strip away the cartoon stuff, and the supernatural elements, the message thats left over is almost always problematic.

[@AnABSOLUTEBarbarian]

18:51 I LOVED Demon 79. If it is a back door pilot for Red Mirror, please give us more.

[@SomeOne-vf1rs]

What is red mirror?

[@AnABSOLUTEBarbarian]

@@SomeOne-vf1rs the new concept to contextualize elements of modern issues through a horror lens, like Black Mirror does with tech and Demon 79 did with racism.

[@youtubeuser1159]

It was the worst episode of the season IMO

[@adamjscarborough5600]

It’s funny you noted the award as a mask as related to the mother’s mask - as someone from the UK, this doesn’t read as well and I never made that connection. That award is a BAFTA, a British Academy of Film and TV Award, so it’s like him holding up an Oscar, for UK watchers that mask aspect isn’t really so obvious.

[@Schmidtelpunkt]

There might be a little irony in there, but it is just the biggest media award in the UK, so there weren't that many options anyway...

[@adamjscarborough5600]

@@Schmidtelpunkt right - but they could have easily chosen/made up their own award, there’s no real reason to choose a BAFTA. I do think there’s something in Joel’s point about the award being an analogue of his mothers mask but I definitely didn’t read it that way, I think it’s just another example of how heavy-handed and basic black mirror has become.

[@tylershadlow5792]

There's no connection, Big Joel just didnt' know what it was and made a up a connection. I like the videos but he does just spout some crap sometimes

[@dd123928]

I can't describe the betrayal that is opening this expecting Joel to share in my hatred of Joan is awful for being stupid bullshit only to hear him say he likes it

[@tempesttossed6029]

Same

[@kazooha524]

Saaaame. I honestly didn’t enjoy any of them as much as older episodes, but Joan is awful is easily one of my most hated ones

[@Misspol222]

lmao same

[@Roadiedave]

I just saw way too much, in every episode, of "Lookie who we got to play a part! Isn't it cool?" bleeding into the meta-narrative. I guess it fits if the entire season was actually an extension of Joan is Awful, and the mirror was looking back at us saying "Look what I made you watch. You liked it, right? Of course you did. We got famous people. Ask me what it means!!" and effectively broke the 5th wall on its way out of existence via grand meaningless exposition with a final stop at Club Irony.

[@bassdasdwadsasdasw]

I think the word for hand sex is digital sex since you use your digits (fingers)

[@audiosurfarchive]

nice

[@joshraid1550]

To do the slightest bit of Mazy Day apologia, the whole thing about the werewolf is that it's a big secret she's ashamed of, and the story basically makes it so that their downfall comes from prying into her secrets like this. So it could have worked as a concept with more meat on it. They stuck their nose where it didn't belong and suffered the consequences.

[@owangejewice]

I thought the fun house levels of blood on all the walls at the end of across the sea took me right out of the episode. Nothing to feel but laughter. What did Josh Hartnett do in the VERY limited time he had to kill the wife and son? He dragged their bodies from room to room to wipe their bleeding bodies all over the walls? For what purpose? It's like how a 4 year old thinks a house would look after a murder.

[@infinite_array]

Wait, I don't get the robot body episode. Why didn't they just reverse positions? It'd be way easier to put the robots in space and keep the squishy humans on Earth.

[@dr.scrapjack2045]

Never seen the episode so idk if there is an explaination, but the first thing that comes to mind to me is the inevitable transmission lag, which is not that big of a deal if you have to spend leisure time with the family but it can be if you are remote-controlling a billion dollars worth of spacecraft.

[@SantosAl]

They are testing what the long term effects of space travel can have on the human body.

[@cisrot]

Personally I did really love this season. There was the odd stinker, but I genuinely did enjoy each episode for what it’s worth. It’s nothing like older black mirror, but honestly it was pretty enjoyable.. at least for me

[@mrbie2380]

I work in a university health promotion office and the official public health term for fingering is "digital penetration". Kills me a little bit every time I have to list that as a form of sex when I'm giving out sexual health presentation to freshmen bc there truly is just no word that isn't weird for it :'')

[@AntheanCeilliers]

Legit the plot to Beyond the Sea sounds like a parody

[@stephmadigan9817]

23:10 Terrifyingly, this has aged poorly after the wrongful death lawsuit/Disney+ terms and conditions thing...

[@drunkard103]

the biggest question i have about beyond the sea is... if they have robot bodies you can control from halfway across the solar system, why aren't the robots on the space ship and the humans on earth? i understand that it's because the story... but if the story has such a glaringly obvious solution to the human loneliness, factor, maybe they shouldn't have made it :')

[@prismological]

Black Mirror is more interested in faux edginess than interesting characters. I was going to say that it doesn’t care about interesting stories either, but… I can’t. Not in good faith. On the surface, these stories are interesting. Reading the plot summary, I can see the potential for something cool. But something happens between the premise and the release where all earnestness is bleached from the story with only vapid “edginess” remaining.

[@GlitzPixie]

What happens is bad writing

[@prismological]

@@GlitzPixie see I don’t think bad writing fully covers it. A lot of my favorite pieces of media are not written very well but have something concrete they want to say that I think is profound or the style is unique or the characters are interesting or… whatever. Essentially, they’re earnest. They believe what they say and say it proudly even if they say it poorly. Modern Black Mirror lacks that. It feels… sterile

[@GlitzPixie]

@@prismological I think most of the things you are describing are in fact part of the "writing" that goes into a TV piece.

[@GlitzPixie]

@@prismological but I do agree

[@dr.scrapjack2045]

In the immortal words of Felix Biederman, Black Mirror's essence has become "what if someone made an app that killed you".

[@mybrotherinchris]

the word for hand sex is handilingus

[@AveryAnarchy]

Demon 79 club let's go!!! as a spiritual person, it also gave me a particular perspective not everyone might. it would be hard considering the ending to the episode, but these characters, this whole "demons going through this initiation process by working with humans" universe, is such a fabulous idea, I'd love to see it expanded into a miniseries. that episode was such a hidden gem at the very end of a whole season of garbage. it's a bit sad, I wonder how many people gave up early on due to the other episodes not being great, and never saw that one. it was such a pleasant surprise, one of those pieces of media I will be thinking about for quite a while. other KZbinrs who covered this season really missed the message of Demon 79 and lumped it in with the werewolf episode for being "supernatural and weird"-so glad you liked it and nailed what it was trying to say

[@TheEvilCheesecake]

Spiritualism is begging someone else to take control of your life for you, because you are too lazy to do it yourself.

[@abby9448]

@@TheEvilCheesecakeOk

[@fallencyano9015]

​@@TheEvilCheesecake i see it as an attempt for people to make sense of the extreme chaos and randomness of the world

[@Mysterytour7]

I really like that you combined the silliest titles in Final Cut Pro.

[@d.w.stratton4078]

I award this season of Black Mirror the season that "Huffed the Most of Its Own Farts".

[@demeiyobech9819]

I know this might only be somewhat applicable, but it's CRAZY hearing this take about how it's inconceivable for companies to legally do things because of signing to terms and agreements through subscriptions and knowing about the recent situation where Disney refuses to pay a man who's wife was unalived at one of their parks BECAUSE he signed up for Disney+.

[@Zindaras1]

I really liked the comparison to whodunits around 5:04 because it highlights why some recent scary media hasn't worked for me: the ending seems like it's trying to disguise that the author ran out of ideas somewhere in the middle and is hoping you won't pick up on that. Just watched Skinamarink last night and spent the entire time hyperfocused on the shapes in the darkness and fully committing to the experience only to have the ending be so pointless that it turned all of that into wasted effort. (I also watched a few Explained type videos and none of them shared anything i had missed, they were basically just plot summaries, lmk if there's anything else better out there.) *Spoilers below* Like, it was such an interesting idea to have an all-powerful reality warping entity messing with the kids in the same way that the filmmaker is all-powerful in deciding what to show the rapt audience, but if both of them end up being so creatively bankrupt that all they can think of using their infinite power is to torture the kids for a really long time and then kinda disappear/depersonalize them... What's the point!? 😑

[@katiemckinney9456]

I can think of far more creative ways for a reality-warping entity to mess with a couple of random people. Just mildly inconvenience and annoy them at every possible opportunity. Steal only the right sock from each of their pairs. Make their soda immediately lose all the fizziness once the can is opened. A powerful entity who uses that power to do extremely petty stuff is far more interesting than "ooooh, I'm all-powerful and you can't outwit or get rid of me in any way! I'm gonna torture you for centuries! Look at how cool and awesome I am!"

[@Zindaras1]

@@katiemckinney9456 EXACTLY, THANK YOU

[@baconjakin4442]

Thank fuck. Thank fuck and thank Big Joel. Because when this season came out, and reviews were so mixed and positive at all… I was quite flabbergasted, and I was worried Joel would disagree with me. Not today!!

[@Kitsunelanie]

Black Mirror likes to think it's a thinking person's show, but it's instead a show for people who are convinced they're thinking people.

[@rayvenkman2087]

It’s a poor man’s OG Twilight Zone?

[@jeremysmith4620]

Beyond the sea just feels like the classic "fridging" trope from comics, the women in the episode and the trauma/violence they experience only serve to push the narrative of the male characters. There maybe could have been something more interesting and redeeming here about how the characters treat women like robots, while their consciousness inhabits a robot, only to serve them and normalize their more important male existences as typical masculine hero archetypes which would align great with the astronaut premise. The episode could have tried to say something meaningful about technology, about someone stripping the agency from actual human beings while asking if those male characters still qualify as human beings in that state of long distance existence, but nope. They didn't do that. They just fridged the women and thought, yeah this is good, lets put this on Netflix. Bleh.

[@mynaemismoos]

Joel giggling while saying “I came up with hand sex” was a highlight.

[@Zahaqiel]

Loch Henry and Joan is Awful taken together actually made me wonder if there was a dispute between the creators of Black Mirror and Netflix because in both cases the Netflix stand-in "Streamberry" is portrayed as actively exploitative and malign. Like they have a real hate-on for Streamberry. But then robots and werewolves and demons and I guess they got distracted?

[@void_pepsi6405]

ok so they're real human astronauts in space and they have robot avatars on earth that they beam their brain into why wouldn't you have real people on earth beaming their brains into robot astronauts in space. wouldn't that be a million times more sensible i didnt watch the episode so i'm sure they adressed that but what a stupid premise

[@painfulelegy812]

What happens if the uplink has an error? -Bots on ship: no longer function, cannot resolve the issue, delicate machinery could degrade and be fucked by the time they're up there. -Bots at home: they call the project manager, they send someone out on a car drive away.

[@alexandrac6177]

“What human would act like this” No human would. But she’s a werewolf. Checkmate, “big” joel

[@schmiddi5768]

I have to disagree about Loch Henry; what works for me is the idea of a very ugly, very personal, very unsatisfying story being reshaped by the True Crime media ecosystem into something sensationalized and viewer friendly. I don't know that we're supposed to feel the protagonist was inherently wrong to want to tell the story, so much as we're meant to consider the way that having it commodified and made into mass entertainment stripped the humanity out of it. Depressing, anticlimactic details like his girlfriend dying quietly in an accident become exciting layers of mystery for fans to debate. I think the idea is to make you consider that behind every cool True Crime doc that gets people talking and memeing and such there's a sad, frustrating story where ordinary people got hurt; obviously lots of people already know that, but with the way a lot of True Crime advertises itself it's also clear there are plenty of people who don't take the reality of the stories into account.

[@Sevenpuddingsx]

Only good part of Loch Henry was all the beautiful scenery of Scotland

[@icomeundone]

WHY is nobody talking about Hand Sex 😤

[@tirone7520]

how do i explain to someone who asks "why should plots be cohesive? why should there be a payoff? why should stories do storytelling?" how do i explain that to smn!!!! its ridiculous!!

[@dadiscoverychannel]

7:43 I haven't watched this season and have to ask if this is an actual shot from the episode or just a Big Joel edit. I've honestly come to expect that Black Mirror is so bad now that they would actually just motion track a JPEG of a spaceship over a black background for a scene transition

[@Jabadamazo]

This is such a shame to hear, man. The first 2-3 seasons were *so* good and felt like modern day Twilight Zone. The Bike Kid episode is still one of the most fucked up things I've ever seen. Idk what happened that made this show go downhill so much.

[@sokoshinbutsu6925]

Thank christ someone else agrees with me. Loch henry catastrophically failed at making its point. A killer was brought to justice and the town was saved. Things got better because of the documentary

[@paulunga]

Let's see if this one also ends with "I'm right, you can't change my mind".

[@_____snake]

They all seem to

[@pressplay167]

I know this probably isn’t true, but I feel like Aaron Paul was cast in Black Mirror after the whole Breaking Bad resurgence. I don’t have proof it’s just a feeling. He’s not a bad actor, I just don’t know why he of all people was cast.

[@HECKproductions]

i thought you black mirror was about technoligy and stuff you know since the titular black mirror is literally meant to be a screen apparently its werewolves and demons now ok

[@yuyukawa9104]

I think beyond the sea is just... Well, I don't like the two protagonists and how emotionally immature they are. How did they even become astronauts?

[@grepington]

The reason the bar owner in Loch didn't want him digging into the mystery was because he didnt want him to find out that his mom was involved. After he found out about it the moral objection was resolved. I would agree with the point being vapid if "true crime culture is fucked up and wrong" was a commonly heald belief. But in a world where Netflix makes a successful sexy Dahmer series and there are huge tiktok accounts where AI mockups of children talk about their own murders, we are far from that being the case.

[@syms6060]

I'm so glad you made this episode. Reading critical reviews about the season, I thought I was going crazy for liking those two episodes and deeply disliking Beyond the Sea. Glad it's not just me.

[@NerevarineKing]

I noticed a pretty large drop in quality after Season 3 and this is coming from someone who had plenty of issues with the season

[@tiwao2911]

Asking her to take the pic is just goading.

[@TheAutisticFrog]

1:33 i liked the egg guy

[@oceanusprocellarum6853]

uhhhhmmmmmm actualllly thats just a BAFTA have you heard about it? BAFTA bafta BAFTA bafta bfat bfaatatfa bafbattafb

[@kkhook3]

maisie day is a big more poignant than its given credit for. someone told me that the werewolf symptoms maisie experienced are similar to drug withdrawals. so if we're going off that, maisie was in a facility to help her work through a drug addiction. beau chasing money and chasing the story is the reason maisie died. the reason she never got the chance to recover. it reminds me of britney spears. that being said, it was very boring. and as someone who has never experienced or seen withdrawals, i wouldnt have known if it wasnt pointed out to me. the writers should have just made her a drug addict; the werewolf angle confuses the point

[@deathisabusinessman]

Your internal debate on whether to call it "fingering" or "hand sex" was what immediately made me like your video and become a new subscriber. Thank you, Big Joel.

[@samanthawright7053]

I actually loved Loch Henry’s message. I took it as a lesson in not putting your work and ego over your family and honor but played out in the most extreme way possible

[@isabellelessard6717]

Love Death + Robots > Black Mirror

[@king.2597]

I agree. I think it's interesting how different but similar these two shows are. Both revolve around some form of technology, but it seems as BM speaks about tech, while LDR directly uses tech in its process of creation.

[@eldritchzora]

In Beyond the Sea i really don't understand how these chauvinist weirdos became astronauts?? u can't just be like. a typical soldier and get shot into space with one other person... you have to go thru like, so much clearance. how could either of these unwell men be put into space? it's ridiculous

[@unluckyarachnides]

i like the cabinet 0:20

[@Pete_the_Fuzzball]

First time I think i've disagreed with Joel on so many points. Still fun to hear his take though :)

[@maddieb.4282]

It would be cool if you actually articulated those disagreements

[@BigJoel]

it's ok, to be clear, to simply like the episode where I did not lol. you don't need to articulate whatever, your disagreement is fine, to me

[@daviebananas1735]

@@BigJoelBut how can you defeat him like a true debate bro if he does not offer up his logic to be picked apart?

[@RymanRocks]

I've heard about 4 different people pitch Nebula and this was by far the best

[@YouTubeaccoubr]

I love demon 79, because it does one thing better than any of the other episodes from the season. Its just fun.

[@eterista3868]

It's funny how we no longer consider VHS, photo cameras, TV or even magazines etc. as a technology anymore. Joel also couple of times says there is "no technology in this episode". I just have to remind myself that also language (spoken and written) is also technology and one that is extremely important. From this season I like the first episode and also 4th and 5th. The third I also found quite boring and sometimes stupid. I'm totally not sure about the second one even couple of weeks after my first watching. Everyone hates the fourth one, but for me it was funny trashy b-horror that was totally crazy - on the first glance it looks silly and so much different from the rest of the tv show. It doesn't contain sci-fi elements, no futuristic technology, no familiar twists. But it doesn't matter from which genre BM draws - its resources were always old B-rated F&SF shows and films and there is no real reason why it can't be even horror for once. From the beginning of the show (even the pilot wasn't sci-fi) it centred around our media reality and human communication albeit with very dark vision - of things to come but also about how things already are. Mazey Day is very true towards this basic premise of BM and tells another story critical towards media. Twelve years after the first episode aired the world has changed, technology has changed and it doesn't make sense to be technophobic and accelerationistic anymore. Mazey Day nevertheless talks about technology albeit it's "just" photography and press - but whole tv show is changing direction from technodystopia towards more abstract, core premise of itself. There is good chance that show will not exhaust itself because of it and when audience gets used to it it can find new visions. Especially visions for the future, because in those 12 years world has changed and I think Charles Brooker wants to find vision of future where we are not totally screwed and we have at least some agenda and control of our fate. If we are able to confront - let's say - those werewolves inside of us.

[@CarrotConsumer]

He obviously means no future technology.

[@levischorpioen]

@@CarrotConsumer There was no future tech in BM's very first episode either. The show is not about future tech, or tech at all.

[@mynameisamon]

i think “beyond the sea” is less worried about patriarchy and not really about disposability at all - more focused on types of isolation (self/imposed) and qualia/identity in relationships - and yeah im slightly disappointed with the ending for different reasons “loch henry” less about objections to the process of making true crime media or true crime media in and of itself - more about the moral ambiguity of the storytelling of atrocities and unfortunate events within the spectrum that encompasses art media and entertainment “demon 79” not about disposability but how marginalization leads to extremism leads to death and destruction - shared identity impacts perspectives and motives (we end up rooting for the demon ie “evil”) and personal needs/desires vs greater good lots more to say - like i think youre way off about “play test” 😁 its not saying cool tech is bad - its about dealing with problems through escapism - the tech kills him but more importantly its the avoidance of his family issues that comes back to get him in general i think i would also be disappointed with someones work not living up to my perception of their intended effect - but it feels like youre missing key ideas within the text honestly i think it would be fun to watch and discuss movies and shows with you @BigJoel 🥰

[@klutterkicker]

4:40 Reading too much into it. Black Mirror doesn't make dedicated political deconstructions, it makes entertaining shorts that show a distorted version of our society, with an emphasis on how we interact with technology, to make the viewer feel excited and uneasy and maybe think a little deeper about what we could become. I haven't watched your previous vids but Is this an issue you've had with a lot of episodes in the past?

[@AlfoMedia]

thought Loch Henry and Beyond the Sea were good but Joan of Awful was godddd awfulllll. didn't really think much of the other two

[@MrNeodylliphan]

"You can't theme your way out of boring storytelling". I think Bladerunner would very much disagree.

[@bigkoalaVI]

not having watching the episode/show, take this with a grain of salt :) I think Joel overlooked the possibility that the 'Joan is Awful' was not a commentary on companies directly seizing the right's to people's likenesses and lives through Terms & Conditions BUT rather third parties using algorithmic deep-learning models (inarticulately labelled as "artificial intelligence") to steal created works of art (writing, visual, performance, music, etc.), distort them in an creative-less process, and then profit off of those distortions. since artists put themselves into their art, it would follow that a theft of their art is a theft of their likeness, life, and being.

[@Ludanc0]

Glad to know I'm not the only one hating Ep3 for how it treats the wife and son like objects of a lame plot.

[@julianlaresch6266]

The point about true crime leaving out facts to reveal them at the last minute reminds me of the netflix doc on eliza lam. In the first episode they tell you how the maintenence man finds eliza with the lid of the tank open; he slams it shut in shock. They spend the majority of doc asking how she could have possibke gotten in the tank and then closed it- a question they answered before it was even asked.

[@jestersudz6085]

this inspired me to watch Demon 79. You're right, it was a really fun watch!