Bike Packing Maintenance & Rusting Gold Chains | GCN Tech Clinic

[@gcntech]

🔧Leave your tech questions in the comments 👇

[@JayLato]

Did Jon dent the bell? and also rupture Ollie’s right ear drum?

[@JonCannings]

​@@JayLatoyes, and yes

[@alexalderthay4346]

Still waiting for @JonCannings to get his own show - GCN Retro. 🤷

[@Mo.Jo.MTB_101]

#askgcntech Hi Alex, Olli and Manon I'm new to road riding (have been MTBing for about 20 years) and I'm riding my dads old Scott Sppedster S1 my question is would there be a noticeable upgrade in shifting performance if I changed the Ultegra 6700 to a 105 7000 groupset? Thanks for your answer and love your show Mo

[@IraklyShanidze00X]

While listening to this I just had an eureka moment: who don’t we lubricate inner tubes???

[@OliverKnittel]

I see John Cannings, i click.

[@JonCannings]

Aww thanks

[@seascape]

Didn’t you once promise us a tour of your bike collection? Still hopeful!@@JonCannings

[@JonCannings]

@@seascape the state my workshop is in right now... I am embarrassed 😳

[@flyborgify]

haha same where you been?

[@JonCannings]

​@@flyborgifyI got lost on the way to work!

[@wotexpat9367]

Jon is making a comeback!!! Awesome to see. Welcome back Jon. We missed ya. :)

[@JonCannings]

Hi, thanks for the message! Ollie gave me a call, and I said "go on then mate, I'll show my face!"

[@01FozzyS]

Not one, but two weeks with Jon! Thanks again for the visits!

[@JonCannings]

You're welcome!

[@gcntech]

We can't get away from him! 👀

[@timlister1840]

More John Cannings, please. Ollie & Eugene are great, but occasional guest appearances of John would be fantastic.

[@JonCannings]

Eugene and Ollie are the dynamic duo!

[@Adritzel90]

@@JonCannings Trio! Bert and Ollie with modern and you with all the retro bikes content!

[@gcntech]

Variety is the spice of life but Jon's got work to do behind the scenes! 👀

[@markusmencke8059]

Good to see Jon once in a while. 🙂🙂🙂

[@JonCannings]

Cheers

[@peterthomas8053]

Or 'twice in a while' as is the case.😜 But you're correct, it is great to see him again 👍

[@gcntech]

You can have too much of a good thing 😉

[@peterthomas8053]

😂

[@JonCannings]

Lots of new fangled tech talk. Waxed chains, TPU inner tubes. I BLOODY LOVE TECH

[@tinman7551]

John !! 🥰😍❤️ I’ve dreamt about seeing you again on GCN tech. With absolutely no disrespect to the wonderful hosts of GCN but Man I’ve missed you. 🙌🏻👏🏻🙏🏻

[@JonCannings]

Hi, cheers for the love. It was nice to help out the lads! I needed to make sure they were doing a good job too 😉 Which they are, Ollie and Alex are brilliant!

[@gcntech]

What a dream that must have been! Did it live up to expectations?

[@Mavczers]

Also about the bike going to the right - sometimes you think you are sitting straight but you are not. So it can be a bike fitting issue. Or even scoliosis, having one leg shorter and moving the hip one side more than the other.

[@questgivercyradis8462]

Yeah I was thinking the most obvious answer to the bike veering right would be the rider more than the bike. Most of us are lop-sided in some way or another even without something like scoliosis or uneven length legs. My right leg is stronger but less stable than my left. My right arm is stronger. My left hip has better mobility. It contributes to wear-and-tear type injuries too, because my right knee is the one to get achy first. Rider should check their mobility and proportional strength with a trainer before blaming the bike.

[@litespud]

When the rear tire wears out I transfer the front to the rear and put the new tire on the front. You want (1) better braking traction, and (2) better puncture resistance on the front, so the front wheel always gets the better, newer tire

[@BTcycle]

2 of the biggest bike nerds answering bike questions. Yes, please!

[@gcntech]

The other big bike nerd will back for next week's clinic! 🙌

[@massimocaradonna3857]

Yes PLEASE MORE CANNINGS !!!!

[@gerardotelese5337]

LOOK WHO IS BACK!!!!

[@JonCannings]

"Back again? Cannings' back, tell a friend" Eminem 2002

[@compassionsix]

Getting ready to start bikepacking across the USA, thanks for the timely chain info!

[@JonCannings]

Have a great ride. Very jealous!

[@ltu42]

Drip wax: I was going on a tour and used Squirt as a backup/top up lube. I measured that 1 drop per roller sums up to 3 g per chain, so a 10 ml eye drop bottle is good for 3 uses. Also, if you're cheeky, you can hot wax the chain in an Airbnb kitchen, you don't need a lot of tools, think about that. Finally, you can pack one or two pre-waxed chains. Have a great time!

[@gcntech]

Enjoy the ride! You'll love it we're sure 🙌

[@arnasg2230]

I have the same problem of the bike leaning when riding hands free! And i can asure everyone, it IS NOT THE INNER CABLING OR THE WEIGHT OF GEARS ETC!

[@davidferris4299]

Great to see John on the show 👍

[@feedbackzaloop]

One more aspect of self-steering bike: slight discrepancy in saddle pressure. Maybe a hint to check for scoliosis

[@MATTHIAS-bm2sw]

Regarding the worn out rear tyre. I always place the new tyre on the front & the stick the old front tyre on the rear. Think about it? It's far more important to have optimal traction on the front as rear will follow. 😁

[@gcntech]

How about if you were heading out for a big event? Would you treat yourself to new tyres?

[@arcoulant87]

Jon back ! he's the man

[@user-cx2bk6pm2f]

What a treat to have Jon on !

[@gcntech]

One time treat for you all 👌

[@edfred4397]

This new guy seems to know his stuff! Well done GCN 👏

[@gcntech]

We found him in a dusty corner of GCN HQ ... Seems to think 23mm tyres are the norm, nobody tell him 😉

[@SnaxNoCo]

The issue with using drip wax on something like the Tour Divide is that many riders won't have enough downtime for the wax to dry since they sometimes only sleep a few hours at a time. I think it's probably better to wipe the chain and use a wet lube like Silca Synergistic, knowing that your drivetrain will be shot be the end anyway. And this is coming from a guy who LOVE wax--but who also has experience with ultra-endurance racing.

[@Adritzel90]

Miss the bike builds with Jon, i hope he is back for a lot of videos.

[@JonCannings]

What bike build was your favourite? What would you like us to build in the future?

[@matt_acton-varian]

My wheel suggestion, ref cup and cone bearings, is to get a wheel built to your specifications. Shimano Tiagra/105 hub(cup and cone bearings but so great when well maintained) laced up with Kinlin XR or a Mavic rim. Mavic still make the Open Pro UST rim with braking track, and is still a popular choice for wheelbuilders speccing for high quality and robust wheels.

[@JonCannings]

Great tips here. Plus these days you can often find really good deals on this type of product 👍👍👍

[@endcensorship874]

Generally speaking, when I buy new tires I try to buy three: because two rear tires will last as long as one front tire.

[@gcntech]

some good advice there!

[@stephenturkLA]

If the races of your cup and cone bearings are excessively pitted, what you need is a new hub not a new wheel! There are still plenty of rim brake hubs available.

[@sbccbc7471]

Some cup-&-cone hubs have replaceable cups, like Campagnolo and Fulcrum.

[@chrisbaum998]

Love seeing John Canning making some guest appearance!!!

[@gcntech]

Enjoy it now! We're putting him back to work behind the scenes

[@aros9r2001]

More Jon!!!

[@Boopop1024]

The man, the legend!

[@gcntech]

Ollie?

[@nmcelroy3540]

Omg! It’s Jon! It’s been so long…this is surely a treat!!! 🍿

[@JonCannings]

Maybe a trick or treat?! Who knows. But one thing is certain, it was really nice to be able to impart some knowledge on you all! ❤️

[@zdm5290]

11:00 In countries that drive on the right side, the crown of the road will also be to the right, causing the front wheel to steer downhill. Also if it can simply be corrected by a slight shift in weight, it's possibly just their weight being skewed to the right. As a mechanic, I've ridden bikes with poorly dished wheels and the like that ride perfectly straight without hands. It's probably not the bike.

[@FML22]

Great to see Jon back in front of the camera! Just like old times!

[@PDQCycleCoaching]

Great to see you back John

[@LegSpinna]

Wooooohhhhhh Jonny Jonny! Jonny Jonny Jonny Jonny Jon Cannings!

[@JonCannings]

Haha!!!

[@marksmith6007]

Jon Cannings!!!!! Instant Like.

[@VictorElGreco]

I recently rode the Erie Canalway, all the way up to Buffalo, NY. The trail, being obviously next to water and all that ambient moisture, is perpetually muddy. The crucial bit IMHO is *cleaning* the chain after every ride, getting all the mud out. The lube you put on afterwards can be whatever you happen to have at hand.

[@danhouston7596]

A celebrity cameo! Great to see Jon again.

[@uncleants]

KMC's EPT coated chains are genuinely rust resistant. Most coatings aren't. EPT is anti-bling though.

[@JonCannings]

Ah yes! I remember these. They also make the RB series too. Ideal for urban/commuter bikes 👍👍

[@uncleants]

@@JonCannings I think EPT may have replaced the RB chains now. I have to say having tried daily commuting on waxed chains that I don't think it's appropriate in the UK. Water isn't so much the big issue, you can flush that out with some meths or IPA. Salt is the real chain killer here. Other than looking dull as ditch water (and allegedly not holding wax well), I see no downsides to the EPT chains for winter use. They are no heavier, shift as well and unlike most coatings, the coating is applied to pins and rollers as well as plates. Just a shame they aren't gold :)

[@otterplay-m1k]

I put the front tire in the rear and a new one on the front

[@sbccbc7471]

That's the way.

[@adamminshull4576]

John Cannings - top guy !

[@haraldfries7463]

@mlboulerice116 : If you have the same type in the front and the rear I would replace the rear when it's worn, but put the new tyre at the front. And the old front tyre to the rear. This way you allways have "fresh" rubber and more importently the newer tyre at the front. You need more grip and better protection at the front because a flat (or sliding) rear tyre is much more easy to control. With diffrent size tyres or tubless do as Ollie and Jon suggest.

[@Horstelin]

We missed you Jon!

[@JonCannings]

thanks ❤️

[@jctothel]

Thank god Jon is back!!!

[@RenAigu]

I hear many people let the rear wear, then put the front on the rear and than a new tyre on the front. This way you always have a fresh tyre on the front. Many say that grip on the front is more important than on the rear; front slips you eat dirt, rear slips you can often safe it by your momentum.

[@gcntech]

Great point! As a money saving tips or in a pinch this can be done but a fresh set of tyres is always going to be the best option 👌

[@RenAigu]

@@gcntech Yeah, but in my experience the rear wears so much faster than the front, visually at least, replacing or essentially throwing away a only ~ 5% worn front tyre because you want to replace your 80% worn rear tyre seems wasteful, not only economically. Before a race or long adventure sure, but as a commuter or just riding in the local area I don't see the point

[@Auszeit]

I usually hot wax my quick link, and wipe off most of the wax to refit it. It's not just the wax but the additives which provide the lubrication, and those won't necessarily be able to be wiped off while refitting, even though the wax might.

[@RelakS__]

Wax and quick link. I just put together the whole chain then how wax it. When I put it on the bike, I do not remove the quick links, and also take enough care to keep the half links in the chain. This way the wax may not fall out of that pin.

[@Local.hero.1983]

Jon Cannings is the best thing to come out of the Superbike fiasco, Manon has been in hiding regards studio since , so we get Jon back if Alex is away.

[@peterthomas8053]

On the subject of the bike veering to one side, there is also the possibilty of the rider having a slight tendancy to be leaning to one side more than the other, as a natural physical attribute. Just a thought.🤔

[@gcntech]

Great point! That's why we love the Clinic, share ideas 🙌

[@jonathanmartinrehabandrun9004]

Yes, the most likely imbalance is the rider. Unless someone spends a lot of time working on their posture and core strength they will have more tightness in one side of their lower back muscles than the other. Which will when riding no handed lead to a slightly increased pressure on one side of the saddle leading to the bike veering. Which then requires the rider to adapt their posture somewhere else to compensate.@@gcntech

[@mikefule]

In the UK, where we ride on the left, the bike crabbing slightly to the right may simply be the effect of road camber. Counterintuitively, a bike will tend to want to turn up the camber.

[@gcntech]

A few people have mentioned road camber! Food for thought 👀

[@mikefule]

@@gcntech I'm a road unicyclist as well as a bicyclist and motorcyclist. A unicycle always turns up the slope of the camber. It's to do with the contact patch and the slight difference in the radius of the wheel across its width. For simplicity, imagine a cone rolling across a slope. If the narrow end of the cone is up the slop, the cone will turn up the slope.

[@wordupcornflake]

johno back again

[@rbonn3880]

Very helpful. You make a really nice team...

[@gcntech]

The old school duo 🙌

[@RichardMaguire110]

A gold chain is like a red frame, they both make the bike faster.

[@JonCannings]

Fact!

[@HighFell]

JC is back…. GCN should get an App where people can chat bike stuff… sounds like a job for JC 👍

[@SteevyTable]

My method for tire wear is let the rear wear out, move the slightly worn front to the rear, and put the new tire on the front.

[@kidShibuya]

Ok but how do you actually use drip on wax? When I use it, it beads on top of the chain then just drips off. None of it seems to enter the chain, it prefers to wax my floor.

[@SebastianTominec]

Best chain against rust is any KMC chain with EPT(electro plating) process applied to the chain.

[@mattszrejter6785]

Welcome back Jon!

[@eddiewards123]

I've had my gold KMC chain lose its gold coating after maybe 5 months, cleaning it using a citrus degreaser and organic degreaser from time to time. Then drying with a water displacer spray. Now I've lost the gold coating, the rust is very fast appearing!

[@JonCannings]

Interesting! there must be something in the citric that attacks the coating.

[@eddiewards123]

@@JonCannings my thoughts as well. Which is sad as I've now lost ~1000watts because of it

[@savagepro9060]

Basic physics tells me that 'rolling resistance' is the act of applying brakes!

[@mikedellar5653]

A microfibre cloth is not a magnet for dirt. As you run the chain over the cloth, you will just push dirt between the rollers; hence you will be putting new lube/wax onto dirt. This, however, is better than no lube at all; so if you’re on a long trip (300km+) do what you need to.

[@urouroniwa]

Inner tube rolling resistance: The rolling resistance is reduced by allowing the tyre to deform to the bumps. This means that you aren't causing the whole bike to move up and down. Moving 80 kg up even a few mm takes a lot of energy. The easier it is to deform the tyre, the less energy is used to move the rider up and down. The deformation of the tyre is mostly a function of the tyre pressure (less pressure is easier to deform than more pressure) and the compliance of the sidewall. When the tyre squishes, though, it has to squish both the sidewall and the inner tube. So the overall rolling resistance has to take into account how easy it is to deform the inner tube! Latex tubes stretch much more easily than butyl tubes which is why they reduce the rolling resistance of the tyre and also provide better comfort. Or at least that's my current understanding. Tomorrow I might think that's all bollocks, but today it makes sense to me 🙂

[@JonCannings]

Yeah, it makes sense plus it's why traditionally cotton side wall tyres were a smoother ride, as they tended to flex more when encountering a stone for instance. The tyre would temporarily change shape to go "over" the stone. Whereas a cheaper less flexible tyre would be a harsher impact. Easier to explain visually than through my terrible writing! 😂

[@playandteach]

Waxed chain on a long trip - better hope it's dry weather. Also with the Silca top up wax, aren't you supposed to wait 24 hours to ride again? On the question of hands free veering - rider position could also be a factor.

[@tychoMX]

Yese, YES!!!!!! Yay Jon!

[@une_olive]

If you only change the rear tire, the front one might start to get old and loose its performance. I only swap front/rear once at the approximate half life of the tire (~2000-2500km) so they both equally get worn out completely at the same time. Btw I'm tubeless and I sometimes fix puncture completely with patches inside from time to time, so they are getting out anyways (tire plugs don't last for ever).

[@GregLanz]

I wax the quick link. I just put the chain back together before placing it in the wax, never had an issue

[@arcoulant87]

See you on the GDMBR I start beginning of July.

[@simonsepic]

In response to if coated chains prevent rust I can tell you from personal experience rhat yes 100% coatings stop it. I have a child's tag along I put a red one by chain on so it's quote thick chunky layer of paint and hardly worn as pbviosly I pull him he doesn't strain the chain. Sadly I managed to forget I left it in my garden through all the rain over the last few months. I'm gonna have to replace the real wheel take off the cassette but guess what. The chains immaculate!!!

[@simonsepic]

One speed chain rather than one by sorry

[@mrx1979ua]

Weird. I've always hot waxed the quick link and works great. Never had an issue with intalling

[@bikecommuter24]

Waxing chain on a long trip, hah get a belt drive bicycle problem solved. 😆 On the the tire I tend to replace both tires if one is worn out, I do keep the front as spare if I damage one and I need to order one I use the old spare to keep riding, my Bicycle is my transportation.

[@gcntech]

Belt drive is a pretty great fit and forget system! Did you catch our recent video on commuter/touring tech 👉kzbin.info/www/bejne/mZfXoaWBj7lnias

[@BigBeezyBtown]

I asked a engineer friend who works with 3D printing and metals, and he told me that anodizing makes metals more brittle, and suggested I avoid using anodized chainrings, etc. I bet the same goes for chains too.

[@JonCannings]

I was 13. I didn't know what anodising was. I put some QR skewers on a gas hob to try and remove the purple colouring. I turned them into ash! 😂😂

[@savagepro9060]

0:15 Jon Cannings alloted time is One Week!

[@JonCannings]

Thanks for letting me know 👍

[@tamarastrulik7419]

#askgcntech To the tire swap I would replace the rear tire when it's needed with the front one and put a fresh one in the front cause a lot of tires in the front will not get changed really often and become porous and maybe fail

[@skulluxe1]

Bike veering to the right could also be the camber of the road… depending on what side of the road you are on… roads are slightly angled to promote drainage of water off the road to the side to prevent pooling. Depending on how much of an angle it could affect your bike to pull to the side. Even runners get an injury due to the difference of running on the slight cambered angle…

[@JonCannings]

This is very true! In the UK our roads are in such bad condition that there is no camber, they're full of holes 😔

[@billkallas1762]

You should have Jon on the Tech show once a month.

[@gcntech]

He's got lots of work do it ... not sure we can spare him👀

[@billkallas1762]

@@gcntech I know that Jon works behind the scenes, but you could spare him for one day a month. I'm not sure if Tom still works for you, but an occasional appearance would also be fun.

[@YorkshireTeaDrinker]

@johncannings the only person at GCN who knows the importance of a 3.5mm Alan key….IYKYK!

[@dirkgross1603]

For the right leaning bike, it could be the crown of the roadway pavement affecting it (on right side of the road riding vs. UK left). If it's safe, ride on the other side and see if it's the same thing.

[@JonCannings]

Our roads in the UK are so battered we have forgotten what the crown is 😔

[@alexanderscott2567]

When your waxed chain is in need of service, disengege it, remove it, then reingage it for the service. This way, the quick link is serviced at the same time. It doesn't tke rocket surgery to figure this stuff out. When you are riding, your brain is free to do many things. Use it for simple things, like how to figure out how to maintain a chain, or flush a toilet, etc..

[@timtaylor9590]

all my bike develop a right side lean. when new they dont lean at all but after a few months its there for good.

[@gcntech]

That's very interesting, why do you think that is?

[@timtaylor9590]

@@gcntech no clue tbh

[@andrewmcalister3462]

When I still ran tubes, it was always new tyre to front, front to back, back to bin. Now that I run tubeless, they are installed for life, no rotating of tyres between front and back.

[@gcntech]

Interesting! Why do you stop the rotation when using tubeless?

[@andrewmcalister3462]

@@gcntech too much faff and mess once sealant is already inside.

[@stephencharles6932]

Requested a join for Jon Cannings on a well known social media site and never heard back!

[@JonCannings]

Public profiles only 😂

[@gcntech]

Don't take it personally - you don't want to see what's going on there 🤣

[@LaurentiusTriarius]

When you wipe your waxed chain if the wax had PTFE in it you will see a lot of black dust and it's normal, if you see grey paste with sparkly bits that's no bueno: decontaminate...

[@grantchandler8294]

Shimano chains are notorious for rusting. Kmc ti nitrite chains and sram xx1 are far more resistant to rust. My sram chain is best by far over 12 months old and not a hint of rust or wear

[@ellisroe6527]

#ASKGCNTECH Hi Guys, I'd like to know if you can confidently recommend from your own personal experience any shoe covers that are actually water proof (not just 'waterproof' as stated by the brand). My shoes are Specialized Torch 3.0's and I've tried multiple shoe covers that claimed to be 'waterproof'. After one or two rides in properly wet weather, my feet get almost as wet as when I wasn't wearing them. I have also taped the little vent on the bottom of the shoe shut to prevent water from getting in there, and it didn't prevent them from getting soaked. Thanks!

[@27gw27]

What’s the best way to make sure your bike is level on an indoor trainer? I have a Wahoo Kicker but can’t see a way to make sure the bike is level when on it as it would be outside?

[@markp353]

With all due respect gentlemen, (and I respect your expertise and your wealth of knowledge and have learnt a lot from you both) but your advice on tyre swapping on this occasion I believe is incorrect. IF you are replacing only one tyre, regardless of how much work is involved, you ALWAYS put the best tyre on the front. Unless you have just replaced the front tyre and it only has 200-300kms on it. Your front tyre does most of the braking and has the most influence when cornering and keeping you upright. Take your car for example when you replace two tyres only, where do the mechanics put the new ones even if it is the rears that are worn - on the front. Why, because it is SAFER, provides greater cornering grip and provides you with the best possible braking performance. Why would you not want this when riding your bicycle.

[@PhilgooHan]

Not sure why Ollie keeps saying wax will come off with water. Unless you're pouring boiling hot water wax will repel water and stay on.

[@dstamatiou]

#askgcntech Greetings. I enjoy the practicality of CO2 cartridges and would like to know if it is advisable to use with TPU inner tubes?

[@SebastianTominec]

No, because TPU tube could become brittle as it freezes.

[@chrisdavidson911]

Bike not going in a straight line; non-straight posture resulting in leaning to the left actually being straightening up, or, left hand drive road camber?

[@TheWaxChainFanClub]

Hi, I have been steadily collecting a small jar of smegma, I hear this makes excellent chain wax when treated over a bain marie. Thoughts?

[@esoxcycles]

"Is this a waxed chain special?" "Things have changed" yeah the channel sponsor has changed

[@bnzboy]

Jon!!!!!!

[@zygmuntthecacaokakistocrat6589]

Who would have guessed that micron-thick Ti-N coated chains were just for the bling value, and the coating had no value for wear resistance nor corrosion protection? Maybe get a Wippermann Connex 'gold' (brass-plated) chain and get all the purported benefits of Ti-N.

[@jordanbell4331]

Having a waxed chain seems nice, but I tried it here in New York and basically after one ride out in damp conditions (wasn't raining, just a bit of water on the ground and fog) it was making noises. I checked the chain after ~100 miles and it had rust and looked a mess really. What would you suggest for those of us that cant ride in Mallorca all year round, but want the waxed chain system to work?

[@colinfisher2463]

Jon’s back with his straight forward answers! Oli do you dream of waxed chains??? Your obsessed.

[@benconnor4848]

Jon Cannings!!!

[@oplkfdhgk]

only 2 months? i think i have done that much on waxed chain with no extra added wax during that 2 months and yes i do ride every day and in pretty bad weather too.

[@shamendra.sakthivel]

#askgcntech Hi guys, do I need to take any extra precautions when washing my bike with a waxed chain? Is it fine if I just wipe it afterwards or should I re-wax the chain? Thanks.

[@overcookit1433]

It depends on how (hand pressure sprayer or something like Kärcher) and how often you clean your bike. I only clean it when it is predictable dry for several days, and then I only spray some shampoo on and use a hand pressure sprayer to rinse the soap off. While doin so, I take care not to get soap on the chain. I rewax it when it does not feel "waxy" any more, but I never had rusty chains. When I accidentally rode in the rain, I immediately wipe the chain dry, and rewax it later.

[@jhiguchi]

#askgcntech Somewhat related to the question in today's video regarding rotating tires. If one is only replacing the rear tire as it wears and leaving the front alone, is there a point where the front would need replacing before the tread wears out? In short; is there an expiry date on tires after x amount of time on the road? I've read things about rubber compounds aging and cracking, but I've had some front tires for 10+ years that still seem fine and run well. Am I risking catastrophic failure?

[@PoulHansenDK]

If a slightly worn headset bearing has been out and put in again. The wear that would make it center can now be to one side. Not very probable but possible.

[@BenMurphy-h3u]

I currently have a genesis Equilibrium Disc road bike run 11 Speed Ultegra FC6800 cranks in 175mm and I want to go shorter on the crank length. I am about 5' 10", I believe the frame to be the correct size for me, so assuming this and assuming the rest of the fit is ok and I'm of average proportions for my height, what length (or range of length) crank would you recommend, also will newer 11 speed shimano cranks, 105 or Ultegra work with this set up

[@sbccbc7471]

Since your groupset is 11-speed, the newer 105 FC-R7000 and Ultegra FC-R8000 are completely compatible. If you're getting the latter, make sure it's made in 2020 or later.