Biohistory: using science to prevent the decline of the West - an interview with Jim Penman

Jim Penman PhD has produced the most exciting historical theory, one which is scientifically testable and which apparently explains patterns and cycles in human history. But, this theory also indicates the West is on a decline at a physiological level; what can we do to stop it? Please visit Biohistory.org.
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[@anonperson3972]

This opens up a couple of questions, Can the cycle be broken? If it is hardwired into human biology and the conditions created by high C lead to conditions that diminish C, can that process be circumvented? SHOULD the cycle be broken? What would it take to break the cycle and keep high C permanently? State-enforced poverty and forced adherence to certain cultural norms? How much harm would you have to cause to do this? What consequences would this have on innovation? Also, from an ecologist's perspective, we need a decline in the population at times; growth cannot continue forever because, eventually, resources will run out. If you attempt to keep growth going forever, you will have a more significant fall. If large C causes a significant fall, which causes prolonged periods of high S, will human populations eventually become S dominated for long periods? This makes me think the future will most likely be like Dune, highly hierarchical, conservative, religious and ascetic.

[@poleag]

You can try to fight the inevitable decline of your society with pharmaceutical and philosophical intervention (which most people will reject for a litany of reasons) or simply accept the cyclical nature of civilization. For example, if American society declined, then perhaps some family-oriented, fertile group such as the Mormons or Mennonites would inherit the country. Is this really a problem for any of us to fix? It would be strange to live in a world without the constant rise and fall of cultures.

[@joeprimal2044]

Very good thought, thanks. Adapt and thrive. It is after all that constant challenge and adaptation that has made us who we are. If we use some technical process to prevent the need to adapt we doom ourselves over the long run.

[@joeprimal2044]

Don't fix the cycle, it's not broken. Adapt and thrive. It is after all that constant challenge and adaptation that has made us who we are. If we use some technical process to prevent the need to adapt through these cycles we doom ourselves over the long run.

[@harmonicseries6582]

22:10 The guy is pretty much arguing that middle eastern people are barbaric and savage, so they are incapable of living under democratic governments. Note how he has associated "migratory" with "warlike" on the bottom right of his picture. He says they have "conservative" behaviour. Earlier he contradicts himself on Polish people, saying they defended themselves against Spaniards because they wanted to be ruled by someone who "looked like them", and he puts them on the opposite of the spectrum to his "conservatives."

[@grippercrapper]

I don't think he is making a moral judgment value out of distinguishing between higher "C" societies and lower "C" societies. He's more describing the population's temperament. Furthermore, is it really evil to claim that some populations on this planet are more suited to impersonal government types like democratic republics than others? How many thriving free democratic nations are thriving in the middle east anyway?

[@grippercrapper]

I just reread your comment and I'm not sure how you mistaked the Polish for the Dutch. He was talking about the Dutch resisting Spanish rule.

[@harmonicseries6582]

@@grippercrapper I don't care about the "evilness", but making such claims requires strong scientific evidence. Lack of a free society at this exact point in history does not prove anything, there could be plenty of alternative hypothesis for that. Historically there has been thriving free societies in the middle east, and there would have been at present time if it wasn't for the conflict and chaos over the oil resources. Regardless, what I was pointing out was the contradiction within his claims.

[@grippercrapper]

I know this comment is late, but can we agree that the rise of flat earthers is an expression of our society losing "C" fast?

[@Castle3179]

Flat Earthers, "Alternative medicine", Anti-vaxxers, Social Justice Warriors etc.

[@BillJoslin]

Outstanding!

[@wedas67]

What the F ! Those are Machiavelli’s ideas inspired by Ibn Khaldoun discussing cycles of civilization

[@ElectricQualia]

I see some holes here. The west is very irreligious , as opposed to islamdom and india. Seems like there is a difference between religion as a culture and belief and religion as a disciplinary practice. Also religious communities tend to be more fertile across all societies.

[@SverreMBDohmen]

The Roman Empire didn't collapse because of German's tribe invasion. It collapsed after the islamic onslaught. Please see • Mohammed and Charlemagne by Henri Pirenne • Mohammed & Charlemagne Revisited: The History of a Controversy by Emmet Scott

[@ElectricQualia]

Sverre M.B. Dohmen the roman empire got split into 2 halves before muhammad was even born. The western part ceased to exist also before he was born. The eastern part, had 20 year long brutal war with the persian empire before it was taken over by the islamic conquests. And even then it didnt totally end until the 15th century. Charlgmane is a germanic frankish king that has nothing to do with the roman empire. Sorry

[@grippercrapper]

@@ElectricQualia - Maybe he is confusing the Roman Empire with the Holy Roman Empire.