Bishop John Shelby Spong -- His last public lecture

[@nzinaz]

Farewell, beloved "radical" bishop who advocated love, acceptance, and understanding. You helped the church--and society--grow more open, more inclusive. Hearing your words and reading your books helped many of us sharpen our critical thinking skills, and not just about religion. RIP, great teacher, author, activist, scholar, leader. You touched many lives. ✝️🤍💜

[@racheladkins6060]

Maybe this IS what the church IS in Gods Thinking but we don’t believe it? We’d rather believe Medieval Roman Pagan Domination through FEAR of Northern German Pagan and Roman and Greek Mythology. Hell is the Goddess of the Northern Viking pagan beliefs. Hades is The God of Greek and Death is an Angel of Hebrew world.

[@yenbui1495]

Well put. Many thanks.

[@ChrisMusante]

Fear is the beginning of everything. Beit wisdom with understanding, or even more fear - that we are driven to run like fools until we are able to find it.

[@tomy8339]

I hope "Bishop" Spong recanted his heresies before he passed away.

[@adesignforlivinginterventi561]

A great man of courage and humility. Thank you for sharing with folks like me that was never able to embrace so many forms and dogmatic beliefs in Christianity. You are a gift to so many…including me! Rest in peace☮️

[@danmiller6462]

I am forever grateful to Bishop Spong and his work. I am an agnostic atheist but if there is a god I think that Bishop Spong described god in the best way I can think of. I’m also impressed with how he left his mantra open to change.

[@alfredo7843]

I am sad of the fact that I discovered Mr Spong after he had passed. Fortunately there is a wealth of resources left behind and I am thankful to this church for Mr Spong's lectures that they've preserved. God Bless.

[@tripzville7569]

THE TRUTH CAN NEVER DIE. Blessings from New Zealand.

[@justinernest6881]

Didn't he have a phd?

[@janekreger5749]

He was the Rector at my church when I was a teenager. He was a major support to me and to my family. I will always be grateful for the love and support of my family and basically the world. He was so filled with love of everyone

[@ChrisMusante]

The 'leaders of these times' are no different than those who were they who wrongfully killed Jesus. I am sad to find that I barely missed the coat tails upon which I might have grasped and begged for him to hold open the door that I pray to appear that I can reveal the lost information that has been entrusted to me, and for a world to hear. I imagine him as being very approachable, honest, and sincere.

[@ChrisMusante]

The man was fulfilling prophecy, prophecy being not something that we are supposed to 'wait on' with our talents buried in the dirt as we wait for the King to return. Revelation is clear, these are the things that must SOON TAKE PLACE, and thus the 'heeding' and 'speaking aloud' part imply that we are to 'live' the book of Revelation NOT wait for the end of the world. The Essenes sought to fulfill prophecy - as Jesus Himself did. Here's a verse for you to try out. Revelation 22:11... "Let the one who does wrong continue to do wrong; let the vile person continue to be vile; let the one who does right continue to do right; and let the holy person continue to be holy.” God's law is a BLESSING and a CURSE and does NOT need 'devils' to enforce it for Him... because they think that time is short.

[@ljubalicious]

RIP to a great one. I love that he could speak to and hold space for literally anyone on the spectrum of faith and atheism.

[@tripzville7569]

Agreed.

[@eduatjohnny8847]

Farewell to you, DrJohn Shelby Spong. Thank you for the enlightenment, you ŕeally open my heart & mind to good understanding the Bible, by not taking it literatelý. I am a 70yrs oĺd lady, gratefull I ran iñto your teachings at about the time I was thinking of quitiñg the church bcos the teachings were no more making sense to me. Thank you

[@tripzville7569]

Very brave and beautiful human .He lived this quote 'Let your ambition be the achievement on earth of a heavenly civilisation' [Bahai writings]

[@granvillerussell810]

I have 19 of your books and I learned more about Christianity and the bible from your teachings than all others combined. Farewell and may others read your writings.

[@olawi100]

Thank you John Shelby Spong....Your teachings were a tool for my liberation to be as you put it "fully human" Thank you....Rest in the light and the peace that you shared with humanity 🙏🏽

[@bigd2208]

God bless you Jack your teachings have always made sense to me.You have left us an amazing legacy to think and ponder over.

[@evesantiagomarrero5946]

God do not bless sinners read the bible being gay is a abobination to the Lord

[@andresdefideebookscriticos3333]

That lecture I will keep deep in my heart. This old guy will ever be my inspiration for everything I'm doing in portuguese to educate people about the Bible and how to read it properly. THANK YOU VERY MUCH, MASTER! How I hope death are not the end for that I may meet you someday and somehow hug you with all my love and respect.

[@francesrobinson615]

This man and his soul and his words made me fall in love with God.

[@SoldierOfGod778]

Yet he denied God. Heretic he is and was

[@kaylacarpenter272]

@@SoldierOfGod778 He didn't deny God. He denied the teachings of the church.

[@Woozler554]

@@kaylacarpenter272 That's bad enough.

[@tripzville7569]

Bless you

[@moshekallam1070]

@@Woozler554 No. Denying forgeries done in the name of God, in order to re-establish a genuine relationship with God, is not bad. Unless your god is the Church.

[@rxanana]

Thank you for waking people up from delusional to embracing fullness of the Real G_d … to live fully, to love wastefully, and to be all that you can be

[@yenbui1495]

Thank you so much for all the wise words that I have been seeking all my life. ❤️❤️❤️❤️

[@FrancesRobinson-yn2ks]

I didn't discover him until after he was gone. I wish I could tell him how much I admire him and how grateful I am for him. He's confirmed things that I've been thinking all of my life. I can't stop reading his books. //// I feel for his wife. I hope she is doing well.

[@peacelovejoy8786]

I have no doubt he can feel your prayers thanking him. We know the truth when we hear it. John taught the truth and people like you will continue to awaken to the truth 🙏🤍 Blessings In Oregon

[@AngryBilleh]

As an atheist I wanna thank John Shelby Spong for everything he's done, thank you John.

[@michaelkingsbury4305]

As a skeptical Episcopalian I thank you for your consideration.

[@ChrisMusante]

Wow. What a wonderful statement to see - maybe that should be a 'wow' instead... I am not surprised. I hope you find only sweet wine in your cup. ❤

[@crushtheserpent]

It's fitting an atheist should thank this man as he's caused many people to lose their faith. I was one of them decades ago, before I returned to the light.

[@ChrisMusante]

​@@crushtheserpent - nobody can cause you to lose your faith but you. On points where I did not understand something, or what they person said was clearly not aligned with 'God' and I mean the nitty gritty details - ALL of them have to be considered - then I would maybe ponder it as a way to see from the 'other side' as Jesus so conveniently put it. Much of scripture is taken out of context - because people cannot see that God actually represents BOTH perspectives (wise/ignorant) in ALL cases... Isaiah 1 is so very clear on this - but you have to be specifically trained to 'see it' - once you do... you will have a melt down and wonder what this is that we have done. Psalm 1 is another good example. Verse 1 Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly (take advice of), nor standeth in the way of sinners (be a stumbling block to their path of 'learning'), nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful (acting as a 'judge' over them - correct an 'accuser'). Verse 2 But his delight (fully trusting God's soverienty and control) is in the law of the Lord (an unbreakable law as it delivers both blessings AND curses); and in his law doth he meditate day (recognizing there are those who know and walk in the 'light') and night (recognizing that God will hand the times when 'nobody works', stumbing in darkness will 'teach' as well). Verse 3 (rewards of knowing God) Verse 4 "The ungodly are not so: but are like the chaff which the wind driveth away." This verse is the double edge sword clearly shown. The ungodly includes those who are wise in their own eyes, some of whom Jesus will say, AWAY FROM ME I didn't 'know' you. There is a reason why the word 'know' is used. It refers to the 'sex' that happens... the 'sex' being the following or 'knowing' of God's word... and practicing it in earnest. The 'wind' that driveth away - are the 'lies' that are spoken via poor interpretation of the intention of God's words - and because they are NOT sought to be understood and practiced in and thru love for one another - even if we are messed up, and sometimes badly so. Refer to Rev. 22:11 again. Verse 5 "Therefore the ungodly shall not stand in the judgment, nor sinners in the congregation of the righteous." Here you go... separation of sheeps and goats. Goats are judged by their own actions, looking for cracks in the law to hide in, and sheep being the righteous. The lake of fire? You are standing in it right now... it is where the ungodly are 'refined' by God's law, the sword that will devour those who try to fight it... it is the 'beast' in Revelation. Marks your head (thoughts) and effects or 'marks' one's RIGHT HAND... what one does. That what one does is 'physical' - buying and selling are 'wages'. Verse 6 "For the Lord knoweth the way of the righteous: but the way of the ungodly shall perish." There is that 'knoweth' again... which is to say that God guides us via his word/law. All else will be destroyed.

[@crushtheserpent]

@@ChrisMusante I agree with your statement "nobody can cause you to lose your faith but you." I could have been more careful with my wording. Perhaps I should have said he has "influenced many in the process of losing their faith". Thanks 🙏

[@jjschereriv]

Bless your huge heart, Jack. . . Go well. . . Love from Warsaw, Poland, to where and whenever you are right now from a grateful student and fellow follower on The path.

[@tripzville7569]

He lived this quote 'Let your ambition be the achievement on earth of a heavenly civilisation' [Bahai writings]

[@JoeRailfan]

The sum of Bishop Spong's career and message is but an elaboration on the words of Jesus himself (per John's gospel): "...I came that they may have life, and have it abundantly." Vaya con Dios, Bishop Jack. May the experience of Heaven prove to be in sharing God's eternity.

[@magalydeleon557]

“ that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.” Romans 10:9

[@nwcoastlife]

Oh John, I didn’t discover you until you were nearly at your end. I so badly wanted to see you at Chautauqua in that beautiful hall. Rest in peace. I may visit there someday anyway just to be there.

[@cherylann8292]

Fly eternal. May God Bless You and keep You. Thank you for Everything you Are 🙏🤍🙏

[@brandtl1486]

Where has this gentle man been all my life?

[@michaelkingsbury4305]

Which one? Jack or Gene? I am proud of you have met me Gene a number times outside the public.

[@ChrisMusante]

If only you knew how I feel... as I find yet another great man, whom would understand what God has shown me - and placed upon my heart the burdens of burdens - and only to find another dead end as resources go. I am Christopher Musante - and I am on a mission from God.

[@ChrisMusante]

@@brianschmidt9919 - no, I think that He was quieting a crowd that was suffering enough and did not (and has not) responded well to the lessons that they are learning by not following scripture. Do those 'trees' produce any 'fruit' (children)? Will they not whither in God's time? He (Spong) knew that people should love each other and not worry about something as stupid as making a cake. Jesus first miracle was to make wine for a bunch of 'already had too much to drink' folks at a wedding. I would point out that Job 'avoided' evil, and accepted it and as such did not involve himself with it. Jesus put it plainly - let the dead bury the dead, and as the Jews know - to 'touch something that is dead' will cause a person to be defiled, and you can do just that with a pointing finger, or even with harsh words. Gamaliel put it simply - "if it is of man, it will fail, but if it is of God - there is nothing that you will be able to do to stop it." Those who claim to be righteous enough to take the role of 'judge' - will be 'judged'. And if I look at the news today... I can see that the 'trees' that were beaten have no fruit, but those damn locusts sure are flying around causing a boat load of trouble aren't they? Stick to you own side of the fence and "so far as it concerns you, live at peace with all men." Because if you make it your business, you had better hope that God is behind you, else the 'thief' will show up - and take everything our of your house... that that is EXACTLY what is going on these days. Congrats.

[@billydebianchi]

Love this man. Really helped me get to where I am and helped me redefine my ongoing beliefs about God and even my relationship with God. Such an incredible man. Well done good and faithful servant.

[@mzdejavu3419]

I just recently discover Bishop Spong 2 days ago and he helped me see things in a different light. It brought my thoughts that I’ve had for years alive. I just could not find the words but I found them by listening to him. My relationship with God has changed as well. God bless!!

[@ChrisMusante]

@@mzdejavu3419 - I discovered him a couple of days ago as well - and was very excited that he seemed to teach quite a bit at the Chatauqua Institute that is a few miles from where I live. When Covid was about to hit - I knew what it would do BEFORE it got really bad... I couldn't understand why people were herding into buildings, instead of out of love and respect for each other, doing something as common sense as a 'passover', and encouraging the world to do likewise - it can't spread if it can't move - simple 'yeast theory'. Since then, I have been excommunicated from my church as I have tried to show my pastor and other Christian 'friends' - what I have found due to my private studies of scripture. I was really hoping to be able to speak to him because I know that he would understand the importance of what I have; a resolution to the 'gap' in Genesis 1:1 and Genesis 1:2 (Gap Theory), as well as a scripturally backed 'Theodicy' that not only fulfills the requirements of the definition, BUT even goes beyond that to explain accurately God's purpose for 'evil'. This is something that was sought - but never attained by - greats such as Aquinas, Augustin, Calvin, Luther, Edwards, Sproul, etc. I know what I know... but cannot find a door to drop this 'information' into someone elses lap... someone that people will actually 'listen to'. I keep chasing 'ghosts' because as soon as I find someoene that would have the right 'heart' to understand... I find that they are already called home. If you know of anybody... let me know - or heck... give 'em my phone number. 716-229-1343. Shalom.

[@paulinebeades3655]

The epitome of courage, compassion and hope.

[@saramatthews1208]

Thank you, Bishop jack, for the years of spiritual shake-up and thought-bait. Thank you very much.

[@sandicelusniak1640]

JOHN SHELBY SPONG, YOU are SURROUNDED by LOVE. ❤️

[@tripzville7569]

He lived this quote 'Let your ambition be the achievement on earth of a heavenly civilisation' [Bahai writings]

[@marlenetalbott-green6815]

Rest in Peace, Dear Bishop, and Rise in Glory!

[@rosch99]

If I could grasp even an iota of what Mr. Spong had to say, I'd still be a Christian. Sadly, that identity has passed for me. What great wisdom he has always embodied. I'm sad at his passing. He had so much wisdom to offer!

[@markcyphus3292]

Why can’t the questioners just ask a question? Why do they have to deliver a mini lecture? A question is a sentence with a question mark.. The listeners want to hear the answer of the lecturer

[@davidlloyd3192]

I was wondering similar...but some of them do present the debate/argument needed within the question, and is why I support his answers even more so...but you're not alone in that thought

[@marcusee1234nation]

RIP Bishop. May Peace be yourJourney

[@hjahansouz]

Rest In Peace, sir!

[@lydiamathes7245]

I started knitting when I was five. I left my needles behind when I moved into assisted living two months ago. I already miss them.

[@DavidMacKayE]

I hope they have provided you with replacements.

[@roxydina7615]

What an amazing man!

[@Woozler554]

It would seem so, right? But Spong was misguided.

[@tripzville7569]

Agreed.

[@stevenichols8887]

Words that are true, good, and beautiful.

[@peterchisale9695]

RIP humble teacher

[@loismayette2747]

I am so grateful for Spong..he led me.

[@michaelkingsbury4305]

Me too.

[@wolfwoodgrey224]

Goodbye Mr Sponge, I Wish you all the best, Thank You.

[@davidstankiewicz2049]

Did he know that he was dying during this speech? What a remarkable man!

[@joelmaqueira4851]

I MISS THIS MAN! R.I.P.

[@maggieadams8600]

Amazing Grace was written by a former slave trader, which does explain the words "wretch like me." Although I can see his point. I felt the same way about Trump, but as he says, it comes in cycles of, you thought that was bad, and on to worse still, time and again politically. The rotation needs to move up a notch to "Earth and all that lives on it first", as opposed to "America first." That's causing a whirl wind of negativity worldwide. It'll pass, eventually, thankfully!

[@patrickc3419]

He’s worshiping & praising the God who’s existence he suppressed now for sure, but rather than in joy, on his face begging & screaming for mercy.

[@michaelkingsbury4305]

Your God is Too Small. Jack's wasn't.

[@patrickc3419]

@@michaelkingsbury4305 Sir, this man was a heretic, a charlatan, and a fool who suppressed the truth in unrighteousness (per Romans 1). He was not a Christian by any stretch of the imagination. Salvation comes by the grace of God alone by faith alone in Christ alone. This fellow essentially died calling God a liar, where in fact 2 Timothy says that EVERY word of scripture is “God breathed, and useful for teaching, rebuke, correcting and training”.

[@Fatima44460]

@@patrickc3419 Amen. Jack was definetely a heretic. But, i have just one problem. You and i dont know who is saved and who is not. Who knows, Jack couldve repented before his death, who knows.

[@roythomasful]

2000 years after Matthew wrote what Jesus said in Matthew 28:18-20 , how could the bishop be telling us that Matthew has put these words into Jesus' mouth? Who is speaking the truth? The book of Matthew or the bishop? Men like this man discredit themselves, discredit God, discredit Christ and will be in for a surprise on the day of judgment. All flesh is as grass and all the glory of man Is like the flower of grass. The grass withereth and the flower thereof falleth away; but the word of the Lord endureth forever. I encourage all the readers to imbibe the faithful and eternal word of God instead of the abominable ideas that will lead one into the hell that Jesus spoke about! I trust Jesus Christ who died for me and rose again from the dead rather than foolish ideas that take men into perdition!

[@AngryBilleh]

If there is a hell I rather burn alongside Spong if he is wrong, I've already accepted my fate.

[@yeshuman668]

Nicely brain washed by Church

[@stephenargent4010]

Since we have no idea who wrote the gospel called Matthew, your whole argument is flawed

[@peacelovejoy8786]

​@@stephenargent4010 Oh how right you are!

[@rolandjosef7961]

Spong’s gospel is a false gospel. As a Bible believing Christian I watched lots of Bishop Spong's teachings and debate. And this one I watched from beginning to end. This is an eye opener for me though I am not suprised any at all that there are many people who believes and admires Bishop Spong. His ministry is mainly focussed on deconstructing what we all know about Traditional Christianity.

[@marlenetalbott-green6815]

Roland Josef: You so completely missed the point of Bishop Spong's teachings. I'm sorry that has happened to you.

[@rolandjosef7961]

@@marlenetalbott-green6815 pls tell me how you understand his teachings all about. Im open minded. My religion is the pursuit of the Truth not Christianity. How does Mr Spong increase your faith in God?

[@henrieecen2938]

Roy and Marlene please cease the dualism it only invokes debate. Please forget religion and follow by living loving and being IN God, as Jesus the Christ.

[@marlenetalbott-green6815]

@@henrieecen2938 I don't know the Roy to whom you are addressing your remarks, but as for myself, please don't lecture me. I understand that it is not possible to share my religious thinking with you, and Bishop Spong needs no defense. If you don't like what he has to say, then that's all you need to say in your pursuit of the "truth."

[@henrieecen2938]

@@marlenetalbott-green6815 very much agree with Spong but my point was debating gets us nowhere with fundamentalists. Leave it to God and time, for those with a pure heart and genuinely seeking, revelation and understanding evolves. Greetings in Christ to you 😉

[@PilgrimNinja]

Sad, when a heretic passes, forever lost.

[@FacePaster]

Jesus was treated like a heretic, too. Accusations of heresy are really petty, childish, and nasty.

[@solearesoul]

You are not the judge and neither is the church. God is the judge. And this man made God accessible to many who might have otherwise rejected him because they were turned off by tribalist dogma.

[@peacelovejoy8786]

​@@solearesoul Very true. Thank you for these wise words . God doesn't judge we all have free.

[@nagyioan9122]

do not like god at all but defo mr spong was a great man.

[@enzodevincentis4156]

Funny, Jesus quoted the old testament literally, if you do not believe me, read the Gospels!

[@michaelkingsbury4305]

And violated the Law numerous times...

[@FacePaster]

Kind of the opposite, really. Jesus picked and chose which parts of the Bible he observed and said stuff like "the Bible tells you ____, but I'm telling you _____" Jesus used the Bible to support his version of faith, and embarrassed self-righteous fundamentalists who thought they knew the Bible better than he did but really just used the scriptures they wanted to as an excuse to act like assholes

[@enzodevincentis9938]

@@michaelkingsbury4305 He fulfilled the law and told others not to break the law and use the law in hypocrisy, the law was abolished when He was crucified on the cross. Mat 5:17 "Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I didn't come to destroy them, but to fulfill them, Mat 5:18 because I tell you with certainty that until heaven and earth disappear, not one letter or one stroke of a letter will disappear from the Law until everything has been accomplished. Mat 5:19 So whoever sets aside one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom from heaven. But whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom from heaven Mat 5:20 because I tell you, unless your righteousness greatly exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom from heaven!"

[@enzodevincentis9938]

@@FacePaster Mat 5:17 He fulfilled the law and told others not to break the law and use the law in hypocrisy, the law was abolished when He was crucified on the cross Matt 5:17 Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I didn't come to destroy them, but to fulfill them, Mat 5:18 because I tell you with certainty that until heaven and earth disappear, not one letter or one stroke of a letter will disappear from the Law until everything has been accomplished. Mat 5:19 So whoever sets aside one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom from heaven. But whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom from heaven Mat 5:20 because I tell you, unless your righteousness greatly exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom from heaven!"

[@FacePaster]

@@enzodevincentis9938 Wow! A complete contradiction of Pauls Gospel! I hope you are keeping every letter and stroke of the Torah!

[@evesantiagomarrero5946]

Deje de blafemar contra el Altisimo y Jesucristo diciendo que escogio a un gay para predicar el apostol pablo no era homosesual era hombre que predico su palabra usted peca diciendo eso enganñando a la gente la homosesualidad es un pecado lea la biblia y no vuelva a mencionar el nombre Santo del Señor

[@evesantiagomarrero5946]

Who evet is gay repent is a si read the bible

[@clarktaylor8729]

Who else teaches the way he did?

[@Woozler554]

Just about anyone who promotes a false gospel.

[@clarktaylor8729]

@@Woozler554 such as?

[@Woozler554]

@@clarktaylor8729 - As I said, anyone who preaches something that's obviously contrary to scripture - daring to publish books with titles like "The Sin of Scripture". What an outrage. Spong made it clear many times over that he was hostile to the word of God, and he would consistently bend, twist, distort, or simply ignore it to suit his personal idea of morality. That's a false gospel, my friend.

[@clarktaylor8729]

@@Woozler554 anyone specific?

[@Woozler554]

@@clarktaylor8729 - No one I can name. I'm not a follower of such people. Why? What is your point? Do you think that somehow absolves Spong?

[@roselotusmystic]

🙏 💃🕺☯꩜ DanceOn . . .

[@roselotusmystic]

DoBeDoBeDo . . . 🙏

[@Faltor895]

This man deceived you all.

[@ChrisMusante]

Question to you sir. Is it not said that one will reap what they sow? And if that is the case - and of course that ones sins will surely be found out - is it necessary for anybody but God to 'find out' those sins? If you judge another, you have then shown the 'left hand' what the 'right hand' is doing and thus have judged yourself. You would read the Book of Revelation as a 'monster story' and something to 'wait upon' - where in reality it is a description of a day to day moment by moment road map to what we are supposed to 'do' in order to be blessed. Something good to look at is to maybe read the very last verses of that book, and I would point to Revelation 22:11 and leave you with a bit of insight as to why the church has fallen apart over these past couple of years - which started with the idea that we should have done a 'passover' in order to defeat Covid, simple, no jabs, 40 days later, we all come out of our homes and since the disease would NOT have been able to spread... done. No jabs, no problems... simple 'math' or 'yeast theory' if you want to call it that. Whatever is 'oppressed'... 'grows'. Even people and more over worse so, because people have hearts and feelings and will then rise up to defend themselves. The best option is to do as Gamaliel said, "I say do nothing, because if it is of man it will fail - but if it is of God - there will be nothing that we can do to stop it." The error is in thinking that God 'creates'... 'good'. God does not create 'good' - He creates 'darkness' and 'evil'... as per Isaiah 45:7. This is what He STARTS with... destruction. This is how the 'end is determined from the beginning' and also why the last days will be all of the earth's LAST DAYS. Because God created man and 'man' will be what God will use to destroy His creation, that He would remain - 'Good'; and if there is any part that God will have in it, it will be to provide a law that defines all that we need to know, and as many saints prior to ourselves that have tried to teach us what it means, Jesus being the most important of which, reducing all things to something simple. Love each other. Pray for each other. And if they seem to be enemies, feed and even clothe each other. Revelation 22:11 reads... "He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still." The 'leaves of the trees' were for the healing of the nations... it should be noted that they (Adam and Eve) covered their previously unshamed nakedness with leaves. Perhaps we should put the leaves over our eyes, instead of finding fault and stirring up the waters in ways that we will certainly later regret.

[@Faltor895]

@@ChrisMusante The Bible also says to be aware of false teachers that say what people's itching ears want to hear. I am not judging Spong, just his teachings.

[@ChrisMusante]

@@Faltor895 - I have caught I few things that I struggle with, but nothing I feel that challenges my faith in any way.

[@catbreath8361]

Abandon the Creeds. How dare you.

[@francesrobinson615]

Yeah, he sure dared. God love him!! Thank God that Bishop Spong was so enlightened, intelligent, courageous -- and loving.

[@davidlloyd3192]

Mark 12:17 comes to mind for my reply to your comment here Cat..."“Well, then,” Jesus said, “give to Caesar what belongs to Caesar, and give to God what belongs to God.”"

[@michaelkingsbury4305]

I didn't like the Creeds until I read William Barclay's the Apostles Creed for Everyman. Jack preached against literal in interpretation.

[@FacePaster]

Why so upset? It's not like those creeds are in the Bible anyway. Paul abandoned the Law. How dare he. Dare sometime. You might learn something.

[@ChrisMusante]

​@@FacePaster - you are incorrect. Paul did NOT abandon the law. When he said that he wanted to do he did not do, he was attributing ANYTHING that was 'good' that he did, as being used as a living sacrifice and conduit for God's works. With regards to the Sabbath - which I'm sure that you follow right? - when he said that some esteem everyday the same, the scripture was to mean that EVERY DAY is to be HOLY unto the LORD. On the Sabbath, (2) candles are burned - those candles represent the (2) pillars of God's guidance... good and evil. This is why on the 7th day He rested from all that me MADE and CREATED. Making and creating are (2) different things to God, as we can see in Isaiah 45:7 (KJV)... "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things." Evil, in God's eyes and as per Jesus also, is something that is not yet called into the light, but this is where God starts - He creates EVIL and then 'forms' and 'makes' it - effectively separating the 'light' FROM the 'darkness'. God does not see light and dark the way 'man' does. (Psalms 139:12)... and besides all of that, JOB accepted both 'good' and 'evil' from God. He didn't pick up a club to attack evil, he 'avoided it', and thus met the conditions of the law which say to NOT repay evil with evil. Because (if you know your bible numbers, and how they apply to the construct of the scriptures) you should notice that even Cain, would be avenged 7x - that number 7 is important, because it indicates 'completion' and if you 'sow evil' - you will 'reap evil'. God does NOT author evil - that is man's doing. This is why God sends evil spirits upon those who need to see correction for their ways, like He did to King Saul, and King Ahab, and Pharoah. BUT, as in the Parable of the Talents, you should notice that God still 'reaps where He has no sown'... which is to say that God's law, as cause and effect (blessings and curses) is therefore NOT breakable, you serve if from one side of the sword or the other. In fact, the 'suffering servant' is a 'sinner'... Numbered amongst the transgressors, nobody that we should esteem him, sticken and smitten by God (faithful wounds and healing by 'stripes'). Nobody is outside the law... as all actions are bound to it - as the Apostle Paul stated in Romans 2:12-16, which reads... 12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law; 13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified. 14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: 15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;) 16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel. Jesus Christ is the WORD... He is the LAW of GOD made into a human being, and forgive plenty of people before they wrongfully murdered Him, (1 Corinthians 2:8) and I say so because in Jesus law, the spilling of man's blood, and human sacrifice is expressly forbidden.

[@Woozler554]

To whom this may concern: Thirty years ago, I was received into the Episcopal Church by Bishop Spong. At the time, I was very impressed by him. I spoke with him several times, heard several of his sermons, attended some of his seminars, read 4 or 5 of his books, and attended numerous adult education sessions based on his writings. At the time, I thought he was brilliant, and that he had all the answers. But that was 30 years ago. A lot has happened since that time, and I learned a lot over the years. I have now greatly changed my viewpoint about Spong. I no longer think he was correct. On the contrary, I now believe he was greatly misguided. I say this because I have seen first-hand the ramifications of his false doctrine. He was gravely mistaken in numerous ways, and I was wrong in following him. I thank God that He showed me the correct way. When I think of Spong these days, two Biblical passages in particular come to mind: Isaiah 5:20 "Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!" Mark 8:38 "Whosoever therefore shall be ashamed of me and of my words in this adulterous and sinful generation; of him also shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he cometh in the glory of his Father with the holy angels." It was a long road, but I finally found the correct path. I advise all other Christians who care deeply about their faith to take heed to what I am saying.

[@yeshuman668]

keep ur beliefs to urself

[@Woozler554]

@@yeshuman668 #1 Why should I do that? #2 Who are you to tell me what to do? #3 Learn how to spell.