☂️ Why I REMOVED Umbrel From My Bitcoin Lightning Node

[@edwarddiaz6806]

The thing that makes me nervous about switching from Umbrel is that Citadel is all dependent on one dude when he has free time between high school life, especially if I'm plunking money down on something.

[@fredvStein]

I see Umbrel just updated to 0.5, which has a new look. Core Umbrel is just an OS, and app updates happen separately outside of Umbrel updates. Bitcoin is no longer required or installed by default, you can turn off TOR if you so wish (if you don't have crypto stuff), and it the UI has dark mode and backgrounds. Regarding watchtower vs listening node - it means the node listens for requests to share a copy of the blockchain and shares a copy of the ledger to the requesting nodes: good for bitcoin, but concerns over privacy.

[@Bitcoinftm]

You are correct on all counts. Aaron says he'll update the interface, too, but not in the same way. For me, Umbrel making Bitcoin optional was MORE of an indication that I don't want to be on Umbrel...

[@ijiikieru]

I tried Citadel a few months ago and immediately got "buyers" remorse so I went back to Umbrel. I had a problem with moving over so I had to start from scratch anyway and redownload the whole block chain. Also, and this isn't their fault, but I had funds on Jam on the old Umbrel save that I wrote over with the Citadel save. Those funds are lost forever because I was unaware it had a separate seed phrase from the node.

[@Bitcoinftm]

Dang, sounds like a nightmare... Sorry to hear that was your experience, but thanks for sharing as a cautionary tale

[@ksoonsoon]

After this and some of your other videos, I was also very excited to get to Citadel a try. However, even as of this date it looks like a not ready for prime time release. If you wouldn’t mind commenting on that and also the fact that it looks like Aaron already has built a citadel replacement/upgrade, I would appreciate it. From my perspective, which is much closer to a noob than an expert, although I don’t consider myself a noob, what we really need is a step-by-step installation video for Aaron‘s newest release. I know you have good communication with him. Is that something you can create and release? Thanks for your work I appreciate it. although I am also interested in migrating off of Umbriel, I think I’ll have to stay there until I can get something that looks a little bit more stable and more supported in regards to an installation set up video. Additional comments are sure welcome on this.

[@CarstenOtto]

12:40 Pickhardt Payments and MPPs are different things. MPPs are "just" payments split into several pieces, arriving all at the same time (or not at all). Pickhardt Payments is the process of splitting up a large payment (to optimize for reliability, fees, ...). You can send out MPPs by just splitting up a payment into 10 pieces and taking the 10 shortest routes - but that's not Pickhardt Payments.

[@Bitcoinftm]

Wow, super cool. Thanks for correcting me! I always learn from you Carsten :)

[@nicolasleconte6918]

@@Bitcoinftm So what is the one that is default in Citadel? Pickhardt Payment or MPP?

[@shtaufaker5211]

Already switched from Umbrel. Followed the guide on the site. Everything gone smooth.

[@josesammut9396]

Came across your channel in my research. Grateful for your work. Thanks,.

[@ZoTrAcK]

Thanks Jonathan! That look really interresting to do the switch! It may be problematic for thoses like me who did set up hybrid mode for their node to have a clearnet address... I fear I may have to reinstall/retweak some parts to have my hybrid mode run the same again...

[@Bitcoinftm]

I use a reverse proxy to access my BTCPay, everything transferred over smoothly actually!

[@KFChan]

I'm pretty concerned about not using bitcoin core. But I don't really know enough if or what would be the negative consequences of using knots. What if there were to have an update to bitcoin core like a new bip or such?

[@Bitcoinftm]

I’m pretty sure you can run core on citadel. Ask Aaron.

[@kringkingen]

I dig that intro tune, can find it tho. Interesting video!

[@roarkjanis]

I came across your channel tonight as I'm diving down the lightning node rabbit hole. I had not heard of Citadel before and googling it tonight, it seems like it is no longer available (or at least activate supported) and their channel is even inactive. What happened?

[@Timmay4Liife]

"as soon as he graduates high school"🤣 that kid must be a beast!

[@benharris008]

Please make a video on how to set up CITADEL

[@SatWise2013]

This didn't age well. Citadel is currently an unstable mess. No new users are allowed until they get to upgrade it. I deleted and am installing Umbrel again, which has appropriate support. And always adding the latest and greatest version of an app isn't always a good thing. Maybe Umbrel takes more time to test them

[@daviguananbaradearagao441]

Now, 2024, it is not working properly. I am running x86 version and most of apps do not works properly or is incompatible.

[@alexfinn7989]

Thank you for the video. I am setting up my first lightning node. What is Bitcoin knots? How is Citidel different than myNode?

[@Bitcoinftm]

Bitcoin Knots is a fork from Bitcoin Core, the main software to "run" Bitcoin on your computer as a program. Knots is just a different version with some changes to it. Citadel and MyNode are very similar, just made by different people with different compromises. I haven't used MyNode, maybe I'll try setting one up... but I don't have any extra Pi's. If you haven't bought hardware yet, you can support the channel by using jle.vi/nodehardware to purchase.

[@tonywright8342]

I have been looking to change my hard drive with Umbrel over to an SSD drive. I thought it would be easy to find info on how to do that. I haven’t found that. Everything seems to be done through the community. I’m going to give Citadel a go and change over.

[@andy-v]

Have you run into any problems while doing updates? I've had a Citadel node for a while, but due to consistently running into problems I've scrapped my node. I ended up getting locked out. It got stuck on doing something with it's docker containers. Thinking of starting over using Umbrel actually.. Was running it on an old NUC with an Intel Pentium N3700 processor.

[@theveka]

I'm also considering moving away from Citadel. I looks like the only developer Aaron (who is busting his ass on this project btw) can't put additional time into the project. Seems like every update as it comes out breaks more things than fixes. Can umbrel be installed alongside Citadel on laptop running on linux mint. Is there a way if I already downloaded whole blockchain through citadel to be used by umbrel. I just don't want to wait again 3 weeks to download whole blockchain again

[@-someone-.]

Umbrel has been super stable for me👍.

[@tonywright8342]

Looks like Citadel isn’t available now. Where to now?

[@BRCBeliever]

Ok, I finally started the trek. I reformatted my old pc to linux and download citadel after this video. BUT .. being new to linux, I installed citadel and the node on my primary SSD, which is only 250gig, instead of my second HDD, which is a full 1 TB. How do i move it to the other drive without having to set up all new seed phrases and all that stuff? Do you have a video on this or can you point me to one please?

[@Bitcoinftm]

I believe if you move the bitcoind folder it’ll work. But maybe just move over the entire drive? If not ask in citadel telegram group and Aaron will answer you

[@damv5975]

Why citadel and not Start9?

[@tonyb6751]

Jonathan, just found you today, watched a few videos, including this one, and subscribed. Your content is most helpful and I look-forward to watching more in the coming days... In this video you address those who might want to switch from Umbrel to Citadel. As someone who does not yet run a Bitcoin node, which is how I found your videos, do you have any thoughts on which of these, or other software, would be best or most appropriate for a newbie? I realize you are a fan of both, for the reasons explained, but for someone just starting, who has not yet even purchased the gear, curious what you might recommend... Others - I'd value your input too. Thanks.

[@Bitcoinftm]

Hey Tony, Thanks for the kind words! So happy my content is helping you. Personally, I run Citadel. The Umbrel V5 update has had a lot of problems, and it's clear to me they are focused on being a personal server company, not a Bitcoin company. I choose to support Bitcoin-only projects, and I think you should too. Plus, they're full FOSS, unlike Umbrel. So... my answer is Citadel. If you're going to pick up the equipment, check out my link kit.co/jlevi/run-a-bitcoin-node where I've aggregated all the products I suggest (affiliate links, which support the channel). I will have a video coming out soon where I walk you through all the parts and why I chose them, too. But, you can order from there now if you are impatient. What other videos would you like to see? Always looking for ideas.

[@tonyb6751]

@@Bitcoinftm Jonathan, thanks for thoughtful reply. I was hoping you’d say Citadel. With the reasoning you provided in this video, and me valuing the same, it made sense; but I recognize such a choice might not always be the best for someone new (thinking that Umbrel might be more user-friendly for beginners). I’ve been on your equipment page, but thanks for providing it. Glad to hear about that upcoming gear video! I’m now inclined to wait, but yes, I’m pretty excited about this project. From your equipment page, it seems the products are for two different build paths. I believe I have a list of what items are needed for each. So, in this video, it would be great to note the build options, then proceed to discussing each, the pros/cons or considerations/factors and equipment needed. Not sure if you’d want to actually build or assemble a node with that list of equipment, but that could be quite helpful for some. And if you remain a Citadel fan at that time (hope so), I think it would very helpful to then walk us through how to get that software into the box. Since you asked, that’s what I’d like to see! Thanks again Jonathan.

[@tabsats2515]

when it comes to stability I cant recommentd citadel. I used it for a year or so and it was buggy as hell. Aaron who develops citadel is very commited and tries his best but due to ressource issues he is unable to test his releases properly. With every new release something breaks. I went back to umbrel and it works like a charm. I will stay wil umbrel since all I need is stability, and for me it works fine.

[@madinventor6327]

Does Citadel have a page listing all the apps supported? I don't see anything on their website. Also, what's the point, if they are the same apps on both Umbrel and Citadel unless one of them disappears.

[@Bitcoinftm]

Here ya go, frenderino github.com/runcitadel/apps/tree/v3-dev/apps

[@dlrouen]

I am just getting into bitcoin and lightning. I am having trouble finding a node that runs on windows. Is there one? Would I be better off just building a raspberry pi or getting Linux on a pc I already have built for a node and then getting citadel or umbrella?

[@Bitcoinftm]

Built a raspberry Pi or use Linux, you can't run a node on Windows. You'll need to run Citadel or Umbrel on Linux or Raspbian. Here's a parts list: kit.co/jlevi/run-a-bitcoin-node

[@anakaoka]

haha, I chatted with Aaron offering to invest... he told me he was in school and didn't have time. :)

[@benfranklinskite5975]

There are way too many people having major problems with the Umbrel software!

[@Bitcoinftm]

Yeah... True.

[@derek.seaborn]

Just a grammatical note for your videos going forward: the word “pros” does not contain an apostrophe. If the word is plural, it does not contain an apostrophe. The only time to use an apostrophe is for “it is (it’s)” and when it’s possessive “Johnathan’s channel”, “KZbin’s terms of service”; on the other hand, “pros” is not possessive. You may think grammar doesn’t matter, but proper grammar shows attention to detail and even credibility, in my opinion - just trying to help.

[@Bitcoinftm]

Snap, good call, I'll tell my video editor, he's not a native speaker :)

[@derek.seaborn]

Thanks for the response. And thanks for the video! @@Bitcoinftm

[@vidgamer14]

nice video. I was thinking of switching but no link to zeus is deal breaker for me. But i would like to throw Mr. D some sats. Do you know where I can donate?

[@Bitcoinftm]

It has a link, for some reason it doesn't work on Umbrel or on Citadel right now though. You can donate using LNTXBOT on telegram: @AaronDewes

[@NoOnezZup]

thanks for the info

[@Bitcoinftm]

You bet!

[@arbadacarbaYK]

big fan 😍

[@mobileos]

What is the default ssh user and password for the citadel, because i see that is downloading all the chain data again and i need to delete the old one

[@benharris008]

citadel freedom

[@therecyclingguy256]

Come to Raspiblitz 🤝🏿💯

[@Bitcoinftm]

Doesn't Raspiblitz have like, no GUI though? I like pretty GUIs

[@Hamsterbtconly]

I’m probs leaving blitz to get a sweet gui.

[@walecious1]

Will it run on raspberry pi 3b?

[@Bitcoinftm]

I don't think so

[@Coinsauce]

I’ve been wondering for a while if we should change from Umbrel to Citdel this video defo sold it for me

[@Bitcoinftm]

Nice, let us know how it goes for you.

[@maurukaze]

Are you still using Citadel instead of Umbrel today?

[@axnoro]

What about start9's embassy?

[@Bitcoinftm]

haven't heard of it?

[@hosky7]

why not MyNode?

[@Bitcoinftm]

I'm familiar with Umbrel and Citadel is closer. DOes MyNode have a GUI?

[@rkadowns]

I find mynode amazing

[@Bitcoinftm]

Cool, haven't tried it myself.

[@morpheus4564]

project dead ? just want check it out

[@mawortz]

I'm running mynode and was thinking of switching to Umbrel but now I might switch to Citadel :D

[@Bitcoinftm]

Try it out! I’ve been happy especially with all the issues people have on Umbrel 0.5+

[@StanislavKozlovsk]

Can somebody talk about why not just run your own Ubuntu?

[@Bitcoinftm]

Hmm, mainly b/c people odn't know how to set it all up and install apps on it

[@k0gen]

Thanks for the information. Good to see the new kid on the block. This is actually the first time I've heard of the Citadel. I am using EmbassyOS by Start9.

[@Bitcoinftm]

I've heard about Embassy a lot, but haven't seen any screenshots or walkthroughs... I'm curious, but not curious enough to switch over.

[@k0gen]

​@@Bitcoinftm You can see some screenshots on github.com/Start9Labs/embassy-os but to get some feel of the interface I recommend watching kzbin.info/www/bejne/a5eldZlpiL5-o80 or any other tutorial videos from their YT channel.