What makes a good game idea?

[@vycdev]

I think streamability isn't mentioned enough because it's something that can make your game explode overnight. Great video!

[@nyomanbandarayani6830]

@@vycdev GorkaGames said the same thing. The reason why his channel exploded because he made games about ishowspeed and kaicenat

[@TESkyrimizer]

the hook for hades was "godlike roguelike" but that actually doesnt convey anything mechanically in the end they delivered very high quality in a saturated genre to stand out but most of us are incapable of delivery that kind of quality given our limited experience, budget, and time

[@mercai]

So many of the AA+ or triple-indie games don't really have any valid hook. They just overcome it with production values (pretty art), polish (aka development experience + time to implement) + marketing budgets. Hades is definitely one of those. And being 4th game of an iconic indie studio, they could make anything, and it would still gather interest.

[@mandisaw]

​@mercai There's always a hook, you may just have to think about it. Hades tapped a popular setting (Greek mythology) that wasn't used much in that genre, and crossed it with a punk artstyle and sardonic wit that ppl don't normally associate with classical mythology. The mechanics were secondary - they have an established track record, so existing fans knew to trust them on that front. Newcomers got hooked from that first anime trailer.

[@IndieGameClinic]

@@mercaiand when AAA games do have a good hook they often get sabotaged by publishers - look at Far Cry Primal. Should’ve been a stand out game in the series; a AAA prehistoric game is a cool idea! but was super small and linear.

[@foseydontanri7859]

@@mercai "pretty art" is a valid hook.

[@ultimaxkom8728]

Hooks are nebulous, relative, and not limited to setting nor mechanics. Here's ""unintuitive"" ones: Apparent quality. (Part & overall) Absurdity. Community. (Current & potential) Good arts. Relation. (Devlog, 'Y by X', ...) Interesting styles. Crisp fidelity. (Diminishing) On trend. Dimension. (2.5D, 4D, 5D, ...) High niche. Popularity. (Current & inertial) Humor. Representative. (Game engine, ...) ...

[@ImpalerVR]

I don't think you need to compromise your vision to sell well or even at all. I can't say I released a good game to prove it, but I have a short tangent story where I had more success. I made a KZbin channel a few years ago when I had more free time. At first, no one watched. I was making playthroughs of VR games because I wanted my channel to be about VR. I learnt how to edit and I'm quite proud of what I did, though it had way too many cuts. I was worried about how much buying different games would cost for no return. Eventually, I realized I was only doing what I thought would be sensible as a KZbinr and didn't want to do anything too big with my then low skill set because I would blow my chances. Then I realized, why am I holding back, what's the point of playing safe until I can do what I really want. I knew the genre, but I asked myself "if I can make only one video and nothing more, what would it be? What would I regret not doing?" So I tried making a commentary style video about my favorite VR game Boneworks and my honest thoughts that no one in my daily life would get. I put the editing knowledge I learnt to good use and had constant video feedback on what I was saying, with cuts every few seconds to prove my points. It broke 1000 views. I made a follow up video on my negative thoughts of that game's sequel and I got 20k views. Of course, the next videos didn't get as many views again, but still all over 1k views. I got less time to make them and was really burnt out after making them, but my point is that bending to other people's will won't make a good product. All of us have something, some perspective, something to say, some different experience. If you aren't authentic, then it shows and people hate that. When you do what YOU want, but make it satisfying for people to consume, that's when you create something great. Maybe getting a few thousand views isn't enough to prove it, but that's what my experience tells me and I will continue this way.

[@ultimaxkom8728]

_"bending to other people's will won't make a good product."_ (just for this quote) Sounds good & positive, but not true. Any product that people want how they want it is a good product. Doesn't sounds as good but it's the truth. If nobody wants it but the creator then it fails as a product. If it's not how they want it then it's not a good product. If it's both then is that even a product? Well, it's an art, at least. But we're not talking about arts. So yes, bending your big pride to people's will can make good products for the people. Just not necessarily good art.

[@mrxcs]

"What makes a good game idea?" One that is viable (skill and money wise you have), fun and marketable. That is why a good idea it's not easy.

[@TESkyrimizer]

an ideas guy, a REAL ideas guy, is worth their weight in gold

[@mandisaw]

​@@TESkyrimizerNah, this isn't really being the "idea guy", it's applying standard product design principles. There are tons of books written on this stuff from the 50s onward - even learned some of it in IT business mgmt courses. Companies have a pretty rigorous process to vet ideas before committing serious resources to them. Most indies just don't learn or apply them 🤷‍♀️

[@ultimaxkom8728]

If you think about it, us game designers professional or not is, at its core, an idea guy. It just that we trim down the 'wrinkles' after.

[@IndieGameClinic]

“Your setting is not a hook” is great advice. I think flipping the setting can work IF you’re bringing back something old which is currently missing from the current gen - like Advance Wars and Wargroove (it’s basically the same game but fantasy instead of modern war, but it worked because noone had done it for a while).

[@IcarusMK22]

Yes that's true. A new setting can work in a genre that's not so saturated.

[@ultimaxkom8728]

*Technical note:* The key is _"not enough to current demand."_ Not its age nor current gen. It'll still spoil _even if it's missing & as old to be a classic._

[@flame1309]

I have a game about a Frog who has work to pay child support.

[@_sleepyFox-oh6ob]

😂 I'd play it just off that one sentence

[@mandisaw]

Honestly assessing your strengths & weaknesses is something even giant corporations struggle with. You guys learned the lesson and didn't even lose your first $100M yet 😂

[@ultimaxkom8728]

I'd love to have the capacity to lose my $100M. Just not the imaginary ones. :)

[@vladioanalexandru4222]

I'd like to make a game like Into the Radius VR, but set in Finland instead. The thing that people loved was the backpack inventory and gun maintance, so you can make static gun emplacements, light fortifications and a horse with saddles to carry your heavy supplies. That way you can manage resources AND change the map to your advantage. I think it can work.

[@Pariatech]

That's kind of odd of wanting to make a game just for yourself. There's great joy of having people play your game and especially enjoy it. This goes for any form of art.

[@mercai]

Other people might spend an hour, or in rare cases hundred hours in your game. As developer, you will likely spend 3-10 thousand(!) of hours making it. That's a dedication no discipline alone can muster. Which is why it's got to be something the creator should genuinely want to create, an intrinsic motivation, not just the external one.

[@mandisaw]

People have made art for themselves for all of history. Diaries, personal clothes, cooking, pottery, weaving, knitting, & quilting, painting, music, woodworking, etc - art always has value to the artist, even if it's never shared. Even in a commercial context, you'll find pieces that had no patron, not intended for sale or even self-promotion. Just exploration of an idea. Art for art's sake is cool too.

[@Drejzer]

And even with marketing the game, making something for yourself is a decent starting point to having an audience... I think, at least.

[@ultimaxkom8728]

Tsundere game devs. _"I-It's not like I made it for you or anything! I made it just for myself!" (...I hope people will play it and like it)_

[@mandisaw]

@@ultimaxkom8728 😆 Oh man, now I wanna see a "dere chart" for game-dev

[@morgan0]

i moved away from my last game idea because it was a niche and unique idea in an area of game design i had no experience in, and i found out that i was going to have to do a lot more learning to figure it out. my current project still requires a bunch of learning but its stuff that there’s resources for. i have some other ideas that i also think would be good games but that i moved away from for various reasons.

[@vimu1534]

Dont plan for the change of trend... Try to be the reason for the change of trend!

[@robertmills1759]

I am totally going to make a rogue like fishing simulator

[@gameboardgames]

That has a great Hook... ! Get it... hook. Like, fishing - you know what I'm saying.

[@freewebtime]

This hook is a logline in a storytelling

[@Nubian_King_RNM]

I think in marketing, they call this the marketing mix or the 4P's, which are very useful to consider when your aim is to sell games on steam.

[@mandisaw]

Yup! 4Ps of product design - product, price, place, and promotion. There are a ton of books, videos, talks, courses, etc explaining this stuff. A lot are free! In the US, the Small Business Association often has its own courses or counseling if you look. Some States and munis have resources to help you with product design questions too. Even if you find that an idea isn't feasible, maybe just put it away for better conditions, or find a way to do it more cheaply, to make the math work better.

[@Nubian_King_RNM]

​@mandisaw Thanks, I'll look into those courses you mentioned.

[@HarrisonVogl]

What are your thoughts on making a game that may be generic, but very well excectuted - graphics, polish, etc

[@ceottaki]

"RPG MMO fishing game where you also manage a train station". 🤣🤣 Marnix, I can't believe you haven't added trains as a main mechanic to one of BiteMe Games yet! Just do it, man! :)

[@new2you410]

I think having a strong hook and making your game stream-able is really great advice. But I disagree with the part about following trends. You should make a game you’re really passionate about and not try to be Fortnite 2. That’s been ending badly for a lot of triple A studios.

[@ultimaxkom8728]

*Side note:* Fortnite itself is _"Fortnite 2"_ of PUBG. They just did it the right *way* at the right *timing;* which is as always is the real key.

[@wintermute5974]

Following trends is always a gamble because you never know when they'll lose steam. I think it's useful to try and distinguish between 'I'm following this trend because I want a slice of the hype' vs 'I'm following this trend because it involves some sort of innovation that I think will actually benefit my game'.

[@len3rd376]

A 3d puzzle game where you play as doom guy.

[@channyh.221B]

Watching this video's of Biteme Games running into walls so I don't have to. 👌

[@guillermomontoya3382]

What is streamability really? If we think about it, every single game is streamable since there are tons of different kinds of streamers for different kinds of audiences.

[@foldupgames]

Wow, this is very solid and sobering.

[@lukasfletcher4732]

At 4:00 what game is that? I can't find it anywhere using the name written in the bottom left but seems interesting

[@bitemegames]

www.reddit.com/r/godot/comments/1hqh7ei/my_game_about_struggling_to_file_an_insurance/ -M

[@lukasfletcher4732]

Cool, appreciate it!

[@SteveDFM]

I'd like to say I'm making games I want to play myself, but the truth is I'm stuck in tutorial hell and keep changing my mind between 2d/3d and PC/Mobile. I'm still learning things, but every new thing I learn leads me to wanting to make a new game from the ones I've already considered. Just need to see one through to completion I think, whatever it is.

[@dinokknd]

It sounds like it might be smart to nail down the game idea first, and then redirect your tutorial hell towards developing that idea.

[@SteveDFM]

@@dinokknd That's solid advice, ty.

[@AverusMuto]

Should you make a game in a genre that's popular right now but that you hate with a passion?

[@mercai]

No.

[@nyomanbandarayani6830]

If you want to sell it then yes. If you wanna make a game for your portfolio to work in a game industries then Nope

[@mandisaw]

Not unless you have to. For one, if you hate that genre, it's hard to get a good understanding of what fans want. Worse, say your game does take off, now you're stuck making sequels & maintaining it for as long as the money is good.

[@gameboardgames]

Some people can. Most [game making] people at the very least though can do the latest and greatest genre thing but then put enough of their own interesting takes and twists on it to make it worthwhile. But ya, it's fair enough to do the latest and greatest genre but just take it to the next level in terms of complexity, an interesting mechanic addition, or some other unique take. But just making a second rate example of a popular genre isn't worthwhile because why would anyone play a 2nd rate version of a better game? Concord, the biggest flop of all time is a great example of this. The game was really well made in most respects with a budget of $200 million or something absurd but it was only 2nd rate compared to the top 5 -10 coop shooters so there was 0 draw for anyone to play it.

[@AverusMuto]

@gameboardgames that's seems reasonable. I plan to create two categories. Games people are interested in and games i want to play. As long as I can make it interesting enough for the fans, I might be able to keep making games i enjoy.

[@JoachimPileborg]

I have been wondering for a while, what is the background image on your laptop? From some game? Something else?

[@bitemegames]

It's "Dragon Bones" by Stefan Koidl, I run it through wallpaper engine with some dynamicism. -M

[@ArcanumRonin]

I'm working on an only up type game. I can do a consultation with you guys?

[@BasilHumke-e1y]

tbf if you described hollow knight in a sentence or two im not sure how many people you could sell on it...

[@dakotah4866]

Even if I made a game and put it on a platform the platform means nothing to me. Just put the game on disc and sell it.

[@pacifico4999]

If we start making a city builder now, won't the trend already have passed by the time it's done?

[@bitemegames]

That's one's a pretty evergreen genre. I wouldn't worry too much about it, just keep an eye out on the games that are releasing around you (and what they're doing better/different), not just the popular city builders of a few years ago. -M

[@IndieGameClinic]

I don’t think it’s about trends: it’s entering a genre when there is still room for you to innovate successfully in it. Any genre can potentially keep on going, but getting in early allows you to be the leader in that niche.

[@mandisaw]

Consider the genre audience - are they just here for the current zeitgeist, or are they long-haulers? SimCity came out in '89 - you have city builder fans who've been playing for 35yrs! They got old, but they aren't going away 😅 Keep in mind though that some audiences are especially fickle and fast-moving - kids' games, for instance. And streamers kind of follow the herd - cozy games will stick around, but I'm less certain about "cozy game streamers", for instance.

[@pacifico4999]

A lot of good responses, I appreciate that

[@emanueltejadacoste2250]

I would like sometimes you put the names of the game in a corner when you show part of then

[@bitemegames]

I do that, any game that isn't just a nameless protoype has its name at the bottom left corner of the screen. -M

[@smallcube-zn2mm]

I have plan to make a game named "Price of Progress" Hope you'll make commentary about my game idea :) Edit: my mail name is almost similar to profile name

[@n00bc0de7]

Using Touhou as an example of a game that no one wants to play was probably not the best example. That shitty art has made a crap ton of money.

[@mattiaslundell5668]

First! Wow. First first 🥇