Bizarre Tactics in Star Wars: The Last Jedi

[@seekertwo1]

The entire space battle sequence is best described by Shakespeare...... "A tale told by an idiot (RJ).....full of sound and fury, signifying nothing."

[@lucaswalker6919]

The entire battle sequence is basically the entire movie

[@flankspeed]

That'll do.

[@revimfadli4666]

Do you mean a lot of the 9 films?

[@ScaryMason]

STAR WARS (in all ten and half films) has gross tactical errors. If Episode VIII had flawless battle tactics it wouldn’t fit in.

[@bettercallconnolly8549]

"A series of terrible tactical decisions" - Rian Johnson's autobiography.

[@seekertwo1]

BetterCallConnolly .....or RJ's parents.

[@darthXreven]

it's sad that the guy who made a few of the best episodes of Breaking Bad ended up making SW suck so much harder than Jar Jar Abrams did...and people think Jar Jar is gonna fix things?? keep dreaming people go watch Expanse, Orville, Kiljoys & Dark matter up to 3/4 the way into season 3 [when they get back the blink drive that's where you stop, unless you wanna be pissed that the show is dead] that's if you want good current sci-fi, don't follow SW or STD, let those burn cus the less money they make the sooner they box it all up or reboot or rethink their plans in some way....they need to jump SW into the future by at least 1000 years just to get to a place free of the constraints but even then I bet they'd still frakk it up lol Hollywood and TV are hell bent on f**king themselves and their IP yet their IP is what keeps the lights on, it's what brings in fans but if they ruin everything what then?? they're killing their own business with every remake, with every reboot and every bad sequel meh

[@mrfister1234]

Ok look I get that rian Johnson has alot of haters atm but his credentials speak for himself (minus the last jedi) The best 3 episodes of breaking bad. Much of the praise was directed to him and not Gilligan. You can write something but the product will end up shit if you have a shit director. Just watch the last season of game of thrones and the final 2 episodes of season 6 of got Cult classic brick The fucking funny brothers bloom The well loved and critically acclaimed Looper

[@nerowulfee9210]

Sorry, but Game of Thrones is shit, and HBO can go fuck themselves for shitting on a good books.

[@mrfister1234]

nero wulfee92 that's what I'm saying tho???? Reread my comment??? A good director salvaged the season 7 of got and the final episodes of season 6. If u really thing about it, the battle of the bastard shouldn't even have happened if Ramsey stayed inside his fucking fortress lmao. Stupid scripts that was saved by the director of this episodes The credit for those 3 breaking bad episode ESPECIALLY OZYMANDIAS was all directed to rian and not gilligan Plus the original comment I replied to says that rian Johnson's autobiography is failure but he hasn't said anything to me that refutes rians resume minus the last jedi. The man is an acclaimed director and writer before the last jedi and u can't take that away from the man

[@simonc586]

There's no tactics used just varying levels of sheer incompetence.

[@ArghastOfTheAlliance]

What to expect from this irrational, overrated franchise of science fantasy.

[@failedexperiment9073]

Simon C Like in pretty much any other space opera...

[@SupermanBlack1987]

NightRaven 1901 man if Commander / Admiral Adama was in charge of the resistance. You wouldn't need Jedis to defeat the first order. Under his leadership they would have made very short work of the first order.

[@SupermanBlack1987]

NightRaven 1901 that man has done a lot more with a lot less.

[@irradiatedslagheap7933]

What does the abbreviation CAP stand for? I'm a poor, foolish humanoid who has not yet been informed, or (more likely) I've forgotten.

[@HawkTheRed]

" *It's an Elaborate Ruse!* " Indeed, my good sir! *Adjust monocle*

[@MrDUneven]

It appears to be a plot of intrigue.

[@LucyWest370]

@@MrDUneven we have been deceived, it appears to be a situation where people lie in wait to make a surprise attack!

[@psoma_brufd]

With reference to the shields, the fighters under Kylo Ren were able to destroy the hanger when the shields were on full so maybe it wouldn't have helped though you would expect the bridge to have stronger shields. This also proves the necessity for multiple hangers in case one is destroyed and it increases the number of fighters that can launch at the same time.

[@squasher0487]

Psoma_Brufd, just wanted to point out that there are two hangers on the Raddus, but one has fighters and the other has transports.

[@psoma_brufd]

Squasher 04 that doesn't actually change my point, they still had all fighters in one hanger which isn't great.

[@Schnittertm1]

Actually, on a capital class space ship, in space, where the distances to fire are so long that computers are usually doing the targetting, I question the need to have a bridge with windows on top of the ship, instead of deep inside the ship behind armored bulkheads. The new Galactica didn't suffer from cinematographically exposed and aesthetically pleasing bridge on top of the ship, it used the concept of having the bridge deep inside the ship, protected by several layers of armor.

[@psoma_brufd]

Schnittertm1 In Star Wars, computers rarely do the targeting or firing. Your second point whilst valid does not suit the Star Wars design aesthetic.

[@lordmalachi6]

On very rare occasions this was actually done in legends. The YT-1300 owners manual even states it had a from the factory option to embed the cockpit deep inside and use scanners and cameras to project the exterior view onto holograms for increased defense. The engines and central mandible area were also heavily armored. This of course took up cargo space but if you frequented very dangerous territory, perhaps it was worth it. On the flip side, Legends also has a few notable stories of ships with too much automation going rogue or being hacked early on in the timeline, and forever making designers lean towards manual and visual operation when possible. A bridge with no windows "theoretically" could be hacked to see nothing at all. But, that's a terrible argument imo.

[@DocWolph]

IT needs to be understood that the people who wrote Star Wars, and directed it, have very little interest or understanding in how to engage in a military style conflict, real, fantasy, or Sci-fi. I am often completely flummoxed when key characters are supposed to be super competent, or at least "not stupid", and yet they prevail because their adversaries are wildly, borderline insanely, more stupid. This new Star Wars Trilogy has been a near unending cavalcade of stupidity that kills any and all credibility for anything any character does or has done to them.

[@MrDUneven]

Kind of weird that they have no understanging of military matters considering that there is "war" in the title of the series.

[@1Scimetar]

I understand Holdo's tactics to be "hold course and be a decoy to protect the escape craft," and it worked for a while, but put her to far out of position to intercept any turbo laser fire when the First Order detected the escape craft, 30 seconds of watching in horror as the escape craft are picked off, the deciding on the ramming maneuver to fix it.

[@s.beaumier8765]

The First Order's Problem: Operational Incompetence, Their Commanders are easy to fool, Their ships are strategically worthless, Kylo Ren. The Resistance's Problem: Useless Undisciplined Personnel, They don't have a clue what they're doing, Sexism, Admiral Holdo.

[@ripwolfe]

Forget tactics -- the whole command structure in itself was a cluster-f. I thought _for sure_ that Holdo was going to betray the entire fleet and, I dunno, have them all tractored into the mega-behemoth what-its-ship. At least that would explain her uncommander like behavior. What type of leader doesn't share the current state of strategy with her best and brightest in order to find a way out of a lost cause? A traitorous one at best, a dumb-ass one at worst. Turns out she was the latter. For all the flaws of TLJ, the character of Holdo was egregious.

[@imperialguardsman135]

In the darkness a blind man is the best guide. In an age of Madness look to the madman to show the way. ~Imperial Thought of the Day

[@PyroManZII]

But the movie does show she discussed her plan; only with other officers on board though which is quite normal for any military command. The movie does show us she didn't discuss the plans with Poe, but he had just recklessly endangered the entire fleet about five minutes before to chase some glory and had been demoted by Leia moments before too.

[@zarlei6048]

@@PyroManZII What do you mean chase some glory? The guy just took down the real world equivalent of a carrier task force with ten little ships. Does the Resistance expect to defeat the First Order without losing anything and running away for the whole time?

[@PyroManZII]

@@zarlei6048 It is chasing glory in this case as the Resistance fleet that was there was in no position to engage with the equivalent of a Carrier Task Force. There have to be moments where you acknowledge that the best course of action is to to retreat for the time being and hopefully reunite with the bulk of your fleet, in which case you can launch a counter offensive. Poe risked the whole fleet for one ship out of thousands.

[@Prich319]

@@PyroManZII No, it's not "chasing glory" as you put it because while Poe shut off his comm, the bomber crews didn't. They would have known that Leia had given the order to withdraw, and that Poe was ignoring a direct order. Despite this, they elected to follow Poe regardless. Also, sacrificing a couple shitty bombers and their crews to take out a "fleet killer" dreadnought crewed by thousands of FO personnel is easily the best trade you can make in terms of attrition and denying a high value military asset to an enemy. The lives of those crews were spent, not wasted.

[@jonashemmingsson7301]

"Some wierd tactical decisions"? You mean pretty much all of them? Edit: they wouldn't even need to have evenly distributed shields to defend against the fighters, they could just have had like 1% shield strength and redirect the rest to the aft. Also, why are the shields projected ridiculously far from the Raddus? That's got to be wasting a lot of power.

[@robertmartinu8803]

No, not neccessary. Some are wierd. Others outright treason.

[@jonashemmingsson7301]

Robert Martinu Point taken

[@alfredkugler3043]

I don't know, the decision to destroy the dreadnaught was IMO the right one. The only one I can remember. Also the one where the commanding crew is complaining about.

[@alfredkugler3043]

SmashStomp Inc sure, the command could at any time have ordered the rest of the attack back. And then blaming Poe for the losses was... slightly irrational. But what I meant was that Poe's decision to go after the dreadnaught was tactically and strategically sound. And that it was the ONLY good tactical and strategical decision in the whole movie. And ironically it was a decision used by the writers to exemplify how much a loose cannon Poe is. And please, don't insult them. I mean, hacks have feelings too.

[@sharko4093]

I have a personal theory to explain the shields both being rather powerful at defending and also being projected away from the ship. We've only seen that ONCE before in Star Wars as far as I know, and it was in The Freemaker adventures but please keep reading! I know The Freemaker adventures aren't exactly the most popular thing in Star Wars being a Lego show but it gives evidence to the Raddus' shields and also explains how it was capable of the hyperspace ram. In the series, they built the Arrowhead, a starfighter with a bubble shield powered by a Kyber Crystal which made the ship literally immune to any amount of Turbolaser fire from a Destroyer which made it a fleet killer. The thing had a blade which allowed it to fly right through the actual hull of an ISD and simply slice it in half, sound familiar? Now, my theory is since the Arrowhead had Kyber Crystal powered shields which both made it completely impervious to Turbolasers as well as give it the ability to destroy fleets of ships by simply flying right through them, I reckon the Raddus also had this Kyber Crystal shielding tech which explains the backstory to it's "experimental shields" as well as explains why it could take so much fire from those enormous cannons and even explained why the huge blue wave of plasma was sent out in the ram. It was because when the ships collided, the Kyber Crystal powering the shields ruptured and exploded with the force a few nukes as we know Kyber Crystals do depending on their size. Tell me what you think of my theory.

[@skyslasher2297]

One of my biggest problems why was destroying one fighter bay the blow that kept the resistance from fighting the raddes is a huge ship and has several launch bays so surely they would’ve had more fighters

[@Trikeboy2]

no, because Poe destroyed all the other fighters while disobeying orders

[@skyslasher2297]

RM_Prime that doesn’t make any sense aside from the bombers the resistance didn’t lose a lot of fighters

[@Trikeboy2]

19 ships went out, 8 came back.

[@BlueRaven893]

@@Trikeboy2 The ones we see on screen, yes. If Rian was more clear concerning this, there wouldn't be a problem.

[@Trikeboy2]

@@BlueRaven893 Shortly after the battle, there is a shot of Leia looking at a squad screen on her console. The surviving ships are green, the destroyed ships are red. How much clearer do they have to be?

[@seamus6387]

My thoughts exactly, it was an "ok" movie but well, it had so many plot holes....

[@darkwolf4434]

seamus6387 Agreed

[@BuffGrinch123]

I quite like this unscripted format and the video was great. Keep up the great work lads.

[@andrewsartscalemodels]

Thank you!!!!!!! This film drove me crazy with the tactics! Especially the scene with the shuttles fleeing and the starting scene totally absent of tie fighters.

[@Mobius_118]

You don't even need to go so far as to say they needed to launch a patrol. They just need fighters that are on an alert status that can launch and intercept at any given moment. It's why I always viewed how Battlestar Galactica handled its Viper squadrons in this manner as superior and the fact that a universe like Star Wars never had a concept like that always baffled me.

[@datfloppynoodle3677]

@spacedock her plan was for the shuttles to pass unnoticed to the planet, and she would pilot the carrier so that the empire would chase her. But after the hacker that was with finn and rose told the first order about the shuttles, her plan was ruined because the shuttles weren't supposed to be discovered. I agree it took her a long time to figure out something to do, but her original plan wasnt to ram the supremacy.

[@datfloppynoodle3677]

ZDProletariat they weren't cloaked at all, the whole idea was that the first order would be so focused on destroying the capital ships, that they wouldn't be scanning for smaller ships and fighters, especially after kylo blew up their hangar bays. But then the hacker dude with rose and Finn told them to scan for smaller ships and the first order discovered them when they did.

[@datfloppynoodle3677]

ZDProletariat oh, well then, that's just fuckin stupid.

[@mitchellhorton9382]

It's both. They talk about cloaking (On the FO ship) while on the shuttles they LITERALLY SAY "They won't be looking for small ships"

[@datfloppynoodle3677]

Mitchell Horton one of the many reasons I hate this movie

[@mitchellhorton9382]

lmao then you care way too much. SW is full of plot holes and convenient bullshit. Always has been. Settle down.

[@ammosophobia]

DEAR RAIN WILSON ... I mean, Rian Johnson ... please re-watch Star Wars (1977) - _INT - Millenium Falcon (in hyperspace)_ Princess Leia: They let us go. It was the only reason for the ease of our escape. Han Solo: Easy? You call that easy? Princess Leia: *They're tracking us.* Han Solo: Not this ship, sister.

[@Jarvis466]

Universal Exports The scene right before the one you mentioned: Tarkin Are they away? Vader They have just made the jump into hyperspace. Tarkin You're sure the *homing beacon* is secure aboard their ship? I'm taking an awful risk, Vader. This had better work.

[@ammosophobia]

Fuckin' A!

[@pendraco2000]

zing!

[@itisthomascasey]

Hey, Daniel! I hardly ever comment on KZbin, but I wanted to say I loved your unscripted tone. You sounded more at ease and natural than you sometimes do in the more scripted videos! Definitely keep giving this a go. Love the channel.

[@Some_Call_Me_Pietro]

1:53 my understanding was that the Raddus couldn't withstand the concentrated firepower from the aft so they needed to angle to deflectors or have the engines destroyed right there. Immediate priority took precedence.

[@ironsheriffal6472]

Ship crewman - "Sir, Admiral Ackbar's ship is being attacked from all sides!" Admiral M.Mouse - "Tell him not to worry. This is a Disney franchise now so the good guys will be ..........oh shit....."

[@BrowncoatGofAZ]

I’d like to point out that Holdo’s original plan was to send all the resistance to Crait in cloaked shuttles to hide while she drew the First Order away, likely sacrificing herself when the Raddus ran out of fuel. That got sunk when DJ gave away/guessed it to the First Order. She was shocked when the Supremacy started targeting the shuttles. I can only assume she was paralyzed with horror before she did what she did. To be fair, taking out the supremacy immediately might have saved more lives in the long run than shielding the ships and then being shot to hell.

[@cptnemo20kl]

Overall, I concur with your statements (and enjoy these unscripted videos), as they do come from a place of tactics. In particular, the Raddus attempting to act as a barrier is a missed opportunity for tension and theme exploration in the movie. If there was a scene where she programmed the ship to block fire - but couldn't block them all - then it would be a thematic ramp up. Holdo sees that the plan has failed and the shuttles are targeted, and then she steers to block in a great sacrifice. However, not being enough to simply be the shield, she takes it upon herself to be the sword. It would've been a very interesting statement about taking the fight to evil and a nice inverse of Poe. Poe learned to know when to run versus charge headlong; Holdo would've demonstrated exactly when to charge versus run (or be stagnant). Keep up the good work.

[@VladiSSius]

There was Plot Armor Now we have Plot Logic

[@ИванСнежков-з9й]

We also have Idiot Plot. The definition in wikipedia and tvtropes sound like "a plot which is kept in motion solely by virtue of the fact that everybody involved is an idiot, and where the story would otherwise be over if this were not the case."

[@williamnorton9547]

Again, I'd love to see videos on the Yamato from Space Battleship Yamato (Star Blazers as I first knew it) and the Arcadia from Space Pirate Harlock.

[@derekrubicky4810]

AMEN!?!? Also wonder how the Mega Star Destroyer, every now and then, missed the Resistance cruiser when shooting but miraculously was able to pick off smaller and more distant shuttles!?!?

[@katsarelas1947]

I use to think it was funny the wiki page stated (maybe it still does?) that The Raddus was listed as “being able to hold at least 5 fighters” just because that’s all we really saw inside the one hanger and I was like “the ships 3km long and you have TEN fighters?!”

[@zorkwhouse8125]

Great content as always. Comment: I also think I would have aimed for the bridge of the supremacy when lining up to ram it - granted you're gonna do a lot of damage no matter where you hit, but b/c of air-lock systems etc it is possible to seal off parts of ships where the hull has been compromised. Therefore why not go for the place where you also have the best chance of killing important people also - in addition, if you hit the thing dead center and split it in two, it would be much harder to do damage mitigation (I'll confess I sadly haven't seen the movie and so if it turns out that her ramming actually destroyed the entire ship then just ignore my comment, but if the first order did manage to salvage it and if the main bad guys on board survived then consider the comment.)

[@GizmoDuck_1860]

I'm so glad it wasn't just me that couldn't follow the plot of The Last Jedi.

[@Rhymael]

I think Holdo not putting the Radus between the first order and the fleeing shuttles, at least right away, can be explained away with the suggestion that the resistance didn't want to draw the first order's attention to the (apparently damn near invisible) planet they were fleeing toward. If you really want to take the universe seriously and explain away the bad decisions, I suppose we could imagine maybe Snoke was engaged in some sort of inverted battle meditation. (Rather than make his own side smarter, he was dumbing down his prey. And apparently himself as well.)

[@justnoah2073]

I was told by purple haired lady that the fighters had already retreated. So that's why I ordered the ships sheilds like that. Now when I look back I think she was trying to get me killed.

[@drakkonusfrostburn4038]

Great points as always. I hadn't even noticed that they had realigned the shields before the Tie fighters bombed the bridge. Great idea of having her eclipse the transports. I always wondered why she didn't just jump to hyperspace immediately to get the fleet to follow her. Then when they destroyed the Raddus they would believe that the rebellion was over. Then the transports could safely make it to the old base.

[@fxDELTAx]

Regarding protecting the shuttles. The original idea was to pretend they never left in the shuttle, and so when they destroyed the cruiser the First Order would think they got everyone, and not bother landing on the planet. By changing course she would have given away their plan, and which would have lead the first order to persue they down to the planet and the survivors would have all died in the following siege. The ground battle happened in the movie because they were betrayed by the criminal mastermind.

[@sethb3090]

I annoy my friends and acquaintances with this stuff whenever TLJ comes up so I'm down for this

[@lantinian]

There is reason Holdo DOES NOT position the Carrier between the Star destroyers and the escaping ships. The escaping ships launch on a different vector hoping they will not be detected and can escape to their secret back up base without pursuit. Holdo maintains current course to take the Imperial fleet away.

[@kybercat7]

Disney is dead long live legends!!!

[@eds1942]

1 - We’ve known that hyperspace tracking has been around since the Empire Strikes Back. So, it makes sense that; a). They should’ve made several jumps afterwards. b). they should’ve kept the guard up. 2 - As part of standard procedure, at least some of the fighters should’ve been on patrol with the others on alert especially shortly after the operation. 3 - The fighters and shuttles that the Resistance had should’ve been hyperspace capable. And we’ve seen in previous movies and the series’ that the fighters often hyperspace in and out either by themselves or escorting the fleets, meaning there should’ve no need for them to deploy after the jump in or re dock before jumping out. I mean, even the some of the games in the early and mid 90’s got half of these issues right.

[@Schnittertm1]

1.) Totally agree. 2.) Yes, CAP should always be there, however, considering the size of the FO fleet, they would have had to go up against over 1,000 fighters and strike craft (if the FO deigned to even launch them). Fuel was not an issue for the FO, as was losing men, yet they did state the goal that they wanted the Resistance destroyed. This destruction could have been achieved even before that and without the loss of a capital ship. However, since all military leaders in this farce of a SW movie have been displayed as utter buffoons, this didn't happen. 3.) The fighters were certainly hyperspace capable, but they didn't have any left. As for shuttles, if they are just transport shuttles to transfer personnel and supplies between the capital ship and the planet, then those might not have had a hyperspace drive. Some of the reasons for not fitting such a shuttle with hyperspace drives could be that it is not needed for short distance hops between orbit and planet surface, to reduce cost, to save space to be able to transport more in one go, etc., etc. 4.) The real kicker, though, is this one. Why, since hyperspace ramming is a possibility, didn't they evacuate the smaller capital ships and ram those into the fleet, thereby keeping the Raddus alive and able to escape? Oh, wait, I forgot the incompetence of the military leaders. Sorry, my bad.

[@ThomasPurcell]

Holdo: "Men are bad because they fight and blow things up". Then she blows things up.

[@paulomr445]

This might be late and get no attention but here it goes: about the raddus not eclipsing the fleeing ships, I might be wrong and just making up a solution but I think it did, it just didn't work because of the arking turbolasers witch I think are a weapon specifically made for this situation, hitting targets that are out of your visibility by arking shots around them.

[@thepiratemongoose8965]

So many things that rubbed me wrong in this movie. I get that Holdo wanted to discipline Poe, but he was still her CAG because she didn't name anyone to replace him. There was literally nobody between Holdo and Poe in the chain of command. He needed to know what was going on so that he could give effective orders to his subordinates. Holdo was supposedly this hardened combat veteran, but when she saw the transports start taking fire she was apparently paralyzed for several minutes. She could not have risen to the rank she held if she was in the habit of being horrified into indecision at critical moments. Especially in wartime. The First Order admiral grumping that they should have launched fighters "5 minutes ago" during the initial battle sequence. Why the hell didn't they? Or simply blow him into tiny little idiot-shaped bits when they detected him, before he was too close for them to engage with the ship batteries? When the other Resistance ships were about to run out of fuel, why didn't any of them turn about and perform (or at the very least attempt) lightspeed rams? Squeeze one last iota of utility out of them because they're going to be lost anyway. They even could have calculated fuel reserves and consumption and ferried fuel around so that all of them would run out at the same time to maximize the chance of inflicting crippling damage among the FO fleet. The lightspeed ram was pretty cool. Of course, it should have inflicted a lot more damage; a baseball accelerating to lightspeed in atmosphere would trigger a massive thermonuclear explosion. With the material density of spaceships, and energy being a factor of the square of velocity, the blast would have been orders of magnitude greater. And that's before we even get into the radiation... Anyhoo, I really enjoyed the unscripted format.

[@nickvinsable3798]

Part of it could be a “Theatrical Dramatic Time Lag”. Otherwise, I’d have to understand what hell was going on all over the galaxy to better grasp certain stupidities.

[@Zoloft77]

So, the First Order comes in with a flotilla chasing down the Resistance in the Krait system. I'm surprised no tactics were used by the First Order to head them off, set up an ambush, and possibly launch their fighters when the fighterless Resistance ships come into range.

[@michaeldegooijer7401]

Everything you've covered makes sense Daniel. Thank you. But I guess the directors wanted to build up drama in the movie.

[@Lightscribe225]

No he wanted to subvert expectations. We expected sound tactics. Those expectations were subverted. Mission accomplished.

[@DarkKnightofIT]

This reminds me of a saying that I heard from TF2 "Your team is stupid but my team is slightly less stupid"

[@Dingus343]

Cool vid, but for the sake of friendly debate here are some rebutles; 1. Considering that the Resestance had just pulled off two allout attacks with there fighters and the fact that the idea of being tracked in hyperspace had never happened before I think we can forgive the fighter squadrons for not being deployed. That and... 2. Both the fighters and bridge being destroyed were pulled off buy Kylo (sorry if mis-spelled) doing an 1000/1 shots so I feel it’s unfair to put that solely to Resestance incompetence if at all. 3. Why woul they split up and doom the smaller ships crews if they have a plan that could save everyone. 4. The plan being rediculuss is ment to be as it shows Poe grow from a man willing to risk good lives on a high stakes plan to a person who doesn’t look for the win at all costs. To be fair I’m happy to overlook some of this for the same reason I was able to overlook “how could a Deathstar be destroyed by one fighter?”, because I loved the story the movie told. However I understand that doesn’t mean you or anyone else should be discouraged from thinking about these things. Great vid!

[@javierb5754]

I think the reason why the Raddus couldn’t eclipse the transports was because the Supremacy’s Heavy turbolasers arch

[@juurika22]

I think I found a way to explain FTL ramming that happened and why no one has done it before you need signal lock to do it but no signal has been strong enough or is shielded to prevent that except the new FTL tracer.

[@ror359]

I think these can be explained. On 1, you could argue that there would have been a CAP if Poe hadn't commited the fighter wing to the battle, destroying many and forcing the rest to rearm/repair/refuel. On 2, the implication must be that had not the shields been doubled rear, then the Raddus would have been destroyed then and there by the guns of the fleet. I think it was supposed to be a catch 22 situation, but Ackbar made the call that while guns could kill the Raddus, fighters could only damage it. On 3, Holdo does explain her plan to leia as to draw the first order fleet away from Crait so the resistance can use it as their rally point and to call in their allies. The shuttles are stealthed and are only detected when finn contacts poe. Thats the point when holdo makes the decision to ram the Supremacy there and then. I alwo have a theory that a lot of the odd decision making in TLJ can be explained if in the original script rather than the First Order having a way to track ships through hyperspeed they instead had a tracking device/spy somewhere on the resistance fleet; but this was changed to hyperspace tracking at a later point for some reason. This would explain Holdo's secrecy, the shots of Rey's tracker to the fleet that went nowhere, Hux's line about how they had the resistance 'like a dog on a leash' etc, etc. I also appreciate your concern about negativity of the last jedi. It does have flaws, but I want more star wars films which are big ambitious and weird, not safe legends remakes.

[@leovin00]

> battle takes place in space > ships decide to line up in a more or less 2d plane anyway because logic

[@frankharr9466]

I explained it to myself that one of the themes of this movie is that after so much war, the governance culture is deeply sick. No one can make or cummunicate decisions any more. There is no more team effort. They're ust tired and going through the motions. They just want it to end. So to my mind,the theme of this stretch of movies should be, rebuilding the ability to have a useful command structure. But what do I know?

[@BlindIo42]

Love the candid videos, keep it up

[@sharkbaek]

Most of tactical errors in this movie can be explained by two words. 'Bad Writing'

[@obsidian53-b32]

Can one of your future video talk about the New, First Order and Resistance Ships. Talk about their positives and negatives and Rate them from Best to Worst.

[@mattwho81]

What made the original trilogy Great was that the Empire was ferociously competent. Those star destroyer captains knew exactly what to do, so beating them was a big deal. In fact the Empire biggest problem wasn’t rebels but a couple of Sith interfering with military operations and killing senior personnel on a whim. The First Order is a bunch of buffoons by comparison.

[@schwarzerritter5724]

The First Order was only able to destroy the hangar, because the Resistance ship has no periscope on its bridge.

[@imperialguardsman135]

In the darkness a blind man is the best guide. In an age of Madness look to the madman to show the way.

[@jamesbrooks9321]

TLJ isn't a tactical space warfare drama, it's a slapstick comedy, everyone behaved exactly as should be expected

[@TheGreatSeraphim]

4:25 You don't know much about Star Wars huh... What she was doing was disabling the built in safeties built directly into the hyperdrive engines thats prevents people from crashing into other ships/planets/stars/etc. You see this in Rouge One when the fleet attempts to flee. When the Destroyer drops out of hyperspace and blocks the ones that are about to jump you can see their hyperspace engines immediately cut out. That is why people dont just kamikaze ships into other ships like that all the time.

[@promcheg]

ha, it is even worse. Draw 2 blobs on the paper, first are resistance capital ships, second is the first order. Draw a fat arrow pointing forward (from second to the first blob), write "F". This is your force vector, resulting from a force applied by engines. F = m * a, where a is an acceleration, aka increase in velocity per time period. Then draw a couple smaller blobs on the starboard side of a resistance ship, and draw another arrow. Pointing at 90 degrees of the first one. This is the state of the whole system at the moment those buses leave resistance ship. In the next second, the speed of "first order -> resistance" system increases by the value of |a| (F=ma), the next second it is |a| + |a|, the next |a| +|a| +|a| etc. So although ALL ships, resistance/first order/buses, have at the start the same velocity alongside F vector, the group resistance/first order ships are getting faster every second, leaving the busses behind. Until they get passed by first order ships completely and lost in the vastness of space. Another thing, when Leya gets blown out of the hole in the bulkhead, at the moment of explosion, her speed is the sum of the ship's speed and the speed she gets from the explosion, in the next second she still have the same speed, but the ship is accelerating, leaving her behind, until she splashes like a bug on the windshield of the first order ship. And another thing, the bombers. The issue is not the lack of gravity, they could easily expel the bombs by applying force. It is the trajectory those bombs have after leaving the bomber, they behave as if they are flying through the air. Another issue is, very common to mindless Hollywood version of sci-fi, the space is 3D (at least), you don't have to get close to a target ship by flying from the front, you could just calculate the speed of target, move "up" from the plane in front of target, and drop the bombs, which in space are never bombs, but mines, and could be just placed in front of target. Waiting until it's run into the minefield.

[@nikstone2420]

Admiral holdo wasn’t capable of leading a one speeder parade, let alone a rebel fleet.

[@Zappygunshot]

Everybody hates on Vice Admiral Holdo and I would be lying if I said it was unjustified, but I still love her, and the reasons are twofold and very basic: 1) The actress' character in Fantastic Beasts was rather good; 2) She has bright purple dyed hair and I cannot bring myself to dislike brightly dyed hair I just love it too much. So there.

[@78beast]

Captain Picard facepalmed the whole time.

[@killerdoritoWA]

"I submit here and now, that is what we all must do - We must fight... to run away!" -Captain Jack Sparrow

[@TheWinezen]

The Resistance lost all their tactical advantage because they do not understand or were unwilling to understand the need to sacrifice some assets in order to achieve an strategic objective. They had physics on their side when they still had light speed fuel and they could have saved 99.99% of their personnel at the same time. They should have planned a rendezvous point to meet up and move all their crew and a majority portion of their light speed fuel into half of their light speed vessels. Once their people were ready in their escaping ships. The remaining half of the light speed vessels with minimal fuel and a skeleton crew can re position the vessels to ram the enemy ships at light speed. So much energy would be released by the collision that the scattering debris from the impact alone would be enough to cripple the pursuing fleet if not destroy it entirely. Just budget one vessel projectile to hit at least one enemy destroyer close enough to impact another. In fact, I think the bridge controls from the ships could be rigged to go off on autopilot giving the skeleton crew time to evacuate and rejoin their brethren. Once the ramming fleet hits their targets, the remaining resistance fleet can use the confusion to escape in different directions. With the additional fuel they siphon off the sacrificial vessels they could easily meet up at the rendezvous point and begin rebuilding efforts. Really... the rebels squandered their chance to wipe out Snoke himself. The producers of Star Wars need to know that the sci-fi scene today is no longer dominated by Star Wars logic. This tactic would have been used by Commander Adama in BSG without hesitation that is why that show is still such a bad ass show today, years after it went off the air.

[@DragNetJoe]

There was so much wrong with TLJ, but not placing the Raddus to "block" the transports isn't one of them. At any reasonable distance the amount of space that the Raddus would eclipse would be trivial and the shuttles would move out of it almost immediately, unless the shuttles traveled a perfectly straight path along a line between the Supremacy, the Raddus and their destination. Star Wars distances are always depicted unrealistically close, but not that close. How about - Why didn't they hyperspace ram with one of the smaller ships before they ran out of "fuel"? Why didn't they sneak off in shuttles one at a time, since apparently you can leave the battlefield, run off to a casino planet and return totally unnoticed? Why didn't the New Order continue to press the very effective fighter attack, because they might lose a few fighters? Since when did they care? If Rebel/Resistance ships are "faster" why wasn't the distance from the NO increasing? Why didn't the NO hyperspace a couple ships in front of the Resistance? I could go on for days.

[@Graymaven90]

What REALLY pissed me off was that none of the other capital ship pilots who died so their crew could survive thought of the hyperspace ramming tactical. Like seriously you're willing to die for your crew already and the ship isn't going to make it regardless, why not get everyone off the ship ASAP and leave enough fuel for a kamakazi run? Even if they only managed to take out the ugly bohemoth, IT'S ONLY DAMN SHIP THAT CAN TRACK THEM THROUGH HYPERSPACE. PROBLEM MOTHER-FRAKKING SOLVED.

[@TotallyNotAFox]

The first tactical mistakes where already made in the Lucas Arts meeting room

[@mgBabylonRocker]

Seriously, 6 year old me came up with more intricate battles than the ones in TLJ

[@Validus241]

... was the Bunkerbuster inspired by the Defender-class light corvette from The Old Republic? Seems pretty close.

[@nickh8200]

Use some fighters to hyperspace ram the rebel fleet before it deploys the transports. Hell, they could even afford 1/1 loss of star destroyers to the rebel ships

[@Beuwen_The_Dragon]

There is also the issue of the First order star fighters retreating after severe damage had been done to the Raddus.. 'They are out of our range, we won't be able to support our fighters" Support them from what? The RebSistance just lost all their star fighter support,several surface weapons were wiped out, the bridge is destroyed and the entire front of the ship is unshielded... I mean sure your three already launched starfighters may not be able to do too much more on their own, but surely the First order fleet has more than JUST those three Starfighters? You have a massive undefended and half unshielded target that could easily be taken down by starfighters, but you choose instead to play a game of 'waste fuel and time"? Surely there are more pressing matters of 'taking over the galaxy" to be seeing to? MASSIVE fail on the part of the First Order. Though that is true for most of TLJ...

[@norad_clips]

You mean all of them? Yeah, I was waiting for her to shield the ships, too. Seriously...

[@orumonuldor1340]

Interdictor cruisers are a thing. Holdo's tactic should have failed in universe if the writers had a clue.

[@wepntech]

yes, that standing around part just made me face-palm. a lot of stuff throughout all the star wars movies do that though to be fair.

[@t4rv0r60]

thex should hire spacedock and eckhard for doing space combat. they give advices to make this battley Entertaining AND reasonable and disney can get much money out of it.

[@MrBLARG85]

I think we view this a a big problem in he film because of the way the film wanted us to view the outcome of all this. They try to picture the end result as a sad victory, when it would have worked better if they acknowledged mistakes were made and they had failed. Then at least we wouldn't view everyone as "so" stupid, because they could recognize and least some part of what went wrong was their fault.

[@greggv8]

An impact like that should have left *nothing* of the mega ship, or anything else nearby, except some tiny chunks. She activated the hyperdrive and hit the mega ship during the acceleration phase while still in real space. What's canon info for the % of light speed a ship hits just prior to entering hyperspace?

[@Gurren813]

Why did the Supremacy only have normal turbo laser batteries and not some Mandator IV turrets? Kinda a waste to have such a big ship without equally big guns.

[@ericm3031]

you just saying what we all were already thinking when watching that movie

[@TheJadeFist]

Fighters have to break off to refuel or rearm, ok that would make sense if we didn't watch Luke previously take his X-Wing cross the galaxy after a fight, Land and take off at least once without a chance to have possibly refuelled or anything unless he just stopped off at a gas station off camera on his way to Degobah. It's a realistic sounding problem that could happen, but it kinda goes against even just the universe as presented directly on screen in the mainline movies.

[@GoldenSkies061]

I agree with the problems with tactics, but I don't agree with all the blind hate in these comments. Haven't we gotten over yelling about this movie? Some people are saying that there are no tactics in this movie. Well, almost no star wars movies have actual tactics. What about launching only 12 fighters to defend the death star? What about not using your star destroyers to do their job until halfway through the battle of Endor? Please, just hold all these movies to the same standard. Also, Spacedock, I'm talking about the commenters, not you. The video was great.

[@FBI-ju5no]

the gaps your seeing in the logic is from the person who directed the movie. if he had consulted anyone with even the smallest amount of experience in navel strategy, the entire movie would not have happened. which would have been a good thing.

[@Akuma75]

A thousand like for this video. There is some good stuff in SW8. So many thing put me out of the movie. Like the element that you enlight.

[@MrJcn89]

I liked the unscripted video. It was a well thought out video.... Not that you have had plenty of time to think on the subjects or anything lol. Keep it up!

[@JelaniWood]

Good video and all fair points. This movie was not well thought out at all. There are individual 22 minute episodes of Rebels and Clone Wars that put this entire movie to shame. Put Filoni in charge.

[@AngryKettle]

I think I like the unscripted format more, actually. I like the less calculated more honest (for last of a better word) approach to the discussion. For me, I dislike the things where it's clear they're explaining the logic of their actions because they know the audience won't buy it unless they do. The "their fighters will retreat" thing bothers me a lot. As does "their ships are smaller and faster. They can't outrun us but they can keep us at a distance where our cannons can't bypass their shields." (probably slightly different) That's not how faster works. If they're faster they can eventually run away from you.

[@favioferreira8921]

I think the reason Holdo didn't position her ship to shield the transports was because she was meant to draw fire away from the cloaked transports. If she were in between them and the First Order they might have been hit and given them away. Once they were discovered, however, she changed plans.

[@devinfaux6987]

Personally, I feel like the writing of the Rebel fleet side of things was poor from the get-go. I don't think they should have used the "endless chase" as a plot at all, and done something entirely different once the Resistance fled at the start of the film.

[@kevinwaycaster]

Well thank the force that they were all using two dimensional tactics!! Lest no resistance fighters would have lived

[@Marveryn]

am still trying to figure out how those bombers use were better than the B Wings or Y Wings. they were slow as F

[@SpiraSpiraSpira]

If this was a valid tactic why didn’t they use it every single time? Change an X-wing into a guided missile, use a droid or computers to pilot it = dead star destroyer. That’s a good trade!

[@medraen]

Well maybe if she jumped the ship to hyperspace after the shuttles were in Safe distance luring first order to follow while rest od the rebellion stayed safe on the salty planet...

[@jlsstirbis9339]

And why didn't the raddus have turrents????

[@pendraco2000]

it doesn't have turrents. it has Turrets.

[@patrickcomley3264]

Some of the decisions in the movie that didn't make sense to you actually made sense when you realize a couple of facts. 1 when you realize that the first order commanders were Ground Pounders and not space Commanders it makes sense the lack of fighter use. Also the bombers and pose attack made sense after that. Ground pounding commanders only use fighters to soften up targets. They would have targeted the base first and not worried about fighter cover. Snoke was not a military Commander. He would not allow them to strip and its Star Destroyers to overtake the resistance. And the lack of Fire cover when there's distance dropped out hyperspace it was from lack of fuel. You all keep forgetting that. And I think it I know why it took 20 minutes for Holdo to act. It takes time to rig a ship to ram. He also probably took some time for her to bring everything and to Ram it. So you look at things from a military point of view you realize just how stupid they were.

[@gibster9624]

Not to mention killing herself to destroy the dreadnaught was actually kind of a stupid move. You know how long it would take for that big ship to turn around and pursue them? She could have passed through all of them and they'd try to track her down and actually be a worth while distraction so that the rebellion could slip away.

[@Prrreciousss]

She didn't jump until after the escaping shuttles had been spotted and started getting fired on, she was just being a distraction, but not a very good one

[@gibster9624]

@@Prrreciousss I'm saying from the beginning. They wouldn't have even looked for the escaping shuttle had she done that from the start. Tactically they went with what was convenient to the story and it still bothers the sht out of me.

[@OmegaF77]

What's more hilarious is that Poe got "demoted" from Commander to Captain. Bitch, how the hell are you an Admiral? Captain is a higher rank than Commander in the real Navy (US).

[@MarioMario-vn3fx]

I like it Daniel. and I agree there's good and bad with the last jedi both as a film and tactical wise.

[@rickmyers7627]

The Last Jedi was one of the most incoherent movies I've seen. Think about this... the First Order fleet wasn't low on fuel, so why didn't some of their ships just hyper-space out to somewhere, and the hyperspace back to the original fleet, but now in front of the Rebels? Hasn't anyone in the First Order ever played Eve Online? That's how you trap a fleet! Some FC they had... smh...

[@MidnightVisions]

No change to your format can fix the Last Jedi.

[@kaitanglin]

She sit there for an hour doing nothing because otherwise Rian Johnson would need to find another way to kill off 80% of the redshirts so the remaining resistance can all fit inside mellinian falcon.

[@davemarx7856]

This was just Rian Johnson being purposefully infuriating. I have this feeling that Leia was supposed to sacrifice herself but Rian likes to introduce characters and immediately delete them. If Holdo comes back I may consider never watching anything by Abrams or Rian ever again.