Will TREK survive TOTAL CHAOS in the global BICYCLE MARKETS? If they listen to me, you betcha hey!

[@DangerAmbrose]

If the bike manufacturers want to survive then they need to invest in bicycle infrastructure in cities. A wise sales man once said, "Never sell a product, generate demand."

[@77gmcnut]

The Netherlands is the only country I see that's made riding a bicycle a viable choice of transportation. The USA has a few cities that have made token efforts. The problem is bicycle riders don't contribute for the infrastructure the way auto drivers contribute through fuel taxes, tolls and other means of getting the infrastructure users to foot the bill.

[@trepidati0n533]

This is 100% the problem and the solution.

[@stevemcgowen]

Take a look at bicycle thefts in Amsterdam. Unless you ride a junker, it will get stolen if you park it outside. @@77gmcnut

[@zackharlow6839]

@@77gmcnut the reason all those taxes are needed is because automobiles require more infrastructure and destroy said infrastructure at a higher rate. gas taxes foots a small part of that bill...your federal income tax is what pays the highest percentage of "bills" for the road.

[@badinternetporn4704]

​@@77gmcnutI want to note very earnestly that people who live in sparse housing, e.g. suburbs, are a net drain on infrastructure. They will never generate enough tax revenue in the current schemes to offset the cost of maintaining their road infrastructure. The only way to even come close in many areas would require taxing single family homes at five to ten times the sqft rate of dense housing. Philosophy Tube has partnered with Not Just Bikes and a few others to produce a series of videos on the problems of cities and the first one is definitely worth it and I'm looking forward to the remaining two planned.

[@rondvivre3636]

Golf said "I'm expensive, Cycling responded "Hold my CamelBak".

[@sbook001]

I am a novice & dropped about 3 grand last year. It is cheaper to rebuild vintage bikes than vintage cars though. So there's that.

[@andretokayuk8100]

@@sbook001 less is more.. they say a fool and his money are easily parted, same holds for bikes.. if you live in any kind of big sh!tty in the US, you're way better off with an old beater 18 speed, just because most parts aren't compatible with modern bikes and you can cheap out on your lock..)/* 3K?!? Yikes! I've never dropped that much on a motor vehicle..)/*

[@sbook001]

@@andretokayuk8100 I overdid it a little, I also bought a new carrier (and hitch) for the car, new bike for the wife, and a few upgrades and accessories. I'll probably keep it well under a grand this year. I did already buy a used Giant Anyroad though last month... it isn't going to need much in the way of parts accessories or updates. The biggest Bike thing was a 1x12 Sram NX upgrade on my old 3x9 Trek hybrid. I Didn't need it, but picked the groupset up on sale & enjoyed tinkering with it.

[@whazzat8015]

​@rollinrat4850 Not an uncommon story. I got a Scwinn Suburban and an mid '80 tri bike that way and love them

[@whazzat8015]

@rollinrat4850 Good story.

[@rlm4471]

Maybe I'm in the minority here, but I love cycling in all forms. I love racing on carbon fiber spaceships, commuting, cruising, and touring on classic steel bikes, and so on. I love it all. I think the key is make sure that racing and race culture doesn't dominate the bike industry.

[@kyqx]

12 minutes of solid, interesting content. That's rare on KZbin. Thank you.

[@bikenraider99]

If KZbin offers a "Best Monologue for Real S**t" category; you won it hands down. Well said.

[@davidhakes5141]

Right-size the bicycle merchandise prices, while you're at it, Trek.

[@Colorcrayons]

No kidding. I recall spending over $700 in 1988 for a trek. That was over 35 years ago. I loved the bike, but at the age of 15, i sure did save a long time to buy that being a busboy at a chinese restaurant. I can only imagine what they charge nowadays on the low end.

[@HegelsBikeMechanic]

I found a new-old stock 2019 Domane SL6 with rim brakes online back in Sept. I took a long time to find the exact bike I wanted (no discs) and it paid off. Especially considering it was only $1300 (The new version is $4700). Full Ultegra, nice wheels, rim brakes. The perfect ride to replace my 2006 2200.

[@Colorcrayons]

@@GNMi79I am shocked. With inflation I would have guessed twice that minimum. $700 is still not pocket change, but walmart bikes sell for over half that now. But I imagine your guess about them being constructed of fine Chineseium is prolly true.

[@andretokayuk8100]

I stopped by the Trek store in Porkland Whoregone twice.. once to see what they did to the bike gallery.. the second because I had to have a light and a lock.. yeah.. never went back after that rip-off.. 80 bucks for 2 cubes that probably cost a buck to make.. I'll stick to snagging old Treks off craigslist..)/* They usually have a smattering of my favorite flavor of components X)/*

[@Silidons91]

@@GNMi79 That's not a road bike though. That's a fitness bike.

[@jacobatherton8339]

Great recap of history. I volunteer at a local bike co-op that builds up practical bikes, mostly out of donated '80s-'00s MTBs and hybrids, go figure. I went into another local bike shop yesterday, and I immediately felt like I didn't belong in there at all. I felt like both my bike and my clothes we're too old and out of place compared to the new gravel bikes and appropriately dressed customers. I commute 8 miles to work everyday, I own ten bikes- how is it possible that I of all people feel alienated by a bike shop?? I can't even imagine how a customer who doesn't know anything about bikes feels.

[@bkefrmr]

I went to Interbike the last two years of the show and walked around wondering who the hell even buys all that shit

[@LoneWanderer905]

I feel you. I have a relatively modern hardtail. 2015 aluminum frame, sram nx (most modern thing on it), Rochshox XC28 fork. I had an injury a few years ago and bought a 26" steel/cromoly random 90's bike, exactly like the one I was gifted when I was 14 (hand-me down). Added a 2 stroke engine on it, since I couldn't pedal or use my knees for more than 10 seconds. Had some of the best fun of my life. Came to know a few mechanics and became one in the proccess. It has 22mm suspension forks, 22mm seattubes, v-brakes, all that old stuff, also had some of the best laughs while hanging out and talking to these people, hell, even lost my bias against mopeds (they're cheap fun). Nowadays that I'm back pedaling, I only take my bikes to the same people who used to take care of my motorized bike (although nowadays there are few things I won't do, like trueing a wheel). Can't stand to think that one of these carbon fiber enthusiasts would look at my old 90's heavy steel PoS and be like "I won't service it". And to be honest, I have gotten much more fair prices and better service.

[@rbf9701]

Gravel bikes would make a good commuter bicycle. They have drop bars allowing faster riding so you can ride faster and thus reduce the speed discrepancy between the riders and the cars approaching from behind. They can fit tires wider then 28mm and can still have room for fenders and they have mounts for fenders and rack(s). The only problem with gravel bikes is they are expensive compared to a basic $500 hybrid.

[@sbook001]

I will say my local shop is pretty user friendly to all levels. He has been in business for over 50 years has everything from an entry level hybrid to a pro racing grade carbon fiber road bike. He Wont sell you anything you dont need and gives honest friendly advice. Disclaimer: The owner is a relative, but I have heard the same thing from everyone I ever talked to that has dealt with him. Good people! We need more of that around.

[@johnfowler4820]

The Dutch make bicycles for people not cyclists. If you want to get from a to b comfortably on two wheels look at how they do it.

[@Kelekona_808]

I think the most powerful message was saved for the end where you offered a stand to laid off bike industry folks in your community. I know it's not much, but I'm sure it would mean the world to anyone who could use the opportunity.

[@bootchop88]

seriously?

[@coltlewin]

Yes. This is the way 🫡

[@silverghost8517]

I work part-time in a small shop that just happens to sell Trek and a few other brands. Comfort and sport hybrids are our bread and butter. I love the idea of an advertising campaign showing real people on practical bikes doing practical things.

[@sfdint]

Yup. Advertising and R&D is focused on riders who identify as competitive riders or ultra-fit mountain bikers. Leaves me, a 72 year old retiree, and so many other casual recreational cyclists out of the loop.

[@havefunandbikestuffOver40]

So true! I'm a retired local racer. And I approve this video message. I'm currently only bicycling for fun and groceries now. No more for competition. And I'm rediscovering all the bike types and models that I disregarded as a racer only guy.😊

[@heyimamaker]

I was a bike mechanic for about 10 years in the early 2000's and was talking to my brother in law about how wild all the parts are now. There's a ton of hub spacings, axle sizes, hanger mounts, bb specs, and I guess a few wheel sizes. People went mad with options, it almost made parts proprietary.

[@bkefrmr]

🎯

[@BenRelle]

100%.

[@ScotBreithaupt]

That's part of the evolution of technology, to get that extra couple percent of performance, you have to use you're own IP and against the norm.

[@ScotBreithaupt]

@rollinrat4850 I wasn't saying anything related to your reply. I was simply stating that with new technology comes better performance. Bikes, similar to cars and other transportation options always come with a wide variety of performance levels. The high end of these items aren't meant for the everyday person, they're meant for enthusiasts, professionals, and aspiring professionals. The benefit of these groups adopting the high end is that most manufacturers find a way to keep higher end tech moving down the value chain so that the everyday rider can get high performance tech and a lower price down the road. Bikes in particular are a good example. When bikes were mainly built of out alloys, pre carbon days, the high end models would be made of the latest and greatest and thanks to economy of scale, the mid level and lower end bikes would be able to adopt those alloys. My dad did this exact thing at SE Racing back in the day. 6061-T6 cost a fortune, but once scale was achieved, mid level models at SE included it. Not hating or against every day bikes, I'm all for them. Also not against under biking, for a person like myself it's more fun. I rock a $1500 gravel bike like it's a $10k cross country mountain bike. Keeps my skills sharp.

[@ScotBreithaupt]

@rollinrat4850 man, the major manufacturers needs you asap to fix the industry...

[@jm19592011]

I agree. Here in the UK we have a shop selling 2nd hand bikes and doing repairs/servicing. Their most popular sales are 'work bikes' - bikes you can ride to work and back, no frills, bells or whistles. Which usually means flat bars and wider tyres.

[@thomasullmann7447]

I thought bells are legally required in the UK?

[@FLUSHER822]

Just what i was going to say. I've thought for years that bells were dorky kids stuff for the old lady down the street. I bought my first one about six months ago. and oh, yeah a horn with a rubber bulb just so the bikes sound different.

[@jm19592011]

Witty dog. While bells, (if fitted) must be in working order, and a new bike is legally obliged to be sold with one, there is no legal requirement to have a bell on your bike in the UK.@@thomasullmann7447

[@jm19592011]

While bells are a legal requirement to sell a new bike, they are not for second hand bikes.@@FLUSHER822

[@anguslaing9907]

They should have bells tho....

[@JamesCrandallPainting]

I used to like going into bike shops. Now it’s about as much fun as visiting a car dealership. $50 to service a bottom bracket? $100 to mount a tubular tire? They just want to sell you new bikes. Signed, grumpy Old Man

[@claybowler751]

I was at the Beverly Twilight Criterium in the beautiful neighborhood of Beverly on Chicago's south side. My buddy Tom introduced me to one of the pro mechanics. I listened to him and Tom talk, as Trek had just sent him to China to see the bicycle manufacturing process which they were now outsourcing. He was amazed at how efficient and cost-effective it was to produce their carbon frames in those factories. There was very little effort to building a carbon frame as compared to other more traditional frame materials. I think back to that conversation and seeing how in about 26 years since I bought a Trek postal frame (for what really wasn't all that expensive) to what these frames and bicycles costs now, and I just shake my head. They have tricked us into a mass production scheme where carbon frames are easily produced in Chinese factories into believing we are buying something very special. It's bad enough that you are paying over $3000 now for a 105 equipped low-level carbon bike, $5000 to $6000 for Ultegra if not more, and over $12,000 for the top bikes--all built in just a couple factories around the world anymore.

[@bamicus9342]

Very true, really ridiculous what Trek and all have done. Look at Colnago, it’s a shame really. What Trek did to LeMond was something I’ll never forget. LBS are part to blame as well.

[@marklarsen8]

Dude! This is the best episode you’ve done and it is the straight poop that the industry needs to hear. Like you, I am a mechanic first, rider second and gave up on the the “industry” because it felt like an abusive relationship. I hope this blip in the market is what will get bike manufacturers back into a better relationship with their customers and retailers.

[@lvtiguy226]

You hit this one right on the head Andy. All of the bikes in my stable are close to or over 20 years old, except the ebike (not a Trek) that I bought a few years ago to keep me riding more despite my asthma. I keep all of them well tuned (thanks to my LBS) and ready to ride. I get even more enjoyment from them now more than ever, especially my Ti bikes. The corporate bicycle industry lost my interest long ago. Thanks for being here to support the everyday bicycle enthusiasts! 🚴🚴🚴🙏❤️😎

[@SvenLokkenson]

Cool thoughts, man. Greg LeMond was the reason I fell in love with cycling when I was in middle school, and to this day there are times when I still pretend I am him on Alp d'Huez, but mostly I just love the feeling of being on two wheels on the kind of bikes that allow me to ride where I want to go.

[@donhuber9131]

Fascinating to me that road racer-ism became fashionable right as road cycling in the US became more dangerous than ever!

[@libertyrebel91]

Love your content. Down to earth, straight forward kind of guy. We need more shops around like yours.

[@OUTDOORS55]

If honda can sell a 1100cc, fuel injected, twin cylinder, water cooled, ABS equipped, MOTORCYCLE for $14k, how much should bicycles cost? NOT FOURTEEN THOUSAND DOLLARS!! People need to wake up and stop buying these overpriced pieces of junk. Sorry not sorry, they did this to themselves.

[@bkefrmr]

They are definitely not pieces of junk. But they are ridiculous consumer products in almost all instances.

[@endofthelongestline1]

I've got 25 years as a mechanic, certified in all the mainstream brands "training", maintained a 100% S-tech completion rate since the program started, sram school, BBI, managed a dozen service depts. ,Several stores, and I've had enough, I walked away this year, I'm over it.

[@chasemanley848]

Managed a couple service depts, did BBI, and have been wrenching and service writing for 12 years, also walked away. Today actually, and from a Trek-owned store. SO over the corporate cycling world. Time to switch careers and keep cycling as a hobby and help friends out with their mechanicals. I'm into what Soma, Surly, Microshift and Merry Sales are doing. Keep the old tech running and make modern versions of things that use sensible standards for the vast majority of consumers who just want to enjoy cycling in any capacity they see fit. All my bikes are either steel or aluminum, none of the cables go through the bearings and no components are controlled by batteries, motors or bluetooth.

[@oreocarlton3343]

​@@ob1856not everything new is progress

[@logantri]

I'm sure you are happy where you are at, but I was in a similar situation. I went out on my own with mobile and LOVE it. I am much happier, make much more, and don't deal with cranky customers anymore. It's a great way to change my situation while also utilizing my talents.

[@SurpriseMeJT]

@@ob1856 To make another false analogy, "Go tune your carburated injection system vehicle and let me drive my computer controlled fuel injection system with variable valve technical marvel". Let's not stop at the bike. Let's sell performance enhacing drugs at the bike shop. Why rely on antiquated food technology to go faster?

[@marcdaniels9079]

@@ob1856 You know he wasn’t talking about caffeine right ? Also creating not a good idea for cyclists except trackies. Retains water in muscle cells so increases body weight

[@GeorgeEvans-lk1wc]

I will leave this positive. The 1980s, a fantastic time to be to be a part of the cycling world.

[@thephoenixcycle8854]

In Nebraska, where l live the average population hates and loathes people who use bikes as actual transportation. Omaha is absolutely designed to make commuting as difficult and dangerous for riders as possible. Seriously. A whole new mindset for a huge swaths of Americans is needed for your vision to become reality.

[@axt_messer_survival]

da braucht es als ersten rahmen die ein fahrergewicht von über 150 kg locker standhalten🤣

[@mountainhobo]

@@axt_messer_survival Did you even understand what @thephoenixcycle8854 wrote, or did you just wait to inject your unrelated brainfart somewhere?

[@joejones2700]

I agree some areas I have lived paved road shoulders don't exist and the traffic hate having bicycle riders out there slowing them from getting to work or town. It was a challenge to commute in Phoenix. Traffic yelled obscenities and occasionally threw bottles or cans at me commuting to the air base. In more friendly areas I'll have lived the community gets infrastructure improved with lanes connecting parks and working to get areas safe for bikes to ride. If this gets done more people will ride bikes.

[@Christian_Call]

Bud, I really like your content. The two wheel world needs more folks like you.....organic and funny.... true to the cause! Keep up the good work BikeFarmer!

[@enriquevillasenor9386]

Well said. It had to happen sooner or later. When Trek bought out the last remaining, independent bike shop in my community similar to yours, everyone flocked to the grand opening for a chance to spin the wheel and walk away with a Trek trinket. $15K for a new bike? Who were they kidding?

[@biggaywizard]

I worked for Trek for several years, I was in the first wave of layoffs. Of the 150 employees in my community shops that Trek absorbed, there's literally only three people left. It's not just the bikes, it's their whole corporate culture that's rancid.

[@emilycs8823]

The kind of bike or rather new frame set I purchased recently is a steel road bike frame, with external cable routing the manufacture would describe as beyond road. Just a fun bike to go on adventures with. I never even considered anything the Trek dealer, or Specialized dealer had to offer. Bring back external cable routing, mechanical shifting, steel, and titanium. Bring back retro designs, like Trek Multi Track, Specialized Crossroads, but with disc brakes. I want retro 80's or 90's flamboyant paint schemes. I want to see rim brakes improved and brought back on basic bikes, since bedding in and maintaining disc brakes are too much for most causal riders to understand, let alone hydraulics lol.

[@LD-bv1pm]

I parked my (older) top of the line road bike at a coffee shop and a guy pulled up on a Yamaha MT-07. It dawned on me that the replacement price of my bike was about 150% that of the motorcycle. Hard to reconcile that. I certainly won't be buying a new bike any time in the near future.

[@literocola970]

I went into the Trek dealership looking to upgrade my Giant Anthem. They told me the cost of the new Remedy and Slash and I literally couldnt bring myself to pay that much. I went over to my motorcycle dealership and bought a brand new KLX300 DS, I found a used Beta Techno 250 trials for 800 as a bike to learn trials. I bought boots, a decent helmet, the whole kit. 1 new moto, 1 used moto, all the gear and still spent less than the Trek. After 20 years in the cycling industry I felt pushed out. Buying the moto's has been the best decision. Smiles for miles. Smiles for miles.

[@dirkjordy9point714]

I have friends in the bike industry here in the UK. They are adamant this is a blip in the market and there is a need to create new genres to boost it. And..........they always justify the cost of bicycles compared to motorcycles, saying there development and manufacturing are significantly higher. I will never believe that for one moment.

[@PaulsWanderings]

GCN put out a video or two about this situation. I am glad to hear from Trek directly.

[@cgatlin65]

First off, I love your channel, and others like it. I can't stand the big corporate channels, just like I can't stand the local bike shops in my area. I'm 59 years old, and I've never paid a bike mechanic either... That being said, I'll admit to owning (and building) a bikepacking bike, a gravel bike (two, counting my wife's bike), and a couple of xc bikes. But here's the thing- I love riding all of them. I've built them all exactly to my own preferences; not what someone else deems I need. Amen brother, keep on servicing your community with what the people actually want, and may you enjoy all the success you deserve in the future!

[@whazzat8015]

Next time I get the urge for another bike, I have to call my sponsor. Have one of almost everything. (bike Friday SatRday, nuff said) Most I have, just to have, and ride the p@@s out of my favorite, which changes. Brommie in the trunk just in case. Just ride it. Yippee

[@matphilips3288]

I like practical bikes: steel frame, step through, 7-speed hub gears, V-brakes, mudguards, luggage rack with basket, frame lock, battery light, suspension seat post and Dutch handlebars. I can repair everything myself... 😊

[@scottnuelken6229]

All fantastic points. I run a (mostly) second-hand shop, and while the big shops are struggling, I'm still moving everything I have- because I build the bikes up to be great commuters for an any budget.

[@miket.220]

What a concept, building bikes regular people can and want to use at a price they can afford. Crazy! 😅

[@johnb6084]

I don't like seeing anybody lose their jobs. The prices are out of control! I seen a father in our local shop spend 10k on new family bikes. The bike better wipe my ass for that kind of money. We're in our 60's and leisurely ride cheap old 3 speed bikes that prob cost me less to restore than the tires on those bikes.

[@daniellarson3068]

"Practical bikes for practical people" - I kind of like that idea. "Form follows function" - Frank Lloyd Wright Yeh - A bicycle is a human powered tool to go from point A to point B. Maybe some of us don't need fancier bikes but roads friendlier to bikes. Thank you Bike Farmer for your very good rant.

[@paulfarnbach7781]

Hello, thanks for the video. I rode everywhere on my yellow Kabookie 10 speed when I was young…it was great. No helmet, no bubble wrap just my scabbed up chins and my converse sneakers. I picked up bike frames and parts at the local dumps metal scrap and built Frankenstein-bikes. Fast forward 40 years, I went to a bike shop with 1500 plus dollar bikes and was overwhelmed. Helmets, bags, skin tight cloths etc and bikes of all kinds. I left after no one would talk to me and found what looked like a decent bike in need of some care on marketplace. Trek fix 7.6 2009. I watched a bunch of your tune up videos, bought some dawn and behold and got after it. Some trial and error and I have it pretty well tuned up now. Riding about 3 times a week for 10 to 15 miles. I love it, glad to be back in it and enjoy your chats. Btw…those in fancy helmets and Lycra fuss about my baseball hat and look down on me enjoying my bike. Anyway. Thank you and keep it up please.

[@brittweir8844]

I heard all the rumors. Thank you for telling the story. I appreciate your time❤ I understand and resonate with your passion .I’m just a dude likewise, who loves bikes, loves, riding, and working on bikes. simple practical bikes..❤

[@yuri_on_youtube]

I am glad you called this out, especially the several categories for bikes that exist. I started mountain biking in the early 90s when the stock hardtail was the everything bike from trials to dirt jumps. Now, there's "trail", "down country', and people talk about "geo(metry)" all the time just regurgitating what they read on PinkBike but the reality is, most people wouldn't feel the half degree difference in a headtube. I compete with a fancy XC bike or two but I harken back to the days of simplicity and not dozens of different "standards" for BBs and hubs, etc. I also agree on your NICA comment too.

[@wiggettyg2732]

Well said! I am a bike mechanic for Trek and I would much rather a simple Marlin walk through the door for a service than an awful Speed Concept! Marlin customers are much better mannered and don’t expect the world just because they bought a way overpriced bike!

[@icabod9345]

You are so correct on this. The marketing has been missing the bullseye for years. Instead of making it an elite "sport" with ridiculously priced bicycles and accessories, they need to emphasize their products as just plain fun (for people of all ages) and a means of transportation. I ride a very "non-elite" reasonably priced bicycle for fun and mild exercise. I could care less what brand of bicycle won the Tour De France any given year.

[@davidhakes5141]

As a bicycle commuter, practical bikes are good. Real world designed rack systems, and trailers, would be great, too.

[@FLUSHER822]

Well said, Andy. The spandex tuxedos on old fat guys never did work. And yes, we got together for just the reasons you stated. I love the old stuff. Steel bikes, A gear set up that gets me where I need to go, and a pair of cargo shorts and hiking shoes to ride. I own two jerseys, one due to sentimental value, and the other because it is the brightest color of lime green I could find. I've been riding since I was 12 and from the beginning it was about transportation first, even though I was the only kid on the block who got Velo News. Here we are, 60 years later and my passion for the bikes is just as strong. It's about freedom for kids and a disconnect for adults. I love giving away bikes to kids who wouldn't otherwise have one. A bike is like a get out of jail free card.

[@FLUSHER822]

BTW, as much fun as your other videos are, this might be the best and most important,

[@HegelsBikeMechanic]

​​@@FLUSHER822 I don't know. That GT with Cues was pretty good.

[@whazzat8015]

No MAMIL here, I ride in cowboyboots and jeans. 72yo. Love taking curbed bikes fixing them ad passing them on. Often stolen afterwards, so it's like giving a bike to 5 kids. Spandex tuxedo ! love it . I just have a car to go to Costco

[@ScottCarlson-cz7wj]

I grew up as a one bike man; one bike for road, gravel, and woods trails. As an off school, part time pizza cook in 1978, I bought my first bike for $170 ($800+ today). Last year, at 60 years old, I bought a do it all bike for $1500 -moon rocket money!! I couldn't IMAGINE paying more for a bike. Thanks for the great video.

[@Jan-bf2ht]

I heard an interview with a bike manufacturer (small company in Germany) and the guy was talking about bikes in the "cheap category, like 1500-2000 Euro" … I was stunned, that a bike is considered cheap at 2000 Euro, that's a looot of money, at least for me (being still in my 30s) 🙈

[@donpalmera]

@@Jan-bf2ht For a bike that has basic gearing and no suspension 2000 euro does sound insane. Which is why expensive road bikes are insane. No one really needs to shave 1g of weight off of a crank arm or something. But for a full suspension MTB there is a lot more going on and parts that don't have crappy seals that'll let water in (actual useful functionality) aren't cheap.

[@whazzat8015]

@@donpalmera Hobbyists pay for their hobby. If you need it and use it , buy it. Most folks are well served with modest offerings that are well made and fit well. Like clothes. Fits the budget ,too. A bit of race tech helps my 72yo legs, but 20yo tech on a 25 yo bike. Most trendy fashion fits very few of those who buy it, as well as 150yo designs.

[@ducksintheskymodel1216]

I agree with you, the shops are intimidating for the average person. Wisconsin has awesome bike trails for the person that just wants to ride a bike. I've been looking at new bikes and sticker shock is an understatement.

[@bikesandbeyond618]

Excellent conversation. When my local bike shop (Trek dealer) blew up and started carrying 4 or 5 different component levels of the same models and so many models you'd need a sundial and a slide rule to make sense of them, it made it nearly impossible to make a simple selection. Result for me - I found Surly.

[@shingweima]

Really well put, I couldn't agree more. I was in that trap of what the cycling industry marketed itself, I had all the gear and no idea, and I realised that I just didn't enjoy being a "cyclist". So I sold all my bike equipment and just walked everywhere for the past year. I've only recently picked up a cheap 90s (I think) mountain bike and though I won't say I've found a new love for cycling, I don't hate getting on the bike. I just get on and peddle from A to B and enjoy everything else in between.

[@glotube1028]

Wow 😮 you hit the nail on the head. Remember when the local schwinn shop was the go to for families. Way to go bike farmer! Kick ass!

[@mkmornz804]

Completely agree. You said what me and many others think about this marketing trend that began in the 90s and then with Armstrong in the early 2000s. Seems as if Armstrong's popularity changed the marketing of biking industry in general. The prices on mountain bikes also went way up as well. And to realize it was driven by deceit of not just Armstrong but by those in the industry that were aware of his deceit.

[@donhuber9131]

The Armstrong/ road cycling hype occured right as road cycling became more dangerous than ever. Instead of putting money into lobbying for bicycle infrastructure, the companies invested in racer culture. I'm also shocked that the bike companies have not built velodromes in cities large and small across the country.

[@rolandovera5935]

This right here. ❤ I am a weekend warrior racer but acknowledge this is all the real deal. I loved the equity message at the end because I was that kid that could barely afford the sport and knew peers who loved bikes but couldn’t afford what we were told was the only way to experience cycling. I hope this gets world wide views.

[@johnnyguzman3429]

Wow, you read my mind about the Lance Era of cycling. I wrote a blog last night with some of the exact points you mentioned.

[@philipcaldwell3187]

Hits the nail on the head dead center on the head (to the atomic scale). I was in a small college town independent bike store last week and the lowest price bike was $4,300 USD. They all looked too frail to ride but the biggest surprise was that all the frames had 4th tier (maybe lower) components. Glad I have collected tools over the years and learned how to build the bike I want fit to purpose for my needs because no ready to ride bicycle company has a clue my market exist.

[@lawrencehallett5669]

Durianrider on KZbin summed this up in his latest video, for sure he's an ex pro Aussie, and a complete nutter, but he does have a valid point or 2!!

[@danfhensley]

been waiting on the cull, and I guess we are at the beginning of it. regular bikes for regular people is exactly right, and is exactly what will keep shops in business. couple that with quality service and a welcoming and positive vibe, and you will make it through. that's what we are doing... and it is working.

[@Paul-o2p]

Worked for 18 years in the industry from the late 70's to the mid 90's. Mechanic, sales, service manager, inside sales on the wholesale end and burned out. Now retired and living in Portland Or and work partime at a specialty recumbent trike shop and loving it again. Trek came into town and bought the local chain that really supported the community and filled those stores full of corporate only stock. What was local based unique idea stores became cookie cutter bland upper end roadie crap. Does't surprise me at all.

[@adambarlev8992]

I agree with a lot of what you said, but I also know that people are inspired and influenced by the thrill of sports. Imagine if instead of a highschool football team, there was an XC MTB squad. It would make biking cool, people would want to look like cyclists. Just my 2 cents.

[@MediumHalf]

Thanks for your perspective on the industry! I saw the news and was not surprised, but I think you made some good points, particularly the one about the splinterization of bikes as a product to the point of absurdity.

[@Brockthedog315]

Your ending was soooooooo spot on. A total untapped market is out there and they ignore us. Normal bike riding is the vast majority. Not even close. Some companies do market research to figure this out. lol.

[@bkefrmr]

I mean, I can’t imagine they haven’t done the market research. We have to be wrong. There’s probably not enough money in it to make sense. I have ZERO marketing experience. It just FEELS like it right there for the taking. Regardless, “right sizing” makes a ton of sense to me, and many others as well!

[@robertlewis3712]

Wow, not only did you give us a history lesson, you provided corporate advise that I believe was spot on. When you finished up with the offer of employment I felt you nailed this video.

[@stephenbarry2062]

If Trek Designs and builds more bikes like the Dual Sport/FX line that are simple, effective, versatile and relatively reasonably priced they will thrive IMO.

[@661110260]

And now you"re truing the BIG TREK wheel. 😉 I hope the TREK management looks at your youtube channel (big change they are) and maybe do something with that info to get them back on track. Sad to hear that these troubles will affect people in your area. I wish them who are, the best of luck,faith and patience.

[@Kumacattv]

Excellent post! The other reason the bike market is on its back is the cost. Everything is priced out of sight for the average consumer. Even a hardened roadie like myself, I just can’t bring myself to pay what they’re asking for new road bikes. Who’s got a spare $10k burning a hole in their pocket. It’s basic economics, if demand is down prices need to reflect this and come down. However they seem to be going in the opposite direction. Thanks again.

[@JohnPilling25]

I just love your perspective. You are 100% correct. I picked up a Trek hybrid bike 2 weeks back - completely refurbished it - looked great and sold it within a day - made a ++.. Over a year ago I picked up a full suspension Gary Fisher (Trek) really cheap - refurbished it - looked and worked great , took a year + to sell and lost my shirt ------- big time but the teenager who bought it with his pocket money was so happy. The hybrids have always gone quickly at +. There have been a few notable exceptions - got a matching pair of specialized road bikes out of a barn for a mere $10 each - refurbed them - lots of cleaning and lube but only minor new stuff like chains and cables and tyres. Wow they went for ++++++ really quickly and subsidised several 90's steel Trek mtb rebuilds. Keep up the down to earth approach and I wish you continued success 👍😀

[@billwilliams9527]

Now that what I call a logical, common sense bicycle video. Little did I know, kudo's for putting it out there.

[@clear_gray_sky539]

I went to buy my first real bike last weekend (a gravel bike) I went to track and the cheapest one was $2,000 with out pedals . I went to a local bike shop and got a cannondale topside for $1,100 and love it .

[@ashurany]

The topstone is a solid choice. I rode one for several years. Ended up selling it to get another hardtail mtb since I prefer flat bars on all dirt, but I have many regrets about selling it :)

[@dakac5]

Oh man you nailed it!! I’m a bike guy to the core and I can’t stand going into a bike shop much anymore. I have 6 bikes in my garage and I ride most of them. I try to use the shop to help support them. Times are definitely tough for them. They worried about the bike boom over Covid and they were correct to worry about how things are today. Great video!!!

[@dadainthip]

THANK YOU! I got back on a bike last year after a number of years. And the cost of entry now for a bike of relatively decent quality almost prevented that. I did find one that I am really happy with but it took a while to search.

[@TysRides]

Makes so much sense. I remember when my Dad was looking for a bike (he likes nice things) he was set on getting a Trek because Trek "is the best". I explained that, yea Trek is fine, but there are other brands out there that are good too. Even him, a construction worker, who could give a shit less about cycling, was under the Lance/Trek marketing spell of the late 90s/2000s and he didn't even realize it.

[@shaneppeplinski703]

I Will allways wish you the best for the truth ... I was a Lance fan...Canada loves you....keep it up...😅😅😅

[@kgourlay426]

Love it, right on! I'm sticking with my rim brake road bike and tri bikes that are still fast and I can work on them myself.

[@gaztuber]

Thank you sir…well said. I’m in Sydney Australia and this has to be heard down here.

[@Lawrence-r7s]

Amen brother. Well spoken. Totally agree.

[@mickhurley7305]

Great video, monologue. I bought 2 Treks yesterday.. what does that mean.

[@podiumphysio657]

Brilliant commentary. Stumbled across this vid and glad I watched until the end. Now subd. I'm a MAMIL, I train hard and love all things road cycling but the cost of bikes is getting way out of hand. It would be great to see all bikes return to a price point that normal people, whether they identify as " a cyclist" or simply "a bike rider" can afford and enjoy

[@aslyn845]

Excellent video.Thank you for your honest opinions. Love Trek bikes own 2 (Madone/Domaine) .Hope Trek stays in business.

[@lloydranola]

That was depressingly real. EBike brands seem to figure out that real people don’t care about or want to buy from the OG brands, and seem to be the only ones marketing to what bike culture should be. With love, Roadie Snob

[@philphillips5231]

I love to go to bike stores, I’m a cyclist! I have a $4500 carbon bike, I’m a cyclist! I have a gravel bike too, I’m a cyclist! I ride 8,000 miles a year, I’m a cyclist! Lemond was right, Lance was wrong, I’m a cyclist! Can’t we be friends? Can’t we be friends? you’re no cyclist! You don’t look good in lycra, you’re no cyclist! Your bike is hanging in your garage, you’re no cyclist! Your tires are deflated, you haven’t rode this year, you’re no cyclist! Ain’t we been friends? All these many years? Ain’t we been friends? I could go on forever, repeating the obvious, Ain’t we been friends? In heaven there are no bikes, no cars, no dogs, no cats, but surely there are cyclists! Who finally discovered we are friends.

[@marcdaniels9079]

Nice

[@Gangdump]

The pure and simple joy of bike riding is still alive! Just get out and ride, feel good, and don’t try to imitate athletes from an advertisement. It doesn’t matter who you are, going for a ride is good for the soul.

[@davidwildstallionjohnson4458]

Intelligent, weird thought out and spot on. "market to your audience ".

[@wertacus]

Great video. I feel like bike shops are terrifying, and you can't go in just to look at stuff like a department store. It feels more like a tailored suit store, like I should know everything about cycling just to step foot in the door.

[@EndoftheBlock7224]

I picked up riding as an adult back in 1999 and never stopped. I LOVE biking and have watched the industry balloon out of control. I agree 100% that the industry needs to make practical bikes for regular people but they won't do it until they've learned their lesson. My favorite bike is a 2000 Diamondback mountain bike that still rides amazingly for the way I like to ride almost daily.

[@nickwatson2217]

Preach! Youre right on the money here. Also at around 10.20 you forgot to mention Time Trial bikes…🤦‍♂️

[@bkefrmr]

THANK YOU FOR NOT CALLING THEM TRI BIKES

[@shaunhilliard6895]

I thought your comment about Trek & the state of industry was spot on! In 2018 I volunteerd for the Trek CX -They had a display set up for the latest and greatest bikes. In the corner of the display they had a steel gravel bike with a super cool design. It was a newer bike done by Trek and Bonntrager. A lot of people were really digging it. I told the Trek this is what people want! They looked at me like I was crazy and kept going on & about the Checkpoint was better I thought Trek has lost the plot and only wants to make bikes for elite level racers vs regular people. Trek still makes a great product but just not the bike for the people that they started with Cheers

[@bkefrmr]

I think I know who has that bike!

[@tomp538]

first time at the bike farmer; you have some interesting insights into the bike world. I haven't bought a new bike since 1996. Still ride my steel bike, several times a week, that was built in '88.

[@annapecora8019]

love it. wish i lived near you because your shop sounds like the type i've always wanted to work at.

[@CustomExcelVideo]

Wow. Love your opinion about the bike market. I currently have an 11 year old RIE basic comfort bike I paid $400 for then. I thought I wanted a new bike. The Trek sales guy showed me a perfect replacement for $1,600. Yeah couldn’t get out of there fast enough. I put a partial new drivetrain i n mine for about $70. I’m 66 I ride recreationally 1,600 bucks, really?

[@gerworks]

Here in Japan(I'm in Osaka, Kansai area), the bike culture is different than USA. Here we have the Mama-chari, for me the best designed bike for most people, everybody rides this kind of bike, kids, moms, elderly people, dogs, cats... Sports bikes sales going down but the mama-chari market still the same for years, with almost same design, parts and sizes.

[@isaiahwelch8066]

First, Andy, I completely agree with you about the number of the types of bikes out there. As a utilitarian person, I want one bike for everything I normally do. Thus, I have a main 29er that is mostly all aluminum with a suspension front fork. I use that bike to run errands, and more importantly, pull a garden trailer that is a direct-pull trailer, rather than a side-pull trailer. My 29 has a 3 x 7 system on it for a drivetrain. My other bike is a 26" Huffy mid-suspension bike I ended up converting to rigid forks in the front. It also has a 3 x 7 drivetrain, and the only thing it can't do is pull my wagon. That being said, both bikes are comfortable for me to ride. They each have low rolling resistance because of street tread on every tire. I also do all of my own maintainence and repairs. That being said, the biggest mistake I see most bike companies making is proprietary components. This drives up the cost of a bike across the board: MSRP, parts replacement, and servicing. Universal components are much better, because of interchangeability and parts replacement -- especially if you do bike-packing and something breaks. When you did that GT bike and put the Shimamo CUES components on that bike, my thought was, Shimano got that product line right, because everything is interchangeable. The cost becomes known, which, if the parts are reliable, makes for repeat customers. Which is why companies like Trek need to simplify. Simplify their products they sell, which in turn simplifies costs. Too often, bike companies try to act like car companies and sell a new model every year, when what needs to happen is, have a good desirable platform with several options, and make multi-use bikes that can be used for several purposes, rather than a 1-type/1-use kind of bike. Yeah, you might be able to charge higher prices, but your production costs are higher too. Anyways, them's my thoughts on this. Can't say I didn't see this coming, since car companies have been cutting back on both brands and number of models for roughly 15 years now. This was inevitable.

[@paul99501]

Great video. I'm a long-time biker but I feel completely alienated by modern high end bikes and bike shops these days. I recently moved and found a new 1-person local bike shop that's small, friendly and informal and sells affordable everyday bikes, and after watching your video I now understand why I chose him. I'm not comfortable in a modern high end bike shop that feels like an Audi dealership or even a fancy art gallery.

[@donaldlee6760]

As someone who works as a software engineer in Silicon Valley, a 10% layoff is considered modest in the tech industry. I assume it would hit much, much harder if these staff cuts are concentrated at Trek HQ which is located outside a major urban center.

[@bkefrmr]

Agreed. Also, I think it’s the tip of the iceberg.

[@tonydebusk1211]

I couldn't agree with you more. I bought a Trek Dual Sport 4 about six years ago and experienced the very feeling you described. When I purchased my bike I felt like I was bothersome to the staff. In my area (The Smokey Mountains of East Tennessee) mountain biking is the thing.

[@bkefrmr]

I’m the exact opposite in my shop.

[@Brother_Pugz]

Yup....I have loved bikes all my life, and I'm nearing 60. Have been through all the phases of cycling. Now just in it to enjoy a comfortable ride on an easy to maintain bike. Life has forced me to become a normal cyclist, and that's all my talent really allowed for anyway. LOL. Steel has replaced carbon fiber.. and muscle and joint pain cream has replaced chamois cream. Would like to see cycling become more fun and affordable for everyone.

[@lawrencehallett5669]

Cannondale made in USA, the greatest frames and this comes from a Limey !!! Brake like the wind!!

[@mattgies]

@@lawrencehallett5669 Been a long, long time since Cannondales were made in the USA. They're made in Taiwan now.

[@lawrencehallett5669]

@@mattgies still the best bikes, got a Chase, 2 x caad3, caad4 , caad5 MTB , and caad7 road bike oh and a ccad2 Nos that's never been built up and a pair of no's coda wheels for it. Personally I find they are far better than modern frames. Other bikes include top end Falcon, Dawes, Aende and Fat Chance.

[@bobstranzenbach4700]

I got a little trek Townie a few years ago and LOVE it. 🙂

[@markpeterson8978]

Wheel reinventing sounds like a untamed market to me. (Wink) Great show Bro. You are my rosetta stone. Cheers - M

[@hugobci]

You resumed my sentiment and feeling about all that marketing bullshit of bikes. More than 10 years now, people at marketing smashing "gravel bike" everywhere when is obvious that every reliable bike is a gravel-capable bike. So then, then sub categorised the thing! Unbelievable...

[@sonalmalhotra07]

Nice video. I own a 13 year trek 4300 MTB. Just bought a gravel bicycle. The gravel bicycle does ride faster and is only a tad smoother! So your point is seen. I mean my old trek never gets pampering it has outdated tech but rides beautifully. If I knew how to clean it up once like you do, I bet it would ride as smooth or smoother than the gravel bicycle. May be not as fast. Plus my hands are killing me from riding on the hoods- the gravel is my first drop bar bike. So yes you do not need too much tech. I probably by a sturdy bicycle and spend on accessories as I go along. Thanks. Subscribed

[@whichwayiszigzag]

I love all kinds of bikes, even the gucci ones. But my favourite is whichever one replaces a car for it's owner, even if that's only one day a week.

[@TL243]

Great video. Right language for where we are now and how LA hurt so many.

[@DansDSPProductions]

Excellent video. I'm a 70-year-old dipping my toe back into bicycles after 50 years on motorcycles. I bought a used Trek Verve 3 last week from a local shop and it was a good experience. But leading up to that was baffling: far too many categories and subcategories of bikes for the market. Gravel? Road? Hybrid? Mountain bike? It got confusing and frankly ridiculous. I'm all for offering the customer what they want but regular people don't need 38 choices. Give us a good bike at a good price, keep it simple and all will be resolved.

[@daveclark8788]

Lemond for the win! As someone who spent near forty years selling wood windows from Wisconsin and Minnesota, I know what this will do to your area, and that's a shame. I also know there was a terrific Trek dealer near us in SoCal twenty years ago and that Trek opened a superstore a mile away from them-they're now a great...Specialized dealer! I hope they're okay. Thanks for the post, Bike Farmer, let's hope for, and encourage, the best outcome.

[@jimhamilton8997]

Holy s$!t this is spot on, thanks for making this video. Bought a 2019 trek Edmonda here in Charlotte; it’s not light, it’s just CHEAP!! My chain ring is literally falling apart; I had 7 flat tires in the first 6 WEEKS! I waited in line for service while I watched people get irate with mechanics who COULD NOT FIX THEIR CRAPPY NEW TREK BIKES because they were designed and built so poorly. And now I can buy a car for less than a bicycle. Trek is the new Schwinn 😂‼️

[@bkefrmr]

They’re not cheap or built poorly but they have become very hard to service. It’s just so disappointing for everyone.

[@dudeonbike800]

Great video. Thank you. I've said it before and I'll say it again, you're an amazing speaker. Your videos alone are a very strong argument in favor of everyone getting an excellent liberal arts education. Kudos to you! Cannot agree with your criticism of NICA though. Maybe the organization itself, but the sport of middle & high school mountain biking needs to be supported and expanded. Doing so will expose kids to a WHOLE NEW school sport that didn't exist until about 20 years ago (10 really). Kids playing sports is something we need to support. And yes, it's over the top with the elite coaching and pursuit of college scholarships, but it's still important. And if anyone's gonna embrace the XC mountain biking lifestyle, it's teens filled with energy & strength. It's THESE kids who then mature into bicycle-riding adults. They become voters who ask, "Gee, why don't we have better cycling transportation infrastructure?" and then demand it from their legislators. It's THESE kids who will be FAR MORE OPEN to using the bicycle as transportation. It's THESE kids who will also ask, "Gee, why don't we have WAY MORE single track trails on our public lands?" They'll then get them built. And it's THESE kids who will become FAR BETTER drivers as a result of riding bicycles competitively. I've waxed on and on about the benefits of cycling as a primer for driving. Today's driver has NO CLUE about how their brakes work, or dynamic vs. static friction, how to corner, suspension function, shifting or much else. Today's cars are very safe, but the dumb down drivers. Cyclists must become intimately aware of all of these things and more. So when an experienced rider gets behind the wheel, s/he is already far more proficient and knowledgeable about vehicle dynamics. Huge plus. Then there are the societal health benefits of cycling. Kids who race in youth keep riding as adults and they're healthier for it. Great for the knees, too. I cycled to soccer practice and never experienced a knee injury after 10 years of play. 58 now and still going strong. We can embrace youth racing AND everyday cycling at the same time.

[@andrewmackie5110]

"I don't need anything fancy, like a Trek". That's almost exactly what I said when I was bike-shopping last year. I might have also discounted Specialized as well.

[@jackcarter233]

Steel rigid single speeds are the best. Simple, affordable, and tons of fun. Rebellion!

[@doomedtolinger3333]

Kinda likin’ your style- good info, funny and true. Keep spinning my man