Mommie Dearest and the Legacies of Faye Dunaway and Joan Crawford (ft. Lypsinka)

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and here: www.lypsinka.com/
Video on Faye Dunaway: • Faye Dunaway's Dangero...
Video on Joan Crawford: • Joan Crawford Wins Bes...
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[@katietaylor8314]

I'm seeing a lot of comments here from people saying "actually my mum was exactly like that", and you know what? I think the problem here is that psychotic rages actually DO look pretty hilarious... if you're safely on the other side of a screen and not on the receiving end of one. Watching the movie as someone with no experience of such things, it just looks silly and embarrassing. To a child under the power of someone in such an out of control fit of violent anger, however... you'd be out of your mind with terror.

[@quicksilverlacey]

Completely agree with you.

[@nmg6248]

Excellent point. I just found out this movie is a camp classic and found that unbelievably disturbing. It also makes me wonder if Faye Dunaway suffered like that but just couldn’t expose her abuser. Or perhaps she had forgiven them, because she keeps talking about wanting to “humanize” Joan. And the movie became about Joan and not about the little girl’s perspective. It seems like such insult to injury that Faye should play a character so true, give audiences a glimpse into something horrific and disturbing, and be laughed at for being “over the top.” Honestly I don’t think anyone who hasn’t lived it could play the character that way. Like you said if you’re just watching and have never experienced it, her performance looks ridiculous and over-blown. It’s not, it is perfection. This movie scared the hell out of me as a young person watching it. I thought Faye Dunaway was amazing but I HATED the movie because it was too disturbing and traumatic for me. 😔 My brothers and sisters felt the same way.

[@dqverify6797]

Sometimes my mom would go on for so long that my brother and I (hiding in our respective closets or just out of her sight) actually would start (giggling silently, of course) at some of the things she was saying. We'd already been terrified and finished crying at that point, so emotionally we were just exhausted...nothing left to do but giggle.

[@kindaclassykindachola]

Mommy dearest or Daddy dearest? They used to say this one was so beautiful. How was I so blinded by it all? kzbin.info/www/bejne/fpq4q6Rsd5iDb7s

[@glorygloryholeallelujah]

Very good point.

[@yogagirl949]

The irony is that even though “Mommie Dearest” is over-the-top camp for most viewers, for me and my sister when we watched it on tv in the late 80s, it showed a disturbing resemblance to our own mother’s rage/behavior toward us. I wonder how many other children of abuse saw that kernel of truth in the movie.

[@johnsaxton5281]

I grew up with an abusive Stepfather who would do “night raids” similar to What Christina said Joan did. Terrifying for a child

[@msdisco85]

Same here, I also never thought it was that over-the-top or camp because there was a lot of accuracy in the rage. The tiny thing that just comes out of nowhere. And sure, sometimes you're also a bratty shit of a child, but sometimes the anger is way disproportionate to the offense.

[@express999snsd]

Having experienced somethings like the situations the movie depicted I was just petrified the whole movie, got really surprised when I read it was considered campy by some people

[@msdisco85]

@@express999snsd As far as this film goes, I think it comes down to the glamour and fantasy quote. Because the film distracts from the abuse with the Hollywood glamour, and it is clearly more invested in the Hollywood glamour. It never contrasts the two, it makes the abuse seem hyperreal, like it is also just a plotline of a Joan Crawford film and ultimately not real. And people don't want it to be real, because contemplating the idea that a glamourous person in films with sympathetic roles may also have been something other than a saint doesn't gel. No one aspires to be 'the mother of them all'

[@express999snsd]

@@msdisco85 that's good comentary and I like the way you used "hyperreal" to describe it. Now that I finished watching the video I can understand what you mean. It's a Hollywood movie star story that happens to have child abuse.

[@karanfield4229]

My father was loved by everyone who knew him and yet, behind the scenes he was a very cruel parent. No one knows the truth behind the scenes better than the children. Believe them.

[@omararturoramirez5262]

I totally understand you, I lived the same story. Some people should undergo psychological evaluations before considering having children.

[@berickson9813]

Could not relate more. My father is the textbook example of a Narcissist. Any one that ever met him for a moment or knew him on the surface adored him, cause he knows how to put on a face. They could never know who he really was to his daughters. My favorite was when people would tell me I was “ so lucky” to be his daughter

[@pimpharold1]

Yes and half of the children said she was the devil and the other half said she was lovely

[@ApplePie-ro9lc]

@@pimpharold1 Both can be true. It happens all the time. In every walk of life. Friendship, marriage, and parenthood. My mom would push my sister out of the way of a speeding car but she wouldn’t piss on me if I was on fire. Go figure!!!!

[@etcetraetcetra3173]

Hear hear.

[@GradKat]

I remember my mother running around inside the house screaming at the top of her lungs - one long, raucous, high-pitched note that seemed to go on forever. This was because I hadn’t sewn a button on my school uniform properly. If you tried to put an incident like that in a movie it would seem preposterous - people would be falling off their chairs laughing - but scenes like that were a regular occurrence during my childhood, and I found them utterly terrifying.

[@youtubename7819]

I knew a woman like this. She was ostracized at work for being racist and cruel. So everyday she would come home and as soon as the door was closed behind her she would just screeaaammmmm. Then she would lay into her children, screaming at them for every tiny thing. It was awful.

[@nightshadow73]

I would get in trouble for not folding the towels right in the cupboard and putting everything in properly. I think people don’t want to admit that it can be a tiny unreasonable thing that can be the final straw for a person that sends them over the edge. I remember one night when we had had a really wild day as a family and I can’t remember now what the problem was but for some reason mom had forgotten to feed us kids dinner. and at bedtime I reminded Mom’s that none of us had eaten and she just looked so defeated that day and I remember her falling to the floor at the foot of my bed and just sobbing. We still didn’t eat that night but that always reminds me that on that one day my mom was totally defeated in whatever had happened that day, and that happens to all of us

[@mmastoryline623]

I'm so sorry you went through this. My heart aches

[@magicmoonart]

My mum would shout at me for hours and shake me and get right in my face screaming just because I burnt food or put the glass on the wrong side of the kitchen or didn't switch off and unplug a socket. I actually ended up feeling so bad about myself I thought I couldn't do anything right and started loathing myself and lost my happy energetic fun enthusiastic self

[@magicmoonart]

​@@nightshadow73my mum would often say that whenever she went off on one (screamed and shouted at me) at me it was a straw that broke the camels back due to years of abuse.... By Me!!!!! She actually accused me of abuse several times and that when she goes crazy it's because I drove her to get so mad she acted crazy

[@amandahartsell9247]

i'd like to make it clear that I have never seen Mommie Dearest and yet I am prepared to spend nearly 51 minutes watching a video about it

[@grace2352]

the power of bkr >>

[@becauseimafan]

SAME!

[@aislingcormican6591]

Same!

[@pansepot1490]

I know it’s weird. I like watching reviews of films I have never seen. I like to think it’s because so I will know if it’s worth my time watching those movies. But actually it’s just that I love good analysis and commentary. 😁

[@boryanapavlova7036]

We're in the same boat here. Always planned to see, never did. It's a testimony to the quality of BKR's content, to have me sit for 50 minutes, watchin an essay about a movie i've never seen. Legend.

[@annnee6818]

I'm sorry but expecting an abuse victim to write an entertaining book contextualising said abuse must be one of the strangest requirements I've ever heard

[@AlexaDonne]

I actually recommend the book. I do agree it's a ridiculous notion... but Christina has since revised the book with new material and I read it last summer. It was one of my favorite books of 2020--it's a deeply human book and I hate that people have reduced it to a revenge tactic from a bitter, lying child (which many still do, including in these comments) slash associate it with the camp of the movie. She does contextualize her abuse in the 40th anniversary edition and indeed does give Crawford a lot of layers/depth/humanity while trying to understand her abuse. So ironically she did exactly what is being demanded of her, just with later editions (since I'm guessing the original edition lacked the hindsight she was able to add 40 years later).

[@annnee6818]

@@AlexaDonne I had no idea she wrote a new version, I'll check it out, thanks! It makes sense, abuse victims go through layers of grief, some accept and contextualise, some try to forget and not engage with the subject anymore, both are valid. It makes me very angry when people say "she must be lying, that's not the person I knew"... Like wooowww what a revelation, rapists don't rape every last woman they meet, abusers don't abuse every last person they meet. But people feel like "I admire Joan Crawford. If she's an abuser and I admire her, that makes me a shitty person. But I don't want to be a shitty person. So if I just claim her child is lying, I don't have to feel like a shitty person"... Thus making themselves into a shitty person. I also think people are just desperate to believe abuse is rare and Hollywood stars actually are perfect. Kinda pathetic. Thanks for the detailed response. Stay safe in these trying times.

[@JulioGomezNYC]

Not to mention SHE is the only one who claims the abuse and every few yrs, she remembers new stuff just in time for a revised book. SMH

[@ieatgremlins]

If you can’t write then don’t write a book. There are other ways to deal and heal from trauma.

[@MrStGeorgeIllawarra]

@@AlexaDonne Too little, too late from Christina.

[@glorygloryholeallelujah]

*”To know why the hammer is swung, does not remove the pain of it’s impact.”* That dude perfectly summarized what it’s like for an abused child to learn “why” they’re being abused.

[@janine7384]

Thank you, I was struggling through this video because it seems to be doing (and critiquing Mommie Dearest for not doing) what movies like Dahmer are criticized for- humanizing a monster. Crawford wasn't a serial killer (obviously) but I think there's something really powerful about NOT humanizing the monster, not couching their actions in flashbacks and soliloquies.

[@glorygloryholeallelujah]

@@janine7384 I completely understand how you feel about it! My opinion on the matter is still fairly undecided (I think for me, it depends on the individual person/topic). 🤔 I agree that sometimes a person is simply a massive POS and you don’t need to try “explaining” WHY they’re a massive POS...they just are. I usually feel that way about “small scale” monsters-(someone like Amber heard, for example). And by “small scale” I don’t mean that it’s “not important” and isn’t horribly destructive to those experiencing the nightmare! I simply mean the situations where the abusive madness is typically confined to just one family/household. But with a large scale POS horror (like a hitler level monster) I think it’s really important to “humanize” and show them as normal people. Not to create sympathy for the monsters-but because I think it’s really important for people to remember that monsters don’t just “pop out” of the ether one day and start causing suffering in the world. A monster can come from anywhere, at any time. They were ALL just regular babies like us, little kids like us, they had hopes, dreams, loves, sadness, disappointment, favorite foods, beloved pets(etc.) like us…but somewhere along the nature/nurture line, something went terribly wrong with them. So, I feel like knowing the details involved in creating THAT particular type of monster-might possibly help us all be more aware of how we treat others, or be more aware of how others around us are being treated/acting -and possibly even lead us to better recognizing the warning signs that someone is in desperate need of psychological assistance! Obviously not because we’re likely ever going to find ourselves working alongside the next hitler…but more along the lines of us possibly seeing the warning signs of someone around us, who is angry/violent and about to “snap” and do something terrible to a lot of innocent people. I know that probably all sounds really dumb/weird/grandiose-because the chances of anyone finding themselves in the position of noticing the early warning signs of a dangerous individual (and being able to help at all…) are slim, to none But I figure it’s probably better than just being 100% oblivious, right? 🤷‍♀️ I dunno. Just my late night ramblings I suppose. Lol☺️💗

[@janine7384]

@@glorygloryholeallelujah stopped reading when you called Amber Heard, a victim of DV with credible allegations, a monster. You should be ashamed of yourself.

[@glorygloryholeallelujah]

@@janine7384 you’re joking-right?🤣

[@janine7384]

@@glorygloryholeallelujah unlike Johnny Depp stans, I never joke about domestic violence

[@largeknockers7194]

The "no more wire hangers" scene freaked me out because my brother said to me "doesn't that remind you of Mom" I said yes and felt myself shaking.

[@littlesongbird1]

Agreed.

[@bostonblackie9503]

Christina Crawford, who said she had nothing to do with the movie, said she disliked it. She said her mother never mentioned wire hangers.

[@CB-hi7mf]

My narcissistic mother could be the twin of Betty Broderick. Mom tore up ALL the family photos after dad divorced her and sent them to Dad in another state. I now have no photos of my late soldier brother. Narc mom also threatened to kill me yesterday. No-one will do anything if I even called the cops. They are worthless and won't put her in a home. They have visited her 3 times in 4 months because of her behavior.

[@Muirmaiden]

@@bostonblackie9503 Christina has said that her mother would have rages over wire hangers in her closet, but that Joan never hit her with a wire hanger.

[@Kari.F.]

It's heart breaking that things like that triggers you. You clearly had a lot of trauma in your childhood. My childhood was far from trauma free, but I was always safe and felt loved behind closed doors. I've always believed that saved my mental health later. I'm sorry you didn't have that! 😢

[@ovh992]

if a person writes a favorable book about their hollywood star parents, it is called a memoir. if a person writes a book that is unfavorable to their hollywood star parents it is called "exploitation". lol

[@AmbiguousProxy]

Welcome to the double-standard that is human opinion

[@christienelson1437]

Same if someone only adopts a child for popularity or to improve their career is “exploitation “. Children are not shoes you buy to improve your image with.

[@missmoxie9188]

That’s true

[@jonathanhunter8076]

@@christienelson1437 It kind of depends whose lense you look through though - Joan adopted 4 children to help them and to do the best she could in her eyes whereas in Christina's eyes she did it for money/fame/popularity

[@christienelson1437]

@@jonathanhunter8076 True the times and beliefs about adoption and raising children were very different. However, Joan’s lifestyle and lack of experience with children did little to foster a wholesome relationship with the older children. I believe she did a lot better with the younger ones.

[@sonjafrost4]

The number of us who recognize Mommy Dearest as no exaggeration at all is heart breaking. I think at the time nobody had really seen an abusive meltdown on TV or movies like that. But id seen it over mash potatoes or poorly folded towels. The movie doesn't even seem abnormal to me.

[@boogiebear3095]

It doesn't...

[@Shmaples]

Me neither.. I haven't seen the entire movie in many years but the clips I have seen while diving deeper into the film online have not made me feel that they are ridiculous to the point of being funny.. To me, Faye is playing an extremely over the top, dramatic diva who is narcissistic to the core and cannot stand anything being out of her control for even a moment. Whether this was true to who Joan really was is not that relevant for me rather it shows what it might be like to live with a truly unstable, narcissistic parent.. I am sure there are kids out there growing up with parents that fly off the wall like Faye/Joan did in the film... And for that I do applaud Faye because you can see her really giving it her all and trying to embody this persona. The only thing I do lament about the movie is that they took a memoir from an abused child's point of view and turned it into a movie that was all about the abuser's point of view. Christina was a side character in her own abuse story.. That's sad..

[@bigbandsrock1]

It was a HUGE exaggeration and Christina herself says so!!! Read my posts above where Christina admits this herself!!!

[@sonjafrost4]

@@bigbandsrock1 the point is, to many of us this isn't an exaggeration at all. My mother was a total psycho and to this very day admits no wrong doing. She hurt and abused us mentally, physically and emotionally every day and still people side with her. "It's hard to be a mom" is what I hear most. I AM. A mom. I KNOW how hard it is. And it's still not ok what she did. Its not ok that we're all still pretending this doesn't happen every day.

[@Shmaples]

@@bigbandsrock1 Maybe an exaggeration of Joan but what were saying is that the movie isn't that "funny" because over the top as it might be, there are people that actually act like that and go off on their children like Faye portrays. This is some people's reality. That's all we're saying

[@Mels0103]

One of the worst parts of the aftermath of being abused are not wanting to tell anyone because you know people won't believe you and you'll likely be mocked. My heart goes out to Christina.

[@Garsons-oq4lh]

Christina wasn't abused and has even lied about being strangled by Joan (the most damning accusation she made about Joan too).

[@Mels0103]

@@Garsons-oq4lh You don't know what you're talking about, you weren't there. You don't get to say what did or did not happen. All you have is what Christina says happened. Stop dismissing abuse just to defend an actress you like, it's beyond pathetic.

[@Garsons-oq4lh]

@@Mels0103 No you don't. Doubtful you bother to do research and get other perspectives other than Christina's namely Billie Greene. Billie was a former secretary to Joan Crawford (also mentioned by name in Christina’s MD 20th anniversary edition) and here is a quote from her from an unpublished interview done around 1980 “I believe I am quoted to have said something like, “Stop, you’ll kill her.” There was a point where they were having an argument. What precipitated it was possibly one of many misunderstandings. Or where Christina had lied to Joan, and the hostility was getting greater. Joan came towards her and gave her a good swat, and hit her towards the neck area. I remember at one point taking Joan’s arm when it was in midair and saying, “I want you to stop. You’re going to hurt her.” This was not for Christina’s sake. This was for Joan’s sake. No one wants to see anyone out of control. I can tell you that I’d never seen any discipline towards Christina or towards the other children that I would call out of control. There was not brutality that night. Possibly there was rage. I can’t conceive of the distortion, unless Christina had a deep-seated plan, a vendetta that was present even when she was 14. Christina lied often for absolutely no reason." [**Courtesy of ChristinaCrawfordLied site**] So yes Billie admitted to witnessing Christina getting a smack however Christina doesn't write in her book that it was just a smack she wrote a grand story about strangulation. So based on Billie Greene's recollection Christina was not truthful about her most damning accusation against Joan. So if she was untruthful about one thing then what else has she been untruthful about. Also according to Billie there was a pattern of Christina lying.

[@unitymomentum]

@@Garsons-oq4lh obsessed much? I've seen your comments and the resource you cite are unreliable. Former employees are certainly able to defend the rich and famous in any circumstance, it's very common, especially with public figures as beloved as she was. Double so especially with the laissez-faire policies on what is considered child abuse for the past and even still today. I fear you might not grasp the lasting effects of trauma you might be dealing with over your own past evident by the typical sign of defending or rationalizing the behavior of an abuser like Christina's. Therapy does help.

[@Garsons-oq4lh]

@@unitymomentum And I've seen your comments. Who received all the money and notoriety from accusing Joan of being a abuser? Huh? It was Christina Crawford. But Billie Greene some former secretary? What has Billie received? Her interview disputing Christina's strangulation accusation went unpublished. No one dare call out untruths it seems.

[@diegoolivarez1]

People are sometimes incapable of understanding behavior that they haven’t personally experienced. This is camp to those who haven’t experienced it, and to those that have, it’s a horror movie. You can’t rationalize the irrational.

[@Ashbrash1998]

I've also heard you can't negotiate with a crazy person, cause what they see isn't based on reality.

[@ciciriddick]

Exactly.

[@yeetnama9094]

That's nice and all, but Christina is full of crap

[@ciciriddick]

@@yeetnama9094 So you were there?

[@ChristinaCrawfordLied]

Christina Crawford Lied

[@zs9351]

A 50 Minute BKR video is once in a lifetime event.

[@mylifeisaparty]

It’s a cultural reset

[@loadingcargoes]

Oh! I did not even check the time! I see BKR, I click.

[@michaelrecycle9838]

A new standard, I hope!

[@maggiemcfly5267]

50 minutes?! Damn, I guess I'll watch it in the morning lol

[@johnsaxton5281]

And it’s so well done, Bravo 👏

[@lukasguhle2814]

There can be a 100 people in a room and only god can know what happened between those people

[@mylifeisaparty]

LMAO

[@spookymadeleine]

😭😭😭

[@lizziebooth5397]

Oscar for best comment goes to

[@DasSchwarzeKorsett]

This is genius

[@SergioE.RascOrti]

AAAAHHHH iconic

[@5DNRG]

Having been raised by a mother who was two different people, one at home and someone completely different to others, I have ZERO doubt she was as bad as her daughter claims.

[@Garsons-oq4lh]

Just because someone (Joan) is accused doesn't mean they're guilty.

[@5DNRG]

@@Garsons-oq4lh if you read my comment, you see I never wrote she's guilty. I just dont doubt she was as bad as she seemed based on my personal experience of a mother quite similar.

[@LynnHermione]

@@Garsons-oq4lh you are 100% an abuser

[@itscris01]

@Garsons2059 Kids don't just lie about this stuff for the fun of it. Narcissists carefully cultivate this 'other'/alter personality to show people in public and especially in their social circles. At home, the switch flips, and they're _completely_ different people. As someone with N family members, it's really, really disorienting...and if you were an altruistic child who was too honest to understand how people could even exercise that duality to such an extreme and come across as wonderful to everyone else, but horribly abusive to you, congrats! That's narcissism for you. People think that the golden child/scapegoat dynamic has to involve more than one child, but the roles can easily be switched on an only child for whom the parent must project these roles. Children who are presented as perfect in front of everyone else, but a f*ck up, a burden, ungrateful, etc. at home.

[@kathyputnam84]

@@Discodancez WOW. You obviously didn’t read @Barbara Dellis ‘s comment correctly. She was supporting Christina’s description of her mother, as her mother was similar!

[@MAGAWITCH1990]

The wire hanger scene is not overacted or campy, it's very frighteningly realistic and anyone who thinks it is should count themselves as blessed and very lucky. I come from an abusive family and I don't believe people understand that point

[@kamille6636]

They don't, but I do.

[@eagleeye2300]

My mother was in the process of hitting my sister with a fly swatter when the plastic part came off and then the exposed metal part went into my sister's hand. Onetime (driving home from CHURCH, so classic...) We were evidently too loud in the backseat, so my mother was trying to hit us from the front seat with her purse, and gashed my head. My father picked on my older sister relentlessly and one time was hitting her and ripped the earring out of her just pierced ears. My youngest sister came home drunk, years later, and my mother sat on top of her and was beating the crap out of her. My other sister remembers my mother pounding on me, but I don't remember it. Having narcissistic parents is dangerous. And then to cause further trauma, what is going on is ignored, (enabled,) or rationalized "It wasn't that bad." Both of my parents were tyrants, and I was the scapegoat because I knew what was going on was crazy. Onetime they threatened to send me away to school and I begged them to do it. But they didn't. I do find myself grateful, however, that we had a beautiful home, medical care, all the food we could eat, nice clothing...Many advantages growing up that many did not have. However, we weren't really allowed to enjoy it because my parents were damaged people who got progressively worse as they aged. That's what happens as they lose their youth, feel a loss of power and control, see their children poised to gave their own lives. You have to be tough as h*ll to survive narcisstic parents. I believe Christina Crawford. She paid the price for defying her "mother." Joan tried to beat and punish the resistance out of her, I get it. I've lived it.

[@jilljohnson9310]

@@eagleeye2300 yeah then no one believes you when you're older & their dead & not as afraid to explain what happened you sound crazy.

[@eagleeye2300]

@@jilljohnson9310 I am far from crazy...A survivor... Spiritually guided... And as "dumb as a fox." All to the glory of God.

[@juanitarichards1074]

If our beds weren't made to her standards my mother would rip the whole bed apart and drag the mattresses off onto the floor, ranting and raving and screaming the whole time about what ungrateful littles bitches we were that we didn't care about our beautiful home....and we'd have to remake the bed from scratch as we sobbed in fear. She used to tip all our drawers out of our dressers and closets too and throw all our clothes on the floor with the same ranting and raving. We dreaded room inspections. We were like unpaid maids who couldn't do anything right, but we were just little kids.

[@kairioblivion6544]

I saw this movie as a child with my narcissistic mom. As a child it felt like i was watching my mom on screen, but my mom didnt see herself in joan. Later she started to scream at me for something and i responded with "yes mommy dearest" she hit me with intense rage in response. Id get my stuff taken away similar to how christina got her dolls taken, and if i showed sadness or anger to how i was treated i wud be called "always upset" "too sensitive" . I stopped talking to my mom 2020. When work put me on temporary leave due to pandemic, my mom was enraged to see me at home not at work while she still had to go to work at vons. After a week, she blew up, and i left home and i never wanna talk to her ever again. Thnx for letting me vent, 28 yrs of abuse yo, still healing.

[@jessbauman4459]

Ahhh the “too sensitive” phrase is all too familiar and makes me shudder.

[@joygroves6277]

I had a similar experience with my mother. I replied, yes mommy dearest. She looked at me with that hate filled expression, and said l, don’t ever call me that. I have tried for over 40 years. I finally gave up a few months ago.

[@nicipooh120]

36 years of it myself babe, I’m estranged af, stay strong 💪🏽

[@maggotmaiden]

I watched it with mine too when I was a kid and she just kept making a joke out of it. I don't even think she realized she was abusive

[@TheVLineLLC]

Love you guys ❤

[@cinnamongirl5410]

That movie was hard to watch. Reminds me of my mom, especially the ''night raids''. Been thru many of those ugh. To everyone else my mom was a saint, funny, charming.. but when she was alone watch out she was tormented, the yelling was animal like. I left cross country when I was 19 and that was it. 53 now and my mother is just a stranger.. don't even know the woman. And when I left, after about 8 years of untangling my mind from the insanity they drag you into and marinate their children in, I was free and could finally BREATHE. It happens. There are really these ''mothers'' out there.

[@anitataylor4287]

Yep, same. A step mom

[@CannibalOX99]

Fuck man i remember my mom coming Into my room in the middle of the night to kick my ass for no reason .......she's better now many years later lol

[@ceceoo3]

Oh wow, that is awful So sorry that u guys had to go through that

[@CannibalOX99]

@@ceceoo3 hey it builds character man. But thanks

[@sarahwarnock2707]

I'm so sorry you went through that! A dear friend of mind has night terrors bc of her mother. I haven't spoken to mine in about 12 yrs and mine wasn't half as bad as Joan. I hope you are doing well❤

[@heathercraig363]

People thinks it's campy and comedic and ridiculous but this is an absolutely excellent portrayal of narcism. They are extreme people.

[@brianwalsh1401]

Maybe a combination of narcissism and borderline personality disorders. My mom was diagnosed a paranoid schizophrenic but I think she was undiagnosed borderline from what I've learned about that disorder. She was a volatile person to be around and anything could set her off or nothing for that matter. I have a sister whose a lot like her.

[@ticketyboo2456]

It is camp. It's camp because it's written by a bitter little girl who wanted to bad mouth the woman who left her out of her will.

[@brianwalsh1401]

@Natalie I'm sorry for your diagnosis because BPD is very difficult to deal with. I'm not sure what you mean by "extra". My sister is a diagnosed BPD who has refused to acknowledge this for many years and yet it drives her life and behavior. I find her difficult to be around because she reminds me so much of my mother and I feel like I have to walk around on eggshells when she's around so that something doesn't set her off, just like my mom. So I just don't go around her which I feel is fair for me because when I was a child I didn't have that choice. I do now. While I can have empathy for people with this diagnosis, I can have empathy for myself having been traumatized by this behavior and allow myself to not be around people who are volcanic as this is difficult for me. You have acknowledged your diagnosis. That is the first step to working on it and dealing with it. I truly wish you the best. I wish my sister would but I can't make anybody do anything but I can protect myself. Good luck to you.

[@aliross2720]

Agreed. Pathologically narcissistic people are generally disastrous parents. This type of personality was not designed to be a caretaker. The needs of other people don't matter to them and the feelings of others are nonexistent. They are callous, selfish, cruel and indifferent. Children raised by narcissistic parents are haunted by the idea that they are not good enough and that they must be perfect in order to be loved. They are plagued by the idea that people will abandon them and that nobody can be trusted. They are allowed no security, no safety, no boundaries. They are simply tools for the narcissistic parent to use in whatever manner they deem necessary. How the narcissistic parent treats the child or children depends on what they are using the child for. For example, children that exist to showcase what a wonderful parent the narcissist is will often seem to be treated very well in public or in front of people, and there will be pressure on these children to perform perfectly in front of others. Performing badly or making mistakes will usually be taken very personally by the narcissist, and the child is often accused of embarrassing the narcissistic parent on purpose. Children that exist to provide unconditional love and acceptance to the narcissistic parent are treated like dolls on a shelf, to be used only when the narcissist needs them and ignored the rest of the time. Most children perform both of these functions and many others as well, all in the service of the narcissistic person's ego. The child's needs, personality and identity are often ruthlessly stomped out in an attempt to replace it with the narcissist's own. The child is not allowed to have boundaries or to be their own person. They exist only to service the narcissistic parent's ego and have no other use. This applies to spoiling the child, too, by the way. Children are usually spoiled for the same reason they are beaten: because the parent has a need that they are satisfying by using the child to do it, and it cannot be said enough that spoiling a child is abuse. Narcissistic parents may alternately spoil and ignore a child, which may leave the child unable to ascertain what behavior is appropriate, with difficulty understanding consequences, feelings or how to relate to other people because the reactions they receive are widely inconsistent. It is not uncommon to hear people say things like, "My wife was a wonderful mother at first," or "My brother was good to his children when they were babies." This is because it is easy for a pathologically narcissistic person to have positive feelings for something that does not challenge, threaten or contradict them, something that cannot reject or abandon them. This is why many narcissistic people seem to have positive feelings for animals, for instance. Children are easy to control. Animals are easy to control. They don't assert their own needs in a threatening way and for a time will love you unconditionally, no matter what you do to them. When the child gets older and starts to assert their independence and individuality or starts challenging the narcissistic parent, this will often change. The parent feels rejected by the child and offended by the child's individuality. If they blame the other parent, they will accuse the parent of turning the child against them somehow. They will often do what they can to control the child and try to turn the child against the other parent, in the misguided and toxic belief that they will win the competition they believe they are in for the child's love and admiration. If they blame the child, they will often shame, humiliate and abuse the child as punishment. This can be devastating to a child, especially because sometimes this happens when the child is still a toddler or very young. The child - who is still little more than a baby - is used to all of the parent's attention and love but now gets ignored, pushed away and denied. The golden child/scapegoat dynamic often comes in to play around the time independence shows up if there is more than one child, with the less difficult or less disappointing child being cast as the golden child. This is the child chosen to represent the narcissistic person's triumphs and successes. This child often seems to be treated very well. The child that is more difficult or disappointing somehow will often be cast as the scapegoat. This is the child that is forced to take the blame for everything that goes wrong. This child is generally treated very badly, sometimes by the entire family at the narcissist's direction. It's important to remember too that a narcissist can feel rejected by the child at any time, even when the child is a baby. A baby that cries too much or that needs too much can inspire resentment and rejection in a narcissistic parent. A narcissistic parent that pictured themselves angelically rocking their sweet bundle to sleep to the adoration of others can be very upset and disappointed in a screaming, shrieking, needing baby that does not love them as they imagined. There is also the issue that narcissistic parents often do not understand that there is a difference between themselves and a child, regardless of the child's age. They may compare themselves to children, even very young children, and say things like it isn't fair that the three year old doesn't get yelled at for being careless but they do, or that the four year old gets more consideration than they do, or that you are treating the 10 year old better than you treat them. They often don't seem to understand that the expectations for children and adults are different. They may believe they are being treated unfairly because of this, or they may expect children to behave like little adults and punish them if they do not do so. This is the kind of thing that really makes people wonder if there is something wrong with this person and the answer is yes. There is. When there is a narcissistic parent, the child will never matter any more than the narcissist wants them to matter. They are inconsequential if the narcissist needs something that does not involve them. If children are considered to be in the way by a narcissistic parent, they may even be in danger. Consider the cases of Susan Smith and Diane Downs, who killed their children because they believed the children were preventing relationships with the men they wanted to date. Consider the unborn child of Scott Peterson, who was killed because he wanted to be rid of his wife and did not want to be bothered with the way a child would complicate that. Consider the words of Casey Anthony, who faced trial for the murder of her 2 year old daughter Caylee. While in jail, Casey was recorded speaking to someone who was trying to reassure her that her friends and family were on her side. Casey's words were, "No, they're not. They just want Caylee back. That's all they're worried about, is getting Caylee back." Anyone interested in a very clear portrait of a pathologically narcissistic person should look into that case. Casey Anthony is, in many ways, a text book example. In the end, sad as it is, the way narcissistic people relate to children is no different than how they relate to anybody else. Their children exist to fulfill their needs and for nothing else. If the child does not succeed in this task or has needs of their own that the narcissist is threatened by, they will be abused, punished and even discarded by the narcissist without a second thought. No one is safe from a pathologically narcissistic person. They are disastrous parents and abusive, neglectful caretakers.

[@annakube9504]

@@aliross2720 What you say say is so real and true: my mom was exactly like this.

[@pixeldeath5846]

People who think the wire hangers scene is over the top, too unrealistic or funny are lucky to think things like that don't happen because that scene is actually frighteningly real to anyone who grew up with abusive parents.

[@ZanePrice-hd5gj]

Mommy dearest was my mom to a fault..

[@LasPhoenix777]

💯🎯

[@LasPhoenix777]

@@ZanePrice-hd5gjsame. It’s honestly like my mom was trying to reenact the movie.

[@WoodysAR]

​@@LasPhoenix777 My Mother brought me to Mommie Dearest (and TOMMY) double feature. When I was 6. Four hours later, I left the theater a short 36 year old...

[@Petal4822]

My mother was the exact same. I was an only child and she would go into terrible rages. She would come home from work and explode. Luckily my father a very kind placid man was always home first after work. My father would always say to her I bet you never talk to anyone in work like that and it’s your work that has put you in this rage. He would constantly expose her for the evil person she was. He would say to her you have a stone where your heart should be. My mother loved a big argument to escalate every night when she got home. She thrived on conflict. It wasn’t until my father threatened to wait outside her work and tell everyone she was a horrible nasty person & a horrible cruel mother that she stopped. He said to her let’s start this barrage of abuse outside your work why wait until you get home. My father was a man of honor and would never hit a woman, he would say a man that hits a woman is not a man. My mother would take advantage of this and berate the both of us all night. She knew my father would be outside her work so she stopped.

[@kumudinipictures]

I see that "Only God will know..." was Dunaway's version of "If there are 100 people in the room..."

[@lalat5899]

I don’t know that version. What does that mean?

[@spookymadeleine]

@@lalat5899 during the promotion of A Star is Born, Gaga would repeatedly say (about Bradley Cooper) "There can be 100 people in a room and 99 of them don't believe in you but all it takes is one and it just changes your whole life…"

[@kumudinipictures]

@Ramón Jurado Borrero you’re straight, aren’t you?

[@AlvaroIbacacheS]

@Ramón Jurado Borrero relax, it’s just a comparison with no bad feelings.

[@derickyyy]

@Ramón Jurado Borrero The similarity is that both women had a cheesy “canned response” (for lack of a better word) they used repeatedly during interview tours. Of course they aren’t the only celebrities who have repeated the same line in multiple interviews, but Gaga’s line became a meme, which is why the OP thought of during the Faye montage.

[@Joey-rn2bl]

51 minutes?!?! Girl.... let me get comfortable. we are eating tonight!!

[@FronkieTheSaltyRat]

Lmao!!

[@gilev3230]

Pass the cheese and wine

[@Neamhain]

I was recommended to watch "Mommie Dearest", and was told that it was an "over the top dramatic comedy". I only managed to watch part of it before I had to turn it off because it reminded me exactly of my mother, was making me extremely upset. Some of the scenes are almost exactly like incidents that happened during my childhood. "Mommie Dearest" isn't comedy. It isn't camp. It's a fcking horror movie. (Regardless of my feelings on this movie, excellent video!)

[@salvadorguntherr9673]

Lmmmfaoooooooooooooooo! Gotta watch it now

[@hanginwithlois]

You are so right. It is the true American Horror Story when you see your traumatic childhood play out on tv😢

[@sharonmchugh7957]

I don't know how anyone could consider this a comedy!

[@adamjeffries7235]

You’re absolutely correct

[@librasapphire7830]

Glad I wasn't the only one feeling exactly the same

[@darkred1438]

sometimes i think back on how hilarious my dads little meltdowns were. it was literally like watching a toddler not get their way. but as little 8 yr old me was enduring them, they were terrifying. he was bigger than me, stronger than me, there was no humor as it was traumatic. the 'no more wire hangers' scene seems outrageous and funny bc u cant imagine an adult behaving like that. but they do, abusive adults are quite childish in a way. its a sort of hilarious tragedy

[@sunny-gt7qw]

you summed it up perfectly. this was exactly my experience with my dad. It’s unreal how childish the anger and temper tantrums are but they were absolutely terrifying for me and I still struggle with feeling like I don’t have control because of it. I’m so sorry you had to endure that as well. I hope that you are safe now

[@meanbean6011]

​@sunny-gt7qw that's the thing. You know as a child that this is stupid and idiotic. But you're in terror because you know they can do anything to you

[@petezipardi4022]

My Dad used to wake me up in the middle of the night when he was drunk and force me to play chess with him. I'm like nine and it's two in the morning and he's slurringly teaching me the Sicilian defense.

[@ker9714]

Oh goodness, I was worried it was going to end much worse. Still not good to do to your little kid. Sorry he did that hon, I know drunk parents are scary.

[@amandanegrete1306]

By the time I came along in the 80’s, my grandfather was sober. He was a character, extremely rough around the edges but a wonderful grandfather. Very confusing for me bc I started to pick up on my mother and uncles’ animosity and downright disdain for him when I was pretty young. I spent many weekends with my grandparents as my parents were both working full time and attending college at night. I remember my mom picking me up when my grandma was out. At 7/8 years old I couldn’t understand that my mom didn’t say a word to my grandpa and he would say things like “Thanks for letting Mandy stay the weekend, we had a great time.” Rarely say responded with “yep” or “ok” at best. Over the years I witnessed the same dynamic between my grandpa and uncles. It was SO confusing bc here was this man that picked me up from school and took me to the zoo, the park etc. He always had a “treat” or “prize” for me and as I got older bought me things my parents couldn’t afford. When I did hear my mom and uncles talk to my grandpa they were “curt” and at times downright rude. Finally I asked my mom why she “didn’t like grandpa?” She explained that he was much different as a grandfather than father. She went on to tell me all that mattered was he was a wonderful grandpa. I felt very torn, that’s a strange dynamic for a kid. Finally I started understanding the conversations I overheard. My uncles and Mom often making comments to my grandma that it was great he sober but she should’ve gotten him sober while they were growing up. They all referred to him as “the old man” and I heard them talking about how miserable of father he’d been the older I got. Finally as a teen I got angry. I started confronting my mom. If he was such a “horrible father”, why had he been allowed to babysit me? Furthermore why was he nothing but kind to me and my brother? At 16/17 you have the wherewithal to know someone isn’t just a monster for decades to all of a sudden become a good person. Finally I learned the whole truth, he was in active alcoholism as a father. Barging in their bedrooms at all hours drunk, reciting Bible versus. He would crank up chamber music at 2, 3, 4am and make his kids get out of bed to “appreciate” the music with him. Apparently he was a verbally abusive drunk as well. When I was born he was active in his sobriety. Even volunteering through his AA group to spend time doing outdoors activities with at risk teens. Teens that lived in alcoholic homes. I realized he had tried to make amends to my mom and uncles and was giving them their space. He was respecting the fact they weren’t ready to start repairing their relationships. It must have been a miserable childhood bc my mom and uncles never did give him a chance as an adult parent in active sobriety. I think it was too painful for them. The emotional abuse must have been pretty heinous. My mom was very emotional when he died. I was a HS senior and actually disrespected my mom. Telling her she hated him and to quit crying. I even told her she had no right after “treating him like sh@t my entire life.” Finally the whole truth, she got mad as hell and told me she loved him for being so good to me and my brother. She just couldn’t get past the years of hell experienced when he was drinking. I finally started to try and understand (as much as possible) what she’d been through. Even though they never had a relationship, I think her way of “forgiving” him was allowing him to be a grandpa to her kids. Sadly, even with 15 plus years of sobriety the damage had been done physically. He died at 65 years old, his liver wasn’t working properly, heart damage etc all caused by years of drinking alcoholically. It’s amazing how much children of alcoholics suffer. Many for life. It’s sad his kids never wanted a relationship with him. I don’t judge them though, obviously being raised by an alcoholic must be hell that affects people for life. I think my mom made her peace with him seeing him work so hard in recovery and allowing him to be a very active grandpa to her kids. 20 years later if his name comes up she always says she’s grateful we experienced a completely different person. Sorry, for writing a novel. My grandma died yesterday so all these memories are coming forward. It’s sad my nom and uncles were affected for life by the disease of alcoholism. It’s sad to read your comment and others about alcoholic parents behaviors. I’m sorry you had to experience abusive behaviors from an alcoholic father. I hope he eventually got sober. Most of all I hope you’re healing from the effects of alcoholism. A lot of people don’t realize it’s a family disease and often affects children of alcoholics for life.

[@petezipardi4022]

@@amandanegrete1306 I hear you.

[@hellookaren9765]

@@amandanegrete1306 Hi Amanda, thanks for sharing your story. I feel like I have the same story as your mom except my father is not sober and has made no attempt to be part of my sons life. His only grandson. pride will stop a lot of things but it didn’t stop your grandpa for being in your life and changing his life. I feel for your mom... have some compassion with her and patience with her especially during this time. She’s gonna need your right now especially since he’s gone. I’m sure she has a lot to think about. Till this day whenever I’m around a drunk man who seeks hostile I get PTSD. I just shut down and wanna leave the room.I never want my kids to go through this and feel of me. I struggle morally if I could ever do what your mother did and let him in my sons life... what she did was big of her, even if she talked shit the whole way. She didn’t have to give him the chance but she did for your sake more so than him I can guarantee you that.

[@brianwalsh1401]

@@amandanegrete1306 Thank you for sharing your story. I can relate to your parents story and like you said unfortunately a lot of people can because it is so common. Not just alcoholism but a myriad of other ways that parents can't be there for their children because of the trauma they had in their lives. I hope your mom got some help with those issues of growing up in an alcoholic home. I'm grateful I've had the opportunity to work on my issues as well through a 12 step program called ACA. Even as a stepson these issues will filter down and effect you as well. They say you either pass it back or pass it on.

[@EM2theBee]

While the movie is lacking many things, I too was adopted by a volitile, rage filled, and abusive mother. I came to understand her beginnings made her who she was, but that doesn't heal childhood trauma. I saw this movie and felt like someone was telling my story. Yes it's a caricature of a movie star, but it is also a chilling look at abuse, to some.

[@fndngnvrlnd]

So sorry to hear what you suffered. I suffered in childhood too. Took me 20 years of therapy to heal.

[@colly7963]

I watched it with two friends - one thought it was hilarious, the other was horrified. I found it pretty triggering and would never watch it again.

[@DylanRomanov]

I was adopted and abused by a narcissist mother. This movie was all too real. I personally feel like the actress of Christina kinda sucked.

[@sunrope77]

@@DylanRomanov I’ve always wondered why certain people actively seek to adopt a child only to subject them to physical/verbal abuse, as if they didn’t want them. I guess narcissism and the idea of having someone who “needs” them (ie a child) makes a lot of sense

[@DylanRomanov]

@@sunrope77 That’s exactly what it was . I had to clean at midnight before as a child . They want the image of a perfect family and they start to crumble when kids can’t live up to their expectations. I do believe my adopted mother has love for me but she doesn’t know how to communicate without being back handed or judge mental.plus I’m a extremely sensitive man and the physical abuse I haven’t been able to deal with. As with Joan me my mother they were not monsters but they could be down right cruel and I feel like intent or not, it still fucks up a child. With that being said I’m still a huge fan of Joan and Faye. They were all very strong women during a time when they had so many closed doors and limitations. They mastered their craft and made a mark on the entertainment business. I definitely respect a hard worker, and a go-getter. But when you decide to have a family you must sacrifice the need to be on top all the time. Parenting is all about patience , being vulnerable, gentle, firm at times , and most importantly a GUIDE to this vast world around them. People forget that children usually think and act just like them. They can’t handle the brutal honestly and lack of control when it comes to the child. They see them as an extension of them instead of a fully bodied human who has the right to do whatever they desire. Parents are way too controlling when it comes to a child’s interests or being allowed to have separate opinions from them. I’m 28 and I’ve seen my adoptive mother maybe 5 times in 11 years. Her “image” and her need to be in control has forced me to stay away. She’s really sick I’m the hospital right now and I just feel so many emotions about possibly losing her. I’m like deeply sad but a fucked up part of me feels like I’ll finally be mentally free from her. Which I feel terrible to even say that.

[@nhmisnomer]

Oh horseshit, Faye Dunaway. Joan Crawford abused Christina. I didn't grow up in fame & fortune, but Mommie Dearest could've been my autobiography. This is how crazy mothers act ( a certain type of crazy mother). She's was a mesmerizing actress, but that doesn't mean she was a good person

[@comments.are.turned.off...]

You said it!!! Everyone trying to dampen the outrageous horror is ironically hilarious.

[@noname-jh3bd]

yep, she was put on a pedestal. sadly, people overlook what's on the inside; they only focus what's on the outside.

[@tanyahorula1060]

Was your caregiver/abuser diagnosed with anything or do you have a guess? Joan Crawford mirrors someone in my past who abused me. I've searching to figure out what was wrong with them.

[@nhmisnomer]

@@tanyahorula1060 my mother never got help so we don't have an official diagnosis. Her mood swings were so drastic and so predictable -- unfailingly predictable -- that I would say bipolar, but she also checks all the boxes for anti-social personality disorder. I'm not a healthcare professional but it's my best guess from years of experience with her and research. In the end, getting help for myself was 10x more important than figuring her out.

[@Garsons-oq4lh]

@@nhmisnomer In Christina Crawford’s memoir Mommie Dearest she wrote of an incident whereby she ALLEGES Joan Crawford strangled her after she returned home from boarding school for summer vacation in June 1953. When Christina wrote of this allegation, she stated Joan had “a look in her eyes that will never be erased from my memory.” After this ALLEGED altercation, Christina was sent immediately back to boarding school. Christina published Mommie Dearest in October 1978. Nearly simultaneously to her writing this memoir, Christina was court ordered to be questioned in an UNDER-OATH deposition by Joan Crawford’s estate in February 1978. During her UNDER-OATH, court ordered deposition, Christina is specifically questioned about this incident, to which she responded: “I don’t know what you are referring to,” and continues to evade the questions regarding the incident. In addition to Christina’s complete, on the record, CONTRIDICTION of this event, the EYE-WITNESS to this event came forward in 1981 to confirm Christina LIED in her book. That EYE-WITNESS is Billie Greene, she was Joan’s assistant at the time. Greene stated in her unpublished interview: “I believe I’m quoted as saying ‘Stop, you’ll kill her.” I can tell you that I’ve never seen any discipline towards Christina or the other children that I would call out of control. There was not brutality that night.” *Credit to ChristinaCrawfordLied facebook.*

[@queenbratbracken]

I always thought the extreme overreactions and over-the-top emotions were not camp or bad acting but portrayed how Christina had seen her mother behave.

[@unitymomentum]

Right! People forget children are small and defenseless

[@kellicvred]

Camp isn’t simply about the performance, the way it is shot contributes, as well as writing. This movie is definitely camp. I’m not sure why to some that portraying the story and classifying it as camp due to its feel and performances, is a bad thing. The camp, while unintentional, has made it a cult classic, timeless. Also, Christina said the movie wasn’t correct in its portrayal, so let’s stop pointing to her to say it was accurate from her point of view. It is indeed, camp.

[@pagemastrogiovanni9195]

For those who had parents that were unstable that could go to extreme on the drop of a dime. By the way, Bette Davis' daughter wrote a book about her and she was depicted as worse than Joan Crawford. "Davis’ biological daughter Barbara “B.D.” Hyman released her own damaging tale, “My Mother’s Keeper,” in 1985. It portrayed the actress as a ruthless bully who faked attempted suicides for sympathy." The entertainment industry attracts narcissistic people. It is almost a necessity to protect them for all the trauma they will have to go through to survive industry.

[@Sequins_]

I agree. It looks like how adult temper tantrums look. They’re stupid and terrifying

[@Hanami63]

In a way, the way people laugh and make fun of this movie sickens me. I did find this movie very hard to watch, to the point that I started crying a lot and was an emotional wreck for days after. A lot of what Joan in the movie did, I went through with my mother, so it was like reliving all that trauma all over again. And now to think that people think this kind of child abuse is a joke. It's disheartening to say the least. Sure, parts of the movie were over the top, but the core of the issue and a lot of the actions taken were very real to some children like me.

[@fawnieee]

@@DeepScreenAnalysis they dismiss it every chance they got. So long as they haven't experienced it, then surely it doesn't exist! When I tried talking about what my grandmother was doing to me, all I got was "grandmother's don't behave like that!"

[@christienelson1437]

I think that was what Christina was trying to say. Her book was about the child not the parent.

[@hariman7727]

You have my sympathy, at my prayers. The sad truth is that some people who haven't dealt with abuse or known people who have dealt with abuse just cannot understand that there are people who do not care about their child's well-being and hurt their child horribly. If anybody ever tries to tell you "but they're your family", tell that person that it's because they were family that they should have done better, and it's a family's job to not abuse members of that family.

[@ovh992]

When i first saw this movie i thought it was funny. Once i realized this was a true story and that the kids were actually abused, i stopped laughing.

[@tomservo5007]

please, the movie was played way too over the top

[@pansypresents2103]

i can't believe you reached out to lypsinka. what a fucking legend.

[@MrOwl-hk7my]

Legends only.

[@mikegonzalez503]

I thank you for doing that

[@manthony225]

I can't believe I haven't been paying proper attention to the first drag queen I had ever heard of. I remember reading about her in the 80's - it was either Time or Rolling Stone Magazine.

[@RaymondHng]

Who's next? Matthew Martin on Bette Davis?

[@harrymeepharry]

Iconic

[@lolarian]

so glad to see there are actually a lot of comments talking about how this movie unnerved them because of their own similar abuse. my sister and I tried watching this movie and didn't even get through it because of how much it reminded us of our mom, who was also very glamorous, seen as charming and kind to others, but once you're alone with her, phew. ( funny enough she was the one who forced us to watch and at times defended Joan...) my heart goes out to those who had to live with an abusive mother specifically.

[@Garsons-oq4lh]

@Kakashi In CHRISTINA CRAWFORD'S memoir "Mommie Dearest" she wrote of an incident whereby she ALLEGES Joan Crawford strangled her after she returned home from boarding school for summer vacation in June 1953. When Christina wrote of this allegation, she stated Joan had "a look in her eyes that will never be erased from my memory." After this ALLEGED altercation, Christina was sent immediately back to boarding school. Christina published "Mommie Dearest" in October 1978. Nearly simultaneously to her writing this FRAUDULENT memoir, Christina was court ordered to be questioned in an UNDER-OATH deposition by Joan Crawford's estate in February 1978. During her UNDER-OATH, court-ordered deposition, Christina is specifically questioned about this incident, to which she responded: "I don't know what you are referring to," and continues to evade the questions regarding this incident. In addition to Christina's complete, on the record, CONTRIDICTION of this event, the EYE-WITNESS to this event came forward to confirm Christina LIED in her book. That EYE-WITNESS is Billie Greene, She was Joan's assistant at the time. Greene stated in her unpublished interview: "I believe I'm quoted as saying 'Stop, you'll kill her."...I can tell you that I've never seen any discipline towards Christina or the other children that I would call out of control. There was not brutality that night." (Greene's full interview is in-depth and REVEALING) *Credit to ChristinaCrawfordLied facebook.*

[@brandonpage7087]

Thankfully my mom was kind & loving. My father was & still can be, a monster. Kakashi, I feel for you & others, who are victims of abuse, like myself. To everyone attacking Kakashi on here. He was stating how Faye's performance reminded him of his own abusive mother. He wasn't stating that everything Christina Crawford wrote was the honest to god truth, he was relating childhood pain. He doesn't deserve to be attacked for this.

[@carlettecannon8716]

May God help you and your sister to have a better life at this time your mother will I guess I shouldn't say anything bad because she is your mother but be blessed and safe all the way from Baton Rouge Louisiana 2021

[@AmberAmber]

I have a... complicated? relationship with my mum. She's been abusive & she's been amazing. She was abused by a mum she saw the same way. I feel broken still. My mum took me to see this in theatres when I was 5. She defended Joan & Christina alike. My mum has apologised for narcissism & psychologically invalidating me. She's apologised for corporal punishment. She also forgets she's apologised & then treats me terribly all over again. I love her & I spend so much time trying to get her to love me the way she loves the idea of who she imagines I ought to be. I'm truly a broken woman. XO & love to all.

[@aruglaempire2518]

@@Garsons-oq4lh And.....?

[@michellew4637]

As the daughter of a Narcissistic Mother, trust me, this is true and not camp. We LIVED this 💔

[@williammclean5897]

It’s camp

[@bulliboyz]

@@williammclean5897it’s abuse. And drag artists are the worst

[@stopthephilosophicalzombie9017]

@@bulliboyz Word.

[@toxicperson8936]

That doesn’t mean that Christina is telling the truth

[@Sofi-ji4jl]

@@bulliboyz you're the worst, closet case

[@colleenosullivan857]

I believe every word about Christina’s abuse. I was raised in a house with 4 kids and was on the receiving end of my fathers loathing for the sin of looking like my mother. When I went to a school counselor and told them about it (I was about 8) I begged them not to tell him I was there and told them about the abuse. By the time I got home, he had already been informed. Because he was president of the pta and an eligible bachelor, I had to be lying. It continued till I was married and the emotional abuse continued till I cut him off. I wasn’t even mentioned in his obituary. Christina was not making it up!!

[@Garsons-oq4lh]

Billie Greene -Former secretary to Joan Crawford-unpublished interview 1980 “I believe I am quoted [in Christina’s book regarding the LIE that is the strangling incident] to have said something like, “Stop, you’ll kill her.” There was a point where they were having an argument. What precipitated it was possibly one of many misunderstandings. Or where Christina had lied to Joan, and the hostility was getting greater. Joan came towards her and gave her a good swat, and hit her towards the neck area. I remember at one point taking Joan’s arm when it was in midair and saying, “I want you to stop. You’re going to hurt her.” This was not for Christina’s sake. This was for Joan’s sake. No one wants to see anyone out of control. I can tell you that I’d never seen any discipline towards Christina or towards the other children that I would call out of control. There was not brutality that night. Possibly there was rage. I can’t conceive of the distortion, unless Christina had a deep-seated plan, a vendetta that was present even when she was 14. Christina lied often for absolutely no reason. [The book] was a pack of lies that made your hair stand on end. I have utter contempt for Christina.” *Credit to **#ChristinaCrawfordLied*

[@SugaNiyasMom]

I'm sorry that you had to endure that. Sending healing vibes your way

[@ronaldreaganhater6982]

@@Garsons-oq4lh so basically Joan was going to hit her child in the neck but that doesn't count as abuse because the quoting from Christina wasn't accurate huh?

[@mykael-soul-rock]

And at the end of the day YOU were not there.

[@Garsons-oq4lh]

@@ronaldreaganhater6982 Christina Crawford claims in "Mommie Dearest" that she was strangled by Joan Crawford in the summer of 1953. Here is how she describes this incident in her book: "The choking pain of her fingers around my throat met the thudding ache of the blow to the back of my head. She banged my head on the floor, tightening her grip around my throat....I gasped for air and felt myself sinking into unconsciousness as I tried desperately to fight back....If something or someone didn’t help me very soon I was going to die. I tried with the last bit of my strength to struggle free of those choking fingers and managed to wedge one of my knees between her body and mine and push upward on her ribs with my hands which loosened her grip slightly. It at least allowed a trickle of air down my throat and kept me from losing consciousness." This type of physical attack would, no doubt, leave bruises to the neck and throat. However, according to Christina, she had no bruises to the neck or throat, and the bruises she claims to have received to the face were greatly diminished within "a few days." This is what Christina Crawford said regarding her "injuries" after this alleged strangulation: "I had one black eye and a cut on my upper lip that was swollen and covered with dried blood. My whole face was sort of puffy and I had a perfect handprint bruised across one cheek....A few days later I was on my way back to the Chadwick’s house...I still had vestiges of the black eye but the rest of my face had returned pretty much to normal." This claim is medically impossible. Bruises to the face take at least a minimum of 1 to 2 weeks to fade. Perhaps this was a quick rationale by Christina in her book to account for no one seeing these "injuries" after she returned to Chadwicks. By 1988. Christina Crawford claimed in her book "Survivor" that the stroke she suffered in late 1981 was the result of this "strangulation." Christina claimed the strangulation caused an embolism (a blood clot) that blocked the flow of blood to her brain, and this embolism had lied dormant for over 28 years (1953 - 1981) without causing issue before it dislodged and flowed to her brain. This claim, in and of itself, is medically improbably, if not impossible. However, the impossibility is further enhanced when considering that Christina did not even have bruising to her throat from this alleged strangulation. In "Survivor" Christina writes: "In the hospital the doctors questioned me as thoroughly as they could about possible causes of my stroke. They were interested in what might have been a source of original damage to the left carotid artery in my neck since I had no history of high blood pressure or high cholesterol. They asked me about a car accident or a neck injury. I had experienced none. The only incident I could think of was a violent argument my mother and I had when I was thirteen years old. She had been drinking at the time and flew into a rage. I recalled this incident in the book Mommie Dearest, not knowing at the time I wrote about it that I would later have a stroke" This outrageous allegation is further debunked by a 1978 sworn deposition, whereby Christina DENIES knowledge of this incident. Along with a unpublished interview with the secretary (Billie Greene) who was an eye witness the evening Christina claimed this strangulation took place. Greene refuted the claim that Joan strangled or choked Christina. **ChristinaCrawfordLied**

[@iTsEfFiNsTePhh]

It's kinda unsettling how some people are defending Joan & justifying what she did- oh she wasn't a monster she was a "warrior" or this is how a woman had to be in hollywood at the time or she was such an "amazing" woman.. like bruh no NOTHING excuses abuse. The scary part is I grew up in an abusive home & was abused by my mom too & Joan reminds me of my mom- especially the wire hanger thing & where she's losing her shit in the bathroom like I can legit 100% see my mom doing that because she went crazy like that A LOT like blackout crazy & most of it ended with her physically hurting me & is just as full of herself as Joan was but mom is a million times more emotionally abusive & neglectful- I remember whenever she made me clean my room & once I was done she'd come in & inspect it & if ONE thing wasn't to her liking she'd completely trash my room & make me do it again & i'd have to stay in there until it was done (I couldn't leave to eat, couldn't go to the bathroom etc) like the list could go on & on. Thankfully once I turned 18 I managed to get away from my mom & haven't talked to her since then cut her off for good. I guess cause I was abused too I can't stand seeing an abuser praised. Like we can still say she was a good actress, that she was talented etc but that doesn't excuse abuse.

[@warriorangel6805]

Hugs, praying for u ! God bless u!

[@liseraphina2421]

@Stephanie, I’m so sorry you had a mom like that! YOU not only survived, but from your comment seem to be a kind and caring person. I’m so glad you were able to escape that life. You’re a strong woman.

[@gauloise6442]

It really bothers me how so-called feminists use feminist terminology to safeguard abusive women. Joan Crawford is no hero for women, there are a lot of women who came from nothing and became stars and didn't abuse their kids.

[@Gemini530]

They defend Joan because a lot of what happened from this story is not true.

[@danigolightly799]

She was a warrior in Hollywood. She was also a terrible mother.

[@Starchild719]

The wire hangar scene is massively triggering for me. It's exactly the kind of insane abuse I suffered as a child that I had no way to escape or tell anybody about because I was completely powerless in the face of the family image. Regardless of the motive behind it, the scene is scary accurate. The only people who laugh are those who never even consider it could be real.

[@bradfordhamilton3021]

Same here.

[@Carolina57685]

that thing with people kicking a doll of christina down the street is straight up gross tho child abuse isnt funny in any scenario

[@guppy8073]

thank you for commenting this. that horrified me and i didn’t know if it was just me being sensitive.

[@selalewis9189]

I also don’t believe it happened either. Anyone is capable of being cruel and insensitive, but the press at that time had no problem exaggerating or straight up lying about the gay community.

[@Carolina57685]

@@selalewis9189 honestly it cant be real...

[@lucpraslan]

Are you kidding? It sounds hilarious! I would piss myself laughing seeing drag queens dressed as Joan kicking Christina dolls down the street. Don't tell me I don't know what I'm talking about as I had terribly physically abusive and emotionally abusive parents but that stuff is funny. Lighten up, have a laugh, don't take it so seriously. It's just a silly movie.

[@amuljanov]

@@selalewis9189 Why would you not believe it happened? Drag Queens aren't exactly known for sensitivity or subtlety. And the source of that story is the writer Daniel Harris ("The Rise and Fall of Gay Culture"), who is a gay men.

[@ChristopherSmith-il6fo]

As a gay man, I saw this quote online on why we love women celebrities so much. And I can't remember the exact line or where it's from by the idea is that gay men love them because they are the other but also unapologetic about it. They are women who are unapologetically themselves and we admire that about them.

[@johndonaldson3619]

'As a gay man' - do you have any other way of introducing yourself?? Or is that it...? Do you mind if as a 'straight guy' I have a similar view on these women?? (not that I need to start any conversations with 'as a straight man")

[@juniorsolorio8269]

@@johndonaldson3619 I think he was pointing out how so many gay men (myself included) gravitate towards female celebrities and the potential correlation as to why

[@mischa4163]

​@@johndonaldson3619 ok, so, a gay man may never talk about his experience as a gay man, or? i am not trying to sound confrontational! :)

[@mischa4163]

@@johndonaldson3619 and also, of course you don't feel the need to start a conversation with "as a straight man": that is, quite honestly, the ingrated "norm" of most western societies. christopher saying "as a gay man" is not taking anything from you, or doing anything to you, that takes away your views on these women! he is adressing a trend in the cultural miasma of gay people having a certain love for female celebrities. that he experiences, as a gay man, then adressing it, in the context of the minority, the collective, cultural group.

[@Anonymouswatcherandcommenter]

@@johndonaldson3619 You need to maybe take it down several to many notches.

[@noextrai]

great video.

[@apheliaa]

Hi!!

[@iTeacupPanda]

We see you, you stunning blonde woman on the go. ~

[@inxinet]

Willam girl why are you everywhere

[@nicholasKMAmusic]

Worlds I never thought would collide but Im rlly here for it!

[@mjallen1308]

THE...Willam Belli? You were on Boston Public with Loretta Devine.

[@dsrtflwr6093]

My mother was a school teacher and everyone in the community highly regarded her and respected her. But at home she was a monster to us kids. At least one of us was getting beaten up every day. Every time I go back to the small town I grew up in I have to listen to the "wonderful" stories about my mother and how much they miss her.

[@ashleyworden1887]

I also have to hear "how wonderful" my horrible "mom" was. It really hurts. I feel for you.

[@katrinafitch3534]

My mom is a great Christian mother who has a sweet and giving heart.... to others. And my older brother and younger sister. I was targeted. No one would believe me if I even tried to explain.

[@mr_anonymous123]

​@@katrinafitch3534 i believe u

[@laurensweeny4513]

Yes I felt like a hypocrite when I just nodded or didn’t respond when people said how sweet she was

[@jamesa.romano8500]

"Of all the actresses, to me, only Faye Dunaway has the talent and the class and the courage it takes to make a real star." - Joan Crawford, My Way of Life, 1971

[@johnsax1445]

Ironic, isn’t it?

[@jeremypullen8755]

,,thatz RIGHT.period

[@thomassperduti4500]

Joan Crawford said that in "Conversations with Joan Crawford" by Roy Newquist not in her book "My Way of Life".

[@vih6650]

@@thomassperduti4500 "Furthermore, it has been stated that Crawford's secretary, Betty Barker, claimed to have no records of any appointments Newquist ever had with Crawford, and no records of any interviews he conducted. This Webmaster can confirm, from first-hand knowledge, that Newquist's name is not within either of Crawford's voluminous telephone directories from the 1960s and 1970s. The fact remains there are no aspects contained within this book that were not previously told, or alluded to, in Joan's own autobiography "A Portrait of Joan," or Bob Thomas' biography, thereby making this book very easy to have manufactured from prior published sources. I have personally interviewed Newquest's children, who refer to their father as an alcoholic "con artist." I wholeheartedly contend this book is completely fraudulent." www.theconcludingchapterofcrawford.com/biographies.html The quote was probably made up.

[@thomassperduti4500]

@@vih6650 well, and so your wrong! Again Conversations with Joan Crawford is the Technicolor Spectacular of all the books written about Joan and its much, much to late to try and change this consensus after decades of authors and critics agreeing.

[@shawnphillips7849]

As a child that suffered abuse in the 80s, this film captured the hopelessness of the moment of abuse and portrayed the abuser as wrong. Meant a lot to me at the time.

[@LucyLioness100]

I’m so sorry to hear you experienced an abusive childhood 😞 I hope you’re in a far better place now

[@Kirsten_is_cursed10]

Wow, I just finished the book and as someone born and adopted in the 90’s I was so frustrated. I’m so sorry you went through this, you are worth much more and deserved much better. These days you WILL be supported if you want to talk about it, we younger folks are ready to talk about it if/when you are and we support you. 💙

[@toiwilliams1582]

Same as a child that suffered abuse in the 90s and 00s!

[@shellirk2819]

- Shawn, I'm so sorry that you too experienced abuse as a child. I have made some sort of peace with my abusers, but it has taken me far too many years to get there. I watched this movie with my Mom. It most definitely was good to see her sympathize with Christina. That was good enough for me in the moment. I do hope you have found some peace now as well. Children deserve so much better. ♥️

[@kelleymayo8149]

@@toiwilliams1582 same here :,( I suffer from PTSD from it. I can’t psychically watch this movie because of it. I have to pause this video so I can read the comments. We’re in this together ❤️

[@tweewho]

It's so interesting to hear how the general public received this movie, because I watched it as a teenager and was TERRIFIED. It may not have reflected my experiences of abuse in fact, but in feeling it got it spot on. I considered it a somewhat accurate depiction of what it's like to have this terrifying, confusing, awful experience at the hands of the person who's supposed to love you most. The quotes in the middle about how audiences found it funny are so counter to my one experience of this movie. I've been too scared to revisit it ever since.

[@aylasdope]

I agree! Past abuse and trauma aside. I remember the axe scene like no ones business. My brother and I used to joke and call our mom “Mommie dearest”. If we did tho you had to be ready to run. Lol we quote the movie to each other all the time now. I watched it a couple months ago just to do it. And it’s one I wouldn’t rewatch again for a couple of years lol

[@clarkrogers7789]

An aspect of gay culture is taking something - and sometimes even something that causes us great harm - and turning it into something else. Something that we can own. A lot. And I mean a LOT. of us have mothers who see our femininity in childhood as weakness and reflective of their own personal failures. It's fucking weird tbh but we don't have to get all into that lmao. Point is - I personally think that the audience of gay adult men who were watching this movie in the 1980s, especially after they had started to really face the collective trauma in films like Boys In The Band, they took this trauma of childhood and laughed at it. Maybe part of the laughter was to heal. And maybe they were also laughing at themselves. Look at this clown of a monster my memories have painted. This isn't a real person and it can't harm me anymore. So pass the fuckin' night creme, Joan and bring me the axe!

[@arurasky]

@@clarkrogers7789came here to leave a comment asking if anyone else thought it was weird that we took someone's trauma and made a joke out of it. (Like pls tell me those drag performances didnt involve people hitting dolls resembling Christina Crawford with wire hangers.) But I suppose your points ate very profound. I too am a trans woman living with my own mommie dearest in quarantine and I guess I ca ser the funny here. Cant say I wasnt laughing at "DONT FUCK WIT ME FELLAHS!" but I was also crying at the hair cutting scene... definently viewed this film much differently than most.

[@magdn1]

Movies about child abuse read different to children or even young teenagers. Mommie Dearest was terrifying to watch as child. Which is why I disagree with this "camp" and "not about Christina" takes. Dunaway is terrifying in the same way a horror movie villain is terrifying. You don't get an insight into the monster of "It Follows" sad childhood or complex psyche, they just come at the undeserving protagonists fully formed with deadly intent, inevitable, inescapable, not to be reasoned with. The question is not if they pop up, just when and how. Dunaway flips out over the wire hangers, it's pretty close to a jump scare. Not because it's surprising that she would flip out (it's not) but because the movie posits that it is inevitable that she will. It also makes sense that the movie is a laundry list of episodes and a flat portrait of Crawford, because that's why you remember your childhood and your parent when you're a kid. Your childhood doesn't have an arc and your parents and their decisions are incomprehensible and all-powerful. If Mommie abuses you over something that should be unimportant or even benign, then there is nothing you can do. Abusive parents are inevitable in their abuse, inescapable and not to be reasoned with. To an audience more likely to identify with the child character , Dunaway's Joan is the metaphor squared - the horror movie villain that isn't just the metaphor but also the real thing.

[@lh9591]

For real. My parents would get so ridiculously violent over the most trivial things, like bringing them the wrong fork. So when I saw the no wire hangers scene, I was like, shit, that’s accurate. I was very surprised to find out people find this funny.

[@user-jg6gj5mf2w]

This movie was phenomenal because I felt it did speak about child abuse. I lived through similar treatment from my own mother. I don’t understand why people have given it such negative reviews. I guess they never experienced the horrors that some of us endured. Thank you for offering this analysis.

[@MacieRivera]

Thank you for your comment. I had a similar experience. Everyone thought that my mom was perfect and wonderful. Behind closed doors, she was abusive and cruel.

[@Probablylani]

My dad related to it. And unfortunately some of the breaks, like the shouting of “no wire hangers,” bled into his behavior with me. But my heart goes out to him and his brothers. They lived through all of the “campy, exaggerated” trauma…it’s trauma. My childhood was confusing. Because at the end of the day, that woman who was much like Joan, was my grandma.

[@chromaticmage]

It’s odd to me that Mommie Dearest is largely considered trash, when I think of it as a masterpiece.

[@AmbiguousProxy]

Whilst I agree with your grading of the film, I believe for most people it's a contextual thing. The film resonated with victims of domestic abuse and the "camp-ness" or exaggerated nature of the perfomance would seem almost parody to those who had never been exposed to this in real life. In that way, it most certainly is a masterpiece; understood for its subject and misunderstood for its execution.

[@heathercraig363]

They portrayed narcissism in the most accurate way possible, imo.

[@shaniquequaeakin564]

Right. As a kid my mom and I watched it together and I thought the acting was amazing. I still feel that way. I was surprised to find out it was trashed when I got older.

[@mayapace6914]

Me too

[@bobsanders9114]

I have never understood the degree of notoriety of this film. I have always considered it an epic dissertation on Hollywood, the victimization of women, an essay on star pathology, and deeply misunderstood by critics and camp-purists alike. I love camp: give me about 10 minutes (no more, please!) of Maria Montez, or a good, if brief sketch on The Bad Seed. But I don't see it here; I never did. A much maligned movie - whenever it appears on a Worst-Of lists, it automatically signals to me the essential ignorance of the list author. Faye Dunaway may or may not have been a problematic, bullying, mean-spirited, spoiled actress; Joan Crawford may or may not have been violent and mentally ill; either actress may or may not be a monster. But to assign the ambiguity of our response to their admitted problems, illnesses, weaknesses and flaws, and somehow arrive at the conclusion that "Mommie Dearest" is a "bad movie" or a "camp classic" is simply wrong-headed and simple-minded. This essay, I believe, attempts to parse the question, but is not entirely successful. It's no shame to come to the conclusion that everyone who sees this movie simply as bad filmmaking or a camp comedy is mistaken. It's no shame to state that the movie is far, far better than its detractors insist. Nothing against Lypsynka. A girl's gotta make money, I guess. Like Crawford and Dunaway.

[@samslost6011]

As someone with an abusive mother, there is no harder kick in the face than to have someone who knew your abuser socially come to their defense and insist that the things that happened in your own home didn't happen. Joan Crawford was an actress. She could have fooled anyone. There are many great actors living amongst us every day. How many times have people surprised you? For someone to assert that they 'know' people so well that they would publically call their victims liars is laughable.

[@dqverify6797]

YES.

[@Garsons-oq4lh]

Billie Greene -Former secretary to Joan Crawford-unpublished interview “I believe I am quoted [in Christina’s book regarding the strangling incident] to have said something like, “Stop, you’ll kill her.” There was a point where they were having an argument. What precipitated it was possibly one of many misunderstandings. Or where Christina had lied to Joan, and the hostility was getting greater. Joan came towards her and gave her a good swat, and hit her towards the neck area. I remember at one point taking Joan’s arm when it was in midair and saying, “I want you to stop. You’re going to hurt her.” This was not for Christina’s sake. This was for Joan’s sake. No one wants to see anyone out of control. I can tell you that I’d never seen any discipline towards Christina or towards the other children that I would call out of control. There was not brutality that night. Possibly there was rage. I can’t conceive of the distortion, unless Christina had a deep-seated plan, a vendetta that was present even when she was 14. Christina lied often for absolutely no reason. [The book] was a pack of lies that made your hair stand on end. I have utter contempt for Christina.” **Courtesy of ChristinaCrawfordLied**

[@JanWest24]

@@Garsons-oq4lh so she literally just admitted seeing Joan hit her kid and only stopping her not to protect the kid but for her? Do you really not see how fucked up that is ?

[@Garsons-oq4lh]

@@JanWest24 Well all I know is Yes she admitted to witnessing Christina and Joan in a spat and Christina getting a smack however Christina doesn't write in her book that it was or just a whack SHE wrote that she was STRANGLED by Joan who then had to be pulled off of Christina (not what Billie says). So based on Billie Greene's recollection Christina lied about the most damning accusation she made in that book. If she lied about one thing what else has she lied about. And according to Billie there was a pattern of Christina lying.

[@Garsons-oq4lh]

More of Billie Greene's quote- "When Christina was at Chadwicks, she would tell some lies. Like the lengths Joan would go through to see that she had everything to get back to school. Shoes, dresses, etc. I don’t know what Christina would do with them between Brentwood and school, but she would arrive with a couple of beat up, old dresses and the call would come from Chadwicks. “Couldn’t you send this girl one decent thing to wear?” I got Christina in my office one day and said, “Christina, what did you do? All those things we picked out and packed and got ready for you that you chose?” She said, “I gave them to my friends,” and I said, “What does this do? Make you a hero with your friends?” and she said, “No, I just wanted to.” I said, “Don’t you know what you do to your mother when you make her look cruel and evil and selfish?” and she said, “No, it’s just something I like to do. I like to give my clothes away.” On more than one occasion I found Christina to be an opportunist, dishonest and distorting everything, every single actions of her mother.” **Credit to ChristinaCrawfordLied**

[@peggyfillmore1971]

I've been abused by my father , I can assure you as a child my father was an angel to everyone else but sexually,mentally and physically abused me . He was very good at not showing it in front of others .He threatened to kill me or put me in a girl's home if I ever told. I confronted him a year before he died ,he disowned me. I have no regrets , it started my path to recovery .🤷

[@mmastoryline623]

So proud of you

[@lindalove7193]

It would have been even more satisfying to slap the pure de shit out of him. Now, disown that!

[@Gen-yh1jz]

You didn’t deserve to be treated like that but I am glad you are on the path to recovery.

[@carolannemckenzie3849]

I hope you're finding peace Peggy. I feel your pain. When I confronted my mother about putting me in hospital as a toddler with broken arms and legs, she had the nerve to threaten me with a solicitor. The day she finally committed suicide is the day I began to heal but I will always hear the scars. Love to you

[@petertornabeni602]

Learn from his mistakes. Be better with your children, I know you will. GOD bless you and your family ……….

[@bbrbbr-on2gd]

It's interesting people were more interested in humanizing Joan Crawford, more than empathizing with why her daughter would have these feelings to begin with. Yeah Joan probably went through abuse in Hollywood and else where, but she still perpetuated some form of abuse against a child. This should've been a story from the survivors pov, with the understanding that we the audience can never truly know what happened.

[@angelcitygirl]

Because Christina has spent her life living off a dead woman. I wish she had taken some of her money that she got from suing her sisters, and her many "anniversary " mommie dearest books and seen a psychiatrist. She needs help.

[@bbrbbr-on2gd]

@@angelcitygirl I mean, this bitterness doesn't just foster itself. I think if more people cared about Christina when it counted, she'd be in a much more stable place where she could move on with her life.

[@bbrbbr-on2gd]

@THISIS THEGIRL That's a big claim you should probably back up with evidence...

[@blkplaguelmc]

that's because people are star fuckers and they dont care. i mean, rather than empathize with the kids claims, people defended michael jackson for years. that's just one of countless examples too. just a very extreme one

[@abbim2531]

@@angelcitygirl Girl, if my abusive mom was a big name figure, you better believe I'd write an public expose too. And, hey, if I could make some money on the traumatic abuse I suffered as a kid, I'd already be doing it.

[@GoldieSC]

I can't believe the Razzies nominated Mara Hobel for Worst Supporting Actress. She was a kid, and I think she did a pretty decent job all things considering. That fact leaves such a bad taste in my mouth.

[@slc2466]

I thought she was pretty fantastic, especially while keeping up with Faye in those harrowing battle scenes.

[@carsfan1995]

Roger Yeah but Faye also wrote her own book, she's going to be bias in her account of events.

[@mcwyman7928]

Keep in mind that the razzies, at that time, was just one guy's Oscar night party with friends. I don't think they'd pull that today since it's an actual "institution".

[@jordanabeaulieu2530]

goldie. That scene where *Joan Crawford* just flung all of Christina's clothes from her closet to the floor and told her to pick them up. She may have been a great actress but not as a human being!

[@maternalheart66]

@@jordanabeaulieu2530 Joan Crawford didn't di that... Faye Dunaway did

[@viscousgoo2021]

*Mommie Dearest made me realize I lived in an abusive home* . As crazy as it sounds, much of what takes place in that film was normal and in many ways paled in comparison to my own home life. I finally figured out what I was experiencing was "abuse" by watching how other people responded to the movie. I literally sat at the table for hours because I refused to eat corn, was punched, slapped, and strangled by both my mom and dad, and isolated from any and all relationships outside of that home by being punished non-stop for most of my life. It wasn't the only influence that made me start to realize what was going on, but it had a huge impact on me. When you are abused like this, it's so thorough and all encompassing that you literally have no idea what is "normal" and healthy. _Real_ abuse takes place in plain sight. Frequently, some of the most admired and outwardly selfless people are the best abusers. If you reach out as I did, you will be shamed and told that you should be grateful. Fortunately, I survived and was able to break free from their control almost 15 years ago. If you're struggling with this, you are not alone. There is a light outside of that dark place. Seek out the people who bring warmth and light to your life. And, get the hell away from the people who do not.

[@unasperanza9803]

So sorry for your terrible childhood I can see that you have overcome this and what a victory for you. Your best revenge is to have a happy life!!

[@mistiroberts1576]

Once in the 8th grade my mom slapped me across the face because she didnt like my hair. That was the first time she ever hit me in the face. I punched her right in the mouth so it was also the last time she ever hit me. When I tell people that they always act indignant and say "I would never hit my mom" but I would just challenge them to live with mine for a week.

[@maggiejane6327]

Oh my goodness, just read what you wrote and am so sorry your parents treated you like this .. 😞 .. heartfelt condolences .. God bless you 🙏😊

[@angieoxford7092]

I watched this movie for the first time as a teenager. I never found the scene overacting or campy. My parents weren’t abusive, but it still resonated with me as terrifying, not funny. My husband says it perfectly embodied his abusive, narcissistic mother & grandmother and the types of tirades they would go on when he was growing up.

[@seameology]

I never found t funny, either. I had a great mother but it reminded e of my stepdad and step mother.

[@angieoxford7092]

@@seameology I’m sorry that it mirrored anything you had to deal with irl. I was lucky in that regard.

[@Kynan123321]

The zoom in on “your child has weaknesses” broke me.

[@sergiovela7686]

The shady sound from drag race played in my mind at that moment

[@roter13]

I don't care what anyone says, Faye killed that role in "Mommie Dearest".

[@FreyaEinde]

She’s really good as one of those crazy a-type people who has to have everything just so. I don’t get the reviews where they say she has no humanity,but also I guess some people have never been terrorized by a narcissist or have dealt with that volatile surreality of dealing with that sort of person. I mean the behavior is so beyond the realms of what is inappropriate that the reaction when you’re divorced from it is to laugh, but when that person has power over you they get to set what’s appropriate even when they’re obviously and outlandishly wrong, and having that as your reality is bizarre in a way most people who haven’t been abused can appreciate or really understand.

[@wingatemose1182]

@roter13 , The roll of Joan Crawford aka Mommie Dearest , almost killed Faye Dunaway's, acting career forever and It did for years.

[@Elleoaqua]

@@wingatemose1182 it's a far cry from Bonnie n Clyde

[@ilovemycat69]

She was. Amazing !! N Joan Crawford. Was so beautiful !!

[@jonasabry9099]

Agreed.

[@BeGlamourlicious]

I believe the daughter. A child is born loving your own mother. She has to do really bad things for a child to hate her.

[@meganstewart6318]

She wasn’t her biological mother

[@kiwi1761]

@@meganstewart6318 Doesnt matter

[@meganstewart6318]

@@kiwi1761 does

[@meganstewart6318]

@@kiwi1761 does

[@provence3]

@@meganstewart6318 no

[@sharonf468]

I met Christina Crawford after the publication of her 2nd book. A lovely woman who had paid a high price to tell her truth. Hugging her brought me to tears because I had walked a similar path in dealing with a psychotic mother. It broke my heart at what Christina has been through. I couldn't finish watching this video. Sorry, it was just too painful.

[@Garsons-oq4lh]

Oh please Sharon you are blind. Christina lied about the most damning accusation she made in her book which was being strangled by Joan. She lied about one just what else has she lied about. Well she also lied in her book about Joan’s last words spoken to her caregiver. There is no telling what else. And it's called research.

[@serenawilliams6138]

You met her once at a book signing, so of course she SEEMED nice. Plenty of people also thought that her mother was absolutely lovely in every way, although she had issues that contradict what they thought of her as well. However, Christina has absolutely exaggerated her story for profit -she’s been living off the proceeds for over 40 years! Because Joan could be and typically was a lovely woman. Her other daughters absolutely adored her and insisted that she was a wonderful mother. She might have had a more difficult dynamic with Christina, but it isn’t a black and white situation with Christina being totally innocent in spite of Joan’s evil behavior . Christina leaves out all of the privileges and advantages that she was privy to in order to sensationalize the negative things and is far from being entirely on point. I don’t know how anyone can even read “Mommie Dearest” and not be able to perceive the gross exaggerations and outright lies throughout. In fact, the publishers have had to edit out material in several printings because there was easy to debunk untrue information presented as fact that was hurtful to other people who were still alive. It probably couldn’t even get published today because Christina Crawford is hardly a reliable narrator. The memoir might be”her truth” but that’s not necessarily THE truth. She has successfully manipulated the public into seeing her as a beleaguered victim even though “Mommie Dearest” makes the National Enquirer seem like a sophisticatedly factual periodical.

[@sharonf468]

@@serenawilliams6138 it wasn't a book signing it was contact over a number of days. Also, if you haven't lived with a crazy mother you can't comprehend that kind of behavior. I have. If she lied, shame on her. If not, let's give her a break.

[@serenawilliams6138]

@@sharonf468 I have lived with a crazy mother and a crazy father and I do know and I also know what it is like when people don’t believe victims of abuse. However, Christina is not one of them. She is a known liar with a scorched earth agenda. You should watch and read a few accounts of the many people who knew them both at the same time. Nannies, secretaries, business people and family members all have said that Christina is the one making things up. People who also knew Christina professionally have said that she was a nightmare to work with-totally independent from Joan too. I know a stage manager who worked with her who said that she was terrible to work with and didn’t follow directions. They had to fire her. People who lived WITH Joan and Christina have all said that she totally distorted the truth, including all of Joan’s other kids! Even her son’s daughter has come to Joan’s defense. People have told exactly what did happen and Christina is someone who isn’t reliable or trustworthy. She grossly exaggerated things and made mountains out of molehills. I have personally caught her in SEVERAL lies over the years and even as a kid I knew some things she said were untrue. Today I understand it better and think that she is a classic narcissist and she has propped herself up at her mother’s expense. I understand why some vulnerable people who have suffered a abuse still believe her but they have hitched their horse to the wrong wagon. She is not a good example of someone who has suffered and she is vindictive and her book is a deliberate hatchet job.

[@sharonf468]

​@@serenawilliams6138 Thank you for the information. It's a hot button topic on all sides!

[@rachelvaupel6915]

I have such mixed feelings about this. I definitely think that Joan was a tough woman in a tough industry, simultaneously trying to raise a family, have a career, hold her own against sexist and abusive pigs in Hollywood, and reconcile her own childhood in poverty. However that doesn't excuse her behavior towards her children, who now have to carry on with the scars of abuse they couldn't understand and never deserved. This really highlights that the reasons never justify the actions when it comes to child abuse (or any form of abuse).

[@sandrasorice8455]

cathy killed herself but u wont hear anything bout that

[@sandrasorice8455]

sorry correction Cindy

[@jonathanhunter8076]

@@sandrasorice8455 theres literally no evidence that cindy crawford killed herself unless you have some 14 year old evidence to prove it? and if she did then why wouldnt cathy say anything even though she only died last year

[@sandrasorice8455]

@@jonathanhunter8076 how do u no it was 14 yrs ago

[@jonathanhunter8076]

@@sandrasorice8455 because all records show that cindy died in 2007?

[@YoMama9021]

I took the film for what it was. Absolutely terrifying. Period.

[@harperstacey9604]

More terrifying than a stephen king novel.

[@dennismclaurin1487]

What kind of movie was Mommie Dearest? Ans. A hit--and a whack.

[@michaelchristian5089]

The film was criticised as being overly "camp"... ....but Joan herself was, like many Hollywood actresses of her era, a queen of "camp!"

[@LeolaGlamour]

Exactly, Joan was camp, and I bet she acted just like that in real life. Most of her "acting" is just her being herself, great actress but you can tell she was a dramatic, manipulative person.

[@heywoodjablome7535]

Only late in her career, as in post-Baby Jane late in her career, did she really become camp, with roles in Strait Jacket, Berserk, The Karate Killers, and Trog. Some of her performances in the 30s through arguably the mid 50s come off as extremely natural and modern. Grand Hotel, The Women, Strange Cargo, A Woman’s Face, Mildred Pierce, Humoresque, Johnny Guitar, The Story of Esther Costello, etc. I’d hardly call those “camp”

[@LeolaGlamour]

@@heywoodjablome7535 Her early stuff before she was polished was very over the top.

[@heywoodjablome7535]

@@LeolaGlamour I suppose you could say that, like in her pre-code stuff like “Paid”, “Rain”, and “This Modern Age”, and a few others that came after it like “The Gorgeous Hussy” (ugh), but I think for the most part her career wasn’t very campy. If anything, while I do think she was the superior actress between the two, Bette Davis had more roles that I’d consider camp.

[@MsSugar1209]

Even Mildred Pierce is high camp. I've seen plenty of interviews with Joan. She was indeed The Queen of Camp 24/7.

[@Liesel925]

My siblings and I would stay in bed in the mornings and try to feel if there was tension in the air so we'd know what we were waking up to. She was always screaming at us, we never did anything good enough. When the phone rang, she answered in the most cheerful voice, and would laugh and giggle like she was the happiest, most wonderful woman in the world. Reading the comments I'm surprised so many experienced the same. I believe Christina.

[@Garsons-oq4lh]

Think about it. Christina provided no witnesses to corroborate her claims (that are within her book). For example, Christina made the accusation that Joan nearly strangled her to death (in June 1953) if not for someone in the house that day to stop it. Christina put a name to this woman in her 20th anniversary edition as Billie. At no point on any of Christina's many television interviews did she offer this woman (in person on stage, as a call-in, or even a signed written anything from her) as a witness to corroborate her claim. There was also no solo print or television interview from this woman corroborating Christina's claim either. *This woman had worked for Joan and was not dead in 1978* Also of note is that Christina made no accusation of violence in her 1960 interviews with Redbook magazine and Mike Wallace, nor in her 1978 court documents contesting Joan's will.

[@autobotdiva9268]

covert narc moms are something else #nocontact

[@BaileySarian]

This was so great. I enjoy your channel so much!!

[@umamipaneer]

Omg Bailey!!!!! The fact that you watch these videos is simply ICONIC. Such a queen. P.S. I'm obsessed with your murder, mysteries and makeup series, you make my work drive so much fun!

[@rebelbelle1039]

Ahh this is dope haha

[@redd7133]

This channel definitely has some great content!!!

[@t.m.a.3665]

We 💜U2 Bailey Sarian!

[@t.m.a.3665]

Thank You for this video! This was great !

[@Amalia-489]

“There are weaknesses in every script and every story… like your child, a child has weakness” 😳 uhm yeah lady. That’s why children need to be nourished with compassion, patience, love, and stability.

[@Garsons-oq4lh]

Billie Greene -Former secretary to Joan Crawford (and who is mentioned by name by Christina in one of her MD anniversary editions) "When Christina was at Chadwicks, she would tell some lies. Like the lengths Joan would go through to see that she had everything to get back to school. Shoes, dresses, etc. I don’t know what Christina would do with them between Brentwood and school, but she would arrive with a couple of beat up, old dresses and the call would come from Chadwicks. “Couldn’t you send this girl one decent thing to wear?” I got Christina in my office one day and said, “Christina, what did you do? All those things we picked out and packed and got ready for you that you chose?” She said, “I gave them to my friends,” and I said, “What does this do? Make you a hero with your friends?” and she said, “No, I just wanted to.” I said, “Don’t you know what you do to your mother when you make her look cruel and evil and selfish?” and she said, “No, it’s just something I like to do. I like to give my clothes away.” On more than one occasion I found Christina to be an opportunist, dishonest and distorting everything, every single actions of her mother.” **ChristinaCrawfordLied**

[@Courtanie]

@@Garsons-oq4lh So you believe a no doubt well paid employee who would want to continue their work and upkeep their reputation among Hollywood royalty over that of an abused child who told a story that countless other abused children have related to for decades? Shame on you.

[@Garsons-oq4lh]

@@Courtanie So cute of you. The interview was long after the fact in 1980! Billie (a she) was only employeed for a year or two around the time of 1953. Again Billie is mentioned by her first name in Christina’s later anniversary edition of MD so good luck arguing she was a made up person.

[@ForrestFox626]

​@@Garsons-oq4lhThe dude didn't even refer to Billie as a he

[@Mai-uu8yh]

I’m so tired of people trying to humanize narcissistic parents

[@harperstacey9604]

Narcissistic people desperately need help.

[@cjb8010]

@V J wow. 81. Seems remarkable. Time passes for all, I guess.

[@coffeecrimegal5968]

However in-human they may seem, at one point or before the tipping point they were as you call simply “human!” It’s more what exactly caused them to become this way is what is appealing and actually mutually exclusive to their humanity!

[@DominicNJ73]

That's the point of the discussion around the book, was Joan really like that or was it revenge. I used to take the movie and book as fact until I read comments from co-stars, co-workers and people who knew her personally and I was left wondering how much of it was true and how much of it was Christina trying to get even. Having an emotionally abusive mother myself I used to be angry with her and resent her a great deal until I became older and more mature and could recognize the damage her own abusive childhood did to her and how it reflected in her raising me.

[@lemonade_011]

@@harperstacey9604 aha

[@rejectedjeepers7317]

Living with a abusive mother and watching how faye could switch in scenes always affected me. There is alot of similarities to abuse as a child. My mom hated this movie and my dad wouldn't watch it but it so rang back to my childhood.

[@Garsons-oq4lh]

And so your story PROVES Joan Crawford abused her children.

[@ATLcentury334]

The real star, to me, of “Mommie Dearest”, has always been the house. What a set that was.

[@VJ-lo2pp]

That staircase.

[@ATLcentury334]

@@VJ-lo2pp, and the bathroom/closet.

[@Divalish.]

The pool, backyard and landscape, her bedroom and closet alone!!!! ... simply breathtaking 🤤🤤🤤🤤

[@midnightmilkman1]

Art deco entry & living room was to die for😍😍😍😍😍😍

[@MA7-6585]

And the front door was just dreamy! The window pane in the wire hanger scene, loved it! The bar in the living room just yummy!

[@zalz82]

I have NEVER seen this movie as campy. I’ve always thought it was brilliantly acted because this is EXACTLY how borderline narcissists act. It’s a perfect example of the hell kids go through with a parent like this. These types of people behave & react over dramatically by nature.

[@PR7-82]

For me the word camp 🏕 has to do with stereotypical gay guys 👬 and nothing to do with authentic femininity. Campness is basically a trans woman's interpretation of womanhood

[@zalz82]

Never thought of it that way but campy does refer to a state of being absurdly exaggerated, so that could definitely fit in line with a Drag Queen. Again, this movie is far from campy & is disturbingly accurate at how a Borderline narcissist is behind closed doors to their close ones.

[@lindac6919]

I don't think that's borderline. That's Narcissism.

[@cliffyhustle]

Shows you how good Faye Dunaway really was in her field.

[@darnellmajor8895]

@@zalz82 You could take this in two directions........One, Joan Crawford always had a ''campy style'' in most of her work. Even with films like Mildred Pierce and Johnny Guitar. Soooo MD could be grounded in her style. OR Christina's book itself may have been seen as a ''camp tale'' that couldn't be taken seriously. So I would say either theory is likely true.

[@jojodaigle9429]

My mother made that woman look like a saint. I so felt for christina

[@CMGin]

My heart goes out to you.

[@AliciaM5555]

💓

[@meghangriesemer1129]

I always believed Christina and felt bad for the flack she caught for telling her truth.

[@lustyleprechaun1963]

Ditto

[@hips1986]

Sorry to hear you had a traumatic childhood

[@notpub]

I was a big Joan fan. I loved her work. When MD came out, I was reluctant to see it. But I did. And as a kid who grew up with that kind of childhood, I found the film terrifying. Everyone else was cracking up in the theatre. For me, it was too close to home. I didn't get the joke. I found the film mesmerizing and traumatic. This analysis helped me understand how and why others labeled it as camp, a bit. Thanks!

[@gabbyb7347]

Does this mean that you will start talking about Razzie winning performances by women, too? I'm up for it.

[@veronicasaint5811]

Then she has to do a video about the Queen of Music and the Universe Madonna

A series about misunderstood performances that became Razzie winners? I'm up for it

[@kostajovanovic3711]

@ do you have specific roles in mind?

[@katherinemorelle7115]

@@kostajovanovic3711 Halle Berry in Catwoman would be good. She signed up to make a very different movie than what it ended up being, but was a really good sport about the Razzie. We do tend to love those actors that will come and accept their Razzie, and poke fun at themselves. Sandra Bullock did the same. Won an Oscar and a Razzie in the same week. And accepted both with grace and humour. We can’t help but to stan both Halle and Sandra for that.

[@veronicasaint5811]

@@katherinemorelle7115 Halle Berry got oscar only bc of her skin colour

[@amethystimagination3332]

This feels like a story with multiple sides, but Christina was definitely the scapegoat of the family.

[@FreyaEinde]

Definitely feels like a first pancake situation mixed in with my oldest daughter is partly my therapist and assistant that happens in a lot of families to me.

[@FreyaEinde]

@Brenda del Carmen Pulido Guajardo It was an example Brenda.

[@leifharmsen]

blacksheep, not scapegoat

[@fallenangel-do3iy]

This makes me sick this movie was supposed to be a way of confronting the issues of child abuse and people find this amusing? A women who would punish her children over the littlest thing, harsh punishments. I find it disgusting that people admire Joan Crawford after watching this movie. Going out dressed as her with wire coat hangers and little props of a kid Christine Crawford to beat on. This poor woman that was once a little girl by the name of Christine Crawford coming out about her tragic childhood abuse story and people are just mocking her story basically saying it's okay to abuse kids. Wherever Joan Crawford is in the after life I hope she burns to a crisp!

[@scienceannistyle7070]

@@leifharmsen I believe scapegoat is actually correct in this situation.

[@AirAnimeAngel]

I can understand camp and won`t get whether or not Faye Dunaway`s performance was an overexaggeration(in a negative sense of the word), but I cannot perceive how could people realistically watch "The hanger scene" and laugh. I watched it a few months back and with no previous experience with abuse, I still felt unnerved, bordering on uncomfortable just looking at those facial expressions alone.

[@Moonewitch]

Indeed! It's not funny at all!

[@user-xm3wd8tz6d]

It’s called that by people that are privileged enough in their life to never have experienced abuse.

[@serious22]

You have to have a sense of humor, something you self righteous woke kids are devoid of. This movie is over the top camp so context means a lot. I realize I'm wasting my time trying to reach a victim-culture 4th waver(I'm assuming). You guys know everything...

[@AirAnimeAngel]

@@serious22 “Shaun of the Dead”, “Rocky Horror Picture Show”, “The Dictator”, “Monty Python’s Life of Brian”, “Heathers”, “The Creep”... are all dark comedies(for me)and I love each and every one of them. I love dark, morbid humor more than most. If you found my generalization problematic, I apologize. However, I’m close to my mother and couple that with the fact that this performance, to me is malevolently convincing, I really found it(and many other people apparently) disturbing in a psychological sense. I’m glad you found fun in it. Plus, if this scene constitutes as ‘be all end all’ of dark humor, then I must say your dark humor is quite limited(I assume).Good day!

[@zero_foxpants]

@@serious22 For someone calling out perceived self righteousness you sure have a lot of labels for people you don't even know. Just sayin'. Also "woke" is spelled "empathetic", but that's a common mistake. 😉

[@cattuslavandula]

The way Mommy Dearest is filmed is just amazing. It really draws the viewer in to the era and Joan's world, while still showing Dunaway as Joan was shown in her films. Like that weird lighting of her face.

[@ibji]

Yo mama is so mean, when she saw Mommie Dearest, she was taking notes.

[@richmondrealingo7321]

This is dark.

[@grimawormtongue1404]

Hahahahahahahaha

[@floris.927]

Sounds like a Match Game question.

[@ROBYNMARKOW]

😅

[@SuperBigdude77]

😅😅

[@drella1775]

i am so grateful to see all the comments of others being understanding. i hate seeing the comments it’s “laughable” or “such bad acting” or “blown out of proportion” when you have a narcissistic mother, often the outbursts are as catatonic and ridiculous as shown in the film. but others wouldn’t know because that behavior is only shown behind closed doors. i feel very sorry so many others relate to this film, but it’s important we all use our voices to let those who don’t have that experience know, it is truly that bad. it’s not comically over the top, that’s damn near REAL. so thank y’all for being understanding or at the very least compassionate. this film is important because it truly shows what a narc is like alone. especially as the scapegoat or black sheep.

[@michelletaylor4654]

I never thought this movie was silly or campy. It terrified me. My grandparents raised me and my grandmother was always protective of old Hollywood stars, and I remember even she thought it was true. I thought Faye was Joan for a while after the movie too.

[@correypeta]

Yeah, I was scared of Faye when I was little.

[@helloxonsfan]

*I had a loving family. Thankfully, I never grew up in an abusive home. But after reading many of the comments, I can see how this movie wasn't camp for many people, but depicted real childhood trauma.* *That's all the more reason why this movie, & Faye Dunaway's fantastic performance should be admired & loved. She portrayed the terrorizing "monster" from the child's perspective perfectly.* *Every scene was a masterly, operatic tour-de-force of acting brilliance -- not camp, & certainly not **_incorrectly_** over-the-top!!! She should have been praised for her splendid performance, not ridiculed for it.* 👏 💪 🎥 🏆 ♥️

[@katherinebarlow6446]

There are parts of Mommy Dearest that do terrify me, legitimately.

[@skellymom]

Yes, because my mother really acted like the depiction of Crawford in this film. I was terrified watching this in the theatre, while everyone around me laughed.

[@yvonneclaes5208]

@@skellymom Ditto!

[@unclegumbald989]

“When I told you to call me that..... I wanted you to MEAN it....” 😳 Gawd, woman, DAYUM.

[@johnnyskinwalker4095]

it's a horror movie

[@ellenmarch3095]

@THISIS THEGIRL Not for those of us who have lived through anything even remotely similar. Try telling a traumatized WW2 vet that Saving Private Ryan is fiction.

[@bluest1524]

It is really bad form to rush to negate the experience of an abused child, just because you have a different experience, or ideal, about the parent. I think many folks who do fear it might happen to them one day.

[@brandonpage7087]

Agreed, & even though I doubt that every single thing Christina wrote about was 100% true, i do think that there was some truth, in there, especially after reading many comments on here, about real life abusive mothers, who were similar.

[@jayellevanderschoor1786]

I was adopted too and was always told I was inferior because of it!

[@cyyrious]

For the longest I thought Faye was actually Joan in the movie growing up she played the hell outta that role

[@auroramichelle5450]

Same!!!

[@harperstacey9604]

Faye dunaway was so convincing in the role.

[@taradickey1]

Me too... I still have to remind myself that's Faye Dunaway when I watch it. She was amazing

[@simplyjuannie5128]

That one guy nearly had a heart attack when Faye Dunaway showed up dressed like Joan Crawford, who had been passed away for some time.

[@setpunks13]

Thats so weird I thought the exact same thing. She terrified me

[@dememurphy7859]

They just weren't ready for this in the 80's!

[@auntiefan4202]

I had a mommy dearest style upbringing so it's always seemed very real to me. Today they would call her a narcissist with borderline personality disorder. Fun fact: I made the choice to have children and to not abuse them. So I don't really buy the excuse that because it was done to you that's just how you are. It's a daily fight. You have to want to do better and not just be a victim.

[@johnroth92]

This video has taken me back to the night I saw the movie, by myself in a Dallas theater. I looked over the movie ads in a Dallas newspaper and Faye Dunaway, in makeup as Joan Crawford, looked like my mother in real life. So, I was out the door to see what this movie was about. Up until that moment, I heard nothing about it. I remember the terror that overtook me watching Mommie Dearest. When the wire hanger scene appeared I remember thinking, with great confusion, they could have shot that scene in my bedroom. Yes, I was beaten with wire hangers by my crazed mother, in my early teens, after she walked into my bedroom early on a Saturday morning. Being out with friends dressed in a sport coat the previous evening, I had carelessly hung it on a wire hanger. Even the part where the double doors were flung open, my mother turning on the closet light, standing there with her hands on her waist, staring intently into the closet, somehow knowing that she would find something amiss. The scene is totally authentic right down to her pushing all the clothes aside on the rod to focus on the offending item. Even the phrase "no more wire hangers" were her exact words as she beat me with a handful of wire hangers. Mommie Dearest lived in real life in the 1960s, 70s and early 80s. Anyone reading this, born in the 80s or later, must be confused as to why I would be dressed up, in coat and tie on a weekend night. Incredibly, that is the environment I was raised. I didn't own a pair of jeans until my mid 20s. Insanity by today's standards. I called my sister when I got home to tell her about the bathroom scene where cleanser was shook all over the tile floors and counter. The exact words of "Now clean it up" were screamed by my mother. To this day, I'm in my 60s, when I see a can of cleanser, any brand, I hear my mother's shrill words. For some reason this is the recurring nightmare that I think of, trigger by any can of cleanser. There is so much more child abuse, I could write my own book and I seriously considered it, with the title 'In Defense Of Faye Dunaway'. She is one of my favorite actresses. My sister and I felt really bad for her, given our life experience. What a bad rap she got. People who have not experienced this level of child abuse simply can't relate that this could possibly be true. I assure you it is real, right down to the white face cream and identical hair band. I had made peace with my mother, who had a stroke about a decade before she died. The stroke changed her personality. She became the kind, understanding mother that I so desperately needed in my youth. In this process, we were able to talk about her hellish behavior, although I never mentioned specifics. It was all because of the treatment she got from my bipolar father. She said in the first six months of her marriage, my father would throw any money she needed on the kitchen floor as he screamed "Now pick it up, before I change my mind." I thought well, now I know where "Now clean it up" that she screamed at my sister came from. I went into the real estate business with my father. He dropped some choice phrases on me like "You're dumber than I thought you were." He knew that my primary financial partner was a man with a $700 million net worth. My reply was "Funny, none of my financial partners have said that, not anything close." A very long story short, I had to sue my father to separate our business interests. I never spoke to him again. He died about 24 years later. So, after spending 11 years with three different psychiatrists, I am no longer haunted by the abuse from my parents, except by any can of cleanser. I suspect that Joan Crawford's nemesis were the CEOs of the Hollywood Studios she worked for. Just last week a lady in her 70s called me for a weekly chat we have about our real estate deals. In that conversation she said, "this ain't my first rodeo." Mommie Dearest is embedded into the social fabric of our lives, for as long as all of us are alive.

[@LunarHexagon]

I’m so sorry. Seems us Dallas kids at that time had a lot of shit to go though. (You know, Joan was from Texas and had a really dark upbringing too). My father was more like Joan than my mother, and it was fucking hard, especially being a small child from Mesquite. I feel you deeply. 💗

[@johnroth92]

@V J Karma is very real. And it's alive, coming into people's lives around the clock.

[@lisag.4054]

You should write a book. Seriously.

[@theorderofthebees7308]

🙏

[@kimberly9129]

We should team up and write that book together. My childhood was a living hell as well. Haven't spoke to my mother in almost 40 years and I've never missed her.

[@bb1111116]

From the review of Bob Thomas’ book on Crawford shown in the video. “...he quotes one of Joan’s friends; ‘I’m sure that Joan loved those children. But something, probably out of her own miserable childhood, drove her to discipline them unreasonably.’” * Disciplining someone “unreasonably” is a euphemism for child abuse. - More from the review of Thomas’ book in the video; “And in the end we see what permanent damage Joan inflicted on her oldest daughter. She made of her the sort of person who believes that revenge brings satisfaction, that writing a book such as Mommie Dearest would, for all its protestations of love, finally settle the score.” * Crawford has some important responsibility for what happened to Christina and why she wrote that book. Christina in writing her book is exposing that abuse. And here we have the final paragraph which misses the point of the victim / abuser relationship. “Still one would think that anyone who could muster whatever it takes to write a book about a given subject, could take the next step and arrive at an understanding of that subject.” - Here is a criticism of the victim in telling her story which has familiar overtones. Why is this victim so focused and negative about abuse? Can’t they come to a better understanding of the abuser? Or basically, why can’t they move beyond the trauma and give equal time in understanding why someone beat and terrorized you? * While a loud complaint about physical abuse towards a woman by a man is fully able to be heard and believed, physical abuse by a woman towards her children is more difficult for some to accept. I’ve seen it in discussions of domestic violence even by professionals where some have a blind spot towards seeing child abuse clearly. - It’s too hard to do for many. For much of the general public it’s so uncomfortable that nervous laughter is the result. It cannot be fully believed by many who would instantly be sympathetic to stories by women who were abused by men. It’s embedded in the general psyche of society that mothers are loving and nurturing to their children. The mythos that this must be true is heightened by the fantasy of Hollywood for a famous, glamorous movie star mother. So comes the focus of the discussion moving from the victim to the abuser, Joan Crawford and trying to excuse what she did. It must be the result of the patriarchy says one. Another says Christina must have imagined it. The underlying message; Joan has to be sympathized and must be innocent in some way. She isn’t according to her friend as mentioned above. The reality is that over a million children in the US are abused each year by their parents, including by their mothers, to such an extent that child protective services has to get involved. About 1/2 million children have to be placed in foster care by CPS. But the recognition of that painful reality is a long way from being realized by much of the general public.

[@Cat-tastrophee]

Very well-put, thank you. I think that child-abuse reporting is severely underrepresentative of reality. My mother would check me for bruises before sending me off to school. Most never suspected a thing.

[@bluester7177]

@@Cat-tastrophee I disagree that it misses the point, I've been abused not to the extent of this movie but I heard a lot of awful things and was beaten since I was a small child to my late teens and by going through therapy and knowing about my mother depression, understanding why she did the things she did, knowing about her marriage and the she was also being abused made me get past it, because I had context and I finally could understand why it happened and that it wasn't my fault, it's was not anything that I did, I think it's different for everyone but I don't think the quote misses the point exactly, it's just a point that doesn't fit everyone.

[@HotaruRea]

@@bluester7177 I think you missed the original poster's point on why this review and that comment specifically misses the point. It prescribes the "right way" to be a victim of child abuse or a recovering survivor. It implies that Christina HAS to examine her mother's motivations and triggers to be a good, believable, sympathetic victim. That Christina's account is not worthy of being heard or believed because she's not sympathizing or psychoanalyzing her abuser. It helps some survivors (like you) to do that but it doesn't for others and dismissing a victim/survivor because they don't do that is egregious and wrong.

[@adrianapignolo]

I absolutely agree

[@katina6958]

Very good points. I think for the general public as the audience or reader, we want to know why Joan would abuse her children, but that doesn't mean we should expect the victim/survivor of her abuse, Christina, to do the same.

[@amybrown8305]

In regards to the comments about trying to have a serious discussion about child abuse and falling short, I remember the first time I saw this movie as kid. The scene in the bathroom unfortunately resonated with me as a child. My father would have me scrub the floors with comit, which would physically make me gag and one day was angry that I had not cleaned it well enough and threw the can at my head, hitting me. So to me I can understand to some that these scenes may seem comical, but others have actually experienced this type of rage from a parent. It has taken me a long time to be able to see that scene without thinking back to a time where I was scared of doing the wrong thing, at the wrong time.

[@debbiechia]

yes, several scenes triggered me 2.

[@pythonkatie1985]

I always found it strange that Christina got so much flack for writing the book after Joan died, but B.D. got just as much for writing her book while Bette was alive.

[@geupelboi]

Yes. I've always thought the exact same thing. People will say that Christina should have written the book while JC was still alive so Joan could have had the opportunity to respond. Then, people will slam BD Hyman is criticized because she didn't wait until her mom was dead to write the book. You can't win for losing. I think a lot of people just like to complain d judge and see the worst side of human nature. No matter what the facts are.

[@bradleyscarton3931]

They got flack because other siblings disputed their claims. Joan Crawford’s other daughters tell a much different story of Joan. The same applies to Bette Davis’ son. They spoke highly of their mothers and how loving they were.

[@pythonkatie1985]

@@bradleyscarton3931 I was speaking of them getting flack for the timing, not the subject matter. But I appreciate the input.

[@vanyadolly]

@@bradleyscarton3931 That's usually the case in families where there's a scapegoat. Also Christina's younger siblings were practically babies when she was shipped off to boarding school. They wouldn't have any idea what went on in that house between Joan and the older siblings. Her brother supported her.

[@heywoodjablome7535]

Well, I think it’s a little of 2 things. The first being, the obvious, fans and general audiences have a strong aversion to hearing that their idols did bad things, and will come up with whatever excuse they can to discredit the “whistleblower”, for lack of a better word. For Joan, the easiest excuse is that she wasn’t around to tell her story, because her friends and coworkers backed up Christina, whole for B.D., the easiest excuse is that she slandered her mother while she was there to see it. But another, I think, is the difference between how Christina and B.D. wrote about their parents. Christina’s account, has credibility behind it, and there’s not much there to craft an argument that Christina wrote it for any other gain besides to tell her story (at least in the time period immediately after both books were published). B.D., on the other hand, does have ulterior motives to write the book, and has widely been discredited.

[@Sarah-hc6kj]

I had no idea this movie was considered campy. It terrified me as a child. I think the lens is very different when you see sparks of truth in the adults around you even though the performance is considered hyperbolic. This movie will always be a horror classic for me.

[@myozbubble]

I have to wonder what would posses people to think that a movie about abuse would be pigeonholed as campy and even laugh at the horrible scenes. To me, that's sick.

[@dee-deerichman9181]

What does "campy" mean??

[@ethelhoose1196]

I agree she was a scary person

[@tomsaltsman]

NOTE ON WIRE HANGERS: I had them as a kid in the early sixties. One of them rusted on a white shirt and ruined it. You couldn't get the stain out for nothing!

[@BlayzMonet]

It also makes creases in odd spots on your clothes. My grandma would put a few sheets of newspaper on them to prevent both. I buy plastic lol waay easier

[@anonnyanonymous4800]

I’ve also had the sharp hook end pierce expensive cashmere sweaters making holes when it snagged it by accident

[@pikemeredith5604]

I've often wondered if Joan didn't like wire hangers in the house why were they there or who put them there? This makes one think!!!

[@valalava1]

oh so that's why? I've never seen the movie and until now I didn't really know what it was about but I always thought it was related to abortion trauma or something along those lines

[@princessdancer05]

Thanks for the explanation - never knew why the wire hangers were such a problem lol (always had plastic coated hangers)

[@stefanol4886]

LGBT people by default find themselves at the receiving end of all kinds of abuse for simply being who they are - but their reaction to it with humor and gusto and caricature is sublimely cathartic! Looking the dark in the eye and standing their ground by infusing it with light.

[@Attmay]

Faye is the abusive one and she attacked a gay man.

[@js7dragon]

She promises and delivers. We have to stan!

[@kostajovanovic3711]

Just love, don't stan

[@ledwards273]

@@kostajovanovic3711 exactly

[@jamiehenson4839]

Maybe this movie wasn’t taken seriously in the 80s, but decades later it is. Dunaway did a wonderful job of playing this iconic role. It really shows that most actors aren’t valued during their time. I’ll never forget this movie

[@LucyLioness100]

It’s better than her role in “SuperGirl” that came shortly after this; course that still isn’t her doing because the script for said superhero movie isn’t very good

[@jessyjulie5506]

I think faye dunaway is still alive

[@jamiehenson4839]

@@jessyjulie5506 she is, but the 80s was the peak of her career.

[@lorenepperson2678]

Thing Is Public Didn't Want To See Joan Crawford According To The Book "Mommies Dearest" They Don't Think Of Celebrities As. People I Didn't Know They Think Of There Celebrities As Property Even In Death Less Im Wrong

[@xazimir4266]

She’s a nasty woman in person though - yuck - I met and once and ughhh - icky. No way Jose ! I can’t stand the energy there! Totally negative and creepy

[@ErestuPedro]

if she was latina she would be praised by her performance on this movie. i grew up with brazilian and mexican novelas, so it took me some time to understand the controversy with faye's acting. fernanda montengro is the biggest actress of my country and she does ''serious movies'', she can even play shakespeare characters in theatre and no one thinks she's less of an actress because of her novelas.

[@jeonghansupremacist4354]

disse tudo

[@JenniferBrigitteOpticalVortex]

Fernanda should have won an Oscar

[@anthonyL1995]

I think it be an interesting argument that had this movie been produced as a play it would have been a big Tony contender. It's a theatrical performance not a Hollywood performance. I’d also argue that the performance was more a caricature of the roles that Crawford played. In the same vane as all those bad Marilyn Monroe TV movies that have her playing Loreleigh or her How to Marry a Millionaire character over who she was as a person.

[@ari3lz3pp]

The fact is it's a serious role. Idk if you are saying it's comedic. I watched Mexican novelas as a young girl but I didn't take most of it seriously. Also aren't those all fiction? Mommie Dearest is showcasing how real abuse happens. It comes off as silly and dramatic in many ways but if you've ever witnessed that kind of abuse by someone with certain mental I'll esses that's really how it goes. Some kids end up killed by their parent in those situations. I do think Far did a good job but it's not a comedy.

[@ErestuPedro]

@@ari3lz3ppi'm not. i'm talking about the over the top acting. some novelas also talk about serious issues, but with very exaggerated acting. just like in mommie dearest.

[@richardmcleod1930]

Christina Crawford had to submit the book she wrote "Mommie Dearest" 4 times before it was approved for publication. The book in order to be approved had to have exaggerated events in the life of Joan Crawford;s children, which 2 of the children denied occurred. The book is an exploitation novel written to sell effectively and then to make a movie making a lot of money for a lot of people. Child abuse exists but in no way as expressed in the book "Mommie Dearest".

[@shorty94ism]

When I was in 5th grade I came home from school and my mom was asleep. At least I thought she was but I went to use the bathroom and then I hear her stomping down the hallway. She gets in front of the restroom door and she had in her hands some new clothes she had bought me and in the other hand she had a knife. She screamed at me that if I didn’t want to wear them she’ll “thrown them away and cut them up”. I cried and said I was sorry and saying no mommy please. She just kept repeating herself and finally walked away and went to her room. I sat there and cried. I eventually got up and went to my room but I didn’t have a bed because my parents were hoarders also. I was only able to sleep in bed with them. So in my room all I had was a few toys of my own, my fathers piles and piles of tools and my mothers boxes of jewelry and clothes. I remember just sitting in a corner i cleaned for myself and crying till I fell asleep. This is one of the many episodes my mother had. Abuse does happen. Even in Hollywood.

[@tifftaffy6062]

It is so terrible what you has to go through, I know how you feel because Ive experienced things like this as well. It’s truly horrifying. I hope one day that you and I both will be able to forget the past forever.

[@lovingAllMe]

Thank for sharing your story.

[@stefanol4886]

I also had abusive father with probable mental issues - this helped me, The Three Hs: HURT, HEAL, HELP others going through the same thing. And yes, all three Hs can be happening at the same time. 😇

[@misskatiescarlett6395]

Oh, this brought back a horrible memory from my childhood. My mother threatened to cut up a white turtleneck top I had, I can't remember what provoked her. It was frightening!

[@SFoureman]

"Nobody but God will know what went on between that mother and daughter." No. Joan Crawford and Christina knew how Joan treated Tina. Christina told her experience. She broke the barrier-of-stigma by telling her experience. She paved the way for abused children to speak their truth. ...instead of having to live in that mire---silanced and alienated.

[@thatoneweirdkidthatyoudisl6723]

Are you really tryna argue with that right now

[@Ashbrash1998]

@Chantel Gangi It's her name though, she can keep it or change it if she wants.

[@wendylederer367]

That’s bullshit! There were people around who saw things but they just kept quiet because that’s how it was back then. People on the payroll are not going to say anything.

[@ChristinaCrawfordLied]

Christina Crawford Lied

[@gerrymorales]

I met Faye Dunaway at some random event at 111 Minna in San Francisco. I nor anyone knew she was gonna be there, it wasn't on the program and it was a young SF (straight) tech crowd, so no one made anything about an Oscar winning living legend from the 70's in their midst. I gathered up the nerve to meet and intro myself and thank her for getting me through my adolescence and I was FULLY prepared to be snapped at or dismissed or told to go away. It was the most serene, memorable interaction with any human being I ever had, let alone one with a Hollywood actress. I loved her BEFORE Mommie Dearest so all I wanted to tell her about was Network. To this day, I want to cry about how wonderful an experience it was. If Faye Dunaway has a reputation for being a bitch, consider the context people. You don't survive or get through a stint as a successful Actress in one of the most mysognistic, toxic and dangerous work cultures imaginable by being a milquetoast wallflower. If people think Faye Dunaway is a bitch GOOD. That's probably exactly the way she likes it.

[@TheNordicharps]

ĺĺj

[@davidcarrol1882]

Agree. That last creature that complained that Faye threw a hairbrush at him should have considered it an honor! She doesn't throw tantrums or a hairbrush at just anybody! There are way to many Sissy-la-la's that walk among us.

[@dougdoesall]

Camp is a release and relief from the over the top seriousness of life, too. Life is so outrageously heinous that one sometimes needs to either spin out of orbit in fear, or spin out of orbit in laughter at the insanity of life.

[@robbiduncan9823]

The gays are ETERNALLY GRATEFUL!

[@robbiduncan9823]

@Jarred Knox but ofc!😉

[@jamesfox2579]

Faye... should be ETERNALLY grateful!!!😁

[@johnnyskinwalker4095]

😆

[@djwalkerfemaledj]

The gays Faye Dunaway is a homophobic ,she got sued by her assistant for anti gay comments🤔

[@amr_12_]

Barbara please!

[@jessicaxhanning2111]

Its not a far reach to think Crawford was like this in private. My mother was.. And it was rough.

[@Garsons-oq4lh]

@Jessica Xhanning In CHRISTINA CRAWFORD'S memoir "Mommie Dearest" she wrote of an incident whereby she ALLEGES Joan Crawford strangled her after she returned home from boarding school for summer vacation in June 1953. When Christina wrote of this allegation, she stated Joan had "a look in her eyes that will never be erased from my memory." After this ALLEGED altercation, Christina was sent immediately back to boarding school. Christina published "Mommie Dearest" in October 1978. Nearly simultaneously to her writing this FRAUDULENT memoir, Christina was court ordered to be questioned in an UNDER-OATH deposition by Joan Crawford's estate in February 1978. During her UNDER-OATH, court-ordered deposition, Christina is specifically questioned about this incident, to which she responded: "I don't know what you are referring to," and continues to evade the questions regarding this incident. In addition to Christina's complete, on the record, CONTRIDICTION of this event, the EYE-WITNESS to this event came forward in 1981 to confirm Christina LIED in her book. That EYE-WITNESS is Billie Greene, She was Joan's assistant at the time. Greene stated in her unpublished interview: "I believe I'm quoted as saying 'Stop, you'll kill her."...I can tell you that I've never seen any discipline towards Christina or the other children that I would call out of control. There was not brutality that night." (Greene's full interview is in-depth and REVEALING) *Credit to ChristinaCrawfordLied facebook.*

[@jessicaxhanning2111]

@@Garsons-oq4lh it speaks volumes of the type of mother she must have been, to have her own daughter brought to court in that way. I’m not saying it’s complete truth, I’m also not saying it’s complete lie. My mother is so controlling. She usually fabricates a story that discredits me and /or harms my line of defense in most instances. She is also a victim that craves ever-growing attention and need... she is a diva, she has to be perfection. She is ocd. She is an impossible woman. Joan also didn’t leave any money to this daughter. I have 5 kids and one on the way. I could never leave them that way. I could never be a rich and prominent mother taking my daughter to court. Is that supposed to make Crawford seem innocent or like an angel? She probably needed help. Most people like this do. My mother does... but these types of people are also very manipulative to the people around them and are able to bend them to do exactly like they want. My point is that this is plausible

[@Garsons-oq4lh]

@@jessicaxhanning2111 Following Joan’s death in May 1977, her will bequeathed a large portion of her assets to several worthy charities. Among them were: The Muscular Dystrophy Association, the American Cancer Society and the Motion Picture Country Home, which is a nursing home that provides care to the indigent who could not afford care. Christina attempted to void Crawford’s will, and thereby STRIP these charities of the MUCH-NEEDED financial resources that Joan Crawford had bequeathed to them. Christina did this in the interest of her own GREEDY benefit. As a result of Christina’s actions against Joan Crawford’s estate, these charities had to PAY for legal representation during the two-year court battle, thus draining funds from the charities' budgets. In the end, Joan Crawford’s estate settled with Christina Crawford, and her brother, Christopher, in the amount of $55,000, which was to be divided between both siblings. Christina Crawford later claimed she only contested Joan Crawford’s will for her brother’s financial benefit. However, here are some FACTS regarding Christina’s TRUE interest in her brother’s financial well-being: Of the $55,000 estate settlement, Christina claims to have given all of it to her brother. This is FALSE. More than HALF of the $55,000 was first paid to Christina’s attorney, who was representing her interest in the publication of her book “Mommie Dearest.” Therefore, LESS than half of the funds were actually given to Christopher. The LARGER bulk was paid to Christina’s attorney for HER benefit. Christina Crawford’s “Mommie Dearest” was a best-selling book. From the MILLIONS of dollars she made in proceeds from the book's sells, she gave her brother, Christopher, only $10,000 for his rights. Christina sold the film rights for $280,000 (according to Christina). Other sources cite the sell of the film rights for $500,000. From this sell, Christina gave her brother NOTHING. Christina NEVER contributed any proceeds from the sell of her book to ANY child abuse organization, or other charity. Nor has Christina Crawford EVER volunteered her time or resources to ANY such organization or charity. Any connection Christina had with such charity was a PAID spokesperson position. Christina later admitted that she and her husband, David Koontz, spent all of this money within only SIX years, and she was BROKE by 1985. THIS is who Christina Crawford is. She is NOT a victim. She is NOT a survivor. She is a DISGUSTING, GREEDY, LIAR. A child with muscular dystrophy IS a survivor. A person battling cancer IS a survivor. An elderly person struggling IS a survivor. Christina Crawford attempted to, wrongly, obtain the needed resources of these TRUE survivors. *Credit to ChristinaCrawfordLied facebook*

[@angelacooper8973]

The best abusive moms can put on the BEST face.

[@brianwalsh1401]

@@jessicaxhanning2111 Don't even pay attention to that guy Garsons, he's been cutting and pasting that comment down this thread for some time now. I wonder if he runs the Joan Crawford fan club. It's like trying to explain to trumpers that their guy is a malignant narcissists, they don't and won't get it.

[@roza2633]

"dressing up as joan crawford and kicking life-size effigies of her daughter christina up and down christopher street" "when joan lands a punch, we cheer" uhh as a lesbian i don't think anything made me quite as ashamed of being a part of lgbt community.. this is so tasteless, lacks any sort of empathy (you could literally even think what christina said is untrue and that's still disgusting. making those sorts of jokes about child abuse is unacceptable in any setting that's not friends making jokes in private to cope with their own experiences) and is just honestly disgusting

[@dqverify6797]

THANK YOU!! I was horrified by this, and by the idea that these men would actually laugh and cheer about it like it was funny and cute? Like Christina "deserved" to be beaten, or like it's okay for Joan to abuse her children because she's a movie star? (And they cheered it, by the way, while being dressed as grotesque caricatures of women, in what I personally call "ladyface." [Like "blackface." I'm not claiming it's as bad as blackface, I'm merely explaining why I call it that--because that's how I think of it/see it.] Their entire act is belittling and mocking women and femininity, and then they top it off by celebrating violence against women and girls. And then in a video about a movie about a woman who violently physically and verbally abused her daughter, a huge chunk of the video is given to a man to explain why he and other men like him find it, and the abuser, so delightful.)

[@blowitoutyourcunt7675]

My bestie is an older gay man, he remembers vividly so many people showing up to the movie theatre with wire hangers and cheering during during that scene. He gets excited to watch to the camp and although I love the movie, that was also my mum to a T and the movie makes me uneasy (worse than any horror film) and so does his *glee*. It's just so off kilter, especially considering he had an abusive alcoholic mother also... There's just a intellectual / emotional disconnect there in the older LGBT community about this movie that even I, a decade after my initial experience with him and this movie still doesn't make sense. I don't hold it against him but let's just say we've never watched this movie together because our emotional disconnect would be so great, as to be insurmountable.

[@saladman420]

@@dqverify6797 I don’t agree with gay men liking her but you sound like a TERF

[@thethoughtfulpeanut6662]

@@dqverify6797 Freud would have had a field day dissecting the homosexual/drag queen-Mommie Dearest infatuation phenomenon: Tons of hurt, angry men with Mommy and sexuality issues due to having been raised by women with Cluster B personality disorders expressing their personal bitterness through their mean-spirited buffoonery.

[@lucad6649]

Absolutely. I'm a bisexual woman and this feels deeply sad and misogynistic. Child abuse is not funny but I also deeply dislike drag as an "art"...I think it's just men hating women and making them look stupid and crazy

[@johnclement9370]

"How sharper than a serpent's tooth it is to have a thankless child." Shakespeare's King Lear

[@eph2vv89only1way]

When the movie, “Mommie Dearest”, came out, my mom told me she remembered years earlier when there were allegations of child abuse while the kids were still kids. She told me that at the time no one believed the allegations because Joan Crawford was a celebrity and at the time it was believed that celebrities weren’t capable of abuse.

[@ChristinaCrawfordLied]

Christina Crawford Lied

[@theinvisibleme4104]

@@ChristinaCrawfordLied yes, that's your username, we got it

[@ChristinaCrawfordLied]

@@theinvisibleme4104 Doesn't seem that you do.

[@-redacted2554]

@@ChristinaCrawfordLied get help

[@ChristinaCrawfordLied]

@@-redacted2554 I don't need help because I'm not a complete moron...

[@ichieru]

The fact that anyone believes that Joan Crawford wasn't like this shows a real level of nativité and a lack of childhood trauma

[@jamesmorrison2055]

Or due to the fact that the rest of her children and many other people close to the family said she wasn’t like that at all.

[@Muirmaiden]

@@jamesmorrison2055 Christopher stated that Joan abused him as well. The twins having a different experience proves nothing.

[@in_vino_veritas7938]

I don't think that's fair. I've suffered a great deal of abuse from family but do believe this movie was an exaggeration. The truth usually lies somewhere in the middle. And it was written after Joan's death. Note Christina kept her last name likely to monopolize on her mother's fame. It's ok to have differing opinions. Joan probably was unhinged for a time before she got the hang of parenting, but we'll never know the full story and there does seem to be exaggeration

[@Mikado8848]

Christina has been caught in more than one lie. You are not interchangeable.