Black Mirror: Still Bad

Let's talk about Black Mirror. Get 40% discount on nebula: go.nebula.tv/bigjoel/
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[@BigJoel]

Nebula is 15 dollars for the YEAR. Not month. It’s 2.50 a month. Also, the lifetime deal on Nebula is a September only thing. Also my bonus video will be out in a few days! I did a bad job at the ad this time. Womp go.nebula.tv/bigjoel/

[@cha-mel-eon]

of course king

[@vantablack6288]

i eated the comment

[@targaghjj]

What? Is the world ending Oct 1?

[@vantablack6288]

@@targaghjj yes

[@KM-pm6qe]

Link takes me to a $30/year offer. $15 ➗ 12 months would be $1.25, not $2.50. You might be working too hard, Joel! 🌸

[@KellyKnowlesArt]

WHY DID THEY PUT THEIR MEAT BODIES IN SPACE AND THE ROBOTS ON EARTH INSTEAD OF THE OTHER WAY AROUND. if they can make humanoid robots why can't they make drones that can push buttons and tighten screws on a spaceship

[@AlInGaP_Diode]

I haven't watched it but it could be a test on the long term effects on humans in space

[@ernie39]

EXACTLY WHAT I WAS THINKING LIKE????

[@MrsBrownieBear]

THANK YOU!

[@shadyguy23]

I don't remember if they say it explicitly, but I'd assume it's because, in keeping with the patriarchal/capitalist angle, the mission is more important; if they send robot bodies on the mission and they malfunction, the mission fails, but being with their families is (to the government or whoever's sponsoring this mission) just a quality of life improvement, where it's nice for the astronauts to have that, but if the robots break, oh well, the mission can still go on.

[@infinite_array]

Same thought. I could imagine it being some stupid Corp thing. Maybe they don't want their expensive robots out where it'd be difficult to repair them? But yeah, it's pretty dumb.

[@thisissme]

Its so crazy they didn’t make Beyond the Sea be from the wife’s perspective. Imagine the horror of never knowing which man was your husband. And then maybe, one day she realizes it’s not him, and she doesn’t know if her actual husband is dead or alive. Does she keep her mouth shut or try to get answers? Does she care? It would be so cool

[@threepointonefour607]

I thought this would happen. Like the crewmate would kill the husband and pretend to be the husband..would have been spookier imo

[@threepointonefour607]

Especially if we also didn't know that husband is dead, until it's revealed at the very end somehow on the ship

[@treehann]

that was one of many ways to actually write the episode in a smart and interesting way... instead of what they did.

[@dmb1745]

@@threepointonefour607I actually thought this was how the episode was going to end and I was disappointed when he instead killed the wife and child.

[@cardiaccoder9622]

i feel like you’d probably know if the other person was ur partner or just some stranger pretending to be them though. like they could probably get away with it for a short bit but no real length of time

[@jenniharrison6759]

I just really want to say that when black mirror first started, it was a fringe series in channel 4. In the UK channel 4 was always this channel which young people could switch to to see interesting and innovative programming. In the UK channel 4 was always willing to take a risk and be out there and progressive, and it took a punt of Black Mirror and the first season was ground breaking for those of us who tuned in live. Black mirror came after this amazing series about Big Brother called Dead Set which was set if a zombie apocalypse happened from the perspective of Big Brother participants and it was ace for the time. I'm disappointed that Black Mirror has become from fringe to a global appeal Netflix's series. It's like when a band becomes mainstream, you're happy for the success but disappointed by the results 🤷‍♀️

[@baintreachas]

wait, i was excited to see that exact concept on Netflix but in Brazil- Reality Z. i thought it was such an original idea 😭

[@Schmidtelpunkt]

But it is also similar in the way that one has discovered that band at a stage of one's life when one would discover the world a lot through the lens of their songs. No later song, no matter how good, will ever match that experience. The comparison is no between the current songs and the old songs but between the new songs and phase of one's own development warped by nostalgia. Sticking to something you liked will always end with it being shit. Always.

[@lashermayfair0]

Dead Set was so terrific!!

[@JamesFTW1]

Black Mirror became the protagonist of fifteen million merits

[@goodgoshzilla]

i still remember how genuinely confronting or interesting the first couple of seasons were, and whenever i tell people irl about how disappointing the netflix show is they just don't see how it could be any different from how it is now. it feels like such a massive waste of a genuinely interesting concept in pursuit of lazy twist-bait and people don't think to expect anything more than that

[@dirtyhatemachine]

My problem with Joan is Awful is that it was released by Netflix. It wants to critique everything about the entertainment industry whilst being a perpetrator of the very thing they're showcasing as the issue in the episode. It's really frustrating to me when companies try to do these things. I understand the critique the episode itself is making came from writers and directors but the show can't really be untied from Netflix as a company at this point.

[@lc1715]

I saw it more as Charlie Brooker, the creator/writer, being a bit rebellious and sticking to his bosses, so to speak, and they reluctantly released it for fear of seeming not self-aware. I think it's more enjoyable through that lens, anyway.

[@tempesttossed6029]

I speculate that the story had to be a comedy to be released. Netflix would likely not have released a serious amd scathing take on their part in facilitating the fall of art and storytelling as a medium because it would be too honest and bad for their brand.

[@dirtyhatemachine]

@@tempesttossed6029 I agree with this but I think that's part of what pisses me off the most about it. It's a half-assed attempt that's not even doing anything real to solve an issue that they're apart of. It reminds me of how Broey Deschanel described Mattel in her barbie video. I just hate when the consumers are treated like we're idiots yanno?

[@ardentspy]

That ship sailed a long time ago with Charlie Brooker.

[@dirtyhatemachine]

@@lc1715 Oh it would for sure be more enjoyable through that lens but honestly I don't see that realistically being the case here. I think it being so overly comedic makes me feel extremely pessimistic and uncomfortable with the entire episode. They're trying to play off something so exploitative and horrific that's literally a very real possibility at this point for actors, writers, and normal people alike as a light-hearted haha funny issue. It's like if you go back and watch old black mirror episodes you can go "this would be so terrifying if it actually happened but, that'd be so far into the future that I can't take it seriously." But with Joan is Awful unfortunately you can clearly see it literally happening right now in relation to the SAG-AFTRA strikes.

[@carelesswhisker4155]

"what human would act like this" umm... she's a werewolf... 🙄💅

[@Fragenzeichenplatte]

Werewolves are human....They can have children with other humans, no?

[@alicewroblewski5527]

and werewolves are notorious for recognizing a good photo op

[@learningtolife1717]

Oh please, she hadn't been a werewolf pissing time when that happened

[@leotamer5]

Because werewolves are known for acting very inhuman while not in their bestial form? The monster all about a person turning into some monstrous under specific tradition. A monster that could be anyone, but you don't know until the moon rises and it is to late?

[@tikimillie]

Love this comment

[@humphreyspellingbee1732]

"joan is awful" wasn't terrible, but seeing it after black mirror's hiatus really felt like waiting an hour at a fancy restaurant only to receive a bread basket full of bread that was clearly just purchased from the nearest supermarket and toasted for half the time it needed to be

[@TheFrostbite324]

It was solid, but it was the only episode that felt like a black mirror episode. Even then it would probably be in the lower end of the previous seasons.

[@genericamerican7574]

With a side of dollop of dollar store tomatoes🥫

[@lollybowser]

​@@TheFrostbite324seriously I feel the concept is just fully lost now. It used to be a reflection on society and over reliance on technology and where that could lead us to in a potential future. Not every episode was gold but it was still mostly solid. Now it feels like they're just throwing ideas around, doesn't matter if technology is even involved. I feel some of these would be a better fit on Love Death Robots.

[@TheFrostbite324]

@@lollybowser it went from “hey let’s take a look at this technology that could exist sometime in the future and see how it could go horribly wrong” to “let’s just be Netflix’s Twilight Zone”

[@elgatonegro1703]

@@TheFrostbite324mate they’ve always been like this…the entire first season is cynical parables about some aspect of social media, which imo isn’t an unfair description of the show. Even when it does explore interesting ideas, like death and loss and consciousness in Be Right Back, it still has to remind you that fabricant-Dommhall derives its personality from his mfin twitter account, of all things, in case you were getting philosophical instead of worked up about how chronic online-ness will make people…somehow more unpleasant than Brooker. I still like Black Mirror because 9 times out of 10, even when it’s bad it’s still pretty engaging in the moment. And here we are talking about it, so that’s not nothing. But it rarely says anything of value or that you can’t find in some random Reddit comment, and it occasionally sacrifices good storytelling or cinematography to say those things.

[@d_akios3520]

The hardest part to believe about joan is awful is that a lawyer would see this huge case about authorship and give up after one day of reviewing it just because the terms and services say so. A real lawyer would have “reviewed” the case for months no matter how likely you are to lose

[@nightwaddie5426]

That and the fact that the main characters first thought was to shit in a church instead of completely isolating herself from tech.

[@slightlyoffensivedadjokes]

omg yes thank you. EVERY case takes so much time and lawyers need to study extensively. especially in terms of services cases, where lawyers have to endlessly read and reread arbitrarily long ToS transcripts over and over again, no matter how obvious the verdict might seem. not that being a lawyer is an inherently noble profession, but the job DOES require a lot of time and researching.

[@Not_Always]

@@nightwaddie5426 That was a gaping hole in the logic for me. If I was told that my whole life was being broadcast simply because I had a phone or smart home device that listened and saw everything that I said, and that the ToS for a streaming service gave them the right to do so, guess what would be canceled immediately and turned off before that? Also, in no world can you check a box that says "I agree" and that be 100% legally sound for a company to do whatever they wanted in perpetuity. Laws are not written like that.

[@Zomburai45]

@@Not_Always I mean it's not so far removed from the legal arguments AI companies are making right now in regards to AI generated content

[@Not_Always]

@@Zomburai45 the arguments aren't remotely the same, tbh

[@Ashen-Crow]

To me the tragedy at the start of Beyond the sea is severely undermined by the existence of the "robot murder squad". It would fit the narrative way better if they just crashed their car or something.

[@PurgPurg]

Fr. It made no sense. “Some sort of hippie cult!” proceeds to never come up again. And it was so cheesy too, the acting was so bad, ugh

[@jaytee_9074]

Probably, but it wouldnt have been nearly as traumatizing to the husband as seeing them killed right in front of you

[@cayleece7890]

@@jaytee_9074 true

[@EGOR.d07]

the only thing the "hippie squad" contributed to was the ideia of owning a firearm at home, which i reeeally doubt goes in line with netflix's political agenda lol

[@mrdoggo3569]

its absolutely senseless too. Those are super important government agents, they would never be living alone, their house would be monitored 24/7 and any attempt to break in would result in death lol.

[@emmettbrown3463]

shout out to average joel for calling out lack of official wording for hand sex, so brave

[@emmettbrown3463]

i am not so brave after the direct threat in the end

[@jd1800]

There's "groping" but I feel like that has a negative connotation usually.

[@thecrazymonkeyking9805]

fondling @@jd1800

[@chubcub68]

Digital sex is the term I was taught back in sex ed

[@KristofskiKabuki]

@@chubcub68now that’s appropriate for a black mirror episode…

[@interrabang]

When it's a robot, it's apropos to call it "digital stimulation" instead of "hand sex"

[@chaosvii]

🦾 🍑

[@benjaminkutzner821]

Coochie Clicker

[@hughcaldwell1034]

I am (a) ashamed I didn't think of this and (b) shocked at how underappreciated this comment is. That right there was a bloody masterstroke.

[@AK-ih3hx]

Let's take it one further and call it "digit(al) stimulation"

[@Ackthrice]

@@hughcaldwell1034 A masterstroke is a very good type of hand sex

[@zacharyjoseph7458]

Pia dies like most of us will: anticlimactically. No struggle, or send-off, or emotional last goodbyes. She trips and drowns in the dark. I like how the second documentary wraps her death into the mystery and intrigue of the murders -- truth is distorted for the sake of heightened drama. It's an important reference point for the audience to scale the distance between reality and "a true story."

[@adil0028]

Pia's eyebrows should be considered an international crime lol

[@cassieshoemaker4733]

​@@adil0028thank you for saying this

[@maddieb.4282]

@@adil0028curious what her eyebrows did to hurt you personally or if you just like judging women for unusual style choices

[@adil0028]

@@maddieb.4282got her killed didn't it

[@BriLikesSynths]

Beyond the sea makes me so angry cause if it had ended around halfway through, just literally hard stop after that scene where he cries in the forest, it would have been perfect. If they truly cared so much about being shocking and subversive, they could have let that moment of catharsis and emotional sensitivity be the whole point. To turn around and make the man who experienced such trauma a murderer, to sink into such patriarchal tropes, as if it's making some point about patriarchal attitudes but in reality has nothing to offer there, is honestly cowardly. Everything after that crying by the tree scene was needless and made what could have been something beautiful into meaningless violence (against women) and nihilism.

[@AlexKrasnyPrime]

Yeah good point… I feel like it would take quite a lot to make a normal person a murderer (child killer!) especially a man who is evaluated for for this insane mission…. Very contrived.

[@carlpanzram7081]

The desire to cram some faux presentation of the patriarchy into everything is too big. Don't you know, every weiter wants to be a political activist. You need a moralist fundament for everything nowadays. How many movies today are Full of those meaningless tropes? It's necessary virtue signaling.

[@maddieb.4282]

@@carlpanzram7081maybe spell check your comments and choose a different screen name that’s not a serial killer. Perhaps then people would listen to you

[@sophiethegreat9]

@@carlpanzram7081Read a book and do some critical analysis, Carl Panzram. Try The Yellow Wallpaper by Charlotte Gilman. Men tend to looove that story.

[@nonarygaming9520]

Mazey Day would have been so much better if Bo had snapped that final pic of Mazey without her consent. Throughout the episode Bo positions herself as more moral, more scrupulous than her colleagues. This is her last job, because unlike her mean and sleazy colleagues, she has standards. But, like, she doesn’t. She’s still stalking this vulnerable woman. She’s a hypocrite, and the ending should reflect that.

[@jeremyarcus-goldberg9543]

I think your version is one way to interpret the ending. It would mean that Bo deliberately misinterprets Mazel request to shoot her.

[@wellwell7950]

The way I interpreted it, it was without her consent, I think Joel actually misinterpreted it because I read a couple plot synopsis and not one says Mazey wanted the picture taken and some explicitly stated she was doing it as you described without her consent, as a commentary on Bo. And when you watch it I'm actually confused how Joel came to the conclusion she wanted the photo taken. She didn't say take a pic of me gal, she just asked for the gun and then Bo brought the camera up.

[@killerdonut1194]

That is what happens. She asks Bo to kill her, Bo hands her the gun, and as she puts it to her head Bo raises her camera. There’s no words exchanged, not even a nod or facial expression indicating she’s asking her to take a picture. She doesn’t immediately shoot herself. She kind of stares at Bo for a second, and I think this is what Joel is interpreting as consent, but I think that’s wrong. I think she’s just not super psyched to be shooting herself lmao.

[@comedyman4896]

I think it would have been so much better if it had turned out they were both werewolves and then they had hot hairy werewolf sex for the remaining runtime of the episode

[@wellwell7950]

@@killerdonut1194 totally agree

[@jaxonsevero1045]

The werewolf one was hilariously bad and my girlfriend predicted the twist through the twilight references in it💀

[@YearsOfLeadPoisoning]

That was by far my favourite episode. It was fun and was the least bogged down in convoluted messaging.

[@levitategrin]

@@YearsOfLeadPoisoning I had a great time with it

[@kat8559]

Yessss i thought that was so fun

[@alex9581]

oh, me too! the muse songs completely clued me into it

[@violetblythe6912]

What were the twilight references? I feel like I should know this as I read all the books when they came out in junior high, but I barely remember them now lol. I only read them because it was all any of the other girls would talk about. I recall having a really hard time getting through the second book because 95% of it was Bella whining and then trying to kill herself because her bf wasn’t there. It was painfully bad.

[@zeplineos2507]

My biggest issue with Beyond the Sea is sending the humans to space instead of the robots.

[@dazzasenchy]

Just a note on Joan is awful, I think the reason why there were so many strange dramatic scenes (the shit in the church, the apple terms of service) was because we were watching a dramaticisation of a dramaticisation of a real person's life. We can see in our second-level Joan's perspective that the TV show of her life is even more dramatic and silly, so the original Joan's life is probably much less dramatic and silly than what we see in second-level Joan. I thought that the strangeness and silliness of those moments was explained really satisfyingly by the twist. There were probably much better explanations as to why the TV show was legal in the original Joan's life, but we don't get to see them.

[@milamakowska1213]

That's convenient😑

[@jasonbraun127]

I don't think that's true. The Hayek-Joan was a bit more exaggerated in her meanness but otherwise the show depicted the events as they happened (especially some of the key moments like the lawyer scene and the church scene) pretty accurately. On top of that, in the end we can see the real church scene with the real Joan and it played out pretty much exactly like we saw it in the episode.

[@TheInfectous]

@@milamakowska1213 You do realize that TV shows are scripted and written right? That writers think about these things? No fucking shit it's convenient.

[@alejandrobolin5224]

While that could be a good explanation, it can also feel like a pretty good excuse for lazy writing, like Charlie Brooker didn't want to bother to have a logical explanation when it comes to that, so he just took advantage of the episode's premise to essentially not try. (P.S. I still like Joan Is Awful btw)

[@enio9477]

There was a bit after credits where they showed original Joan doing it for funsies, and she did the exact same thing in the exact same way.

[@molokiify]

My biggest problem with Beyond the Sea was that it didn't utilize the premise at all. You have two guys sharing the same body, the same face, the same life, and it never comes up. Dave being in Cliff's body is only relevant to the story in one scene to make an awkward moment. You could cut the whole space and robot plots from the story and it would still be the same. At the end, it's just another story about male ego and infidelity that could have been told about any random 3 people in any other setting.

[@REY.3727]

yeah I def agree. none of the episodes this season felt like they really utilized any sort of technology to tell a good story, which is basically the thing that made black mirror so good. disappointing.

[@noway6133]

Like why was there never a single scene where the guy pretends he's the other guy? Feels pretty obvious

[@enum01]

@@noway6133 literally... just have the guy have sex with the other guys wife a few times pretending he is him and then revealing he isnt him try again and she rejects him, and take out some of the other boring stuff

[@treehann]

that episode sucked ass in a dozen flavors. I am amazed every time I see someone say it was one of their favorites of the season.

[@Not_Always]

Yes, Beyond the Sea had potential and they squandered it.

[@thisguyducky]

I like that American Vandel, a joke satire fake documentary about a student drawing dicks on cars, some how has way more to say about ethics and affects of true crime than Black Mirror.

[@Kaido711]

Yeah exactly. Genuinely interesting, and Dylan Maxwell’s character brings up some interesting points about the self-fulfilling prophecy of teen “troublemakers.”

[@ConnorNolan]

American Vandal is amazing

[@NIN0ID]

American Vandal is pretty great, tbf

[@than217]

~What about the ball hairs? Teacher: "Excuse me?"

[@TheFrostbite324]

I’m so mad Netflix cancelled it.

[@Toerworth]

Pia’s death wasn’t lazy, she was actually mesmerised at the landscapes at the beginning only for her bf to say that it’s actually very dangerous and easy to hurt yourself and no one would look for you. And striking the point again: her death wasn’t “drama”, so no one talked about it, it wasn’t interesting, so everyone just forgot about her.

[@tempesttossed6029]

Exactly. It was set up to be just that, even to the audience watching the episode.

[@nelsonth]

What? Dying while you are being chased by your boyfriend's serial killer mother is forgettable?

[@dirtyhatemachine]

@@nelsonth in the minds of people obsessed with true crime unfortunately, yes

[@heckoff7904]

Yeah, that's lazy still. Sorry. You've just pushed the laziness back. Now the laziness is that her death was foreshadowed by a dumb off-handed line about the terrain. Is the theme supposed to be that tourists are ignorant of... the difficulty of local terrain? Accidental death just never works for me. It just feels like they needed someone to die and couldn't actually write it satisfyingly. Like, it is not the result of a web of character choices interwoven, it's just a little stone on the ground.

[@SerbAtheist]

@@heckoff7904 'Is the theme supposed to be that tourists are ignorant of... the difficulty of local terrain?' No, it isn't, what a breathtakingly facetious and arrogant take. The theme is that dangerous and destructive things SHOULD NOT BE GLORIFIED. His gf gets destroyed by the very nature she admired. He gets destroyed emotionally by the crime documentary he tried to peddle without realizing how complicit his family was in these murders.

[@binch6291]

Even though Joan is Awful isn’t perfect, I found it interesting for having the capacity to be read a couple different ways. The most obvious one is the lack of agency to tell our stories in an age of digital surveillance, but someone I know found it to be a very empathetic portrayal of what an internet dogpile feels like. The first act of the episode depicts everyone you know being privy to what is essentially the least charitable reading of every action in your day-to-day life, and the earnest way they depicted the emotional response to that probably makes it one of the best media depictions of what gets called “cancel culture” without being a right wing screed.

[@vlayneberry578]

I agree Maisie Day is awful, but the werewolf thing isn't totally random. It's a pretty transparent metaphor for addiction: she's made vulnerable to it by fame, she tries to escape to a treatment center to heal her illness, but being dragged back into the public eye repeatedly keeps her from recovering, until her condition gets so bad that she ends up hurting the people around her. It's another one where there could be something interesting there in the idea, but the way it's done is really slow and boring and doesn't investigate the idea much at all.

[@Nightman221k]

Plus, Maisie could've been treated and gotten the help she needed in the rehab she was at if not for being a famous celebrity who the paparazzi were wanting to use for exploitation.

[@bellbanana]

Interesting, I interpreted it as a metaphor for how the public dehumanizes celebrities, with the invasive behavior of paparazzi being one of the most visible and egregious examples.

[@kenzij]

That makes sense. I was fine with there being a supernatural element but I couldn't figure out why werewolves were chosen.

[@chriss780]

i think it was about werewolves mauling people.

[@slothhq1929]

I think it’s a metaphors for how people view celebrities. Dehumized, powerful, a speciticle.

[@Joeyw-2203]

This latest season was more like a horror anthology. There's no real twist or techno phobia. There's just a scary monster and then the main character dies.

[@REY.3727]

literally it's so sad, feels like it could've been so much better. although I suppose the pig episode didn't use technology it was pretty good though

[@Dokkobo]

It did in the sense of exploiting the public's relation with live media to humiliate and torment a man for your own satisfaction/agenda. What the kidnapper sought to achieve wouldn't have been possible without the world's connection to TV. It did a great job with that by showing the anticipation and debates of the public around the event, but that all turned to disgust and pity when the time came. @@REY.3727

[@MichelleSmith-gt1py]

​@@REY.3727 it was about the horror of journalism and news outlets. kinda tech.

[@ProgrammedForDamage]

My biggest problem is that most of them really telegraphed the ending or "surprise". They left me with a whole "eh.." feeling at the end. Compare that to the ending of episodes like 'Shut Up and Dance', where it took five minutes for me to pick my jaw up off the floor. I thought what he did must have been something bad, but when it hit, it hit hard.

[@sethk5396]

I will never forgive my prof for making us all watch a Black Mirror episode in class and write an essay on it instead of a normal exam.

[@aislynnmari]

Little Joel: still good

[@jedisalsohere]

This is Big Joel, actually. Totally unrelated to that other guy.

[@jstenhouse22]

Meh

[@aislynnmari]

@@jedisalsohere Big Joel: Still Mid 😝 Kidding ofc

[@Coffee-Cath]

YEAH TAKE THAT BLACK MIRROR MORE LIKE BAD MIRROR (amiright)

[@BobBob-xs2uw]

​@@aislynnmariNOT KIDDING😡🤬!!! I only subscribed and watch every video and leave a like out of spite for how MID it is!!!🤬😡🤬

[@deltanoiro]

Personally my reading of Loch Henry was that there is a distance to the crimes that the producers and consumers of true crime share, a separation that allows for the enjoyment of a sort of real life ghost story. This isnt seen as a probelm or harmful, until the seperation is gone, and the crime is suddenly made personal. When you dont have that barrier between you and the awful thing/things that were done, it stops being entertainment and your left with the reality of it. I think the message is fine and was delivered fine, my primary problem is that it was coming from netflix, which is super exploitative of true crime, and isnt shy about profiting from painting real life tragedy as an exciting and episodic binge.

[@xXluluchanelXx]

I didn't like Loch Henry at first, but when I came to this interpretation I at least got what I thought it was trying to do. I think Joel is an astute critic of just about every kind of art, but we are all vulnerable to tunnel vision for our own interpretations sometimes. I agree his interpretation does make the episode incredibly pointless, I just didn't share that interpretation! Mazey Day sucked tho.

[@ilikebugs69]

Honestly between Loch Henry and Joan Is Awful I really felt like Netflix is just laughing in our faces, Streamberry IS Netflix and they're both very "we know" episodes. It left a bad taste in my mouth

[@tempesttossed6029]

Exactly. Spot on.

[@tempesttossed6029]

​@@ilikebugs69Yes, I believe that they are doing it on purpose.

[@fightvale57]

Same and same.

[@charliedale2477]

Pia’s death is actually foreshadowed earlier in the Loch Henry episode, as when there’s backstory to the murders being given, they mention the victims that went missing could have died by slipping and falling or something similar while hiking in the highlands. So I wouldn’t say it’s lazy writing, they had it planned from the start for her to die that way

[@skch.animation]

I used to tell myself when i was walking alone in the dark, that if i were a potential horror movie victim, i could just do something crazy that would never be put into a movie, like shitting on the street for no reason. But then i told myself that if i started doing that for seemingly no reason, that THAT would be the real horror movie irl.

[@jasonbraun127]

Loch Henry was the biggest disappointment of the whole season for me (although probably not the worst episode overall.) I think a critique of True Crime is very timely and appropriate, especially with Netflix cranking out gross things like the Dahmer series but they so desperately wanted to create a "shocking" twist that they made it boring and not subversive in the slightest. I always thought the episode would've been so much better if there was no big reveal and there was no mystery to solve. Just an awful story about an awful person and these teenagers made everyone go through this whole ordeal again just because they wanted to exploit the situation for their cool documentary. Because that's often how real tragedies are. It would've been a lot more subversive in my opinion and actually would've gotten the point across better.

[@ambatuBUHSURK]

ethics NEED to be considered when making true crime content. some of the stuff on youtube is outright disrespectful and sensationalist to the point that the grizzly details of the crime are the only selling point.

[@endaburns2121]

*Lock Henry

[@camerabox1]

@@endaburns2121 why are you correcting him, the episode is called Loch Henry because thats the fictional location its set in

[@RedHairedZander]

​@@camerabox1some people like to pretend to be right. Even if they have no idea what they're talking about.

[@Thecuriousincident1]

Loch Henry is something I think about often, they got the bleakness and emptiness of these places perfectly. I thought it was shocking and very effective.

[@iamtherog]

I gave Black Mirror another shot with this season and I pretty much agree with everything you say here. I feel like the issue is that there’s never really a concrete reason why *these people* are being singled out. It’s not like in Twilight Zone where usually folks are receiving karmic punishment for violating society’s rules. It’s just nasty stuff that happens to people because of tech.

[@gwen9939]

You don't even need to refer to a different show for this. White Christmas and Black Museum both feature some kind of karmic justice or at least a reason for why these things are happening to these specific people.

[@noahkarpinski1824]

​@gwen9939 yeah I think the key thing in those episodes is that it's people who benefit from the technology getting arbitrarily turned into a victim

[@RabidDogma]

I'm glad people are finally realizing this with this show, but it's been there the whole time. The entire theme of the entire show is a hamfisted "HEY GUYS TECHNOLOGY BAD, GOT IT?" And then people come back with "nonono you don't understand it's people that are bad, people use the technology to be bad," but that's not true EITHER, most people are actually decent. It's the same with the bullshit idea of "if there was an apocalypse you need to avoid people." People together create communities, people together are way stronger, that's our ENTIRE HISTORY and people just ignore that because some dumb movies or shows go "oh boy people are evil huh?"

[@thelemon5069]

Karmic punishment isn't how karma works. Karma is just the sum total of one's actions

[@riynu7774]

@@RabidDogma ""if there was an apocalypse you need to avoid people." People together create communities, people together are way stronger, that's our ENTIRE HISTORY and people just ignore that because some dumb movies or shows go "oh boy people are evil huh?" I don't think history is a good example for people being reasonable and good lol. saying all people are bad and saying most people are decent are both meaningless statement in this context. "HEY GUYS TECHNOLOGY BAD, GOT IT?" is not inherently a bad idea as there have been many shows which showcases some ways in which tech can be harmful or our interaction with being a negative. it can also show case how it can be used by bad indiviuals and how it get used to influence people. Religion bad and War bad are also there... people in the 90's were super paranoid about the increasing influence of tech and many hollywood movies represented this paranoia like terminator etc. It was especially prevalent in japan. also I agree there is no karmic justice in many episodes but i don't think the show claim to be that.... bad thing happening to good people is also a name "tragedy" and that's what the show treats itself as in those episodes... i agree with joel in this video and you can criticize the show, just do it with good reasons.....

[@unicornalq11]

I think the fact that Lockhenry doesn’t feel like a recent Black Mirror episode is probably why I liked it the best 😅 I miss channel 4 black mirror

[@cisrot]

Personally I did really love this season. There was the odd stinker, but I genuinely did enjoy each episode for what it’s worth. It’s nothing like older black mirror, but honestly it was pretty enjoyable.. at least for me

[@OrionCanning]

My real problem with beyond the sea is it's just these characters alone in a pressure cooker, with no NASA employees protecting their investment, no therapist, no psych evals, no bodyguards to stop weird anti robot Manson cultists. It felt silly that they were left entirely on their own especially in the wake of such a tragedy. Also that it just seemed designed to have the worst possible turn of events in a way that feels pointlessly edgy or tragic. But I wasn't at all bored by it, I was very engaged. The werewolf episode really needed to show what the main character does with the photos and story to make it meaningful, how she grapples with the morality of exploiting this tragedy, with getting the truth about werewolves out, maybe no one will publish it but national enquirer, but it was a fun twist.

[@fightvale57]

Agree to both points. Those were the episodes I enjoyed.

[@comp.lex4]

I had the same thought about Beyond the Sea. When Cliff was trying to invent a reason that they couldn't keep sharing the link, I was practically screaming at my screen, why can't you just tell your superiors about the situation and ask them to tell him to stop, without letting him know you asked for it? Go over his head so it isn't your fault anymore, it's just policy, and everything will be fine again. I also was really confused why the replicas were on earth, while the humans were in space. Send the robots to space; they're just as good at any motor skills, and they probably don't need complicated life support or even any food. Who needs manned missions when you've got un-men like these, yknow?

[@evanward4303]

So many plot holes... During all the down time I was entertaining the pros and cons of having the robots on the space ship instead of the guys

[@knv3101]

It's hard to watch something about patriarchy when they're writing through a corrupted masculine lense. Like, if your point is "don't treat women like property" but in the process you treat women like property and you only show sypathy to the male character, how are you actually different? Men who believe women are property will still co-opt your art because it represents what they believe.

[@ZedAmadeus]

Yeah that's what I was thinking. We've gotten a lot of vivid portraits of misogynistic men and their complicated, shitty inner-lives (like Breaking Bad as another example) but the criticism of their behaviour always feels a little toothless, because at the end of the day... We spend more time thinking about them and seeing their perspective, and a lot less time focusing on the people they hurt and how they experience these men. Would've been a much more unsettling episode from the perspective of the wife and kid.

[@unfortunatecircumstances8870]

​@@ZedAmadeusWe'd be stuck with veggie bacon and sad handjobs for the first few seasons.

[@noahtheanimationguy3695]

@@ZedAmadeus 🤓☝

[@tomnelsonast]

@@noahtheanimationguy3695 Damn bro, it must've taken you 5 minutes to come up with that one. What a belly-buster right there!

[@Azurethewolf168]

@@ZedAmadeuswe already do that, it’s called feminism

[@Roadiedave]

I just saw way too much, in every episode, of "Lookie who we got to play a part! Isn't it cool?" bleeding into the meta-narrative. I guess it fits if the entire season was actually an extension of Joan is Awful, and the mirror was looking back at us saying "Look what I made you watch. You liked it, right? Of course you did. We got famous people. Ask me what it means!!" and effectively broke the 5th wall on its way out of existence via grand meaningless exposition with a final stop at Club Irony.

[@nastykidneys3075]

I read the Maisy day one a bit differently/ Maisy turning into a werewolf was a metaphor for addiction and her being locked away at the end is her going to rehab, and dealing with withdrawal (hence the pain so bad she wants to unalive). The paparazzi harassing her are meant to showcase how the paparazzi treats celebrities struggling with this addictions (look at Brittany Spears Lynsey Lohan etc) and wants to showcase them at their worst. I don’t think it’s done very cleverly or even think it’s a good episode but this is how I read it

[@Kaido711]

In Beyond the Sea, David was reading "The Illustrated Man" by Ray Bradbury (in which a man buys a robot replica of himself so that he doesn't need to interact with his wife) and so I expected it to dive more into Cliff's emotional isolation and motivations. Being that so much of Beyond the Sea centered around loneliness and atomization, I thought it was going to make more parallels between Cliff and David's loneliness. But we never get to understand Cliff, or the underlying reasons he'd been so cold to his family. I thought it was interesting how isolated and closed off Cliff seemed from the beginning (despite being the technically less lonely one between the two of them following David's loss). If the story was in part a commentary on patriarchy, I feel like it could have said more to tie those two themes together, especially with the whole "male loneliness" debate that's going on.

[@spinozatheobvious626]

Cliff, retreating to the countryside, is to me the spirit of the old world lingering on. David, living in LA(?) is an attempt at a more modern, vaguely progressive life. And yet, in the end, they are basically the same: violent, self centred men. I'm not sure why much more needed to be said about what they believe exactly, I think their actions and their views on the people around them speak plenty on their beliefs.

[@dinosaysrawr]

"Beyond the Sea" actually felt like the kind of story Ray Bradbury or Phillip K. Dick would write!

[@SantosAl]

​@spinozatheobvious626 You could call Cliff self-centered for "forcing" his family to move to the country but how is he violent?

[@JB-fp3fb]

@@SantosAl He regularly beats his son, and even encourages others to do so too. The scene of him defending, almost bragging about, this is even in Big Joel's video.

[@anarchakatty5438]

​​@@SantosAlwatch the video, Big Joel actually shows a clip of Cliff talking about "wailing on" his son and defending David hitting him as Cliff because Cliff already hits him all the time, and encouraging that it needs to be done. It's awful

[@Tehbestestevasss]

The reason I really liked Beyond the Sea is the ending. Throughout the entire episode, you are told over and over that this spaceship requires two people in order to continue living. So after the man's family is killed, he wants revenge. But he knows if he gets his revenge and kills his space companion, then he will die on this spaceship all alone, probably further than any other human has ever been. So he can't. He has to sit with that guilt and shame knowing he didn't listen to his wife until it was too late and now he has nothing but their murderer to depend on

[@GheyForGames]

yeah i got this from it too!

[@bozotheclown1142]

I mean, they're both men with nothing to lose, so who knows what's going to happen. I also feel that it's dumb the astronaut just became a murderer like that, good job now you'll be arrested when you arrive back at Earth

[@slothhq1929]

It felt out of character for the killer austronaut.

[@fightvale57]

Exactly. I actually found that quite impactful,but it seems I'm in the minority with that.

[@arturoaguilar6002]

That sounds really dumb. If he was so thirsty for revenge, why didn't he use his companion's replica to hunt down the perpetrators instead?

[@daanvancauwenberge9676]

Okay so I’m aware there is only a very small chance you will read this, but for some reason I’m obsessed with this theory about Loch Henry and I see nobody talking about this. I agree with you that the obvious meaning of the episode concerns the exploitative and consumerist nature of true crime. However, I think there is a secondary theme that could potentially be way more interesting: the rewriting of history through the creation of media. As it stands this plays out on two levels: First there is the mom disguising her ‘murder tapes’ as a detective show (which I think is funny, because detectives are the OG true crime). Second there is the mom actively participating in the creation of the documentary to cement the false narrative surrounding the murders: her late husband was a hero and there was only one killer. And to some extent Podrick (I don’t remember his name in the episode) is rewriting the history of the town: he is framing the murders as an attractive feature of the town. But here is my theory: I think there is reason to believe that the son knew about his parents’ involvement and was willingly covering up the crime. First, there is his hesitancy not wanting to cover the crime in the documentary. Furthermore, it’s a bit strange he has never told his girlfriend about the murder, considering how important it was to his childhood. Second, when he finally tells his girlfriend the story at the pub, Podrick puts a lot of emphasis on the fact that the son is a good storyteller. As an audience we’re made aware he’s telling a story, not recounting history. Third, there are hints he is aware of the murder tapes. There is the obvious fact that he repeats his mom’s lie that they’re about some detective, which is a bit odd considering he must have seen them at some point. But the strongest evidence is when they are filming in the old house. He explicitly laughs about the fact that they’re filming over the ‘old detective tapes.’ This is a silly joke, but if he is aware of the murder tapes this has a double meaning. He is simultaneoulsy physically destroying the evidence of his mom’s guilt and creating a ‘definitive narrative’ on the murder, which will maybe be even more effective in solidifying their narrative. Finally, there is the end of the episode. We never see his reaction to the news that his parents were involved in the murder. This is a small one, but it leaves his knowledge of the matter open to interpretation. Do I think this makes the episode good? Hell no. But I do think it makes it a bit more interesting. The plot twist itself having a plot twist is also more old school Black Mirror to me. And I like the idea of reflecting on the narrative powers of of true crime. It is not simply that he is exploiting grief, but it begs the question who’s narrative is granted the power to spread through the media. This is also a theme in their meeting with the streaming service. True crime is interesting in that the narrative is shaped both by power, who can create and spread a narrative, and the interest of the audience, which narrative will stick. Anyway, you probably won’t read this, but love your video and love your channel. Cheers.

[@CarrotConsumer]

Interesting take mate.

[@hunnerrichau6799]

I understand your thoughts on iPhone TOS not allowing to make an AI show of your life / likeness in ‘Joan is Awful,’ but we are literally at a time where actors in SAG-AFTRA are on strike for their likeness being used from one day’s worth of work; and going even beyond that- as an Amazon labor organizer- Amazon delivery drivers and their TOS states not only Amazon’s inward facing camera can reflect and go on to use our likeness *but* that it can also use our very existence as a means of replicating / improving itself.

[@wellwell7950]

If you liked old Black Mirror for it psychological bent, a great series to check out is Inside No 9. It's a dark comedy anthology series like Balck Mirror. It's not technology orientated, however the stories are brilliant and can have interesting story telling techniques such as a silent episode, an episode written in Iambic Pentameter. The stories are often very dark, but are very thoughtful and emotional.

[@tubthungusbychumbungus]

The Bill was one of the most twisting, tense and brilliant pieces of writing I've ever experienced

[@FTZPLTC]

Whenever someone says anything bad about Black Mirror, the Inside No 9 fandom smell blood in the water and start to circle (I am one of them)

[@FairyBogFather]

yes! this show is both hilarious and gutting

[@wellwell7950]

​@@tubthungusbychumbungus very true Misdirection as well.

[@wellwell7950]

​@@FTZPLTC lol, yeah you are right about that

[@AkiVainio]

This is a common discussion I've had with certain people that used to be in my life: Me: "I don't like movie X." Them: "You just don't get it." Me: "I don't think that's true. I think I understand quite clearly what it's about, but I don't think it presents that well / I don't like the message." Them: "You just don't get it."

[@PauLtus_B]

I have another one: Them: "it's bad because X." Me: "X did not impact my experience." Them: "you're objectively wrong."

[@darius4405]

You really just don’t get it

[@naomipoop]

i think the other person sounds right

[@shortinsomniac76]

I have been on the other extreme like "getting it" isnt just understanding it...i cant explain but there are things that some people dont connect with and it isnt the medias fault

[@geekgroupie42]

if I hated all movies I didn't get I wouldn't like any movies!!!

[@TVBjak]

It seemed like most of these episodes’ endings were made by people who didn’t know how to end it but certainly wanted a twist/shock.

[@AnABSOLUTEBarbarian]

18:51 I LOVED Demon 79. If it is a back door pilot for Red Mirror, please give us more.

[@SomeOne-vf1rs]

What is red mirror?

[@AnABSOLUTEBarbarian]

@@SomeOne-vf1rs the new concept to contextualize elements of modern issues through a horror lens, like Black Mirror does with tech and Demon 79 did with racism.

[@youtubeuser1159]

It was the worst episode of the season IMO

[@roxerg]

I saw the ending of Loch Henry as pouring salt on the wound for the protagonist. He got the fame and recognition he was seeking by commercialising his own personal loss. I think that was quite well done.

[@InnuendoStudios]

he wasn't seeking fame and recognition, Pia was, he was actively resistant to making the more commercial film and wanted to do a doc on an egg guy

[@roxerg]

@@InnuendoStudios oh dang you're right

[@gracejung4070]

Relevant time stamps for the video 0:44 E2 - Loch Henry 5:00 Big Joel digresses to make a point on why he is weirdly obsessed with the themes of Black Mirror 7:14 E3 - Beyond the Sea (ft. Beach Big Joel) 15:15 E5 - Demon 79 (considered the best by Big Joel) 18:50 E4 - Mazey Day 21:34 E1 - Joan is Awful (ft. Old Stone Wall Big Joel)

[@Rangertom6]

Demon 79 is E5

[@gnatscrafts]

you rock

[@erinunrau6380]

13:18 watch an airplane slowly fly into Big Joel's head

[@danopticon]

I like Old Stone Wall, but Big Joel’s appreciation of “Joan is Awful” is awful.

[@giuthais]

@@erinunrau6380 🤣

[@Jurgan6]

I believe the technical term for "hand stuff" is "digital sex," i.e., using the digits of your hand. But these days, that would make most people think of cyber-sex.

[@reikowallach2465]

Best thing about the later season of Black Mirror was that they led me to search for something as good as the earlier seasons, and I got directed to "Inside No 9", which turned out to be an even better show.

[@72631]

mazey day IS so bad, but i have never been so tickled by such a ridiculous twist in my life. like what a way to give up on such a straightforward story

[@rare_edamimi_fangirl]

It isn't even really a twist, at least to me. I swear it was SO obviously foreshadowed that she was a werewolf, that even going into the episode knowing people consider it one of the worst, I thought "Surely the twist involves her _not_ being a werewolf, right???". But no. She was a werewolf. Despite how obvious it was. And at that moment, I fully understood (even more than I did from my boredom throughout the episode) why people hate this one. Easily the worst Black Mirror episode, it's not even close.

[@kriminal7009]

I feel like shows today, when they want to tackle an issue or theme, try to leave it morally ambiguous. I imagine it the creators think it’s “deeper” but really it comes across as vacant; as art that tried to do something but refused cross the final finish line. You can use show not tell to indicate deeper systemic themes, or even to show what specific things you want to be seen as good or bad.

[@catelynh1020]

I think it's just the pendulum swinging the opposite way. Previously, all villains were inarguably evil so it was subversive to have a pitiful or even ambiguous villain. Like how disney must have twist villains now. By the same token, previously the theme was in your face and obvious, very "tell the audience the theme" type content. But some stuff that had ambiguity got popular and so now everyone and their mother is trying to hop on the bandwagon. Which also means a lot of creators don't really get it so can't do it well.

[@TheBoboSamurai]

Hmm I'm not sure that whole perspective holds up for me, perhaps it is my individual bias. When I think of art and stories across time, I see it as primarily morally ambiguous. Personally, I believe art is inherently amoral; morals are created in a moment of action between differing agents; Morality in art is found in the subjective interpretation, i.e. projected between the observer and object. When I consider great stories across history I see nuanced pieces that beg to be interpreted in ways that reflect the complexity of life. Of Mice and Men, Hamlet, Oedipus, A Raisin in the Sun, the Bible, Tao te Ching, the Epic of Gilgamesh, the original Brother's Grimm fairy tales, The Idiot, 100 Years of Solitude, etc. These works can be interpreted depending on the context and individual's perspective. They stand the test of time because they reflect the nuance of time; great works, works that "cross the finish line of art", allow ambiguity. Even something like the painting Guernica. Personally, the problem for me is how black and white stories are. It seems so much art is created with a moral stance loud and clear. For me, that stuff is barely art: it's propaganda. Art is not a moral weapon, when it's used as such it becomes boring. I get the feeling that the Black Mirror writers consistently are foaming at the mouth for something to stand for/against. They feel desperate to be profound but lack any tact, nuance, or feeling. Imho. I agree that Black Mirror often fails to show and not just tell. That's it, that's my rant.

[@claudiag.9307]

​@@TheBoboSamuraiI wonder what makes you say that about Brother Grimm's stories, I understand them to be very moralizing and black and white

[@kriminal7009]

@@TheBoboSamurai With all due respect I think you somewhat missed what I was saying here but I’ll expand it. I’m a believer in modern art, actually. I love art that is ambiguous, I love art that questions what even is art, or what can and can’t count as art. For me, as started in the original comment, it’s about whether or not a goal is achieved. I love Rothko not because it’ll make me cry, but because it makes me think about why it makes me feel a certain way. I love knowing about his life before he painted each of his paintings because it adds depth and allows me to have my own thoughts. My problem with modern 21st century *SHOWS,* is that often times a show has a goal as art, but fails to satisfy the premise. Of Mice and Men satisfied its artistic goal to make one consider perspective and how these experiences limit human lives in the current systems. If you want to make art with the goal of “making you think (even if it’s something as morally basic as the trolly problem)” then it should an give you the critical pieces for it. This book set this up and demonstrates the themes of having a mental handicap, of being poor etc. It has darker elements and things don’t work out, but that doesn’t mean the book is morally absent. We are supposed to feel sorry for Lennie’s death even if he killed another human due to limitations and lack of support that could have prevented such an outcome. The book makes us feel emotions, open our eyes to how these systems affect us and even asks us if Lennies death was justified. This is a classic work because it stood the test of time. I am sure there are plenty of bad artworks from that time that tries and failed to tackled the same themes. Not all art is created equal either; see mediums like video games, movies, novels, songs etc. Without getting into media studies, Noam Chomsky, neoliberal economics and bunk, many artist today believe in a weird anti-skepticism. That instead of denying experiences to seek a fundamental truth, people instead believe everything is true and legitimate. There is a difference between ambiguous modern artworks (ex. A literal Urinal, Piss Christ) that seek to invoke questions in viewers, and art that refuses to approach anything even though their goal is to approach something and beg questions from audiences. 21st century shows are more focused on not saying anything, not taking stances, than making art that has actual ambiguous/grey morals that make us question things. ADDITION: With classical works, yes you can read them however you want but that’s always difficult. Our perspective on Achilles and Patroclus’s relationship is vastly difference from the context of the Greeks than even the translators who put it into English. What would be wrong, however, would be to assume that my perspective is always correct, as well as always equal to other answers. Broken record a bit, but poems are ambiguous so as to draw different emotions like a Rothko, but they aren’t always so empty to have no implications, or no suggestions at all. That’s what critical media studies is about; nuance, but not in a way that creates neutrality or nullifies the possible original message of the work. Death of the Author can be fascinating in cases where people may pull the “wrong” meaning from a work like how N*zi horror can become aspirational. Skepticism involves opening one’s ear: listening to answers, to knowledge, to art, to emotions, only the to deny all perspectives until you reach either an agreement or a truth; one which may never come. Not that I’m gonna die on the hill that is skepticism, but still. Even now I don’t think I’m right, and reading your comment has helped me further explain somewhat of what I originally meant. I also would be forgiving of the self and of others since we can’t help what we don’t know of course.

[@tempesttossed6029]

Agreed. The best episodes were the ones that had a clear stance to take on the subject that it depicted. The worst episodes were those that had no strong stance by the end. The best imo being Demon76 and Loch Henry (tho LH is simultaneously good and also disgusting for the fact that it is distributed by Netflix, a company that spits in the face of the morals Loch Henry abides).

[@IlNeige]

I will show up a tiny bit for Maisy Day being so pulpy with its twist. The ending is still dumb as hell, but using a werewolf as a metaphor for media provoking the worst behavior out of celebrities could’ve had legs.

[@HellyeahRook]

I thought the guy didn't want them to investigate it because he didn't want the main character to find out that not only was his hero father a serial killer, but so was his mother. I think that is a MAJOR point of the show you completely missed - and I think it's a big aspect on the theme of the show. The main character ended up losing everything, his mother, the image of his her cop father, and his girl friend - in the pursuit of the documentary. I don't think that necessarily debunks your entire argument, they really could have done more, or told the story differently to show the damage true crime does and still keep the overall theme, but I still think you missed a big point that does add substance to the theme. Making it more entertaining. Oh and you missed the part where they did manufacture crime scene evidence collection film for the documentary. Which that happens in irl true crime shit!

[@user-bn6ht5eg4q]

He didn’t know anything about his parents crimes though?

[@digapygmy70]

Demon 79 is one of the best Black Mirror episodes imo, and it’s kind of unbelievable it came from this season

[@fightvale57]

I thought so as well!😊

[@benaloney]

I thought it was kind of a grim message, “killing is the only way to change this world”… I know that’s a simplistic take, but that’s what I got from it…

[@fightvale57]

@@benaloney I mean the Bible is chocked full with that message but people seem to love that book. It was a fun cheeky episode to me,I did take it to have a real message.

[@SparkzMxzXZ]

I generally never enjoy any black mirror episodes but my sister was watching this in the living room and i ended up watching it with her and really enjoying it. The main cast members had great chemistry and the setting felt realistic yet off in some ways, which made for good watching

[@sterlnggrzzly7127]

It was a comedy though. It was such a Black Mirrorn't, despite being a good piece of media. It had nothing to do with Black Mirror.

[@idontwantahandlethough]

I suppose you could always go the exact opposite direction and call it "fingerblasting"..

[@joesizzle10]

One major problem I had with this season was that a lot of episodes took place in the past. I thought Black Mirror was supposed to be a show about how we use technology in the modern world, and where it may lead us in the future. To make an episode that takes place 50 years ago, takes awaay from the overall message of the show. In the first couple seasons (pre-Netflix buyout) every episode left me feeling like dystopia was just one technological advancement away. It was real, and often left me thinking that this dystopia was entirely possible. You could see how humans would want to be able to replay their memories, or block people in real life. In episodes like Beyond the Sea it makes me wonder what the point of it was, this never happened, and never will happen. It's lost a lot of what gave it its identity. It's just a bad Twilight Zone now.

[@mybrotherinchris]

the word for hand sex is handilingus

[@wellwell7950]

I always thought with Beyond The Sea why wouldn't they put the robots in space, so that if something goes wrong no one d ies. I guess because then you wouldn't have a movie, but still.

[@Eyecyou64]

You would if they didn't know they were robots

[@wellwell7950]

@@Eyecyou64 eh?

[@evelynphipps610]

the whole point of having a crewed ship is in case they can't reach the computer or something goes wrong. If they could reliably use the robots in space, they wouldn't need the human pilots

[@wellwell7950]

@@evelynphipps610 what you said is nonsencial.

[@painfulelegy812]

@@wellwell7950 Its whhy autonomous cars don't work, and why automated power plants and factories still have people on the floor. These things are big, dangerous and you NEED someone on call to handle the situation if thhe tech is busted. Like... what do you do if the signals to the robots jam and they start going haywire? it takes a LOT of time and prep to get folk into space, and by that point the ship may be scuffed beyond repair. The only reason you'd not send someone in with the autonomous stuff is if you _couldn't_.

[@stellar1526]

I feel it's not unreasonable at all to ask about the themes of a Black Mirror episode, and to treat those as the end all be all of if the episode works. I don't think a work posing itself as provocative, satirical and even prophetic can pull the "it's not that deep bro." defence. Of course, you do need an actual story behind the themes so that you're not reading a tenth grade English essay on the big screen, but I digress. Great video Big Joel! Maybe let Medium Joel have a turn next time.

[@ardentspy]

if they're not that deep, they're just poorly written plodding thrillers.

[@sideways5153]

Yeah it’s either gotta be a decent thriller/horror or it’s gotta live up to its own pretentions. Failing at both just makes it kinda bad.

[@ericawasinger]

I'm so glad that you enjoyed demon 79, to me the episode really feels special and meaningful through its characters who are so charming and real, some of the other characters in the other episodes just feel like stereotypes.

[@joshraid1550]

To do the slightest bit of Mazy Day apologia, the whole thing about the werewolf is that it's a big secret she's ashamed of, and the story basically makes it so that their downfall comes from prying into her secrets like this. So it could have worked as a concept with more meat on it. They stuck their nose where it didn't belong and suffered the consequences.

[@LON009]

When the pandemic started, I couldn't stand to watch BM anymore. It used to be like a cautionary tale, like saying "what an awful future these people live in". But in isolation, afraid of losing my loved ones, evading the news because they were too depressing, I realized we are now living an awful future, and if that's true, then, what's the point of Black Mirror? I doubt it's to tell us "it could be worse".

[@brandon9172]

Look in a mirror. You won't see the future, you'll see what is presently in front of it, being reflected back to you. The mirror could be broken, it could reflect back a distorted image that looks nothing like what's in front of it, but it still reflects the present.

[@lefishe5845]

A world in a apocalypse needs no end of days preachers. No satire works in a world beyond satire. It's just a sad thing when a world is broken, to the point where the cautionary tales are worthless, as we've passed the threshold.

[@REY.3727]

bruh so edgy. the world is not all doom and gloom. the world is still a place that we all live in and there is still a use for science fiction in modern day. it isn't necessarily a warning, but a critique. the ideas explored in early Black mirror still hold up to this day, the world is not ruined lol

[@BunnyBoyMcGill]

​@@REY.3727ok cracker

[@salamantics]

@@lefishe5845I wonder if you’re quoting something regarding the end of days and preachers. In my view, even if it was the end of the world you would never escape street corner pastors wailing. Or at least insane homeless people for once being right in their signs about the end of man.

[@heatran1919]

Honestly the ending to Beyond the Sea irks me the most. Feel like Aaron Paul should have died on the space station after their big argument (either murder or even just an accident), leaving the other guy free to use his robot, living a lie with a stolen face while his new family is none the wiser until the mission ends and the cats let out of the bag

[@owangejewice]

I thought the fun house levels of blood on all the walls at the end of across the sea took me right out of the episode. Nothing to feel but laughter. What did Josh Hartnett do in the VERY limited time he had to kill the wife and son? He dragged their bodies from room to room to wipe their bleeding bodies all over the walls? For what purpose? It's like how a 4 year old thinks a house would look after a murder.

[@YourManAlexSmith]

My takeaway from the true crime episode was that after he got everything he wanted he had lost everyone close to him on the way. And that despite her being a horrible killer, the one who truly cared about him was his mum and her final act was to benefit her sons career

[@TheSorrel]

To me, this season fealt as if everyone in the writers room agreed to ditch Black Mirror and make a Horror Show instead, only the Author of Joan is Awful didn't get the memo.

[@Jormbis]

I love how it was this season that made people realize that we’re done with Black Mirror lol

[@LukasOfTheLight]

I think Charlie Brooker just doesn't want to write this show anymore. He wants to write demons and serial killers and stuff. Make something new, Charlie!

[@kosterblue4673]

People have a weirdly high tolerance for awful TV shows, especially if it was good once. My dad will literally watch 3 seasons of a show he genuinly doesn't enjoy just cause he's bored.

[@justinmiller2655]

@@kosterblue4673so many of the top ten movies or shows on Netflix are awful.

[@Fragenzeichenplatte]

Who realized that you are done?

[@HOTD108_]

Obviously you weren't paying attention to the discorse surrounding the last two seasons then.

[@HeHasNoName]

I had already forgotten abut the Maisey Day episode, and even when you started talking about it I couldnt remember a thing. Totally purged from my mind.

[@Maria-kv6qp]

I get very happy when a new Big Joel video pops up on my feed.

[@VoonNBuddies]

9:55 if sexual stimulation with your mouth is "oral sex" then it follows that sexual stimulation with your hand is "manual sex," of course.

[@Bigboigoinlong]

I will say that it’s pretty clear in Mazey Day that the girl turning into a werewolf is a metaphor for celebrity break downs due to drug abuse/psychotic breaks like Brittney Spears or other celebrities. It’s pretty obvious they were going for the exploitation and harassment from celebrity culture leading to suicides/drug addiction/death by overdose. I agree that the episode is not the best, but I don’t think that the whole her turning into a werewolf thing doesn’t make sense in the context of the episode. This episode came out after all of the Free Brittney stuff and that documentary about her, so it was very prevalent when the episode came out. I just don’t think they handled that subject matter well, and never really had any emotional reverence because you never got the perspective from the celebrity. Can you imagine how much better the episode would have been if it was from the perspective of Mazey Day herself instead? Maybe what they were trying to say would have been more impactful, and maybe people would have understood it better. What a missed opportunity, but they need a twist in every episode for some dumb reason.

[@lollybowser]

The concept was already diluted last season but now it feels mostly gone. It used to be a reflection on society and our growing over reliance on technology and where that could lead us to in a potential future. Not every episode was gold but it was still mostly solid. Now it feels like they're just throwing ideas around, doesn't matter if technology is even involved. "Only matters that there's a big twist". I feel some of these would be a better fit on Love Death Robots.

[@iamcitizen38]

"You can't theme your way out of boring storytelling," or I would say bad storytelling in general, is something I wish more filmmakers (and audiences!) would realize.

[@yukiandkanamekuran]

its giving me adult goosebumps vibes, but for modern people.

[@awsomeabacus9674]

re. Mazey Day, when I saw the shot of the sky light and the full moon, I literally said out loud to myself "For a moment I thought she was going to be a warewolf lol" and then she waas a fukin warewolf

[@adamjscarborough5600]

It’s funny you noted the award as a mask as related to the mother’s mask - as someone from the UK, this doesn’t read as well and I never made that connection. That award is a BAFTA, a British Academy of Film and TV Award, so it’s like him holding up an Oscar, for UK watchers that mask aspect isn’t really so obvious.

[@Schmidtelpunkt]

There might be a little irony in there, but it is just the biggest media award in the UK, so there weren't that many options anyway...

[@adamjscarborough5600]

@@Schmidtelpunkt right - but they could have easily chosen/made up their own award, there’s no real reason to choose a BAFTA. I do think there’s something in Joel’s point about the award being an analogue of his mothers mask but I definitely didn’t read it that way, I think it’s just another example of how heavy-handed and basic black mirror has become.

[@tylershadlow5792]

There's no connection, Big Joel just didnt' know what it was and made a up a connection. I like the videos but he does just spout some crap sometimes

[@drpepper342]

Big Joel's description of the werewolf episode made me genuinely smile I love werewolf twists in serious tv shows

[@nont18411]

14:04 One could say the same about Breaking Bad. The implications of Andrea’s death was never seen through the perspective of Brock, Andrea’s son, but instead seen through the eyes of Jesse Pinkman (who is also played by Aaron Paul). I know that it’s because of a limited run time but it’s kind of a missed opportunity.

[@ExpertContrarian]

Wow, you’re so right! Why were the show runners so dumb to show it through the eyes of one of the main characters?

[@nont18411]

@@ExpertContrarian It’s just my opinion. Don’t be so offended about it.

[@ExpertContrarian]

@@nont18411 don’t be offended by me responding to your opinion

[@ernie39]

I haven't watched Beyond The Sea but I dig your interpretation of it/the ideas you present! When you were first describing the premise I thought: (1.) the two protagonists' human bodies are on Earth while their robot bodies are in space (which makes a lot more sense imo) and (2.) that, as robots in space, the two are lovers, while as humans on Earth they're married to their wives and continue to practice/uphold the values of the patriarchy. Honestly I would love to see a story with a premise like that explores themes like disposability and sexuality within the patriarchy!

[@carodame9419]

That was my first question. Why did they yeet themselves into space when they have perfect robots

[@VoltaVoid]

I mean, they did try the second premise with the VR episode in the last season, Striking Vipers

[@idontwantahandlethough]

that'd be super interesting, i'd definitely watch that! And you know what? I would not be surprised if that was the initial idea until somebody pointed out that it might be too similar to that "two bros enter a video game virtual reality and realize they want to clap cheeks, but don't know how the hell to navigate the scenario emotionally" episode. I don't really think that's accurate in actuality (ha), but that's neither here nor there when we're dealing with Netflix (and esp Netflix Black Mirror).

[@ernie39]

@@idontwantahandlethough that would make sense! I forgot that was another episode concept until yours and another comment mentioned it (I don't watch Black Mirror but I remember hearing about it); wish we could get the same level of rehashing/repetition of concepts for stories about queer characters as we could for (presumed) straight ones 😔

[@carlpanzram7081]

​@@ernie39the queer audience isn't big enough for mainstream media.

[@aila6814]

with that werewolf lady episode, it feels like they felt the need to try and point fingers at celebrities for wanting to be famous. like, theres this idea that celebrities consent to having their lives invaded because they are famous. the lady has to consent to her death being exploited in their mind because shes "famous".

[@chexfan2000]

some absurd paranoid part of my mind believes that the netflix algorithm figured out that i liked the miley cyrus episode more than anything else they’ve ever done and wanted to fully burn their bridge with me, because boy did the last of the good will i had remaining get drained for this exact reason. feels like a narcissistic outlook that resents celebrities bc they get endless “supply”

[@tempesttossed6029]

​@@chexfan2000What would be the point in an algorithm wanting to lose your views when the point of the algorithm is expressly to make sure people keep coming back and spending all of their time on something? I swear I'm not trying to be an ash-hole, I get these feelings too sometimes and have to reason it this way.

[@drunkard103]

the biggest question i have about beyond the sea is... if they have robot bodies you can control from halfway across the solar system, why aren't the robots on the space ship and the humans on earth? i understand that it's because the story... but if the story has such a glaringly obvious solution to the human loneliness, factor, maybe they shouldn't have made it :')

[@Mysterytour7]

I really like that you combined the silliest titles in Final Cut Pro.

[@dd123928]

I can't describe the betrayal that is opening this expecting Joel to share in my hatred of Joan is awful for being stupid bullshit only to hear him say he likes it

[@tempesttossed6029]

Same

[@kazooha524]

Saaaame. I honestly didn’t enjoy any of them as much as older episodes, but Joan is awful is easily one of my most hated ones

[@Misspol222]

lmao same

[@jordank4889]

it's crazy how good you made the Aaron paul episode sound, in the "Black Mirror sucks" video. It's so rare to have popular media even attempt to tackle these themes.

[@CaptainaMARIca]

I actually thought Beyond the sea was a great episode. While season 6 wasn’t the best, it was a standout.

[@shadyguy23]

I legitimately thought the episode was just...fine when I watched it, but somehow Big Joel describing why he doesn't like it actually made me like it more.

[@sheikneedles9250]

Popular media explores these themes all the time. There are literally thousands of shows that are really good and explore nuanced ideas nowadays

[@jordank4889]

@@sheikneedles9250 I guess I haven't been paying attention. What are some of your favorites?

[@idontwantahandlethough]

FWIW, I think Aaron Paul acted the crap out of that role. He's surprisingly good at displaying complex emotions (or perhaps many simultaneous emotions) purely through facial expressions. Btw Is there an award for ugly-crying? Because Aaron Paul should *absolutely* be nominated for it

[@savvytries]

"fuckin oops"

[@Bailf006]

Demon 79 is a weird one, and it raises murder up as its investigation for the episode, and I think that's nice and interesting, but I struggle with the conclusions that I think it comes to, and I wanna explain that. Because of the supernatural elements of the episode, it quickly becomes a trolley problem, twice over. Pulling the lever, ending a life, is argued to be the moral actions in the episode. I agree, killing one guy saves the world, its moral to kill that one guy. But then, in case that wasn't good enough, it layers on another trolly problem, using the supernatural elements of the episode. "NOT killing this guy will cause a lot of suffering". The episode shows us that she is empowered to do something good, to protect the lives of people, some of whom are actually innocent, and she fails to do that. No good is done by the end of the episode. And that's all well and good, because she literally sides with the demon, she is shown to hold a morally problematic position, by the end of the episode, and that's fine, until we translate the meaning of that messaging into the real world, without supernatural elements. "doing nothing is the same as being evil, and this will end the world" is a pretty fine, moral message, one that I'm okay with, and I assume other are too, that's what I'm assuming the message was because I want to be charitable, but it also enables a very dangerous reverse read: "killing people you think will do harm is moral, and can save the world." I think that message is dangerous. Any justification to end a life, obviously, has danger associated with it, people who will use that message to do harm, and then attempt to justify it, but I find it problematic that the show presents this justification as explicitly moral. It frames our knowledge about people as obvious ("haha, isn't this guy so evil? he would DEFINIELY do evil things in office! :D"), and then asks you why you don't kill those obviously bad people. It's not just giving you justification, its arguing FOR your justification. The episode is going on and enabling that justification. I had fun with the episode, but if I am right about the read I have on its moral questions, I think the messaging of it is actually really problematic and actually quite dangerous. Id hate someone to take away the message that YOU took away from the episode, Joel, "That we can justifiably kill those conservative politicians" is a truly terrible thing to be preaching. Murder, as it turns out, is morally problematic, and preaching a supposed moral justification that allows you to kill people is always evil. I definitely have concerns about you, given that you seem to be *okay* with murder being a take away of the episode, but I've watched a lot of your content, and I tend to like it, so I don't think you actually believe murdering people can be morally justified without a supernatural trolly problem, but I would urge you to think more carefully when presenting an idea like "its okay to murder certain people", even when those people are cartoonish evil, because once you strip away the cartoon stuff, and the supernatural elements, the message thats left over is almost always problematic.

[@FortoFight]

In the astronaut one I actually thought initially that they were going into a simulation rather than taking over robots because that both makes more sense to me and seems more interesting.

[@returnalnocturnal7729]

To you tho. That's the problem you and Joel have. you guys think you're right. Viewer watch retention for this season disagrees

[@wellwell7950]

To me it doesn't seem more interesting but the obvious logical approach to have the robots in space. It's less interesting as then there would be no movie.

[@FortoFight]

@@returnalnocturnal7729 I don't think either of us "pretended we were right" lmao. Is giving your opinion and acknowledging that its your opinion the same as acting like yours is the only correct one?

[@prismological]

@@returnalnocturnal7729That isn’t a very unique position to have. I think most people think they are right

[@vulpesmacrotis1990]

@@returnalnocturnal7729Literally every person thinks they’re right you dunderhead

[@shroomer8294]

Ive only ever watched one episode of black mirror and it had a little robot dog that pulled out a knife and I liked that. I don’t remember the episode but the robot doggy was very cute. Good robo dog 10/10

[@RemiDobbs]

With beyond the sea I just was really hung up on the fact that the guys who kill that guys wife are just literally a bunch of ppl doing a Manson Family routine and like....are we ever gonna move past that image? this happened 50 years ago. Were brits in the 60s deathly afraid of and constantly remaking Jack the Ripper movies as much as Americans do, where every home invasion movie also leans on the fear of what if the hippies...took your family hostage

[@jeremysmith4620]

Beyond the sea just feels like the classic "fridging" trope from comics, the women in the episode and the trauma/violence they experience only serve to push the narrative of the male characters. There maybe could have been something more interesting and redeeming here about how the characters treat women like robots, while their consciousness inhabits a robot, only to serve them and normalize their more important male existences as typical masculine hero archetypes which would align great with the astronaut premise. The episode could have tried to say something meaningful about technology, about someone stripping the agency from actual human beings while asking if those male characters still qualify as human beings in that state of long distance existence, but nope. They didn't do that. They just fridged the women and thought, yeah this is good, lets put this on Netflix. Bleh.

[@neverhave]

Length is THE thing I've had an issue with since the very first season of black mirror. A runtime of hour+ adds too many superfluous elements, too many opportunities for the metaphors to collapse under their own weight. The twilight zone is 30 minutes long, learn from this.

[@HeisenbergFam]

Only Big Joel casually returns after a month just to almost give you a heart attack with the intro, cheers

[@user-burner]

hey heisenberg please comment less

[@tyv5513]

Id love to see you speak about the old black mirror like White Christmas and the entire history of you, 2 amazing episodes that are so good you will hate tech and be depressed as it makes you feel it. That would be great as before it became Americanised the show was a British masterpiece and I can’t recommended them two episodes enough

[@PurgPurg]

21:34 “oh how nice it is to be at the ol’ stone wall” this killed me for some reason

[@lilyhorrorpictureshow3745]

I actually liked the twist of Maisie Day. I concluded that the message was that you never know what’s actually going on in a stranger’s life. You can speculate on it with what little you know, but you never actually actually fully know what they’re going through. We all think we know everything about celebrities because we see these tiny glimpses of their lives but we don’t see the big picture.

[@Not_Always]

They certainly chose the dumbest way to relay that message.

[@silverxstar01]

That's what I got out of it, too. It's just a very weak theme compared to Black Mirror's more high-concept fare.

[@lilyhorrorpictureshow3745]

@@silverxstar01Maybe but the theme of parasocial relationships is more prevalent than ever. Or idk maybe I just like it cuz there’s werewolves

[@bassdasdwadsasdasw]

I think the word for hand sex is digital sex since you use your digits (fingers)

[@audiosurfarchive]

nice

[@Zindaras1]

I really liked the comparison to whodunits around 5:04 because it highlights why some recent scary media hasn't worked for me: the ending seems like it's trying to disguise that the author ran out of ideas somewhere in the middle and is hoping you won't pick up on that. Just watched Skinamarink last night and spent the entire time hyperfocused on the shapes in the darkness and fully committing to the experience only to have the ending be so pointless that it turned all of that into wasted effort. (I also watched a few Explained type videos and none of them shared anything i had missed, they were basically just plot summaries, lmk if there's anything else better out there.) *Spoilers below* Like, it was such an interesting idea to have an all-powerful reality warping entity messing with the kids in the same way that the filmmaker is all-powerful in deciding what to show the rapt audience, but if both of them end up being so creatively bankrupt that all they can think of using their infinite power is to torture the kids for a really long time and then kinda disappear/depersonalize them... What's the point!? 😑

[@katiemckinney9456]

I can think of far more creative ways for a reality-warping entity to mess with a couple of random people. Just mildly inconvenience and annoy them at every possible opportunity. Steal only the right sock from each of their pairs. Make their soda immediately lose all the fizziness once the can is opened. A powerful entity who uses that power to do extremely petty stuff is far more interesting than "ooooh, I'm all-powerful and you can't outwit or get rid of me in any way! I'm gonna torture you for centuries! Look at how cool and awesome I am!"

[@Zindaras1]

@@katiemckinney9456 EXACTLY, THANK YOU

[@joenappi8459]

The twist being “they’re a werewolf” is surprisingly common and is a plague. Not even Tales From The Crypt or Clive Barker were able to save it, both of them side with Black Mirror on it just being crazy that there’s a werewolf.

[@infinite_array]

Wait, I don't get the robot body episode. Why didn't they just reverse positions? It'd be way easier to put the robots in space and keep the squishy humans on Earth.

[@dr.scrapjack2045]

Never seen the episode so idk if there is an explaination, but the first thing that comes to mind to me is the inevitable transmission lag, which is not that big of a deal if you have to spend leisure time with the family but it can be if you are remote-controlling a billion dollars worth of spacecraft.

[@SantosAl]

They are testing what the long term effects of space travel can have on the human body.

[@CinnamonQuills]

I liked the first episode of the season (Joan is Awful), it was funny (in the second half), layer-ish and very Classic "This is holding up a BLACK MIRROR to our lives, GET IT??", and I *really* liked the last episode of the season (Demon 79), but I attribute that liking pretty much entirely in both cases to the strength of the performances of the actors. None of the themes and stories of the episodes in the season SUPER gelled and connected, but of them, those two came the closest and were entertaining anyway.