5 Obsolete Mechs of MechWarrior Online

Once the kings in their respective playstyles or classes, these mechs have since fallen to second or even lower classes due to changes in MWO. This in depth review goes over what brought these mechs to power and what lead to their demise.
Original DS footage: • Mechwarrior Online - V...
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[@hf117j]

This, my friends, is why you NEVER play mechwarrior just to play the latest meta. It will always change. Just play a mech you like and get good with it. Then you'll be ripping everything to shreds, even the meta builds. I spent hours practicing my aim with ER PPC's holding ER Large Lasers on target for full damage, and hitting all my LBX 10 shots for maximum damage until I got a 100% accuracy rating in the testing grounds survival mode (Mechs rush you, you kill them.) and target practice (Mechs go side to side, one good hit will kill them). Average game is anywhere between 2-3 kills and 400+ damage on a win while surviving the entire round, or getting absolutely stomped by focused fire because my team spread out too wide... but getting stomped with over 100-200 damage and a kill thrown in half the time. So as long as you git gud with your mech and understand how to play that mech you'll wreck shop.

[@PitFighterPlus]

Exactly what I did. I picked the Raven and Hunchback all the way back in '14, and been piloting them ever since

[@willh8950]

PitFighterPlus Love all of my little Hunchies, they may not be meta, but they are mine! Tbh, Hunchback pilots are getting kinda rare now-a days (unless they are 2c’s)

[@chrisparsons2791]

I agree Magic Man, 'So long as you git gud with your mech and understand how to play that mech you'll wreck shop'.

[@LtDan-gt6vz]

Amen brother. I've a MCII-B and use a UA/C 20, LBX-20, ER Large Lasers and LRM-10s. I get told constantly against a comptent player I'll get shredded. I get around 200 damage and a kill or two. Suck it metagamers.

[@basteagui]

it also depends on how well you build any given mech. magic builds absolutely exist. and you need to min max some mechs to the nth degree to make them competitive. the dragon and the awesome are good examples

[@whitebear8472]

Ah the good old days when mechs were actually slow and cumbersome and we had cool night vision -.-

[@josepablolunasanchez1283]

It is like WWII, battles will never be like they were.

[@BlackhawkSC]

Hey everyone. A lot of you mentioned the Warhawk. It's not on this list because it was never a top tier assault mech.

[@Supercohboy]

Sick burn.

[@kluas948]

Excellent historical perspective on MWO. I can't believe it's been 4 years since I last played MWO. I totally remember the Dragon Slayer being awesome.

[@theoriginalcheebamech]

/looks at Dragonslayer in mechbay, /cries

[@thehighwayman3122]

You think you got issues? My precious Highlander IIC was DOA because of what the Dragon Slayer did.

[@theoriginalcheebamech]

At least clan mechs are somewhat viable, ol' Victor should be euthanized

[@Xetelian]

You think you have it rough? I have a Heavy Metal, 330 engine cap and class 1 jumpjets. Can't move fast, can't jump high and can't carry any real firepower. I still run it once in a while for the war horn sound.

[@TemplarsWildFire]

Bull fucking shit! Clan mechs are NOT viable any fucking more. You fucking IS pansies!

[@pocketaces909]

Don't know if you have seen the results of the current MWO event.

[@Grottenolm]

7:25 YEAH, the old thermalsight :D It was so great.....

[@TheOtterpop]

Love your format.. great video and just love the editing as well

[@BlackhawkSC]

+OldBob 10025 thanks Bob

[@TheOtterpop]

Sorry I was watching and its awesome.. The music the clips etc and you talking on your subject.. Good editing

[@ThunderKat]

I was gonna say something different, but with that same meaning ;)

[@jbarton8508]

BH, great vid. Very thoughtfully done.

[@imglidinhere]

MWO isn't how Battletech is supposed to be played anyway. :P I like the concept of MWO, but because it's F2P, the views of what make a game 'competitive' are... not in line with how Battletech is competitive. It rewards tactical placement, also having a balanced loadout is always more advantageous than having 5 of the same weapon on every mech in the roster.

[@alexanderhogan4546]

Agreed. I like the Crusader CRD-3R from the 1985 rules. It only has 10 heat sinks but the variety of weapons means it can combat at any range with hardly any heat. Also it's armoured and has average heavy mech mobility. However, in MWO I find you need far more heat sinks than heat gen to combat said heat generation.

[@foofoo3344]

the new strategy game Battletech is about management skills. MWO is more about careful shooting or if you're a bastard, do the cheap trick of camping with Artemis LRMs and a Tag laser.

[@alexanderhogan4546]

True, but the statistics should be the same, so 3 heat sinks should sink a single medium laser every time it fires, no more, no less.

[@foofoo3344]

@Aeiou So you saying you want to be able to control Tanks, Armored cars and etc. in addition to the Mechs. There isn't a FPS/ 3rd PS Battlemech game like that but the closest would be Mechcommander 1 & 2. I've played Mechcommander 2. It's a RTS game and there are Artillery vehicles, Repair Vehicles, Mine sweepers and etc. but those are more like limited "power" where you spend mission given resources to deploy. You don't get to customise them. It's the closest I can think of. It's also an old game so might be tricky to get it to work.

[@foofoo3344]

​@Aeiou You're definitely right. Oh wait!!! I just remembered something!!!! Cyberstorm 2 : Corporate War. You can buy tanks, mechs and flying thingies and customise them. Customisation is limited to how much tech you have researched. However, the game lacks tank and flyer variety (there are only a few). You must also take note that there has never been any badass tanks in any games in the Battletech universe. In fact they created mechs to surpass tanks. One more thing to note is that Cyberstorm 2 can be moderately a short game and is somewhat mediocre. It's got nice ideas but the graphics does not look polished compared to the first game. Missionforce Cyberstorm was my first introduction into the Battletech universe. I briefly lost contact it during the "Tribes" games. Didn't get to play Tribes.

[@johntucker23]

It's the worst part of gaming now that people analyse things so much they end up not using most of the stuff in a game so they can use the "best" stuff...not liking what gaming has become.

[@PitFighterPlus]

The "Meta" mindset is what is wrong with people. "I want to win, therefor I should use only the best stuff."

[@cpt.flinch3930]

That the biggest problem i have with this channel.

[@ghoulbuster1]

You joking? you would must be an idiot to not use the best gear for the job, the only reason to use shitty mechs/builds is for troll builds, yea they are fun, but then complaining that people with better mechs kill you? LUL

[@FunkyBaconArts]

I would put honorable mentions to the Heavy Metal, Ilya Muromets and the Stalker 3F before quirks were introduced and made the 4N the better choice despite the lesser torso twist range. And maybe even the Catapult if we go really far back.

[@chriswilliams5569]

Great presentation. Although I disagree on some the points on your list. Planning on sending a list of my own tomorrow. Keep up the good work.

[@BlackhawkSC]

+Chris Williams thx

[@oliverhaake7552]

Good analysis and I agree on every of those five mechs. I don't regret that the 3D and the DS are not meta anymore. It was that poptarding time which made me think to quit MWO. There variaty of mech chassis used was never bigger than today, even if that means that many of the former "champions" are outclassed today. And of course some chassis were never popular from the start. I would like to see a video to this topic as well. Thanks for your work. :-)

[@mikewhitaker2880]

we are still missing soo much in MWO though.. where are triple strength myomers to run with MASC.. where is MASC on many of the mechs to begin with.. only a tiny handfull even get them... how about a proper melee system as well.. i miss the Highlander having an axe.. for that matter where is its little brother the Hatchetman.. theres at least one mech with a sword too... maybe its too much to ask as other more vital areas of the game are still broken.. like heat management and its bandaid..GHOST heat....

[@ElcomeSoft]

Oh how this has fallen... like most mechs when a Dragon ran into them.

[@MrEric622]

Dragon bowling!

[@ElcomeSoft]

@@MrEric622 glad to see people are still using the term 'Dragon bowling' even after this long

[@MrEric622]

@@ElcomeSoft played MWO since the beginning, but I fell off the wagon.

[@ElcomeSoft]

@@MrEric622 I was in the closed beta back in the day. Late 2012, I think it was. Then I quit because I saw the direction PGI was heading with it.

[@poplil3934]

@@ElcomeSoft im a new player, just joined 2022. Care to tell me more? Even if its long

[@agarceran]

No mention of the ERPPC Thunderbolt or the insane Medium Pulse Laser Thunderbolt? Those were the only mechs you would see in IS drop decks for a while.

[@josepablolunasanchez1283]

A good pilot with obsolete equipment will always do better than a bad pilot with the latest equipment.

[@alekseydegterev1395]

I have 2 mechs on the stalker chassis. The first one shoots 6 heavy lasers without penalty, not as good as I would like, but I won't say that it's bad. "Ears" are often demolished, this is a big problem of this chassis. The second SRM boat, a very cheerful melee mech, pumped it very quickly. Probably one of the most fun assaults that I have.

[@MajCyric]

Well the cataphracts did get some love lately... with the armor buffs, making the 3D, 1X, and 2X useable again... I love my cataphracts.. I own all of them.. and the 3D was the IS version of the TBR, and it's still good at ridge peeking using it's ST mounts (mine using AC10 and 2 LPL's)

[@krocodockle2544]

great content thank you!!

[@jensjensen7462]

pretty interesting content. thx 🍻

[@user-qt9vn1yj8x]

Totally forgot about HGN-733C and all other Highlanders. Back in the days, it was an ultimate poptard. Nowadays, HGNs gather dust. No any reasons to bring 'em on battlefield: they are tall, bulky, slow, not enough armament and so on...

[@JStar1337]

my poor Heavy metal... :(

[@zachklopfleisch8501]

Yep, the Dragon Slayer was just a replacement for the -733C in comp play after it got nerfed.

[@Getdunkjam]

the video itself is obsolete now with civil war tech giving new life to many mechs cataphract is actually quite popular nowadays

[@BlackhawkSC]

+hoko popular doesn't mean it's not obsolete. Currently there's still nothing that the CTF 3D is the best at

[@Getdunkjam]

oh yeah? find a heavy mech that runs double uac10 better than 3D. thats right theres none. every other mech jams like a bitch because they have no jam quirks, and those that do, like Jagermech, have shit hitboxes and no armor, while cataphract has atleast 100 frontal CT armor. thanks to it's quirks, 3D has no competition at brawling with big UACs (10 and 20) which without jam chance quirks are otherwise useless

[@BlackhawkSC]

Ebon Jag, Night Gyr, Black Widow, now the Sun Spider.... All can carry 2xUAC5 and a UAC10, which has better DPS than 2xUAC10 even with the jam chance quirk. Not only that, but they carry the ACs in better hardpoint locations.

[@LtDan-gt6vz]

I use the cataphract 0X (stealth varient) and usually use gauss or uac20 with medium lasers to scare the hell outta people.

[@Nikolay_Grigoryev]

Cataphract is not absolite, especially when playing as a group. The two torso mounts allow you to fire over the heads of friendlies making it very useful when grouped up. Also the arms are huge and make it easy to soak up damadge.

[@ProPotato]

Semi agree with the Dire Whale, still get mine out every time I jump online but unlike in the past where I'd change builds constantly these days I just leave it as x4 LB10X + x6 ER SML, still wrecks and makes the enemy back up. Guess I still like it so much because like the Timber Wolf it's a very versatile loadout mech. Still play it more than my KDK though.

[@TsorovanZero]

Interesting. A bit surprised I didn't see the Warhawk in there, but I'm positive it'd make a top 10 list.

[@BlackhawkSC]

WHK was never a top tier assault, that's why it didn't make it.

[@maclarenschell8855]

BlackhawkSC how about highlanders? I know that it's the same story as Victor essentially, but why not include it in a two way tie?

[@BlackhawkSC]

Mainly I didn't want to include 3 poptarts in this list. But the HGN has a couple of variants that are stronger than the Victors now like the 732 and 732B, which can both do asymmetric 3x(ER)LL Gauss builds.

[@maclarenschell8855]

BlackhawkSC true type for the response though it is slower.

[@GeminiBull]

nice video!

[@Sorain1]

I wonder, would you do an updated version of this video? I'd like to see 1-2 mechs in each tonnage band that used to be relevant and now are not.

[@BlackhawkSC]

These mechs are still obsolete. The KDK-3 may make this list if I updated it today. For lights, examples would be the Oxide and Ember.

[@harackmw]

Nice. Maybe a "Dead on arrival" video next? :D

[@BlackhawkSC]

That's a nice idea

[@JoshMD2009]

Here's what comes to mind immediately, in no particular order: 1. Phoenix Hawk 2. Archer 3. Mist Lynx 4. Ice Ferret 5. Gargoyle

[@maclarenschell8855]

Joshua Unsay gargoyle is good as a fast tank, lynx is a decent dps light, and the ferret is a great light hunter.

[@lord6617]

Is it weird that I like archers? If all you want is ballistics or wtfbbq laser vomit, there are better mechs, but I've had a lot of fun with mixed laser and missile builds, usually a quickly disposable supply of lrms in 5 or 10 packs and then plenty of ml or mpl.

[@R4V3-0N]

TBH I can't think of a single mech that was DOA... and +Joshua Unsay that list is a bit mind boggling.... Wasn't the Archer very successful and popular for LRm and SRM builds? Mist Lynx was popular for CW as it fills a tonnage slot not present previously and it's good JJ and SRM spammage allowed it to easily nail generators behind enemy lines / defencess Ice Ferret too since it hits the magical speed limit to literally run on walls over gates on several maps and it's high speed ensures it to be an amazing harraser or sniper. I average quite often when solo'ing on Faction warfare over a k or two of damage in the ice ferret alone with mostly precise PPC strikes to the enemy CT's and stuff. Phoenix hawk? can't comment, I haven't purchased it. Gargoyle? well I do not have it, planning to get it soon (30 dollars away), but I did use the trial variant which was the stock prime with it's pitiful ammo and even then I averaged 600 damage games in it, it's like a Stormcrow with double the armour. Nothing to scoff at really.

[@nomadchad8243]

I play my Jenner when i want to go hard mode. It has fallen from the best light to not good at all.

[@karlschluetz]

Nomad Chad It was mostly that damn size increase. So huge. Though the speed nerf didnt help either. My heart broke when those happened.

[@pendraco2000]

So "Size it should be" actually. it's a 30-ton robot, ffs. course, the Mech that REALLY needed the size up was the Firestarter. that thing was damn tiny for a 35 tonner. it was half the damn size of the Cicada, despite being only five tons lighter.

[@Akd71008]

I'm still really upset about Jenners not being good anymore. I take them out sometimes but they're just not the same since the resizing and movement archetype change :(

[@poplil3934]

Hi, I'm a new plyer. Care to tell me about it?

[@danielskrivan6921]

7:40 there was also no cockpit shake when poptarting, and Gauss+PPC shared a similar velocity profile as well.

[@BlackhawkSC]

Yep good point

[@zztophatzztophat]

Whoa, I had a 11/1 K/D ratio in my dragon slayer when I stopped playing, guess it's a good thing I stopped when I did. That thing was amazing in it's time only other mech I had that came close was the DDC at 8/1. I guess, thinking about it now, maybe the nerf was a good idea...

[@kingslaphappy1533]

Good vid. I would like to see an update to this list now that PGI has tweaked many mech since.

[@BlackhawkSC]

I might add the Timberwolf there, but it's still a decent mech. I feel the mechs on this list still fell the hardest. Black Knight also got hit pretty hard.

[@Fancypants117]

The Cataphract is still one of my best mechs, mostly cuz of it's shape I could displace damage better all over it better then most other mechs So while ya sometimes I was outclassed in a purely numbers battle, I could still take them down due to how well those low swinging arms can just act like great shields. Not so great exchanging at long range, better for a close melee

[@user-tj1qo7vw4y]

Posted right before the engine desync and the skill tree in the May patch. Those two changes have probably done more to shake up the status quo that anything before. Starting to see more Victors running about on the battle field and mechs like the Stalker are still very popular, particularly in Faction Play. In the end, it's really about what we each like to individually pilot, think is cool or just flat out enjoy. There are so many mechs in the game, so many possibilities. It's what we make of it.

[@BlackhawkSC]

So, obsolete doesn't have to do with how popular or how good (on the absolute level) the mech is. It's a pretty specific criteria. Obsolete means that it's relatively worse in every playstyle to some other mech, which the Victor DS and Stalker is still after the patch. You also may be seeing more Victors being run lately because the Victor's missile hardpoints have been fixed, so people want to try it out. I've ran Victors in the last week also for that reason.

[@melissaderp8357]

i remember when this game was actually good

[@codojuss2435]

I feel like clans ruined it all.

[@deepblue1846]

You clearly have a terrible memory..

[@QwertyCaesar]

I remember everybody complaining incessantly that the game was subpar and dying until PGI's split with IGP and then the introduction of things like quirks, CW, community events, improved earnings, new maps as well as substantially improved communcations and relations with the community almost immediately outside the game was breathing new life into the game. I guess that renaissance must've really short-lived. If I had to guess what happened I'd say it was too many clan mechs were introduced too quickly (they were pushing it already with Wave II so early) and that they didn't introduce quick match queues that balanced for clans and IS.

[@maygayming5275]

I used to be godlike in the 7F, and 3D. I also had a Blackjack variant similar to the Arrow or whatever the premium one was long before it came out.

[@dimitris355]

moral of the story: never invest real money on the mechs of today as they will get obsolete by the mechs of tomorrow by PGI...

[@Drgunzo616]

Yep I got sucked into buying their mech packs. 2 months later they are mothballed by the newest meta. 140 mechs and 3/4 of them are basically useless.

[@Logan912]

Granted, that's going to happen anyway is it progresses through the Battletech timeline.

[@dimitris355]

if this process took place without newest mechs being buffed just long enough to be sold then i would be on board. But PGI does what is necessary to boost sales....

[@hf117j]

Not really... PGI essentially tries to make every mech perform as it's meant to without giving an unfair advantage to any one type of mech. Just because you suck too much to understand how to MAKE your mech get kills and do damage doesn't mean they're forcing your mech to be useless. I mean for fucks sake, I pilot the same Shadowhawk build I've piloted since 2014 and I have been kicking serious ass with it. Those mechs are only obsolete for pilots who rely more on OP gear rather than skill. It's like people who would complain about not having a nuke when they have infinite airstrikes in call of duty. Just lazy people with little to no skill or knowledge of the game.

[@Anaximander29A]

Yeah, let's make all new mechs worse than the old ones, so nobody buys them. I think it is more a problem of people who have only fun when they can powergame. Had a few +700dmg games with the years old cataphract hero Ilya muromets yesterday for example. Just 2lb10x and 3 med laser and an xl340. Or also a few similar (800-900dmg) games with the "obsolete" dire wolf and just 6 ultra/ac2. None of those games were inbalcanced. The new quirks and powergaming mechs (double heavy gauss builds etc.) might be awesome and maybe in some cases they are also stronger than the old ones. But the differences aren't really that huge. I think positioning, tactics and communication are still the main factors that let a team win.

[@mwobeardoom3918]

I was Clan oriented, and when I started to buy IS, I didn't stop question, "Why snyone buy this crap mech's???". I have 50/50 IS/Clan, mechs in bey, only becouse of new tech to come.

[@loReZize]

Same here. Wait for updates. May be some of them will shine =\

[@VeroSatchiel]

Filthy clanners. You will never know the joys of popping fragile clan mechs in glorious steiner atlas, best scout mech in all of inner sphere

[@mwobeardoom3918]

I have 3 of them, and know to SCORH them every time!

[@nip3004]

VeroSatchiel please tell me you at least fit a standared. so many idiots are packing xls into their atlas that I no longer even bother shooting the CT. not to mention I have more headshots against the Atlas than any other mech.

[@VeroSatchiel]

what... who the fuck runs xls on slow is assaults? Also, how do you not have more headshots on something with a fuckhuge hit box like the hunchback?

[@danielskrivan6921]

4:00 what boosts were there to IS weapon base values? I think I was gone when this happpened.

[@BlackhawkSC]

Most notably the higher damage and lower heat LPLs which they later scaled back in 2017. SRMs had a spread reduction which combined with the IS structure quirks, improved IS brawling for a while.

[@hgbugalou]

when you said "Guas laser" it took me a second the think of the combo and I thought for a second there use to be a bombast laser in MWO.

[@BlackhawkSC]

There used to be a really popular weapon combination where you'd use long or mid range lasers and one or more gauss rifles. This combo has gone out of style now.

[@AronFigaro]

It's amazing how far the dragon slayer has come back up in the year since this was written.

[@BlackhawkSC]

I don't see them around at all

[@josepablolunasanchez1283]

The obsolete Stalker is good to snipe old Atlas. And it is good as escort of an Atlas. Not the best for future eras, but for Clan invasion it was top notch.

[@Excalibaard]

Victors are getting an overhaul in one of the upcoming patches, in terms of graphics (standardised weapon look customisation), and hopefully with better quirks (though they might forgo that in favor of the new skills system).

[@BlackhawkSC]

One big thing they can do is to make the missile hardpoints 6+ tubes so if you're doing an SRM build, the missiles will come out at the same time. I believe they mentioned it will happen. It does also need better weapon quirks I agree. I hope they don't go with structure quirks since the Victor isn't supposed to be a very tanky mech in BT.

[@darrenskjoelsvold]

My demon direwolf build that I started using when the Annihilator came out with 2 UAC 20s and 2 LB 20s can not be done on a Kodiak. The bear just can't run that much firepower but the added speed and still strong firepower does basically mean that it is better but it still can't run my direwolf build.

[@Kna5041]

I am suprised you did not mention how resizing affected light mechs such as the jenner and firestarter. I would also say the introduction of ecm in 2012 also contributed to unseating the jenner. Though speed and lag could save a jenner, the ecm was brutally good and competitive players always had a raven 3l or atlas d-dc. Though not existing as long as poptarting, lrmageddon, knockdowns and repair and rearm costs also really shifted the meta.

[@BlackhawkSC]

Well in the MRBC matches of 2013, unless it was a ranged map the JR7-F was still used. The resize affected all the lights so it was a factor but not as large as others. It really was a nerf to lights in general.

[@JonathanHerz]

great vid, maybe time for an update!

[@jamestoby1149]

Funny how the Direwolf is making a comeback now

[@alexanderhogan4546]

Dire Wolf. I didn't buy it at all but I got the firepower up to 243.5 in an alpha strike, killing itself and an Atlas.

[@mr6johnclark]

It's 2018 and almost a year has passed since the 3060 patch any updates?

[@BlackhawkSC]

All of them are still obsolete, although if I made this today I'd probably add the Black Knight to it.

[@javierbartley2117]

What is the music that's playing? It good.

[@BlackhawkSC]

It was just an mp3 I had on my computer. I don't have an actual title for it except "background music" heh.

[@IrocZIV]

So many changes in the game. I agree with these choices in general. I wonder where the Spider fit into the rankings.

[@BlackhawkSC]

I think the Spider was only good on two occasions, first being when hitreg sucked, and second when the 5K was the MG crit king. In the first case, the SDR was good because of a game bug, not because of anything that has to do with the chassis itself. And the second case, the MG playstyle was good, but in QP, it wasn't the best light available.

[@Vorlonowns]

I still pull 1k+ damage in my dire, guess it depends on the pilot ;-p

[@BlackhawkSC]

The point is if you pull 1k+ damage with the Dire you'd pull 1.5 or whatever with some other mech in the same situation. As I said in the video several times, obsolete doesn't mean bad.

[@hf117j]

A lot of your audience didn't get the memo and immediately though most of the listed mechs were worthless and proceeded to bitch about PGI.

[@nathancardon233]

I totally disagree about comparing the Dire Wolf with a kodiak

[@VulpisFoxfire]

Soooo...basically it's actually following the tech line of the original Battletech, and showing which pilots have the real skill being able to defeat opponents using older gear as compared to the kiddies with the lastest shiny toys?

[@nip3004]

there is still one thing the dire does better than any other assault. leading a push with 8 lbx2 you draw fire like nothing else and you can easily suppress most of the enemy as they duck behind cover or twist away from the lbxs

[@JoshMD2009]

What about the Shadow Hawks? Weren't they considered the best mediums prior to the arrival of the Storm Crow? I've heard from other people (because I didn't start playing until last year, but it's nice to have a sense of history of MWO) that the arrival of the Shadow Hawk brought the medium class out of obscurity back then. Plus, there was one particular build (poptart AC 20 + PPC or Gauss + PPC, was it) which rivaled the CTF-3D and Dragon Slayer in effectiveness? I'd like to hear about your thoughts on this. :)

[@BlackhawkSC]

It definitely was the medium of the poptart era, but I didn't want to include too many of them and instead chose the DS and 3D as two main representatives. This is because I think the SHD wasn't as big of a force as the heavies and assaults were. Also one of the Shadowhawk variants, the 2D2, found its way back to being a pretty solid medium brawler in competitive matches recently.

[@JoshMD2009]

That's true. even now, it's still a pretty solid Chassis. Lots of people overlook it but when ignored it can even carry matches in PUG drops. :)

[@ikillstupidcomments]

Some of them are still good for hill-humping, and as mentioned the 2D2 is a good brawler-it was the answer to the Streakcrow scout meta.

[@mr6johnclark]

The interesting part is the status of these mechs will change AFTER the 3060 patch in July!

[@joshdykgraaf2161]

Interesting watch. I first played the game in Beta and for a while after release and came back a few months ago and have been playing solidly since - it was interesting to get a bit of the history of the balancing in the game too. Also, it's pronounced "dack-ah" not "daa-kah" :P

[@TheRedneckGamer1979]

Community: These mechs are no longer meta and are pretty obsolete Me: What is the dumbest thing I can do with this mech I put googly eyes on....

[@clerickolter]

Well I'm new to the game and found my nitch in light mechs over any others I like the speed in most cases, variety of builds and low cost to be an advantage and when done right you can exploit them. I like the game though and spend some money on it from time to time. And the players don't troll much and are nice from my experience which is refreshing.

[@BlackhawkSC]

We need more light pilots in the game too. If you play lights well, you're a huge asset to your team, more than any other individual mech

[@clerickolter]

I'm decent I just favor the sneaky small mechs that are fast and able to dance while exploiting each mechs build with focused skills.

[@TwiGuy4]

yep, stalker for sure, also dire is a bullet magnet

[@carom1]

Seeing jumpjets not be absolute trash triggers me. I miss the old game.

[@ricashbringer9866]

I still run the Jenner 7F (C). With the mew mech I gave it ER Medium lasers and backed the engine up to 141kph. It hit and runs with best of them. Time for a new video I think.

[@BlackhawkSC]

Still outclassed by the Jenner IIC-A with better range (ERML) or damage (MPL) or the ACH with ECM and better range. On the IS side the WLF-2 is a better striker because of toughness and weapon quirks.

[@starbomber]

Cataprhacts did get a nice structure buff, so the 3D is useful as a brawler nowadays.

[@BlackhawkSC]

I think the 2X can brawl better than the 3D honestly and the 2X isn't one of the better IS heavy brawlers. That'd probably go to the SRM Catapult and AC20/SRM Orion.

[@oliverhaake7552]

My favorite Cataphract brawler is the 0XP, obviously because of the ECM. It gives you and your team a huge tactical advantage. Especially when I play with a full lance of 70 ton mechs (+/- 5 tons) at a speed of 70-80 kp/h. You show up in the flank of the opponent and fire the first shots and then roll up the enemy team.

[@zgwynbleiddz]

8:06 Why that NV mode was changed? It was beautiful!

[@CeesaX]

It was better than normal vision in every way and let you easily spot mechs across an entire map, so it was perfect for snipers. It was just too powerful, so they removed it.

[@danielskrivan6921]

The RVN-3L was superior to the Jenner. It had ECM, and back when SSRMs were a heart-punching CT-seeking missile, the SSRM2s were about the best weapon in the game. Another thing you're missing on the Jenner is that they resized the Jenner (and the Raven) which helped with the hitboxes. However, I don't believe that hit registry is entirely fixed.

[@BlackhawkSC]

I discounted how mechs were in the early days of MWO because there wasn't very much competition between chassis at the very beginning. Since 2014 or so the RVN-3L and JR7-F had played very different roles so they were no longer directly comparable.

[@fmc6338]

thanks

[@hgbugalou]

Does the Firemoth count because the game engine is too obsolete to render 250+ kph light mechs?

[@BlackhawkSC]

Haven't heard anything about the Firemoth

[@nerdly44]

Dire Wolf is just the Diashi renamed, correct?

[@BlackhawkSC]

Daishi is the inner sphere name for the mech. The clan name is the Dire Wolf, and since it's a clan mech, it's more popular among hardcore BT people. The old MW games used the IS names for some reason so a lot of people got used to them.

[@nerdly44]

@@BlackhawkSC Ah, ok. Thanks for the explanation. I know that there are a few 'Mechs that have different names between IS and Clan (Mad Dog/Vulture...etc), and I always wondered why. Looks like I need a refresher on my MW Lore.

[@HEROF0RHIRE]

The moral of the story kids is, never spend $ on a free to play game, and don't play free games unless you think LOTS of grinding is fun! Good video.

[@hf117j]

Moral of the story is: Don't pay money expecting something blatantly OP from a company that like games that are genuinely balanced. Another way to think of it is: Git Gud.

[@ZorlonDemincaus]

Funny thing is I don't own any of these 5. I do have a cata which even with civil war tech I can't find a good build for. I also have a stalker which I pretty much just copied a build for one of my TimberWolfs. Works fine but a bit slow for the build compared to the TW. I've seen plenty of dragon slayers that still earn top marks in a match, but I guess in the end there is no way to replace a pilot's skill.

[@CovFlag]

Hi! could you define the word "pop tarting" for me please? You mentioned it a lot in the Cataphract segment. Thanks :)

[@BlackhawkSC]

+Flagron it's when you jump jet over a hill or ridge, shoot, then fall back down. Minimal exposure.

[@jamesricker3997]

the Catraphrac will probably make a comeback due to new ultra autocannons and the heavy ppc

[@TheOmigir]

No mention of the changes to Gauss, another nail for pop tarting.

[@BlackhawkSC]

Gauss charge? That was mentioned.

[@R4V3-0N]

can confirm with BHSC, itt was mentioned.

[@fallingace9887]

1. You forgot to mention the global resize which was the final nail in the coffin for the Jenner. 2. You keep mentioning the great quirkening of the I.S. mechs in Dec 2015. By Feb 2016, PGI began swing The Nerf Bat at I.S. mechs that rolled back most of the quirks throughout 2016. 3. According to the Epic Assault event thread in August 2016 on the forums the Direwolf is still the 2nd best performing assault. Problem is the Kodiak obsoleted every other assault in the game, not just the Direwolf.

[@BlackhawkSC]

A few of those points others have mentioned already. 1. The global resize affected every light mech, including the Jenner IIC. It was really other factors that caused the JR7-F to go down. 2. IS assaults were still stronger up to May 2016, then it's the Kodiak. February 2016 IS assaults were still better overall 3. I'm not sure how good of a measuring stick that event is. Just by looking at the top 5 scores though the Battlemaster also performed better than the DWF. Regardless, the criteria for "obsolete" is that in any situation another mech is better. That's true in the case of the DWF. At extreme range, the BLR is better. At long and mid range the KDK is better. At short range, many other mechs are better.

[@pendraco2000]

yeah, in fairness, the Resize was NEEDED. mean, the Firestarter, Wolfhound and Panther were HALF THE SIZE OF A CICADA. A mech that was only 5 tons heavier, and barely larger than one that was TEN tons lighter, the Commando. the Resize actually meant Firestarter and Arctic Cheetah had to learn how to dodge or tank fire, rather than being shoty-mcshort to avoid damage.

[@komsijaredbull8872]

I realy liked this channel for in depth explanation of mechs weapons and how to play with specific build!Too bad he givedup from this game!

[@BlackhawkSC]

+Komsija RedBull not quite quit, just busy with other things in real life. Thanks for your comment

[@LavaDa1shi]

incase anyone new to the game watches this video it is outdated almost all if not all of these mechs are good now.

[@acnine-ball8976]

I can only imagine where my beloved VTR-9B Victor would place. My original favorite from tabletop was always trash in MWO, even when you could ambush or jump your way into a brawl. Still, you'd better be a good shot with good timing and protect your auto-cannon, almost literally with your life. If it gets taken off, you're an 80-ton knee-capped Jenner, and that's with modifications. That said, I still loved being able to play as my favorite 'mech from Battletech, where it was also arguably obsolete from the second it was created. I've often wondered what sort of OP stuff game designers would create if they were any good at the games they designed.

[@BlackhawkSC]

I run 2xLL 2xUAC5 currently on the 9B. Very meh, but at least it's not just a worse version of the 9S.

[@zapa47]

7 year old video talking about "back in those days" really illustrates how old MWO is.

[@mattrg320]

the dragon slayer is a shame... HOWEVER, putting two mrm30s and a gauss on it can be pretty fun.

[@Arlithian]

I'm surprised that theres no mention of the Raven 3L before and after the hitbox nerf to it.

[@BlackhawkSC]

RVN-3L was never a top tier mech though.

[@Arlithian]

Back when ECM was first released, the Raven 3L was king of light mechs, killed almost all lights and mediums and couldn't be legged. They had a patch specific to the raven to make their hitboxes on their legs and sides less stupid and easier to kill.

[@BlackhawkSC]

I did hear back in the days it was good, though no one who played during 2012 ever told me it was "best of class". So maybe if we expanded the list it could make it.

[@rogersmith3044]

I hate how they balance out crap I paid for. I switched to MAV. No longer have to worry about paying for every mech and it's a much better game. YOu should do a video on it!

[@nuclearmonster6601]

I think the grasshopper is the most obsolete, I have never seen one in a match before

[@oriontheraptor8119]

Will this game come to console ? Like PS4 ?

[@BlackhawkSC]

Unlikely

[@graycarlyle8627]

These "meta game" shennenigans are the reason for quitting this train wreck.

[@Hotrob_J]

Holy shit, is that what heat vision used to look like? Why'd they change it?

[@MajCyric]

That's the oldschool technicolor version of what heat vision used to be... back in beta... It had like no range...

[@Hotrob_J]

MajCyric I like the technicolour. Would make using heat vision less boring visually.

[@MajCyric]

That and less painful on the eyes on many maps... Heat vision in MWO isn't accurate though... Hot things should be white, while cold things black... When I was in the army at my Infantry AIT school (11M) I got to train with a Bradley that had the new night vision periscope which was a flat screen that combined thermal and night vision .. The instructor called a Starlight scope... It was being field tested at the time and was very new.. Which also helped to a degree with the depth perception.. The other Bradley's had the old circle green/black night vision scope... But you would think that in the future these mechs would be equipped with something similar..

[@HibikiKano]

Why did they make heatvision so much worse that now its basically a black and white filter ?

[@BlackhawkSC]

I'm not sure about the color scheme but heatvision before had much greater range than it does today, which made it too powerful. They could have kept the color scheme but reduce the range.

[@KoeSeer]

because heatvision was pretty much broken. Night/day, cold/hot map, just press H and there you go.

[@pendraco2000]

believe it or not, actual HV on gunscopes and so on isn't predator vision. it's actually a lot like what it's been changed to now.

[@kristokirov]

Let them mount masc and/or ECM?

[@kearneytaaffe7059]

I miss the old night vision. MWO needs to go back to 2013. No structure quirks, no laser quirks. Just plain old mech. If PGI wants to eliminate pop-tarting, change the maps.

[@hans-christianbauer5947]

Balancing? I thought that all Mechs were built after a tonnage specific template...like in the original board game. I never played MWO, so I don't know how things work there, but I thought about getting into it.

[@BlackhawkSC]

I'm not very familiar with the BT board game but there they had battle values for all chassis, so different mechs of the same weight had different values. While MWO isn't exactly the same, two mechs of the same weight can perform very differently due to things like weapon locations and types of weapons it can carry.

[@BlackhawkSC]

Also if you're thinking about MWO I recently did a new player's guide on what mech to buy first. But go through the academy and play your first 25 games in trial mechs before buying anything.

[@hans-christianbauer5947]

Thank you, I'l check it out.

[@AndyShell]

I'm glad none of the mechs i bought were on this list lol

[@BladeLigerV]

Now the fundamental problem with all of this, is that true mechwarrior games don't have obsolete mechs because the game is traditionally PvE and weaker mech is the entire point of. Mechs are fazed out because new mechs get developed. Balancing shoulden't have to be a thing.

[@vomErsten]

Got your dates a bit mixed. Quirks came in late 2014, really took off in early 2015, but got majorly nerfed in early 2016.

[@BlackhawkSC]

Which ones are you talking about?

[@vomErsten]

Well, when you were talking about the Dire Wolf and referencing the IS getting quirks that helped them perform better, you said "2016." Those quirks came out in 2015; the major structure, range, heat, and rate of fire improvements were all 2015. Initial structure improvements were late 2014. In 2016, we got the reduction of energy range, heat, and duration quirks across the board. We also saw a dramatic reduction in structure quirks, too, and even agility didn't come out unscathed. And then there was the 'Mech rescale, which saw some more nerfs to go with it (i.e. Locust, Catapult). It's essentially been a one-sided nerf-slide since 2016 began, which is why there are almost no IS 'Mechs used in competitive leagues like MRBC at this point except under special conditions. You can track the dates for quirks on Snafets.

[@BlackhawkSC]

The durability quirks first came out in 2015 but were massively upgraded in 2016 because the initial values didn't do much. You can take a look at the Black Knight, Atlas and BLR-2C for example. It was in later 2016 that they started reducing quirks. In 2015 you still had Dires in competitive, but they were much rarer in 2016 even before the KDK.

[@vomErsten]

Nope. Most durability buffs were received earlier in 2015 and stayed where they were. In the 1 Dec 2015 patch, they gave some select chassis an extra buff, including the Atlas and the Blackjack. The BLR-2C has had the durability quirks it does now since it launched. In 2016, they began scaling back the quirks after the fiasco where Div A players did a demo test of Clans vs. IS and the IS cut the Clans to ribbons. That trend began with the 16 Feb 2016 patch, which cut the Blackjack and every other IS energy boat off at the knees and has continued to this day. You can see the dates and the changes here: snafets.de/mwo/index.htm Correction: BLR-2C got a modest buff to durability in December.

[@BlackhawkSC]

Sorry if you misunderstood to mean just structure. What I mean is a combination of weapon and structure quirks but I simplified the situation in the video. The BLR-2C improved on weapon quirks between 2015 and 2016, the Atlas and BLK on both. The MAL-MX90 improved on weapon only. Those are just some examples I can recall. I verified on Snafets.

[@LupusAries]

Assaults aren't XL-friendly at all, because their main role is to lead an assault and take fire away from the more weakly armored mechs. I mainly play Faction Play. An XL in an IS Assault is a huge liabilty, as it decreases your tanking abilities, since one side torso and you're gone. And I disagree with your definition of obsolete, something obsolete isn't useful at all anymore. I think those mechs are just not the best at what they are anymore, so saying they are obsolete is a bit wrong. It's like saying the Spit Mk. V was obsolete when the FW-190 came out, when it was "just" outclassed, it was still a good figther that could still go toe to toe with the 109, and could fight the 190, if the pilot was smart. It just wasn't top dog anymore. However the Gloster Gladiator Bi-plane was obsolete by the time WW2 started in 1939, as it just couldn't take on any of the modern fighters, well except italian ones, which were either obsolete Bi-planes themselves, or really bad monoplanes.

[@R4V3-0N]

In my honest opinion as a long time BT fan and someone who has played MW: O since open beta. I have to say I do not feel thaat any of my 'Mechs are obsolete and have not sold any 'mechs before. I got the whole load of them ranging from things considered "OP" at times to things considered always under powered and still are to this day. But I never conform to the 'meta' or 'cheese' of MW:O and have lovingly and effectively played till this day- though keep in mind I play solo cue often and not group cue (not because I fear "competitive play', but the fact that I only like playing with friends of which I lack having enough in 1 time zone to fill a 12 man pre made to counter the enemy 12 man premade). I know you stated before that it being 'obsolete' doesn't mean it is bad now:- but that it is worse. However in most cases it is just a single (meta cheese build of the time-) build that gets out of fashion yet all the other viable builds for said mech is still as good as ever- if not better after the quirkening such as the Stalker 3H you mentioned which became one of the best LRM assault mechs in the game though without killing it's competition though it is true that these 'Mechs though I would point to the meta of the month and new mech of the pack more then merely it's combat viability, for instance the first 3 months the Urbanmech was released it was the most popular mech in MW: O, and the most common builds of it went bellow 50kmh, which we both do know that doesn't make it the most OP mech of the patch.

[@falconium9801]

Of course, now Timberwolves are just as obsolete as the Dragon Slayer.

[@BlackhawkSC]

+Falconium yea TBRs are alright at the moment. Playable but lost a lot of mobility

[@glytch5]

Dude the 3d was so dope. That xl engine uac5s build was so much fun! I hope the gamer community as a whole gets rid of two sayings "lets goooo" and "dakka" They both cringe me to death!

[@irondudeful]

AS7-S vs. Spirit Bear? I'd put The Boar's Head and The DDC above it, and Spirit Bear? Spirit Bear can't compare to the MAD IIC Scorch in a brawl, the extra LB makes a huge difference. I'd put Scorch at top of the brawling list, followed by KDK-3, KDK-SB, AS7-DDC and AS7-BH.

[@BlackhawkSC]

The thing with the Scorch is it can't shield at all. Survivability is just as important as firepower in a brawl.

[@hiltibrant1976]

Maybe group the Highlanders with the Dragon Slayer, cause they suffered much the same fate?

[@BlackhawkSC]

There's a few comments earlier about the HGN. You can see those responses.

[@wkLeoTrooper]

I realize the Dragon wasn't really top tier, but how about the 1N AC5 speed nerf?

[@BlackhawkSC]

+wkLeoTrooper yeah even with the AC5 CD quirk, I don't think the 1N was top tier. Same with the grid iron.