Blade Runner, Altered Carbon, and the Relevancy of Cyberpunk

[@JustWrite]

Some clarifications: -- Murders in the Rue Morgue was published in 1841, not 1814. My apologies! Also, I feel like this is a good time to explain how I'm handling sponsorships on this channel, since this video has some critiques about advertising, but then it ends with an ad for a sponsor, Skillshare. So what gives? Well, here are the rules I follow when putting ads on my videos: 1) It has to be something I like and which I think is useful for my audience. 2) The sponsor doesn't have control over the content of the video. 3) For the past few months, I've turned Adsense off for videos with sponsors attached (for at least the first 30 days after publishing). This means that, instead of seeing an unrelated ad before the video, you get something I've chosen at the end. I think this is a good trade-off. It also means my salary isn't as connected to how many people are watching the videos, which lets me take more risks in the kinds of content I'm making. My other source of revenue is crowdfunding on Patreon. If you'd like to help me out, consider pledging here: www.patreon.com/justwrite I'll be happy to answer any questions anyone has about all this on here, or on Twitter :) Thanks for watching (and reading) everyone!

[@sgiath]

I think it's a great solution and I wish more KZbinrs adopted this approach.

[@solomonofbifrost6855]

@@sgiath Agreed. And thanks to the Skillshare plug a couple months back, I can now read basic scales on sheet music =).

[@zoisback28]

+Just Write Bro what's up with the whole communist and social justice agenda spread throughout the whole video?

[@Dorian_sapiens]

Just Write, please keep triggering and alienating right-wing chuds. They don't deserve your content.

[@zoisback28]

@@Dorian_sapiens theres nothing wrong with the content, I'm just wondering why its extremely political. Like why does it have to be political?

[@girzim644]

Cyberpunk is literally my favorite genre of anything ever

[@archiehickox6518]

If you guys like cyberpunk you should check out www.fooryu.com we have a lot of sci-fi noir, cyberpunk style art. We are based in North America and HK!

[@archiehickox6518]

Agreed

[@Khorne_of_the_Hill]

Same

[@pHiLKizer]

Agreed.

[@aimmy79]

same

[@misterx008]

Cyber Punk: High tech, low life. I've never known a time where this wasn't a relevant genre.

[@AlistairAi]

Moody lighting, anti-Establishment movements, scattered denizens, people in masks, a shit ton of crazy weather, dark and depressing cities. Yeah, we need people to wear more Tech wear and flying cars and it would literally be Cyberpunk to fuck and I'm okay with that

[@momsspaghetti9970]

We're headed there

[@Max.J.H.]

@@momsspaghetti9970 Nope.

[@Max.J.H.]

@@2alta It won't.

[@hamad4576]

We are pretty much living in a cyberpunk world but without the aesthetic of one

[@Stanjik]

How can nostalgia be a concern when the themes of cyberpunk are more relevant today than ever before? Artificial Intelligence, Internet dependence, power brokers, hyper consumerism, income inequality and our beloved smartphone accomplice... we have become Cyberpunk. It is prophetic in nature.

[@FancyTophatDude]

Yeah but that's also why it has kinda lost its edge. Cyberpunk originally was a shock to the system, something to be scared of. Cyberpunk like all sci-fi should look ahead showing actual potential futures rather than showing the vision of 2020 made in the 80s.

[@FancyTophatDude]

Many of its themes are still completely valid, but they should evolve with the developments we made, the things that happenedin the last couple years. Which is why i fully agree that Mr Robot feels so much more up to date.

[@brandonpersaud5634]

This is Mr. Robot is the best displaying modern cyberpunk and not rehashing 80s Cyberpunk

[@squamish4244]

I agree, and I don't think Altered Carbon felt dated at all, but even more relevant. It had like six big themes packed into one show. And it mixed things up. One of the episodes was a space opera. And the whole thing was threaded through with a centuries-old love story & family dynamic. It wasn't predicting 2020 so much as taking where we've already come even further.

[@phantasmaroseplancton6576]

@@FancyTophatDude The evolution of the genre you're talking about already exists. It's an extremely "plastic" genre named postcyberpunk. Which Mr Robot is an excellent example of. I sincerely think that this feeling about cyberpunk is more of an impression produced by the way cyberpunk evolved in literature far more than it did in visual arts like cinema rather than a justified feeling. That said I don't see why stories and genres should adapt themselves to look more like our world nor do I see why they should perfectly fit when they depict "speculative" fictional societies. Even when their goals are to be relevant about our world they can achieve such goals without being exhaustive nor realistic trying to achieve other goals. In the case of the old cyberpunk from the 80s some of its themes are already both relevant and an occasion to dwell easily in such themes without having to bother about other unnecessary themes. I mean, we're still talking about fictional stories with esthethic goals to achieve. Evoking narratively is not an unlimited process. And Cyberpunk since it's beginning was already a genre which had more to offer than social science fiction.

[@jacobshroyer2420]

Let me just say, THERE ISN'T ENOUGH CYBER PUNK!!!!

[@thanhvinhnguyen8731]

Jacob Shroyer alita is coming to the theater!

[@bitchimmadonna6487]

@@thanhvinhnguyen8731 I would've liked it if it weren't for the damn CGI. it wasn't that bad tho

[@sebaszt1312]

I think it needs more worldbuilding rather building a useless relationship with a boy that's still going to die in the end. The universe that it has created could be amazing, but this movie surely wasn't. Edit : I mean Alita battle Angel of course.

[@caligoclarus]

@@sebaszt1312 It recreated scene for scene the OVA with a little of the manga added in.

[@jenniferray8569]

read the manga its amazing.

[@afernandezaf55af]

I know why we can't grow past the traditional idea and aesthetic of cyberpunk. Because it just looks cool!

[@sathrielsatanson666]

Yeah, I know. "Why does cyberpunk movie looks like cyberpunk movie?" What a complicated problem :P

[@ricardolujan4791]

we cannot move on over cyberpunk aesthetic because it hasnt happened in our world yet... It is the future that is arriving...it is like saying why i dont know how to feel about being a parent and i have never kissed a girl yet... everything has it's time and space to be.

[@cosmicdream17]

Also because the aesthetic of Cyperpunk is so deeply ingrained in everything related to the genre, that when someone attempts something different, they are heavily criticised. For example, the gameplay of Cyperpunk 2077 that features a Night City without any terrible, rainy weather, and being a bright city instead.

[@agfagaevart]

@@ricardolujan4791 it is happening...RIGHT NOW!

[@TallicaMan1986]

Alex Fernandez Check out some Syd Mead artwork. It is a very plausible future.

[@nakenmil]

Ghost in the Shell is an interesting example, because while it certainly has a lot of cyberpunk in it, the animated series at least (moreso than the animated movies, and I won't comment on the original manga) has an airier, less dystopic outlook. I've heard this sub-genre been called post-cyberpunk , or even cyberprep. The subgenre essentially takes the same premise of a future filled with technology that blurs the lines of individual, technology, and corporation and society - but essentially comes out with the conclusion that rather than this causing a dystopia on the verge of collapse, it's.... well, business as usual. People deal with it. Some things get better, other things get worse, and it's more of an evolving process of trying to figure this out, rather than sliding deep into despair.

[@SternLX]

Ghost in the Shell's society is a more likely outcome than Cyberpunk's in the real world. US style of Cyberpunk takes Humans natural Empathy trait out of the equation. Us humans are very, very empathetic by nature. Sure, you have the outliers throughout history that are not and use Empathy to win people over to grab power(examples, Lenin, Hitler, Saddam). Or the other extreme like the Military riding roughshod over Emperor Hirohito and doing what every other power hungry body has done. Play to peoples fears and empathy and leading the citizens into a state of perpetual War. The empathetic people always manage to win in the end, there's more of them.

[@azb2a]

If you haven't seen Love Death & Robots on Netflix, note that the episode "Good Hunting" is perfectly on point with what you're saying !

[@Krystalmyth]

Less dystopic to you maybe.

[@model84]

i recomend you watch Psycho-Pass (at least 1 season)

[@ArcticZombie]

@@model84 Psycho pass season 1 is amazing. I wouldn't recommend watching the other seasons though since they're quite a let down.

[@ashdoe6194]

The neo(n) noir aesthetic is one of the main aspects of cyberpunk that makes me love it so passionately. Naturally the possibilities of action are among the most thrilling out there, but that colorfully dark atmosphere man... nothing makes me happier (I know it shouldn't haha)

[@stardustandstripes]

Ash Doe lol sameee

[@adrianrivera8343]

Same

[@T37-y6m]

neon is very cool

[@atracaelum]

The wild thing about the reduction of cyberpunk to its aesthetics rather than its core concepts is that a lot of recent works sort of remove the "punk" entirely. The rebellion is hollow; no meaning only neon.

[@poppanaattori89]

How to quell revolutionary ideas presented in fiction: Take a story or genre that challenges the status quo -> Remove the elements that challenge the status quo -> Sell it as your own idea with a ridiculous budget so it overshadows anything with substance -> Hope the masses are too dumb or preoccupied to notice

[@andrewlaporte5477]

@@poppanaattori89 Isn't that how Lindsay Ellis describes "Rent" and other rebellion musicals? Also, it's no wonder that the more expensive cyberpunk gets (and it's pretty pricey!) the more diluted its themes get. But hey, I bet there's plenty of fabulous books out there!

[@poppanaattori89]

@@andrewlaporte5477 Might be, I've watched her videos and they're great, but haven't watched that one. I was basically just parroting a point that critics of "culture industry" (or proponents of critical theory) make. An enlightening example of this is Cuck Philosophy's "The Emoji Movie, Adorno and culture industry". I warmly recommend watching that one: kzbin.info/www/bejne/g17QkGp9aJasnpY

[@andrewlaporte5477]

@@poppanaattori89 Thank you for the suggestion!

[@celinak5062]

If only the neon aesthetics were the rebellion

[@randomguy6679]

Everybody is just gonna forget about Metropolis being a huge inspiration.....

[@the-quintessenz]

thought so too. The similarities are obvious: The buildings, the rift between ruling class and atomized masses, the creation of a humanlike machine... all that's missing is the advertizing, computers and the rain.

[@SoakerCity]

ITS NOT JEWISH ENOUGH

[@MrRourk]

And West World the original

[@PondererOfThings]

How about Jean-Luc Godard's Alphaville? Lots of similarities between Blade Runner and Alphaville.

[@randomguy6679]

@@MrRourkMetropolis came out before West World

[@LungsOutJem]

"...the ads that track our movement and report information on us. I'd like to see cyberpunk explore that aspect." That is literally a *major* plot point in Minority Report, and it's alluded to several times in Altered Carbon.

[@SternLX]

It's happening right now... Google being the biggest perpetrator of tracking with advertisements.

[@MageJohnClanner]

Yeah, he even showed the scene where Takeshi is surrounded by the holographic ads being projected at him (right before he gets an ad blocker installed), which definitely feels like a commentary on modern Internet advertising to me.

[@lilyhope432]

It's also addressed in a video game called The Red Strings Club!

[@FBIopenup2390]

I guess you could say that superficially, yes, altered carbon does allude to the phenomenon, and perhaps minority report goes a level deeper so to speak, however I think what he means by explore that aspect, is to deconstruct or critique the inherent power structures that pervasive advertising and mass surveillance espouse. Check out some black mirror episodes if you haven't already - I'm surprised this wasn't mentioned as a more contemporary example of cyberpunk - it has most of the elements of the genre.

[@elinobenjamin_val]

I think that Joi in Blade Runner 2049 somewhat tackles what you were alluding to about the advertising that tracks you. Essentially, she tells you exactly what you want to hear in a similar way that advertising is targeted based on our viewing and searching history, giving us products the program thinks we want.

[@esotericmissionary]

Now this is an intelligent observation of the tech of a shitty movie.

[@Johnny_Sobczak]

Really great point

[@TheNinetySecond]

I'm always stumped to see Blade Runner 2049 receive so much flak. You can dislike it if you want, and it certainly gets the amount of praise that would make a hater pretty bitter (I've been there about lots of stuff myself), but there are so many aspects of that movie that are just objectively great. I'd understand if we were talking about technically mediocre movies like the MCU, or some sloppy art house film that everyone loved for the story, but BR2049? You can only really hate on a few subjective things, and I don't think anything in that movie is radical enough to warrant this sort of hetz.

[@elinobenjamin_val]

Wow it's almost like it's not a shitty movie if you think about it more

[@St.dresden]

Curtis Lee Cancino *best movie ever made

[@Highlyskeptical]

I like Asimov's quote that technology is a speeding train moving into the future, and the sci fi writer is tied to the front trying to peer ahead to see what's coming.

[@foras592]

Sad that people always forget the amazing work that Japan have made for the cyberpunk genre. Ghost in the Shell and Akira are one of the most notable examples.

[@cossaizy6309]

Not to mention the corporate capitalism he is raving about is widely felt in japan to this day

[@jenniferray8569]

and many many mangas like blame! and alita battle angel as a example also is Neon Genesis Evangelion considered cyberpunk or just a dystopian future? What really makes cyberpunk different from dystopian futures? Is it the high tech?

[@cossaizy6309]

@@jenniferray8569 usually cyberpunk is more feel than setting, it has to feel cyberpunk... its basically film noir set in the future. One of the highlights should be high tech low life, corruption, a generally bleak and cynic outlook, hyper corporate capitalism.

[@daos3300]

@@jenniferray8569 neon genesis is not really dystopian, it's a post apocalyptic story with strong religious underpinnings. a cyberpunk dystopia generally combines several elements - an extremely striated hypercapitalist society ruled by mega corporations, with high levels of economic inequality, little or no government control, advanced technology and transhumanism.

[@Ledabot]

even Cowboy Bebop has a lot of cyberpunk feel.

[@frankjaeger563]

I have to disagree with the assessment that cyber punk uses outdated tropes. I would rather say that all the 1980 tropes came true: - 0.1 percent of the richest people own more wealth than the bottom 50 percent. -Mega corporation have seen their real world equivalent in Amazon, Google and Apple. And with one mega merger happening after the other (look at Disney for example) that trend will only continue.

[@JacobSprenger]

The only thing that's still missing is each corporation having its own military. I'm looking forward to what Disney's uniforms might look like.

[@alejandrorivas4585]

@@JacobSprenger lol disney already has a private police force that works in its orlando property. we're already there, been for years

[@JacobSprenger]

@@alejandrorivas4585 Have you been sent on covert missions over to Warner or Sony, yet? Or are you already training the storming of the White House, so that Walt Disney's uploaded conscience can overtake the presidency and rule as an AI?

[@PolyesterMoustache]

@@JacobSprenger Disney has contracted mercenaries from Blackwater in the past, so has Monsanto in fact. There area couple notable times when corporations held control over large military assets, like the time when Pepsi briefly had the 6th largest navy in the world after they traded a massive amount of soda for soviet warships. Also of note are agricultural companies like Chiquita, a company that has repeatedly hired mercenaries from groups recognized by the US State Department as terrorist organizations to harass their own workers into compliance. Chiquita was itself born out of the splitting up of United Fruit Company, a company that managed to infiltrate the highest levels of the US government in the 1950s, stuffing Eisenhower's administration with company shills, and managed to pull the US into a coup attempt in Guatemala on behalf of the corporation under the guise of anticommunist paranoia

[@Real_MisterSir]

@@JacobSprenger Right now their military is in the form of cyber criminals and a horde of lawyers to make sure they don't get labeled as "cyber criminals". That is the main difference, that crime in general has become a digital thing, whereas in the 80'ies prediction, physical crime was still on the forefront. Now they just bind you through sheer rights violation, and make sure the system can't help you because you can't afford more lawyers than them. No need for physical violence through privatized militaries when even the police force eventually will take the criminal's side anyways.

[@BlueHooloovoo]

Blade Runner 2049 did update the cyberpunk genre with things like we are becoming more and more dependant on technology to create meaning in our lives and form relationships. The main character's love interest is literally and hologram designed to form relationships. Not to mention, it's set at a time when Earth is facing complete environmental collapse.

[@linusdn2777]

I love cyberpunk...there's not enough of it around

[@shinankoku2]

My favorite table-top miniature war game is Infinity by Corvus Belli for this very reason. It’s very cyberpunk, and I get my fix by playing.

[@esotericmissionary]

Read a book, you uncultured schlep. And none of that soulless mainstream tripe.

[@foralv256]

I like Paul Shapera ^

[@Artoveli]

If you're looking for recs, the "Otherland" quartet by Tad Williams is fantastic.

[@greisquirrel]

@@shinankoku2 Some of the miniatures they produce are obviously inspired by cyberpunk, I haven't played the game much but I do love the mini's they produce

[@SayHelloHelli]

I thought altered carbon decided to focus its anxieties on apathy. The apathy of the detached rich. They never die, the death of others don’t seem important to them. The main character starts off as apathetic and he doesn’t see himself as an especially moral man but towards the end he learns he does have limits. He’s disgusted by the things he sees and he wants to make them stop. He knows how powerful the rich are and how pointless it is to struggle against them. His journey is learning that it’s always worth it to fight even if things won’t be changed in the end. And in the end when you find out what really happened with the rich immortal guy, you can see it in his face. He didn’t think he was capable of what he did, he thought he was better than that, he thought he had more control than that. It’s totally relevant today. Think about all of the way innocent people are destroyed in this world. Think about all of the ethnic cleansing and sex trafficking and family border separation. These are innocent people getting chewed up and spit out. Lives are being ruined as I type this and yet I sip my coffee and type on. We cut ourselves off from the suffering and misery just like those immortals in their clouds. Altered carbon wasn’t really about capitalism, it’s about money and how it allows you to detach and forget that there are ugly things in the world, ugly things that you actively feed and benefit from. It’s like that episode of bojack horseman with the chicken that Todd tries to save.

[@pseudonymousbeing987]

Ahyup

[@edentyler-moss1157]

> wasn’t really about capitalism, it’s about money and how it allows you to detach and forget that there are ugly things in the world In which case it is totally about capitalism. Capitalism is defined as an economic system where the goal is the accumulation of wealth, in other words the prioritization of profits over people, and this is evident in every aspect of our society. Everything you and me have is because of the blood and sweat of those less fortunate than us, minimum wage workers, factory workers in China, and slavery as well (The device you're reading this on now, was made with slave labor, including children). As you say, we benefit from these ugly things, and more than that, our society relies on and encourages it, because it makes the most profitable sense.

[@volvo340variomatic9]

@@edentyler-moss1157 Not everything I own (or paid for) was produced using slaves. Capitalism in itself is not to blame for everything, it depends on how we use capitalism and detachment is not helping in many cases. Consider this formula for corruption: power + knowledge + greed. Power and knowlege are not bad in itself, but when combined with greed, it can turn ugly fast. Likewise, capitalism combined with detachment, vanity and greed can result in suffering. But at the same time, capitalism combined with caring, hope and generosity can reduce suffering and bring happiness. In either cases, capitalism is just a part of it, not the whole.

[@LDBaha]

Except they ruined the show with the whole sister thing. I thought that was terrible writing

[@CyberiusT]

@@LDBaha I've never been able to understand these guys: love a book so much they buy the film rights, then film shit that was never in the book and/or don't film stuff that was. Ok, so some things (inner monologue, for example) won't work on-screen, but there are other ways to impart that information. And of course, since they now 'own' the rights, nobody else can take a shot at doing it better.

[@thomasfrazer8934]

The unskippable google ad in the middle of the video right after the section on advertising was just... *chef's kiss* perfection.

[@YaboitheCadian]

Cuber punk vanished between the 90s and now because we transitioned into the 80s Cyberpunk. Our computers got smaller, and our industry got "cleaner" but its no coincidence that Cyberpunk is returning because many of the concerns we had back then are now pressing us now. interconnectivity, idenity loss due to lack of social grouping. We did the most Cyberpunk thing in real life and simply upgraded our future for one that LOOKED prettier.

[@poweroffriendship2.0]

Nowadays, the Internet is a cyberpunk because of Alexa.

[@grubbybum3614]

Sorry, no. The fear of Regan-esque government was 'retconed' into cyberpunk by academic theorists during the 90's - theorists who forgot the threat of nuclear power (the real inspiration for cyberpunk).

[@grubbybum3614]

"Just Write" also forgot that in Minority Report, the protagonist was being followed(tracked) by advertisments which identify individuals... It's the entire reason why he had his eyes pulled out.

[@grubbybum3614]

Also, could he do a video in how Predators is a good movie 😎

[@AtodaK]

A thing I've always found interesting about cyberpunk is how the characters seem so tied to the systems that oppress them. The characters often display a superficial rebelliousness but their actions rarely do anything to challenge or undermine the system; on the off chance they do they find their actions co-opted and used to reinforce a slightly different flavour of the same old story. It's an old trend that I think people are starting to recognise more in recent years than they did when I was a kid.

[@Sylentmana]

We live in the early stages of a cyberpunk world.

[@bigbalticbox]

Elon's already got a company set up that's working on cybernetic chips that hook up to your brain to help you where your brain fails or something, so we're getting there. Not to mention exo-skeletal suits, smart bullets, prosthetics, AI etc. etc.

[@louyht7]

Yesssssss all need left is flying car, hologram, teleport and spaceship.

[@louyht7]

@@bigbalticbox Yessssss woohoo.

[@zeek_backup]

@@bigbalticbox i thought Elon was against human-ai integration and tech integration into humans

[@JasonWeaver-qx5nx]

Have you been to Tokyo or Hong Kong? It's already there in some aspects. Also the giant slum city that used to be in China. Until the govt took it out.

[@mister8r00k5]

With this pandemic, we're living in a cyberpunk origin story.

[@silentwarez4967]

drones, mass surveillance, police state, raising crime rates, misery and violence.

[@flowerhobi1673]

Surreal to see this comment say '1 year ago' time hasn't felt real

[@OakCliffK9]

We're all interfacing with a global computer network via subliminally induced dopamine drip. The megacity I live in is larger in land area than the state of Connecticut. We all carry handheld computers that track us with our consent. Cameras are everywhere. Authoritarianism is on the rise. There are cyber cults organized on web forums. "The future is now."

[@ravagerr]

@@flowerhobi1673 2 years ago now das crazy

[@morbidgirl6808]

It's getting more cyberpunk

[@jasonjason9270]

Is it possible that the allure of Cyberpunk in its more traditional incarnations has shifted from social commentary to nostalgia-fuelled escapism?

[@charlieni645]

If escapism functions in a vacuum which it rarely does. Wherever there is escapism, it means there is something in the present to escape from and find a desirable alternative in artistic media, which led to discussions of what elements in said media that accomplishes being escapist. Is it a power fantasy? An empowering underdog story? Or an idealistic setting where people don't have our daily concerns and stress? And so on. Those are sources of social commentary.

[@nickycocaine]

Such an underrated comment.

[@mickmickymick6927]

Nostalgia is definitely a big part of it. Blade Runner was such an iconic 80s movie and dealt with issues from the 80s, it doesn't make sense to be released today. It's a retro-futurist 80s reboot.

[@daos3300]

@@mickmickymick6927 arguably it's more relevant than ever. growing economic inequality fueled by hypercapitalism, invasive advertising, rapidly advancing technology.. a lot of the elements are just starting to fall into place.

[@mickmickymick6927]

Even the way it dealt with those issues wasnt in a contemporary way, ie it didnt deal with them in a way showing how now might lead to that. I ttake your point but the depiction of the city I dont like is likely to happen anytime soon and is an 80s retro-futurist vision.

[@travisspazz1624]

2049 is one of the best sequels ever made, just saying.

[@salvadorriosdelmas7008]

And actually talking about moving away from the style of the original the new one offers a new aspect to the cyberpunk genre

[@Coff1nf33der]

No question!

[@orinanime]

If by best you meant mediocre.... then yes

[@ElamparithiK]

The movie is great I am not even complaing but, I dozed off during some sequence. Maybe the environment was pleasing I guess. ;)

[@WritingGeekNL]

It is, I hope to see a third movie sometime in the future. They left hints for a third plot, in which androids revolt against humans. If it would be as good as the first two movies, it will most definitely be my favourite trilogy of movies.

[@johnspillan7785]

Ending w advertising. The irony

[@wlot28]

really hammers the point home doesn't it

[@johnspillan7785]

wllot absolutely

[@thegreenmage6956]

He’s a obviously a hypocrite libtard, you can tell by the signs in the video.

[@danilthorstensson8902]

@@thegreenmage6956 “if you’re a critic of capitalism, you have to starve and die in a corner or you are a hypocrite”

[@sx3todd]

reality hits and he gotta pay bills 😂

[@luca.quinn1]

This video made me think about Mirror’s Edge (and Catalyst as well, I’m more familiar with it). It has loads of the hallmarks of early cyberpunk, but instead of this dark world with blues and blacks with advertisements in bright colours wrapping the buildings that blend into one another, everything is white. Its always daytime, the weather is always good, every building is white or a bring orange or yellow. And yet, it trains you to see this as just as dark and oppressive as the darker cities, and it feels just as alienating and unnerving and oppressive. Love those games.

[@bobbywasabi8014]

Ó Cúin catalyst was awful

[@luca.quinn1]

Jonny Guinness I loved it...

[@straightbusta6912]

It's not always set in daytime but you're right about the rest.

[@CosmicOwlChild]

There just a dream ME I mean. These references he's referring too is more realistic to the actual cyberpunk

[@notzan5302]

I agree with the other guy that catalyst was pretty bad, it made the setting way more generic, but the first game specifically did a pretty good job of subtly showing that once you get away from the high rises and public places The City was just as much of a dystopia as any other cyberpunk setting could be. And that the only reason The City was as nice looking as it was is because of a horrible corrupt regime violently taking control only a few years prior. Hell, thats the whole point of the title "The line between the gloss and reality, the mirror's edge."

[@Vagolyk]

"... we'd consider it a blessing, if the neon advertisments were the most obnoxious kind..." - so true "it's ... SKILLSHARE!" - make it stop! MAKE IT STOP!

[@groel]

HAHAHA i felt the same

[@arturofernandez4058]

If all the adds were like that, I'd consider it a blessing too

[@CiprianHanga]

but hey, at least it's not Udemy....

[@Vagolyk]

@@CiprianHanga "Hans, are we living in a dystopia?"

[@vampbat]

For some reason, I wasn't expecting to see Mr Robot in an awesome video essay about cyperpunk. Thank you for opening my eyes and giving me a new look into this genre! To quote the show, "We are finally awake!"

[@RandallStephens397]

> commentary about the pervasiveness of ads in cyberpunk > allusion to the cyberpunk dystopia being right around the corner > ad

[@danieldosso2455]

Dude's gotta make his money somewhere right?

[@wvubebop]

@@danieldosso2455 guy complaining about capitalism is exploiting the capitalist machine known as youtube. I hate hypocrites.

[@johnsinclair4621]

@@wvubebop So because he has legitimate concerns about the sustainability of our capitalist mode of production he should not use any medium provided by capitalists ( in other words: none) to bring his legitimate concerns to the marked place of ideas? Maybe you should think again, because this rule of thumb would protect capitalism from any form of effective criticism, which would lead to a new form of totalitarianism. Or do you see it differently?

[@nalivai4862]

@@wvubebop Your hatered obstructes your view. The world isn't binary, there is a lot of grey area between strawman "capitalism always bad" and "capitalism always good". And more importantly, there is a lot of room between "capitalism bad, go anarchy, money is evil" and "I accept capital as my lord and savior". Your refusal to see it is hipocricy in and of itself

[@EvelineDaw]

hahahaha, but tbf, these ads at the end of a video aren't that bad, especially if it's about a website I can actually learn something from. Now personal-info tracking and selling for ads are a whole different beast. If ads just remained mildly annoying that would be fine...

[@tatelandis8379]

I love how you bring in Mr. Robot into this, it made me realize how i was so captured while watching the show, because it gives off similar feelings to blade runner

[@labaguette7512]

One thing i noticed moving from the original Blade Runner onto 2049 is that the street food sellers from the original have been replaced by vending machines - the dystopia becomes, just like our own world does, more individual and atomised.

[@simonyeh1619]

The Matrix did a good job of updating the cyberpunk aesthetic.

[@Ikaros23]

So did " Ghost in the shell" orginal anime. alot from The matrix is a " remix" of gits ( better word than inspiration ore rip off). Its another point is that in Cyberpunk the future looks " old".

[@ricardolujan4791]

yeah. he mentions mr. robot and hi great way to portray an updated and current form of cyberpunk..but The Matrix just did it a long time ago.

[@joeandrew8752]

The matrix kinda comes off as far future cyber punk. Mr robot is like pre cyber punk. Just in terms of the setting, visually speaking.

[@jaffacakes95]

The Matrix is more in the grey area of cyberpunk. It didn't upgrade it, it just has elements of cyberpunk mixed in with hard sci-fi which makes it a hybrid. It's not truly a cyberpunk film.

[@The_Jovian]

I don't see how the matrix is cyberpunk at all. It carries none of the aesthetics or the general themes of the genre.

[@ginamaynard2698]

Something my dad has always said to me is that we have the punk (the corporate oppression of the individual) but not the Cyber.

[@mikfhan]

Yeah, it's kinda like retro futurism in the later fifties focused on lasers and nuclear power (fallout); under the facade, the themes display the time the genre was born from. Some grand event would have to get the ball rolling, like world war 3 biological warfare causing severe limb degradation or need for amputation, then drug addiction and crime to pay the bills, with an eventual rebellion against big pharma, economic crisis and mass riots. Mr. Robot is pretty close to that, sans the whole cybernetics thing yeah :P

[@Real_MisterSir]

We also have the cyber, the cyber through technology, enhancing ourselves, how our entire livelihood and lifestyles are tech dependent for the entire world. The only thing we're lacking, is the 80'ies aesthetic. Otherwise we are pretty much there already.

[@Salamon2]

I think you might have gotten the digits on Poe's novel mixed up. Poe was born in 1809, now I know he was a brilliant mind, but writing the first detective story at the age of 5? That pushes credulity. Just trying to be helpful. :)

[@JustWrite]

Thanks for the correction. You're right, it was published in 1841, not 1814.

[@armaphobic]

"Takeshi, the protagonist of Altered Carbon, hits every Beat as well" that's the most subtle Beat Takeshi nod i've ever seen

[@servidig483]

Black Mirror i think is a case of scenarios that if added in the same bowl, create a very cyberpunk world.

[@bigbalticbox]

Black Mirror lacks the "punk", though. It's far more political than it is punk. It has elements of cyberpunk, but they're all strewn between episodes in bits and pieces

[@mariapazgonzalezlesme]

What about Ghost In The Shell and Cowboy Beboop? I'm aware that those two are animes, different franchise from the movie. Coming a japenese version of Cyberpunk and future vision. However, those two series shares similar themes with Blade Runner. Deals with deep psychological about humanity, identity, technology advances and political corruption.

[@DeMerdeEncule]

I think he got his point across just fine with just mentioning Blade Runner and Altered Carbon. Remember : he was not trying to make a list of Cyberpunk fictions. (this is not watchmojo) You can only spend so much time on a video, and put so much content in it.

[@mariapazgonzalezlesme]

@@DeMerdeEncule Noted! 👌 Thanks for the little explanation.

[@NoNameAtAll2]

beedpop xD animes xD Anime always has cool ideas popping up from time to timeIf you let it have some buffer to let community filter out real trash, you get amazing points of view on many problems

[@laurentdeserresberard9600]

I think also, he wanted to talk more about American cyberpunk, since he made a distinction with the Japanese cyberpunk style that emerge in a different context and address things differently with similar tools

[@Trevin_Taylor]

I don’t think Bebop is cyber punk. It’s just set in the future, the future is dystopian, and it’s Japanese. As mentioned in the video the “Asian city planning” as a marker for cyber punk aesthetic is popular in the genre, but also anything set in Asia in the future would also have the same look. It’s a Japanese show, and it’s future, so it looks like that, but that doesn’t mean that’s what it is. Bebop is about existential ennui, loneliness, other depressing themes. It doesn’t really talk about technology, how that affects humanity, blurred lines of what is humanity, etc. just because it has the aesthetic doesn’t mean it’s part of the genre. It’s a show of regret that just happens to be in the future and has Asian writers. It’s not really cyber punk. In fact, the show kind of goes out of its way to establish it’s a western. It’s pretty ham fisted at times. It has “cowboy” in the name, dude. The author has the western genre in mind, it just happens to be in the future. Ghost in the Shell, however, is definitively cyber punk.

[@conflictmagazine]

Just a side note here: Cyberpunk actually delivered a one-two punch in '82 when BR was released June 25 1982 and a month later Burning Chrome (where the first use of the word 'cyberspace' occurred) by William Gibson was released in OMNI magazine #46 July 1982. Those two events so close together sent me looking for more of this 'new' SF and the rest is history. And yes, there are examples of proto-cyberpunk in the works of PKD and others but don't forget John Brunner's work with The Sheep Look Up and Stand on Zanzibar along with what many consider to be the first cyberpunk novel, Shockwave Rider (Brunner coins the term 'worm' for a computer virus in the book).

[@Tholen3]

Thank you.

[@cognitiumone]

I view cyberpunk as a setting rather than a framework of themes. It's the dystopian future that arises from an ever present information network and cybernetic bodies blurring the meaning of humanity and existence.

[@kalvus5270]

I’m literally addicted to the cyberpunk 2020 and 2077 series

[@ErrorUnknownChannel]

Haven’t finished watching. Where’s the credit to “Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep” to Blade Runner

[@musicbcwalk]

He credits ronald reagan (who wasn't even president until blade runner started filming) more than he ever credits Philip K Dick

[@ziomaragarcia6689]

BC Walk INDEEEEED

[@biazacha]

Thanks, say Blade Runner was the kickstarter and not the book wich was based off..... honestly any basicv research would point that.

[@nichsa8984]

@@musicbcwalk future tech advanced and this city run by evil x-file

[@Brubigo]

I don't think ppl realize, in the novel the author predicted social media even before the internet came around, he called it empathy box, it is astounding even more so than the droid thing

[@markable8144]

Sci-fi is my absolute favorite genre and Cyberpunk is probably my favorite subgenre. You covered the topic extremely well , so thank you for this video. I am floored that you also showed parts of the upcoming game Cyberpunk 2077, which is a game I am very hyped about! I hope the story telling in this game will be worthy for you to make a dedicated video on it - as I, and many of my fellow Cyberpunk fans, would appreciate it since I believe it has already destroyed tropes that many people hold Cyberpunk hostage to, e.g. "only night with rain and no bright colors, etc.".

[@ShinoSarna]

Except these tropes have already been destroyed by dozens of older cyberpunk games, CP77 is only building on them. Don't get me wrong, I believei t will be a great game, but let's not forget it's not the first cyberpunk game ever made.

[@Morrigan070671]

William Gibson crested cyberpunk with “Neuromancer”. The movement had begun at the time, but he was at the helm.

[@lo-rez]

I mention/ecommend this book to someone whenever the subject comes up. He's the GOAT

[@redriverscout4404]

I think cyberpunk is more relevant now then ever before and in some ways we are living the origin story. That being said I think the genre is where other genres of fiction were a few decades ago. Take fantasy for example. It too got to a point where authors had to figure out how to take it in new directions instead of rehashing The Lord of the Rings endlessly.

[@bigbalticbox]

I've recently finished the first Altered Carbon book 2 years after seeing the show, and let me tell you: Go read the books. They go into *faaaaar* more detail about Takeshi, his motives, his thoughts, emotions, drive etc., that the guy in the Netflix show just can't portray because he's more emotionless than a rock in the middle of a puddle. There's descriptions of DNA-encoded weaponry that only activates to a customised scanner built for the owner, there's frequent mentions of cybernetic enhancements, there's mentions of adverts that invade the cyberware in people's minds causing hallucinations of these adverts. It's just 10x better than the show, and I still love the show. Go read the books. You won't regret it

[@kumoryuuichi]

Agreed, and it's also worth mentioning that the book series began in 2002. Back then the characteristics of the consumerist zeitgeist were very different from now. There wasn't the problem of data privacy and fake news, because these didn't exist then. They did a good job of portraying *that* generation's concerns about the technological future. In this generation, one of the biggest contributors to the cyberpunk genre (not general science-fiction), Cyberpunk 2077, does include modern problems. Sexual devaluation, targeted advertising, urban mafias...not to mention the design is much more futuristic and complex than anything from Blade Runner's time. A few years ago there was I, Robot which updated Asimov's 1950 novel to a modern context. Actually, even the novel was inspired by a short story from 1939, and all three share the same name! There's also all of Neil Blomkamp's films which combine non-human intelligence with crime-ridden favelas in heavily gentrified cities. Johannesburg survived both a giant alien spaceship full of refugees and a ragtag team of criminals with an impressionable robot. It's been through a lot. So I think it's important to give value to not just the philosophies and themes that composit a 'cyberpunk' story, but also the visual design. It takes a lot of iterative work to bring a cohesive material language to the screen. That applies to games, too, though I think the aesthetics there are more noticeable as you can examine everything much closer. Digital, visual media is, and will be the 21st century's trademark way of experiencing fiction, so we might as well embrace it. Thousands of years ago there were scrolls, stone tablets, and roadside campfire tales. A few hundred ago, there were paintings, traditional theatre, and books, but those were only for rich people. During the industrial revolution came the printing press and afterwards, lots of books. Lots and lots of books for everyone who wants them. Then silent films, film-noir, television, contemporary theatre... Then modern cinemas, and television again. Then early video games, web novels, and books became cool again. Then present-time video games, Netflix, and virtual reality. I'm certainly seeing a trend here. There'll always be some of each, and no medium will go undervalued in the art community as long as we remain open-minded and tolerant to creative experimentation. But the wind is blowing, as it's always done, and taking us to a new land. So if anyone wants to get a headstart on pioneering the world of fiction, now's the time to learn how to take part in making video-games or virtual worlds.

[@matiassoto7797]

Yes. Agreed. The critic about the ad is no longer valid when applied to the book. When I watched the show, I was looking to see this. Unfortunately, they didn't, iirc

[@PiLLbOt100]

The printing press came hundreds of years before the industrial revolution.

[@greggi47]

Yes! Yes! yes!!!

[@Pantha242]

Sounds awesome! Always meant to check them out, since I loved the series and was disappointed it got cancelled.. The thing about super invasive ads reminds me of Neal Stephenson's Diamond Age, which I was surprised wasn't mentioned in the video.. He also wrote Snow Crash, which was another amazing book, right up there with Neuromancer, in my opinion.. 🤔

[@MattiaMonticelli]

I don't think that the usual tropes about cyberpunk makes the genre stale. First of all I'm not sure that is correct to see Cyberpunk as a possible future, more like an alternate reality, just like it is with steampunk. The steampunk genre is easier to see as an alternate reality because it talks about the past not the future, but at the time of Jules Verne it was the future for them and in that sense is very similar to cyberpunk. What I'm trying to say is that cyberpunk exist because is a product of the 80's and that not only is its origin but also its core, making it more modern would mean creating something new. That's why I don't think Mr Robot is cyberpunk, is the begging of a new genre that is a product of our society. True it takes many inspirations from cyberpunk but that was also true for the creation of the cyberpunk genre itself that took many ideas from the steampunk genre: body modification(prosthetic arms), flying vehicles(airships - flying cars), negative effects of capitalism (industries - mega corporations) etc.

[@lozoft9]

Honestly, what you said about Mr. Robot is EXACTLY why I found it hard to watch, so much so that I haven't finished the first season. It's just so haunting and traumatic that I have to look away before becoming jaded about our reality. Damn

[@Jestrath]

I've been trying to tell people we are already in the beginning of a full on cyberpunk dystopia in the US

[@Deniz-wx8bl]

I love cyberpunk I first discovered it from the film Ghost In The Shell and ever since I am in love with the aeathetics, concepts and kinda the reality of it. Future goes hand to hand with technology and we become more and more dependent on technology seeing these futuristic concepts of how technology takes over human body and mind has a certain tone that charms me. The neon cities , enhanced body parts , prosthetics , androids etc. It really shows how technology can become a ‘ danger’ to human kind.

[@BetoMissali]

"Of course, we're still terrified about the growing proeminence of advertising" ... "Skillshare has over 20,000 classes in writing..."

[@gasperettiarts]

As a kid in the 1970s I was an avid reader of the fantastic French comics magazine called Metal Hurlant. So much of the cyberpunk aesthetics could be found in those pages years before Blade Runner and Neuromancer, which - clearly - were inspired also by those aesthetics

[@TheJeremyKentBGross]

I wish i could get my hands on digital copies of the entire historical backlog of Metal Hurlant and Heavy Metal.

[@GarnetLynne]

This is the second cyberpunk doc I've seen. No one is mentioning Johnny Mnemonic.

[@JacobSprenger]

Nobody appreciates good room service anymore.

[@TabaquiJackal906]

Because the movie sucked balls. The short story is infinitely better, and is in part (character-wise) a precursor to Neuromancer. But the movie...was horrifying.

[@mlenz2553]

Most of the reasons you give as to why altered carbon is bad, are the same reasons why I enjoyed it.

[@SleepingGiant45]

@Chase Moore That's the real question with most media these days, isn't it?

[@Peglegkickboxer]

@Chase Moore not as much as other stuff

[@jamesbell1186]

@Chase Moore Lol imagine complaining that a Cyberpunk show is political

[@jamesbell1186]

@Chase Moore So you're upset that modern Cyberpunk shows address modern politic issues as opposed to recycling the same political issues that the 80s/90s media addressed? I personally quite like this evolution of the genre (Blade Runner: 2049 addressing modern day isolationism and identity confusion I felt to be a great expansion upon the 80s themes of worker dehumanization), but I would like to know of any examples you have of this being an issue.

[@greggi47]

It is less an adaptation of Richard K. Morgan's great books than a mere riff using the same names and some stolen imagery. Those are entirely different aesthetic and emotional experiences. Enjoy the series--but read the books.

[@jeffm7007]

The World Sucks, Go On Skillshare Aand learn To Forage In The Post-Apocalyptic Hellscape.

[@WhaleManMan]

If the Internet's main reaction to any political event wasn't *sigh* or "terrifying" and instead focused on wanting to do literally anything then they would have a lot better reputation than they have now instead of as something stupid.

[@JoeD250]

Psyco-pass is good cyber-punk too and abit update

[@alfi-il7be]

Jochem G. Geerman it reference from "do android dream of electric sheep ",minority report and many source.

[@Adolf1Extra]

Only the first season, the movie and season 2 are garbage. They try to imitate S1 and butcher the whole thing while arriving the *exact same* conclusion as S1 did, i.e. they didn't really bring anything new to the table that was meaningful. The movie was a bit better in that regard but still a big mistake compared to S1

[@thekaeru9651]

probably in my opinion the best one out there

[@StrongZeroPowerHour]

Cyberpunk as genre fiction feels like it functions like old westerns: like a postwar America looking back on the simpler days of an open frontier, 80's-styled cyberpunk is treated as a retrospective fantasy; a simpler time when all it took to fight the power was rebelliousness, spunk, and an Ono-Sendai. Old cyberpunk came from a time when there was still some hope that this nightmare future could be resisted. Today, "it is easier to imagine an end to the world than an end to capitalism."

[@rosemali3022]

The more I read on socialism the easier I find that to accomplish.

[@Real_MisterSir]

Exactly this. The unwillingness to even resist is what makes the retrospectiveness work. It has evolved from being a futuristic outlook, to now instead become a theme of escapism because that future isn't real anymore. It calls back a time where resistence was even an option to begin with. Where ordinary people were willing to stand up and realize that what is going on, isn't okay. In today's world, people have just accepted that their rights and individuality is stripped away from them, and simply adjust to living with the evil, rather than rebelling against it. That's why a cyberpunk setting based in our current outlook doesn't work the same way, because people would have already given up. There is no "punk" left to the cyberpunk concept, if the theme was to be based more contemporarily.

[@niespeludo]

Wait... Imagine making an excellent video on the topic of cyberpunk and having ZERO mentions of Phillip K. Dick's science fiction... It's a nitpick, sure, but I'm surprised you didn't even mention it at all when it was so fundamental to both Blade Runner and most of the science fiction we've seen portrayed since the 80s.

[@-Subtle-]

Came here to say this.

[@MaurDL]

Came to say same. Also never names what "comics".

[@derzw3rg]

Blade runner is written by k. Dick. So he kinda mention him. :)

[@Ammoniumbicarbonat]

@@derzw3rg The book has a different title and differs broadly from the film.

[@deckardp.i.4088]

but hey, he found a way to shoehorn Trump in

[@JohnnyCiocca]

This must be one of the most amazing videos about cyberpunk I've seen - among the short ones, that is. Would love to see a longer, more detailed and warpped up version =)

[@Rightofhu]

Yessssss I love when people talk about mr.robot It’s legit one of the most cyberpunk shows and the best shows I’ve ever watched

[@ArtrichStudio]

How can you make a video about cyberpunk and not have at least two minutes dedicated to Ghost in the Shell? It is a vastly more developed world when you watch the Stand Alone Complex 2 season anime.

[@deckardp.i.4088]

but hey, he at least shoehorned Trump in

[@ArtrichStudio]

@@deckardp.i.4088 lol

[@MarlenNurmakov]

Yes! I always said that Mr. Robot is a true modern cyberpunk.

[@leilanovak2185]

Cannot thank you enough! I'm going to use and cite this video in a project, and many of your sources as well! The quality and care this video was made with is incredible. Even just for information's sake, it's entertaining and complete. Thank you again!

[@ShinoSarna]

The type of cyberpunk Mr Robot exemplifies actually *has* a name - cyberpunk set in a modern setting is a rapidly growing subgenre called "nowpunk", as seen in Bruce Sterling's book Zenith Angle, the Blue Ant book trilogy by William Gibson, videogame series Watch_Dogs, or the webcomic Fisheye Placebo. But to be fair, Mr Robot is definitely the first work in said genre to gain widespread recognition and acclaim.

[@CrissCHG]

Mmm cyberpunk was created in literature not in movies and the book that Blade runner is based on was created years before

[@ErebosGR]

Yeah, it's weird that there is no mention of Philip K. Dick anywhere in his video...

[@WritingGeekNL]

He was talking about the aesthetics of Cyberpunk, not just Cyberpunk itself. Btw, the book is very different from the movie. Aesthetic = the overall look and feel of an entertainment product that the viewer/player experiences.

[@cybertonto72]

Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep is so not a cyberpunk book. It is a hard boiled detective book at a small level

[@cognitiumone]

I view cyberpunk as a setting rather than a framework of themes. It's the dystopian future that arises from an ever present information network and cybernetic bodies blurring the meaning of humanity and existence.

[@squirlmy]

CrissCHG- you're right. It's a mislabeling of "Cyberpunk," the main motivation is probably creating clickbait. I'm going to think twice about clicking Just Write's videos. At least I can downvote it.

[@marcv2648]

If you're saying Reagan was responsible for Transformers toys, then he gave me and all my friends the most fun a kid could have had.

[@superior2u]

Art reflects society. The theme of Cyberpunk was relevant then because it seemed like a possible future, it's relevant now because that possibility is unfolding into reality.

[@digitalbookworm5678]

The dystopian world we fear is NOT right around the corner. 😕 It's here now! 😵

[@twixxtro]

my dream is to go to tokyo especially at night, the clouds getting lit up by the lights of the city, the architecture. its a feeling i can't describe.

[@keegzter]

im hoping they release a second season of altered carbon i really liked that show

[@Mortifier21]

Good news for you, it was renewed for season 2. If they do it like the books did, expect the same personality, but not the same skin.

[@daos3300]

Keegzter read the books, you won't be disappointed.

[@alexhein6054]

2020 season 2

[@siddarth_vader]

Takeshi is gonna be portrayed by Anthony Mackie, the Falcon from MCU

[@qlnbd]

@@daos3300 absolutely. The books are great. Really important modern sf writer. Read his other stuff too. Enjoyed the netflix series & happy to see more sf on screen but the books are MUCH better.

[@mopslikvonstein]

Great video, except you literally consciously avoided everything from Japan, thus limiting your scope.

[@ITSMRLADY]

okurrrr but the irony of the ending advertisement for skillshare purrr

[@McClane4Ever.]

I just wanted to comment that I adore the 80s retro future neon aesthetic.

[@teucer915]

Cyberpunk stories that predate Blade Runner: Vernor Vinge, "True Names." John Brunner, "The Schockwave Rider." Philip Dick, "Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep" (of which Blade Runner is an adaptation.)

[@coryandrum]

"Beyond Lies the Wub"

[@diamantemrobinson]

To some of us violent crime doesn't seem to be on the decline. A lot of it is just underreported. I think alot of cyberpunk is more relevant now then it was in the 80s. A lot of it had changed as well and updated stuff.

[@thegameneededme5]

It's interesting you bring up Mr. Robot in this discussion. I've only seen the first season (so I'm not well-informed, admittedly), but that show to me felt way more Fight Club than cyberpunk. I mean, even including *very* direct parallels to Fight Club. I do agree that BR2049 feels like an evolution of the genre. I think it's brilliant in its world-building. A problem comes when something tries too hard to copy the thing it's inspired by. So many sequels try to recapture the magic of the original and just go through the same motions. But I'm also fine with something like Cyberpunk 2077 just being a well-made realization (hopefully) of the genre as we know it. You can use the same set-dressing and still explore new themes within that setting.

[@wingracer1614]

Fight Club is just cyberpunk without the cyber. Basementpunk? Fistpunk? Soappunk?

[@thegameneededme5]

First rule of Soappunk is: you do not talk about Soappunk.

[@aayushdas19]

I'm so glad that Cyberpunk 2077, doesn't have rain all the time.

[@Rampala]

Ooh, please do a video about Japanese cyberpunk, Ghost in the Shell, and Battle Angel Alita!

[@spocksbrain9465]

Relevance is a relative and constantly changing thing, here today and gone tomorrow. I think art should be judged not so much by its relevance as its thematic depth. In ten years, the circumstances which caused an artist to make certain relevant statements in their art will likely have come and gone. What will the work mean to someone unfamiliar with the circumstances which inspired its topical content? If it is a truly excellent work, it will have themes/narrative developments which will resonate universally, regardless of the time in which it was made or is being watched. Blade Runner is a perfect example of universal thematic depth: the questions it raises apply to everyone. What does it mean to be human? What does it mean to be good? Is there a God? Do we have souls? These are powerful and challenging questions which don't age. It may have had some relevant commentary for the audience viewing it at the time, but that is not why it is a great film. That's not to say a film can't be relevant to a certain time and lack universal themes. I think that the universal is ultimately far more important than the relevant, however. Relevancy, as I said above, is relative and constantly changing. It seems to me that the bigger problem (as opposed to its lack of relevance to the modern world) with something like Altered Carbon, at least from what I know of it, its that it takes the cyberpunk setting and uses it on a very surface level, lacking anything beyond its "cool" factor. The underlying substance is nonexistent, and what we are left with is a hollow shell of a story which looks pretty but signifies nothing. The problem with some Cyberpunk stories, I'd argue, is not so much that they aren't relevant to the modern world as it is that they take an appealing aesthetic and rely solely on that to tell their stories. They have nothing in their text or subtext which makes them worthy of thought.

[@gatobuho-]

Very similar to what happened to the American adaptation of Ghost in the shell, it has the aesthetics but superficially touches the philosophical issue and sets it aside as if it were nothing.

[@Real_MisterSir]

While I completely agree, I would not say that Altered Carbon is a surface level work of fiction. It is grounded in the very same philosophies that you mention yourself, like the themes of what makes us human, what is essential to feeling a reason to exist. What does existence even mean when our body can essentially be stripped away and rebuilt or refurbished, what exactly is left of ourselves, our identity as an individual - when the individual can become anyone, and everyone. What does it also mean, when wealth is no longer measured in currency or power, but rather in one's ability to outlive others, to keep existing when others' existence fails. To have your own identity exceed the lifespan of those around you, when there is no "expire date" to your person, your image, your essence. What does it mean to live one's life to the fullest, when one's life is potentially endless, and you could do the bare minimum every day and still live "more" than those around you. What even becomes of you, when you are no longer limited to just a singular physical entity? Or no entity at all? These are very deep topics that are well explored, at least in the first season (second season is trash and shallow in comparison). Altered Carbon definitely hold its own in this genre.

[@JoshuaFagan]

With the combination of Bush's wars and the Recession, we're stuck in the same mindset we were in the 80s; i.e. the uncaring government is in the pocket of megacorps as income inequality continues to rise. There's a dread about the future, and it's not going away soon. Obviously, there are differences- as talked about in the video, crime was a bigger problem in the 80s, and climate change is a bigger problem now- but the mindset is about the same.

[@davinci451]

Great analysis. As a writer, struggling with the question of what's next for the genre, this was incredibly timely and informative!

[@dragonskunkstudio7582]

Idiocracy gets it right too brought to you by Skillshare. Where humanity is reduced to mindless consumers brought to you by Skillshare. It's not cyberpunk but is a movie that brings all the ugliness of cyberpunk brought to you by Skillshare. Ironically, you talk about bombardment of advertising on the internet brought to you by Skillshare.

[@cobalt2220]

It's kinda funny that he can use the ads for everything else he analyzes, but once he analyzes cyberpunk he's ethically obligated to turn them off. Hypocrite or no, we wouldn't even be watching him if he didn't have the ad revenue to support himself. All of us operate in the system even if we argue against it.

[@Biomirth]

@Cobalt It's not hypocritical as much as it's perhaps 'less pure' than criticizing a system from the outside. However, criticism of the way in which a system has been implemented or of it's necessary pitfalls is not condemnation of the entire thing. Furthermore, the topic of cyberpunk requires an exploration of criticisms of capitalism. Raising those concerns in this context is not the same as just out of left field making a video criticizing aspects of capitalism. These are the fundamental nuances of being able to navigate any topic without trying to hammer it into some black and white preconception.

[@cobalt2220]

@@Biomirth Well put. It may be a contradictory (or ironic) thing to do, but it is indeed warranted. I actually think if it was weaved into that point it would've helped reinforce it.

[@QwertyCaesar]

Idiocracy is straight up eugenics and pseudo meritocracy, though. You know, things cyberpunk is generally critical of.

[@earthknight60]

Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep (Blade Runner) was published in 1968. Johnny Mnemonic was in 1981 (predating both the move version of Blade Runner and Neuromancer). John brunner's Shockwave Rider in 1975 is often credited as being the novel to kick off the genre, although the genre gets its roots a few years earlier. You should clarify that you're talking specifically about the graphic representation of this genre in film and TV, *not* the genre itself. At least in your intro.

[@gatobuho-]

I feel like he only spoke superficially about what cyberpunk means as a genre and I feel like he also confuses what a genre in movies or other audiovisual media means.

[@JacobSprenger]

@@Alexeon Deckard has a wife that chugs mood pills before having an argument with him, for starters.

[@Victor-kt6qn]

I think cyberpunk and steampunk are my favorite. They're so fascinating. Just noticed how nerdy that sounded

[@Thee_Sinner]

Coincidentally I just finished binging Altered Carbon for the second time yesterday lol

[@regulusvizsla2951]

Me: How trending is Cyberpunk 2077 rn??? KZbin algorithm:

[@NikolaNovak]

Thanks!

[@trillo3332]

Please cover my favorite sub-genre: The Sci-Fi Western! Cowboy Bebop, Firefly, even Cowboys and Aliens, and Overwatch.

[@matthewlee4834]

I don't understand why you would say Overwatch. What do you think of Borderlands?

[@daos3300]

Trillo 333 and how did you miss (all three versions of) westworld ?

[@vykx88]

Don't forget Trigun

[@WernerEdgar]

Love Altered Carbon... thank you for this deep-dive into the genre, even if you didn't find what you were looking for in that show. Though I would at least argue that the encroaching ads are actually very explicitly depicted in the series when he sees all the sex ads in the earlier episodes. The city does look great, but also ominous, and the added VR ads make it intolerable. I would argue it's actually one of the best depictions of what our future may bring (if we don't change our political course) with a really big emphasis on increased disparity between the rich and poor... it's pretty much the entire shows theme.

[@deusexmachina9776]

It seemed like just another boring cop show so they threw in a bunch of scifi to hide it. The themes are never fully explored and pushed aside for generic action.

[@WernerEdgar]

@@deusexmachina9776 While AC very much starts out as a whodunit, it absolutely changes to explore questions like what is the worth of life and the influence of trauma. Above that, there are various cyberpunk themes addressed throughout, like a futuristic dystopia where many of our current problems are not any better than they are today and even exasperated by technology. (edited for clarity.)

[@esotericmissionary]

"Deep dive"? Man, you fucking soulless mind sheltered electric sheep, you.

[@deusexmachina9776]

​@@WernerEdgar Tell me, please, what themes does the show bring up that and explores in their own way? The show is littered with references from well thought out and established scifi which they 'borrowed'. I just kept seeping parts of The Matrix, Ghost in A Shell, Blade Runner. It does not have merits of its own. The Expanse, a future classic, makes this show look bad. They never explained why being put to sleep for 200 years and waking up in the future is a bad thing. The explanation was to why he kept seeing his sister and girlfriend was lazy. The worst foreshadowing I have ever seen. Especially with the girlfriend when the explanation was 'he knew she was live'... It has cliches, the generic action hero, the sassy latino cop who swears in her mother tongue, the rich people. They just used science fiction to hide the flaws and the bad acting and the poor script. The sad thing is it worked. Just like there are people blinded by romance like the Twilight crowed there are those blinded by mere scifi.

[@redviper324]

@@deusexmachina9776For me the worst part about it was the cringy dialogues. Oh, and the retarded monologues that last 5 minutes but don't say anything !

[@96Eclipsed]

Thank you for adding Mr. Robot....one the best shows to come along in years and definitely cyberpunk!

[@martini668]

Great show

[@horacio1464]

And where is Dredd? The one with Karl Urban is cyberpunk af

[@melmagallon6233]

Amazing insight into Altered Carbon. As much as I found the show entertaining, there was definitely a disconnect with it and I couldn't put my finger on it. Saying it was outdated due to using outdated cyberpunk tropes really hit the nail on the head IMO.

[@denusklausen3685]

insane how I have always cyberpunk AND noir respectively without even realizing how much they are connected... There must be something about that draws you.

[@grkpektis]

The sequel to Altered Carbon takes the story in a completely new Cyberpunk direction hopefully season 2 is fateful to the book

[@cybertonto72]

But parts of the 2nd book where in the first series and too much of it would need to be rewritten to make a story out of it, which is a total shame Also some of the parts left out of the book could never be shown to a tv/film audience

[@zerogbot23]

The books are amazing man

[@fishfish8879]

“It is sometimes an appropriate response to reality to go insane.” ― Philip K. Dick, VALIS

[@Evanderj]

The cultural context, zeitgeist, and historical influences discussed in this video really set it apart. Really fantastic. Cyberpunk, to me, reflects anxieties about modern culture & mirrors the perception of the oppressive nature of society better than any other genre. How it wraps it up in a harsh beauty that I can’t get enough of is the most intriguing duality. I’m attracted to it despite its warning of our most dangerous natures.

[@crystallkingh3048]

well, it's kinda like the way steampunk is 1880's sci-fi, cyberpunk is 1980's sci-fi and based on that look and feel.

[@whenthedustfallsaway]

underrated comment. Its a perspective on the future built on the views of of a time-period.

[@thedarthcader7055]

Anyone else watching this in 2020 and when he talks about world ending things you immediately think of corona.

[@FabianofNazareth1968]

I just caught this video as I am starting a Cyberpunk book. Glad we have some of the same opinions on the genre. When I finish I will try to remember to come back and comment again one day.

[@j.e.purrazzi484]

I really enjoyed this episode and as a Cyberpunk/biopunk writer, I've argued this same point multiple times and struggled with how to market my work when it doesn't have the normal feel of a Cyberpunk novel. Which is why I chose to focus on Biopunk and, which is much less established and is sort of a baby offshoot of the genre. Your insight into how the genre reflected the time and how that should change to reflect more modern concerns with more modern times is great! I really enjoyed your thoughts there! I would, however, argue with you about the focus on corporations and capitalism. I would consider that a trope and not the actually focus of the genre. Looking at it purely from the basics, Cyberpunk is a clash of the human and the mechanical be it through bionics and AI, or computers and hacking. That is the "cyber" side of things. And the "punk" offers some insight on the fact that the story should involve what you called "raging against the machine" but I think that a cyberpunk set in a dystopia, or post-apocalypse, or even a very popular setting with technology itself in the form of AI as the enemy, is just as valid as long as it follows that punk mentality of a single person or small group fighting against it for their own individuality. Still, like I said, I love your thoughts. I feel like Cyberpunk is far often pushed out of it's rightful place in Science Fiction and not acknowledged as being the influential and impactful genre that it is, due to the fact that most people recognize it ONLY by this one aesthetic. Which is, admittedly, fun, and my next series with play with it more but is still really not an accurate depiction of what this genre is capable of. Anyway, loved the content. Keep it up.

[@GGrev]

Do you have any work i can read/see? :o

[@realblush]

This is amazing, because it basically proves that Cyberpunk 2077 is all style and 0 substance.

[@emperorofthegreatunknown4394]

Finally, someone who paid attention.

[@danilthorstensson8902]

It’s pastiche. Too bad

[@michaelernst3731]

In Blade Runner , the Ending death seen of the main antagonist's death was all improved and is LEDGENED !

[@wearywanderer7018]

I absolutely love altered carbon. A cyberpunk show allows for more exploration.