Imam Tom discusses The Impossible State by Prof Wael Hallaq (part 2)

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[@UTICAMASJID]

❤️

[@nomad051]

astaghfirullah x5

[@MrSaifkamal]

@@nomad051 This is Bromance 😊

[@liyanabatrisyia946]

Im currently writing my undergrad thesis on islam within southeast asia..I was in a slump just 2 days ago, but mashaallah I saw these two videos about the state and islam and how religion is controlled and it gave me so much inspiration now! thank you brother Paul! jazakallah :)

[@sujinabdulsalam]

Where can I read it? I am interested what all you referred for it.

[@OptimizedMuslim]

Imam Tom and Blogging Theology - killer combination ماشاءالله

[@BloggingTheology]

Alhamdulillah

[@shooshcatlover9509]

I totally agree!

[@cogthusiast1150]

Imam Tom is the most "listenable" Madinah uni grad I've yet to come across. Amazing stuff.

[@banaresali]

This dude is down to earth talking and able to communicate really complex subject matter in a high caliber intellectual manner. Very gifted.

[@codingblues3181]

I made it must watch for my teenage children, with my commentary!

[@alienmode1478]

How fortunate, i literally finished the playlist with Imam Tom's videos yesterday and wanted more

[@muhammedmuktharjavid3269]

In the wishlist

[@Raks78]

Really really good discussion. Jazakallah brothers . So many salient features which I myself would have never even pondered on

[@kameliabrown3984]

Thank you Paul Williams for reminding us that the word terror actually was coined by the French at the time of their revolution and was almost used in a good sense

[@shaukatmahmood9086]

These videos are really gems and enlightening, please do more videos with Imam Tom. May Allah bless you both

[@sonbahar5296]

Thank you, Paul and Imam Tom!👍👍

[@shefayetchowdhury6316]

Always a pleasure to listen to Br. Tom... Love the idea of going through the book in these series... Look forward to the next part.

[@1aninterpreter1]

Hallaq has touched on some pretty deep questions. The legitimacy of the state and modernity's "evolving" morality. I gotta get that book. Thank you for this brothers Paul and Imam Tom.

[@mash0000]

Thank you Paul and Imam Tom for this fabulaous and insightful discssion, unpacking "The Impossible State" by Hallaq. Now I can read the book :). Looking for more from Imam Tom in the future.

[@fwzikrm]

The cover design is “A Penrose triangle” which signifies a type of optical illusion….more specifically an optical illusion consisting of an object which can be depicted in a perspective drawing, but cannot exist as a solid object…characterizing the state and how the author sees it….it is interesting to note that within the penrose triangle, you find the text of impossible state….which draws on self internalization (and our colonial deconstruction) of the Ummah to identify what the is the state-altern….very cool indeed :)

[@gsxii1292]

I stumbled upon akh Tom today for the first time nay allah keeps him on the straight path as for u akhi paul. Tom is elequant smart and very humble a very lovely brother

[@mhamed1432]

Very interesting discussion. Thank you Paul & Imam Tom.

[@OPM6906]

Can't wait for a pt3 I've been wondering how things were before and how would a shariah state function on the ground today. Masha Allah, the 2 videos so far we're very enlightening. Barakallah for this you 2

[@GenerationSalaahudDeen]

Amazing insights. When I finish this series then read the actual book, I’d love to summarise it into points then make tiny posts to ring home the concepts. This is a big development for the world. Jzkl Paul and Tom.

[@ruhmuhaccer864]

Alhamdulillah. The waiting since ladt weekend has not been in vain. Allahumma barik.

[@khadramohamed8367]

A priceless talk! Thank you!

[@Solemn_G]

Tremendously fascinating and insightful. Jazaakum Allahu Khayran

[@Mr.Jasaw13]

absolutely brilliant one, love it JZK for this series

[@aminaahmad8328]

Excellent exposition of the modern state. As well, the definition of time within modernity - in stark contrast to Surah ASR: By the End of the Day!Truly Man is ruined in loss!Save those who believe and work righteous deeds, and bid each other to right, and bid each other to patience. As a side note, I urge viewers to google the video of President George Bush junior fumbling to answer his understanding of American Indian sovereignty.

[@irfanahmed6411]

Dear brother Paul Allah bless you you are doing great work on this planet and we love you

[@vmoses1979]

Excellent discussion gentlemen as always. I will say that at 33.00 where Imam Tom mentions that the western state is judge, jury and executioner and is not subject to a higher power- the argument would be that "state" is somewhat vague as the executive/legislative branches are technically subject to the judicial branch(the check and balance you refer to). However - the executive/legislative can write new laws to get around the judiciary as they see fit. I assume that is what you meant in the end.

[@MrSongib]

Subahannallah this is a great discussion, and "Coincidentally" (There are no such things as coincidence) a few days ago I just watch and was reminded again about Angel Jibreel and Mika’eel giving some examples about the kingdom of Allah and Islam to prophets Muhammad PBUH. It's so beautiful what Allah gives us in Islam. Salam for all of you guys. ty

[@justmeldin6062]

what are theese examples can you share please

[@MrSongib]

@@justmeldin6062 I forgot the video sorry bro, but think it is from Yaqeen Institute when they talking about the angels.

[@dark_attack7896]

السَّلاَمُ عَلَيْكُمْ وَرَحْمَةُ اللهِ وَبَرَكَاتُهُ USTADZ..., CONGRATULATION MUALLAF DAY IN THE WORLD. BARAKALLAHU FEEKUM. (at Indonesia, 25 des is MUALLAF DAY FOR THE WORLD).

[@juanway]

What a chat, barakallahu feekum gentlemen!

[@ozone2126]

Mashallah ❤❤

[@shooshcatlover9509]

Thanks!

[@BloggingTheology]

Many thanks!

[@fmvrpv3509]

"AlQuran is yesterday, today, and tomorrow"

[@solomonroasthead7914]

Yusuf 12:108-111 (108) قُلْ هَٰذِهِۦ سَبِيلِىٓ أَدْعُوٓا۟ إِلَى ٱللَّهِۚ عَلَىٰ بَصِيرَةٍ أَنَا۠ وَمَنِ ٱتَّبَعَنِىۖ وَسُبْحَٰنَ ٱللَّهِ وَمَآ أَنَا۠ مِنَ ٱلْمُشْرِكِينَ (109) وَمَآ أَرْسَلْنَا مِن قَبْلِكَ إِلَّا رِجَالًا نُّوحِىٓ إِلَيْهِم مِّنْ أَهْلِ ٱلْقُرَىٰٓۗ أَفَلَمْ يَسِيرُوا۟ فِى ٱلْأَرْضِ فَيَنظُرُوا۟ كَيْفَ كَانَ عَٰقِبَةُ ٱلَّذِينَ مِن قَبْلِهِمْۗ وَلَدَارُ ٱلْءَاخِرَةِ خَيْرٌ لِّلَّذِينَ ٱتَّقَوْا۟ۗ أَفَلَا تَعْقِلُونَ (110) حَتَّىٰٓ إِذَا ٱسْتَيْـَٔسَ ٱلرُّسُلُ وَظَنُّوٓا۟ أَنَّهُمْ قَدْ كُذِبُوا۟ جَآءَهُمْ نَصْرُنَا فَنُجِّىَ مَن نَّشَآءُۖ وَلَا يُرَدُّ بَأْسُنَا عَنِ ٱلْقَوْمِ ٱلْمُجْرِمِينَ (111) لَقَدْ كَانَ فِى قَصَصِهِمْ عِبْرَةٌ لِّأُو۟لِى ٱلْأَلْبَٰبِۗ مَا كَانَ حَدِيثًا يُفْتَرَىٰ وَلَٰكِن تَصْدِيقَ ٱلَّذِى بَيْنَ يَدَيْهِ وَتَفْصِيلَ كُلِّ شَىْءٍ وَهُدًى وَرَحْمَةً لِّقَوْمٍ يُؤْمِنُونَ English - Dr. Mustafa Khattab, the Clear Quran (108) Say, ˹O Prophet,˺ “This is my way. I invite to Allah with insight-I and those who follow me. Glory be to Allah, and I am not one of the polytheists.” (109) We only sent before you ˹O Prophet˺ men inspired by Us from among the people of each society. Have the deniers not travelled through the land to see what was the end of those ˹destroyed˺ before them? And surely the ˹eternal˺ Home of the Hereafter is far better for those mindful ˹of Allah˺. Will you not then understand? (110) And when the messengers despaired and their people thought the messengers had been denied help, Our help came to them ˹at last˺. We then saved whoever We willed, and Our punishment is never averted from the wicked people. (111) In their stories there is truly a lesson for people of reason. This message cannot be a fabrication, rather ˹it is˺ a confirmation of previous revelation, a detailed explanation of all things, a guide, and a mercy for people of faith. French - Muhammad Hamidullah (108) Dis: «Voici ma voie, j'appelle les gens à [la religion] d'Allah, moi et ceux qui me suivent, nous basant sur une preuve évidente. Gloire à Allah! Et je ne suis point du nombre des associateurs. (109) Nous n'avons envoyé avant toi que des hommes originaires des cités, à qui Nous avons fait des révélations. [Ces gens là] n'ont-ils pas parcouru la terre et considéré quelle fut la fin de ceux qui ont vécu avant eux? La demeure de l'au-delà est assurément meilleure pour ceux qui craignent [Allah]. Ne raisonnerez-vous donc pas? (110) Quand les messagers faillirent perdre espoir (et que leurs adeptes) eurent pensé qu'ils étaient dupés voilà que vint à eux Notre secours. Et furent sauvés ceux que Nous voulûmes. Mais Notre rigueur ne saurait être détournée des gens criminels. (111) Dans leurs récits il y a certes une leçon pour les gens doués d'intelligence. Ce n'est point là un récit fabriqué. C'est au contraire la confirmation de ce qui existait déjà avant lui, un exposé détaillé de toute chose, un guide et une miséricorde pour des gens qui croient.

[@dark_attack7896]

THANKYOU SIR....

[@shooshcatlover9509]

Loved it!

[@mrafiuddin]

Masha Allah.

[@baloocallout678]

Alhamdulillah!

[@s.a9794]

Salam alaykum dear Paul, I would like to ask you a question, because I think most of the scholars are not taking this serious: What do you think about Near Death Experience or about a Medium, who is able to talk with dead people? In NDEs and when a Medium talks to a dead person they all tell that there is no hell and that the people are with their relatives in a good place full of light now (what we call Barzakh I guess) and that they are united there. How does this fit into our religion? Because not everyone will have a good place in Barzakh, depends on how you lived your live on earth right? I would love to hear your answer, thank you☺️

[@mohameddiaa1975]

Mashaa Allah

[@ronakram6690]

Masha Allah

[@chuckhillier4153]

Thank you again for broadcasting this and your other talks. They are a big help in my effort to understand you points of view. There are many points that you make that I'd like to comment on. Forgive me if I seem thick headed, In the “state” that I’m familiar with here in the United States, the authority above those exercising state power are voters. This is not a myth. Surely you’ll recognize that President Trump was thrown out of office here two years ago by voters. Power was taken from him by a higher authority, i.e., voters. Famously, he would not have relinquished office had a more powerful (higher) authority not taken it from him. This accountability to the higher authority of voters occurs here on the national level, the level of each of the fifty states, counties within states and in towns within counties. I have participated in this and witness it myself all the time. I’m wondering how a state that is ruled by a higher divine authority works. How does God enforce his authority over a wayward head of state? What is the method by which God imposes authority over a ruler? If there is no enforcement method, there is no enforcement. If no enforcement, no authority. Am I right? Contrary to your statement, here in the U.S. students are allowed to pray in schools and do so. The state (teachers) are not allowed to require or sponsor praying. Big difference. It seems unlikely that western states somehow forced easterners to enjoy jazz. How were people forced to like jazz, rock & roll or hip hop or Disney movies? Seems like an illogical reach to suggest a lack of free will or the presence of mass brainwashing. At the conclusion you both agree that an Islamic state would not be rigid or monolithic and would be tolerant of differing beliefs. The world currently has one famously theocratic Islamic State - one that regularly says it wants to kill me and all Americans -Iran. Surely Iran’s nationwide protests against rigidity and monolithicness (is that a word?) must be explained for your statement on this score to be anywhere near accepted.

[@mash0000]

Ligitimate questions. Through the voting process, voters delegate the authority to the state. But the voters are fooled by the media. Media is controlled by money. Corporation, special interest group, and rich individuals dole out money to influence the outcome in their favor. And, voters are often presented with only two choices, and they select the lesser of the two evils. I think, the question about Iran is valid, though I would say that "it wants to kill Americans" is a western media optics. Iran claims to be a theocratic society; so, how come the state apparatus is continuing to kill people for minor violatoins with impunity? Why the Iran's executive is not dismissed by the Ayatullah, as he is assumed to be the guardian?

[@ezazahmed8379]

Some of your questions were addressed in part 1. But I will try to explain to the best of my abilities. Also forgive my bad English as this will be a long read. Voters aren't the ultimate authority. Nothing really changes if you look closely. To imagine a political system where God is the ultimate authority, you first have to take a step out of the paradigm you were raised in. Try to imagine a ruler only being capable of implementing rules within the boundaries of religious law. If not, nobody will listen to him. Add to that you have a fear of revolution. Nobody forced anyone to listen to jazz. It's a reference to the soft power the nation holds under the hood. In the same way the state doesn't explicitly forbid praying, it's the subtle yet unspoken obstacles they're talking about. Finally, by Allah, there hasn't been a political system which follows the Sharia since the downfall of the Ottoman empire. All you see around the world are combinations of the western 'nation state' and some surface elements of the Sharia without the essence. The Saud family is quite literally a puppet to the US due to the petrodollar deal, Sisi rules egypt because he was placed there by the west and the list goes on. I don't blame you for believing in the media. If I believed it then I would've thought the west only wants the total massacre and annihilation of those that don't agree with them including me. But that isn't the case, nor is it the case for the supposedly 'Sharia' based 'nation state' of Iran.

[@chuckhillier4153]

@@ezazahmed8379 Thank you for your reply. I'm looking forward to an explanation of how a Sharia ruler will be selected and how deposed if replacement is needed.

[@alhashmy1310]

Have you watched other his episodes or only just this one ?

[@vmoses1979]

To add one further point to brother Ezazahmed's eloquent reply - Iran is a shia state so its self declared Islamic state is not representative of orthodox or Sunni Islam. And the idea that Iran wants to kill Americans is about as accurate as believing all Americans are gun toting obese invading imperialists. This is just propaganda. Iran has its own agenda which is in conflict with the US one and as such, it's in the government's interests to portray them as some demonic force intent on annihilating Americans. Finally - as another poster stated - to properly understand this paradigm which is radicly different from the western one - consider watching more videos about this topic on BT or Imam Tom's channel at Utica Masjid.

[@aminaayad4928]

So what's the next book discussion with Imam Tom?

[@solomonroasthead7914]

An-Nazi'at 79:15-26 (15) هَلْ أَتَىٰكَ حَدِيثُ مُوسَىٰٓ (16) إِذْ نَادَىٰهُ رَبُّهُۥ بِٱلْوَادِ ٱلْمُقَدَّسِ طُوًى (17) ٱذْهَبْ إِلَىٰ فِرْعَوْنَ إِنَّهُۥ طَغَىٰ (18) فَقُلْ هَل لَّكَ إِلَىٰٓ أَن تَزَكَّىٰ (19) وَأَهْدِيَكَ إِلَىٰ رَبِّكَ فَتَخْشَىٰ (20) فَأَرَىٰهُ ٱلْءَايَةَ ٱلْكُبْرَىٰ (21) فَكَذَّبَ وَعَصَىٰ (22) ثُمَّ أَدْبَرَ يَسْعَىٰ (23) فَحَشَرَ فَنَادَىٰ (24) فَقَالَ أَنَا۠ رَبُّكُمُ ٱلْأَعْلَىٰ (25) فَأَخَذَهُ ٱللَّهُ نَكَالَ ٱلْءَاخِرَةِ وَٱلْأُولَىٰٓ (26) إِنَّ فِى ذَٰلِكَ لَعِبْرَةً لِّمَن يَخْشَىٰٓ English - Dr. Mustafa Khattab, the Clear Quran (15) Has the story of Moses reached you ˹O Prophet˺? (16) His Lord called him in the sacred valley of Ṭuwa, (17) ˹commanding,˺ “Go to Pharaoh, for he has truly transgressed ˹all bounds˺. (18) And say, ‘Would you ˹be willing to˺ purify yourself, (19) and let me guide you to your Lord so that you will be in awe ˹of Him˺?’” (20) Then Moses showed him the great sign,[[ The staff turning into a snake. See {20:17}-23.]] (21) but he denied and disobeyed ˹Allah˺, (22) then turned his back, striving ˹against the truth˺. (23) Then he summoned ˹his people˺ and called out, (24) saying, “I am your lord, the most high!” (25) So Allah overtook him, making him an example in this life and the next. (26) Surely in this is a lesson for whoever stands in awe of ˹Allah˺. French - Muhammad Hamidullah (15) Le récit de Moïse t'est-il parvenu? (16) Quand son Seigneur l'appela, dans Towâ, la vallée sanctifiée: (17) «Va vers Pharaon. Vraiment, il s'est rebellé!» (18) Puis dis-lui: «Voudrais-tu te purifier? (19) et que je te guide vers ton Seigneur afin que tu Le craignes?» (20) Il lui fit voir le très grand miracle. (21) Mais il le qualifia de mensonge et désobéit; (22) Ensuite, il tourna le dos, s'en alla précipitamment, (23) rassembla [les gens] et leur fit une proclamation, (24) et dit: «C'est moi votre Seigneur, le très haut». (25) Alors Allah le saisit de la punition exemplaire de l'au-delà et de celle d'ici-bas. (26) Il y a certes là un sujet de réflexion pour celui qui craint.

[@DWAGON1818]

Five minutes from now the thinking " five minutes from now, the thinking will be out dated" will be outdated.

[@FarhatKCh]

Can someone add timestamps please?

[@BloggingTheology]

Insha Allah

[@sabaidaniel555]

I wonder what would happen to gay and trans people (and other sexual / gender minorities) in their ideal society?

[@chef4823]

Where is part3????

[@BloggingTheology]

coming soon..

[@midnightmoonlight1597]

What's going on with the ads? Every 2 mins? Far too many! Spoils trains of thought being expressed.

[@RayOfHope8]

❤️❤️❤️❤️🤲🤲🤲

[@naserrahman1877]

19:45

[@mohdnorzaihar2632]

may a glass of milk, water, fruits and minimal dinner pleased our day

[@bakrhawari3045]

25:57 Hallaq escaped the matrix 😂

[@paulthomas281]

"Undergoing God's judgement" as Paul says is also culturally contingent in the extreme. It too does not allow itself to be critiqued. The same charges that these two are levelling against modernity - culturally rooted in Europe and self-sabotage with respect to internal critique. Modernity's presuppositions and roots are not universal. The presuppositions behind "Undergoing God's judgment" are not universal. "Moral time" as opposed to "modern time" as Tom Facchine is explicating for us is FULL OF BOOBYTRAPS for the intellect and the soul. Modernity must be disembowelled at the level of discourse, absolutely. So must Islam. And when Tom says the state cannot be viewed as this transhistorical category, why does not he say the same thing for empire? Muslims don't seem to be against empires, just non-Islamic ones. And again Tom is so short-sighted in some of his statements, "The state is a homogenising force; it reduces the complexity that we have". Well, guess what, the State REDUCES THE TRIBALISM that we have. This is highly, highly valuable. If he really wants not "One law for all" (regardless of the mythology behind that, and the fact that we don't actually have one law for all), but "Laws for different tribes", then I'm interested in the case to be made for that. Now, to be fair a lot of what Tom is talking about describes accurately the rife tensions among Europeans with respect to the European Union for European peoples, that French/British people or whoever are being called to consider themselves European first, then French/British, or as European as French/British; Union interests before national community interests. I cannot side with local actors in this tension. I don't think it is a good thing that Europe holds back from being a super-state or civilisational state (like India). Europe's future depends on it. If others disagree, this is the debate we must be having.

[@pablobarroso2063]

From a marxist point of view, French Revolution secularization is not about universal values. Marxism insists in civil rights instead of universal values proposed by liberals through: capitalism, German idealism and political French theory. All of them come from a theological inversion of values from Protestantism, all the religion as a system of thought without theological explanation. Think for a moment, Social Doctrine from Catholic Chruch has its own problem and it was a response against modernity with Rerum Novarum (1891). Modernity, in fact, is the secularization of theological inversion of Protestantism where the individual plays a very important role, that's why Kant and other thinkers have a big association with Protestantism and in a very clear way with Hegel on Lectures of History of Philosophy where he insists that Protestantism is superior than Buddhism and Catholicism because of the subjetivity. It is a big lie to think modernity as universal truth when there are many responses agaisnt that. Even atheism is very different from Paraguay (Catholic country) and the UK. Spanish philosopher developed this of the types of atheism as a cultural element. In fact, he was recognized a s a Cahtolic atheist.

[@temporarybackup5077]

👉👉👉 41:11

[@waise28]

Wow he’s so young hard to take him seriously

[@BloggingTheology]

thats a shame

[@waise28]

@@BloggingTheology but of course after listening to him he’s extremely knowledgeable

[@Mohammad-yz3hq]

First

[@paulthomas281]

Paul said in the beginning that the "I" might get added to LGBTQ+. Why does he categorically think incest is horrendous? Allah certainly does not. Allah is not against incest between siblings. Allah fashioned the son and daughter of Adam and Eve to copulate and have offspring. If Allah is against incest between siblings today, that he means he is against it today, we cannot say he has been against it all the time.

[@gegeeh.a8328]

Are you mad

[@boogus1670]

There’s a Jew ad

[@xmarksthespot4916]

It’s a hypocritical Jewish ad, they are just collecting money from Christians to support Israel. The Christians are such idiots when it comes to working with the Jews.

[@nasernazamyar9783]

Yes very strange

[@RaiseThePressure]

use Adblocker

[@nasernazamyar9783]

@@RaiseThePressure can you use adblocker with iPhone?

[@RaiseThePressure]

@@nasernazamyar9783 hmm I don't think so but on Android based OS' you can I had an app on an iPhone for a bit that did block ads but it was only on the browser and you had to manually add the links to the site that you wanted to block ads from

[@FiveStarArmchairGeneral]

A question about the voting part: As we live in a non-muslim country, isn't it better to vote at least for a muslim oriented party who can push back on some issues as for example lgbt lessons at schools? I dont really understand how this is 'giving bayah', because i look at it as a necessity to put brakes on a society that will further limit the movement of muslims Because the alternative is that the secular state will further erode muslim rights. The only thing that i can counter with this standpoint is that you have to migrate to another country. Then the question would be at what point you have to migrate. And to be honest, i dont see muslims migrating in the millions from Europe to 'muslim' countries. Besides that, as you already pointed out, there isn't really a muslim country in it's true essence so even migrating wouldn't mean you're in a true muslim country. I dont say that i'm right, but i like to have somebody's viewpoint on this issue.