Recreating Original Chassepot M1866 Needlefire Paper Cartridges

[@britishmuzzleloaders]

For the love of God,... it's 0130 and I can't bring myself to turn this off...,....... masterful, Chap,... truly.

[@BlokeontheRange]

It is awesome, is it not?

[@thebotrchap]

High praise indeed! I’m blushing 😊

[@slaughterround643]

You know, I always imagined Rob would say the time in hundreds of hours... (e.g. one hundred and thirty hours for 1:30am) Speaking of time, are you lot time travelers?? 9 months ago? (I'm joking, I know how youtube works!)

[@benrobertson7855]

Ahh self control,now I am late for work.

[@capandball]

I had the insturctions you used on hand for many years, but never had a will to reproduce the original cartridge. Now i did it following your video. I have never seen such overcomplicated cartridge before! :) Thanks for the tips, excellent video!

[@thebotrchap]

My pleasure! I must admit I hardly ever make these any more. I use a new method which takes hardly any more time than reloading a modern cartridge. I have a vid on it but we will not release it here since YT now considers reloading as taboo.

[@homerogarzajr1787]

The legend himself!

[@TheMysticalBadger]

​@@thebotrchap Is that available one utreon or any other platform?

[@thebotrchap]

@@TheMysticalBadger It’s on Utreon in three different languages 😊

[@TheMysticalBadger]

@@thebotrchap Thanks/Merci/Danke!

[@myhr9717]

We need a whole channel for "Chap in the shed" This shit is so therapeutic

[@petergosden1]

Hello BOTR. Inspired by your video I have been working on cartridges for my own Chassepot. As close to the original as possible without those specific requirements for a military environment. My first discovery was the poor quality of the percussion compound in todays caps. The addition of something like toy caps became essential. Still working on even better alternatives. The second realisation was that todays caps are deeper than the original. As a consequence the needle doesn't penetrate as far, hindering ignition. Especially having to also penetrate the rubber disc. I solved that problem with a simple tool. A short metal cylinder with a blind, flat base hole the diameter of the cap but only 2/3rds as deep. I then use the larger Lee Precision flaring die insert to spread the exposed cap flanges and then reverse the insert to hammer them flat. That, coupled with a slightly longer needle, now gives 100% reliability.

[@thebotrchap]

Glad to hear you have found a solution!

[@kenb7051]

I think this is why the french are so good at rolling there own cigarettes

[@uckfayooglegay9982]

Well they have been doing it since they were 14.

[@joshua7233]

This is soooo satisfying to watch.

[@angusgreeneyeslefay9485]

I just watch this video with outmost respect to this gentelman who displays so much care ,love and skill.Really exemplary attitude,thank you for this brilliant footige.

[@thebotrchap]

Angus M. LeFay Thank you very much!

[@grefoxke]

Awesome, I'm getting my grandfather's this summer

[@johnfisk811]

Excellent work old Chap. The closer one gets to the original the better they work I have found. Trivial point: I went from normal bicycle inner tube to natural latex and invested in inner tubes made from that which were much more stretchy and less inclined to 'hang up' on the needle and were easily blown down the barrel after the bullet had passed out and the gas pressure dropped to less than the gas trapped behind the disk. The expense of the more expensive inner tubes were trivial when so many disks can be cut out of one out open t a big band. No latex gloves are too thin as is the other thought that comes to mind. Well done. This will be a standard work of reference.

[@thebotrchap]

john fisk Hi, the move to latex had indeed been suggested to me shortly after making this vid. I have since bought a latex exercise band apparently for use in some form of fitness fad. It’s a bit harder to punch discs out of it but needles do seem to pierce through more easily.

[@budslinger6877]

I found the English version yay!

[@gwtpictgwtpict4214]

@rwsthedemonking Aw, could you show us on the dolly where the nasty foreigner touched you?

[@slaughterround643]

The edge is real... Buddy, if you don't like it, you know where the subscribe button is. We don't need your kind around these parts.

[@gehtdianschasau8372]

@rwsthedemonking Du bist ein Vollpfosten.

[@blueband8114]

Thanks for the up load, this covers my particular interest dates in military history 1790- 1918. The Dreyse and Chassepot are my Favourite exhibits at the Royal Armoury in Leeds( frequent visitor) like Bloke on the range vids, and educational. Hip hip hurrah.

[@MrGarwest]

It is great to observe how to recreate a Cartouche Mle. 1866 on KZbin. We recreate cartridges in a similar way for the sake of authenticity.We were reproducing them since the 1980s, after dismantling original cartridges to obtain data: powder charge, bullet dimensions, paper thickness etc. As can be expected, chambering such a powerful cartridge, recoil from the Gendarmerie a Cheval is punishing.The above method was also utilised for the various Dreyse cartridge models from the initial M/41 through to the final M/72 Patrone. An informative and interesting channel conveyed with a welcome sense of humour.Guy and Leonard A-R-West

[@jobo1647]

Simply amazing. I thought casting and loading my own ammunition was an involved process, this is an entirely different level. Excellent and interesting video, thank you!!!

[@jasonb1776]

Outstanding video. Thank you so much for posting it. I have struggled for a long time with those original plans as to exactly how it all fitted together. I used the 'simple' cartridge method before as you mention but it does lack a certain something. I now look forward to trying to make cartridges as good as yours. Best wishes.

[@thebotrchap]

Jason Buckingham Glad it can be of use. There will be a follow up vid showing the plans for a simple tool set I have developed for speeding up the making the powder tube.

[@jediknight129]

Best brown paper and parrafin wax thats what you need. As for the cartridges VERY impressive and a lot of research, You do beautiful work and I can imagine the first firing was incredibly satisfying. that's a very nice punch set, I need one soon.

[@robertsacks7995]

The Chap in the shop! Fun and informative.

[@wierdalien1]

40 minutes of the Chap. Sign me up!

Here I sit, calmly listening to the dulcet tones of The Chap as he meticulously assembles a very much obsolete cartridge from craft paper and glue while my inner geek is joyfully lurch dancing around the room.

[@krossF]

incredible dedication to the craft!

[@colinarmstrong1892]

Interesting that even then they realised that powders behaved like fluids when vibrated at the correct frequency... Excellent Video keep them coming

[@nirfz]

i thought you would use your tool from 21:15 to insert the "percussion assembly" into the paper to be sure it doesn't flip upside down. (also when i first saw your tools assembled i misstook the orange punch box with a first aid box and wanted to comment how safety conscious you are, until i looked closer ;-) )

[@hakkonen27]

That's a whole lot of work for one cartridge. You have to really like shooting a Chassepot to go to that much trouble.

[@michaelmayo3127]

The correct name of the rifle is Dreyse Zündnadelgewehr M/41 or leichtes Perkussionsgewehr M/41 The Prussian breech-loading rifle was constructed by blacksmith Johann Nikolaus Dreyse. Dreyse, who was trained as a blacksmith, first worked in Germany and then from 1809 to 1814 in Pauli's Gun Factory in Paris, after which he founded a factory of iron goods in Sömmerda in Thuringia. Here he began to develop and modernize existing rifle designs, i.a. In 1824, he improved the construction and firing rate of the percussion caps and then set up a percussion cap factory under the Firm mane D. & Collenbusch in Sömmerda. He worked diligently to construct a unit cartridge for rifles, i.e. a unit which had to contain both bullet, gunpowder and incendiary= ( percussion cap). This led in 1827 to the invention of the firing pin rifle. The first prototype was to be reloaded like the already known rifles, but in 1836 this changed to breech-loading. The rifle was tested by various Prussian units from 1839 to 1840. This progressed satisfactorily, and on 4 December 1840 Dreyse received the order for 60,000 breech-loading rifles with associated ammunition. The production of these rifles designated “leichtes Perkussionsgewehr M/41” (Light Percussion Rifle M/41) began in the spring of 1841 in Dreyse's newly equipped factory in Sömmerda. The rifle was considered a state secret. After delivery, the rifles were stored in Berlin's clothing store. Here they lay until 1848, when, during a revolutionary uprising in Baden and Saxony, they were handed over to the Fusilier battalions of the line regiments and received their baptism of fire in street battles. The next time the Dreyse rifle was used in battle was in the Second Schleswig War in 1864. Dreyse was knighted in 1864 for his efforts. Prussia and the other major European military nations began to look around for other and better systems than the Dreyse gun. This very quickly led to better brass cartridges and the possibility of multi-cartridge magazines. Already by the time of the German-French war in 1871, a major development had taken place, and then the first magazine rifles quickly appeared.

[@thebotrchap]

Danke für die Zusammenfassung der Geschichte der Preussische Zündnadelgewehr. Es ist aber nicht das Thema von dieser Sendung. Wir sprechen hier von das Französische Zündnadelgewehr und seinen Munition.

[@michaelmayo3127]

@@thebotrchap The difference is the same. The French version was a copy. And the system's history has a relevance, to those that an interested in the origins of firearm systems.

[@thebotrchap]

@@michaelmayo3127 The two share a common ignition principle and are single shot bolt actions. The similarity ends there. If you truly think the Chassepot is a copy, I suggest some more research is needed. It’s like saying a L-E No4 is a copy of the G98 because they are centrefire bolt-action rifles and the G98 was first.

[@michaelmayo3127]

@@thebotrchap It's like brewing beer. The recipe is the same, but the taste's slightly different. That's why the Brits seem to think that the Enfield has a better action and is overly a better rifle, than the 98, but it's just a matter of tast. Myself, well I prefer the American Lee-Enfield mod 1917 but I also like the 98.

[@liamnisbet9720]

People this amazing I love this youtuber

[@greglaroche1753]

It would be great to have a video on how you clean the rifle after shooting. Thanks for your videos on making bullets and shooting Chassepots. There aren’t many available.

[@motorgearhead]

Very interesting! I don't even own anything designed for black powder or paper cartridges but I found the concepts and methods very educational! I believe there is much to be learned from earlier technologies (firearms & even air rifles). In fact, I've started playing with paper cartridges & sabots in medium bore PCP air rifles. It's primarily for the novelty of it, as multiple sub-caliber projectiles loads have very limited range (10-15) yards. But I've found it possible to fire three .25 caliber projectiles out of a .308 air rifle and produce grouping of approximately 2" at 10-15 yards. I haven't chrono''d the 3 shot load yet and they are subsonic. But my testing of a single .25 projectile yielded 1320fps with a 27grn projectile for over 100 FPE. However, shooting proper cast bullets, the rifle is cable of nearly 3 times that power level. So again, this is a novelty. one last thought, you might be able to settle/level/compact your powder charge using an ultrasonic cleaner? just a thought... Thanks for the great video!

[@davidwoodward7020]

I was given a bayonet off one of these.It's a nice looking piece of kit!hopefully I'll get the rifle to add to it someday! :)

[@oldweapons]

Chap, this is great!!!! Thank you!!!! We have all been weighing for it!!!!

[@thebotrchap]

Boris Kheyfits Thanks, it was actually uploaded and visible through a link in the simplified Chassepot cartridge vid. It was scheduled for release at the time we got temporarily shut down and had a community strike to we were cautious about sharing reloading content.

[@oldweapons]

Do we all have chances to go on watching your channel on KZbin or you will move it somewhere else?

[@thebotrchap]

Boris Kheyfits In truth we were probably being over cautious and haven’t been bothered since so we will stay put for now. We do autopost to Full30 and a few other hosts but the viewer quota is a infinitesimal compared to YT. We never really found out why we were taken down but around that time the offending theme seemed to be reloading. It was my evaluation of the Chassepot cartridge conversion kit that apparently triggered the whole thing.

[@oldweapons]

Do we have a hope to see a complicated Dreyse cartridge build tutorial? I have a couple of Dreyse rifles and carbines, but it’s cartridge is pretty complicated and the bullet+sabot is pretty wired. Thank you for a really fantastic content!!!!

[@thebotrchap]

Boris Kheyfits Yes, most definitely. The Dreyse cartridge is actually dead easy. I’m currently compiling all the possible ways of making a sabot. I have a nice m1862 with Beck bolt to work with.

[@oldweapons]

Dreyse sabot is a roll of paper that should have a long and tricky shape to accommodate a tapered-end bullet if we go for an original one. But I think there is more sense to go for cylindrical shape for a reason sake))

[@thebotrchap]

Boris Kheyfits The easiest is using round ball on a wad stack or wooden cylinder. For the langblei bullet I have wound card sabots for which I have worked out the profile, I also have wound paper sabots (uses 3m of it) and will also try sabots made from a cellulose modeling putty once a kind channel supporter makes the pressing tools we have worked out.

[@oldweapons]

The Chap sounds great and plenty of work. I’m not as much attracted with a spherical bullet in a “modern era” breach loading gun, but langblei bullet cartridge should be of high interest to find out the real “battle performance” of the gun. “Paper sabots” and “cellulose modeling putty” sounds as a lot of work on the issue! Will show the dimensions of the loading tools set?

[@thebotrchap]

Boris Kheyfits I think it was done primarily to extend the range of the rifle. In Germany I’m told no one shoots Langblei in competitions. The sabot is so critical that accuracy will be terrible if it isn’t just right. With a ball or expanding maxiball you have repeatable results. That said I’ll do my best to get a sabot working. Ideally I’d use short cylinders of soft wood and route out a cavity to the shape of the bullet base but I don’t have that sort of tooling.

[@curiouscat8396]

Man, that was fiddly! Young woman's work.

[@blackpowderfirearmenthusia3194]

Great video, thank you.

[@donhill3rd]

Absolutely Amazing!!

[@andyh2677]

brilliant video ....24 hours to make a bag full and about 4 minutes to fire them off loving it i don't even have one of these rifles but i need to make some of these lol

[@mikerutchka1836]

Don't you have to clen the bore, after every few shots?

[@SafetyProMalta]

Curious to know how many man-minutes per round?

[@thebotrchap]

Stephen Forster Can’t quote a figure right now but with a properly divided workforce each performing a step of the process it would actually be quite efficient for the time. Aside from bullet swaging machines, no special tools or skills were necessary. They also gleaned expertise from the cigarette industry.

[@saoirse5308]

25:00 I think I can fix that fiddly bit. You need a bit of wood dowel a bit smaller than the tube form and about 6 inches long. 1)with the paper tube on the form set the base of the form on the table. (so that the point without the tape is facing up) 2)put the star on top. as you did at 24:25 but with the tube still on the form. No messing with the shape of it, just centered 3) Now use the bit of wood dowel to hold the star centered (stacked top to bottom it would be dowel, star, tube (on the upright form ), upright form, table top. 4) now push up on the paper tube and move it from the form to the dowel As it goes it will force the star into shape in one move. Because the dowel is slightly smaller there is room for the star points to fold over, but because the dowel & the tube form are almost the same size the tube can not change form. One push and all that star shaping is done, just mark the dowel so you don't push too far, flip the dowel (now with the tube on it and the star in place) over glue the last bit of the tube & seat the star into the glue. You're welcome.

[@thebotrchap]

Saoirse This vid was filmed last year, I have since developed a tool set similar to what you describe. The vid on it is in the release pipeline.

[@saoirse5308]

@@thebotrchap 👍

[@samuellee3729]

imagine if someone thought it was a cigar and they lit it.

[@petergosden1]

I have just been watching the video for the third time over the last 12 months. Rivetting. Thank you Bloke. I have a Chassepot in my collection and plan to shoot it once this virus lockdown is over (next year?). I have the Accurate mould. Before I get all my equipment together for the original cartridge I was wondering what you used to produce the star shaped discs? Is there a commercial punch? Best regards. Peter.

[@rags417]

Nice looking cigars !

[@outspokengenius]

oh this is just grand. Now I need a chassepot. What's next a Gras? or Kropatschek? I already have a M71/88 Dutch Beaumont Vitali, 1895 Mauser, 1889 Schmidt Rubin, K31, CZ52, Zastava M57, and a Luger! And thats' not counting the more modern stuff!

[@GuilhermeCargnelutti]

Hello, i have a question involving the percusion cap. In a few cartridges the percusion cap is second to the powder, in wich case it will be propelled as the bullet should, but, in this particular case, the cap comes first; as it is made out of metal, how can it leave the barrel?

[@GuilhermeCargnelutti]

well, just saw this video after i commented: kzbin.info/www/bejne/f4mTlHiOjd6XqNE. it does explains a lot. I will leave my comment in case someone else wonders the same.

[@thebotrchap]

@@GuilhermeCargnelutti Be aware that sometimes a modern percussion cap doesn’t exit the bore, the wings of modern caps are slightly wider than original caps and they drag a bit in the rifling. It doesn’t present any danger for the next shot but it doesn’t always get blown out like in the animation.

[@vitkriklan2633]

As far as I know, the chamber allows the gas to expand backwards too to blow out the rest of the paper and the cap.

[@mannys9130]

Excellent video Chap! We can always count on you two to give nice thorough tutorials. :) Have you considered using a drop tube to achieve a nice uniform settled powder charge? I don't know much about black powder cartridge making but I see drop tubes being described as important for metallic cartridge loading. I don't really know. Also, perhaps an electric sander would work well for vibrating that metal cylinder you use? You know, one of those types that you hold in your palm and would glide across a flat piece of wood. They vibrate fairly strongly as the sandpaper plate moves around, but not too crazy and I think it may work for your application. Anyway, just a thought. :)

[@thebotrchap]

mannys9130 A drop tube would help a bit but it still wouldn’t compress the powder to the required density. I think a sander has around the same frequency and amplitude as a case tumber, I tried that and powder ends up flying everywhere. Some kind of laboratory adjustable vibration plate would be ideal.

[@mannys9130]

@@thebotrchap Ah, ok. Well, perhaps you can make a new video when you figure out a solid solution. :)

[@johnfisk811]

An electric toothbrush did the job when I was making Chassepot cartridges.

[@thebotrchap]

john fisk Ooh now there’s an idea!

[@johnfisk811]

@@thebotrchap High frequency and low amplitude. As you would expect as it is to go into your mouth where a large amplitude is less than desirable......

[@roadpanzir]

First class work!

[@messmeister92]

This is one of those uploads KZbin is going to start randomly suggesting to everyone in 10 years lol

[@ROTHGLUT]

Thanks, very interesting. A video on the rifle would be nice too. Also nice scissors. Seem to be from the Leftorium, got the same...

[@thebotrchap]

Rothglut's Roger Victorinox from the local haberdashery.

[@tjo4087]

I think murphys muskets has been renamed "the natural man". Very good content here and there

[@Jagdtyger2A]

Have you ever tried using 209 type shotgun primers and pelletized black powder substitutes?? Seems to me that they should work

[@Jagdtyger2A]

I know this may not be historically accurate, but have you thought about using black powder pellets to make the charge? Also, what is the length and diameter of the finished powder load? I am working on a modification/design to have a machinist convert an inline black powder rifle into a needle fire rifle for my old lady. I would do the work myself except macular degeneration has progressed too much for my eyes to do the job. So I am limited to paper designs and letting someone else do the machining :(

[@blairroth1812]

Excellent

[@RolandsSelis]

You mentioned the 46-365C mould, what were the mesuurements you gave them please ?

[@chestertnted]

Very interesting.

[@NoahReber]

I recently got an old Stutzer m1851 and I'm currently working on refurbishing it. It's my first muzzleloader, so I got a lot of questions. First, do you guys have an idea where I can find a Range where I can shot those? I live in Frutigen Be. Second, where I can get a bullet mold for casting? Btw keep up the good work on the videos they are as entertaining as educational it's a pleasure to watch. Thank you in advance

[@BlokeontheRange]

There's a muzzleloading club in Steffisburg that's probably nearest to you :)

[@thebotrchap]

We are practically neighbours then! As Bloke says, the club in Steffisburg is the closest but their range hours are geared towards retired people unless they have recently modernised. I have to go up to Siselen for more sensible range hours. For bullets, no one that I know of produces the compression bullet. I had it done by a custom mould maker in the US (now retired). Hensel GmbH make a Büholzer mould and a number of maxi-ball moulds that would probably work.

[@BlokeontheRange]

40-cal round ball will also work paper patched

[@NoahReber]

The Chap thank you for the quick response, sad that nobody makes moldes for this geat rifle anymore.

[@AdamPerkinsPhD]

Thanks for a great video.

[@snook1249]

Bloody brilliant 😎

[@worldtraveler930]

Have you given any thoughts about nitrateing the paper and silk?

[@thebotrchap]

World Traveler Forcing the cartridge to combust causes more fouling. Most of the cartridge is supposed to be blown out unburned.

[@worldtraveler930]

@@thebotrchap interesting, I was thinking that chard cartridge would cause fouling and possibly start fires down range from burning bits of cartridge. These concepts might make a cracking good comparison video?

[@thebotrchap]

World Traveler It has been tried extensively by French shooters. The best results in terms of continuous fire have been achieved by doing the exact opposite, namely by soaking the cartridge paper in fire retardant.

[@worldtraveler930]

@@thebotrchap Interesting, today is a day of learning, so what happens to the rubber and cap? Do they exit the barrel like the wading from a shotgun or are they left behind and have to be removed like the shell casing from a shotgun?

[@thebotrchap]

World Traveler Everything gets blown out. The bolt face has an annular recess just like the Dreyse, which gives the combustion gases space to swirl and evacuate debris. The idea is that the sudden pressure drop as the bullet leaves the barrel sucks everything out. The flat face of the Beck converted Dreyse bolt however can result in cartridge bases remaining stuck after firing.

[@Kirkee7]

Very interesting . I wish you had put your manufacturing skills to the test .

[@andrewfrancis3591]

You get a Blue Peter Badge for that. Hope you asked first before using mummy's sharp scissors. Great vid.

[@thebotrchap]

Andrew Francis I have my own pair because I’m a leftie 😇

[@betaich]

@@thebotrchap why is it that nearly all really good firearms guys on KZbin are lefties?

[@thebotrchap]

betaich We are shunned, discriminated against and persecuted in the real world so we have to retreat to cyberspace 😣 😉

[@michaelrogers1036]

@@betaich I have pondered the same. Though Chap and Gun Jesus are the only two I can think of right now. Mind is a bit foggy this morning.

[@richardanderson2742]

Just a note, the center fire .577 Snider Brit cartridge went into full scale production in 1866 to equip the whole of the British empire, shooting a .577 bullet in front of 70 grains of FFg.

[@thebotrchap]

Agreed but there’s a difference between something just entering production and being tried and tested through actual field use. As I mentioned, the French were perfectly aware of CF metallic cartridges, the Pauly centrefire cartridge rifle had even been presented to the French arms committee in 1813 (metallic base with card body like the early .577). In 1865-66 they however decided to go with what they were more comfortable with and had been tested in combat by the most immediate threat aka the Prussians. An unfortunate decision with the benefit of hindsight but there we go.

[@FLVCTVAT_NEC_MERGITVR]

J'aimerais voir ces épisodes en français aussi! Belle vidéo.

[@Trumplican]

18:34 safety is important but some people get carried away what you do with the primers looks perfectly safe and even if it did go off (drilling like that will not set it off though) it's just a percussion cap it's not like you are drilling it while it's on a loaded rifle lol

[@thebotrchap]

Agreed, popping an unconstrained percussion primer is just like a big cap gun cap going off. I’ve done it many times when experimenting with their sensitivity. They need the fire channel of a nipple to concentrate the heat, otherwise you just get a bang and a small puff of moderate heat. Modern primers are however on a different power level and are extremely dangerous should they go off, even unconstrained.

[@amcconnell6730]

Rather than use the hammer to vibrate the powder, place the end of a metal (or wood, I suppose) rule under the powder packing block, with the other end projecting over the edge of the table, and "strum" the free end of the rule to vibrate the container.

[@chomocharlie3997]

11:11, "Paper does beat scissors in the end." Hear! Hear!

[@nejiniisan1265]

Excellent. But why don't you glue the silk all around the cartridge?

[@thebotrchap]

Neji Niisan Because I’m reproducing the cartridge followings period instructions and it says to glue the overlap only.

[@nejiniisan1265]

@@thebotrchap, thanks. I wonder if you glue all around it would maker the cartridge stiffer. Wonderful cartridges, btw.

[@thebotrchap]

Neji Niisan Thanks. I think there was a delicate balance at play. It they made the cartridge too rigid, it would hinder the swirling of the debris to clear the chamber. None of the big four needle rifle types have rigid cartridge walls. I have tested these cartridges since and they all ignite just fine, even when slamming the bolt into them when forcing them in a dirty chamber. The compressed powder provides all the column strength necessary. The only thing I will change will be to use a thicker latex seal at the base as I kept getting little bits of seal being blown into the needle channel of the bolt head making recocking very stiff.

[@nejiniisan1265]

@@thebotrchap, thanks a lot for the explanations! I had never seen a needle rifle before, I found it to be very nice.

[@linkbond08]

I though reloading 30.06 with a Lee Classic loader took a long time, I was wrong... This takes a long time. This is 30 minutes per round holy smokes!!

[@BlokeontheRange]

You don't have to explain to camera what you're doing for every round ;) It's a number of minutes per round, certainly, but if you batch the operations it goes much quicker.

[@Jagdtyger2A]

Have you considered using nitrated cartridge paper seales with nitrocellulose based fingernail polish as water proofing? If it works, and it should, it would make a stronger stiffer water proof cartridge for shooting in all weather and climates. what do you think?

[@thebotrchap]

No, but I’m strictly adhering to the traditional method. By all means try it out.

[@felixthecat265]

I think a drop tube would be a more consistent way of compacting the charge.. Wellying the side of the die clearly works, but is hardly reproduceable.. ?

[@pikeywyatt]

so much better than blue peter. thanks

[@johnstacy7902]

How hard would it be to make a cardboard tube and shotgun primers. ALos a hollow base bullet? still I really enjoyed the video

[@thebotrchap]

John Stacy In theory, not too difficult, however shotgun primers are fairly bulky and there is a high chance that a spent primer would wedge itself in the bore. There is a CF conversion kit available though which has a replacement bolt head and firing pin.

[@shermonruler]

didn't you guys get in trouble for a video on remaking old ammo?

[@BlokeontheRange]

Yup, but the bots seem to have softened in the meantime so we're taking the risk and being careful with our descriptions etc.

[@ChodaStanks]

Which one, 2F or 3F is better for the Chassepot?

[@thebotrchap]

Just My Name Doesn’t really make any difference.

[@EdAtoZ]

Question, what happens to the primer ? Does it exit out the barrel ?

[@BlokeontheRange]

Yes. There's a donut-shaped void in the chamber behind the seated cartridge, so you end up with pressure behind the primer which forces it out the front.

[@EdAtoZ]

@@BlokeontheRange With my muzzle loaders, when I use patch and ball I can find the patch after firing. Does the same thing happen with the paper ?

[@BlokeontheRange]

@@EdAtoZ Confetti

[@thebotrchap]

@@EdAtoZ There is always a bit of residue in the chamber which will eventually build up enough to hamper chambering a cartridge.

[@EdAtoZ]

@@thebotrchap Maybe change the heavy and waxed paper, for something better, Flashpaper ! That way you have no residue and it guaranties ignition in or out of the gun ! (just joking) Do you have videos on French muzzle loader carriages ?

[@Jean-FrancoisPREVOT]

Je mets un peu de pulvérin dans l'amorce avant de coller la rondelle, cela améliore l'inflammation de la poudre. Merci pour tes videos.

[@liamclarke1196]

Hi bloke I have a Chassepot/gras farm gun I need some spear parts I can't find any for sale in the UK do u know where I can find someone who sells them cheers and nice vid

[@thebotrchap]

liam clarke If you can work or translate in French then NaturaBuy is your best bet.

[@liamclarke1196]

@@thebotrchap cheers mate thank you

[@General.Longstreet]

I believe women and children were employed to make paper cartridges as they have more nimble delicate fingers.

[@thebotrchap]

Colonel Ed Yes indeed.

[@jacqueslemiere]

very good french pronunciation.

[@BlokeontheRange]

I'd be worried if it wasn't, cos he is French ;)

[@jacqueslemiere]

@@BlokeontheRange i am french too i am not able to speak that well

[@kpadmirer]

I can just see some poilus sitting around a campfire making a few thousands of these things. Zut alors!

[@curtwuollet2912]

And we complain about the cost per shot today. Can you imagine what these would cost today done by hand?

[@konradwidget6956]

Will there be a French version? I was joking.

[@bikerdave19148]

I'm betting the debris left over would be a lot less if you nitrated the paper first, maybe use something like coffee filter paper

[@thebotrchap]

The original cartridge was not nitrated so neither is this one since aim here is to reproduce the original pattern. I made some nitrated ones years ago and there was no significant improvement in chamber fouling. The thick bubble tea straw versions as shown on our Utreon channel produce the least fouling of all.

[@randyhavard6084]

Ian from forgotten weapons says it best "the French copy no one, and no one copies the French"

[@presidentlouis-napoleonbon8889]

How would those be made in factories? During the real war?

[@BlokeontheRange]

By people sitting at tables doing one or 2 operations each.

[@thebotrchap]

Like Bloke said, almost every step was performed by a different person so production was quite high and didn’t require complex machinery or highly trained workers. Period photographs often show women and children at work.

[@judofry]

Today he is making weird combustible mummy fingers

[@TheWozWizard]

It was obsolete even before it was adopted!

[@Kevinkapon]

The .41 Swiss was about equal in power to the Chassepot, actually.

[@JenniferinIllinois]

Hmm, so why did the self contained metallic cartridge become a thing? Oh right, I just watched the video. Hehehe... Definitely a lot of work to make one paper cartridge.

[@kirkstinson7316]

No mention of the fact that this ammo is based on the Drieser needle gun ammo that predates it by (I think) 15 years?

[@thebotrchap]

kirk stinson The Dreyse predates it by 25 years but the ammunition has little in common aside from the fact that it has a bullet and powder. The Chassepot cartridge is basically a modern CF cartridge with a paper case. The Dreyse has a sub caliber bullet in a sabot with the primer at the base of the sabot ahead of the primer. Very different beast indeed!

[@BlokeontheRange]

Chassepot cartriged are waaaay more advanced than Dreyse ones :)

[@DarthTrazyn]

Prussia was supposed to have had one of the most powerful militaries of the late 1800s, was that due to the use of the Dreyse system? or were there other factors in play that made them so powerful? beyond using the dreyse system...

[@thebotrchap]

Braidborn The Dreyse was a factor up to a point but as was very efficient logistics and state of the art artillery with well tried and tested tactics to put it to good use. The Prussian states had been warring on and off for half a century internally in the unification wars an externally with Denmark and Austria.

[@merlemorrison482]

makes me wonder how they ever managed to mass produce these!!!

[@thebotrchap]

Merle Morrison Quite easily, that was kind of the point. Labour was cheap back then. You could train an unskilled workforce to perform small incremental steps of the loading process, a bit like a precursor of a chain production. One group rolls tubes, another applies the bases and primers, another fills with powder etc.

[@ralphwatten2426]

I wonder if soldiers would be doing this on bivouac during their hours of boredom.

[@BlokeontheRange]

Nope. Factory-made. Too complicated and fiddly and function-critical to be soldier-made.

[@blancsteve4819]

Seems like a lot of work for some soppy solder to let them get wet in the field.

[@thebotrchap]

Blank Steve They were packaged in waterproofed card boxes of 9 rounds

[@doomsayer7937]

Talk about a pain in the ass. It would take 6 months to get a box of shells. And I load some odd cartridges.

[@Landrew0]

It's hard if you haven't rehearsed or made notes.

[@vanoknt]

i heard somewhere that ATF ruled that this a full semi automatic machine gun. and it is illegal to buy it in CA.

[@wastedangelematis]

Cartridge looks like cuban cigar, Or worse... XD

[@rikuurufu5534]

That's way more than half a milimeter, good sir.

[@CheshireTomcat68]

Oops, your adverts have disappeared from earlier!

[@CheshireTomcat68]

Tried again, got 2 ads! I like how you say tightening the string is THE fiddly bit!

[@thebotrchap]

CheshireTomcat68 It’s the bit that requires the most dexterity, the rest just requires a patient methodical approach.

[@skorpius752]

Ever hear of friction? Oh, well, when you are picking pieces of brass out of your body, you'll learn. Man, if you had any idea how bad that hurts, you wouldn't be drilling your primers. If you continue to use this method, build a jig so that if the cap ignites, it cannot project shrapnel into your body. An alternative would be to cut the sides of the cap with diagonal cutters, which is arguably safer. At least that is easy to shield. For settling your powder, you could try an ultrasonic cleaner. But I would do a test with a primer to make sure it will not set them off... Even in the 1800s, when safety was nonexistent, they were smart enough not to compress powder onto a primer!

[@thebotrchap]

Friction? Nope sorry never heard of it 🙄 I did say it would scare some people, hence you should assume I’m very well aware of the danger. The amplitude of my ultrasonic cleaner is too great, powder sprays everywhere.

[@skorpius752]

@@thebotrchap So get a Hitachi vibrator and use that. You might want to use it on yourself whilst at it. You seem like you could use it. As for the safety issue, I don't think you did due diligence explaining the risk for the benefit of the not so clever people who are getting ideas from you. "Because the Russians did it" is never a smart rationale for doing anything!

[@thebotrchap]

Skorpius has a sting in his tail 😏Sorry but I was brought up in a world were common sense was paramount. If people need obviously dangerous situations explained in large friendly letters then they should remain in their cosy bubble wrap cocoons and stay away from pointy things and loud noises. Obviously the Russians would have produced the holes in the priming cup blank before forming and filling with compound, it’s common sense. I’m drilling parallel to the compound, 5mm above it with a pin drill at 2 rpm with the compound being covered as standard with a paper foil. Btw these brass cups do not explode then set off unconstrained, they just pop with a puff of smoke like a toy cap (yes I have tried it).

[@curiouscat8396]

If the primer was in the base, then why was the needle so long!? Wot, was it a friction primer, like in der German potato masher grenade? Oh, no. It was put in backwards, and the needle had to puncture the front!?

[@BlokeontheRange]

Needs to be up there to get reliably blown out of the barrel

[@thebotrchap]

The primer is basically a backwards percussion cap in the base. The needle goes through the base of the cartridge just far enough to strike the base of the cap so about 10mm from the bolt face. Yes, ignition is by the friction caused by the needle punching through the compound.

[@curiouscat8396]

@@BlokeontheRange Wasn't that the job of the air pocket? I meant why does the needle protrude so much? Oh, I see: It pushes the primer forwards!? U're right: The charge isn't hot enough, to melt it! I must watch it firing in slo-mo, to try to see what comes out?

[@curiouscat8396]

@@thebotrchap 10mm U reckon? That looked to me to be much longer. Must take another look.

[@curiouscat8396]

@@thebotrchap U are right: I just saw an image of a fully assembled bolt and the needle protrudes at most 10mm!

[@markboland2545]

There's gotta be a faster more economical method...ie the star paper etc

[@thebotrchap]

There are many ways to make simpler functional cartridges. I’ve even shown one in another vid. That wasn’t the point of this vid though. This was about recreating a faithful reproduction of the original cartridge.

[@RUSTYCHEVYTRUCK]

Ian McCollum wants to know your location

[@GrumpyGenXGramps]

Looks like you are shooting a poorly rolled cigar! LOL