Chassepot Versus Dreyse, The Mad Minute Grudge Match

[@pminoregon9072]

The birds never stopped singing. I guess they have adapted to decades of loud bangs.

[@myparceltape1169]

The bird is singing, "Can't hit me".

[@Treblaine]

​@@myparceltape1169 French Pigeon: "What are swiss humans like?" Swiss Dove: "Useless shots. You could sit in a tree only a flap away from them and they can shoot all day and never hit you."

[@knightman4574]

They have indeed 😉🍷 in-fact they even like the sound of two rifles.

[@noahway13]

I know this thread is from pre-war, but I have noticed the same thing in the Ukraine conflict-- birds singing with actual danger and random explosions in a dystopian hellscape. I guess we need to learn to enjoy as much as we can in our everyday environment. Most of us have it so good, and we get bent out of shape on little things like an opinion somebody makes in the comment section -- or a statement of from an opposing political figure.

[@genericpersonx333]

Well, if nothing else, we can see how a single division of the French Army could be shooting off more cartridges in a single day than the French nation was making (something around 314,000), and that was despite France having more and bigger military munitions factories than most anyone on the continent.

[@coryhall7074]

It's been a truism since the invention of projectile weaponry that soldiers in true oh shit moments can run through ammunition much faster than was even thought possible.

[@TchaikovskyFDR]

The beauty of the Chassepot was the deliberate adoption of paper cartridges because they knew the brass industry was not up to par in terms of production, compared to its tobacco industry which could churn out paper cartridges on a much higher frequency.

[@peteranderson037]

@@TchaikovskyFDR I often wondered if cost and manufacturing capacity had anything to do with the military adoption of paper cartridges before brass. Even though brass ammunition has become a standard thing in modern armies, you still see many of them policing up their spent brass at the end of a range day for reloading.

[@88porpoise]

@@peteranderson037 it absolutely would have played a role. We think of a drawn brass case as a pretty trivial thing to manufacture, but in the mid 19th century it was a big deal to produce in large numbers. Meanwhile paper cartridges had long established production going to at least the 18th century. That is also why the whole idea of militaries not adopting breach loaders / repeaters because the soldiers would fire "too quickly" comes from. Not because armies didn't want soldiers to shoot a lot, but countries couldn't supply enough cartridges for the hem to fire at a reasonable rate.

[@quentintin1]

@@88porpoise early europan military brass cartridges would have been rolled (see early martini cases)

[@gussie88bunny]

Mr Chap, that was concise, informed and entertaining. Thanks very much, Gus.

[@petrijuhola4193]

Sehr geehrter Herr Bloke. Diesmal haben Sie mir "Gänsenhaut" und Freudentränen in meine Augen gebracht mit Ihrem Waffenhistorischen Kulturtat. Estklassiges Video, alles gut zu sehen, prima Leucht. Besser kann es niemand machen. Mein Danke und allerherzlichsten Glueckwuensch aus Finnland!

[@thebotrchap]

Vielen Dank!🙂

[@gatlingbert]

Very good comparison. The French infantryman had a great advantage when against the Dreyse.

[@jeffreygao3956]

If they were so good, why didn't they win? Checkmate Bonapartists!

[@REXOB9]

Fascinating to see these historic guns in action. Thanks for doing this!

[@run68bone]

Thank you so much for this, I'm a HS teacher in the US. I'll be showing parts of this video to my class as we compare the technology of the two sides in the Franco-Prussian War. Great job.

[@thebotrchap]

Very glad to be of service! I also have a vid on making original Chassepot ammunition if you wish to show how laborious it was.

[@gabemando7823]

Always good to check if your rubber is leaking

[@myparceltape1169]

I am surprised that it lasted more than one shot. You can see tyre tracks on the road where there was a risky manoeuvre and that is from strong heat treated rubber. Still, machining steel to tolerance might have been too difficult then.

[@ЖигимонтАвгуст]

​@@myparceltape1169герметичность в современном оружии обеспечивается латунной гильзой, а не допусками стали.

[@ЖигимонтАвгуст]

​@@myparceltape1169резиновый клапан сделан из натурального каучука и дымный порох даёт меньше температуры

[@onpsxmember]

Just the right amount of information for this comparison while still having the deep dive available for each rifle. Bravo! The only thing I'd add is to have the links for the rifles shown either in the video when mentioned, at the end or as links in the description. What I found as the best visual option is to post them in form of a pinned comment. Can't wait to see the Finnish Brutality footage. Thank you for taking part in this craze. Btw...is there cheese from Finland you could test?

[@emoryzakin2576]

Too cool to see I’m action finally. I’ve really fallen in love with these older rifles of yours. Beautiful examples too btw!

[@eVVigilance]

I need a Dreyse. But, I was able to find a copy of Das Zundnadelgewehr, (almost as hard to find!) so at least I know what to look for.

[@stevep5408]

Well done Chap. Informative and interesting!

[@presidentlouis-napoleonbon8889]

I was living for this moment.

[@sbamshooting]

Very good work my friend!!! Much envy for that M62!

[@peterconnan5631]

Thanks. I can see that a lot of effort goes into these!

[@alifr4088]

Wow that beck update to the dreyse bolt really did it's job well preventing any gas to escape from the breech!

[@danieltaylor5231]

Is it foggy in Switzerland today? No its just The Chap doing a black powder mad minute.

[@thebotrchap]

Oops 😅

[@awfultruth6216]

As a history guy who is also into firearms, let mr thank for this video. Very interesting content.

[@mikehoare6093]

dreyse : "will you be waiting for me, or will you run again?" chassepot : "aurevoir......"

[@1982rrose]

More learning👍 thank you.

[@JenniferinIllinois]

Welcome to this edition of the Mad Minute: Franco-Prussian War Edition. ;)

[@PenDragonsPig]

The Johnny Frenchman version is longer- that doesn’t surprise me🇬🇧😂🇬🇧🤣🇬🇧😹

[@LadyAnuB]

So the Prussians had their long arm showed up by the French and that got them to adopt the 1871 Mauser. Too bad the French had so many other army deficiencies that were shown up by the Prussian/German army.

[@dj1NM3]

The Dreyse Needle Gun only lasted for 30 years in service, before being replaced by the 1871 Mauser. It must have been a really awful infantry weapon compared to what other countries had, to have been discarded so quickly. ;-)

[@stevep5408]

@@dj1NM3 right on the cusp of so many advances in infantry arms. King of the battlefield for a short period of time made up by for training, espre de corps, logistics and staff work.

[@dj1NM3]

@@stevep5408 Three decades of use is not exactly "a short period", I'm pretty sure you missed ;-) to indicate sarcasm.

[@rags417]

@@dj1NM3 /sarcasm

[@verycreativ233]

Kind of . it's more that prussians used their 30 year old rifle (as the subsequent updates to the 1841 pattern were only in materials so switching from iron barrels to steel etc) and realised that they didn't manage to keep the rifle a secret for 30 years. Should also be noted that in 1869 the prussians adopted a update system (part of wich chap shows of as the pattern of bolt he uses would e used for the update aswell) that would give the dreyse the same capabilities as the chasspot . So wierdly enough Bismarck didn't use the first opportunity he got to get the french to declare war on the north german federation and waited for another inevitable opportunity then the french propably wouldn't have shown up the prussian longarm as they would be relatively equal. Not that that would've changed anything but still interesting

[@simonjones6128]

Nice chappie always interesting

[@davepeters4955]

Really good comparison video.

[@ChodaStanks]

best video ever for these two rifles!

[@anthonyioane4438]

Thank you, a nice supplement to this week's Glory and Defeat program.

[@NigelRumpstead]

Excellent video, thank you very much.

[@ysmaliwr]

Excellent video thanks for doing this. This backs up information provided in the videos of Glory and Defeat from Real Time History. The video you have done is a fantastic representation of the use of the rifles in the Franco-Prussian. Have you guys been watching the Glory and Defeat series?

[@thebotrchap]

I have indeed

[@657449]

Great series.

[@Chiller01]

Very interesting comparison.

[@michaelathens953]

That Dreyse really is a very handsome rifle.

[@thebotrchap]

Combine wood, iron and brass and you have a fine rifle. The Chassepot cavalry rifles are sexy AF.

[@ClassicFormulaOne1]

Hi Bloke! I am shooting a Chassepot as well and I am experimenting how to lower the fouling in the chamber and bolt mechanism. Question: is there any way preventing fouling getting pass the needle into the bolt and spring? I've noticed it gets dirty there as well. I know you have tried a piece of rubber in your earlier cartridges but they got stuck in your bolt.

[@thebotrchap]

Not really, it’s one of the weaknessesof the system. There is an intermediate needle guide in the middle of the bolt body (noix) which should also limit fouling into the spring area but these wear out with time and are difficult to get out and replace. Since using the bubble tea cartridge though the fouling issue has largely gone, at least for casual range use.

[@ClassicFormulaOne1]

@@thebotrchap thanks Chap for your confirmation. I'm using the bubble tea straw method as well only recently. Going to try it out some more and also I received 1 litre of flame retardant fluid which I will be using on de sides of the cartridge. Less burnt paper residu means less chambering problems.. I hope ☺️

[@craigwoodward7638]

The Chassepot is so much better in everyway than the Dreyse. No wonder the Prussians lost.. oh wait..

[@thebotrchap]

Oh wait, I said words to that effect in the vid 😉 Victory was achieved with excellent artillery, railway logistics and tried and tested decentralized command. Small arms superiority is very seldom a war winner since the standard adoption of firearms..

[@borkwoof696]

Get a load of this guy🤦‍♂️

[@leadshark9461]

@@thebotrchap The last sentence is very important here. I think people focus too much on the arms instead of the logistics and tactics. Especially in discussions about the Franco-Prussian war (and the Austro-Prussian war to an extent). France might have had the better rifles, but everything else was worse and in many cases chaotic.

[@TheGrenadier97]

The germans won for things in which the french were too stupid. The prussians praised and feared the Chassepot. Wawro mentions that Moltke told an attaché to tone down his praises for the french rifle in order to not upset the King.

[@TheGrenadier97]

The Dreyse looks like a futurized (?) musket while the Chassepot has a somehow more refined, sportive look to it. Both interesting steps before the generalization of bolt actions and metallic cartridges.

[@antongrahn1499]

Bolt action rifle mark 1, truly. Thank you for the video! What would these rifles have replaced at the time of thier adoption?

[@thebotrchap]

For the French it would have been an assortment of 18mm percussion rifled muskets, short rifles, carbines and musketoons. For the Prussians they effectively skipped the rifled musket stage back in the late 1830s and when straight from percussion smoothbores to the Dreyse. Other German states only adopted the Dreyse later so also went through the percussion rifle or even percussion breechloader stage.

[@wackyswacky1374]

If I was given a a choice between these two rifles, I would be tempted to choose the Dreyse just because it seems much easier to maintain than the Chassepot. Fouling is less of an issue, there is no rubber seal that will deteriorate and need to be replaced, and the needle can be replaced as easy as unscrewing it from the back and sticking another one in there. The Chassepot has got the range, but that's about it.

[@khester7397]

In addition to the superior range, the Chassepot is smoother to operate, and the needle is more durable.

[@Fuerwahrhalunke]

@@khester7397 From what I saw watching this movie, operation looked much smoother on the Dreyse.

[@Haoan1124]

The Dreyse's larger bore allows less residue build up and fouling than the Chassepot. The Chassepot has a faster fire rate, yet, French soldiers struggled to manage the recoil and turned to playing the butt of the rifle at their foot when shooting, almost as a mortar style type of firearm, lowering accuracy immensely.

[@jamesbrisendine]

Thats one of the greatest t-shirts ever.

[@thebotrchap]

It’s over 10 years old, washed countless times and still glows in the dark!

[@gunhojput]

Awesome loved it i have always been interested in these two firearms, thanks bloke subscibed for more. love to all.

[@jackmehoff1840]

great video

[@Simon_Nonymous]

Watched you in French first for a change - now to find out if you actually said what I thought you said!

[@thebotrchap]

and did I?

[@Simon_Nonymous]

@@thebotrchap I think so yes! There were no hovercrafts full of eels or anything of that nature.

[@M.M.83-U]

Nice video. A clear difference.

[@3eightiesopinion524]

Very nice rifles! That ammo must be fun to make! Glad you are able to make some cartridges.

[@dantherpghero2885]

Alright you Primitive Screwheads, listen up! You see this? This... is my BOOMSTICK! The twelve-gauge double-barreled Remington. S-Mart's top of the line. You can find this in the sporting goods department. That's right, this sweet baby was made in Grand Rapids, Michigan. Retails for about a hundred and nine, ninety five. It's got a walnut stock, cobalt blue steel, and a hair trigger. That's right. Shop smart. Shop S-Mart. You got that? Ash Williams. (Army of Darkness 1992).

[@yo388]

That’s just absurd. I love it!

[@con6lex]

Thanks for a great video. Making those cartridges must be hard.

[@eVVigilance]

Also interesting to see the difficulty recocking after several rounds. My Chassepot does the same thing. Do you run an internal washer/gasket behind the tophat, where the needle passes? I have read that some have found that to mitigate the grittiness, but I have not tried it yet.

[@thebotrchap]

I didn’t because that would be cheating 😉 Interesting to note that the Dreyse does have the equivalent. The needle carrier has a recess for a leather gasket.

[@omegalis]

Would love to see proper slowmo of the round exiting the Dreyse.

[@kingerikthegreatest.ofall.7860]

Excellent as usual.

[@Bonnie65510]

Very good comparison ! Thanks for the video :-)

[@johnfisk811]

Thank you for the match. Does your Chassepot have a rubber disk that reduces the powder fouling flow back up the needle channel?

[@thebotrchap]

No, the worse fouling is actually within the narrowest part of the head where you can’t put a gasket in.

[@CheshireTomcat68]

I think I'd rather have a slower firing weapon that keeps on going, rather than a quicker one that jams up!

[@thebotrchap]

Well in both cases this mode of fire is rather artificial but the fouling question still stands in the case of a long exchange of fire, rapid or not. The superiority comes rather from the ability to hit at ranges which are impossible to the opponent. You can then cooly lay donw precise fire and have time to deal with fouling should it occur.

[@CheshireTomcat68]

@@thebotrchap Yeah, I guess accuracy takes precedent, updates to bolt actions improved reliability fairly quickly too. Fair point.

[@verycreativ233]

thats what the austrians thought aswell and then they got assfucked by their cousins in their war over who unifies germany.

[@dbmail545]

Chappie needs his own channel 😀

[@TurboDieselWeasel1]

I'd love to see how a classic lever action rifle would do in a mad minute scenario. The fast-to-shoot vs. slow-to-reload i think would make this interesting!

[@thebotrchap]

I recommend going to InRange. Karl and Ian did a short series on why tube fed lever actions never really made a dent as universal service rifles (although it was a very very close call in Switzerland as I tell in Vetterli part 1)

[@Kaboomf]

Most lever actions can be used as quite rapid single shots when the magazine is empty, so you get however many are in the mag at a high rate then speed comparable to a good single shot until your cartridge pouch is empty as well.

[@strydyrhellzrydyr1345]

Wow.. odd.. never seen that before... The Dreyse.. or whatever it's called.. interesting

[@SootHead]

Enjoyed that. Given your location, it might not be feasible but I'll put in a vote for a trapdoor Springfield

[@thebotrchap]

My hope is to convince Karl of Inrange to do it since A) he has one and B) he is far more operator with it than I could ever hope to be 🤣

[@SootHead]

@@thebotrchap Karl! Oh Karl! Still, if you have one and the accompanying .45-70 ammo, it would be fun to learn the rifle, would it not?

[@robertoservadei4766]

Excelldnt video! Could you please name the channels with reloading contents?

[@thebotrchap]

Paper Cartridges - Making Dreyse sabots SBAM - Making RB Dreyse cartridges BotR - Original and quick Chassepot cartridges although the cartridges I am using in this vid are a further evolution that I will publish elsewhere at some point.

[@mikepette4422]

!!! well this is one we gotta see !!!

[@brianthomson6896]

HI Chappy, Excellent video and very informative. I wonder what the opposing forces knew about their opponents weapons way back in the Era that these rifles were being used?

[@thebotrchap]

They did, espionage was just a prevalent then as today.

[@hendriktonisson2915]

Interesting stuff! Any chance You'll do a video about the AA-52?

[@thebotrchap]

All in good time!

[@hendriktonisson2915]

@@thebotrchap Good!

[@robertl6196]

Very interesting. Slightly fiddly rifles, but much better than any muzzleloader. How about a mad minute with a Trapdoor Springfield?

[@strydyrhellzrydyr1345]

Wow.. I don't know the other one either... With that long piece sticking out infront of the bolt into the chamber area

[@jeffreygao3956]

Nice although weapons are a small part of battlefield, much less war, outcomes. It was really Prussia's superior organization, military discipline, leadership, and the better ability to gain allies. Not helping was that the French troops thought they were invincible.

[@thebotrchap]

I’m guessing you didn’t watch at least until 13:38 😜

[@jeffreygao3956]

@@thebotrchap Oh...

[@pmgn8444]

Bah! France! Prussia! Chassepot! Dreyse! Bah! But the important question is: what rifle were the troops from the Kingdom of Saxony using in 1870? Great video Chap! Interesting to see you confirm what I have otherwise heard. (Full disclosure: it appears that my Grandfather became a US citizen to avoid service in the Imperial Germany Army.)

[@jdzencelowcz]

I think I'd pick the more robust Dreyse with round ball cartridges.

[@TheGrenadier97]

The Chassepot was better in every aspect. The Dreyse had a hard time even against the muzzleloader Podewills of the bavarians in 1866, which was slower but fired much better at ranges where the Dreyse was useless: above 300 metres.

[@brianpencall4882]

Obviously you should do a Mad-Two-Minute.

[@dvinson1029]

my only issue is that it appeared that you took more time to aim with the dreyse, though I know its inferior simply based on tech. My other issue would be the modification of cartridges. I know you have to make your own but I have a feeling that carboard tube slides a lot better into the breach than the original tied paper.

[@Jagdtyger2A]

Imagine the outcome of the Civil War if either side had used a Chassepot type needle rifle

[@derekp2674]

Thanks Chap, that was really interesting to see. If the Chassepot primer is at the back if the paper cartridge, what happens to it on firing?

[@thebotrchap]

It gets blown out with the rest. There is an annular space behind the cartridge to swirl the gases.

[@derekp2674]

@@thebotrchap Thanks Chap. That sounds like a an elegant design.

[@dj1NM3]

I would hazard a cautious guess that if Chassepot Rifles historically jammed-up, just like your example after such a small number of shots, then that could have swayed the outcome of infantry battles during the Franco-Prussian War. The French probably did kind-of "read over the shoulder" of the Prussians when designing their "kleine feine Mordwaffe", being designed and adopted 25 years after the Dreyse Needle Gun.

[@EpicThe112]

Had both rifles ended up in the American Civil War the war on the side of Jefferson Davis Robert E. Lee the Confederacy they would have an advantage over the Union soldier is that when entrenched a Confederate can simply reload the bolt action rifle in prone position unlike their Union Equivalent which is using a rifle musket Which must stand up and reload it in a slow process

[@HaNsWiDjAjA]

If anyone was gonna adopt a technologically advanced, expensive rifle it would be the Union Army, not Confederate. And the Union did adopt many of them for their cavalry, like the Sharps and the Spencer.

[@khester7397]

I'm very curious as to the accuracy of the Chassepot. Much information I find seems to suggest the primary advantage over the Dryse is the extended range rather than tighter shot groups. What sort of accuracy have you been able to achieve with the Chassepot?

[@thebotrchap]

Extended range is useless unless you can be reasonably accurate 😉 I’ve only taken it out to 100m and it holds the 9-10 ring fine. I’d like to take it further but unlikely to happen

[@gbkon34]

The chassepot had problems when it was hot, the rubber seal wore out quickly and the SAS system became increasingly difficult to operate. The original cartridge was more unstable and sensitive to moisture. It also didn't burn as well and the remaining material had to be funneled out first. In addition, the Dryse could be dismantled without tools and changing the needle was quick and easy to do from the outside. This was more complicated with the Chassepot.

[@thebotrchap]

The original chassepot cartridge was never intended to be consumed, debris was sucked out behind the bullet in the same way as the Dreyse, hence why they both have a swirl chamber around the needle guide on the bolt. The needle is harder to get to in the chassepot because it is far more unlikely to break since it is thicker and is less exposed when firing than a Dreyse needle. Even then, Dreyse needles are not as delicate as people think. I have not yet broken one in over ten years of needle firing.

[@thomaszhang3101]

How serious is the Chesspot’s fouling? We’re there historic records of that being a terrible trait during battle?

[@laurentdevaux5617]

There were, and there were also reports saying soldiers sometimes had to piss in the chamber to remove fouling...

[@cheesenoodles8316]

Excellent.

[@normalcitizen_1]

Swedish infantry musket VS any other European infantry musket is my vote

[@thebotrchap]

Flintlock? Absolutely

[@jordanezell5132]

Could they have adapted to fire metallic cartridges?

[@thebotrchap]

Which one? The Chassepot was converted to metallic cartridge in the form of the 1866-74 rifle alongside the 1874 Gras rifle, the Dreyse was replaced with the 1871 Mauser rifle.

[@jordanezell5132]

@@thebotrchap Oh, thanks! And I guess I was referring to both.

[@Oldstyle1959]

Tolles Video. Woher stammen die Geschosse für das Chassepot?

[@thebotrchap]

Ich verwende einen Bubble-Tea Strohhalm aus Papier als Hulsenkörper und dass Bodenteil dieser Geschosse passen genau hin. www.castbulletengineering.com.au/products/miscellaneous-others/product/2979-11mm-gras

[@Oldstyle1959]

@@thebotrchap Danke, das klingt ja interessant. Kannst du mir einen Link zu den Strohhalmen geben? Ich hab von B-Tea keine Ahnung und weiß nicht, ob es da Unterschiede gibt. Bezgl. der Geschosse: Ich nutze derzeit die Geschosse von "H&C Collection" - sind gut, aber leider Recht teuer.

[@thebotrchap]

@@Oldstyle1959 www.amazon.de/PAPSTAR-Sortiert-Bubble-Tea-Halme-Papiertrinkhalme-Papierstrohhalme/dp/B083V31HWC/ref=sr_1_4?crid=26U5FU2VR6337&keywords=papstar+strohhalme&qid=1636119817&qsid=262-0003778-8994919&sprefix=papstar+str%2Caps%2C138&sr=8-4&sres=B083V31HWC%2CB09CNR937Y%2CB07MLMQKFN%2CB07MPNDN9C%2CB07W7LB87J%2CB0845SV337%2CB08HMSL9Q5%2CB08HMS48NK%2CB08462QG99%2CB07MJ2DKW2%2CB08HMTD8JZ%2CB07MJ2F9GD%2CB07MLLL6R4%2CB07M744WBL%2CB09CNQZMJS%2CB09CNQSRN3%2CB07MLMFF3X%2CB07MLMCWZN%2CB07MLMNZ6R%2CB07MFG2HH4&srpt=DRINKING_STRAW

[@Oldstyle1959]

@@thebotrchap Super, nochmals Danke!

[@Revener666]

Need more than 720p. :P

[@phprofYT]

So, if the French could have ground down the Prussian advance, this would have turned into a French led blood bath. Noted.

[@laurentdevaux5617]

I some places they did. In Saint-Privat for instance, the French troops broke a charge of the Prussian Guard, who lost more than 4000 men in a few minutes. Unfortunately the French didn't exploited this success...

[@ChodaStanks]

On the Dreyse, I noticed smoked doesnt shoot out from the chamber when you fire

[@thebotrchap]

It shouldn’t do even with a standard Dreyse in good condition, don’t believe the myths. This one has a Beck converted bolt which adds a rubber gas seal. A standard Dreyse will only start to leak when it is absolutely filthy.

[@superwout]

May I enquire as to your experience - number of rounds fired - with each rifle previous to the mad minute? Is there a considerable difference that may give you more speed with the Chassepot in particular?

[@thebotrchap]

Not really no, I have spent equal time on both. The Dreyse ergonomics are simply not as good. The Dreyse was designed to give superiority over muzzleloaders, the Chassepot was designed to give superiority over the Dreyse.

[@MrCameronian]

I presume you’ve see the Cap and Ball ? Do you have a correspondence address I may have something you’ll like 😉

[@sourjoraichowdhury9350]

For the algorithm gods

[@davidbrennan660]

I miss the music and risky dialog .

[@thebotrchap]

No strippers for these rifles ;-)

[@davidbrennan660]

@@thebotrchap I should dislike the video, but it is another kind of pawn I guess.... so like I do.

[@nonamesplease6288]

Where does he get those toys?

[@thebotrchap]

Mostly from other people, rarely from toy shops.

[@noahway13]

Has anyone ever done an improvement on the acorn style projectile and made a more aerodynamic bullet for the Dreyse?

[@thebotrchap]

There are a few maxi-ball type projectiles around but I don’t know how well they work. You have to remember that the rifling and rate of twist was based on round ball and never updated.

[@stevenblack7928]

What is the alternative channel?

[@fridtjofnansen6743]

You also seem to be much more experienced with the Chassepot as you are confusing the cocking routine in use of the dreyse. All your movements are much quicker, even those that have nothing to do with handling the weapon but with taking the ammunition from the pouch. When shooting with the Dreyse, you have the cartridge pouch behind you on the right. With the Chassepot, it is on the right on your stomach. You also don't lower the Chassepot as low as with the Dreyse. A good shooter with the Dreyse will only need more time with the extra step to pre-cock the needle, if he can't even do it in one go when putting the firearm on.

[@thebotrchap]

Actually I’ve had more range time with the big D since the round ball ammo is easy to load. It’s just a clunky rifle compared to the C. The loading space between the „chamber” and breech face is also very tight on the D so it helps to see what you are doing, hence lowering the rifle. With the C you just need to throw the cartridge somewhere in the nice wide bolt channel and it will feed.

[@acsenov]

Отлично! Очень интересное практическое сравнение. И подозрительно - почему француз так быстро начал клинить? Это очень плохо.

[@Picolinni]

How many rounds would it take the Chassepot until opening the bolt became a real issue?

[@laurentdevaux5617]

20 or so

[@fridtjofnansen6743]

The geometry of the bullet is motivated by the shape of birds. Which is in fact, while not properly implemented, better than the very flat bottom of the chassepot projectile having a very disturbing effect as it is not "closing" the streamlines at the bullets back at all. Neither is the bullet you are using splitting the streamlines in front of it properly.

[@thebotrchap]

I have no idea what you’re trying to say. It’s historical fact that the C had a flatter trajectory, longer range and higher precision, even the Prussians acknowledged it.

[@fridtjofnansen6743]

@@thebotrchap "The geometry" I said. "The bullet has this funny acorn shape which is not the most ballistically efficient". The bad trajectory came from the small load they chose and from the heavy bullet (31 g). I never tried to say the Dreyse is superior. The rifle is 25 years older.

[@chomocharlie3997]

Why did both of these needle rifles still have ramrods? Did they need the ramrods for cleaning the inside of the barrels?

[@thebotrchap]

Cleaning and clearing. There is no extractor so you need something to push out a cartridge if you get a dud. This practice continued well into the 20th century on military rifles.

[@chomocharlie3997]

Thank you! However, maybe now we should call them extractor rods!

[@thebotrchap]

@@chomocharlie3997 In British doctrine they were referred to a clearing rods with the introduction of the Long Lees since they were issued with pull-throughs for cleaning. The rod was also shortened so that two or three from the squad rifles had to be screwed together to be actually used.

[@ArnoSchmidt70]

So the French lost in 1871 although they had better firearms.

[@thebotrchap]

They had better rifles but that’s not enough to win a war. The Prussians basically had better everything else including logistics and command philosophy and structure.

[@ArnoSchmidt70]

@@thebotrchap You are certainly right, but the individual armourment of the soldier in 1870 was much more important than in every later war.

[@zephyros256]

@@ArnoSchmidt70 As in most situations (I think); the best armament means little, if you cannot supply your troops adequately (logistics) and they have nothing to shoot with their nice rifles, or cannot get them to the right places at the right times.

[@Simon_Nonymous]

@@zephyros256 quite so... and just being quicker to fire in one mad minute doesn't always make a weapon all round better.

[@HaNsWiDjAjA]

The French had better rifles, but the Prussians had much better artillery. Herr Krupp really did his country a solid. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C64_(field_gun)

[@Wolf-yt5de]

Very interesting. If you can ever do it, how do these compare to other contemporaries like the Snider and possibly even the American Trapdoor Conversions. The Martini Henry and the Springfield Trapdoor still being a year or two away. Incidentally. ever fire a Peabody?

[@thebotrchap]

I have a Peabody MM in the release pipeline as well as a Snider one (not me firing). Brett of paper cartridges has also done one. For the trapdoor and martini henry I am hoping British Muzzleloader and Karl will do the honours.

[@Wolf-yt5de]

@@thebotrchap That is excellent, thanks for the reply. I own a Martini, Trapdoor, Peabody and now a Snider that I have got to figure out a way to get ammo for. I wonder why in the 1866 the French went with paper cartridges while the British and Americans were converting their muzzleloaders to metal. Great video as usual.

[@HaNsWiDjAjA]

​@@Wolf-yt5deProbably a question of cost. The French had a much bigger standing army compared to the British and certainly the post ACW Americans, and they also just got a massive conscription program in place. So they were gonna need a lot more rifles than the British and Americans. Also the paper cartridge was a much more established technology at this point in history, while the metallic cartridge was still finding its way. Note that the earliest Snider and Martini cartridges were of rolled brass, and only later did it convert to drawn brass when the former proved to be problematic.

[@NomadShadow1]

Cool

[@Pickle911]

Tbh the reloading speed only depends on how fast you can aim and fire and reloading the round not the gun itself

[@BlokeontheRange]

So if rifle A requires you to make 4 manipulations whereas rifle B only requires 2, it's nothing to do with the fact that rifle A requires double the manipulations of rifle B? Have I got that right?

[@Pickle911]

@@BlokeontheRange well you did the chassepot way more faster than the dreyse and i think the dreyse is the one your struggling

[@thebotrchap]

@@Pickle911 Bloke did not fire either rifle, just sayin’ 😉 Chassepot cycle from fired: Cock needle, open bolt, load, close bolt, fire. Dreyse cycle: Release cocking assembly, open bolt, load, close bolt, cock needle, fire. Which do you think is intrinsically faster to use?

[@jamesbromstead4949]

Superior tactics and supply lines.... not brute force and chicanery... interesting.

[@VillyVassel-eo3qo]

The Dreyse was a much older design,, it's still far superior to.muzzle loaders

[@BlokeontheRange]

Yein... There's a whole debate regarding Dreyse effectiveness. At under 200m, absolutely. But over that? The Dreyse is ineffective, whereas the last-gen rifle muskets are effective out to much longer ranges. But for a while the Dreyse is king.